A “DoorDash dad.” A “Venezuelan father.” Joe Pags challenges the headlines surrounding the Austin ICE shooting—and asks why the man’s immigration status and reported final removal order weren’t front and center.

Former Border Patrol commander Gregory Bovino joins Pags to examine the media’s framing, the attempted arrest, and the reported pursuit. Pags also presses Bovino on the critical question: what would justify an officer using deadly force?

The conversation expands to Minneapolis versus New Orleans, Bovino’s blunt assessment of mass deportations, cartel drones, and his answer about a possible 2028 presidential run.

The Austin shooting was under investigation at the time of this interview. Bovino offers his assessment of the information available.