View From The Rafters: Behind the Scenes with the Boston CelticsChris Forsberg: Could Celtics Set Record with Five All-Stars?
NBC Sports Boston’s Chris Forsberg joins Marc and Abby for a special All-Star-themed episode after the Boston Celtics launched a campaign to get all five of their starters to the 2024 NBA All-Star game in Indianapolis. The crew discusses the historical context of teams getting four or five players into the game, and dives deep into the cases Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Kristaps Porzingis, Derrick White and Jrue Holiday have made to be voted onto the team this season. The group also discusses how coaches tend to vote on reserves, and how Adam Silver tends to select injury replacements, while also suggesting a couple new wrinkles that the league could consider when it comes to All-Star rosters.
3:30 – Forsberg gives the approach he’d take to voting if he were an NBA coach
9:45 – Marc reveals how he thinks the Celtics will get a minimum of three players into the game
13:15 – Forsberg suggests expanding the All-Star rosters to 15 players instead of 12
19:15 – Abby and Forsberg make a case for Derrick White to be an All-Star
24:30 – The group discusses why Porzingis deserves to make the team
28:45 – The discussion shifts to Holiday’s case to become a three-time All-Star
33:15 – Forsberg suggests that the NBA dedicate an All-Star spot to elite role players
36:30 – How Adam Silver has chosen injury replacements
38:30 – Marc, Abby and Forsberg make their All-Star predictions for the Celtics
WATCH on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcJngzG91G0
Welcome everyone. This is You from the Rafts.
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Let's go season four. Do you remember discussions let's talk a little basketball here? Yeah, a lot to do here? Who told you get you still have this mindset? I like, are you revving that in?
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That's how you're going to be able to be successful. You know, there's no culture like the Boston Celtics culture. What's up everyone? This is Mark Demiko.
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All Right, the Boston Celtics have been going for the juggular this season.
They sit atop the NBA.
They have been the entire season, and I just want to point out that it's not just the players who have been going for the jugular.
The marketing team has as well.
It's All Star voting season and the marketing team for the Celtics is pushing all five starters to be in the NBA All Star Game. So we had to bring in NBC Sports Boston's Chris Forsburg to discuss this.
He's here with me at every.
Chin, and is it okay if I don't have the same amount of green kool aid in me as the market?
No, you look around, Okay, it's all green. It's all green. No, we can be really why we're here for.
That's why we invited you thought you could jump on board.
But Chris, five players from a single team have never made the All Star Team.
And I feel like we can confidently say that is a thing that is going to persist long into the future.
Yes, like unlikely that all five guys get in, but for four players, yep, is this possible?
To what twenty seventeen eighteen Warriors got it two years in a round? Right, So you're you're essentially saying that if you're a team that wins sixty nine to seventy two games, well you're saying there's a.
Yeah, they're on track for sixties right now.
But I will say twenty fifteen was another instance with the Hawks. You got guys like Jeff Tgue and Kyle Korver, who certainly don't have the.
Look at the Eastern Conference at that point, it was it was, it was a different world at that point. I think the hardest part is it's not so much that the Celtics players, the Celtics starting five as a whole, do not deserve full consideration for all five or four, howard number you want to go. It's that the East is loaded with individual talent and so uh, you know, like in a in a in a weird year, I could see definitely making a pitch for four guys. But I think what you're actually gonna run into is the opposite problem where it's gonna be hard to get even three because you're it's not there's no eed case for the three. There's not like it's definitely this guy, this guy, and this guy. And I think when coaches vote, you run into an issue where they split the vote. And Trey Young, even though he's on a team that's eleventh in the Eastern Conference, is going to get more consideration, which is maybe not there, but that's the way we do it.
And so like I can't and I do.
Think it will have to be a lot of the coaches voting the players in. Jason Tatum probably the only guy who's gonna get in as a starter because of fan voting. But Chris Forsburg, I think that's you're the perfect test case for this.
Oh, we have brought you in to make the case for all five.
Okay, yes, and then after I you can do.
This yeah right if.
Yeah, we can convince every reserve coach across the Eastern Conference.
So I think let me just preface this all by saying, like, I think that is the roadmap. Is like Brad has to get on the phone with all of his old friends and be like, hey, like when you vote, if you could vote for X, Y Z and in that order, you know, like depending on how many Celtics you get on your ballot, then that is your best chance to get more than two players. If Brad Is and Joe are just like, hey, vote for whoever you want, you run the risk of splitting it, even though everyone is deserving in their own way.
Like, Okay, if I am, what's the priority? So you're asking me what I would do?
Yes, all right, So first off, we take Jason Tatum off the board, because Jason Tatum is probably gonna make it as a fan voted daughter.
Definitely going to make it.
As a start, you are much more.
We are filming this before the first set of returns.
Yes, okay, And that's another thing, like what's gonna happen now is like before this goes up, they're gonna have like monster nights. I'm gonna seem supid saying like weird things, but yeah, Tatum makes it as a fan voted s daughter. If I am a coach in the Eastern Conference, I come. What I would typically revert back to is who am I game planning for the most?
Right?
Like who am I sitting when I when I start game planning for a game, Well, who is the first.
Guy that I say I need to focus on?
And so Jayn I interjector real quick for because when.
