This is Teddy Teapot. Hi, guys, thanks for tuning in again. I put something out there last week about what topics you guys would want to speak on, and the number one overwhelming response was addiction. So I am so excited to announce that Cameron Douglas and Jason Waller both going to be on the podcast today. Cameron wrote a book called long Way Home. It is incredible. I'm on chapter right now. It's like a page S Turner, Um, he grew up. He talks about his struggles and the pressures he felt growing up as you know, um Michael Douglas's son, but also his years with addiction and being in prison. And I am just so grateful that he is here sharing his experience with us so that we can all learn and grow from it. So please make sure that any other topics you want us discuss, or any questions that you have on this podcast or anything else that we can dig into, email Teddy t at I Heart radio dot com. Cameron's book, long Way Home, talks about his struggles with drug addiction that resulted in multiple overdoses, his proclivity to crime and violence, his criminal trials in seven years in prison. Two of which were spent in solitary confinement. Wow, thanks so much for coming in, Cameron. I'm on chapter seven of your book. I got it last week. I am. I can't even tell you well as I'm reading it, I am. I have so many more questions I need to ask, and so do my listeners. So I'm so grateful that you're here. Can you give us a little bit of background on what led you to write the book and you know, some of your experience. Um So that was It was kind of an interesting process because my family has always been very private and I've sort of always followed suit with that as best as I could. Um But you know, my father kept mentioning to me about, you know, possibly writing a book about some of my experiences, and I was sort of wrestling with the idea. I couldn't understand why exactly. Um So, basically, I realized in the end that it was really the the ultimate way of showing your love. You know. My father and mother felt that I had a story to tell and felt that maybe it could be useful, and despite the fact that it would inevitably put some of their past back in the light, they felt that it was that it was that I had a story to tell. So I think it was a very selfless, selfless act of of love on on their behalf. But you know, for me, once I kind of got over the initial hump of of you know, getting around to writing the book, it was it was an interesting journey. It was a long journey. It took about four years to write the book. UM. I started writing in about a year before I came home, So I was still in prison when I started writing the book UM and and a lot of people ask, you know, if it was cathartic, and it was definitely that, but it was also it was difficult, you know, because I had to go back over my entire life, talked to a lot of people that I hadn't spoken to in years to try to really get an understanding of what was going on. UM. But in the end of the day, I found it to be very helpful. Gave me a real perspective on on some of my decisions, um and what led me to making those decisions, and and in the end, trying to make something useful out of all of that pain and wreckage that there was. I I read that you started experimenting with drugs around the age of thirteen around when did you kind of realized wow, like this is this is something more serious? Because something I often hear, especially from the younger generation, especially from like an affluent younger generations, I'm just experimenting. I'm in college, I'm just having fun. Like how do you know yourself that things are going to that point? But also how did the people around you in your life know that they need to start taking action or can they even take action? Well, I think there's, uh, there's a fine line between partying hard and having a good time and being a full blown addict. So I think, I mean some telltale signs for oneself is like if you're staying up for days on end, probably a red flag, you know, if you know things like that, If if your life is becoming unmanageable, it's probably a red flag. I think that. I definitely think that you know, partying and experimenting is is okay, and it's part of growing up. Um, but I guess I guess the real indicator is when your focus starts to be uh, really revolving around getting high rather than leading a productive life. I think it's really when you're probably in trouble and and and and hopefully you can either have you know, the inside or or or the wisdom. I think some souls are just older souls and just have done this more times and and get it quicker. Um some of us it takes much longer, like myself, and some of us unfortunately never get it. So and I know you talked a lot about like the pressure of growing up with you know, a famous parent and the pressures that you put on yourself. Do you think that despite those pressures, like I I'm I'm similar where I grew up with having, you know, putting my own pressure on myself. But I kind of went the opposite way where I was so scared to try anything or do anything because if I were to mess up, my parents had me sign a contract when I came to California that said, Okay, if you get any trouble, you have to move back to Indiana. And I was like, you know what that is? That is deatifying right there enough, But I never try anything. But in you know, in turn, with that pressure, I kind of became super anxious. I'm type A mostly D like all of those things. So I think it can develop itself in many different ways. But do you think that regardless of your upbringing, that is something that would have shown anyway. Well, listen, I think the first thing you have to look at is is your genetics. You know, does it run in your family? And if it does, I think you need to be more aware. But you know, back to your question and your point really is, I didn't in all fairness, I can't sit here and say that I had a lot of pressure heaped on me by my family. I think I put a lot of pressure on myself to try and live up to my family's name. And I just found the way that I felt that I was doing that was was destructive. Um. So yeah, I think Look, I think we're we're every one of us is dealt to hand in life and it's and it's the way that we uh play that hand. I certainly was never was always loved and cared for. Um, I just had, you know, issues that I was wrestling with and the way that I chose to deal with those issues let down a pretty rough, rough path for me. And to start, I mean, you did have a little bit of access to money, do you think of right from the beginning. I mean a lot