View From The Rafters: Behind the Scenes with the Boston CelticsJoe Mazzulla: Giving Context To His Most Provocative Quotes
Joe Mazzulla joins us for the first episode of the View from the Rafters season to break down his unique approach to coaching in the NBA, and to life in general. That includes his use of psychology and methodology with everyone around him, including his players. Most importantly, we ask him to give context to his best quotes, and he also talks about his inspiration from Red Auerbach and Pep Guardiola, and why he thanked every member of the Boston Celtics staff via a personal letter following last season’s championship.
Welcome to season five of You from the rafters. Behind the scenes with the Boston Celtics.
Why does that matter so much?
One of the best storytellers.
Wait a minute, which one sticks out to you?
Who do we craft or we just want a championship?
Little motivation?
Yeah, that probably happens a lot. We do this every year. Right.
I was impressed by his creativity.
I never thought of it that way.
I've got a long let's done, a sheet of paper next to me.
What is there to be gleaned?
No one really cares. Noah, I thought it was cool.
Thank you for that.
Be a part of that winning atmosphere.
All right, we're in the hourback studio just downstairs across the hall from where Joe Miszula's office is here at the practice facility. Joe, first, thank you for coming on.
Yeah, of course.
Secondly, the most important thing I want to talk to you about is your T shirt game And do you have an actual T shirt guy who makes all these different shirts with messages that you wear throughout the season to the postgame press conferences to practices, because I feel like they all have a meaning.
Uh yeah, I mean I kind of used uh, you know, my hoodies or T shirts as like another small way for some you know, subliminal messain.
I think for the organization.
I think anytime you can convey a message or convey a mindset, and then I think that's another way to kind of express yourself. So I kind of enjoy uh that, you know, that small process of doing that, and I spent some spend a good amount of time on it.
As a teacher.
Guy ever said, wait a minute, can you explain what? How do I spell that? What does that mean?
Why? Which one sticks out to you?
Well, there's a lot of them. I've got a long list on a sheet of paper next to me. But we saw but first let me thank god, we saw that.
It's important. I mean I didn't make that one. I bought it, but that's important.
We saw the Bill Russell and Red Hour back.
I mean that was a trip that was Uh someone sent me that during the season and I was like, I'm not honored or I don't deserve to wear this unless but that day we did. But I mean I still didn't feel.
Yeah, it was like a cigar that you tucked away for the championship.
Yeah, you So it was kind of just paying homage I think when you take a look at the you know, I keep saying it, but like, for however long we're here, we're responsible to carry the organization forward because what those guys did.
You know, we wouldn't be here without them.
So it was a you know, just kind of paying my respects to the people that came before you.
You know, why does that matter so much? You could be coaching anywhere. You could be coaching an expansion team, a team that had just started, a team that doesn't have a history. Why is it important for twenty three year olds who are in the NBA and haven't necessarily heard.
Why is an important one they put this uniform.
On to know about Bill Russell and right hour back and the history of the organization.
I mean, I would say because of the success, but not just on the court. I would say, you know, if you're going to play here, if you're going to work here, every organization is always looking for people to be a part of something bigger than themselves. And the only way to understand that is to understand the history. And you know, because of the way the organization has been run for years and years and years. There's a reason why things are the way they are now, and it's because of you know, the past, whether it's successes, whether it's failures, but mostly it's the people that come across here. And I thought that was also important after we won, I wanted to make sure that all the people that worked here between the spaces of eighteen and twenty four get the same amount of credit that we got because they were planting a ton of seeds that were probably you know, more important at that time that just took a little bit of time to come to fruition, you know. And so when you work for this team, there's a burden, there's an expectation, there's a responsibility, but it's because of you know, how it's been run for such a long time and the success that players and coaches and people around the organization I've had on and off the court, and you know, that's what you want want to be a part of it.
And speaking on that not maybe I don't know if this is public and I'm going to make a public in a private way, but you in a way, you think every single person in the organization after the season ended, for all the hard work this But I've never experienced that from a player or a coach who's ever come through these doors in the sixteen years that I've been here. So thank you for that. But what made me boss?