I almost it's our podcast.
Yes, but with a Celtics team that has so much depth, there's no way you're going to game plan for someone like.
Derek White or for Drew Holliday, Right, So that's what because in the mind of a reserve of a coach voting for reserve, you're thinking, I spend so much more time worrying about Trey and Ty Halliburton and like all these guys and like you're conditioned to think that they're more of a star because of that, And I think that's going to conspire against the Celtics, even if in a vacuum, you should step back and say, like, damn, those guys are really good.
Derek White doesn't put up the same amount of points.
I don't focus as much on him, but he impacts the game so much more than those guys. And so it's we just got to teach coaches to think a different way than they normally have. We have to think, we have to teach fans how to think a different way. And I don't know if you can do that, And in.
The next three weeks, if anyone can do it, Brad Stevens.
Well, And that's why he's the most convincing person, right, Like I we know that Joe, like I don't. I don't know if if Joe calls uh Billy Donovan after the dust up in Chicago with Chicago.
Then he's gonna be an agreement in the end.
But if he's gonna if it's like there's a Trey Young or Derek White, I'm guessing Billy Donovan could be a little if he wants to be petty in that situation, feel free.
And so, but it's gets on the phone.
Maybe ifv Al Horford gets on the phone and says, Billy, my man, I'm playing with you.
Yeah, like you were talking about recruiting calls.
I really feel like that's what you need to do, is that you need to have some sort of secret weapon here to get coaches to think. And I think, look, no one knows more than the people here like who is valuable on a night tonight basis, and they need to stress that to the people that are voting. And so it would be super cool if I could sit here and tell you, like I'm trying to go through the Eastern Conference coaches, like does Jamal Mosley have enough time to sit there and go Derek White net rating, you know, like really good?
So he may because of the time that he faced against Celtics.
Piston's coach has a lot of time. Monti Williams has enough time to go through and like check out the net ratings. But in general, I think teams are just gonna un invariably go back a little bit to reputation. I think a lot of coaches naturally try to spread the wealth a little bit, and you do definitely have to reward the teams that are in the best position. So if the Celtics stay is the best record in the NBA, I think that's another roadmap to to three guys. But I just think it's difficult. But that's why we have to educate the people.
We are.
All the conference coaches sit back to watch our podcast and I'm not long.
Yes you are, you are in now in yuh.
They need to uh to take our advice to heart.
So I do want to push back on just one thing as far as phone calls go. Maybe Al Horford making phone calls.
I think you know de White, everybody else texting just you.
Know, out with his plug in their phone headphones.
Oh yes, always on the phone walking into the arena, so you know he's got time.
To make puns.
Who do you think he's talking to.
I've run this through.
I spend like there, I've probably spent like an inordinate amount of time in my life walking around going I spend maybe like seven minutes a year on the phone.
Now that's true.
Actually is in your face though, I think is trying to avoid any eye contact with those who he walks.
Know, man, come walk around town with me. Man, just but like like someone calls, I get angry. I'm like, man, like I don't get time for a phone call right now, like my friends.
No better voicemails, literally like, don't expect him, don't expect me to listen to this, and don't expect a return call. Text me if you need anything.
You're lucky that I have a personalized reading on my voicemail. I actually at one point I changed it. I was like, look, if you want to contact email me or text me, because I am not returning to this call. Uh So I agree, like Al's got to be the one because you know, this modern generation is not going to be on the phone.
We're going down a rabbit hill or a rabbit hole here. But no, Abby, I think that you can confirm this too. Horford is on his phone, like on the bus after games, He's on the phone immediately.
I don't know who he's talking to.
Fam.
I mean those are fam.
This is a few from the Rafters episode that I need in my life that if I don't steal this topic.
Already answer.
I'm talking.
Do you think sometimes he's just he's just faking talking to people.
I think maybe walking past people. I would. I would. I'm not going to put it past me.
I think Al has a lot of people at his life. He's got people to talk to.
All right, back on the rails, yep, let's let's at least give everyone the information about how these teams come together. So twelve twelve players from each team wind up making the All Star team. Obviously, five from each conference are voted on by the fans and the media, and that combination the reserves. The remaining seven are chosen by the assistant coaches.
And there are some injury correct, so you get into that.
We will get into that.
So the way that the reserves are voted on by the coaches is they vote for two guards, three front court players, and then two wild cards. So hypothetically speaking, they certainly could mix in two or three Celtics on their ballots and still have enough available for the rest of the.
Of the guys.
I like what you're saying here, Mark, I.
Will say that I totally disagree with you on this and and this is not green kool aid, like, I truthfully think the Celtic school judge that minimum three players atum minimum unless they go on a terrible plus KP or Derek White, but I think that KP is in the lead right now. KP is he is an All Star in his career, so the name Cachet is already there around the league. He's coming off the best season of his career and having an even better season of his career. His career high field goal percentage, two point percentage. He leads the NBA in points per posted up, like you can go all the way down the list, and personally, I think that the Celtics have been unlocked by him coming to this team, like they they have reached another level, particularly in the fourth quarter, which we recently saw in that Pistons game. We're all, we're recording this today after that Pistons game, but he was the guy who carried them in the fourth quarter, him and Derk White obviously, but his scoring in the paint, it just unlocks a different level of this team. And so I think that it's three minimum and four maximum. I don't think they're going to get five. I think they can push for it, but it's either going to be White or Holiday is that fourth that come in.