of people are writing in because their kids are you know, experimenting with drugs. They're starting to worry it's going down a more aggressive path and they're not knowing how to handle it. But they love their kids. They want to take care of their kids. But how do you know when to cut them off or you know, the access to money? Is that creating in a bigger monster? I think it's like this. I mean depending on where. If you're dealing with somebody that's you feel is struggling with addiction, I think you have to really take a good hard look at you know, where they are exactly in their journey, and I think, um, there does come a point where you do have to sort of let go and and let them find their way hopefully. But until that point, I think you personally, I think you should try to do everything you can do in your power to uh to to help them. Yeah, because I was also reading you know through a lot of it, you would have either, Um, there was aaron in your book that was by your side for a long time. And do you think that now in retrospect, do you think, Wow, if if she would have cut ties with me earlier, things would have been different, or if this person would have cut me off completely or do you think it wouldn't have mattered. I think, you know, looking back on everything, I think one thing that really would have been helpful to me had I been open to it, was it was therapy. HAD had many opportunities to to work with therapists as a as a young man, and it was always just you know, really closed off to it and not open to it at all. Of course, now I worked with a therapist on a regular basis and I find it to be extremely helpful, UM, And so I think that's one thing for sure that maybe would have made a difference. It's hard to pinpoint any little details or relationships. I think. You know, it's funny because your parents always love you, and the people that are closest to you love you, and they try to when you're starting to go down this road. They like to point the finger at everyone else being a bad influence. But the truth is I was a bad influence on everybody else. So you know, it's just, uh, I don't know everybody has I like think maybe that that maybe we all have a journey and and some of the uh, the experiences that we go through is necessary for UM helping us to become equipped to lead the life that we're meant to to lead. Uh, that's maybe optimistic, But who knows. What what do you think was I mean, I know this is crazy question, but what do you think was harder? Like when you were in the throes of addiction and overdosing or being in jail and solitary confinement. Well, I mean they they are both prisons, you know in a sense. You know, one is is is a prison of your own making through addiction, just like a ball and chain around your ankle and um. And that's that's difficult, but it's it's it's a choice two that that you're making. And and a lot of it is miserable. And that's the insanity of addiction. I think a lot of addicts struggle with is that they just they're so unhappy with what's going on in their lives, but they just can't let go for whatever reason. One maybe that's what they count on for a little bit of relief for you know too, they've been doing it so long that that's all they know. Um. And then prison is a whole different animal that's just thrust upon you. And and for me, I had really no experience or no idea what I was in store for so the learning curve for me was very sharp there to say the least. Um, and what was solitary confinement like, because you were there for almost two years? Correct, I was it was Well, I will say that it's amazing, h with the human It's amazing how humans can adapt to more any situation one and and two I learned the amazing will that a human has to survive. Um. So, yeah, it's solitary, that's a that's a whole another topic that I feel strongly about because I've had my own personal experiences with it. But it's, uh, it's it's it's a necessary tool sure for for for prisons to to monitor the safety of someone or the safety of individuals around that person, but it needs to be implemented in the short term. These days, they they just tossed you in there and they and they leave you there really for you know, for not a good reason. And it's uh, you can make things worse, well, I think. I mean, look, it's like if you put somebody in a cement box the size of an elevator um for a long period of time, does that make them less angry? No? Make them more stable? No? You know, what I mean, it's just you could just go down the list and realize it's not really going to be helpful. And I think that's I mean, that's not up for debate. What's what's up for debate is is when are they going to start making these necessary reforms? Because the reality is in this I can also speak from experience, is our prison industrial complex in this country is not um it's not it's not made to reform individuals. It's it's made to break them down. And and during your your your time in prison, you're treated like an animal. And what happens when you're treated like an animal for for a long period of time, you start acting like an animal and then one day you get you get kicked out the door and you and you move in next door to a regular, tax paying, law abiding citizens. So it's like they need to do a better job of turning out men and women that are that are reformed. Right, And you talk a lot about like, um, I don't like, I don't like to the little womanizing or fighting or any of those things. Do you think that all goes hand in hand in hand with addiction or do you think they're all kind of separate things? That have to be worked on, or or once the drugs are gone, the other things go away as well. Well. I don't know. I mean, I've never considered myself a womanizer. I mean I am kind of like a I guess, a romantic at hard not maybe womanizer. Maybe that was the other person I had on wording. Sorry, but but you had said you were with multiple people at one time, but you would keep certain girlfriends around. I did, I did go through. I did, Yes, I I I. So what happened is is I had a I had a really rough relationship for a number of years, um, and when her and I finally parted ways, I told myself that I wouldn't allow myself to be in an another relationship until I was completely ready for it. And I did this because I didn't like the lies that I was telling when I was in this relationship. I didn't like the behavior, the guilt that I felt for not acting properly in this relationship. So I just did that as a kind of a way to to stop, yeah and just you know, live honestly. Um. But maybe it didn't