Episode 61: Lola & Meagan share a heartfelt conversation with conversion therapy survivor Drew Amstutz about growing up gay as a pastor's kid, being forced into conversion therapy, having suicidal ideations, and how he coped and found a way out.



If you have your own story about cults, high-control groups, manipulation, or abuse of power, shoot us an email at trustmepod@gmail.com.



FOLLOW US ON INSTAGRAM:

@trustmepodcast

@oohlalola

@vibehigherbitch



OR TWITTER:

@trustmecultpod

@ohlalola

Episode 61: Lola &amp; Meagan share a heartfelt conversation with conversion therapy survivor Drew Amstutz about growing up gay as a pastor's kid, being forced into conversion therapy, having suicidal ideations, and how he coped and found a way out.

If you have your own story about cults, high-control groups, manipulation, or abuse of power, shoot us an email at trustmepod@gmail.com.

FOLLOW US ON INSTAGRAM:
@trustmepodcast
@oohlalola
@vibehigherbitch

OR TWITTER:
@trustmecultpod
@ohlalola

Trust Me is a weekly interview podcast about cults, extreme belief, and the fine line between devotion and delusion—told through firsthand accounts from the people who lived it. Hosted by two women who’ve been in cults themselves, Lola Blanc and Meagan Elizabeth, the show features survivors from groups like Heaven’s Gate, the Manson Family, NXIVM, OneTaste and more–sharing personal stories of how they got in, how they got out, and everything in between.

Each week, they invite these guests alongside experts who can dive deep into seductive leaders, the darker aspects of organized religion, and the subtler shades of groupthink and the psychology of influence. Trust Me explores it all with unfiltered honesty, dark humor, and a lot of heart. This isn’t a sensationalized deep dive into cults—it’s a compassionate, first-person exploration of what it means to believe, to belong, and to break free. At the end of the day, wanting to believe in something bigger than yourself is one of the most human instincts there is.

Trust Me is a weekly interview podcast about cults, extreme belief, and the fine line between devotion and delusion&mdash;told through firsthand accounts from the people who lived it.&nbsp;Hosted by two women who&rsquo;ve been in cults themselves, Lola Blanc and Meagan Elizabeth, the show&nbsp;features survivors from groups like Heaven&rsquo;s Gate, the Manson Family, NXIVM, OneTaste and more&ndash;sharing personal stories of how they got in, how they got out, and everything in between.
Each week, they invite&nbsp;these guests&nbsp;alongside experts who can dive deep into seductive leaders, the darker aspects of organized religion, and the subtler shades of groupthink and the psychology of influence. Trust Me explores it all with unfiltered honesty, dark humor, and a lot of heart.&nbsp;This isn&rsquo;t a sensationalized deep dive into cults&mdash;it&rsquo;s a compassionate, first-person exploration of what it means to believe, to belong, and to break free.&nbsp;At the end of the day, wanting to believe in something bigger than yourself is one of the most human instincts there is.

Trust Me: Cults, Extreme Belief, and Manipulation

Drew Amstutz - Surviving Conversion Therapy

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/5065934b-099d-4f05-a640-b2de0131c76a/transcript

This week, the girls are joined again by Felicia Rosario, survivor of the cult at Sarah Lawrence, led by a man named Larry Ray. Today Felicia, who previously came on the show along with fellow survivor Daniel Levin, explains how Larry drew her in over time by love bombing her, winning over her social circle first, and using his genuinely powerful connections to give himself a mystique and an air of authority.

Felicia shares more about Larry’s crimes and abuse, what made her decide to finally finally decide to leave, and the life she’s built for herself since—as an expert witness testifying about coercion. She explains some of the factors one can point to in court toestablish that someone has been under coercive control. They also discuss the Cornell case and how common it is for people to behave unexpectedly when they’ve just experienced something traumatic.

SOURCES

Felicia Rosario Consulting

This week, the girls are joined again by Felicia Rosario, survivor of the cult at Sarah Lawrence, led by a man named Larry Ray. Today Felicia, who previously came on the show along with fellow survivor Daniel Levin, explains how Larry drew her in over time&nbsp;by love bombing her, winning over her social circle first, and using his genuinely powerful connections to give himself a mystique and an air of authority.
Felicia shares more about Larry&rsquo;s crimes and abuse, what made her decide to finally finally decide to leave, and the life she&rsquo;s built for herself since&mdash;as an expert witness testifying about coercion. She explains some of the factors&nbsp;one can point to in court to establish that someone has been under coercive control. They also discuss the Cornell case and how common it is for people to behave unexpectedly when they&rsquo;ve just experienced something traumatic.
SOURCES
<a href="https://www.feliciarosario.com/">Felicia Rosario Consulting</a>

Felicia Rosario - Larry Ray’s Coercive Tactics, Life After the Sarah Lawrence Cult, and Becoming an Expert Witness

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/63cd2d89-2d80-4a43-a61a-b4e2014f5e8e/transcript

This week, author and historian Stephen Kinzer joins Trust Me to discuss his book, Poisoner in Chief, and its subject: chemist Sidney Gottlieb, who led mind control experiments in the CIA’s Project MKUltra. Stephen explains who Gottlieb was and how he came to lead this harrowing attempt to control the human mind, what Operation Paperclip was (the US saved doctor-torturers from Nazi Germany and Japan and gave them jobs), and how the CIA began experimenting on subjects in other countries in horrific ways—all in the name of patriotism and “fighting communism.”