But I personally think it's three minimum.
Go ahead.
I think that you're right.
I agree, And then the argument, I think, as you said, Christop's impact on this team is undeniable, and we saw it when he went down with the injury, just how much they missed him, when they missed that added element.
That he has.
But I agree, as the captain of the Derek White All Star Team, I think that it's also undeniable when those coaches are looking at their scouting film that Derek White doesn't show up every single time over and over again, and as you watch that film, you're like, oh, where is Like we talk about it all the time with those blocks and just always making the right play.
Like where is where did he come from?
Who is this guy? And he's freaking Derek White. So yes, I think that I think four is. I think it's when.
You lay it out like that, possible three.
So my only hesitation here is that the numbers for both of the J's are not what they were a season ago, and those numbers put vaulted them into a different category.
And so if you are going to think.
About the Celtics without actually looking at the net rating and the defensive rating and everything that they're bringing, you think, oh, well, if they need a second Celtic, it's got to be Jalen Brown.
And isn't it weird, Like Jalen is playing the best basketball of his career. Yeah, but his numbers right, and we're gonna and he'll get less consideration because the numbers aren't as crazy as they usually are. Tatum is playing something's less than his best basketball, but he will be a fan voted to start.
Like that, just as his impact on the game, you could argue.
You would say, like he's learned in so many different ways, from the screening to the rebounding to the playmaking, Like he's definitely impacting it more.
But this is we fixate so much on.
Scoring that it overrides the conversation and for like what is an All Star? And like what matters most? And I just think it takes education. I do think coaches are better attuned to like what matters.
Which is why they're the ones making the decision, right.
But also we've heard like the horror stories of the of the coach who gives it to his assistant and says, I just feeled this out, And like, you know, how much is that person putting in the necessary effort and are they voting for friends and I don't know, so, Like I don't love the process by which we select All Stars anymore.
I also don't love.
Like that there's only twelve spots, and I know I like that. I think, yeah, right, Like, we're just at an age now where there's so many stars in the league. It would be much better if we just went to fifteen. Am I gonna be upset that some dude doesn't play three extra minutes a game because like they needed to get Derek White on his first All Star appearents more time out there.
Not to mention, if you want to make the game more competitive and this is obviously still a showcase and guys are trying to protect their bodies for the rest of the season. If the more bodies that you are able to throw out there, I think the more that affords for competition, particularly down the stretch and at the end of game.
I can say this, Adam Silver has been on this podcast, so let's hope that he's listening to it and he considers these changes. I don't know if they can go from twelve to fifteen, but at.
Least what happened was Kemba Walker when they ran him out there for thirty plus minutes in the All Star Game.
Thanks Nick Nurse.
Never the same.
I will say this, so your road map for me, the road map at three All Stars is the Celtics make a hard pitch for like who the second guy is. There's no splitting of the vote, that guy gets in, and then maybe there's some sort of injury and the commissioner rewards the team that is the top the Eastern Conference a player that maybe floats a little bit below the radar.
I think.
I think if like Derek White is getting in, it's probably Adam Silver saying he deserves to be.
I am shocked that you and I are so different in our opinions on this because I think Jalen and Jason are shoeings. Like I think Jason there's absolutely zero percent chance he doesn't get voted in as a starter.
I mean, you just opened the wormhole there, like now, like what happened? What was it the Wigans year where the like the band the a Korean pop band, like all of a sudden, Yeah.
It's only a percentage of it now right, it can be rectified by the media and.
Never put faith in the media.
Well, but yeah, outside media, outside media where I mean some of us scale.
Doesn't believe he's a part of the but we won't go down that role.
But yeah, I think Jason Tatum there's zero percent chance he doesn't get voted in as a starter. And really, in my eyes, there's probably only four players in the Eastern Conference who are shoeings to be voted in as a starter, and I think it's him, Embiid, Yannis, and Lillard. I think those are the four that are automatically, like we know they're going to be voted in the starters simply because of their name brands around the country, around the world, and within the media base. So there's one other spot that's going to go to a starter that we don't necessarily know of. I personally think it's probably going to be Halliburton who gets that.
Role, although Indies faded so like I'm met wonder if some of that, like fan voting cools on him, and but it's also in Indy and like it makes a good storyline.
So Halliburton's getting.
In, Yeah, it would be a cooler story if he gets.
In, railing it back in.
I think that Tatum is an automatic and I think that Jalen is going to be an automatic simply because he's I think we all know that he's playing the best basketball, two way basketball of his career, and I think all of the other teams know that, Like the Celtics are not where they are without Jalen Brown being that guy.
Well, I think that's part of the overarching argument for this team is you talk about two way players and the fact that the Celtics are the only team in the NBA in both top ten and offensive and defensive rating, and and then you look at the net rating and the fact just how good this team isn't how willing everyone has been to sacrifice. And Joe Missoula talks about it all the time that defining success looks different for this group, but that is absolutely true. We're seeing it in the results, and these guys are okay with that. These every single player to a man, is happy with that. No one is gunning for shots, no one is looking to play iso ball just to make themselves look better, and that.