You never thanked you for anything?
No, nor will it ever.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, I mean you're so and want to be thanked for anything. You should just do it because you're supposed to do it.
Yeah, you know.
But I thought it was important because, uh, when you have everybody on the on the in the right seat on the bus heading in the right direction, great things can happen. And I also see it's easy for parts of the organization to feel less than or not as valued as others. And at the end of the day, if everybody's not trying to be the head coach in their role, we can't achieve like, you know, high high level of a of a successful organization and not counting wins. And so it was just important that everybody knew, uh, you know, everything they do is the most important thing for the team, for the organization. And the second piece of that is there's so many interactions that because of the like these organizations are getting so much bigger. Uh, there's so many interactions that the players have before they even get to the court. You know, and if you don't value those interactions, like I was saying, like the like Nate Eckley is the first person he sees everyone come in the door, and so the way he carries himself going, yeah, like, the way he carries.
Himself is super important. Uh.
The kitchen staff or usually see the guys first because they go right there before. And so the way they cook, how they greet the like, that's going to make an impact on how the guys perform. And then like you know, if you walk through a player's perspective of our building, they usually see Nate first, and then they see the kitchen staff, and then they see they may see like you know, some of the front office sitting in that little pool area, and then they see the uh, the sports science and like we're the last people that they see, and so every interaction that has had is super important to them.
Getting on the floor, Uh, you know.
Ready to feel valued, but also ready to like, you know, we've got to be at our best.
This idea of what you just said, I guarantee you there are people that heard it that never looked at it that way, that never looked at going to work that way. It's not unusual.
I would imagine for people to hear you say things they have never heard before, that probably happens a lot.
Yeah, I would agree with that.
I would agree with that.
It's just a different perspective.
But so where did it come from? Why do you know that? Where did you learn that? All the different things that you say that make people go home? I never thought of it that way. They must have come into your brain somehow, someway.
I mean, I think, I mean there's again, I don't think any what anyone's doing is new. I just think it's fresh in people's minds. There's people that have come before you that do it and then they go away, and then a group of people do it and then they go away, and so like it's no different than what people are doing or saying or have been going on for years.
It's just this is in the space now. So you just try to.
Learn from the you know, the past as much as you can, and how can you replicate the past? Learn from the successes and failures.
You know.
When I got the opportunity to come here, I wanted to I wanted to tie the entire organization together, Like, how can we be a world class organization, not just a basketball team, and I enjoy that challenge more than I do the basketball is like the holistic leadership approach towards it's just the people. But I tell you what really hit me is when I first met Pep, I was studying, you know, we're having our conversations, and when I went over there, I not interviewed, but like any person I asked, I was like, tell me one thing good and one thing bad about him, like anyone the equipment manager, the person at the front, Like I was just asking random people, and they told me a story about they were they were going for their like I can't remember what championship they were going for, but he had a meeting with the entire organization and he essentially said, like I'm the last person the players see.
They see all of you, and so if you don't value your job or value your.
You know, interaction with the player, then it's going to cost us a championship because they may feel tired and if you don't uplift them, then they're not going to be able to play at their best. And he, like I learned from him, is like how to be this three sixty leader of like the entire team, Like he still brings his own loop down to the equipment manager when he's done with like a workout, and so just like you just learn from different people, and like, you know, he has had a major impact on me, even more than the soccer stuff, is like the humility that he brings to success.
You know, over and over again, this is.
A new generational idea of crossing over sports. You're talking about Pep Guardiola. You've been with Alex Core, You've been with Jerrod Mayo, You've been everywhere, and that is a perfect example of something what is there to be gleaned from the way that other sports and it could be outside of sports, be how other organizations. It seems like there's an endless supply of ideas to draw from and that well it seems like, wow, Joe Mazuo is going here and he's going there. It almost seems like there aren't enough days to do as much as you would want to do.