didn't come across that way. I don't know, No, I didn't know. I M sorry. About the wording UM. And then also I am on as I said, chapter so, I am at the part where you've started using heroin again in the in the prison. How do you ultimately get clean without ruining the without ruining the book? But for our listeners like, how did that actually happen? And then how are you able to stay well? So for me, getting clean was was an evolution in prison. I certainly didn't get lean right away. My my prison sojourn was was atypical, to say the least. I I started, I started my journey out a minimum security prison and I and I worked my way diligently up to a high security prison, which is where I ended up doing most of my time. And that's not the way it's supposed to work, supposed to work your way down, you know. But I had a difficult time adjusting UM. And but the turning point for me was UH, when I was given my second sentence, which basically doubled my sentence. It turned a five year sentence into a ten year sentence. And UH, and I came back from the sentencing and I was in the box at that time. I was in they call it solitary confinements and you can't go out at all. You couldn't even work out anymore at this point. Oh no, you you have to work out, work out in my cell, but in your cell you couldn't even go but not nothing else you have. So the way it's supposed to work is you get one hour a day, uh in the outdoors. But what that is is it's it's one hour a day in another cement box with a cage over the top, and you can see the sky. But it's it's not it's not like being outside. It's just kind of having some fresh air, which is nice. Um. But you know, the exercise was was important for me through throughout. That was one of the cornerstones, um of my routine. And the routine is really what helped me get through it and make it necessary changes. Um. But back to you, you know how really I got sober? How it began anyways, was I arrived back to my cell and there was just there had been a riot in uh in the in that unit, in the special housing unit they called the shoe um. And guys when they riote, they'll plug their toilets and they'll just they'll overflow the cell with water. And so I arrived to my cell, and there was like four inches of water on the ground, and you don't have shells. So all my books, all my pictures, all my letters, everything was just like ruined, soaking wet, and I and I walked in the cell, I took my handcuffs off, and and I just felt something inside of me kind of cracking or breaking, and and and I felt at that moment that I had two paths left open to me. And one path would have been one that I probably would not have made it back from. And the other path was one that gave me a little bit of purpose, a little bit of light. In that moment, which was I came up with the idea that I would try to make each day count towards putting myself in the best possible position and to to make a life for myself when I was finally released. And so I found that that started working for him. You know. It got me out of the rack every morning, got me motivated to you, built a little curriculum for myself. Um and slowly, slowly I started getting stronger. I started realizing that indeed I did have these traits like discipline and drive that I thought I just inherently wasn't born. Yeah, exactly, just started building myself and uh, and then and then basically a couple of years down the line, I'm I'm feeling good, strong, focused, I feel like I have, you know, my priorities in the right order. But I'm still dabbling and dabbling with with heroin from time to time, and and uh, and then I reached a point where I just couldn't rationalize anymore. Uh, my heroin, use with you telling myself. I was doing everything I could do to put myself in the best position when I was finally released. So finally I was able to give that up. I'd say that's probably about three three years before I came home. And then when did you meet? Um, I know you have a daughter, So when did you meet your significant other? And how did that happen? And you know, so so that's a funny story. Actually, so I meant, Vivian is my girlfriend and the mother of my daughter, and and uh and we lived together and and so I met Vivian probably fifteen years ago here in l A. She was she was she was modeling it at a runway show. And you know, they do like these wacky kind of themes something. So part of her costume was she had this huge blue afro and I after the show, I was backstage and I was talking to her and we were trying to have a serious conversation, and I just couldn't get over that huge blue After us, I told her, I said, look, I'm trying to take you seriously, but the hair is difficult. But then we we stayed friends for a while after that. Both of us were in a very different place at that point in our lives. And and then I didn't see her for for years. And then a few years before I came home, I got a letter from her and she had, you know, gone through a lot of changes in her life, and and we started writing each other letters. Because I didn't have my phone privileges at the time, and getting to know each other like that kind of getting to know somebody right like it was just kind of I didn't I didn't know her in this way. And so and then at the time we we got back in contact, my my visitation privileges were also I didn't have those, and so it was about a year and a half till I was getting those backs. We had about a year and a half to just write letters. Uh, and then when I got those backs, she came to visit and she basically, you know, was there waiting for me when I was released from prison. And then we had a little girl, see, not even a year after I came home. So she's been been great. My daughter's it's amazing. She's probably or is definitely my biggest teacher in life right now. Um So it's it's I mean, I feel really blessed these days, you know. I mean I've obviously, you know, I've been well here, lucky. I'm fortunate to say that. You know, when I came home, I was able to really still dig in and stay disciplined and really you know, work at building a life for myself. Finished this book, I've been working on acting and screenplay writing, and everything is starting to come together. So that's what was gonna ask about acclimating back into society. And because I have a listener question that was directly for you, it was Cameron, my son has been struggling with an addiction to heroin for ten years and he's currently incarcerated and will be released on December two. My husband and our four other children are in panic mode. We want him to go into a sober living community for a year while he finishes his parle. But he is refusing to. I am paralyzed because I'm afraid he will die. He has no plan and he needs to learn coping skills and participate in therapy. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Well, so depending on how I mean, I don't know what his what his legal situation is, but he should be mandated to go into a halfway house. He's done a little bit of time, um, and that can be very helpful. It's look, when you're in prison, the last thing you want to think about doing is going into a halfway house when you're released. But it is, Uh, the adjustment is it's not easy and and and I can vouch for that. I'm I'm somebody who thought it was gonna be nice and smooth, and it was very difficult for me. So so I think that hopefully her son, and you probably won't like me saying this, but hopefully her son will have to go into a halfway house, and I think that'll be helpful. But the truth is, Teddy, which is you know what I was telling you is that there comes a point where you know, sometimes a person is so far along in their journey in their addiction that there's nothing that you can do except for just hope and pray that they find their way. And you have to take a little bit of the pressure off yourself and off your family, because that's the that's the cold hard reality of this thing. And do you think in that case, like an ultimatum works or is that just going to put you know, could he possibly be saying he doesn't want to go in because he just wants to get home and use sure, I mean, that's probably what it is. If if he doesn't even realize that, um, that's that you know, that addict sort of it's it's it's crafty. But you know, I think at this point, I mean, he's in prison, and he's obviously he's been doing this for ten years. It's a long time to be doing heroin. It's not an easy habit to you to keep up and running. So I mean, I'm I'm sorry to say, but you know, I think he's probably just going to have to and maybe he is already at that point where he's ready to to to change something. So hopefully that's, uh, that's what they're gonna find when he comes home. Yeah. Um, so since you have been out and now that you're doing all these positive things, what are some other tools that we could give listeners? You know, of course that's great that you've been able to find your y and all of those things and work hard. But for somebody who's struggling to even get to that point, yeah, what could you? What could you share? So so, I, in my opinion, and for me, my routine is is extremely important. So I think you have to have an iron clad routine that works for you and stick to it. So my the cornerstone of my routine is is is meditation and and exercise. So that's sort of the cornerstone. And then I build around that, right and and and so I think that success and I'm trying to think because happiness is not but I think, you know, success and fulfillment I think really comes through having your priorities in the right order and having the discipline to follow through on those priorities. So so your routine will help you do that, you know, And then you just have to, in my opinion, you have to take a good hard look at you know, what your priorities really are. Are they healthy? And then and then really dig in and fall through on on what it takes to to see those priorities work fruition. Another big question is how do you bring addiction up in a constructive manner when they always get defensive. I mean, I think the best way to do it is not by beating around the bush. I think if you if there's somebody that you care about and you see them, you know, really struggling and you have X, Y and Z reason why, I think you should just lay that out on the table and have a talk with him and say, look, we think you're messed up. This is why we think you're messed up, and you know what, tell me why we're wrong kind of thing. I mean from my reading your book, there was a part that a couple of times where the most frustrated you ever seemed was when you thought you were going to do something and you were tricked into something else. Yeah, I mean me personally. I Uh, That's why I say to you, I think I think being upfront is really the best, the best way, you know, and it really just like sit down with the person that you care are about enough to sit down and have this conversation with and have a real heart to heart. One other question, um, somebody wrote in I'm on the road to recovery, but relapse is one of the hardest forms of shame for me to carry. How do I let go of that? That's a good question, and that's that's an issue that I still wrestle with myself. UM. I mean I have, I have a lot of guilt and shame surrounding UM many years of my life. And and it's interesting because it's it's it's there. So I'm I'm learning now how to start to let let go of that, UM. And you know, I think for me when I start, you know, filling that guilt and shame a little stronger than usual. I tried to, you know, I tried to just let myself know. I mean, look, no, nobody knows ourselves better than ourselves, right, So if you know that you're doing your best and that's all you can do. Uh, and if other people are willing to forgive you, then you need to be willing to forgreak yourself. Well, I we have to take a break. But thank you so much for sharing and being so vulnerable. I know that even reading your book, and I know how many lives you're changing, and so Thank you. I really appreciate it. Thank you for having me. Hi, Jason, how are you. I'm good, How are you good? Thanks so much for coming on today. We really appreciate it. Well, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be a part of it. Well, I have been, you know, I've been researching you a lot the last couple of days that I'm you know, blown away with all the work you've done with um your sober living facility because a lot of our listeners that is a huge question that they're asking, is you know, my kid, my honor, my son or my husband. You know, this has changed and they don't want to go into a sober living facility. And I was just kind of wanted to start with that and how important that is. Well, I just I'm more than happy to discuss that. I wanted to let you know I am no longer actually doing the sober living stuff. I'm very involved with aftercare and all those components, but my actual will we actually stopped doing the aftercare piece. What I wish we did it. It is still very very important and it's something that is is much needed, but I've directed my, you know, my efforts into a much more advocacy