Is clear in the mindset. And I just like you said, Chris, as far as.
Educating people, I just feel like that should be rewarded because it is not something that is prevalent throughout the league.
So maybe, and so this would be my pitch because as we get into like why every guy should potentially be there, like true Holiday's stat line on the in just like from the ten thousand foot view, is not going to be enough for someone to say he deserves to be a starter. And then you sit there and watch game tape and you watch how he pounds Kate Cunningham at the start of the second half and totally changes the mention of that game. How he's willing to guard players that are seven inches taller than him and can hold up.
And I was on the floor and overtime to save a ball game winning play.
So you also know that he can get in his bag. He put up fifty plus points against Indy a season ago. He doesn't need to do that on this team. And he is completely okay with not having to do that.
Everyone on this team has hurt their own All Star chance by racing the desire to win a championship.
And like that, I think it's at the other side, and maybe this is just you being more realistic in me being more you know, I think that, I mean, this is the same thing that we saw with the Celtics back when KG came to town, right, Like everyone had to sacrifice none of those guys and it was a different game then, But none of those guys averaged twenty points per game. But they were beating the hell out of every team that they played against, and you knew that at least three of them had to get into the game.
Right.
So I feel like, again, if the Celtics and he found this stump, Yeah, if the Celtics keep on this trajectory throughout January, I just don't see how the coaches don't vote in at least one other guy.
I hope you're right, don't miss construe.
I'm being realistic in the sense that I think voting is flawed and it's going to be difficult based on the criteria of what the NBA has made this thing. And but I do agree with you that hopefully the coaches say us from from the rest of the process and say these are the guys that deserve to be there. We know we watch ball every night and reward the guys that deserve to be there, because Derek White and Kristaps Porzingis deserve to be there. I just don't know if if We're going to find a way to keep them in that car with the in five place.
But forst you say how numbers are such a big piece of this, and you're absolutely right. But I think in the NBA, and it's one of the things that I love most about this league, is that narrative is really and so the Celtics narrative is phenomenal, as we just laid out, but I also think it's really important and why we all continue to sing the praises of Derek White, who, as we know the most, as Isaiah Thomas dubbed him on Twitter, the most underrated player in the NBA still, so until he gets that all start on, I think we can keep saying that and.
Redick that helps to when once it.
Goes national, Yes, it becomes part of the national consciousness and part of what people are talking about every day on podcasts, on the national shows. I think that helps so much. And the fact that this Derek White campaign is off to such.
A sensational start.
It might be Tom.
He's been playing at this level for the whole.
Season, but he's going to continue to watch us exactly, but I think we need to save the Derek whit as an All Star to we're a little bit closer to the coaches voting, just so it's it's locked in a little bit and it's not like just noise at that point, but like, hey, at least he's the fact that he's even in the conversation is awesome and I do wish I wish, you know, again, like in a vacuum, I almost wish the Celtics could tell everybody make the push for him because it means so much more to him and I don't know if he's going to have like he might play to this level, but we'll just expect it. So now, like in this year where it's so clear how good he is and the numbers are so off the charts, they I just wish that that that they could take the campaign and really really stress it.
Do you think it's more important to Derek than well.
Personally, I don't think it's more important. I just think these arepportunities where you're like, he is definitively the same number. If he comes up next year he leads in net rating, We're like, oh, that's what he does every year, right, Like it just it becomes compless. The same reason that doesn't win right, So it's just the voting gets a little bit more difficult, Like this is the one year where you think, is there a chance he can kind of and I don't want to say sneak his way on there, but based on the way we vote, could he kind of have an easier path than in future?
The story makes sense?
Can we zoom out real quick and just think about can you imagine if he goes from not being on the ESPN Top one hundred players to then making All Star within within like three months?
In the conference, I was looking at like, uh, most improved lists, and no one has him on the most improved.
It's because it's because he's been so.
Good, So how is he not on the one? Yeah, they don't make him the most improved. So again this is like what's fun about the league is that we come back and the storylines are amazing and Derek, but like you when you started asking me, like who deserves to be there doing? We can do the Jason thing? Like I think it comes back to Derek White. The numbers, the net rating, the you know, the efficiency when he's on the floor, the blocks, the I mean just we can throw every NERD number out there and he is somewhere in the top ten of what he does, and to me, the differential he's putting up Jason Tatum like differential numbers this year.
My biggest argument for Derek White is the way that his teammates faces light up when you ask about them.
When we were in Los Angeles.
And I says a lot, yeah, really does After.
The Laker game and I asked Drew Holliday, someone says something about this Celtics team and being elite, and it was like, speaking of elite, can we talk about Derek White and those blocks? And Drew Holliday's face is just like, yeah, I am a shot blocker for a guard and I have no idea how he does what he does.
And to me, that speakes volumes.
That's a fourteen year veteran and Drew Holliday has been around this league and the fact that he is amazed by what Derek White does on a night to night basis to me, does everything.
And d White just had a huge block.
I can't remember if I think it was in overtime last night against the Pistons, right in transition going back, I don't even know that right before his dad came in on Twitter on x and he posted, name another Eastern Conference guard who would make that play?
And if you're gonna name him, show me visual evidence.
I don't know. I exist none.
