Here at two Good Sports. We would like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which we record this podcast. The were innerie people. This land was never seated, always was always will be. Hello and welcome to too Good Sports. Sports news told differently. I'm Abby. Gentlemen. If you're thinking, why isn't Georgie Tunney doing the intro? Isn't that her gig? You're right it is. Georgie has decided to flee the coop. She's gone to America for a month, as you do. So, George, We're not missing you at all because I'm joined by my dear friend and colleague, Laura Speway. Laura, welcome, Hello, Abby, Yeah, it's great to be here. It is great to have you here now. Laura is one of the officionados in the seven newsroom across all sorts of sport. We're looking forward to having you on because it is a big week of AFL. It's a huge week. It is the best month of the year in Melbourne. September is so busy, there's such a vibe. It's my favorite time of the year for sure. We start off with a good sport and are a bad sport and our good sport for the week has to be Jack Buckley just guiding Isaac Keeney down after what was arguably the mark of the year. Now he flew Heeney and almost landed on his head, but it was Jack Buckley, of course from DWS that just nursed him to the ground and I thought, what a good sport. This has got worldwide attention. Yeah, the reaction to this has been insane. There's been sports people, commentators all over the world look at this and go, jeez, that was a good bloke thing to do. He didn't have to do that. There's a lot on the line. It was an incredible grab. I was about to say a question without notice here, should mark and Goal of the Year include finals? I think this comes up every year because the competition steps up in finals. The standard is obviously super high because you've got the best teams going at it. Yes, and so we always have these big game moments, and there were several in that game the Swans GWS. That was one. I think it's going to get harder to eliminate those games because you are getting these moments and they're not going to be recognized. Even Jeremy Cameron from the boundary, Yep had no right and yet it was just the most incredible goal. I think it needs to be included personally, Yep, I would agree. Otherwise you get this little feeling of like what we have with the rising Star when you don't have Harley Reid available and you're like, well, I mean, come on, we know that he is the best young player in the competition, so it sort of becomes like a novelty gift. Don't you reckon? Well? And Isaac Haney can't win the Brown Low, I know an incredible performance in that final was everywhere? Was everywhere. Now, Laura, I'm want to make you my good sport and ask you the questions that I get asked as a sports journalist, because I think when people love sport, and if you found your way too good sports, you'll probably do you think, j it'd be fun to be a sports journal How do you even start on that path? And what does your day look like? So? How did you find yourself in the seven newsroom covering sport? I always wanted to do sport. It was a goal of mine forever. I was not very good at sport. This has not come from any athletic ability whatsoever. I knew that former sham meant shock me. I'm about five foot nothing. I'm not a form or anything at all, So I have no athletic prowess in the slightest But I always loved watching it and watching everything, and I was like, Okay, I like watching I like talking about it more than my husband. So I used to find myself in these conversations with his mates, and I was more into it. But I always had other things going on, So I did a degree in media. I started in radio. I started in sort of talk radio, and then I found other jobs in TV. I was a producer for a while, I worked overseas. I worked in business news behind the scenes, and I was always desperate to find my way into sports, so I kind of did bits and pieces when I was a news reporter. And then finally there was an opening at Channel seven, and I think it was that classic thing of right person, right time, right place, and persistence. In my case, it was persistence because it is so competitive, isn't it. It's so competitive. I like to think that it's gotten a bit easier than it used to be, the fact that I could get into it after already having fifteen years in TV is unusual, but I got there, and so I managed to get the job at Channel seven. So I've been at seven sort of three and a half years. I'm in the newsroom, so we're very busy day to day. I was about to say, so's today's a workday. Yep, We've just had finals over the weekend. You might be going to a Hawks press conference. You might not. You might be going to an airport where you're very glamorously shared that you sit on a floor with a coffee waiting to see who might be possibly limping when they get off the plane. It's one of those days where you can really take a turn, pn't of you just never know what you're going to get. Yeah, you can have a plan, but those plans can go out the window if something happens. So you know, obviously at the moment, we've got our eye on the teams who are still in the finals. But then you've got you know, the Western Bulldogs that've got exit interviews. Do you want to declare that your dog is fan off the top or I think too heartbroken? I need to for the purposes of what we're going to discuss today, because I'm still a bit hard on sleeve. I'm still a bit upset about the result. In fairness, they didn't show up the way that I thought they were going to and the Hawks were too good. But yes, Western Bulldogs supported here. So today, for example, you know there'll be exit interviews this week, the players potentially out the door, so you know we'll be looking at that. But come six o'clock things can change. So you can find yourself in all sorts of unglamorous locations like car parks, like airports. Scans. Yes, scans is a big one, isn't it. You kind of feel like a little bit of a stalker, yes, just hoping that you get people wandering out of a medical appointment being like, hello, how are you feeling? Do you have a bandage on your knee? Is that limp? Or did you just fall over? Can you tell me about it? Yeah. So there's all these parts to the job which I think, you know, people aren't aware of, Like there's this perspective that it is a glamorous job. And don't get me wrong, it's a great job. It is. We get to talk about sport for a living. We have a lot of fun. Yeah, we get to be I was at the MCG on Friday night, ninety seven thousand people. Such a buzz and you were so happy on air because it was before the Dog's lost. Luckily I got my commitments out of the way. Pregame might have been a bit different after the game, but yeah, you've got to kind of put that aside, don't you. Like we all have allegiances, we've got teams that we follow, but in the job, the pendance is you don't have normal weekends, and when everyone else is driving home at five pm, we're ramping up for the news. So there is a bit of yin and yang to it. But if you love it the way that you've loved it your whole life, every now and then you find yourself just pinching yourself that you're in an office surrounded by other people that love what you love, having debates about what you think is going to happen, and you're like, just how cool is this? Yeah? I think for me, you know, I've done a lot of news reporting as well, and I just fundamentally wanted to do sport because it's not miserable. No, there's nothing in it, It's so true. Yeah, you have an interest in something that a lot of people have an interesting You can always have conversations with people and I find that everyone has something to say and fundamentally it's positive and particularly where we are, and of course we record in Melbourne, the sporting capital of the country. It dictates how people feel. It does stay today and we are going to ask some burning questions in our main deep dive this week, because my goodness, did the first week of finals deliver and it delivered some big questions. So we're