role much feel like it would be a much It's much more impertinent to be able to do stuff like that. But I'm more than happy to talk about anything related to you, substance to be, mental health, recovery, whatever you want to talk about. So perfect Well, I guess let's just start then with how are you doing currently? Honestly, if things are any better, I'd be in heaven. I mean, I I'm living my best life. You know, I've I've been able to really achieve balance in my life. I'm able to live in the moment, be pre event, got an amazing family, an amazing wife, uh, and really making an impact, you know, on people's lives that struggle with this disease. And it's something that you know, I really found my passion through through recovery. It's just been it's incredible. I mean, don't get me wrong, There's been its ups and down through the way, you know, through the process, but overall, Um, you know, things are absolutely incredible right now. Um, do you feel like it's still a struggle every day? I had um Cameron Douglas on right before you, and we were talking about how he's able to remain sober and he was saying a huge part for him is a routine and that's what corrects him, you know, you know, for lack of better words, accountable to feeling good. Um, is that similar case for you? Well, by the way, I love Cameron, great guy, great story, by the way, But I mean this isn't this is not alcohol was Um, it's alcoholism, right, So I mean it's something we have to work on on a daily basis. And to his point, you know, I do have a every single morning I wake up, you know, I do a morning meditation, I do a prayer, I send out a gratitude list to it's ten other individuals of three things that I'm grateful for. Not only what I'm grateful for, but why because the wise were the meat really lies to help you understand that not only do you have a lot to be grateful for, you that you actually have more than you need. Uh. And then either I go to the gym or I go to a meeting. Uh. And that's how I start my day off every single day. Don't steer away from it, because you know, when I was active in my addiction, it was something that I worked on seven to remain high and under the influence, and when you are sober, you have the same effort in to maintain or maintain sobriety. It's so crazy that regardless of what what it is in life, if it's an addiction or depression or anxiety, following a routine is what actually always makes you feel better. But it's the one thing you really don't want to do it. It's it's what do they say, it's much harder. It's much easier to break. Uh, it's much harder to break a bad happiten, it is a good one, right, But I think it's in this in this world that we live in today, we're so prone to instant gratification, you know, where there's so much influence out there, and I think a routine really draws you closer to self, so you can actually identify who you are and what it is that you're wanting to pursue. And that's what I've gotten out of a routine is really self identification of me. I've got the best part about sobriety for me is I've got to know I got to know myself because for so many years I didn't know who I was. I was so lost, Uh, you know, and I had no, of course, of what direction I wanted to take when I was under the influence that robbed me of everything that was important to me. Um And you know, through sobriety and in recovery, uh, it's allotted me to get to know self and really pursue the things that I really love and enjoy. And something else that I was talking to Cameron about that I wasn't sure if it would resonate with you as well. We were talking about having like you were on the Laguda Beach or the hills when all of this started, right, so you had a lot of you had the financial ability to be able to do these things, And I was saying out the same thing kind of went with Cameron. Do you think if you had less money it would have been less prevalent in your life or do you think it wouldn't have mattered You would have figured it out? No, it would have. I mean, at the end of the day, wouldn't have mattered. I mean I came from a very successful family, if you will, I came, but I also came from somebody, you know. I came from a solid foundation of of you know, I had good morals, good values, was raised right, had parents who were unbelievable. I mean, definitely the same added fuel to the fire. But ultimately, before any of that stuff happened, I mean I can even identify when I was thirteen or fourteen years old, without having to utilize subs, substances or drugs, I noticed that I had, you know, underlying issues, whether that was self or self esteem, uh, you know, and many other things. The question anxiety. I struggled with O c D at a very young age, and all those things kind of compelled, but there was nothing. There was not resources or outlets to be able to talk about that. Even just you know, fifteen years ago. Uh, compared to where we're at today, I mean, we've progressed so much more, and you know, just being able to reach out today versus back then is in a totally different spot. Uh. You know. The money piece definitely, you know, I mean it made things, it it heightened it, But I mean at the end of the day, that wasn't the core issue. And a lot of questions were coming in that, you know, they have somebody who's struggling with addiction that as in their life and they are every time they try to talk to them. The person is super defensive. So now they're feeling deflated, like is there a kind of like how to or is there any kind of or information that you can share with those out there they're struggling to communicate with that person in their life. That's a very very good question. I think at the end of the day is is people need to get educated on on the disease of addiction, right. I mean, there is no such thing as recreational use of heroin or meth or drinking a bottle of vaka they or you know, snorting whatever it may be, taking a bunch of valume or benzos, whatever, whatever your drug it's choice is. So I think it's understanding. You know, addiction does not dictate who we are, but it does not justify our actions. And I think it's imperative that people approach us and it's like any other disease that you know that this is it's got to come from love. It's got to come you know, with with compassion and understanding, and you know, because it's it's somebody that's gotta wake up every day and utilize one of those drugs to get through their day. Obviously they're in a very bad spot. So I think it's it's really coming from it with with love is a big piece of it. But also, uh, setting