Two Jersey Js with Jackie Goldschneider and Jennifer FesslerHe’s an actor, reality tv junkie and Jeff Lewis’ co-host… Doug Budín!
Find out the comedy role he didn’t get that could have changed his life.
And, Doug shares a hilarious and embarrassing story of meeting his favorite bravolebrity.
Hi, guys, It's Jen Fessler from Just Jan. I always think about Will and Grace when I say that, So thank you so much for coming back for my single gal episode. Here my first episode, you may remember, I had West Wilson on, and I think, if I'm correct, I described him as this person that when I met him, I just fell in love. He walked in the room and it was like there was this golden light shining around his sweethead and very strangely, and I know, I really don't say this about everybody. I swear I did Jeff Lewis last week. It was such an honor. That's a subject onto itself. But one of the best things about doing Jeff Lewis was meeting my new friend Doug Udin. And I know, you guys know who he is, probably way better than you know who I am. Doug has been acting and he's been a comedian for a long time, and now he co hosts with Jeff Lewis, and he has his own cooking show called Cook and Kibbutz, and I am over the moon to have him joining us today. Hello, my new bestie. Hi, Doug, Jen with two ends.
I'm corrected in my calendar because I did just Jen is with one end, and then I saw the email and I thought, oh, I learned. Oh no, she's got two.
Let me be honest with you, I don't have two, and you're the first person that has cared enough to take notice. I always was Jen j e En since the day I was born. I was j Een, and all of a sudden I entered this reality television world and not even my name maintains the same, like everything changes, including my name.
So yes, but my infight has two ends.
I understand that because no one cares what I think.
I mean.
No, I'm working on it in therapy, trying to assert myself.
I was actually thinking, this is so interesting. I need to ask Jen why why she added the end?
Well, you know what it is. I think when I got on the Housewives, the whole Jen Aiden of it all, Jen and Jen, I don't remember. Maybe she also spells hers with two ends, but it was always sort of hard to differentiate. So she was always Jennifer and I was Jen. I was actually Jen Fessler. I haven't heard anybody. Yes, always Jen Fesler, and listen, I'm still sort of just doing what I'm told in that arena so whatever they want to call me, like, I'm kind of going with it. And then it on social media it was j E N N. I don't know. I don't know what to tell you. But you are the first person I'm not surprised and not only recognize that I am a j E n but to really, you know, speak about it. And I appreciate that, but.
I don't like to get those kinds of things wrong. I'm very you know. It's also like our names, that's that's sort of it's our name, it's it's our goad to, it's our monikers, it's all the things. And so if you had to end, I figured that's a conscious choice, and so then we would get into that. But now that I know is just like a grammar thing, then whatever.
And don't you also kind of liked the girl with just one end better than the girl with two?
Yeah, well two it's a little so pretentious. I have no problem with pretension. I mean, yes, me and you'll learn, but I feel like it is a little it's a little extra step that we don't meet.
You might enjoy that girl, but you really like the girl with one right, I'm with you.
So you guys with a Jen Fessler anyway, that is Jeff Lewis is Jeff Lewis, We don't.
Yes, yeah, yeah, well so I as I just said, you guys, I did Jeff Lewis last week. It was absolutely the most fun, wonderful, welcoming, warm experience. And I also just said that that big part of that was meeting Doug, because you know when you meet someone. First of all, I was nervous. So Jeff Lewis is a big deal, right, it's not. I've done a lot of podcasts now, but let's get real, Jeff Lewis not maybe for you anymore, Doug, since you're a regular on it, but for little old me, little old j e one, I was very I was very nervous and very very excited and just did not really don't know what to expect. So I was very taken aback, first of all by how kind, how warm Jeff Lewis is. Don't tell me that he said that. He said that, don't tell anybody that I know, but it was it was like there was like a disconnect. Not because I've ever I don't. He's always nice to his guests, and he's honest and hilarious and charismatic and all of that. But I think the part that I was so taken back by was I came in there with my husband, Jeff Fessler, and one of Jeff's associates who is a lawyer that works with Jeff, and she is a Bravo like when you say Bravo Hollick or super fan or Jeff Lewis fan. She's all of those things. Don't ever, I don't understand how she's a securities attorney. I don't know how she gets through her work day. Apparently she's listening to Bravo as she's maneuvering millions upon millions of dollars or I don't whatever it is what it is so, but I brought her and she was so excited about it, and Jeff Lewis was, you know some people I brought her. I brought Jeff Fessler, and Jeff fest was quiet, right, He's not like monoxious extrovert like me. But Jeff made such Jeff Lewis made such a point of not only just saying you know, hello and meeting them and being you know and smiling and being kind, but like to actually connect with both of them because Emily, especially you know she is. She's durable and wonderful. But you know, he was there. I was there so that he could interview me, but he made a point to ask her questions, talk to her, you know, and so did you, Doug. I remember when we were talking about your assault, which we'll get to later, but just asking her, you know, do you like it? And he was asking her kind of a law Anyway, the whole thing here that I'm trying to say is that Jeff Lewis is such a kind, uh just really nice person, and I always loved him for the shade of it all, but now it runs a little bit deeper, right, I mean, I don't know. I know you told me a little bit, but tell me about your history with Jeff.
With Jeff, so and thank you. That was a very very amazing intro. I met Jeff through a mutual friend many years ago. I think it was right after the first season of Flipping Out. I don't even know that it had aired, I know it had filmed, and we met at the Glad Awards through this mutual friend. And then just like every couple of years, we would be at the same cocktail party or you know, some mutual.
Event you always click, like when you see it when you saw him. Were you guys always giggling together? Was it always like because you're both so funny? Right?