going to get to those up next. Well, it is the best month of the year. It is September, the sun is starting to shine and it is finals football. And in the absence of our NRL loving friend see you later, George, we are going into a deep dive of the main discussion points to come out of the first week of the AFL Finals and Laura, I'm dying dying to discussed this because I can convince myself either way about this, so I need to know your thoughts. Jack Ginovan, is that an innocent night of just having a pub meal with mates or is it an unwonted distraction yet again for his team after what we know the history onics around what happened from last year's Grand Final when he decided to go to Mooney Valley and have a bit of a punt. Do we support this and can we support this? I am shaking my head like the nanner I am, which is a reflection on me. I just obviously I've declared I'm a Bulldogs fan, so this was even harder for me to swallow. I just don't understand how when you're in an industry where you have such a high level of performance expectation on your ability to perform as an athlete, that you can be in this situation. I'm not saying unwind, I'm not saying find a way to, you know, take your mind off what's ahead, but this particular setting, knowing that everybody knows who you are, putting yourself in that situation, I don't get it. So, for context, if you were under a rock over the weekend. Jack Innovan, who is probably the leader of the Hollywood Hawks in terms of this young brand of football that they're playing where they don't care they are who they are, we accept who you are, is a massive part of Hawthorne's brand that seems to be going amazingly for them. He decided to go to a pub and have a dinner with mates, and it just blew up because Joe Public has seen him and taken a photo of the fact that he had a beverage in his hand that sort of looks like perhaps a lemon lemon bitters if you squint, but it could have been alcoholic. No one knows. And again uproar. And this comes off the back of the discussion that we had last week about Christian Petrarca Georgie and I went into a deep dive about the fact that, you know, people are a little bit against the fact that he might be moving clubs for his personal brand. And now you've got a young man who said, oh, I messaged the coach and got it approved that I could go out and have a dinner. Is this just young people being young people and the fact that all athletes don't necessarily need to be Scott Pendlebury and be so militant in how they perform in order to do well. And my brain initially went, oh, mate, just if you have to text your boss, don't do it. And maybe that's the goody two shoes in me, but I can't imagine the night before having to perform at work thinking oh, I'm going to do something here and I might get in trouble for it. I'll just flick the boss a text. You just wouldn't do it. But is Jack Innovan one of those players that needs a little spice, needs a storyline leading into these big events because that's when he's most comfortable. Is he like a Michael Jordan that used to make up fake headlines and plant them in the paper so that he felt like everyone was against him when really they words, because that's when he performed his best, when there was a bit of anger. I mean Michael Jordan, Jackie, Michael Jordan. So I feel like a long but probably the longest bow anyone's ever falled. I'm just saying, if you're Michael Jordan, you could probably get away with anything. You could probably get away with anything. But look, he is an agitator. That's the personality that he is. I don't mind that. I think it spices things up, but I just think, don't you know what's going to come of this? Don't even know he does because he experienced it last year and it was arguably one of the catalysts for the fact that he moved on from Collingwood. But also and this is the annoying thing about it, or I shouldn't say annoying us. The reality is that they won the game, I know. And after his second goal he's celebrated by minding drinking a beer. It was just the biggest f you to anyone that had challenged him. And part of me and again working in news where you're looking for stories, he's our dream. He is a walking headline and he buys into it. Look, it is good for the game. I get the argument that it's great for the game to have these personalities. It makes it interesting, it keeps it dynamic. I wonder at some point if it does catch up with them, because yes, they've bought into the hole. Be yourselves will give you some rope. Some players need that, and there are probably players like that at most clubs, where they just need to be given a little bit more rope to perform. But in this club's case, they seem to have this. Everyone has rope, everyone's got rope. There are no there's no rope left. It's worked for them, though it has worked for them so far. I do wonder at some point if that continues, they will get older like the Luke brusts you know they're not doing that. They've been at Hawthorne and there's basically him and Jack Gunston left that are like high where you're over thirties club? Can you please help us out here? Yes? So yeah, for me, it's not something that I would have done. I know, I don't know if I would have approved it either. But then they won the game, and I think this leads into our next question of like Hockball and the Hollywood Hawks and just the ridiculousness of how successful they've been given the little expectations on them, understandably so because they seem to be without at the start of the season those stars, those anchors, and then they just have come out of nowhere, which has been incredible to see. But I laugh at the idea that Sam Mitchell was such a line and length person while he was playing and the fact that he's I think had to learn and adapting. You hear Luke Colldge of course, who was his premiership captain, say this is not the sam Mitchell that I played with and he's learnt to adapt and it's working for him. And I mean you look and they take on Port Adelaide if they if they win that game, they could potentially be in the Grand Final because the Swans are gettable for them. This is it's just it's unbelievable. It has to be the story of the season. It is easily from seventeenth to finals. If you look at the Hawk merch that they're now putting out of which I think the players actually get. I think Jack actually gets a cut of the Hawk merch. I want like, I'm on board. I'm on board as much as I feel four hundred years old, because I would be that person that has the same spag bowl and make sure I'm in bed by eight thirty. I love it. I absolutely love it. But speaking of older teams, and I think of them as older teams, but really it wasn't their veterans that got them over the line. The question is another burning question. Will Geelong ever rebuild in a system that is designed that what goes up must come down Ie there are draft picks, and also the schedule itself puts itself against you because there needs to be a cycle of who's at the top. This team just seems to consistently perform. In addition to that, Chris Scott needs to be studied. Yeah, he hates the R word, by the way, hates rebuild. Hates the R word, or you would have experienced have you said rebuild and copped it from him? I have not per personally, but you've seen it. So midyear, when you know the ledger wasn't necessarily great, he was asked, last five in a row, didn't they? Yeah, so they did, and he was asked about it and he said, we haven't done that in fourteen years. You haven't, so we're not going to do it now. And the thing is they haven't had to because they've found a way to be consistently successful. And the thing about that is that when you have that record, and you have a coach with his record, you don't have a problem attracting players to your club. So they've been able to attract the young talent who have performed very well this season. There are a couple in the final last week Sean Manor was outstanding. He came up through the VFL, so he had to wait to get his spot, came in had a huge