boundaries and knowing when you're contributing to to when you're benefiting somebody versus when you're causing more harm, because that's a big factor in this is wherever there's an alcoholic or an addict, there's a codependent, and sometimes they're just as sick, if not sicker, meaning that they you know, like for example, my parents many times kept throwing pillows. They were literally loving me to death when I should have fallen. And you know, again is when I was willing to get support or get help to be able to be there and support me, whether that's your friends, family, whatever it may be. But also when I'm in a place where I'm not wanting to do that. You don't want to enable negative behavior. So how do you know if you're enabling versus actually being helpful. I think it's setting it's clear line boundaries with it is is setting up, and it's it's getting Sometimes you have to get clear cut direction from individuals as well, because that's the thing is this disease is so multifaceted, right that sometimes it's it's imperative you get outside counsel with this, because when you have it, when you're just a mom and a dad trying to play you know, the mother or the father figure to your son or daughter or whatever role it may be, it's outside your scope. It's just like when you're dealing with somebody that has cancer, You're you're you're trying to do as much as you can to get them to the right place right And I think sometimes that's that's the place where it's it's it's if you're a spot when it's that deep and you don't know if you're contributing more harm or good. I would highly advise that you seek outside help to really help you with that. And that's because it's it's they want their mom or dad or whatever the relationship to be, to have that support from that person, not trying to be the professional. Well I had read, um, I think you were arrested something like eighteen times. That accurate a lot, a lot a lot of times. What was your final like actual uh you're breaking point? When were you like I'm done? I mean I know there's been a relapse, but I what was that point? And what do you think is is a way that Yeah, go ahead, I call that my moment of clarity, right where I really identified and surrendered to the disease and that I admitted that I had a problem, that I was willing to get help. Uh. You know, because this for people that don't know my story from you know, the ages of seventeen to years old, I went to fourteen different treatment centers from Florida, Hawaii, every state between, you know, as arrested multiple times. Uh. You know, obviously went through a very public battle with addiction. And what that led me to is is all those times and we can talk about you know, going to those different treatments and all those things. They instill different things along the way, but the biggest thing is that I was not willing or motivated during that time. And what really transitioned is, you know, addiction not only took me to the deaths of contemplating suicide, but actually attempting. So I was at a spot where I had I was not wanting to live any further. Um, and this draw me back into a spot where I was actually in the therapist office yet again with my mom and dad. Um and my parents who play a very pivotal role in our lives. Uh. You know, my dad somebody that I look up to a lot um and I've never seen him break down before, but I'll never forget. In two thousand ten of July, uh you know, he sat there across uh for me and my mom in the therapist and you get just go, look, we don't know what we're gonna do anymore. Um, you know, we're lost. Uh you know, our marriage is suffering. Uh, you know, and we're like two planks of wood waiting for the phone call that you're dead. And like when he said that, when he you know, painted that picture of them waiting, being a lane in beds waiting, you know, like two planks of wood waiting for the phone call and I'm dead. Whatever it was, there was some form of There was just a moment of clarity. Like I said, I was in a spot where I had no motivation to want to do this for myself. And I don't want to sound contradicting, because my parents were the motivating factor for me to have some form of willingness, which translated into me being able to obtain recovery and really surrendering. Um. So that was that moment when I kind of like something click. A light came off on and I said, look, I know I don't care enough about myself to do this, but my parents and family and close friends became my motivating factor. And that's what you know. It's transcended into multiple months of sobriety for that reason. And then over time, after I actively arrested disease, after I got stabilized, uh, and it was really living a life and recovery. It became something that I actually wanted. And that's the thing I think a lot of people that understand is is when somebody is active in their addiction, they don't they lose the right to make their own decisions. They are not thinking correctly. The way that somebody's frontal cortex operates, which is your your executive functioning skills in your brain does not work. And that's why there's got to be a disruption to this process. Whether it's through and you know, intervention, or whether it's people getting arrested or something that's major's got to happen because they're not thinking correctly. And like I said, being I was not in the clear state of mind going to this therapy session. It was really kind of like a come to Jesus if you will, trying to figure out what direction we're going to take. But it was that moment where you know, I saw them being very vulnerable. Uh. And for me it was a Godshop moment because that's that's the moment that changed my life for the better. And I have a lot of younger listeners, and I was overwhelmed with how many people wrote in you know, I'm sick of this person asking me if I'm struggling in addiction. I I love to go and party and I'm just hanging out with chicks and I want to do that. You know, it became like it's this big social thing and they're kind of defensive about it and they're wanting to know how to get these people off their back. But my question is, how do you know if you're in that stage where you're telling yourself, I'm just having fun, I'm parting recreationally that like, no, you you probably have a problem. Well, look, I mean something that I go by is personally is there's no normality and escaping reality. Right. But for those that are out there, because I'm not against people that can enjoy and have recreational use and enjoy it themselves, but I look at it. If if I look