Sure? We always made each other laugh, and in fact we were seated next to so like maybe seven or eight years went by and then we were at a dinner party and my friend seated us next to each other and he said, Jeff, you know, said that you always make him laugh, and you know you enjoy each other's company. So we sat It was Jeff and Gage. I sat with them at this dinner party, and we did have a really funny time. And then and then we ran into each other at like a store opening kind of a thing. And then it was not until my fiftieth birthday that this friend hosted that he called me and he was like, hey, do you mind if I invite Jeff and Gage? And I said no, of course, but they're not going to come, like I'm not friends with them. And he said no, no, no, I'm out for dinner with them. They want to come. They really wanted to see his new house because his house was stunning, and this was just like a good excuse for them to do it. And they said no, no, no, they think you're great, They're going to come, and they came. And it was at that fiftieth birthday party that Jeff invited me on his show. I had no idea what he was talking about, and he said, you know, Gage will call you on Monday. I said, okay, never thought it would happen, and I did something like googling. I was like, oh, this is on radio, Andy, it's a radio show, and you know, like you, I was extremely nervous that first time, because you know, one thing that you didn't mention, which I think is a big differentiator for Jeff Lewis Live is the live part right right right With a podcast or even you know, with a TV show, like you get very nervous, but those things are edited and you're filming in advance and you're able to go back and fix things or remove things. But the live part of Jeff Lewis Live is what keeps you on your toes and you know, like at the edge of your seat.
I think when I started out this question, I really wanted to talk about what it was when I met you, not just Jeff, that just you know, first of all, I've been trying to figure out who the people that I want. I have six episodes here, so every single episode counts, and I want to have people on that I just jive with. So again, So you guys, when I met Doug, he's Doug, and now I know a little bit more about you, and I know that everyone loves Doug should be a TV show. But anyway, So, but just to give you a quick so like in between, so you film and it's live and then it cuts to commercial, but it's still kind of live. It's called a hot mic. Right. That was the whole sigh of it all when she said something about somebody whatever. But during that time, when when we weren't rolling, Doug was like trying to show me exactly, like where to put my microphone? Do you put like Jen, do it over here? If you do it like this, and if you do it like this, but definitely be quiet, like no, he doesn't have to tell me anything. He's busy, man, he don't what does he gives shit? If? I I don't know. I just had a very I always I'm very aware of when people do things for no other reason than just to be nice, and that turns me on. I just for whatever, I just love that I love generous people. And after that and then if you guys heard it, it was just so effing hilarious, un hinged. I mean, I hope you guys heard it because or maybe I don't, because then you're gonna that Doug is a thief and he steals from his mother.
But to the show today, it's still continuing. They were talking about it on today's show.
I think it didn't they talk about it after after we were on. It was Cy and Nicole, Yes, and they were still Oh, I mean, it was a remarkable discussion and you were so busted, like just quickly. So Doug steals paintings off of his sick mother's walls, and then he replaces them by taking other smaller paintings and taking them to a place where he could cheaply frame them so that it sort of covers the holes. But he did not know that we were going to even talk about this. Okay, I don't even know what about I think because he was when he came in and he had a backpack with a big painting in it, and so it's sort of like right, so it's sort of like uncovered a little bit of about what was going on. So yeah, no surprise. That took over the show as it should have, and it was so effing funny. It was just unreal.
Can I give you the update, because.
Yes, please, it arrived.
Yesterday, damaged, damaged.
Now I ensure we get insurance. Was it like a twelve thousand dollars painting? Tell me you insured it?
It's I did insurance. It's not that valuable. It's not an important piece. It's something that means a lot to me.
Uh huh yeah, okay, yeah, so what so it's not just five thousand dollars painting? Uh huh, it means a lot to you. Clearly it's not.
It's not considered like an important piece.
Okay, there there are.
I think it's an addition of one hundred and fifty.
There's a lot of that, right, Just a piece you didn't want your sister to have, Okay.
I already talked with her. So I was so excited, and I've been like, really, I have been having my house painted. It's taken out a month and I live in a teeny house. It's one hundred year old cottage. But there's so much plaster work that just everything takes a long time. So finally they're finished. In that room, I have like the little take marks where this piece is gonna go. The box arrives, I'm so excited. I open it and it like came off its mounting or the backing, so it's just like loose inside the frame. Now I could have called I guess ups and filed to claim, but there's no way to prove that it was that it happened while it was being shipped.
And also karma is a bitch, and you figure you deserved it a little bit.
Well whatever you think. But I went right to the framers. I was really I was very nervous because also you have to hold it, you know, horizontal, because if you if you move it, it could you know, ding the side right. So I brought it in and the guy said, it's actually a very easy fix. It's like their minimum charge because they can just keep the frame. They just have to remount it. But it's not going to be ready until December sixth, So now I have to sit and wait and look at my empty wall.
But I'm sorry, I'm so sorry. Hear that. Listen. In the meantime, if you're back in New York, you can steal something. I'm sure, she has many paintings. I mean, right, it's not the only one. We spoke about the fact that in a million years from now, when God forbid, your mother passes, your mother lives in a beautiful apartment that will, sorry, but one day be yours. But what you didn't mention And I don't know how my sneaky little husband found this out. You told me it was beautiful and it overlooks Central Park. My husband is I don't know how he gets his job done on any daily, on any given day, he's researching housewives. I mean it's very, very bizarre. So I don't know how he found this out. Do you live Does your mother live with the Dakota?
No?
Oh, okay, all made more sense to me, right, I thought that d Kote to you guys, if you don't know, is a very very exclusive, exclusive building in New York. So when Jeff Fessler said that to me, it all sort of came together. I was like, fuck, I missed the painting.
No Koda Dakota, that's where John Lennon.
Gun Lennon was shot.