game last week. So they've got this talent there who is coming through, who is able to offset the Dad's army as they call them. And because they seem to have this culture and this vibe which is more relaxed than the teams in the city. It's different, and you notice it when you go down there. You notice it when you see them at the airport, like they're one of the few teams, if not the only team that wears City's on planes. Oh really yep, And that's something that Chris Scott's endorsed. So they have these quirks about them that are a little bit more laid back, and I think that's very attractive. And because he's done so well, he's got people wanting to come and play for him, and that means that they don't need to look at the draft all the time because they're an attractive prospect and they don't necessarily need to pay overs. No, because if you want to get a star player to go to the Gold Coast, arguably you have to pay attax that they are going to take themselves out of the market for geelong. If you want to have a hobby farm and a couple of cows and a relaxed life that also be in Victoria. They seem to get these great players and pay never above market value, do they, which is so helpful with the salary cap Well, they've just made smart decisions. Yeah, I mean getting Jeremy Cameron, I know, and getting Patrick Dangers playing like he was twenty one against Port and it has to be said they be Port Adelaide by eighty four points. It was an absolute pansying and poor Port Adelaide. Because this again leads into our next question of Ken Hinckley. Has ever a coach coached a team to be second on the ladder and then been under this amount of pressure because he consistently performs well during the season and Port Adelaide consistently are there or thereabouts in the top four, but they get to the finals and they choke, and I just wonder if Ken Hinckley's going There's only so many different ways that I can try to present this where I just don't know what's happening. And I think the other thing is like when your own fans have booed you earlier this season, which I mean it's a crap thing for any coach to have to go through. And then he performs and they finished second on the ladder and so and he was tearful and the players got around him and it was you know, it was a special moment to see how much the players meant him be. You're right, he has been under this scrutiny all year when his contract was only affirmed in August of last year. But at some point you have to look at the KPIs and you have to say, all right, every club's KPI is I want to win flag. Some clubs recognize it's going to take longer. But then you look at Hawthorne and you go maybe not, maybe not. And they owned the r word, they owned the rebuild. But Ken Hinckley holds the record for most games coach without a Grand Final, so that's twelve seasons and you just think, oh, it would be so uncomfortable. And he's the first person to own it. Because after the match again where we mentioned they got absolutely smashed by Geelong on Thursday, he was questioned about if their poor showing in finals recently had come from mental issues and he said, look, I can appreciate that question because they're the facts, and we deal in facts. The reality is we believe this group are better than that. But for the next twenty four hours we have to live with that performance. We have to live with the fact that our last three or four finals haven't been at the level we need them to be. Those questions come and once those games turn it badly. So he's basically going, well, I think we have to wear this because the performances aren't there, and my goodness, they're up against a Hawks team that have nothing to lose, whereas port Alaide have their coach to lose. I think at some point they have to look at it, and they can't just go who do we have in our ranks that could come up and be the next Ken Hinckley. I find that when you know you're looking at assistant coaches within your side, they've already played in your system. They've already been exposed to one way of thinking. How easy would it be for them to break out of that mold and create something dynamic, creates something new. I don't know if you can do that if you've got somebody who's already been in that system. So I think he'll be under scrutiny rightly. So, I mean they haven't played that game yet, but the Hawks are on fire. They had the home ground advantage and they lost by eighty four points. Yeah, so this is a crust room and Adelaide it's a two team town. Like you think the word dictated by AFL here it is life in Adelaide. And the fact that they've come out and basically already said that Josh Carr is going to be our next coach. They've all but affirmed that, and he's currently their midfield coach and he has a decorated history of being First off, he was at Port Adelaide, went to North Adelaide, went to Frio and then back to Port and of course he was a player as well in his own time. But they've basically come out and said this is going to be picking from within, so the culture is not going to change. Well, I mean, you know the Hawks sort of did that with Sam Mitchell, didn't they. Yes, And I mean it's an interesting question for me how they might have been this year if Alistair Clarkson was still at the Helm. I think it would have been so different. Whether he would have been You can't imagine Clarko saying go for a bersun, you'll be fine, just even just embracing the young flashiness, right. But anyway, Yes, I think with Ken Hinckley, you know, he's been around long enough to know that at some point is going to come up. They're going to have enough and they're going to say, you know what, Yes, you've got a good record of getting us to finals, but ultimately we're not here just to keep doing that. It's bizarre to think that over his career where he was appointed as the senior coach in twenty thirteen, so you're talking like eleven years of service. If they win their next two games, all of a sudden, he's a hero. Yep. That's the role. That's the game, isn't it. That's the role. It's unforgiving, there's no patience. Sometimes, speaking of unforgiving and no patience, the Swan's our minor premiers absolutely copped it towards the tail end of the season about the fact that they'd peaked too early. They were so strong and then they were fading away. They were so gettable all of a sudden, And I know you were covering the game on the weekend seeing the office going, oh my god, they're coming back, and I've got to recut this package so that I've got to change the narrative because every sign looked like GWS, we're going to take that home. And the Swans now all of a sudden, win their way through and they have to be Premiership favorites. I would say after the week, and they have to be. If you'd ask me towards the end of the home and away season, would have said no, I agree. But you know they've got their players back that they were missing. They found their mojo again. I mean it's very hard for a team to maintain the level that they did through the whole season. They were the hunted. They were the hunted and that's a hard tag to carry, as Collingwood found out this year. But they just stood up. They found a way. Their midfield stars just delivered. Isaac Keeney are just the guy is not human. No, it was an incredible and doesn't look human. No, he looks like the pinup boy and he's just he's actually the nicest person as well, Isaac, Like, he's just you couldn't hope for a better ambassador for your club. Yep. And I think after that performance backs against the wall and finding a way, Yeah, finding a way when it mattered, and that's all you need, you know, you get little bit of belief that momentum. Three quarters, as Adam Kingsley, the GWS coach said, you can play three quarters of really good footage, which they did, and it doesn't matter, yeah, because if you come out on top in the end, that's what matters. And so for me, as much as we talk about you know, Hawthorne being hard to beat, given the belief, I think, you know, Sydney's just got a lot more