You're listening to a MoMA Mea podcast. Mama Mea acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waders. This podcast was recorded on to some he's known as the anonymous host. Others have nicknamed him Casey. If you're listening to this podcast.

You're listening to a MoMA Mea podcast. Mama Mea acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waders. This podcast was recorded on to some he's known as the anonymous host. Others have nicknamed him Casey. If you're listening to this podcast.

And you're a fan of true crime, you'll probably recognize this voice.

And you're a fan of true crime, you'll probably recognize this voice.

Asking's indicating they'd applied the patches in the lead up to their deaths Stranger Still, the evidence suggests that the couple had ingested, but.

Asking's indicating they'd applied the patches in the lead up to their deaths Stranger Still, the evidence suggests that the couple had ingested, but.

The host of Australian true crime podcast case File has kept his identity secret for nine years and so far that's.

The host of Australian true crime podcast case File has kept his identity secret for nine years and so far that's.

Been working pretty well for him.

Been working pretty well for him.

Casey might not let us tell you his real name, but that doesn't mean we can't tell you his story. I'm Jemma Bass and this is True Crime Conversations amom of Me, a podcast exploring the world's most notorious crimes by speaking to the people who know the most about them. We've got a bit of a different episode for you today. Case File is what you would call one of our direct competitors. We both work in the Australian true crime podcasting space and we're regularly up against them in the various podcasting charts. They're wildly popular, often number one, with people all over the world attracted to the podcast's distinct, no frills approach to storytelling. It all started with one typical Aussie bloke as he calls himself in his spare room, deciding to give podcasting a go while recovering from a sporting injury. Now the anonymous host and his team are in the years of more than eight hundred thousand people every month. He doesn't really do interviews, you'll only find one or two on the internet, but we managed to convinced him to come into Momma mea HQ for an exclusive sit down chat. I don't know what I was meeting him in real life. He wasn't not what I was expecting. Probably more clean cut than the descriptor he gives of being a typical Aussie bloke, but maybe that's just me being too stereotypical. The feedback from my colleagues who sneak to peak is that he's younger than they imagined.

Casey might not let us tell you his real name, but that doesn't mean we can't tell you his story. I'm Jemma Bass and this is True Crime Conversations amom of Me, a podcast exploring the world's most notorious crimes by speaking to the people who know the most about them. We've got a bit of a different episode for you today. Case File is what you would call one of our direct competitors. We both work in the Australian true crime podcasting space and we're regularly up against them in the various podcasting charts. They're wildly popular, often number one, with people all over the world attracted to the podcast's distinct, no frills approach to storytelling. It all started with one typical Aussie bloke as he calls himself in his spare room, deciding to give podcasting a go while recovering from a sporting injury. Now the anonymous host and his team are in the years of more than eight hundred thousand people every month. He doesn't really do interviews, you'll only find one or two on the internet, but we managed to convinced him to come into Momma mea HQ for an exclusive sit down chat. I don't know what I was meeting him in real life. He wasn't not what I was expecting. Probably more clean cut than the descriptor he gives of being a typical Aussie bloke, but maybe that's just me being too stereotypical. The feedback from my colleagues who sneak to peak is that he's younger than they imagined.

Make of that what you will.

Make of that what you will.

And when I say sneak to peak, several of my colleagues not only hobbed, but chased this man down the halls of our office. Honestly, there was more excitement in here than when we have some Hollywood celebs grace our halls. Please enjoy my chat with the anonymous host of case File. I'm going to start with some quick fire questions, getting to know you questions.

And when I say sneak to peak, several of my colleagues not only hobbed, but chased this man down the halls of our office. Honestly, there was more excitement in here than when we have some Hollywood celebs grace our halls. Please enjoy my chat with the anonymous host of case File. I'm going to start with some quick fire questions, getting to know you questions.

I will accept no comment if I have to.

I will accept no comment if I have to.

Okay, sounds good, favorite sport, Rugby league, favorite food.

Okay, sounds good, favorite sport, Rugby league, favorite food.

Toy.

Toy.

That was a toughie. You had to think about that.

That was a toughie. You had to think about that.

Yeah, it was Indian maybe.

Yeah, it was Indian maybe.

Favorite song and or artists.

Favorite song and or artists.

Favorite song Flowers and You by touche A Moore, very specific. It's getting quite the play at the moment. It's not new, it's actually probably ten years old now. But good song.

Favorite song Flowers and You by touche A Moore, very specific. It's getting quite the play at the moment. It's not new, it's actually probably ten years old now. But good song.