Right, Yes, she lives not far from the Dakota, but that of course that have you ever get a chance if you ever get a chance to go to somebody's apartment at the Dakota, you go just really each apartment is totally different. A lot of celebrities, you know, not the apartments don't turn over a lot, and every now and then somebody will pass and their apartment will go up for sale and you can just look at the floor plan online. They are incredible apartments.
That's like, you know a lot about this, which I love.
I'm a New Yorker, like everybody knows the Dakota.
Where are you now though I'm in Los Angeles. Yeah, so you live in Los Angeles, but you are back and forth?
Right, Yeah, I go back, you know, as especially as my mom gets older, I try to go back more often. My dad died in twenty twelve, well and ever since then, I spend like my mom and I spent like a week together in August and the week between Christmas and New Year's and then you know, throughout the year, I try to go back at least once every eight or nine weeks, just for a weekend. But also, you know, I'm from New York, so all my not all my friends, but a lot of my long term friends are still in New York City friends from high school who leave, you know, And I went to a teeny little Quaker school. Like any Jew from the Upper East Side, I went to the Quaker school. But there were fifty. There were fifty in my graduating class, and we all have three weeks ago in New York. I think thirty eight of us all got together in somebody's apartment out So it's it's very.
A city little like private city school.
Yeah, it was on sixteen between second It's called Friends, Friends Seminary.
So I know there was also one at all Long Island. I don't know why I know this, Yes, I yes, yes, yes, yes, oh I had a boss who was involved with it. I never really understood what what it all means.
But right like they're run by the Friends Society, which is the Quakers. There's very famously Sidwell Friends in d C. There's the George School in Pennsylvania, and they're run by the Quakers, and the ideals of Quakerism are infused in how they approach education. But it's just like a regular private school. The difference is we had silent meeting, which is part of Quakerism, and so like twice a week you would sit in silence for thirty minutes the entire upper school, but it starts at the four year old. They have to do five minutes of silence and it's about you know, reflection and at the core, and we don't need to talk about religion, but at the core of Quakerism, they believe that there is that of God in everybody and it's your mission in life to figure out sort of what that means for you. And it's about consensus and obviously pacifism, and they believe that the gap between teacher and student is quite small because you learn from each other and they teach you to be a lifelong learner. And that is definitely how I approach my life. So I am so thankful for that education that I had because it's like I try to learn something new every day. I really there's there's so much still to me.
Well, I wish that I had then had gone to Quaker school by myself. I actually went to in Texas. I went to the High School for the performing in visual arts. You did what was your book, theater, theater, and it was not a private school, but it was a magnet school, so you had to try out to get in. Yeah, I don't know how I got and I was a horrible actress. But I like this sounds like you had like a I don't know how to describe it, but not your typical all American high school difficult for years. Like my kids went to the quintessential you know, American high school and it's not easy. I went to performing art high school in Houston, and it was pure love, right. It was like we were all just a bunch of freaks and it was you know, artists. It was performing and visual arts arts. They were like photographers and vocal It was just just you know, everything about it was right for that age. You just was just acceptance and love and you know, very crunchy. And I'm picturing your high school sort of like that as well.
It was. I mean, it's like it wasn't exactly the little a little microcosm because here we are in the middle of New York City and friends was on an honor code, like you know, my friend failed himself at self paced jogging like you you know, are say what for real? And somebody somebody turned themselves in for cheating. Oh I turned I reported myself for cheating on the AP French exam on one question, which was an accidental cheap and I turned myself in. But somebody was expelled for cheating on a physics lab and they, you know, they turned themselves.
Into Look, you turned yourself in for cheating.
But it was it was an accident and I reported it. So none of our exams were proctered, like you know, because we were on an honor code. And I was sitting with my best friend Tom Witherspoon cellar Hi Tom, Hi, Tom, yail now. And you know when you did those languages the ap French exam, you you sat, you had to listen to like a cassette recorder and repeat. There was this like oral part and you know, if you missed the question, it's better than getting it wrong. And so I missed. I didn't hear what they said. So I was just gonna sit quietly. And Tom was sitting like right on top of me, and he goes, ooh best get bull And I saidual, best get bull. Oh no, please disregard Tom. I just cheated. What do I do? And Tom's like shut up? And I said, this is douve butten, I'm at tape recorder four. And I missed the next question. Also but nothing ever happened.
But I say, what they beat the shit out of you? Like you said, it sounds so actually it's actually starting to sound a little scary, like a little freaky over there with the Quakers, so scared you turning yourself in.
That's an old witty Allen joke, like I got beat up by Quakers. You know, I'm so weak. I got beat up by Quakers. No you have to, but I'll tell you on the flip side, Jen with one end? Is that like when we did the Crucible, you know, and we were I was the two hundred and first graduating class of my school. I mean, this is an old, old wow. And when we did the Crucible and we performed it in this eighteenth century meeting house. Juliet who was this girl in my class, her dad said, oh, I'll write some original music for it. And her dad was Philip Glass, the composer, whom we didn't know. We just knew one. So we had our art history class met at the Metropolitan Museum. You know, it's like all the all the incredible things you get from New York. So it was certainly not a typical upbringing, but you know it was. I was not a popular kid. I had a lot of.
Child that is. I have a hard time believing that.
Truly, truly I was you know, I was very girly and not not that I was shy, but I was not. I was not a great student.
And now you know, we just ap ap French.
Okay, that was it.
That Okay, that was your Yes, I was a good student either, Okay.
And now when I get to I don't know if you are close with anybody if you go back to your school in Texas, but you know, so here like thirty eight thirty nine of us just got together and I'm walking around and someone's like, oh I was I'm a Rhodes scholar blah blah blah blah blah. And someone's like, oh, I just you know, helped house nine hundred thousand people. And they're like, what do you do. And I'm like, like it just it's.
