Hey, everyone, it's Jackie Golschneider and Jennifer Wessler. We are two Jersey Jays. Hi. Guys, Hi, we don't have a guest today, which I kind of love because I kind of love just like talking to you. I do too.

Hey, everyone, it's Jackie Golschneider and Jennifer Wessler. We are two Jersey Jays. Hi. Guys, Hi, we don't have a guest today, which I kind of love because I kind of love just like talking to you. I do too.

I kind of like having just this back and forth, you know. I also obviously we both love having guests. We have actually some really cool ones. Yeah, wind up, Yes we do.

I kind of like having just this back and forth, you know. I also obviously we both love having guests. We have actually some really cool ones. Yeah, wind up, Yes we do.

Today it's just us. Yeah, and it's a really it's an interesting topic, Greed agreed, a topic that both of us actually have a lot of things to say about. So today's topic is family relationships, and I think a big part of that is estrangement sometimes unfortunately, that is a big part of it on our show right now, without going into any detail, there's a lot of family estrangements.

Today it's just us. Yeah, and it's a really it's an interesting topic, Greed agreed, a topic that both of us actually have a lot of things to say about. So today's topic is family relationships, and I think a big part of that is estrangement sometimes unfortunately, that is a big part of it on our show right now, without going into any detail, there's a lot of family estrangements.

Yes, unfortunately, And you know, I've had some estrangements within my family. I still actually do, not personally, but family members. I think it's just really really difficult. Sometimes it's for the best, other times not so much. But you know, I think that it's something that most people have either dealt with or have had loved ones deal with, you know.

Yes, unfortunately, And you know, I've had some estrangements within my family. I still actually do, not personally, but family members. I think it's just really really difficult. Sometimes it's for the best, other times not so much. But you know, I think that it's something that most people have either dealt with or have had loved ones deal with, you know.

And it's funny that you say that because when I so, I have like a very specific family estrangement that has always I don't know, I waver between it bothering me and it not bothering me. But I always kind of felt like I was the only person. And now I see how common it is, But for a long time, I always felt like, why does everybody else get a perfect family unit and mine is so dub Not that my family is stup, but this relationship is so like far gone, but I always felt like nobody else has to deal with this, well except for me.

And it's funny that you say that because when I so, I have like a very specific family estrangement that has always I don't know, I waver between it bothering me and it not bothering me. But I always kind of felt like I was the only person. And now I see how common it is, But for a long time, I always felt like, why does everybody else get a perfect family unit and mine is so dub Not that my family is stup, but this relationship is so like far gone, but I always felt like nobody else has to deal with this, well except for me.

Both just did an article about family estrangements and there's apparently there's a no contact family hashtag and it's garnered just millions of views. So according to Psychology Today, at least one in four people actually experience estrangements, which seems like a huge number to me.

Both just did an article about family estrangements and there's apparently there's a no contact family hashtag and it's garnered just millions of views. So according to Psychology Today, at least one in four people actually experience estrangements, which seems like a huge number to me.

Well, it doesn't seem that huge to me because in my family, and like my parents are very nice people, my mother is estranged from her sister. My father was estranged from his brother for twenty years before his brother died, and I have always since as far back as I can remember, I've been a strange from my sister. Well, start talking, Oh, way to talk about it. No, no, no, So tell me. You know, here's the difficulty. Before I go into the I'm not going to really go out of respect for my sister, I will not go into like specifics of what you know has happened over the years, but like there's never been a relationship there. So there's been aggression, there's been fighting because there's no respect or love there. I think that would almost make it easier, right, Yeah, I mean it's not hard for me on a daily basis. I don't care. What's hard for me is knowing that I have a living blood sister who lives in the same state as me that I have no relationship with. It's very strange to me that my children don't know her. They couldn't pick her out of a lineup. Wow, it's weird to me, you know, And I think that's what bothers me is more like the idea of it, not that I actually want a relationship with her. And you have nieces and nephews are yeah, who I love who I'm very relationship with them. Yes, do you have a very long story, but she doesn't have one with yours. So my which we started at the beginning. Yeah, let's let's start at the start. So you know, I never had a relationship with my sister. She's five years older than me. Growing up, she really wanted nothing to do with me. I have to believe it's her, because how do you hate a five year old? You know, so she she I had nothing to do and they wanted nothing to do with you, Like where was your mom? And this just never played with you. Didn't help much older My parents worked full time and I had a disabled brother, so I still have a disabled brother. No that how much older is your sister? Five years? Okay, so nobody had time for this, like like fighting sisters nonsense, Like my parents had all because you thought that much because we were so far apart in age. It wasn't even that we would fight. It was I felt from my perspective, it was that I was like she was just like torture me, Like it was hell yeah, and like the few times that my parents left her to babysit me, like it just wasn't good at all. And then when I was thirteen, we moved and she was eighteen, she moved out, so like my parents got our condo just to get her the fuck out of the house and that was it. We've hardly seen each other since, so there wasn't a big blowout. It was just we're not close. We never have been close. We just don't like each other. Blowout because but there was never good times. There was only blowout, so like there was no contact and then she'd have a fight with my parents and stick me in the middle of that fight. Now we did have a fight, my mom would try to get us together, and then the fights would be even more explosive because it always ended in a fight, and I just it just never worked. So there's the part of me that so I gave up a few years ago, not interested anymore. Wasn't good for me, wasn't good for my husband, wasn't good for our family, And I don't there's nothing to miss, you know, it's just weird to me. It feels weird. And here's what feels weirder is that society tells you that you can never give up on family, and for a long time that made me feel like I was giving up too easily. And so every few months I would send a text message or I would be like, do you want to try? Do you want to meet for lunch? Do you want to and then it just would never go anywhere, and I felt very conflicted, like how much how do you balance this message from society that you have to keep trying, that you don't give up on family with this feeling that something is just not good for you or a relationship adds nothing to your life.