I don't know if they exist.
And also for Derek at the other end of the court, he's tracking to potentially have a fifty to forty ninety season. I mean, you plug that in as a I'm going to say role player because he's not one of the superstars of the team, but you plugged that in as a role player on a championship contender. You want to talk about significant and being important to what's going to wind up potentially happening at the end of the season.
Like he's right there as one of the core members of that.
But he's also the guy who Joe Mizzoula talks about all the time. When the Celtics need to settle down, their offense need to make a play, they put the ball with as many ball handlers as they have on this team, put the ball in Derek White's hands and tell him to go make a pick, go play, Go do the pick and roll run it, and you know he's gonna make the right play.
Every single time.
It was almost jiring and that the last play of the or the second last play of that Piston's game when he didn't have the box out, like the one time that he hasn't been in the right spot.
And what does he do.
He goes out and scores ten points in overtime and reminds us like there were times last seison when he wasn't on the court in the fourth quarter in overtime, and I'm like, what is going on? Like Derek White needs to be out there, And now we all understand the value that Derek White has and that you want him with the ball in his hands, so so more of it.
We've heard the cases.
At least I have made the case for Jalen and Jason kind of being automatics in my opinion.
We've heard porzingis, We've heard Derek.
We haven't done enough.
Porzengis, yeah, we can.
You want to go more.
Like this is what's hard, Like I like, every time I want to make a case, I'm like, I want to make the really it's really strong case for Derek, but I can make a really strong case for Kristaps. And that's why I think coaches are going to be torn, Like both are really hard. And I think if you're game planning wise, you're worried about Chris STAPs posting up because he's putting up insane numbers, like historic potential numbers in post ups with the one point four eight points per players receiving this, and like, I don't know how you stop that, Like Detroit Pistons chair don't know what you say.
Monty Williams last night pregame just said, it's completely chaos because you have a seven foot three guy who is hitting what is he shooting above the brake for three and who can just pull up. He's like, I don't even know how to defend that. You're in scramble mode from the moment you try to set your defense.
I believe he's at like seventy three or seventy four percent on all two point shots right now, which like for someone who shoots a lot of long mid range is a pretty wild number. And I don't know, Like I just do feel like, you know, we keeping my cheat code, and it is like, this is the one thing the Celtics haven't had through the years is someone they can just dump the ball into take advantage of the switches. And they've getten so much better. Like I don't even think they've really tapped the full potential of Oh, look there's a six foot two dude on him, let's get him the ball. When that happens, when they consistently do it. There was that game maybe it was Memphis where Jalen totally missed them and they you know, they end up like complicating that.
Game last night though yeah he did.
Here, my god, he said it a lot calmer I was. I was looking at the TV going like, what are we doing? So it it?
He has added a dimension to the Celtics that they did not have before. I think you said that earlier, and I think he deserves to be rewarded for that, Like he's taken them to another level as an offensive team, and like the defense has been outrageous as well. So, uh, even though his net rating isn't quite as sexy as Derek White, no one else, no one's.
Is, no one's is.
So you know, it's a little harder to make the full metrics case, but I can give you six stats based on like the points per play on the post ups, the shooting efficiency from the floor of the blocks on that end, the you know when he's the screener, how good they've been, how good he's been as protecting the like you know, he deserves to be there.
It just comes down to the coaches need to vote.
And then you add to that the intangibles and the fact that Mark, like you said, he's coming off the best season of his career in Washington, and so many people questioned whether coming in here, if he could be that third guy, and he has more than assumed that role, is happy in it, and has shown how much he can step up when it's needed.
Has he played enough games?
I was just gonna say that.
Injury, but yeah, and that could be.
I don't think he hasn't missed enough where I take him out of contention. I just think if that becomes a discotting factor where you're like, oh, that dude's played every night, like you know.
Then that's what you're saying.
Brad Stevens makes the call in it about Derek White, not about Christal Well.
He makes a call about Derek White, and then he says, oh, and by the way, Kristaps has been awesome too. I need to put him on your ballot. And you know he's gonna play, you know enough games, and he's gonna do that. I just think Brad Brad needs to be the one who really sells it. I mean, he's a convincing, convincing man.
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Now they have that with Kris Stabs.
It can either be in a pick and roll where like last night against Detroit it was leading to a switch where he could go down on the post, take himself down against a smaller guy, or kick out whatever that is. But they haven't had that dimension to your point, Chris, and so now having that has just unlocked everything, and when they're winning at this pace, I just don't see to me, like I said, he's the third guy who I think is going to make the team minimum three guys from the Celtics.
I would say that's the most likely scenario too, Like, if you're gonna get three, it's gonna be those three and then you're gonna you're gonna cross your fingers on dock.
Yeah, but let's talk about Drew. We haven't talked about Drew.
And you know, Drew certainly has much more of the name brand. He's been on an All Star team a couple of times already in his career, including last season.
He's an NBA champion.
Uh, he's been an All defensive player for years on end scored fifty as you said last season. So how does Drew Holliday get his name back into this country?