I met out of here. Okay, come on now, stop. I mean I would think that you would be walking around like, I don't know, very very proud to be Doug Buden at a high school reunion.
I don't know, it's not like they are all so accomplished and so smart. And then there's like, oh, Doug, yeah, I've got a lot of good for you.
You know, so you you had this upbringing New York and you are an actor and I'm sorry, but just tell them about the wood. It should have could have been cammed just for a minute. Thanks for but sorry, sorry, I can't help it. I'm upset about it. You told me about it. I still I'm up at and I think I'm just upset. I'm angry about it.
There have been a lot of roles that you know, when you're an actor, you're auditioned for stuff, and that you don't book it. Just that's part of the that's part of the deal.
I'm glad you got pasted it. I'm not past it.
It does. Yeah, the big one that got away was was Cam on Modern Family. But it only put me in like a seven year deep depression for real that I don't know if i'd mentioned to you like that. I think that's the only one that really affected me so heavily and so much, because you really you auditions for something and then you forget about it, and then every now and then I'll go to IMDb and I'll look it up and I'll say, like, who booked that after all, and a lot of times the roles disappear, they get written out, or they'll past it, you know, they decided to go with a woman, or it's a diverse casting or something. That one role of Cam on Modern Family was, for whatever reason, the one that I was like, this is it. My life is about to change. Yeah, And you know, obviously I didn't get it, and then you sort of move on. And when I finally worked in it, because I did end up with a recurring role on it, and you know, they we all knew each other. I'd worked with many of the actors before, and it was Eric stone Street came up to me. He's like, so, Jesse just told me that you tested against me, and it.
Was between you and Eric. I mean it was That's what it came down to.
Yeah, So he came up to me, He's like like he puffed out his chest and I said, I think it went okay for you. Eric. I think think you're okay. I mean I wouldn't be feeling hard for my mother, you know, I'd I'd buy her a gallery or something.
Well, listen, I mean it's okay. So that now that we've gotten past the trauma of that is cam. But you've certainly made up for it. I mean, you've done a lot and you are still doing a lot, and so I mean you want to tell us a little bit about I don't know what you've done, what you going to do?
Well, you know, it's it's funny that this gig with Jeff really it came at a time when the entertainment industry, or the television industry, because that's really what I what I was doing most of has changed dramatically, and so this gig Jeff has been incredible timing wise as well, because you know, everything was filmed here and I worked on a lot of sitcoms that were multi cam sitcoms like Will and Grace are Friends, you know, where there's the studio audience, and and with my background in theater, that is a very theatrical way to you know, television experience. So it's the closest you have to being on stage is when the live audience. And now shows have moved away from that and they film more like you know, Sex and the City or and just like that, or even Modern Family. It's film. It's like a film, and now a lot of production has has left Los Angeles and stuff has moved to Atlanta and New York and other places. So I still obviously audition for a lot of things, and but work is far in view between, especially as as we age, although as a character guy in theory, I should still be able.
To do work. Yeah, yeah, Well it's just and I have listened to Jeff Lewis for a long time. I don't know, but I didn't realize. Maybe I wasn't. I haven't been completely consistent, but you know, when after the show aired, thanks to Jeff Wessler and the Emily of it all, they go get on Reddit to see responses and I know, horrible, right, but the thing is an x and whatever else and Instagram. There is this love for Doug that is like it was a little annoying for me because I was barely apparently I was all anybody wanted to talk about was Doug and the mother and the painting and the cuteness of Doug, and we love Doug and now gorgeous Doug looked. It was like a hole. So there is definitely like a Doug praize going on, and it's I don't know, I'm I'm I'm on that bandwagon.
Well, I get Listen, there is there is hate, for sure.
We all get there's not you get hate.
We all get negative comment. Not really, yeah, we do, we do.
We do kind of SICKO would hate you.
I'm always like, listen, I may not be everybody's cup of tea, and that's fine. I'm hardly polarizing.
I would know, and I think you are everyone's cup of tea. There's something wrong with someone who's not whose cup of tea you are not well.
Some people don't like tea.
I'm maybe I don't even know. Yeah, I don't like tea either.
Okay, just got a new coffee maker and I literally just got back from returning it. I'm so upset Jen with one Va. I had this grinding brew forever and it stopped working. So I was going to get in the same one, but I upgraded to the Revel, which is like the fancy and that artist. It is maybe a quarter of an inch too tall to slide under my counter, you know.
My car breaking, yes.
And I was like, yes, okay, I'll just live with it. I'll live with it out and I'd walk into my Channis and do it.
Yeah, stop thinking about it.
Yeah, okay, slide founder and then I was like, I'll just do that twice a day.
But the problem is, even if you rationalize in your head it'll be okay, I can do this, you can't stop thinking about it or looking at it, and it just kills you every single effing time you want a cup of coffee. It doesn't fit under the counter. I know, you know my husband, I don't know why we both drink one cup of coffee a day, but he wanted this built in Meale or whatever it did Meale, I don't know, right, it was expensive and he put it into the wall. And this is going back probably a year, and it was expensive. I mean, I'm talking like five grand. Like I don't neither one of us are that into coffee. I don't know. I don't know what it was about this thing, because he's not somebody that does often, like make expensive purchases like that for no reason. But I will tell you it is the worst coffee. I go over to my sister. She makes every night, she gets her mister fricking coffee. She puts a little bit of cinnamon in the grinds or whatever and sets it for let's say seven o'clock. So you wake up to the smell of hot coffee with cinnamon and it's actually hot. I got to take this five thousand dollars cup of coffee, put it in my microwave, okay, and it's a week even though I pushed the double caffeine button. So listen, sometimes oldies are goodies.