experience. They've got a coach who has a ton of finals experience as well, has obviously won flags. So for me, if they can continue to find those players in those moments which they have been, yes, then they're going to stand up. They've got a home final, a home preliminary final, so they get a break now and then they get to play at the SCG again. They can probably go in the Geelong basket of my god, do you ever rebuild like Sydney always there and thereabouts? Which again to be doing that in a non AFL state and the fact that there is definitely a Sydney tax you pay on getting players to go up and be in New South Wales because cost of living is so much higher and you're taking people out of an AFL market. Like I remember when I was living in Sydney, I saw the entire group of Swans at a pub and not a single person with to them and bothered them. And I just thought, oh my gosh, if you were in Melbourne there would be a line for selfies. So that does appeal to some people, but you are in a demo where it is hard and to see that packed scg for what was an all New South Wales final, and then for me it was to see that the next day Isaac Keeney was actually on the cover of the Daily Telly, which again just doesn't happen in New South Wales. They've managed to have such a cut through and now you're looking and you're just going, okay, So this team not only could be near about the Grand Final again, but we could also have It's very plausible a Giants Swan's Grand Final and I think the AFL would love it that Melbourne would be like, wait what Melbourne would hate it? We would hate it. Victorians would just be like, well, who are we throwing a parade for? We have been robbed? We have you know, like, isn't that just the marvel of it? Yep? And that's the season though, right Yeah. It once again comes back to this conversation of what has this year been? How many curveballs? Have we been thrown Oh it is just going to have no right to be there, you know what, They absolutely no right and yet they're up against it in my view against GWS. I think GWS will be devastated after what happened on the weekend. And I actually pegged them as Premiership favorites before the season began. I thought, no, this is going to be there, and they started so well. They were my pick and it's going to age very well if they get up. But I'm also on the Giants bandwagon, I agree, so I think, Yeah, I still think at the moment, based on that performance on the weekend that Sydney, you'd fear them, You one hundred percent would go. Look at those players, look at how they lift when they need to, and the coach is just so seasoned. Yes, at this time of year. I mean, I do think back to the twenty twenty two Granny where they just didn't rock up and we could see a Geelong Swan's Grand Final again and how different it would look. Or twenty sixteen when the Dogs beat them. Oh, there it is. It is to drop that in. I'm going to put you on the spot because speaking of things aging, well, who do you think is going to be in the Grand Final? Okay, so if we're looking at the we're looking we've got we've got our chart in front of us, which is so handy to see where all the finals sort of play out. And what we're looking at this is the mind map. What do you reckon? So you're looking at the Swan's playing either the Hawks or Port Adelaide in a prelim in Sydney though, so for mine, I think the Swans they'd win that I reckon they'll go through. And then you've got Geelong playing either the Lions or Gws at the mcg The Lions that held Carlton's schooreless while they ran away to sixty points. It was a demolishing but you could argue they barely paid a final and that's at the Gabba. Yeah, so given that games at the mcgin, So so I think that I think it'll be a Giants Geelong prelim. That's a tough one to call. Look, the Victorian in me is going to say Geelong. I'm going to will that we get the Victorian team in the final. So Geelong Swans, Geelong Swans. And then do we have the same result we had two years ago. Imagine if Geelong do it, I mean, that would be amazing. But also, you know, being Tom Hawkins and not knowing if you're going to play in that side in your final season is a little bit. He's about the narrative to come out of it because he played in the VFL on the weekend kicked one. He's announced that he is going to be retiring, but he's just going to see what happens. And I wonder, because Chris Scott is famously a loyal coach and an emotional coach that sticks by his people. I wonder how difficult it is, given how well they performed against Port Adelaide, to roll the dice and include someone who changes your forward line so much. But he is a champion and a games record holder of your club. I think in a Grand final sentiment goes out the way. See I would say, I think in a Grand final sentiment so important. I think it is. But you want to win the flag. That is your objective. Your objective is you lift the cup and you need But he wouldn't, Tomahawk wouldn't. I don't know. Ah they do have a very good relationship. Chris Scott and Tom Hawkins. They are very close. He's the People's champion. Yeah, so you know they're very possibly could be away in our hypothetical land that they make the Grand Final, that he is selected. But I think you want to win that flag. That's what you're there for. And we have touched on only a few, genuinely, only a few of the storylines in the lead up to that moment and that flag. And that's why we love our job so much, because you feel like you can blink and you could spend hours talking about all these different narratives. But the beautiful thing about two good sports is that we only dig this back up if it ages well, Laura, So this can go into oblivion now like and if you end up to be an absolute messiah on how that you've called this, we will make sure that it's clipped up for you. But thank you so much for that. We've absolutely loved it, and I guess we're just gonna wait and see. But you've got an airport to go to, don't you, or a press conference or somewhere to sit on the floor. That's my glamorous life, you know it. We love it, Hey, Laura, we have a segment called fun fact, So would you like to hear a fun fact? And usually Georgie drives this one, but I have got one for you and it's AFL themed. Love it ready. So Fitzroy, we are going back to nineteen sixteen when they won the Wooden Spoon and also the flag in the same year. You think nineteen sixteen, what was going on in the world, Well, World War One and so many players were at war that there's only four clubs that could beat and then Fitzroy came fourth on the ladder but actually went on to win the flag. So maybe that's an omen for the Lions potentially. I mean, if all it takes is war to win a flag, oh my goodness, you forget what the AFL has actually been through, or that there would have been times where there were players that actually had to go off and fight in war. It's actually quite unbelievable. It is unbelievable, and it's just how it's changed in that time. And I think this is a good reminder that previously players had other stuff they had to do to make a living, and now serve their country and serve their country. It's probably a good reminder for us all really, isn't it. But that's wild. I also think it just reminds you of the history, Like there's something about I know you and I are footy people, when it's so nice to say footy and not have to qualify that. I'm not talking about NRL again, Tunney, I miss you. But also this is you've got to reflect what state that we're in. But there is such as drawid history and those that get to lift the you're part of that folklore forever. And I just looked at that and I went, what do you mean that you could possibly win the wooden spoon but also come home with the flag. But that is our fun fact. Thank you for listening to Too Good Sports. It's an iHeart production. Laura. I'm going to rope you in for another one of these, so we'll see how we go. You can follow us on Instagram at two Good Sports Podcasts. We'll catch you next week, but until then, be good Sport.