Well, it doesn't seem that huge to me because in my family, and like my parents are very nice people, my mother is estranged from her sister. My father was estranged from his brother for twenty years before his brother died, and I have always since as far back as I can remember, I've been a strange from my sister. Well, start talking, Oh, way to talk about it. No, no, no, So tell me. You know, here's the difficulty. Before I go into the I'm not going to really go out of respect for my sister, I will not go into like specifics of what you know has happened over the years, but like there's never been a relationship there. So there's been aggression, there's been fighting because there's no respect or love there. I think that would almost make it easier, right, Yeah, I mean it's not hard for me on a daily basis. I don't care. What's hard for me is knowing that I have a living blood sister who lives in the same state as me that I have no relationship with. It's very strange to me that my children don't know her. They couldn't pick her out of a lineup. Wow, it's weird to me, you know, And I think that's what bothers me is more like the idea of it, not that I actually want a relationship with her. And you have nieces and nephews are yeah, who I love who I'm very relationship with them. Yes, do you have a very long story, but she doesn't have one with yours. So my which we started at the beginning. Yeah, let's let's start at the start. So you know, I never had a relationship with my sister. She's five years older than me. Growing up, she really wanted nothing to do with me. I have to believe it's her, because how do you hate a five year old? You know, so she she I had nothing to do and they wanted nothing to do with you, Like where was your mom? And this just never played with you. Didn't help much older My parents worked full time and I had a disabled brother, so I still have a disabled brother. No that how much older is your sister? Five years? Okay, so nobody had time for this, like like fighting sisters nonsense, Like my parents had all because you thought that much because we were so far apart in age. It wasn't even that we would fight. It was I felt from my perspective, it was that I was like she was just like torture me, Like it was hell yeah, and like the few times that my parents left her to babysit me, like it just wasn't good at all. And then when I was thirteen, we moved and she was eighteen, she moved out, so like my parents got our condo just to get her the fuck out of the house and that was it. We've hardly seen each other since, so there wasn't a big blowout. It was just we're not close. We never have been close. We just don't like each other. Blowout because but there was never good times. There was only blowout, so like there was no contact and then she'd have a fight with my parents and stick me in the middle of that fight. Now we did have a fight, my mom would try to get us together, and then the fights would be even more explosive because it always ended in a fight, and I just it just never worked. So there's the part of me that so I gave up a few years ago, not interested anymore. Wasn't good for me, wasn't good for my husband, wasn't good for our family, And I don't there's nothing to miss, you know, it's just weird to me. It feels weird. And here's what feels weirder is that society tells you that you can never give up on family, and for a long time that made me feel like I was giving up too easily. And so every few months I would send a text message or I would be like, do you want to try? Do you want to meet for lunch? Do you want to and then it just would never go anywhere, and I felt very conflicted, like how much how do you balance this message from society that you have to keep trying, that you don't give up on family with this feeling that something is just not good for you or a relationship adds nothing to your life.

And it was Yeah, I feel like that narrative, though, has changed. I feel like there's so much that I see on social media about you know, being you know, friends or chosen family, or when something's toxic, how to walk away from it, including family. I feel like I see more and more of that. You don't see that, yes.

And it was Yeah, I feel like that narrative, though, has changed. I feel like there's so much that I see on social media about you know, being you know, friends or chosen family, or when something's toxic, how to walk away from it, including family. I feel like I see more and more of that. You don't see that, yes.

I do, but I think when it's your life and you see how it interferes with your family dynamic, Like, look, I'm for forty seven years old. My life is pretty solid without the relationship with my sister in it. But I do feel very I'm very aware of the fact that my original family, not the family I have now. We are never in the same room together, except if it's like a huge occasion like someone's born mitzvah or something, and then there's no contact between us. But we're in the same room, but we never have family. It's interesting to me that.

I do, but I think when it's your life and you see how it interferes with your family dynamic, Like, look, I'm for forty seven years old. My life is pretty solid without the relationship with my sister in it. But I do feel very I'm very aware of the fact that my original family, not the family I have now. We are never in the same room together, except if it's like a huge occasion like someone's born mitzvah or something, and then there's no contact between us. But we're in the same room, but we never have family. It's interesting to me that.

So my experience with family estrangement has not been well. Depends what you define as long term, right, Like I've gone a year without speaking to my sister. I've gone a year without speaking to a cousin who I'm very very very close to, even estrangement. Not speaking to one of my parents for months. Is that a strangement or is that just a I don't know.

So my experience with family estrangement has not been well. Depends what you define as long term, right, Like I've gone a year without speaking to my sister. I've gone a year without speaking to a cousin who I'm very very very close to, even estrangement. Not speaking to one of my parents for months. Is that a strangement or is that just a I don't know.

That's a break.

That's a break.

But it's interesting to me because nothing specifically happened between you and your sister. I can't imagine that both of you haven't grown and evolved and changed, and yet you're both nobody is like you're You're just don't feel like you even have a yearning to talk to her or have her be part of your life. And I think that maybe because you have never been closed my periods of estrangement. For instance, with my sister, I want to say, maybe over a year we didn't speak. I don't know what's kid considered. I mean, at that point, did I say we were estranged?

But it's interesting to me because nothing specifically happened between you and your sister. I can't imagine that both of you haven't grown and evolved and changed, and yet you're both nobody is like you're You're just don't feel like you even have a yearning to talk to her or have her be part of your life. And I think that maybe because you have never been closed my periods of estrangement. For instance, with my sister, I want to say, maybe over a year we didn't speak. I don't know what's kid considered. I mean, at that point, did I say we were estranged?

Maybe?

Maybe?

I don't with the dictionary what the definition of estrangement is, but it I was so angry and she was so angry. Do you want to talk about It's hard. This is hard because I don't really but I can. I can tell you that we were always so Robin and I my sister were fourteen months apart, so I am older, and I would growing up, I would terrorize her by and we'd laugh about it. Now, you know. My mom would leave us together and I'd be like, this is a line, and I'd draw some imaginary line down the living room. If you cross it, I will beat the shit out of you or whatever it was. And we were also best friends and both right, but we were fighting and calling each other horrible names. And that was just the nature of it, right, two girls growing up in the same house, and as we got older, no one could say anything to me that would get under my skin as much as my sister, and I think that's I know that that's true for her as well.

I don't with the dictionary what the definition of estrangement is, but it I was so angry and she was so angry. Do you want to talk about It's hard. This is hard because I don't really but I can. I can tell you that we were always so Robin and I my sister were fourteen months apart, so I am older, and I would growing up, I would terrorize her by and we'd laugh about it. Now, you know. My mom would leave us together and I'd be like, this is a line, and I'd draw some imaginary line down the living room. If you cross it, I will beat the shit out of you or whatever it was. And we were also best friends and both right, but we were fighting and calling each other horrible names. And that was just the nature of it, right, two girls growing up in the same house, and as we got older, no one could say anything to me that would get under my skin as much as my sister, and I think that's I know that that's true for her as well.

Right, We could really.

Right, We could really.

Just just strike a chord with each other anyway. We've certainly had our share of fights. We don't really anymore, thankfully, But whatever happened, and we didn't speak for a year, and I just remember it being as much as I tried to deny it, and I would say to my mom specifically because she was so torn up about it right, and I'm going to die one day and you're not going to have each other. And I would say to her, I don't miss her, I don't care, I don't like her. It's my life is complete and I don't meet her in it. And I was lying not only to my mom, I was lying to myself because it was just this weight that I carried around. And so, probably over a year into our quote unquote estrangement, I got a call from her I'll never forget it, one morning and crying and something had happened and she said, I need my sister and that was it done over, never to be estranged again.

Just just strike a chord with each other anyway. We've certainly had our share of fights. We don't really anymore, thankfully, But whatever happened, and we didn't speak for a year, and I just remember it being as much as I tried to deny it, and I would say to my mom specifically because she was so torn up about it right, and I'm going to die one day and you're not going to have each other. And I would say to her, I don't miss her, I don't care, I don't like her. It's my life is complete and I don't meet her in it. And I was lying not only to my mom, I was lying to myself because it was just this weight that I carried around. And so, probably over a year into our quote unquote estrangement, I got a call from her I'll never forget it, one morning and crying and something had happened and she said, I need my sister and that was it done over, never to be estranged again.