at addiction, whether it's drugs, alcohol, sex, gambling, food, whatever it is. If whatever it is you're struggling with is derailing you from your hitting your ultimate goals, that's knocking you off balance of where you want to be in life, it's something to identify with, right And do you think you could even A lot of the time you hear, oh, well, I don't even know what I want to do in life, so this is fine, this suits me for now. You do hear that. But at the end of the day, it's it's you're not giving yourself the best best opportunity to reach your fullest potential when you're under the influence. Uh. And I think again, is is what are you taking? What you know and how often you're using I mean, there's so many different studies and statistics that are out there that you know, doctors are's actually evidence based, you know, things that are coming out today. You can actually take a test to see, you know, I mean, you can take a test to see if you struggle with substance abuse or alcoholism. There's different things out there. Oh there, I didn't even know that. That's amazing. Yes, So what I can do is after this, I'll send you. You know, there's specific there's twelve questions on being an alcoholic. Uh you know if if you struggle with alcoholisms, if you answer, you know four out of these twelve questions, you probably have issues with alcoholism. So I'm more than happy to say please. We will definitely post yes. And then I know that you are are um married and you have a daughter. Now, so congratulations, um I thank you very much. Um So, I have a two partner, but I ask you the first one. First for in regards to parenting, how do you think that you will talk to your daughter in regards to alcohol or drugs or whatever it may be. God, you had to go there, such a loaded question. Well I want to know now for my kids. I'm like, I need to you know. I think it's such an important conversation that we all tiptoe around. I mean I remember like just thinking, okay, I just I don't want to die. I'm scared to try this because I heard this happen to one person, but that was just fear based. But I had no actual knowledge where I have other friends that tried everything because they were like told, oh, it's just like blah blah blah, and then really they're trying you know, meth. All right, Well, so no, I mean that's a it's a great question. And I think from from my perspective and everything that I've gone through and what I've learned, you know, I've got very educated around the disease model of this, and it's both behavior and biology player role into addiction. You know that that classify it as a brain disorder. That's kind of what I've come up with. But I think with that being said, to break that down is the evidence based modalities that we've seen is there's actually studies out there if that if you can actually have somebody stay away from drug use or alcohol use until they're twenty one years old to let their brains you know, almost fully develop, they have a chance of not having addiction issues. So that from what I've learned, I mean, in my household, when Delilah is you know under our roof, I mean, she's not gonna be utilizing you. I'm not gonna be the parents that's gonna let her experiment or do things like that because you know, for me, is with what I've learned today is we have that evidence to show that you know, and that that that time frame. Uh, it's so imperative that we steer clear of that stuff in the potency and the different types of drugs that are out there are there, they're that's so different from even ten years ago. So I mean, the way I'm gonna approach it is let her know. I'll be open and vulnerable, let her know what the struggle is that it runs in our family, um, you know, and I will be very transparent with her to to let her know that this is something that is is that I had to deal with and that it's affected us tremensally. And again it's thank god she's too right now, and I think we're on a spot where're gonna have so much more knowledge and education around this every year that goes on from here. But I mean, the main thing is is there's not gonna be any drugs or alcohol in my house well when she's when she's under our roof, and she could be upset about that, but based on the scientific evidence, I want to give her the best opportunity that she possibly can. And more moreoverly is I want to instill in her that you don't need drugs and alcohol to have fun. I mean, drugs and alcohol robbed me from everything I love. I grew up in the Gouna beach, grew up surfing, skateboarding, snowboarding, wakeboarding, uh, you know, playing baseball, all the things I love. And I stopped doing every single thing when I started using heavily. And you know, I'm out here. I'm sitting in choir right now, you know, And I'm on a surf trip with somebody and stuff, and I mean, I get to embrace life. Like there was a whole crew of us that went out to dinner last night and all of us were sober, and it's just so funny to people watch and just to see what people think is fun. I think there's this a false perception on what is really a reality. You know, I want it is false, it's reality. And in that in that same vein, like is there certain things like okay, I don't I don't know if your wife has a glass of wine, or if you're filming the hills or any of those things. Are there any triggers for you now that you're just like, I need to get out of the situation, or how do you handle that? If you have been triggered great question is you know there there are it's it's the trigger or the obsession to use. It can be very overwhelming. But I basically when I go into a situation, it's like my wife is very mindful, she has a normal She can have a glass of wine, take it or leave it. You know. When we first met, what really drew me to her is how supportive and dedicated she was to helping me in my recovery. Because she literally stopped drinking for over a year to support me in my recovery back in two thousand ten. And that showed her dedication to it. And today she's very mindful. She literally asked still to the say or you know, you know, you're good if I have a glass of wine or you know, and we communicate. Communication is key. But if we go into an environment like I like the hills and going back into relapse, because that's you know, relapses, something that that that happens um and it's something to be mindful of. But it's any time I go into a situation where I know there may be an uncomfortablelity, like for work or different things, I have an exit strategy. You know, I have a couple of guys that I let know of the