So I think again, it's it's it's when Brad makes that call you say, Hey, also, I'm gonna hey, let's hop on FaceTime for a second. I'm gonna show you some clips of what what what Drew does and like how he changes us defensively. You show the clip of Joe Mizula going over before the season and saying, hey, look you got you got your you can do whatever you want on defense and you just have to have a reason why you do it. And giving him like full quarterback control of yeah, awesome, and uh, you know you show them what the Celtics gave up to go get Drew Holiday and how much my heart still not having Rob Williams.
Yeah, I know.
Actually is that a tier s a teer.
Brew h it was if the case is harder with Drew right like, because he's probably sacrificed more than anybody else.
Absolutely, there's no question about that.
I think you say, if Drew was to go play for the Charlotte Hornets and was the number one option on that team, even though Lamello wouldn't thrown the ball or whatever you like, there's a there's a world where Drew Holliday puts up All Star numbers where you're like, yes, he's definitely an All Star and just you can't do that here there's just not enough basketballs. But he's willing to do whatever they need and make the right play.
And to me, that's that's part of it.
That was absolutely necessary for him to be that guy in Milwaukee last year and he stepped up. I mean Chris Middleton was injured for I mean the better part of three quarters of that season, and Jannis needed a running mate, and Drew Holliday was happy to say, yeah, I can be that and come through every night while also taking on the defensive challenge of guarding the best player on every other team. And so I think that's really important to keep in mind when you're thinking about Drew Holliday, but also just talking to the guys, the impact that he has made inside this locker room. Already we are barely a third of the way through the season, and it was clear that Drew, I mean, he came in, he missed the first day of training camp because that trade went down so late, and so he's still trying to figure out and define his role on this team. But just talking to Al Horford, and I mentioned how many years Drew's been in the league, but Al's been in this league and Al has been a consummate leader in this league. And he said, Drew, the impact that he has had, you can feel it, and I think it's part of the reason why the other guys are so okay with sacrificing their numbers for the better of the team. He embodies that, and then he also has the receipts to back it up with that championship, and so I don't think that that can be discounted. And I feel like, if we're going to recognize anything when it comes to Drew, that that.
Is so important.
Let's also touch on a couple numerical things, right, The stats do actually give him, say Amy, some ammunition for this conversation. Drew Holliday is a two time All Star this season, He's shooting a career high three point percentage. He's got a career high a rebounding average. He's number four among number four among East guards in net rating. So there are numbers there to support his case as well. But the craziest thing about the conversation, especially these last two guys we've talked about with Kris STAPs and Drew, is that, as you said, Brad brings these guys in and you just you don't know how it's going to work out. With so many guys who have typically had the ball in their hands, have typically been a number one or two on their teams, how are they going to perform as a number three and number four, sometimes even at number five. These two guys and Kristaps and Drew have bought into their roles at such an elite level that I have not seen here with the Celtics since back in those days when Ray had to make that sacrifice, when Rondo had to make a sacrifice at times when his career could have taken off. I mean that, to me is the most impressive, and I do think the coaches who vote on these reserves are going to pay attention to that. I don't know if that's going to lead to three reserves possibly being voted in or two maybe Jalen does get in as that fifth starter. Who knows, but I do think that's going to be in the brains of a lot of these assistants, a lot of these head coaches who vote.
This is where I wish that maybe we were a little bit more like the NFL. So like the NFL has spots on the Pro Bowl squad just for a special team, right, we all know how important special teams are in the NFL.
Even though you would never.
Vote to Bill Belichick, well especially.
To Bill Balichick, but to everybody, So like Matthew Slater gets rewarded even though he's not a guy who's out there on every down, who barely plays any wide receiver minutes and you know, but we understand the value of what he is out there. I don't know if you need a spot, like Okay, let's say you add a thirteenth on a fourteenth spot on an All Star roster, and you're like, this one's for a defensive specialist. And I know that runs counter to everything we want to watch it an All Star game, and so maybe this is just a stupid astign.
It happens every year anyway, Like there's guys who check in, Like to be quite, I don't want to see Yo Kitchen an All Star Game because it's not going to be that fun.
He's not gonna be jumping out done right, Yeah, I mean I could see.
The passing, but it's it's I think when we think of the All Star Game, we think of these.
Big, loud, athletic feats for sure, and sometimes that doesn't happen.
So like, let's say we had a defensive specialists on each each team, each East West, each get one guy. It would be it would be nice to reward someone who knows that they give up their offensive like energy to be the best defender in that conference. And like even I think back, like Tony Allen probably would have never won a what have been on an All Star teams, but could have gone consideration.
Because he was so good defensively.
Time, Like, it just opens the door to more players that maybe deserve that spotlight. And I do think the NBA is so creative with what we're doing with tournaments, and like the way we view it and like the the information that's out there. I would love if we could start putting a spotlight on more than just the scorers. And so like, if you did a defensive specialist, I don't know what.
Yeah, no Forsburgh. Now, now, who's being unrealistic. You came in and started this podcast.
Like, well, there's no way we're going to.
Get a defensive specialist in the All Star Game maybe for the but's go.
Ahead and cut that clip for like five years from now.
I like where you're going to.
I mean, if if we do add maybe we just thought of something as the NBA considered this. If we add a couple of spots and one of them is kind of dedicated in each conference to someone who's making the sacrifice, I guess because that player is always going to exist, right, There's always going to be teams where someone is making a sacrifice unless.
One sacrificial lamb person.