That's that's it's amazing. And it makes me sad. I know it's sorry. No, no, no, it just makes me sad, not not because of my sister specifically, but because of the idea that people do find their way past this. I'll tell you the very big thing, and this is this is the big difference. And this is going to sound very harsh, but it's true. Well we do true, So go okay. My sister and I don't love each other. And it sounds very harsh because we're in the same family, but we've never loved each other, like I would she say that as well? How she said it? Oh yeah, she can't stand me, which has to do with the idea of me. Listen, I'm not everyone's cup of tea, but like, she doesn't even know me. I haven't been in a room with her. And how do you think she watches the show? I think the first few seasons now, Listen, she participated in the first season. I remember that of the show, but grudgingly she wouldn't allow so we did this scene where we talked on the phone. I remember that we used to toy around every once in a while with making up, and then it would turn into like an explosive meltdown and like everything would just fall apart. And I would try. I really did. I would try. I know, I know on my end that I tried, And maybe that's why I don't feel guilty about anything, because I did try. But she wouldn't let them use her voice, so it sounded like I was making a fake phone call because she didn't want her voice on camera. I never wanted her name on camera, didn't want her picture, and that's fine, and I had to respect that, and you know, it just never went anywhere. Nothing ever went anywhere. So it wasn't a big I mean, we've had some big, explosive fights, but it wasn't like one penultimate kind of that led to an estrangement. It was just always. I mean, I do think that my parents made no secret of kind of favoring me. When I was younger. I was such a tightwad. I wanted to do everything perfectly. I graduated sumacom laud from college. I went to a top twenty five law school. I landed a huge corporate job. You know, I was a mergers and acquisitions attorney, like at twenty four years old, killing it.

That's that's it's amazing. And it makes me sad. I know it's sorry. No, no, no, it just makes me sad, not not because of my sister specifically, but because of the idea that people do find their way past this. I'll tell you the very big thing, and this is this is the big difference. And this is going to sound very harsh, but it's true. Well we do true, So go okay. My sister and I don't love each other. And it sounds very harsh because we're in the same family, but we've never loved each other, like I would she say that as well? How she said it? Oh yeah, she can't stand me, which has to do with the idea of me. Listen, I'm not everyone's cup of tea, but like, she doesn't even know me. I haven't been in a room with her. And how do you think she watches the show? I think the first few seasons now, Listen, she participated in the first season. I remember that of the show, but grudgingly she wouldn't allow so we did this scene where we talked on the phone. I remember that we used to toy around every once in a while with making up, and then it would turn into like an explosive meltdown and like everything would just fall apart. And I would try. I really did. I would try. I know, I know on my end that I tried, And maybe that's why I don't feel guilty about anything, because I did try. But she wouldn't let them use her voice, so it sounded like I was making a fake phone call because she didn't want her voice on camera. I never wanted her name on camera, didn't want her picture, and that's fine, and I had to respect that, and you know, it just never went anywhere. Nothing ever went anywhere. So it wasn't a big I mean, we've had some big, explosive fights, but it wasn't like one penultimate kind of that led to an estrangement. It was just always. I mean, I do think that my parents made no secret of kind of favoring me. When I was younger. I was such a tightwad. I wanted to do everything perfectly. I graduated sumacom laud from college. I went to a top twenty five law school. I landed a huge corporate job. You know, I was a mergers and acquisitions attorney, like at twenty four years old, killing it.

And I mean, it's so interesting because I don't want to you know, I don't want to head into a different direction right now, but like we've got to cover that at some point my past life. Like you're a housewipe of New Jersey from a merger's acquisitions attorney.

And I mean, it's so interesting because I don't want to you know, I don't want to head into a different direction right now, but like we've got to cover that at some point my past life. Like you're a housewipe of New Jersey from a merger's acquisitions attorney.

That was. That was a hoot. That was so I'll tell you the story of that one day.

That was. That was a hoot. That was so I'll tell you the story of that one day.

But I mean, like my mother would like, you know, stand on a table and scream, my daughter's a lawyer.

But I mean, like my mother would like, you know, stand on a table and scream, my daughter's a lawyer.

You know, che is really like you wish mother. She was so proud and like that. You know, my sister didn't go to college. She wasn't interested, and that's fine too, but like she wasn't she didn't have like much of a work ethic or drive, And I think it was hard to Your parents are so proud of your sibling, and yeah, they favor your siblings. And I think she always that's kind of hated the idea of me. It can't be me because I've never had anything to do with her. She doesn't like the idea of me, and and that's okay, but it's only did.

You know, che is really like you wish mother. She was so proud and like that. You know, my sister didn't go to college. She wasn't interested, and that's fine too, but like she wasn't she didn't have like much of a work ethic or drive, And I think it was hard to Your parents are so proud of your sibling, and yeah, they favor your siblings. And I think she always that's kind of hated the idea of me. It can't be me because I've never had anything to do with her. She doesn't like the idea of me, and and that's okay, but it's only did.

You like her at all? Like did you? I know you say you're saying I wanted to. I really wanted to about her that you enjoyed.

You like her at all? Like did you? I know you say you're saying I wanted to. I really wanted to about her that you enjoyed.

Did you ever have fun together? Did you ever together? No? We were never together, like a few family vacations growing up, And she was very distant from me. She was never super social and like really had nothing to do with me. Now close do you guys live now? She lives about an hour away. Yeah, but I am very close to their kids. My mother made sure of that. So her kids are much older than my not much older, but they're all adults now, so and I adore them and they're wonderful kids.

Did you ever have fun together? Did you ever together? No? We were never together, like a few family vacations growing up, And she was very distant from me. She was never super social and like really had nothing to do with me. Now close do you guys live now? She lives about an hour away. Yeah, but I am very close to their kids. My mother made sure of that. So her kids are much older than my not much older, but they're all adults now, so and I adore them and they're wonderful kids.

Wow, And why don't her why don't Why doesn't she have relationships with your kids?

Wow, And why don't her why don't Why doesn't she have relationships with your kids?

So, my mother was very involved with my sister's kids and not as involved with my kids, meaning like she lived with my sister and helped her take care of them. So she would always bring my sister's kids to my house. Got it. My kids and me were not welcome in my sister's house, so we never went there. Your sister didn't allow your kids in her house. No, we've been there like one time. Yeah, here without you. Yeah, they've only been there like once, I think, yeah, for a July fourth party. I know. But it's okay, Listen, she's not She's only shit to me. Other people lover you know so, and she is wonderful to my brother. We all are. We all take care of my brother. So, but you know, it was really only in recent years that I was like, you know what, I have to be authentic to myself and I don't think this relationship is good for me, and I'm not going to try anymore.

So, my mother was very involved with my sister's kids and not as involved with my kids, meaning like she lived with my sister and helped her take care of them. So she would always bring my sister's kids to my house. Got it. My kids and me were not welcome in my sister's house, so we never went there. Your sister didn't allow your kids in her house. No, we've been there like one time. Yeah, here without you. Yeah, they've only been there like once, I think, yeah, for a July fourth party. I know. But it's okay, Listen, she's not She's only shit to me. Other people lover you know so, and she is wonderful to my brother. We all are. We all take care of my brother. So, but you know, it was really only in recent years that I was like, you know what, I have to be authentic to myself and I don't think this relationship is good for me, and I'm not going to try anymore.

Listen, at the end of the day, I suppose what matters is that you're happy and you are Oh yeah, I.

Listen, at the end of the day, I suppose what matters is that you're happy and you are Oh yeah, I.