environment that I'm going into. Uh, And then I you know, I may need, may need to reach out to them, uh, you know. And and I let my wife know. I communicate with her if I'm feeling uncomfortable. And if i get to a spot where I'm really, you know, very uncomfortable, I'll tell my wife we've gotta go. And and your most recent relapse, what do you think was the driving force that you were able to stop again and recommit. Do you think it was the fact that your wife gave you an ultimatum or I don't know what what the case was, but I'm just asking you know, this will well this We'll just give you. This is something that for me is is it was not even related to the obsession of substances or different environments. This is actually something else that I was never privy to and I never really had. I never had an issue with body imaging, if you will. Like I said, growing up, I was always active, athletic, was always in shape to some degree, even when I was in my addiction. They ever got super out of shape. But this time, after I had gotten out of treatment and was sober for you know, a length of six months, you know, six months, uh, you know, I actually had gained a lot of weight from the last time of your body just doesn't you know, as you get older, obviously your system doesn't work as well. And and I had gained a lot of weight, and I was super uncomfortable in my own skin. And you know, every day when you wake up, you know, and you take a shower and get ready, what do you see? You see yourself in the mirror. And I didn't reach out about that. It was something that was new, uh for me, which was imaging stuff and and being you know, bloated and this in a you know, I thought my system would would come back in and obviously being on camera that did not help. That made things very uncomfortable. And as opposed opening up and talking about it, I isolated, and ultimately it took me back to using. And when I use, it was a one day thing. But when I woke up, you know, I sat there with my wife and we had a real conversation about what the issue was, and she understood it, and she she did not you know, she also she understood what was going on, and she in the love and support from her was huge, but it was also like a motivating factors like I need to be able to be there for my daughter, I need to be able to be there for my wife. I need to be an example. Um, you know. And I also know where this takes me. I played the tape out it trust me that the using and drinking for me, it's not fun. Drinking and using used to be. It used to be, uh, you know, fun, It became a lifestyle, and then it became a way of survival. So whenever I use, like if I use drugs or out call, there's no fun left in it. Uh. It's in a spot where it's very dark, isolated, uh, and not wanting to be present. Uh. And the only way I know to be able to deal with that stuff is to identify the issues. That called a triple A modality. It's it's it's awareness accepted in action. If I'm not aware of what's going on, I'm not gonna be able to accept what's happening. And if I don't accept what's happy, and I'm not gonna be able to take take action on it. So I pause in that moment, I really identify what's going on except what I need to do so I can take the appropriate action to better the situation. Well, this is so interesting. Thank you so much. I I mean, I think it's interesting that you brought up the body image issues starting to happen, because that was another big thing that people are wanting to learn about, is different food addiction, body issues and how that can translate into so many different things in our life. So, UM, I thank you for being so vulnerable with us and sharing with us today. And UM, please if you can send in that information for our listeners and regards to if you know, if they're struggling with alcoholism or any of those types of things, that would be amazing. I'm more than happy to thank you for your time. Jason just paired with the Red Songbird Foundation. The foundation just announced its scholarship program that will donate a hundred thousand to it's the treatment of someone with mental health or substance abuse issues. Find out all the info at Beach House Treatment dot com slash Scholarship. Wow, that was such a great conversation and how amazing that both Jason and Cameron said the key to staying sober for them is in the routine meditation exercise. I mean, that's pretty eye opening. Um, but I also wanted to read through those questions that Jason said that you could look through, because I think it would be helpful. Have you ever decided to stop drinking for a week or so but only lasted for a couple of days? Yes? Or no? Do you wish people would mind their own business about your drinking stop telling you what to do? Yes? Or no? Have you ever switched from one kind of drink to another and the hope that this would keep you from getting drunk? Yes? Or no? Have you had to have an eye opener upon a way akening during the past year. Do you drink to get started or to stop shaking? That is a pretty sure sign that you're not drinking socially? Do you envy people who can drink without getting into trouble? Be honest? Doctors say that if you have a problem with alcohol and keep drinking, it will get worse, never better. Eventually you will die or end up in an institution for the rest of your life. The only hope is to stop drinking. Has your drinking cause trouble at home? Do you ever try to get extra drinks at a party because you do not get enough? Do you tell yourself you can stop drinking at any time you want to, even though you keep getting drunk when you don't mean to. Have you missed days of work or school because of drinking? Do you often have blackouts? A blackout is when we have been drinking hours or days which we cannot remember. When we came to a A, we found out that this is a pretty sure sign of alcoholic drinking. Have you ever felt that your life would be better if you did not drink? Many of A started to drink because drinking made life seem better, at least for a while. By the time we got to a A, we felt trapped. We were drinking to live and living to drink. We were sick and tired of being sick and tired. Wow. So I think that that's an important quiz to take. I mean, there's so many different matters we can get into in regards to addiction, from social media addiction to food addiction to sex addiction. Um, please write in whatever it is that you want us to talk about and we will get into it. At Teddy t at I heart radio dot com. Thanks for listening, Thanks for listening. Subscribe to radio or wherever you listen to podcasts.