I'm really it's interesting you say that. You know, Jeff Lewis had that during COVID we did the show out of Jeff's home. Serious sent Jeff equipment and we would just show up at his house and he had that machine and I knew how to, you know, use it, and I thought the coffee was okay. But then there was a day Shane called me. He's like, FYI, the coffee maker is broken. And when that thing breaks, that's you're talking a lot of money to have it fixed. And I was googling error code for eighty one. I was like, oh, got a fuel. I mean, it was a whole thing, but we only had to like bring our own coffee for a few days. But that I love just having that built in. It does look very.
Sheep, does look good. Let's hope it's good for resale because I'm I think it is again.
And I think that's why people do it, is because you know, like my house I live, you know, in West Hollywood. Like my house, you don't need to have that gagganow or wolf or Viking stove. Well you live in some homes. That's what you have to buy, just because that's what people expect. Reseau, your coffee maker, I think is the equivalent.
Yeah, my kitchen's very fancy and I am the worst cook, so and I really don't care to learn. But anyway, what I also want to talk to you about a little bit, Doug, is because you came off to me upon our meeting, because just the sweetest, kindest, and I want to get a little bit of shade out of you. I can't help it because I know you are. I know you are a housewives junkie, just like the rest of us. Right, I don't really exactly And I never wanted my podcast with Jackie or this one. I don't want it to be a housewife podcast. I think we are probably saturated with those, right, So I'm going to tell myself this is a Doug podcast, and Doug's view on housewives is not does not make it a housewife podcast. What are you watch in? What are you watching right now?
I watch everything. I mean I watched New York, Salt Lake City, Potomac, Beverly Hills, Orange County, Neck Project, Runway, Top Chef, I watch. I have been watching Bravo since they had the IT factor. That is, that is how long I've been watching Bravos. So I really, I truly I watched them all, Summerhouse, Winter House. I gave up on Married to Medicine, like season three, but now I wanted to go back because I heard Phedro was on it, and I gave up on vander Pump Rules maybe season four, and I never went back.
I'm telling you we are all synced up. It's weird, but I don't. I never got Below Deck and I know some of my friends that's their favorite. I know people love Below Deck. I just never got.
The most one of the most embarrassing things that ever happened to me. You know how they say, like, don't meet your idol. Is that's the thing. I mean, he's not exactly an idol. He's more just like an infatuation. But Fraser, who is one of the stews and now chiefs do on Below Deck. I had one of the most embarrassing encounters with him at Bravo Khan. I was so nervous to meet him and I word saladed all over him at this photo op that I paid for and signed up to get a photo with him. I was like, who was also one of the co hosts on Jeff Show. You're supposed to like walk up and obviously like turn for the instead, I walked up and I was like him was like literally like it was horrible. So then security is like, sir, sir, backup, sir, you're gonna hand up.
That did not happen hand I can't believe.
And Megan goes, where's your backpack? I left it at Fraser's feet, So I had to crawl and move the curtain like this and like have my bag and withdraw it slowly on the floor. Horrible. And I'm gonna DM you the photo that they have of us, of you, it's our feet. It's literally.
I absolutely have to. I actually want to see who Fraser is now, why he would cause such a reaction. Is he some? Is he gorgeous?
Is he he's all of it?
I mean, he's he's he's everything.
He's very young, but he speaks beautiful French. He's clever and smart. He's witty and also a little bit caustic when he needs to be. He's super debonair and swab everything. I'm not. I am a like an oath, you know. And he is you.
And me both my brother. Yeah, I know two people that are too swave. They it freaks me out. I get very nervous, very intimidated. You know. I've had that moment with Andy Cohen, and I think I probably had it with him every time that I met him. Not that I met him so many times, but let's say i've met him a little more than a handful, right, I've done to watch what Happens live when I'm in it, when we're actually recording, I'm fine. It's the it's the initial hello where I start to just shake a little bit and say stupid shit and like try to be funny really quickly, and he kind of gives me a look like I don't get it, and he kind of moves away quickly, and I'm like kicking myself. I just get like a little too worked up. I mean, it pans out, But I have definitely been there, and I've been there with Bravo lebs as well, I don't.
Play it cool well you know what I mean, not aloof like I don't do it.
Yeah, so hate life.
I find it. You're so I as you know, it was likewise for me meeting you, Like I met you and I just wanted to hug you, and I feel like I sort of and I had something similar with with Dolores when I first met Dolores. Yeah, like you know, you feel like you're good.
We're like, yeah, we're good. I know, yes, it's true you for sure. Okay, Well tell me if you don't feel that way when upon meeting.
Has there been there have been a couple of people who are just cooler, you know, rather than warmer. And I think that's just then, which is okay, Like I just if.
It's not helping me here, well what names?
I'm not like a sudden name them that is not me right right right? There are always people, you know, when you meet somebody, like you never know what's going on in their day and right, And I think as we get older, we have more experience where we've met people when when we're like just not in it or like back up or whatever. And so I feel like I just try to put myself.
You give grace. I understand that, and actually, as I get older to give a lot less grace. I find that I am nastier and nastier, and especially I don't I think the problem with the Bravo Labs is that as a viewer, I have very strong opinions, right, I had very strong opinions about the cast of Jersey before I got on, And it is it all changes once you make direct eye contact and talk to someone and they become actually human, right, They're not just a character. So that was my experience with Jersey. But even at Bravo Con, I already have these I because you don't really get that chance to really connect with that many you know of the Bravo Labs, and I just found myself given dirty looks left and right. I was like, I couldn't wait until they fit into the picture of what I thought that they were just from watching the show, you know, I would like and I would just I was just sort of like I would just sort of get off on it. It's so funny, but you know, I'm a surprise you who surprised me at bravocon Whitney from Salt Lake.