Don't think about it. On in theaterday. So I'm saying, like, it shouldn't you shouldn't. I guess you shouldn't end an estrangement because you think that it's weird or if your life is full without that person. The person's only, you know, bringing you sadness and anger. She doesn't bring me sad she worrett touch nothing she brings. She brings nothing. And I you know, they have these like, you know, made up Facebook holidays where they're like Sister Day, you know, and just I'm like, my feet is flooded with people saying, oh God, God gives you an angel on earth and it's your sister, you know. And I'm always my sister and I are not angels on from it.

Don't think about it. On in theaterday. So I'm saying, like, it shouldn't you shouldn't. I guess you shouldn't end an estrangement because you think that it's weird or if your life is full without that person. The person's only, you know, bringing you sadness and anger. She doesn't bring me sad she worrett touch nothing she brings. She brings nothing. And I you know, they have these like, you know, made up Facebook holidays where they're like Sister Day, you know, and just I'm like, my feet is flooded with people saying, oh God, God gives you an angel on earth and it's your sister, you know. And I'm always my sister and I are not angels on from it.

But I'll be like reading this shit and I'll be like, how come everybody else gets a great sister. I have a sister, a half sister. I have actually three half siblings, okay, and my half sister is younger than my daughter. And yeah, that's what's your relationship podcast. I mean, we don't really have one. She I've only met her a few times. She lives in another state, and I don't want to talk too much about this, but so I don't know her. Well, it's it's bizarre.

But I'll be like reading this shit and I'll be like, how come everybody else gets a great sister. I have a sister, a half sister. I have actually three half siblings, okay, and my half sister is younger than my daughter. And yeah, that's what's your relationship podcast. I mean, we don't really have one. She I've only met her a few times. She lives in another state, and I don't want to talk too much about this, but so I don't know her. Well, it's it's bizarre.

And you know, while she was growing up and my dad was calling to tell me that she got a green belt in karate, I was like, so did your granddaughter?

And you know, while she was growing up and my dad was calling to tell me that she got a green belt in karate, I was like, so did your granddaughter?

You know?

You know?

So it's it was just strange and only was good things for her. It's just it's been is a very unique circumstance.

So it's it was just strange and only was good things for her. It's just it's been is a very unique circumstance.

Does she live close? No, No, she doesn't. You have three half siblings. I have three half siblings. Okay, so do they all have the same mom?

Does she live close? No, No, she doesn't. You have three half siblings. I have three half siblings. Okay, so do they all have the same mom?

Noh, so my sister and I have the same mother and father, my old sister whoever you want to say that, and the other three half siblings all have the same father as I do. Yeah, but you know, I've been through periods of estrangement from my father. I've been, as I've mentioned before, my one of besides my sister, the hardest strangements that I've dealt with has been with a cousin and we didn't speak for a year and a half, which, again I don't know what that qualifies, but it's for me, it felt like that over politics. Really, yes, And I look back at it now and I can't believe that we got to that point and that was a situation like my sister, but with my cousin where it was brutal. I missed her every day. You know my sister too. But my sister and I were arguing over personal issues and I was so this was so we said things that were hurtful to each other. And as soon as I picked up the phone, it was her birthday, and I was just I couldn't do it anymore. I picked up the birthday, I picked up the birthday, I picked up the phone and I called her on her birthday and immediately it was over within two seconds.

Noh, so my sister and I have the same mother and father, my old sister whoever you want to say that, and the other three half siblings all have the same father as I do. Yeah, but you know, I've been through periods of estrangement from my father. I've been, as I've mentioned before, my one of besides my sister, the hardest strangements that I've dealt with has been with a cousin and we didn't speak for a year and a half, which, again I don't know what that qualifies, but it's for me, it felt like that over politics. Really, yes, And I look back at it now and I can't believe that we got to that point and that was a situation like my sister, but with my cousin where it was brutal. I missed her every day. You know my sister too. But my sister and I were arguing over personal issues and I was so this was so we said things that were hurtful to each other. And as soon as I picked up the phone, it was her birthday, and I was just I couldn't do it anymore. I picked up the birthday, I picked up the birthday, I picked up the phone and I called her on her birthday and immediately it was over within two seconds.

You know. Yeah, well that's because there was a foundation. Yes, there's lots, that's true.

You know. Yeah, well that's because there was a foundation. Yes, there's lots, that's true.

I guess that's the different And we also people get a strange not just for the reason that they were never close or that they had a fight. It's because relationships are toxic or you know, somebody's abusive, right, And it doesn't mean the other person is toxic, it's just that relationship that's toxic.

I guess that's the different And we also people get a strange not just for the reason that they were never close or that they had a fight. It's because relationships are toxic or you know, somebody's abusive, right, And it doesn't mean the other person is toxic, it's just that relationship that's toxic.

Now, let me just preface all of this by saying that, like, I don't want to take my part out of it. I do feel like I've tried over the years, but when we have fought, I've also played my part. So that's one thing I'm not going to absolve myself. I so like I have gotten when we have fought, I have gotten nasty myself.

Now, let me just preface all of this by saying that, like, I don't want to take my part out of it. I do feel like I've tried over the years, but when we have fought, I've also played my part. So that's one thing I'm not going to absolve myself. I so like I have gotten when we have fought, I have gotten nasty myself.

She listens to the podcast, which sounds she probably doesn't. I'm a real fucking softy. So if she does, and if she called me, I promise you like our fight would end, it will never happen. It will never happen. I've been It's been forty years of like efforts and like nothing. I don't even know that I wanted anymore. But is she called, she will But if she did, if she did, yeah, but she's not going to I guess never going to happen. I just I think it's interesting and I do you know, it's so funny in the past few years. I know, I talk about recovery a lot, but like my mindset on a lot of things has changed. I know a lot of people we're not going to talk about the show. A lot of people think that I have very like different reasons for my relationships shifting. It's really that I'm in a place where I know what feels good to me and what doesn't, and I don't care what anyone else thinks. I'm going to do what authentically feels good for me. If you want to.

She listens to the podcast, which sounds she probably doesn't. I'm a real fucking softy. So if she does, and if she called me, I promise you like our fight would end, it will never happen. It will never happen. I've been It's been forty years of like efforts and like nothing. I don't even know that I wanted anymore. But is she called, she will But if she did, if she did, yeah, but she's not going to I guess never going to happen. I just I think it's interesting and I do you know, it's so funny in the past few years. I know, I talk about recovery a lot, but like my mindset on a lot of things has changed. I know a lot of people we're not going to talk about the show. A lot of people think that I have very like different reasons for my relationships shifting. It's really that I'm in a place where I know what feels good to me and what doesn't, and I don't care what anyone else thinks. I'm going to do what authentically feels good for me. If you want to.

Assign different reasons to it, that's fine. That's what these shows are for, so that people can have an opinion and talk about it. Right But I know that I am doing things that feel authentically good to me, and right now, I'm not interested in trying anymore, which is very hard because, like I said, society tells you family over everything. It's different also your relationships on the show, they're friendships, and there's a big difference. It feels very different from me when I've been a strange from friends, and I am a strange from friends, not many of them, but a couple in terms of my life, as opposed to being a strange from family and the estrangements I've had from family. It's they've played on me, right, They're like always with me. It's like even when everything feels great, there's a loss. When everything feels there's a loss.