Here at two Good Sports. We would like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which we record this podcast. The were innerie people. This land was never seated, always was always will be. Hello and welcome to too Good Sports. Sports news told differently. I'm Abby. Gentlemen. If you're thinking, why isn't Georgie Tunney doing the intro? Isn't that her gig? You're right it is. Georgie has decided to flee the coop. She's gone to America for a month, as you do. So, George, We're not missing you at all because I'm joined by my dear friend and colleague, Laura Speway. Laura, welcome, Hello, Abby, Yeah, it's great to be here. It is great to have you here now. Laura is one of the officionados in the seven newsroom across all sorts of sport. We're looking forward to having you on because it is a big week of AFL. It's a huge week. It is the best month of the year in Melbourne. September is so busy, there's such a vibe. It's my favorite time of the year for sure. We start off with a good sport and are a bad sport and our good sport for the week has to be Jack Buckley just guiding Isaac Keeney down after what was arguably the mark of the year. Now he flew Heeney and almost landed on his head, but it was Jack Buckley, of course from DWS that just nursed him to the ground and I thought, what a good sport. This has got worldwide attention. Yeah, the reaction to this has been insane. There's been sports people, commentators all over the world look at this and go, jeez, that was a good bloke thing to do. He didn't have to do that. There's a lot on the line. It was an incredible grab. I was about to say a question without notice here, should mark and Goal of the Year include finals? I think this comes up every year because the competition steps up in finals. The standard is obviously super high because you've got the best teams going at it. Yes, and so we always have these big game moments, and there were several in that game the Swans GWS. That was one. I think it's going to get harder to eliminate those games because you are getting these moments and they're not going to be recognized. Even Jeremy Cameron from the boundary, Yep had no right and yet it was just the most incredible goal. I think it needs to be included personally, Yep, I would agree. Otherwise you get this little feeling of like what we have with the rising Star when you don't have Harley Reid available and you're like, well, I mean, come on, we know that he is the best young player in the competition, so it sort of becomes like a novelty gift. Don't you reckon? Well? And Isaac Haney can't win the Brown Low, I know an incredible performance in that final was everywhere? Was everywhere. Now, Laura, I'm want to make you my good sport and ask you the questions that I get asked as a sports journalist, because I think when people love sport, and if you found your way too good sports, you'll probably do you think, j it'd be fun to be a sports journal How do you even start on that path? And what does your day look like? So? How did you find yourself in the seven newsroom covering sport? I always wanted to do sport. It was a goal of mine forever. I was not very good at sport. This has not come from any athletic ability whatsoever. I knew that former sham meant shock me. I'm about five foot nothing. I'm not a form or anything at all, So I have no athletic prowess in the slightest But I always loved watching it and watching everything, and I was like, Okay, I like watching I like talking about it more than my husband. So I used to find myself in these conversations with his mates, and I was more into it. But I always had other things going on, So I did a degree in media. I started in radio. I started in sort of talk radio, and then I found other jobs in TV. I was a producer for a while, I worked overseas. I worked in business news behind the scenes, and I was always desperate to find my way into sports, so I kind of did bits and pieces when I was a news reporter. And then finally there was an opening at Channel seven, and I think it was that classic thing of right person, right time, right place, and persistence. In my case, it was persistence because it is so competitive, isn't it. It's so competitive. I like to think that it's gotten a bit easier than it used to be, the fact that I could get into it after already having fifteen years in TV is unusual, but I got there, and so I managed to get the job at Channel seven. So I've been at seven sort of three and a half years. I'm in the newsroom, so we're very busy day to day. I was about to say, so's today's a workday. Yep, We've just had finals over the weekend. You might be going to a Hawks press conference. You might not. You might be going to an airport where you're very glamorously shared that you sit on a floor with a coffee waiting to see who might be possibly limping when they get off the plane. It's one of those days where you can really take a turn, pn't of you just never know what you're going to get. Yeah, you can have a plan, but those plans can go out the window if something happens. So you know, obviously at the moment, we've got our eye on the teams who are still in the finals. But then you've got you know, the Western Bulldogs that've got exit interviews. Do you want to declare that your dog is fan off the top or I think too heartbroken? I need to for the purposes of what we're going to discuss today, because I'm still a bit hard on sleeve. I'm still a bit upset about the result. In fairness, they didn't show up the way that I thought they were going to and the Hawks were too good. But yes, Western Bulldogs supported here. So today, for example, you know there'll be exit interviews this week, the players potentially out the door, so you know we'll be looking at that. But come six o'clock things can change. So you can find yourself in all sorts of unglamorous locations like car parks, like airports. Scans. Yes, scans is a big one, isn't it. You kind of feel like a little bit of a stalker, yes, just hoping that you get people wandering out of a medical appointment being like, hello, how are you feeling? Do you have a bandage on your knee? Is that limp? Or did you just fall over? Can you tell me about it? Yeah. So there's all these parts to the job which I think, you know, people aren't aware of, Like there's this perspective that it is a glamorous job. And don't get me wrong, it's a great job. It is. We get to talk about sport for a living. We have a lot of fun. Yeah, we get to be I was at the MCG on Friday night, ninety seven thousand people. Such a buzz and you were so happy on air because it was before the Dog's lost. Luckily I got my commitments out of the way. Pregame might have been a bit different after the game, but yeah, you've got to kind of put that aside, don't you. Like we all have allegiances, we've got teams that we follow, but in the job, the pendance is you don't have normal weekends, and when everyone else is driving home at five pm, we're ramping up for the news. So there is a bit of yin and yang to it. But if you love it the way that you've loved it your whole life, every now and then you find yourself just pinching yourself that you're in an office surrounded by other people that love what you love, having debates about what you think is going to happen, and you're like, just how cool is this? Yeah? I think for me, you know, I've done a lot of news reporting as well, and I just fundamentally wanted to do sport because it's not miserable. No, there's nothing in it, It's so true. Yeah, you have an interest in something that a lot of people have an interesting You can always have conversations with people and I find that everyone has something to say and fundamentally it's positive and particularly where we are, and of course we record in Melbourne, the sporting capital of the country. It dictates how people feel. It does stay today and we are going to ask some burning questions in our main deep dive this week, because my goodness, did the first week of finals deliver and it delivered some big questions. So