Yes, let's go No what yeah, no, no Abby, no sacrificial lambs.
What about like the advance.
And like the best dunker, best in game dunker spot because you want to see that in the All Star game called the dunk that.
Person and he's probably.
Like, why, it's why we dumped up Craig Lodges for the three point contest, said game.
The dunk contest is a separate thing, right, well, Jaln' is already gonna be.
Get you.
And wouldn't that be funny if, like I mean, it would be some random big man like Rudy Goberer was even on a non All Star wouldn't get there.
But I'm saying we're gonna do defensive special earth no artificial landsive specialists dunker.
These would have to be something that, again are voted by the coaches. So that's something that would that steps outside the All Star and general All Star criteria and gives them something to reward. And so if you're going to expand the roster, which will be a hard sell because then every guy who came before, it's gonna be like, well, man, I made the when it was a twelve twelve person team and now like it diminishes a little bit. But if you threw in the specialist, I think it just opens the door.
And like, but this is exactly what Adam Silver has done on his own right when there's been injury replacements. How about a segue right there, Adam Silver has actually chosen some of those guys in past years where they're not your name brand guy. They might not be averaging twenty five points a game, they might not be leading the league in as, but there's sold to Wade.
So I think I get where you're treading. I think I get where you're treating.
Here.
We should injure all the other players in the Eastern car.
I mean it happens every year, right at least there's going to be at least one injury replacement, usually on both the East and the West. So you're gonna probably have thirteen players who make the All Star team technically, So when when you're looking at this and it all boils down to it, can the Celtics possibly get one of those guys in through an injury replacement?
Because when we look back.
So if I told you about the twenty fifteen Atlanta Hawks and that they had those four guys make the team. Would you remember that Kyle Kover was an injury replacement and that's how we made the team.
Probably would have guessed that there was some circumstance that got them the fourth guy.
But I'm with you, Like, before I looked it up today, he would have been would have been more.
I would have probably thought he was. He made it just on like shooting forty four.
Yeah, but there's your specialist, right, It's not the defensive specialist, but it's it's the person who is helping to fuel an extremely successful season.
By the Hawks that year. They went on rewarding I.
I don't know how many games they went on to win that season, but they were one of the top two teams.
At the All Star break that year.
Uh And actually every single time, actually the last five times, that's as far back as I went, because that's the last twenty or so years. But the last five times that this has happened where four players have made it from the same team, they have had to be one of the top two teams in the league at the time.
You did by like a pretty good march.
I feel like you need to be have distanced yourself from the field, and that's the problem. Like right now, when you look at the standings, Philly is still lingering. I think they're going to get two guys. Milwalla's still there. They're gonna have two guys. Like that's the hard part is like whenever I tell people and they say, man, the selfish deserve more. People go do the exercise like write it out, and then you get done and you're like.
Yeah, here, what did I do?
Let me hear it, let me poo poo on your I wrote it out.
Okay, let's let's dive in in the Eastern Conference. My definites, as I already spoke about, are.
I needs Lillard.
You're gonna write this down?
No, no, no, go for it.
Okay, Lillard, Embiid, Yannis and Tatum. They're absolutely going to get voted in by the fans. They're going to be starters. The guards are the toughest spot and unfortunately that's where the Celtics are going to need to get two guys in in Drew and Derek, who.
Are changes for Jalen now if because.
Because he's technically a forward, he got.
In as a guard.
Technically a forward.
But I do think that I think Jalen is in great shape, and I actually think that Porzingis is in pretty good shape too. But let's go down this so guards. Okay, let's hypothetically say that Haliburton gets in as a starter. Max, he's got to make it, Donovan Mitchell most likely teams not playing that great drama. Trey great numbers, not the greatest team, and I don't.
Like he's like he's modification of all stars, like the guy who just scored, and it like it hasn't even been as empty calories as I've thought in your past. He's been legitimately good this year. And even though I want to penalize him for his team not winning, I look at that roster and I can't penalize him for his team.
Yeah, and yet again leading the league in assists.
And then at that point, you've got the next three, Like one of these guys is going to make the team, and possibly two if there's an injury, Derek White, Drew Holliday and Jalen Brunson. After that we're talking about mckel bridges, we're talking about Darius Garland. Like, I think those three guys are above those other two that I just mentioned, Derek Drew and Jalen Brunson. I think are the three that one of them definitely gets in, and then if there's an injury, maybe another one sneaks in going down to the forwards, so or centers, I said embiid giannasent Tatum. Absolutely, I think Jalen gets in absolutely as a reserve. Probably Jimmy have another great season, actually career high three point percentage. And then at that point you're talking about one spot between the following three as a shoeing because we're assuming six for the forwards, six for the guards. Porzingis, Bam and Julius Randall. I think Porzingis is at the front of that group right now. And again, you know one of those other guys might sneak in as uh well, let me put it this way.
What about Orlando?
So? But does Orlando definitely? I mean.
All people like, you're not gonna put Polo on that that All Star team.
Over these other guys.
I don't think the way it.
Goes because the numbers, the people are gonna go down the stats and they're gonna say, when we played, when we play the Magic, who are we most fearful of and everything goes into stopping Polow and.
You think that the I'm not saying it's right.