Assign different reasons to it, that's fine. That's what these shows are for, so that people can have an opinion and talk about it. Right But I know that I am doing things that feel authentically good to me, and right now, I'm not interested in trying anymore, which is very hard because, like I said, society tells you family over everything. It's different also your relationships on the show, they're friendships, and there's a big difference. It feels very different from me when I've been a strange from friends, and I am a strange from friends, not many of them, but a couple in terms of my life, as opposed to being a strange from family and the estrangements I've had from family. It's they've played on me, right, They're like always with me. It's like even when everything feels great, there's a loss. When everything feels there's a loss.

And I don't know if that is about blood, and I don't think that everyone feels that way. I think there's there are abusive family relationships that people are not only smart to get rid of, but also feel probably simply relief, but the relationships that I've had in terms of friendships that are now estranged, they don't play on me, you know. There of course, there might be moments of sadness or moments of anger, or moments of you know, sentimentality looking back. But the family, the family ones, they were just with me. I felt it all the time, different from you and your sister.

And I don't know if that is about blood, and I don't think that everyone feels that way. I think there's there are abusive family relationships that people are not only smart to get rid of, but also feel probably simply relief, but the relationships that I've had in terms of friendships that are now estranged, they don't play on me, you know. There of course, there might be moments of sadness or moments of anger, or moments of you know, sentimentality looking back. But the family, the family ones, they were just with me. I felt it all the time, different from you and your sister.

Right because because I said, like the foundation that was there. But then I look at the other relationships in my life, in my family, it's the only one. So like say, like on our show, there's many many estrangements, and like if you are estranged from everyone in your family and everyone in your spouse's family, then maybe it's you with me. I couldn't be closer to my mother like we are. We love each other so much. I couldn't be closer to my father. I adore him. They have their faults, so do I.

Right because because I said, like the foundation that was there. But then I look at the other relationships in my life, in my family, it's the only one. So like say, like on our show, there's many many estrangements, and like if you are estranged from everyone in your family and everyone in your spouse's family, then maybe it's you with me. I couldn't be closer to my mother like we are. We love each other so much. I couldn't be closer to my father. I adore him. They have their faults, so do I.

But why don't the anybody thinks that it looks at an estrange when it thinks it's your fault. There's it takes two to tango, Like I don't, yeah, I don't. I don't, you know. I wouldn't think to myself, well, there's something wrong with Jackie you know clearly there's something wrong, you.

But why don't the anybody thinks that it looks at an estrange when it thinks it's your fault. There's it takes two to tango, Like I don't, yeah, I don't. I don't, you know. I wouldn't think to myself, well, there's something wrong with Jackie you know clearly there's something wrong, you.

Know, you really do because of this message that society tells you. So but what would you so, What's what's your take on the never give up messaging? You know, like, at a certain point do you give up?

Know, you really do because of this message that society tells you. So but what would you so, What's what's your take on the never give up messaging? You know, like, at a certain point do you give up?

Well, so, when my sister and I didn't speak, my mother certainly did not give up. So it sounds like your parents have resolved the recently.

Well, so, when my sister and I didn't speak, my mother certainly did not give up. So it sounds like your parents have resolved the recently.

Yes, For many, many years, they would tell me Jackie, just apologized to her and let it be over. And I'd say, first of all, I don't even know what I'm apologizing for. But second of all, it won't be over because tomorrow there'll be something new that I have to apologize for. So I don't. I don't know what you are, what you expect to happen, you know, I don't, But I feel bad. I feel sad for them.

Yes, For many, many years, they would tell me Jackie, just apologized to her and let it be over. And I'd say, first of all, I don't even know what I'm apologizing for. But second of all, it won't be over because tomorrow there'll be something new that I have to apologize for. So I don't. I don't know what you are, what you expect to happen, you know, I don't, But I feel bad. I feel sad for them.

Well, I don't. I don't think that every family estrangement should be resolved. I don't think that just because it's blood you should absolutely fix it.

Well, I don't. I don't think that every family estrangement should be resolved. I don't think that just because it's blood you should absolutely fix it.

I don't.

I don't.

I don't think that life is short and if it is taking away from the quality of your life and you know, causing heartbreak, then better off estranged, Right, I would if my kids, let's say were estranged. They ever are a strange It would absolutely break my heart. And I don't see a scenario where I wouldn't keep trying to fix it.

I don't think that life is short and if it is taking away from the quality of your life and you know, causing heartbreak, then better off estranged, Right, I would if my kids, let's say were estranged. They ever are a strange It would absolutely break my heart. And I don't see a scenario where I wouldn't keep trying to fix it.

I guess that's that's the thing I can't imagine. So my four children are well, they're very close in age. I had four kids under the age of three. I fear in diapers in my house. That's that's another episode. Wow. But they're all very close now granted they're all teenagers now, they all have their own lives, but they love each other so much. And I can't imagine how hard it must be to watch your children completely split off from each other. But at the same time, my sister has a beautiful life. She has four healthy, smart children. She's married to the same person since nineteen ninety eight. Like, she's she's fine, you know, she's I don't know if she's happy. I have nothing to do with her, but she seems fine. Yeah, I don't feel sad for her. Yeah, feels sad for her parents.

I guess that's that's the thing I can't imagine. So my four children are well, they're very close in age. I had four kids under the age of three. I fear in diapers in my house. That's that's another episode. Wow. But they're all very close now granted they're all teenagers now, they all have their own lives, but they love each other so much. And I can't imagine how hard it must be to watch your children completely split off from each other. But at the same time, my sister has a beautiful life. She has four healthy, smart children. She's married to the same person since nineteen ninety eight. Like, she's she's fine, you know, she's I don't know if she's happy. I have nothing to do with her, but she seems fine. Yeah, I don't feel sad for her. Yeah, feels sad for her parents.

There was a time this is like his were never estranged. They're very very close. But I remember they were young and Rachel said something nasty to my son and actually it's funny because he took this bottle of saracha sauce and he pounded. He was so frustrated because growing up, Rachel was just a terror and my son Zach was just always sweet and easy. But we were all just like we'd say, we'd like tiptoe around Rachel. She grew up and she's way different now and we laugh about it. But so she was just or she was just would just torment him. And he took this bottle of sarracha and he slammed it on the kitchen table and I got all over the ceiling and he ran outside. He was so upset, and I of course ran after him and he was crying. He's like, Mom, I'm not crying because I care for me. I care for you because I'm just letting you know right now that when I grow up, I'm never speaking to her again. And I feel better. I feel that he's so cute. So he was always like so like sort of sensitive like that. And we left the sarracha on for years on the ceiling, Yes we did, and.

There was a time this is like his were never estranged. They're very very close. But I remember they were young and Rachel said something nasty to my son and actually it's funny because he took this bottle of saracha sauce and he pounded. He was so frustrated because growing up, Rachel was just a terror and my son Zach was just always sweet and easy. But we were all just like we'd say, we'd like tiptoe around Rachel. She grew up and she's way different now and we laugh about it. But so she was just or she was just would just torment him. And he took this bottle of sarracha and he slammed it on the kitchen table and I got all over the ceiling and he ran outside. He was so upset, and I of course ran after him and he was crying. He's like, Mom, I'm not crying because I care for me. I care for you because I'm just letting you know right now that when I grow up, I'm never speaking to her again. And I feel better. I feel that he's so cute. So he was always like so like sort of sensitive like that. And we left the sarracha on for years on the ceiling, Yes we did, and.

Not in this house. Yes, in this house we had it.

