In this episode, Gem sits down with Heather Rice-Minus, President and CEO of Prison Fellowship, to explore what it means to follow Jesus in places that are complex, urgent, and often overlooked.

Heather shares how her calling into justice and prison ministry unfolded, from advocacy work that helped shape the First Step Act to her current leadership of one of the most influential prison ministries in the world. But this conversation goes beyond her role and into her life with God.

Together, they reflect on what she has learned from those who are incarcerated, how proximity to suffering reshapes our understanding of people and of God, and what Jesus may have meant when he said, “I was in prison and you came to visit me.”

They also explore the tension between urgency and presence, and how an unhurried life is not only possible, but necessary, even in work that carries real weight.

If you care deeply about making a difference but feel tired, stretched, or unsure how to keep going, this conversation offers a grounded and hopeful way forward.

You’ll also hear:

• The unexpected discovery of joy among the incarcerated.
• Transformational leadership in the prison system.
• How slowing down can actually strengthen your leadership.

This is a conversation about justice, leadership, and the kind of life that can sustain both.