we're going to get to those up next. Well, it is the best month of the year. It is September, the sun is starting to shine and it is finals football. And in the absence of our NRL loving friend see you later, George, we are going into a deep dive of the main discussion points to come out of the first week of the AFL Finals and Laura, I'm dying dying to discussed this because I can convince myself either way about this, so I need to know your thoughts. Jack Ginovan, is that an innocent night of just having a pub meal with mates or is it an unwonted distraction yet again for his team after what we know the history onics around what happened from last year's Grand Final when he decided to go to Mooney Valley and have a bit of a punt. Do we support this and can we support this? I am shaking my head like the nanner I am, which is a reflection on me. I just obviously I've declared I'm a Bulldogs fan, so this was even harder for me to swallow. I just don't understand how when you're in an industry where you have such a high level of performance expectation on your ability to perform as an athlete, that you can be in this situation. I'm not saying unwind, I'm not saying find a way to, you know, take your mind off what's ahead, but this particular setting, knowing that everybody knows who you are, putting yourself in that situation, I don't get it. So, for context, if you were under a rock over the weekend. Jack Innovan, who is probably the leader of the Hollywood Hawks in terms of this young brand of football that they're playing where they don't care they are who they are, we accept who you are, is a massive part of Hawthorne's brand that seems to be going amazingly for them. He decided to go to a pub and have a dinner with mates, and it just blew up because Joe Public has seen him and taken a photo of the fact that he had a beverage in his hand that sort of looks like perhaps a lemon lemon bitters if you squint, but it could have been alcoholic. No one knows. And again uproar. And this comes off the back of the discussion that we had last week about Christian Petrarca Georgie and I went into a deep dive about the fact that, you know, people are a little bit against the fact that he might be moving clubs for his personal brand. And now you've got a young man who said, oh, I messaged the coach and got it approved that I could go out and have a dinner. Is this just young people being young people and the fact that all athletes don't necessarily need to be Scott Pendlebury and be so militant in how they perform in order to do well. And my brain initially went, oh, mate, just if you have to text your boss, don't do it. And maybe that's the goody two shoes in me, but I can't imagine the night before having to perform at work thinking oh, I'm going to do something here and I might get in trouble for it. I'll just flick the boss a text. You just wouldn't do it. But is Jack Innovan one of those players that needs a little spice, needs a storyline leading into these big events because that's when he's most comfortable. Is he like a Michael Jordan that used to make up fake headlines and plant them in the paper so that he felt like everyone was against him when really they words, because that's when he performed his best, when there was a bit of anger. I mean Michael Jordan, Jackie, Michael Jordan. So I feel like a long but probably the longest bow anyone's ever falled. I'm just saying, if you're Michael Jordan, you could probably get away with anything. You could probably get away with anything. But look, he is an agitator. That's the personality that he is. I don't mind that. I think it spices things up, but I just think, don't you know what's going to come of this? Don't even know he does because he experienced it last year and it was arguably one of the catalysts for the fact that he moved on from Collingwood. But also and this is the annoying thing about it, or I shouldn't say annoying us. The reality is that they won the game, I know. And after his second goal he's celebrated by minding drinking a beer. It was just the biggest f you to anyone that had challenged him. And part of me and again working in news where you're looking for stories, he's our dream. He is a walking headline and he buys into it. Look, it is good for the game. I get the argument that it's great for the game to have these personalities. It makes it interesting, it keeps it dynamic. I wonder at some point if it does catch up with them, because yes, they've bought into the hole. Be yourselves will give you some rope. Some players need that, and there are probably players like that at most clubs, where they just need to be given a little bit more rope to perform. But in this club's case, they seem to have this. Everyone has rope, everyone's got rope. There are no there's no rope left. It's worked for them, though it has worked for them so far. I do wonder at some point if that continues, they will get older like the Luke brusts you know they're not doing that. They've been at Hawthorne and there's basically him and Jack Gunston left that are like high where you're over thirties club? Can you please help us out here? Yes? So yeah, for me, it's not something that I would have done. I know, I don't know if I would have approved it either. But then they won the game, and I think this leads into our next question of like Hockball and the Hollywood Hawks and just the ridiculousness of how successful they've been given the little expectations on them, understandably so because they seem to be without at the start of the season those stars, those anchors, and then they just have come out of nowhere, which has been incredible to see. But I laugh at the idea that Sam Mitchell was such a line and length person while he was playing and the fact that he's I think had to learn and adapting. You hear Luke Colldge of course, who was his premiership captain, say this is not the sam Mitchell that I played with and he's learnt to adapt and it's working for him. And I mean you look and they take on Port Adelaide if they if they win that game, they could potentially be in the Grand Final because the Swans are gettable for them. This is it's just it's unbelievable. It has to be the story of the season. It is easily from seventeenth to finals. If you look at the Hawk merch that they're now putting out of which I think the players actually get. I think Jack actually gets a cut of the Hawk merch. I want like, I'm on board. I'm on board as much as I feel four hundred years old, because I would be that person that has the same spag bowl and make sure I'm in bed by eight thirty. I love it. I absolutely love it. But speaking of older teams, and I think of them as older teams, but really it wasn't their veterans that got them over the line. The question is another burning question. Will Geelong ever rebuild in a system that is designed that what goes up must come down Ie there are draft picks, and also the schedule itself puts itself against you because there needs to be a cycle of who's at the top. This team just seems to consistently perform. In addition to that, Chris Scott needs to be studied. Yeah, he hates the R word, by the way, hates rebuild. Hates the R word, or you would have experienced have you said rebuild and copped it from him? I have not per personally, but you've seen it. So midyear, when you know the ledger wasn't necessarily great, he was asked, last five in a row, didn't they? Yeah, so they did, and he was asked about it and he said, we haven't done that in fourteen years. You haven't, so we're not going to do it now. And the thing is they haven't had to because they've found a way to be consistently successful. And the thing about that is that when you have that record, and you have a coach with his record, you don't have a problem attracting players to your club. So they've been able to attract the young talent who have performed very well this season. There are a couple in the final last week Sean Manor was outstanding. He came up through the VFL, so he had to wait to get his spot, came in had a