Okay, what was your what were you thinking?
I was not. I just didn't. I wasn't driving with hers as a viewer. I was just and I think sometimes I get like that with beautiful blondes. I just get pissed. And so it could have completely just been me, just a jealousy thing. I mean, and she's just the whole body, face, hair of it all. But anyway, so I didn't. I wasn't a huge Whitney fan. And I met her. We shared the same hairdresser and makeup artist, and so we're all in this sort of sweet together. And as soon as I started talking to her, she was so adorable and so warm and so that I was like, immediately just had a girl crush on her. It was so different. I would never have imagined that I would have felt like that, But that always happens, right, like when you actually meet someone and get past whatever your image of them is. But this is not helping me. I wanted us to get like really shady. I wanted to like get the shit from you, the Jeff gets from you.
But I don't. The thing is is that like where I'm interacting with people, it is usually like in a friendly like you know people aren't going to have like nobody's had a hissy fit or anything like that in front of me, Right, they really had. And the truth is if somebody did, I probably wouldn't say it. But but the truth is I haven't and everybody because people are on their best behavior when when we're sitting in that studio, of course are And then when we've gone to commercial and somebody has said, nobody has said anything like, well, I'm glad we didn't bring out both like it just doesn't happen, and right, I also don't listen to it. I really like, I just try not to focus on that. Have you been disappointed after meeting anybody?
Meeting every anybody? Have I've been disappointed? Yes, I have, and we're going to and I was putting you on the spot. You can't put me on the spot. Absolutely not. I asked the answer. The answer I know you didn't, But the answer the answer is yes. The answer is a big resounding yes.
Why was it, Ramona? What is it that she did to you?
Ramona is exactly who she is on camera. I never met someone so outrageous in the best way on camera and does not disappoint off camera like she was not putting it on. That is exactly who she is.
I feel about Jeff Lewis quite Yeah, he is, you know, like you say, he's a nice guy, all the things he's he's he's exactly to me what we saw on you know, flipping out our Hollywood house lift.
He is authentically yeah, yeah, yeah, But I guess I just didn't. I don't know. I was just touched by how how nice you know? I guess because you think of him and you think of him as so funny and the shade of it all is the best part. Right, He's smart in that way, yeah, yes, but in that way, yeah, now, he's very smart. So what do you think of if we're not going to shade individuals? Tell me about because Jeff's like favorite, he said recently, is the New New York. Yeah, how do you feel about that?
That's not my favorite? But I'm in that space that I think a lot of people are in where I'm not like I go, But I I because I've been watching since the very beginning, I am hyper aware. And because Peacock and Bravo are rerunning all these old old shows, it's so different now. The shows don't resemble their first and second and third season.
I know, so I think it's actually it's I know not Yeah, I guess so, I mean, it's all you know, because yeah, it's like we're not we don't have the benefit of not knowing what we've stepped into, right and.
Exactly, and you're like the idea of coming with like a glam team and like all those things, which it just it removes the reality of the television one more layer, because you know, it's like when when you're watching a TV show and there's a knock at the door, like we're let's say you're going to visit Margaret. Let's say right right, and so follow you up the door and we knock on the door and then we cut right into Margaret's house and we see her answer the door. It's like, that's that's how we how we accept television. But that means that there's already a camera in Margaret's house to catch people coming in. So it's like that's and that's how TV shows are filmed. But it's not that the way it used to be. Where I mean, I was just actually thinking, was it who who in Atlanta? Was it? It wasn't Nani? Was it Kenya who knocked on her mother's door, and like they didn't.
Yes, I remember that whole episode, yes, and they were it was not good between them. They hadn't seen each other.
In exactly right, that was the door, right.
Yes, yes, yes, and so you had to deal with that, right.
And I feel like now we may not see something like that happen because all the releases are signed in advance and clearances and the cameras and everything is all the production part of it leads these shows as opposed to the content. I think in many instances, and Jeff has talked about this too, how like there are producers who will set up, you know, these situations because then they think it's going to great content as opposed to what you're actually doing.
Well, you know, I'm always asked, is this for real? Is it real? And it is. There's nobody tells you what to say. What comes out of my mouth is not on script. And that holds true for all of the Housewives as far as I know, right, but yes, you are definitely put in situations obviously, right, Like whatever it is, all of these trips, the Housewives trips, I mean, I don't know that any housewife that's not a lot of housewives will be wealthy enough to take the entire group too, wherever it is, you know, Mexico, and and here, look, I got you each a hotel room and now I'm going to throw a big dinner and with the band. And it's so that kind of thing, I guess, but you know, definitely and scarily enough, it's real in terms of just the relationships, the angers, the fights, the craziness. It really is. You know, I was thinking, you're the first person I'm saying this out loud to, which is interesting, right, something about you? So if I if I I don't know what's going to happen next season, I think that had such a good time Season thirteen it was just so so much fun. Season fourteen was more intense for me. And everybody would say to me, like, you know, you're so funny. Season thirteen not so much season or you were whatever they call me flip flop or this that. But I did find in season fourteen, I was more in my head because the stakes felt so high, right, and it was a scary. It's kind of a bit of a landmine, right, So, like season fourteen was not easy and you can't really do what you're supposed to do if you're in your head on these shows and right, and I don't know what's going to happen. Who knows I'm ever gonna, you know, appear in another Real Housewives of Jersey episode, But I feel like I would like to give a few more of my opinions not be in my head. And I think that's that tripped me up a little because it was just so scary. There was so much anger, there was so much.