Oh man, I think if you look at the everybody tries to look at us as a basketball team, and I look at that like tenth on the list, Like, to me, it's about people first, right, Like the one common denominator of successful organizations, regardless of its arena, are the people that are involved and how do you grow? How do you get those people to become better? We had an interesting one the other day. We had Disney here and it was really cool going through this facility as if it was a theme park because they're like their psychological messaging within a theme park is like, second.
That's what my brother does for a living, even down.
To like the smells of the certain area in the park can get you down there. So we had a fun time going through and comparing it to like theme park and like, how can we make this facility? Because that's really what it comes down to, like can you can you cultivate uh, you know, the environment around you to breed greatness and success?
And like can you do that?
Obviously you have to do that with the people, but you could do it psychologically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, physically, Like there's just a bunch of avenues to go in. So if you keep the common denominator as people and figure out how to grow, get better, connect the other stuff is kind of really easy. And like I said this, we're the best people here, Like we have the best players talent wise, but also character wise, they you know, you couldn't have asked for a better opportunity as a coaching staff. And then we have just the best people in the organization that take pride in their job. And that goes back to our first question of like we take pride in it because of the people that came before us.
So are you going to turn this place into a theme park?
I mean you'd be.
Trust me.
I want to say, there's a lot of limitations because we're in the middle of a city on the floor, But if I had my chance, this place would look.
That I love it. I would change it every other day.
Listen, you just talked about the people that came before you, and I know you've got a connection, Like literally you've touched him. Read hourback Sean has I. I did not have that ability. He passed away before I started here. But take us through that relationship of you meeting him back in the day you went to a few of his camps.
Yeah, and then.
You've literally tried to pull some of the way he coached and his philosophy's organizationally not only just with the team, but organizationally, and pull them into what you do on a daily basis.
Yeah, I mean, I mean at the time, like I probably shook his hand once, like yeah, once summer.
That's once more than a lot of people did.
But but he would always come to the camps and he would I think it was Brandeis University. If you walk in and you go up the steps, there's three courts on the top floor, and he would sit on court one underneath the basket and he would watch all the games in the afternoon. And uh, you know, he spoke to the people from time to time.
But if you ever.
Listen to him, you know, it just comes down to how do you manage talent, how do you manage success? How do you build a competitive process oriented mindset towards greatness? Right, And I think that's kind of what we're all after, you know, and him and the players, and you know, even in the eighties, like every like I said, every team has embodied Celtic basketball, you know. And that was another huge thing, was connecting. I don't want to say reconnecting, because I don't ever think there was a disconnect, but just like doubling down on the identity to the city. I think mentioned that in one of his interviews about like we kind of play like the city, Like that's the goal. Like you got to be a can we swear on this we're on YouTube. You's got to be a motherfucker. Like you just got like that's just the easiest way. In fact, j S wore last year.
So you're good.
Yeah, all right, good, So like you just got to like we embody what the city represents of togetherness chip on your shoulder. It's just Celtic basketball. It's just bigger than than the sport itself. It's a you know, it's a mindset towards a community.
You wanted to do that, Like going into last season, you made it very clear to the staff, to the team why like why was that so important and how did it help?
Because I think that's that's the recipe for success.
Is I kind of learned it. I learned it studying the championship teams here over the years, but I felt it the year my college team went to the Final four, Like we didn't become a great team until we started playing something bigger than ourselves and until we built a connection to the state of West Virginia and kind of took on that personality Like when we when we started to embody that we took it to a different level and kind of I kind of saw it on a smaller scale. And here I just think the fans deserve that. They're they're smart, they've seen high level basketball for a long long time, so they know what good basketball looks like.
So you're not going to trick them.
And as you said, they'll let you know when they don't.
And they should. I mean that they should.
They they're They're one of the higher IQ audiences you know that I've experienced, and so that and you know, being from here, I know how to carry that chip on your shoulder to have that that mentality, And so I thought it was like that, this is who we have to be, like, we got to embody this.
We talked a lot last year about this, you studying teams that have won championships.
And studying teams that have lost. Right for this this point.