huge game last week. So they've got this talent there who is coming through, who is able to offset the Dad's army as they call them. And because they seem to have this culture and this vibe which is more relaxed than the teams in the city. It's different, and you notice it when you go down there. You notice it when you see them at the airport, like they're one of the few teams, if not the only team that wears City's on planes. Oh really yep, And that's something that Chris Scott's endorsed. So they have these quirks about them that are a little bit more laid back, and I think that's very attractive. And because he's done so well, he's got people wanting to come and play for him, and that means that they don't need to look at the draft all the time because they're an attractive prospect and they don't necessarily need to pay overs. No, because if you want to get a star player to go to the Gold Coast, arguably you have to pay attax that they are going to take themselves out of the market for geelong. If you want to have a hobby farm and a couple of cows and a relaxed life that also be in Victoria. They seem to get these great players and pay never above market value, do they, which is so helpful with the salary cap Well, they've just made smart decisions. Yeah, I mean getting Jeremy Cameron, I know, and getting Patrick Dangers playing like he was twenty one against Port and it has to be said they be Port Adelaide by eighty four points. It was an absolute pansying and poor Port Adelaide. Because this again leads into our next question of Ken Hinckley. Has ever a coach coached a team to be second on the ladder and then been under this amount of pressure because he consistently performs well during the season and Port Adelaide consistently are there or thereabouts in the top four, but they get to the finals and they choke, and I just wonder if Ken Hinckley's going There's only so many different ways that I can try to present this where I just don't know what's happening. And I think the other thing is like when your own fans have booed you earlier this season, which I mean it's a crap thing for any coach to have to go through. And then he performs and they finished second on the ladder and so and he was tearful and the players got around him and it was you know, it was a special moment to see how much the players meant him be. You're right, he has been under this scrutiny all year when his contract was only affirmed in August of last year. But at some point you have to look at the KPIs and you have to say, all right, every club's KPI is I want to win flag. Some clubs recognize it's going to take longer. But then you look at Hawthorne and you go maybe not, maybe not. And they owned the r word, they owned the rebuild. But Ken Hinckley holds the record for most games coach without a Grand Final, so that's twelve seasons and you just think, oh, it would be so uncomfortable. And he's the first person to own it. Because after the match again where we mentioned they got absolutely smashed by Geelong on Thursday, he was questioned about if their poor showing in finals recently had come from mental issues and he said, look, I can appreciate that question because they're the facts, and we deal in facts. The reality is we believe this group are better than that. But for the next twenty four hours we have to live with that performance. We have to live with the fact that our last three or four finals haven't been at the level we need them to be. Those questions come and once those games turn it badly. So he's basically going, well, I think we have to wear this because the performances aren't there, and my goodness, they're up against a Hawks team that have nothing to lose, whereas port Alaide have their coach to lose. I think at some point they have to look at it, and they can't just go who do we have in our ranks that could come up and be the next Ken Hinckley. I find that when you know you're looking at assistant coaches within your side, they've already played in your system. They've already been exposed to one way of thinking. How easy would it be for them to break out of that mold and create something dynamic, creates something new. I don't know if you can do that if you've got somebody who's already been in that system. So I think he'll be under scrutiny rightly. So, I mean they haven't played that game yet, but the Hawks are on fire. They had the home ground advantage and they lost by eighty four points. Yeah, so this is a crust room and Adelaide it's a two team town. Like you think the word dictated by AFL here it is life in Adelaide. And the fact that they've come out and basically already said that Josh Carr is going to be our next coach. They've all but affirmed that, and he's currently their midfield coach and he has a decorated history of being First off, he was at Port Adelaide, went to North Adelaide, went to Frio and then back to Port and of course he was a player as well in his own time. But they've basically come out and said this is going to be picking from within, so the culture is not going to change. Well, I mean, you know the Hawks sort of did that with Sam Mitchell, didn't they. Yes, And I mean it's an interesting question for me how they might have been this year if Alistair Clarkson was still at the Helm. I think it would have been so different. Whether he would have been You can't imagine Clarko saying go for a bersun, you'll be fine, just even just embracing the young flashiness, right. But anyway, Yes, I think with Ken Hinckley, you know, he's been around long enough to know that at some point is going to come up. They're going to have enough and they're going to say, you know what, Yes, you've got a good record of getting us to finals, but ultimately we're not here just to keep doing that. It's bizarre to think that over his career where he was appointed as the senior coach in twenty thirteen, so you're talking like eleven years of service. If they win their next two games, all of a sudden, he's a hero. Yep. That's the role. That's the game, isn't it. That's the role. It's unforgiving, there's no patience. Sometimes, speaking of unforgiving and no patience, the Swan's our minor premiers absolutely copped it towards the tail end of the season about the fact that they'd peaked too early. They were so strong and then they were fading away. They were so gettable all of a sudden, And I know you were covering the game on the weekend seeing the office going, oh my god, they're coming back, and I've got to recut this package so that I've got to change the narrative because every sign looked like GWS, we're going to take that home. And the Swans now all of a sudden, win their way through and they have to be Premiership favorites. I would say after the week, and they have to be. If you'd ask me towards the end of the home and away season, would have said no, I agree. But you know they've got their players back that they were missing. They found their mojo again. I mean it's very hard for a team to maintain the level that they did through the whole season. They were the hunted. They were the hunted and that's a hard tag to carry, as Collingwood found out this year. But they just stood up. They found a way. Their midfield stars just delivered. Isaac Keeney are just the guy is not human. No, it was an incredible and doesn't look human. No, he looks like the pinup boy and he's just he's actually the nicest person as well, Isaac, Like, he's just you couldn't hope for a better ambassador for your club. Yep. And I think after that performance backs against the wall and finding a way, Yeah, finding a way when it mattered, and that's all you need, you know, you get little bit of belief that momentum. Three quarters, as Adam Kingsley, the GWS coach said, you can play three quarters of really good footage, which they did, and it doesn't matter, yeah, because if you come out on top in the end, that's what matters. And so for me, as much as we talk about you know, Hawthorne being hard to beat, given the belief, I think, you know, Sydney's just got a lot more