Not in this house. Yes, in this house we had it.

I mean in the kitchen painted I don't know, like three years ago maybe we've been here for thirteen I don't know, but I don't know what we were trying. Why we left it was from what it symbolized exactly, but we almost just laughed about it.

I mean in the kitchen painted I don't know, like three years ago maybe we've been here for thirteen I don't know, but I don't know what we were trying. Why we left it was from what it symbolized exactly, but we almost just laughed about it.

You would look at it. Yeah, in my old thought, this is totally off topic. But in my old house. We moved to one house in ten a flight before we moved to our new house, but we had a really like a double length ceiling whatever you call it when you walk in, and we took our kids when they were like a year old to see Sesame Street live and they brought home an Elma balloon and it floated up to the.

You would look at it. Yeah, in my old thought, this is totally off topic. But in my old house. We moved to one house in ten a flight before we moved to our new house, but we had a really like a double length ceiling whatever you call it when you walk in, and we took our kids when they were like a year old to see Sesame Street live and they brought home an Elma balloon and it floated up to the.

Top and we left it there for years because what we were going to do right, But every time we'd look at.

Top and we left it there for years because what we were going to do right, But every time we'd look at.

It, we just laughed. We've been there for so long, and like no one even noticed it.

It, we just laughed. We've been there for so long, and like no one even noticed it.

But when people did, they'd be like, you know, you have an elbow out there because it's a beautiful house.

But when people did, they'd be like, you know, you have an elbow out there because it's a beautiful house.

And then like a big floating at holmohad pies of heliing some good alia it did. It just stayed.

And then like a big floating at holmohad pies of heliing some good alia it did. It just stayed.

Yeah, but we left it up there and laughed about it, and you know, I knew it was coming from a child's perspective obviously, but picturing it now, I just it would break my heart. And I think there's just also something about, Okay, now we're going to get a little deep, but mortality, right, And I think for parents thinking about yea, their mortality, like if I can't, it'd be hard for me to picture a world that I'm not in and that where my kids weren't bonded.

Yeah, but we left it up there and laughed about it, and you know, I knew it was coming from a child's perspective obviously, but picturing it now, I just it would break my heart. And I think there's just also something about, Okay, now we're going to get a little deep, but mortality, right, And I think for parents thinking about yea, their mortality, like if I can't, it'd be hard for me to picture a world that I'm not in and that where my kids weren't bonded.

Ye know. I mean my sister has a nice relationship with my parents too. They've just stopped trying to bring us together because I think they realized it was feudial. But here's where the mortality piece comes in. For me, it's not my own mortality, it's that I don't want that reconnect. If we ever are going to reconnect, I don't want it to be at one of our parents' deathbeds. God forbid. I don't want that to be the moment because if we are going to come back together with my parents to experience it right, Because.

Ye know. I mean my sister has a nice relationship with my parents too. They've just stopped trying to bring us together because I think they realized it was feudial. But here's where the mortality piece comes in. For me, it's not my own mortality, it's that I don't want that reconnect. If we ever are going to reconnect, I don't want it to be at one of our parents' deathbeds. God forbid. I don't want that to be the moment because if we are going to come back together with my parents to experience it right, Because.

Okay, so again I'm not I'm not a shrink, and I don't I don't know really the intricate details of you and your sister, but thinking feeling that way like you would make them so happy, just for that reason.

Okay, so again I'm not I'm not a shrink, and I don't I don't know really the intricate details of you and your sister, but thinking feeling that way like you would make them so happy, just for that reason.

Is there a part of you that we're going to end in podcast. You're going to pick up the phone. I'm not going to pick up so many times. And I will tell you honestly, there's no interest on her part the way that I am. Jen. I am so open to always reconciling unless you've done something to me that is so unbelievably painful that I can't move past it. Then, like you've you've I can't even explain unless you've done something to me that's so unbelievably hurtful, I can really move past things. I'm good at that I'm good at, not just sweeping it under the rug.

Is there a part of you that we're going to end in podcast. You're going to pick up the phone. I'm not going to pick up so many times. And I will tell you honestly, there's no interest on her part the way that I am. Jen. I am so open to always reconciling unless you've done something to me that is so unbelievably painful that I can't move past it. Then, like you've you've I can't even explain unless you've done something to me that's so unbelievably hurtful, I can really move past things. I'm good at that I'm good at, not just sweeping it under the rug.

And it doesn't sound like though with you and your sister, it's been anything specifically one like one thing that was so painful. It's more just a lifetime of.

And it doesn't sound like though with you and your sister, it's been anything specifically one like one thing that was so painful. It's more just a lifetime of.

Miss there's nothing there. It's like telling me, like, if you want to reconcile with my neighbor Sue, and I don't know your neighbor Sue. You know, that's what it feels like to me. I don't know her, which is weird because we share the same parents. I don't know her, So would I reconcile with her? Yeah? I would, but it's not because I love her and miss her. Yeah, you know that's the difference. I don't love and miss her because I don't know her. It's more so that this piece of me that feels like there is I have a sister in the world and I don't know her. That feels that's always going to feel strange to me. Whether or not. It's not really about like losing a loved one, like not losing a loved one, but like losing a relationship, a loving relationship. That's not it. It's that I'm very uncomfortable with the idea of having a sister and having no relationship with her, even if I never did.

Miss there's nothing there. It's like telling me, like, if you want to reconcile with my neighbor Sue, and I don't know your neighbor Sue. You know, that's what it feels like to me. I don't know her, which is weird because we share the same parents. I don't know her, So would I reconcile with her? Yeah? I would, but it's not because I love her and miss her. Yeah, you know that's the difference. I don't love and miss her because I don't know her. It's more so that this piece of me that feels like there is I have a sister in the world and I don't know her. That feels that's always going to feel strange to me. Whether or not. It's not really about like losing a loved one, like not losing a loved one, but like losing a relationship, a loving relationship. That's not it. It's that I'm very uncomfortable with the idea of having a sister and having no relationship with her, even if I never did.

What about family members relationships that are toxic and but you make the decision to keep that relationship or keep the person in your life. And you always hear about the difficulty right of like things giving or you know, family, big family get togethers, and what's healthy there. We probably should have had a we can doctor on and we can what.

What about family members relationships that are toxic and but you make the decision to keep that relationship or keep the person in your life. And you always hear about the difficulty right of like things giving or you know, family, big family get togethers, and what's healthy there. We probably should have had a we can doctor on and we can what.

I think is healthy there, maybe not estrangement, but space. You know, you come together at certain holidays, but like even take the holidays. Let's say you say that Thanksgiving is no fun when Uncle John comes, like it's torture and he criticizes. You know, I've had people in my past who would come and you know, point out the flaws in my weight over the years, and I was so uncomfortable with them. But you can't can't cut off family. My parents never cut people out, you know, even if they were disasters, you know, because and.

I think is healthy there, maybe not estrangement, but space. You know, you come together at certain holidays, but like even take the holidays. Let's say you say that Thanksgiving is no fun when Uncle John comes, like it's torture and he criticizes. You know, I've had people in my past who would come and you know, point out the flaws in my weight over the years, and I was so uncomfortable with them. But you can't can't cut off family. My parents never cut people out, you know, even if they were disasters, you know, because and.