Because and you you said over and over again, I don't remember anymore. We talked so much on and off the R I forget which ends up on it, which ends up off about the margin being so raised or crazy thin between winning and not winning.
Now that you were on the other side of winning, is that exactly how you feel.
I believe it more.
Yeah, believe it more.
And you hate to say, like, you know, so much has to go your way to win that you're out of that's out of your control. You have to do so many things that are within your control, but there's so many other things that happen in a game, in a series, uh, in a playoff that is out of your control.
Uh.
And so yeah, like I even more.
People an example maybe the way Indiana managed some of those end of games.
I mean exactly, like you know, in game one, if they call a time out to advance it, we don't knock the ball out of bounds underneath our basket with a chance to go. And then now you're you're you're down three, you have to file, and now you're down either four or five. And it's a completely different situation to where you're downh one uh in the Eastern Conference Finals instead of being up oh one. You know, like if Aaron Nesmith three goes in at the end of game three, because they run a tremendous play and we just not that we didn't try to guard, it's just that we hadn't seen that. If that goes in, now it's two to one and you have to beat them on their home court to tie the shit, Like there's just it's one shot.
And I saw that again.
And uh and and Man City's run at the fourth Championship last year, the game, the second to last game, Tottenham's on a breakaway and if they get that, they don't win the championship and it just nicked the goalkeeper. And it was like that was the difference between winning and losing, and so the and and that was another thing I wanted to make sure is like, you know, people start to treat you differently when you win, and it doesn't make you any better or worse when you win. Everyone's about the same, you know. It's just when you're you're around an environment where the fruits of the labor have kind of sprouted. And but like at the end of the day, a person that won and hasn't won shouldn't be treated any differently because they're all, you know, the same type of coaches.
Like they're all great coaches, you know, because.
They're Anie Smith shot went in or didn't go in. Yeah, and every game you can do that almost every night. Mark, I don't know if you were there, I was at Fenway the night Red Sox with that. Okay, in that game, which.
Was in late June. This is just a play by playbrain, but I remember the Red Sox had.
You remember the time and the day.
That's the sickness. I can't sing.
It was the bottom of the eighth.
It was the bottom of the eighth, the first of all.
Derek White, Derek's on the jumbo tromp with the trophy, and that's when the comeback started.
That's what started.
But we watched that.
Well, this is what I don't. Don't be a spoiler.
You can swear all you want, but you can't spoil the stories, which is that that game turned on a pop fly, that the Blue Jays dropped, that they it started a Red Sox rally.
Woage is gone. But my sources.
Say that you clipped that game and in part of the what people fire under the Joe Missoula insanity, you clipped that game.
To the right after the game.
So I'm sitting watched this that really happened. Yeah, you clipped it right after the game, right after the game. It's like we're showing that on day one, because that is the that's the difference between winning and losing is everyone gets blinded by, you know, all these tactics and all these adjustments and all this other bull craft that may or may not work. An adjustment is just a word if the adjustment is only good if it works. Like if it doesn't work, then there wasn't adjustment.
You know, you just can't coach. But like, you lose a game.
I feel like I've heard that before.
You lose a game on a routine fly ball, which is the most simplest of a fundamental of communication, which they probably don't drop those in a training in a what do they call that spring training drill? And it's like, can you execute the simplest of details and fundamentals and are much higher drest. And so I'm sitting there, me and Matt Reynolds are just watching it.
This is it right here? Like this is it? Like this is how you lose.
And it's easy to focus on winning, but I think you have to focus more on how not.
To lose than you do on how to win.
So day one, because how not to lose is more controllable than how to win, in my opinion.
So just to recap day one, when this team came together, that's what you showed them. First baseball, first two clips baseball, Well.
Not just baseball, I thok.
The Olympics presented a lot of cool moments to see why people win, why people lose, and the difference exactly like they probably I don't know how much they get to practice, but you probably don't drop it in practice. You know, you may not mess up the timing, but like, you only get one shot at it right, And so if you get blinded by the details for whatever reason, which happens to us we talk about all the time, doesn't mean we do it, you know. I just think when you're trying to win championships, you can't focus on winning championships. You have to focus on what goes into the process of winning. But also how can you prevent losing by doing the things that are simplest to do under high dress?