Favorite thing to do on the weekend, golf, favorite place in Australia, Blue Mountains, m TV.

Favorite thing to do on the weekend, golf, favorite place in Australia, Blue Mountains, m TV.

Show cobra Qui what Yeah, just because it's so tacky and cheesy, but they really lean into it. And I was a fan of the Karate Kid movies when I was young, so it's a bit of a nostalgia thing.

Show cobra Qui what Yeah, just because it's so tacky and cheesy, but they really lean into it. And I was a fan of the Karate Kid movies when I was young, so it's a bit of a nostalgia thing.

It's like it's bad, but it's good bad.

It's like it's bad, but it's good bad.

If you could have dinner with anyone alive or dead, who would it be?

If you could have dinner with anyone alive or dead, who would it be?

Kirk Cabaine Ooh, I'm hearing a music yeah, big music fan. Yeah, well, or actually Kirk Cobaine or Cliff Burton original Metallica basis.

Kirk Cabaine Ooh, I'm hearing a music yeah, big music fan. Yeah, well, or actually Kirk Cobaine or Cliff Burton original Metallica basis.

Okay, Well, there we go.

Okay, Well, there we go.

I feel like I've learned more about you in the last few minutes than I can find on the entire Internet. And I'm not actually allowed to tell listeners your name. It's been nine years of you making case file. Have you ever considered just revealing who you are? Or has it become part of the brand?

I feel like I've learned more about you in the last few minutes than I can find on the entire Internet. And I'm not actually allowed to tell listeners your name. It's been nine years of you making case file. Have you ever considered just revealing who you are? Or has it become part of the brand?

Not really, No, I guess it has become part of it, but inadvertently it's kind of like an accident because it was never planned. It was never supposed to be a thing, the anonymous hosting, but it just kind of took off into a life of its own. I guess we have started branching out. I've done a few live appearances in recent times. There's no photo policy, and I still don't reveal myself as such. It's more just the case, false story and that sort of thing. I'm comfortable with that. That's been fine, But yeah, I don't think I'll ever be a personality, so to speak.

Not really, No, I guess it has become part of it, but inadvertently it's kind of like an accident because it was never planned. It was never supposed to be a thing, the anonymous hosting, but it just kind of took off into a life of its own. I guess we have started branching out. I've done a few live appearances in recent times. There's no photo policy, and I still don't reveal myself as such. It's more just the case, false story and that sort of thing. I'm comfortable with that. That's been fine, But yeah, I don't think I'll ever be a personality, so to speak.

Well, it's very fun trying to look at what people have kind of found out about you? Is that fun to watch people trying to work it out?

Well, it's very fun trying to look at what people have kind of found out about you? Is that fun to watch people trying to work it out?

I did get a little bit of a kick out of it, sort of initially. I haven't looked at it for a few years now, but there were some weird and wild theories.

I did get a little bit of a kick out of it, sort of initially. I haven't looked at it for a few years now, but there were some weird and wild theories.

There are out there.

There are out there.

Some I'm like, how do people even come up with that? That is like completely made up?

Some I'm like, how do people even come up with that? That is like completely made up?

Yeah?

Yeah?

They stayed it like it's just so matter of fact. It's eye opening.

They stayed it like it's just so matter of fact. It's eye opening.

Actually, well fans, is it fans that have nicknamed you Casey?

Actually, well fans, is it fans that have nicknamed you Casey?

Yes? That came from listeners.

Yes? That came from listeners.

So just that came off the back of the anonymous host thing, people like, well, who is this person?

So just that came off the back of the anonymous host thing, people like, well, who is this person?

What's going on?

What's going on?

And I can't remember if it was a Reddit thread or a Facebook group maybe, but there's one of those, and listeners just started using case and that sort of took off.

And I can't remember if it was a Reddit thread or a Facebook group maybe, but there's one of those, and listeners just started using case and that sort of took off.

It's probably more catchy to say than anonymous host, So I can see.

It's probably more catchy to say than anonymous host, So I can see.

Why that's a bit of a mouthful. Isn't it an anonymous host? It doesn't really.

Why that's a bit of a mouthful. Isn't it an anonymous host? It doesn't really.

But you've taken on Casey as kind of like the identity as well. You've got an Instagram handle, is that you Casey?

But you've taken on Casey as kind of like the identity as well. You've got an Instagram handle, is that you Casey?

Yeah?

Yeah?

That's me for photography? Bad photography? Mind?

That's me for photography? Bad photography? Mind?