Hang Yeah, that's the thing. You were really, all of you in that this last season were in a in a unique position because you had these these two camps that right, and you're kind of going back and forth, and as a viewer, it was tense and a lot of times when there's tension in the world, like I don't necessarily want to see that mirrored on my television. I want to or whatever, but then there are other people who gravitate to that, they want a doom scroll or whatever. So you know, the thing is, you can't please everybody all of the time. And so that's why I think, and we talked a little bit about this on Jeff Show, I got the impression because we don't know each other that well. But I got the impression that you were just being you, Like I didn't necessarily see you in your head, but you know when you stood up at the at the reunion or at the last tep of was at the reunion and.
They say this is not for me, Yeah, no, that was me. That was me, Like, I don't care what the consequences are.
Now, that's important that you were you. So that's not you being in your head. If you were like, oh, I want to go, but I'm staying, but I'm not. That's you being in your head thinking about how it's going to affect your future career. Right, You're just always you.
When I got in my head about it, it was more like it wasn't so much about well they ask me back, if I do this, I wasn't. It wasn't that kind of thing. It was more like that tension. The tensions were so high, the stakes felt so high, right, Like these women want to kill each other, they want to ruin each other's lives and livelihoods, and so I don't want to ruin anyone's life, and I don't want anyone to ruin my life.
And so.
I don't know I'm not sure. I mean I was, I felt like I was doing. If I look back at it, I was. I was mainly in the moment. But I hope that if I get another chance, the stakes won't be at high, people around me won't want me dead, so I can give my opinion more freely, you know what I mean. And Margaret always had like, oh, you're a woos You're a weak sauce. Whatever I'm really not like. To know me is to know that I am none of those things my mother things that aren't great. But I'm not those things. But you know, it was an intense three months, really intense.
I was going to ask, how long you feel? So you filmed that for three months?
Yeah, we filmed for three months. And I had I felt like this responsibility to be light right, Like I wanted to be more of the comic relief.
You are so funny.
You are not oh funny, I'm I'm all right, No, I mean you are, thank you, And.
You're exactly the voice that somebody like me sort of wants to hear on those shows because you're almost like the chorus in a way. You're giving.
That's what I That was the biggest compiment. Somebody said I was like a Greek chorus. My responsibility was to also be in it, right, not just commenting on it. So that's the part. Who knows what the future will bring.
But I want you, you're hoping that you'll have another opportunity to to like go back to the way it was supposed to be, so you know, pooh pooh pooh. And if I here's a question for you. Is Rails a place that you would like to go on a Thursday? Or is that a spectro Asian?
No, Rails is the place where I, you know, first saw Teresa Judae flip a table. Rails is a place. Rails was a place in my mind. I just said that. I just said, there's so many scenes of Rails. But I'm sorry, excuse me, forgive me, forgive me. No, I'm sorry. So I'm sorry. Please forgive me, God of Bravo, Please, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I know that it was a lot. Yes, it might have been the Brownstone. It might have been the Brownstone.
Why okay, hold on, let's break this down.
Kathy and Rosie and Teresa had a big fight at Rails. I think when basically, like Teresa said, something about cancer. They're cancer. Maybe that was a rail yes, yes, yes, so, but Rails is iconic because of the house was New Jersey, but it's like an hour from me, so I never went there except for yeah, but I mean I've been there now because of the show. Obviously, I feel like they've probably a good wedge, like a good a hundred percent yes that wedge. Yes, And it is a great esthetic. The place is gorgeous. I mean, you would think the train would be annoying, but because of the Housewives, it's just iconic, right, Yeah, it's a big, beautiful restaurant. It really is that I may never go to again.
Well pooh poo pooh.
You will poo poo poo poo poo.
Since we know you don't like to cook, what are you going to do?
But I want to do cooking and kibbutzing with you.
You have to come on cooking kibbits. So that's most Thursdays. And you know, like we don't we don't even have to cook, although like you, if you're not in my kitchen, you don't have to cook. You could just kibbits an answer questions.
You can also do it like doing a live it's like just because I was watching a little bit of one of them. It's just like doing a live, right and everybody's kind of talking to you at the same time.
Yeah, we're live.
I love that.
And so sometimes people a lot of times, my best friend Sal will come over and he's a really really good cook, or my friend Lisa, But whoever's you know, whoever's.
Here, how'd you come up with it?
So during lockdown, everybody was just home. And you know, I always cooked. I love to cook, I love to entertain. And I had a friend whom I knew from the Farmer's market, and she was like, let's go live. I said, okay, and we did it, and I think we had like, you know, a couple of hundred people watching, and we made I don't even remember what. I think. I may have roasted chicken. I love the Barbara Kofka five hundred degree chicken. That's a separate topic. And then we did it like every couple of weeks, and then unfortunately no longer worked for her, and I said, well, I'm just going to keep going, and I trademarked cook and kibbets and people started sending me, like, you know, they would have a cutting boarder or utensils and stuff, and then Jeff and I did some like merch boxes with cook and kibbets, and I just I have so much fun. You know, a lot of times it's it's an opportunity for me to finish a story that they didn't do this because when you came on the show, Jen, our regular producer Jamison, who's from New Jersey, he was home visiting his family. But normally the minute I start talking, Jamison presses a little button, which is the Oscar music, and they drowned me out. And so it's office. It's my opportunity to finish a lot of my stories.
That is so you are. It's so funny because I love being I am often very oftentimes a brunt of the joke, and it's like my favorite thing to be. I don't know why, I just I just I just love that. I absolutely love it, and because you just can take it. Yeah, I love that.
There's a lot worse things in the world. And the other thing is it's never the It's it's never how what the story of the joke is. It's how we let it affect us. And that's why I said, well, it's like if I let everything Jeff Lewis says affect me, I would be hiding under my bed, like you know, it's like it's okay, I'm okay.