So that's I want to drill down on that. Because the team won a championship right in June, and everyone was living in that moment for sure, even you, we saw you at the parade. Everyone was loving it. But it felt like a couple of days later, like within forty eight hours, the page was turned. Yeah, the page was turned, and you were preparing for this season, and then now you have to get everyone else's minds to buy into that of forget what happened. We're only looking at what looking at moving forward. So what's your process?
You don't forget, just don't stay attached because you don't want to forget because there's a lot of things that we did well that we have to replicate. We have to replicate the hunger and the desire to win, which I think is a choice. So you don't want to forget it, you just can't stay attached to it. And I think that's the difference of a success or a failure. If you stay to attached, you know, to a win or a loss or a result in general, then it blinds the future. And so don't forget it, but don't stay attached to it, you know.
So how to how have you, like, what's your process been of getting everyone to buy into that and understand it and kind of wrap their arms around that during camping before the season, we're recording this before the season starts, just.
So for the coaches it was like, we're not wearing any gear from last year, Like it's just it's the simplest.
Just don't want to see it.
Burn it, yeah, like keep it at home, just don't bring it into the facility Like that doesn't help. That's a psychologically messaging that can keep you attached to the past, Like if you put on that shirt from last year, you're automatically attached to pass for the rest of the day. Like psychologically, there's nothing you can do to change it. That that's so harmful.
I couldn't tell the players to do it, but I definitely told the staff. You probably could have, but what they I wouldn't. I mean, that wouldn't go well for me.
And then other than that, you just chip away at it, you know, just continue to again focus on the details under high high duress and replicate an environment where that's the most important thing.
You know, humility, right, and how do you in talking about people and characters in organization? Humility doesn't seem like something you can teach, but it seems like somebody you could learn.
I mean, you're never I mean yeah, I mean it's and it's something that you're striving for that you're never going to get because I think we're just you know, human, we're prideful by nature, right, So I think that's just kind.
Of how we are.
So it's something that I think you'll never attain, but you have to. It's the pursuit of humility that you're going after. I think the moment you, you know, say you know, I'm humble, you're kind of like you're no longer anymore, right, So I think it's like having an understanding of speaking, knowing that yeah, like you know, I say this with all humility.
Yeah, So you know.
I think it's the pursuit that you're trying to go after, knowing that you have a you know, there's an enterprise there that you have to battle every day, and you're just trying to go after humility.
Real quick before we wrap, And I've got a little game that we're going to play before we let you go. But one last question. I asked you a few weeks ago about a new season being a new entity and like how how you wrap your mind around that, And basically you said, circumstances change, right, Like, it's the same team for the most part that's coming back here with the Celtics, but the circumstances that surround the team are totally different from last year. So can you explain that a little bit to the fan base of like how you see that.
I mean, they'll change tactically, you know. Uh So you envisioned the league taking on different trends.
Tactically, so you have to adjust to that.
There's always two or three trends that like developed throughout the course of the league that you try to stay a half a step ahead. But how quickly can you get up to that trend, whether it's on offensive defense and then just like the ball bouncing your way. I mean, there's a difference between starting out five and oh and starting out two and two.
You know, it's just it's a difference.
Like, uh So, as the season goes, it'll it'll determine how we have to respond to our environment. The key is staying open minded to knowing that our environment is ever changing and you know, we have to change.
We have to change with it.
And teams have changed, like.
Literally personnel has changed. So like it's going to be a different approach, you know.
All right, We're gonna play a quick one here, and this is called no context quotes. So I'm gonna read off some of your quotes and you just give us some of the context around them.
This should be funny.
We'll start off with the easy one. Nobody cares, no one, right, I mean, isn't that perfect?
Is what you want this year to be?
And nobody?