They probably they probably does kill them. I mean, do they talk to you about you and your sister? They just completely you said they gave up.

They probably they probably does kill them. I mean, do they talk to you about you and your sister? They just completely you said they gave up.

Oh yeah, they gave up. They gave up a few years ago. They realized both of us have full lives without each other in it, and they have They've gotten used to it. Listen, there are worse things than not having your all your kids in the same room at the same time. Yeah, yeah, of course it sucks, but they also have very full lives. They see her. This is why so we for many years, Evan and I would we would alternate holidays because my parents would go to her one year and they would come to me one year. So in the off years we go to his parents, you know, so because he's also got siblings, a sister, and she lives in the city, so like it wasn't always like everyone could be at one place. In recent years, everythingsgiving has been at my house because our parents are all older now, no one wants to cook and host and everything, right, So I'm happy to have it at my home. But you know, for we're never together for holidays, So yeah, it's so I'm just thinking about you know, we talked about doing this today's episode, and talk were really started out just talking about family and family dynamic and not just estrangement, but the difficulty sometimes of having family members that you don't relationships that you don't drive any joy from, right, and had to kind of handle that and still the wanting to maintain some kind of relationship. I can't say that. I well, you know, my relationship relationships with my parents have changed so much over the years, right, And I come from family that's been divorced. My father it was divorced three times. My mom's my mom, they divorced when we were really really young, and then my mom remarried and her husband died and there was another one. So it's been a lot of divorce. And my relationship with my parents today is so different than it was. There are times times where I didn't speak to my father, and like, you know, I do say to him now because we're in a much better place. As I've gotten older, it's gotten, you know, way better. But he made a lot of mistakes. I was a kid, so I'm not going to take too much responsibility for that. And he would say to me, you know, I didn't have any I didn't have any frame of reference. My father was a horrible father.

Oh yeah, they gave up. They gave up a few years ago. They realized both of us have full lives without each other in it, and they have They've gotten used to it. Listen, there are worse things than not having your all your kids in the same room at the same time. Yeah, yeah, of course it sucks, but they also have very full lives. They see her. This is why so we for many years, Evan and I would we would alternate holidays because my parents would go to her one year and they would come to me one year. So in the off years we go to his parents, you know, so because he's also got siblings, a sister, and she lives in the city, so like it wasn't always like everyone could be at one place. In recent years, everythingsgiving has been at my house because our parents are all older now, no one wants to cook and host and everything, right, So I'm happy to have it at my home. But you know, for we're never together for holidays, So yeah, it's so I'm just thinking about you know, we talked about doing this today's episode, and talk were really started out just talking about family and family dynamic and not just estrangement, but the difficulty sometimes of having family members that you don't relationships that you don't drive any joy from, right, and had to kind of handle that and still the wanting to maintain some kind of relationship. I can't say that. I well, you know, my relationship relationships with my parents have changed so much over the years, right, And I come from family that's been divorced. My father it was divorced three times. My mom's my mom, they divorced when we were really really young, and then my mom remarried and her husband died and there was another one. So it's been a lot of divorce. And my relationship with my parents today is so different than it was. There are times times where I didn't speak to my father, and like, you know, I do say to him now because we're in a much better place. As I've gotten older, it's gotten, you know, way better. But he made a lot of mistakes. I was a kid, so I'm not going to take too much responsibility for that. And he would say to me, you know, I didn't have any I didn't have any frame of reference. My father was a horrible father.

And so you know, as we as I got older, there were times where I would just cut him out right, or maybe he would cut me out. But now I'm fifty five years old and my father's eighty two years old, and there have been lots of there's been lots of reflection, there's been lots of apology, and I'd rather have him in my life than not. Yes, And you know, I say too, I talked about this in there a lot that I don't want regret and I don't want my father to one day, a million years from now pass away and feel like there was more I would have wanted to say, or I would have wanted to have more a more loving relationship with him, And we've been through it. Let me assure you that in terms of my childhood I've been through it again. That's for another episode. But as I've gotten older, I prefer to have, you know, my father in my life, and I do love him, and I know that he loves me, and he has reflected on his life and is very open to seeing the reality of what it was. When we were younger, my mom had it really really difficult. She you know, she was a single mom for while before she got remarried. She had very difficult marriages. We had very difficult stepfathers, and for that matter, we had a stepmother. It wasn't great there.

And so you know, as we as I got older, there were times where I would just cut him out right, or maybe he would cut me out. But now I'm fifty five years old and my father's eighty two years old, and there have been lots of there's been lots of reflection, there's been lots of apology, and I'd rather have him in my life than not. Yes, And you know, I say too, I talked about this in there a lot that I don't want regret and I don't want my father to one day, a million years from now pass away and feel like there was more I would have wanted to say, or I would have wanted to have more a more loving relationship with him, And we've been through it. Let me assure you that in terms of my childhood I've been through it again. That's for another episode. But as I've gotten older, I prefer to have, you know, my father in my life, and I do love him, and I know that he loves me, and he has reflected on his life and is very open to seeing the reality of what it was. When we were younger, my mom had it really really difficult. She you know, she was a single mom for while before she got remarried. She had very difficult marriages. We had very difficult stepfathers, and for that matter, we had a stepmother. It wasn't great there.

Anyway. Wow, I think, are you in touch with any of your stepfathers? No? No, on one? Now? Oh your mom is married now? Yeah, okay, yeah, and he is the best. Oh, I love that. See. But also your father is trying, like he realizes mistakes that he made when he was younger, and he's trying. And that's that's a big piece of it.

Anyway. Wow, I think, are you in touch with any of your stepfathers? No? No, on one? Now? Oh your mom is married now? Yeah, okay, yeah, and he is the best. Oh, I love that. See. But also your father is trying, like he realizes mistakes that he made when he was younger, and he's trying. And that's that's a big piece of it.

My mom, you know, in our relationship there was we really had like a come to Jesus and I didn't want to pretend anymore like my childhood was okay, And it was really hard at the beginning of that conversation and the conversation lasted probably a couple of years. But you know, my mom is who dealt with so much, and I look at our lives together and think about what she had to overcome and how difficult it was for her. But now you know, we got through it, and she she really, you know, said she's made her amends to me, as I will have to make to my children because I know that I have. I like to think of myself as the perfect mother, but I guess.

My mom, you know, in our relationship there was we really had like a come to Jesus and I didn't want to pretend anymore like my childhood was okay, And it was really hard at the beginning of that conversation and the conversation lasted probably a couple of years. But you know, my mom is who dealt with so much, and I look at our lives together and think about what she had to overcome and how difficult it was for her. But now you know, we got through it, and she she really, you know, said she's made her amends to me, as I will have to make to my children because I know that I have. I like to think of myself as the perfect mother, but I guess.

What I wasn't. Really, what do you think you did? I know I wasn't and I know that you weren't, and I know what I did that I think is like horrific is the things that I showed my children, The way that you treat yourself and the way that you starve yourself. I can't undo these things that I've shown, and I know it sounds very vague right now, but the habits that I displayed in front of my children are horrific. Yeah.

What I wasn't. Really, what do you think you did? I know I wasn't and I know that you weren't, and I know what I did that I think is like horrific is the things that I showed my children, The way that you treat yourself and the way that you starve yourself. I can't undo these things that I've shown, and I know it sounds very vague right now, but the habits that I displayed in front of my children are horrific. Yeah.