It's so funny because when I started the show and I was getting all of this you know whatever for season thirteen was a little easier, but I got a lot of hate season fourteen. And the interesting part of it is none of it bothered me. That was like the stuff that, like, none of the stuff like about my looks that didn't bother me at all like I would and I actually thought it was funny. I got like stilt like jay Leno's chin, or I got drag queen, or she looks like she looks like Caitlyn Jenner and like all of that, like I was. The only stuff that would get to me is when people would be like, I mean, sound sounds so silly, but like, wow, she's really a bad backstabbing like like that was the shit that would you're yeah, because I could. I like to be made fun of. I make fun of myself like I'm all about that, So that shit doesn't really it really doesn't get to me. It was the other stuff, it was, like the character stuff and you know, and.
Here you are. It's like there will be thousands of comments saying how wonderful you are, and then there's the two or three that are negative, and that's that's what you end up focusing on, which is like, yeah, that's that thing that I'm saying, like how we let that affect us like that? You know, all the accolades are whatever, But it's like that one person you feel like I want I want them to know the real me I am.
I mean, I've only been twenty years of therapy. You would think that it wouldn't be get twenty years of therapy, forty milligrams of prozac? How much will it take until I just don't really care anymore. I'm still working on it, right.
Yeah, I've bet tell us a good thing. Otherwise you'd be dead, Like you know, you have to keep moving.
Forward, right And now I would like for you to tell us about truffle salt, please, my friend.
So, I have a line of truffle salt that I sell through these amazing partners at saltery. There are small women owned business in Duxbury, Massachusetts. And the thing is, I've always collected salt the way that people collect shot glasses. I mean, I would travel, and I love to travel, so wherever I go, I would always just buy some local salt. And then because I do like to cook, when I would use that salt.
I'm sorry, I had to just up for one second. What do you mean is salt that different in Denmark that it is in New Jersey. It is just salt. Table salt is different in different places.
It's different, I do. Yeah, like my Icelandic sea salt is very different from the salt I got in Ireland or in Tropany. Really yes, it's some are saltier, they're from different waters, some are coeral tasting and so. But it's also the romantic part of it for me is you know, if I'm making something and I use that salt that I got in Tropany, and then I think about my trip to Sicily and so a lot of it is the memory associated with it. And of course, straight believe it or not, Jeff and the team at Jeff Lewis Life thought that that was a little strange and they love to make fun of me. So when this company reached out, because we always included salt in these merch boxes, and I said, I would love to do. I would love to include a truffle salt, and they said, we don't have one. And you know, we could buy truffle salt everywhere, but I like white truffle more than black truffle, and I don't like the artificial ones because a lot of them use artificial flavors or like an enhancer. And so they reached out and they said, would you like to develop a truffle salt that you love? And we mixed black truffle with white truffle and it's all hand harvested sea salt. And so it took about six or seven months going back and forth and we found the right blend and now they sell it at saltery online. And it's something I'm really proud of and excited because I love to support us businesses. I love to supp or it's small business, and this is a woman owned business, which is even better. So I'm very excited about it.
I mean, I'd love to plug it. But I still haven't received mine, so it's.
I was surprised, and did it shipped on the seventeenth out of ducks. I swear it's not coming from my.
House, Okay, I mean I Emily was saying that it was just so delicted. Can you put it on popcorn?
Yes, it's great on pop.
I love that. I love like special assaults on popcorn every y It's good. Well if I receive it one day? Now are the listeners what I think?
You start? You really? I swear I checked before. It's coming usps and it's left Duxbury, Massachusetts. Today is Tuesday. I think you'll have it.
By Thursday Thanksgiving. I'd like to have it by Thanksgiving. Me you'll have it by okay, this week? Beautiful, fabulous news. When are you gonna be back in New York?
I have a ticket to fly in on Christmas Day. I may come back like for a weekend before that, but at the very least I'll be there Christmas Day.
Well, please keep in touch with me because I just yes.
And do you ever come to La?
Yes? I do. I'm going to be in well, actually, Laguna is what Orange County for like a week in March. I always end up going to La because one of my best friends from college lives there. So yeah, you're gonna we have to get together. You promise I come? Can? I want to come on cooking and kidd sing, but also just separate, separate from that.
Come on cooking unch, and I've got a lovely guest room with you. Aaron Rugg and I have all the I do. Yeah, it's gorgeous.
I know. I hear the greatest things about her Rugs and Doug. Are you a drinker? Yeah?
I not, no, not, I do do a smoker. I'm a drinker. I love and New Groney, it's my favorite hoptail. I love that.
That's not a drink. Okay, what about you a smoker?
No?
Okay, so you're just no fun at all. It's okay. I don't stay at your house, but I'll see you for lunch. We'll go for lunch.
I've got all the recreational things you could want, but I need to be.
Don't take it.
I need to be.
I can hear that. I can hear that. Okay, my friend, I love you. Thank you for doing this. Thank you really appreciate it.
Okay. I always feel like it's diminished for turns with me. You're disappointed, aren't you.
I could tell you really think that? Is that really what you think? No, because that's such a me thing to think. I thought that right after Jeff Lewis, I was like I didn't do good enough. I wasn't this enough? You're really thinking that I always we are the same person. That is so sad. Anxiety you have, Pam, right, you have, and it's also what is a complex, it's ampostor, impostor. Yes, yeah, I have that too. I have that too. Yeah, there's no one this was. I mean, I think I'm not a listener. I'm just the host. But I was very interested in what we were talking about. I thought it was fascinating and adorable and fabulous.
Well you can have you should have only success with your product.
Thank you, my friend, thank you, thank you, Love you. Nah Lah feting into Jeff Lewis, Bye, everybody,