So my favorite book in the Bible is Ecclesiastes, right, and it talks a lot about duality, right, Like, it talks a lot about like what you do is the most important thing and it doesn't matter at all. That to me is what what we do, like what we wake up every day. We have to do it because it's the most important thing. But no one really cares like it's it Like there's our context. Like you ever go to a funeral, people can't stop telling to some people can't stop.
Telling jokes, you know what I mean, like like you're there, the guy's dead, but like you know, like a week later, like you.
Just can't do anything about it, you say, nobody cares, Like like I'll remember that. That's why I look at in that casket. All right, it's short eulogy when they it one day, all right, next one. I'm always up to get knocked out. Yeah, support, what's the context?
I think in order to go after success, you have to understand the other side of failure, all.
Right, love it.
I'm a big spike guy.
Oh, that's a huge weakness of mine. Why, I just I don't know. I gotta work on that. That's how I know I'm not humble.
Because some might say it's a strength.
All right.
Could I think you said this one to us on media Day? Actually, I think sometimes not having a message is a message.
Yeah, just show that you you don't have a predetermined perspective on how you're going to go about a situation.
I happened to be around when you said this one as well. This is about running a marathon, I would just go until I die. Yeah, that's important, just go die me.
It's it's the idea of like it's easy to put limitations on yourself. I think we spend more time putting limitations on ourselves physiologically, psychologically than they're actually.
There, particularly when you were the one who crossed the finished line first.
Yeah, all right, a couple more. We're all villains in someone's eyes. Where did that one come from?
That one is very important because, especially in social media area, we have a tendency to say someone is good or bad, and we're all really about the same. Like if you I learned this the other I learned this About a month ago, I was driving to school. I was driving to work, taking from taking my kids to school, and there was two crosswalks. I wasn't paying attention driving, so I missed the first crosswalk for pretexting. Probably I missed the first crosswalk. The guy on the side of the crosswalk kind of like gave me a dirty look, like you know, what the hell You're not gonna stop. So I learned my lesson. Two lights later, I stopped at the crosswalk and someone else didn't, and that person deemed me a good person and they were like, oh see, like gave me.
A look of it was a matter of like two minutes.
Yeah, like, oh you.
Stopped, and like you're a better person than that guy that didn't stop. And I was sitting there and I was like, two minutes ago, that guy wanted to kill me. I could have like hurt someone physically. And now I'm getting deemed so like we're all really about the same. We just like we're all just you know, I think some people.
This is the difference between Joe Missoula and someone like me, where like you're always learning lessons. I feel like you're gonna leave hearing some crossway better. I don't know how we're gonna make you better, but something tells me you're gonna leave here.
But I was a villain in that guy's eyes. Yeah, and I was like the greatest person in the world.
Ye.
No acting coaches teach actors about playing quote unquote bad guys in movies.
They always remember this, The villain is the hero of his own story.
Yes, all right, last one before we let you go. There's no fouls in a war. You either win or you die.
Yeah, that's pretty simple.
Where did it come from?
Though?
I was just that was a playoff, So why did you deliver that to your basketball team who was not in a literal war, but in a physical war. I guess you could say it's a.
Good thing they want.
Yeah, Jalen gave that one.
Then, Yeah, the Celtics would be in trouble if they didn't.
I think we were at halftime and like we were complaining about a call, and I was just like I just kind of lost it for a second. I was just like, dude, you can't get follled, Like we just can't get followed right now. We just don't have time to get folbed. Just like just can't do it all right.
Now we've got some context around no context quotes from Joe Miszula. We appreciate the time, thank you for coming on man, good luck this season. As we said, we're recording this a little bit before the opening night, So enjoy the rings, enjoy the banners going up. I know you're not going to enjoy it, but congratulations and I will that that will probably will.
That's what it will hit me, okay, you know because you walking down arena every game day and you see all those things staring at you like, so I think that'll hit different than than most things.
At least you guys practiced already here right. Yeah, it's important, that's all psychological. I can't wait to come back here and see in park Field. So thank you again, sing good luck, thanks guy all
Ed mm hmmm mm hmm