Stephen describes Gottlieb’s obsession with LSD and how the CIA began conducting drug experiments on inmates, people in psychiatric institutions, and other unwitting folks. He discusses the hunt for the perfect mind control tactic, how the word “brainwashing” can’t be separated from the Red Scare, and how none of the experiments were fruitful.

Plus, whether Gottlieb experienced any remorse later in life, and how we have the CIA to thank for the explosion of LSD onto the American scene (and, ironically, the major role it played in the anti-war movement).

SOURCES

Poisoner in Chief: Sidney Gottlieb and the CIA Search for Mind Control

 

This week, author and historian Stephen Kinzer joins Trust Me to discuss his book, Poisoner in Chief, and its subject: chemist Sidney Gottlieb, who led mind control experiments in the CIA&rsquo;s Project MKUltra. Stephen explains who Gottlieb was and how he came to lead this harrowing attempt to control the human mind, what Operation Paperclip was (the US saved doctor-torturers from Nazi Germany and Japan and gave them jobs), and how the CIA began experimenting on subjects in other countries in horrific ways&mdash;all in the name of patriotism and &ldquo;fighting communism.&rdquo;
Stephen describes Gottlieb&rsquo;s obsession with LSD and how the CIA began conducting drug experiments on inmates, people in psychiatric institutions, and other unwitting folks. He discusses the hunt for the perfect mind control tactic, how the word &ldquo;brainwashing&rdquo; can&rsquo;t be separated from the Red Scare, and how none of the experiments were fruitful.
Plus, whether Gottlieb experienced any remorse later in life, and how we have the CIA to thank for the explosion of LSD onto the American scene (and, ironically, the major role it played in the anti-war movement).
SOURCES
<a href="https://stephenkinzer.com/2019/08/poisoner-in-chief-sidney-gottlieb-and-the-cia-search-for-mind-control/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://stephenkinzer.com/2019/08/poisoner-in-chief-sidney-gottlieb-and-the-cia-search-for-mind-control/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1791405306160000&amp;usg=AOvVaw3SHHAtSshU-qxgSP8dCUG2">Poisoner in Chief: Sidney Gottlieb and the CIA Search for Mind Control</a>
&nbsp;

Stephen Kinzer - MKUltra, Sidney Gottlieb, and the CIA’s Hunt For Mind Control

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/b664f94f-953d-412a-8d0e-b4db014b4782/transcript

This week is part two with advocate and therapist Renee Spencer, who sued the Jesus Christians, aka the “kidney cult,” after they recruited her daughter. Last week, Renee explained how she realized her daughter Ellicia’s communication was being controlled, and this week she picks back up on Ellicia’s mysterious whereabouts around the world--going wherever the group sent her, cutting off emotional contact, and virtually disappearing from Renee's life.

Renee shares how the group’s leader, Dave McKay, began accusing her of being a Satan worshipper, which was used to demonize her and keep Ellicia away. Renee shares how she’s connected with other parents, what she learned about some of the things her daughter has been through (including their highly punitive “grievance” system), and how Renee finally took Dave McKay to court.

SOURCES

Recover From Coercive Control

SOCCHG

CIFS Australia

This week is part two with advocate and therapist Renee Spencer, who sued the Jesus Christians, aka the &ldquo;kidney cult,&rdquo; after they recruited her daughter. Last week, Renee explained how she realized her daughter Ellicia&rsquo;s communication was being controlled, and this week she picks back up on Ellicia&rsquo;s mysterious whereabouts around the world--going wherever the group sent her, cutting off emotional contact, and virtually disappearing from Renee's life.
Renee shares how the group&rsquo;s leader, Dave McKay, began accusing her of being a Satan worshipper, which was used to demonize her and keep Ellicia away. Renee shares how she&rsquo;s connected with other parents, what she learned about some of the things her daughter has been through (including their highly punitive &ldquo;grievance&rdquo; system), and how Renee finally took Dave McKay to court.
SOURCES
<a href="https://www.recoverfromcoercivecontrol.com/about-recover-from-coercive-control" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.recoverfromcoercivecontrol.com/about-recover-from-coercive-control&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1790817267898000&amp;usg=AOvVaw0mPhAouulHfBkjvWVN1wZZ">Recover From Coercive Control</a>
<a href="https://www.socchg.org/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.socchg.org/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1790817267898000&amp;usg=AOvVaw07YMltkEbd1qd_70fr3-F6">SOCCHG</a>
<a href="https://www.cifs.org.au/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.cifs.org.au/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1790817267898000&amp;usg=AOvVaw2kUFgJlghkqhlmyW-pkJgp">CIFS Australia</a>

Renee Spencer, Part 2 - The Jesus Christians, the “Kidney Cult,” and Suing Your Daughter’s Religious Group

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/9113ba85-2c84-4112-9e30-b4d3017b447c/transcript

Drew Amstutz - Surviving Conversion Therapy

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Trust Me: Cults, Extreme Belief, and Manipulation

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