I'm just telling you, like, this is the way it's gonna go. Like you can you can't have the Magic as the fifth or like at this point they could be up at the fourth best team in the Eastern Conference and not give them an All Star like even Eddie House wouldn't do that.
I don't know that's debatable.
But we've also got a I mean, the Magic have not been playing great since they came to Boston.
The Celtics kind of broke them.
And we don't know what's going to happen in January that remember remember these votes are coming in a month. Yeah, right, so that we don't know where the Magic are going to be at that time. They don't have that long standing history of playing well through the or getting into the All Star breaks.
So that's what I think.
I think it's those three guys, one of them, poor Zingis Bam and Julius Randall are that.
That sixth big man that makes the team.
And then below that, I've got Paolo, I've got Franz Siakam and Barnes.
Like those are the other guys that I think are in that competition.
Yeah, maybe Toronto struggling will help a.
Little bit with Like his numbers are Scotti's number.
That's the thing, right, Like it just comes down to I can't get inside a coach's head, Like I don't know they look you don't want to be no, exactly, Like they watch way more than I get to watch, and they'll they fixate on certain things and I'll be fascinated to see how how that voting goes. I do think you've laid out a good argument of as why the Celtics team to have.
I'll be in a good slot. There is a chance.
This conversation maybe a little more realistic.
Want me to tell you another reason why. I think there's another chance.
Nine times there's been four players from a team that have made it.
The Celtics have three of them.
That is an NBA record, and I think it could be four this year. I think they're gonna need an injury in the end, I really do. But I think they're going to get three straight up, and then if an injury comes, I think they might get that fourth. Because Adam Silver tends to lean toward guys who are impacting winning.
I think he does that.
He prioritizes that over say a guy who's just starting to get his career arc into the All Star conversation. So a guy like Derek White, or a guy like Drew Holliday or Christas Porzingis, whoever is in that conversation, they're more established. They're a member of a team that at this point is the best in the NBA. I think that's where Adam Silver goes.
We need to get Adam Silver back to a game here when like Derek White's.
Going And that's why this conversation is more important, and we continue to further the narratives and why people need to get out the vote, because Adam Silver does see that as well. And so if Derek White's name shows up on the returns for the Guards over and over again, if Christop's name gets up there, it's in his consciousness as well.
Let's not forget that. Christapp says, an entire country that can vote for.
Him as well, well, an entire like Baltic.
This is also true.
I didn't want to expand it that far, but all right, Abby, and putting you on the spot, what are your predictions?
This is so tough being the captain of Derek team for Derek White All Star. I'm going the Jays and I can't go against that. So and Derek White, I say.
Three, Okay, I think you get three. It breaks my heart to squeeze Derek off. Adam Silver do the right thing, yes, find a way to get my man on there.
But I will go.
I will say, despite my entire reluctance throughout this program to me, you have broken me down. I will give you the w today and I will say, just so you invite me back on this podcast. At some point, I will say the South is get Jalen, Jason, Chris STAPs, and then uh, there is a there is a chance if there is an injury that Adam Silver does the right thing.
If I could drop this mic right now, I would. I can't, but I'm gonna say the exact same thing. I think Jason gets in as a starter. Jalen is obviously voted in as a reserve. I think Kristaps gets in as a reserve. And then while I do think that Derek deserves it and should be there, he might be just there's so much depth in the backcourt in the East. I think he's gonna need an injury, and if there is an injury, I think he gets in there so.
We don't roof for anyone to roll an ankle.
But I also think, just to put a bow on this conversation, Drew Holliday will be totally fine.
Yeah, in February, And in fact, I think what should happen in like week three of the marketing campaign. They just ask they should show the car pulling over to the side of the road and Drew gets out and he's like, Derek, I want you there stock exchange brother, and then he just rubs the RCENS plate that goes to Indy four and then drives away.
My favorite part of this is how well you studied that year that we put it was a good promotion. Fantastic Hey, Celtics marketing team, as I said at the start, going for the juggler.
This year, they're.
Pushing all five. We don't know if they'll get all five. We're hoping for four.
I will say the flip could happen here and then so like somehow Jalen gets squeezed or Chris STAPs gets squeezed, or Celtics only end up with two guys out there and Celtics Twitter is just a hot mess for like forty eight hours.
If that happened, they're fifth of the league.
If that happens, I say, Jason and Jalen just don't show up. Boycott who pretty sure Boycott.
I know it's indy, but like people are gonna be you know, like there'll be a party somewhere they want to go to.
I do want to have an entire argument against these cold weather cities for the All Star Yeah.
We need to follow the Super Bowl model, right, I'm.
Not going say that.
All right, that's a wrap. We've gone through all five. We've got a pretty strong argument for all five guys. I don't think they're going to get all five. Well let's hope. Let's hope they at least get four. That would give the Celtics four out of the ten instances in the history of the NBA the four guys have made it on one team.
Celtics would have four if they do it this year.
So get out the vote for vote.
At Celtics dot com slash vote. We need all your votes coming in for the players potentially getting in as starters.
And then who knows, As Chris said, maybe.
If some of those guys show up on the returns that influences what the coach is doing, what Adam Silver does afterwards. So get out there, celtics dot com slash vote. Let's see how many of these guys we can send it.
Indi