experience. They've got a coach who has a ton of finals experience as well, has obviously won flags. So for me, if they can continue to find those players in those moments which they have been, yes, then they're going to stand up. They've got a home final, a home preliminary final, so they get a break now and then they get to play at the SCG again. They can probably go in the Geelong basket of my god, do you ever rebuild like Sydney always there and thereabouts? Which again to be doing that in a non AFL state and the fact that there is definitely a Sydney tax you pay on getting players to go up and be in New South Wales because cost of living is so much higher and you're taking people out of an AFL market. Like I remember when I was living in Sydney, I saw the entire group of Swans at a pub and not a single person with to them and bothered them. And I just thought, oh my gosh, if you were in Melbourne there would be a line for selfies. So that does appeal to some people, but you are in a demo where it is hard and to see that packed scg for what was an all New South Wales final, and then for me it was to see that the next day Isaac Keeney was actually on the cover of the Daily Telly, which again just doesn't happen in New South Wales. They've managed to have such a cut through and now you're looking and you're just going, okay, So this team not only could be near about the Grand Final again, but we could also have It's very plausible a Giants Swan's Grand Final and I think the AFL would love it that Melbourne would be like, wait what Melbourne would hate it? We would hate it. Victorians would just be like, well, who are we throwing a parade for? We have been robbed? We have you know, like, isn't that just the marvel of it? Yep? And that's the season though, right Yeah. It once again comes back to this conversation of what has this year been? How many curveballs? Have we been thrown Oh it is just going to have no right to be there, you know what, They absolutely no right and yet they're up against it in my view against GWS. I think GWS will be devastated after what happened on the weekend. And I actually pegged them as Premiership favorites before the season began. I thought, no, this is going to be there, and they started so well. They were my pick and it's going to age very well if they get up. But I'm also on the Giants bandwagon, I agree, so I think, Yeah, I still think at the moment, based on that performance on the weekend that Sydney, you'd fear them, You one hundred percent would go. Look at those players, look at how they lift when they need to, and the coach is just so seasoned. Yes, at this time of year. I mean, I do think back to the twenty twenty two Granny where they just didn't rock up and we could see a Geelong Swan's Grand Final again and how different it would look. Or twenty sixteen when the Dogs beat them. Oh, there it is. It is to drop that in. I'm going to put you on the spot because speaking of things aging, well, who do you think is going to be in the Grand Final? Okay, so if we're looking at the we're looking we've got we've got our chart in front of us, which is so handy to see where all the finals sort of play out. And what we're looking at this is the mind map. What do you reckon? So you're looking at the Swan's playing either the Hawks or Port Adelaide in a prelim in Sydney though, so for mine, I think the Swans they'd win that I reckon they'll go through. And then you've got Geelong playing either the Lions or Gws at the mcg The Lions that held Carlton's schooreless while they ran away to sixty points. It was a demolishing but you could argue they barely paid a final and that's at the Gabba. Yeah, so given that games at the mcgin, So so I think that I think it'll be a Giants Geelong prelim. That's a tough one to call. Look, the Victorian in me is going to say Geelong. I'm going to will that we get the Victorian team in the final. So Geelong Swans, Geelong Swans. And then do we have the same result we had two years ago. Imagine if Geelong do it, I mean, that would be amazing. But also, you know, being Tom Hawkins and not knowing if you're going to play in that side in your final season is a little bit. He's about the narrative to come out of it because he played in the VFL on the weekend kicked one. He's announced that he is going to be retiring, but he's just going to see what happens. And I wonder, because Chris Scott is famously a loyal coach and an emotional coach that sticks by his people. I wonder how difficult it is, given how well they performed against Port Adelaide, to roll the dice and include someone who changes your forward line so much. But he is a champion and a games record holder of your club. I think in a Grand final sentiment goes out the way. See I would say, I think in a Grand final sentiment so important. I think it is. But you want to win the flag. That is your objective. Your objective is you lift the cup and you need But he wouldn't, Tomahawk wouldn't. I don't know. Ah they do have a very good relationship. Chris Scott and Tom Hawkins. They are very close. He's the People's champion. Yeah, so you know they're very possibly could be away in our hypothetical land that they make the Grand Final, that he is selected. But I think you want to win that flag. That's what you're there for. And we have touched on only a few, genuinely, only a few of the storylines in the lead up to that moment and that flag. And that's why we love our job so much, because you feel like you can blink and you could spend hours talking about all these different narratives. But the beautiful thing about two good sports is that we only dig this back up if it ages well, Laura, So this can go into oblivion now like and if you end up to be an absolute messiah on how that you've called this, we will make sure that it's clipped up for you. But thank you so much for that. We've absolutely loved it, and I guess we're just gonna wait and see. But you've got an airport to go to, don't you, or a press conference or somewhere to sit on the floor. That's my glamorous life, you know it. We love it, Hey, Laura, we have a segment called fun fact, So would you like to hear a fun fact? And usually Georgie drives this one, but I have got one for you and it's AFL themed. Love it ready. So Fitzroy, we are going back to nineteen sixteen when they won the Wooden Spoon and also the flag in the same year. You think nineteen sixteen, what was going on in the world, Well, World War One and so many players were at war that there's only four clubs that could beat and then Fitzroy came fourth on the ladder but actually went on to win the flag. So maybe that's an omen for the Lions potentially. I mean, if all it takes is war to win a flag, oh my goodness, you forget what the AFL has actually been through, or that there would have been times where there were players that actually had to go off and fight in war. It's actually quite unbelievable. It is unbelievable, and it's just how it's changed in that time. And I think this is a good reminder that previously players had other stuff they had to do to make a living, and now serve their country and serve their country. It's probably a good reminder for us all really, isn't it. But that's wild. I also think it just reminds you of the history, Like there's something about I know you and I are footy people, when it's so nice to say footy and not have to qualify that. I'm not talking about NRL again, Tunney, I miss you. But also this is you've got to reflect what state that we're in. But there is such as drawid history and those that get to lift the you're part of that folklore forever. And I just looked at that and I went, what do you mean that you could possibly win the wooden spoon but also come home with the flag. But that is our fun fact. Thank you for listening to Too Good Sports. It's an iHeart production. Laura. I'm going to rope you in for another one of these, so we'll see how we go. You can follow us on Instagram at two Good Sports Podcasts. We'll catch you next week, but until then, be good Sport.