Well, again, I am uber aware that not there's not a parent out there that's perfect, no matter what you see on social media, and my mom was imperfect. Now our relationship is such that I cry every time I leave her. She's only lose a long island, but I just want to be with her all the time. There is nothing more comforting to me than just holding our hand. I'm going to get choked up. And there have been times where our relationship was not good, but yeah.

Well, again, I am uber aware that not there's not a parent out there that's perfect, no matter what you see on social media, and my mom was imperfect. Now our relationship is such that I cry every time I leave her. She's only lose a long island, but I just want to be with her all the time. There is nothing more comforting to me than just holding our hand. I'm going to get choked up. And there have been times where our relationship was not good, but yeah.

Mine too, but like great now, And I think a big piece of that is understanding. You know, when I was younger, I would make rash decisions and I would assume people's intentions and a lot of that, A lot of therapy has helped me to really see things from other people's perspective. So, for example, and this will sound shocking, but my mother still hasn't read my book. She read the first few chapters and then stopped. This was too painful for her. Well, I kept saying to her at the beginning of the you know, when I first came out, I was like, you know, insulting it is to me that you haven't read it, and she'd be like, I'm going to read it. I'm going to read it. And then I think, after like six months, I said to her, I can't believe you still haven't read it, and she said, Jackie, it's hard for me. It's hard for me to like read this stuff that you did for yourself, And I said, you know what, enough said, don't do anything that you don't want to do. Like I understand, I understand, and like I just because I can see things now, I'm mature enough to see things from other people's perspectives, I understand. Is it insulting now, No, because I get it, Like I don't know that I could read a story about my daughter like almost killing yourself, you know, So I just you know, there is this like piece of me that will always feel there is and it's not my sister. It's the idea of my sister, an emptiness because of what it could have been, and it isn't. But like I said, I just don't want it to like re. I don't want it to like for our relationship to start on a parent's stepbed. I hope that's not the case. I either wanted to never happen or I want it to happen so that my parents can see it and enjoy it for fear, But you know, I don't. It doesn't play into my everyday life. It plays in on these stupid like holidays. And I have unfortunate I have very close college girlfriends. One in particular, her name is Ali, and she is like she is the closest thing I have to a sister, but it's not a sister. It's not you know, it doesn't replace a sister. And I have very close friends and tenify I just like nothing replaces that relationship.

Mine too, but like great now, And I think a big piece of that is understanding. You know, when I was younger, I would make rash decisions and I would assume people's intentions and a lot of that, A lot of therapy has helped me to really see things from other people's perspective. So, for example, and this will sound shocking, but my mother still hasn't read my book. She read the first few chapters and then stopped. This was too painful for her. Well, I kept saying to her at the beginning of the you know, when I first came out, I was like, you know, insulting it is to me that you haven't read it, and she'd be like, I'm going to read it. I'm going to read it. And then I think, after like six months, I said to her, I can't believe you still haven't read it, and she said, Jackie, it's hard for me. It's hard for me to like read this stuff that you did for yourself, And I said, you know what, enough said, don't do anything that you don't want to do. Like I understand, I understand, and like I just because I can see things now, I'm mature enough to see things from other people's perspectives, I understand. Is it insulting now, No, because I get it, Like I don't know that I could read a story about my daughter like almost killing yourself, you know, So I just you know, there is this like piece of me that will always feel there is and it's not my sister. It's the idea of my sister, an emptiness because of what it could have been, and it isn't. But like I said, I just don't want it to like re. I don't want it to like for our relationship to start on a parent's stepbed. I hope that's not the case. I either wanted to never happen or I want it to happen so that my parents can see it and enjoy it for fear, But you know, I don't. It doesn't play into my everyday life. It plays in on these stupid like holidays. And I have unfortunate I have very close college girlfriends. One in particular, her name is Ali, and she is like she is the closest thing I have to a sister, but it's not a sister. It's not you know, it doesn't replace a sister. And I have very close friends and tenify I just like nothing replaces that relationship.

You know that well, you know for me because my sister and I had it. We didn't have an easy childhood, but there's this one experience that we had that we always for and this was by far not the even remotely the hardest thing that we went through. But we would leave, we would go to visit my father and get on the plane. So my mom we moved to Texas when I was nine years old, So we'd get on the plane to go back to Texas and we would both be crying, and I would just hold my sister on the plane and like she was, you know, she's only fourteen months younger than I am, on your way to Texas or because because a lot of reasons, but we you know, he was as much as he was not. It wasn't great, but it was still our father and it was still we had a lot going on, and so but I would just hold her like she was my little girl, and we talk about it, not a lot, but we talk about it to this day as no one can understand that but us, do you know what I mean?

You know that well, you know for me because my sister and I had it. We didn't have an easy childhood, but there's this one experience that we had that we always for and this was by far not the even remotely the hardest thing that we went through. But we would leave, we would go to visit my father and get on the plane. So my mom we moved to Texas when I was nine years old, So we'd get on the plane to go back to Texas and we would both be crying, and I would just hold my sister on the plane and like she was, you know, she's only fourteen months younger than I am, on your way to Texas or because because a lot of reasons, but we you know, he was as much as he was not. It wasn't great, but it was still our father and it was still we had a lot going on, and so but I would just hold her like she was my little girl, and we talk about it, not a lot, but we talk about it to this day as no one can understand that but us, do you know what I mean?

Like that's.

Like that's.

No one will understand all of it, like Robin does, like my sister doesn't. And not just the bad, right, but the good. No one, That relationship is not replaceable, right.

No one will understand all of it, like Robin does, like my sister doesn't. And not just the bad, right, but the good. No one, That relationship is not replaceable, right.

And that's why I say like there is something to the friends who are family. I strongly feel that with some of my friends, like I could tell them anything, I could be anywhere with them, right, But I don't. I don't think anything actually replaces family. But it's okay. I mean not everything in life is going to be perfect, and that's all right. And this is one relationship I don't get to have well, and I'm okay with it. And I think that a lot of times it's better to be estranged. You know, they didn't. And for anyone out there who has a toxic family member in your life that you are strange. From my take, it is okay me to protect your peace and forget what everyone says about how you never give up on family and you always have to keep trying if that is toxic for you, and you feel that authentically in your heart, let it go.

And that's why I say like there is something to the friends who are family. I strongly feel that with some of my friends, like I could tell them anything, I could be anywhere with them, right, But I don't. I don't think anything actually replaces family. But it's okay. I mean not everything in life is going to be perfect, and that's all right. And this is one relationship I don't get to have well, and I'm okay with it. And I think that a lot of times it's better to be estranged. You know, they didn't. And for anyone out there who has a toxic family member in your life that you are strange. From my take, it is okay me to protect your peace and forget what everyone says about how you never give up on family and you always have to keep trying if that is toxic for you, and you feel that authentically in your heart, let it go.

Every Listen. I think every case is different, right, and I think there are certainly, certainly many many cases where I would advise someone I love if something was toxic or if a family member was hurting them obviously to rid them right or get rid of that relationship. So it's more difficult, I think sometimes with family, but sometimes it is necessary. And we are not experts, so you know, I don't really have I can just we can only share our own experience, strength, hope and you know what we've been through. But I would never feel I would never look down on somebody that is strange, like I don't in.