You on the iPhone is a bit of a hobby of mine, particularly live music and stuff. So it's just like a just something I like to do in a downtime, play around with a few photos and stuff.

You on the iPhone is a bit of a hobby of mine, particularly live music and stuff. So it's just like a just something I like to do in a downtime, play around with a few photos and stuff.

I thought, oh, I'm not as well put them.

I thought, oh, I'm not as well put them.

Out there, I guess, and adopt the name yeah, and just lean into the name yep.

Out there, I guess, and adopt the name yeah, and just lean into the name yep.

Take me back to the start.

Take me back to the start.

How did you find yourself sitting down and starting a podcast?

How did you find yourself sitting down and starting a podcast?

So it's something that I'd wanted to do for a little while, a few years. I'd say I was a pretty early adopter of podcasts.

So it's something that I'd wanted to do for a little while, a few years. I'd say I was a pretty early adopter of podcasts.

So it's twenty sixteen, right.

So it's twenty sixteen, right.

That's when case fol started. But I've been listening to podcasts since I think it's like two thousand and eight to something like that. So my housemate at the time put me onto them. I'd never heard of them, and leaning back into that music theme, I discovered Alternative Press had a podcast and it was just long form interviews with a lot of the bands that I liked. I thought it was really cool because up until that point there'd never really been anything like that to get insight into artists. It was a snippet in a magazine or a little bit here or there, but to get this really long form conversation. I was immediately drawn in loved it, and so I'd been a fan for a few years and that sort of branched out into other podcasts after that, and it was always in my mind I thought this'd be cool to do, and I played around with a few ideas, maybe a rugby league one, maybe a music one. I started looking into music pretty heavily, but obviously a nightmare because you can't play music, podcast licensing, all that sort of stuff, So I wasn't really sure how to approach that. And I'd always been a consumer, I guess of true crime from a young age. I remember back I would have been like ten. I was babysat by my auntie a lot back then, and she had this whole shelf full of true crime magazines. I forget the name of it, you know, but it was like a weekly one available at their newsagents magazine. Yeah, so every week one a new one would come out at the magazine and it was like in long form on one case, and she had a whole shelf of them. So it was probably way too young to be reading about the Yorkshire Ripper and other such cases. But so from a young age, and I remember always having an interest in the human.

That's when case fol started. But I've been listening to podcasts since I think it's like two thousand and eight to something like that. So my housemate at the time put me onto them. I'd never heard of them, and leaning back into that music theme, I discovered Alternative Press had a podcast and it was just long form interviews with a lot of the bands that I liked. I thought it was really cool because up until that point there'd never really been anything like that to get insight into artists. It was a snippet in a magazine or a little bit here or there, but to get this really long form conversation. I was immediately drawn in loved it, and so I'd been a fan for a few years and that sort of branched out into other podcasts after that, and it was always in my mind I thought this'd be cool to do, and I played around with a few ideas, maybe a rugby league one, maybe a music one. I started looking into music pretty heavily, but obviously a nightmare because you can't play music, podcast licensing, all that sort of stuff, So I wasn't really sure how to approach that. And I'd always been a consumer, I guess of true crime from a young age. I remember back I would have been like ten. I was babysat by my auntie a lot back then, and she had this whole shelf full of true crime magazines. I forget the name of it, you know, but it was like a weekly one available at their newsagents magazine. Yeah, so every week one a new one would come out at the magazine and it was like in long form on one case, and she had a whole shelf of them. So it was probably way too young to be reading about the Yorkshire Ripper and other such cases. But so from a young age, and I remember always having an interest in the human.

Side of it, was like what causes it? How does this happen? Even from such a young age.

Side of it, was like what causes it? How does this happen? Even from such a young age.

You know.

You know.

I don't think I was throwing around terms like nature, verse, nurture back then, but essentially that's what I was wondering at that time, like how does this happen? It was It wasn't like a lifelong thing, you know, I'd sort of in and out of it. A book would come along, like I think one of the first books I read was Helter Skelter at true crime books that is.

I don't think I was throwing around terms like nature, verse, nurture back then, but essentially that's what I was wondering at that time, like how does this happen? It was It wasn't like a lifelong thing, you know, I'd sort of in and out of it. A book would come along, like I think one of the first books I read was Helter Skelter at true crime books that is.

And then there was.

And then there was.

ABC had a like a tele dramatized based on true events called Blue Murder.

ABC had a like a tele dramatized based on true events called Blue Murder.

Yeah, I remember that.

Yeah, I remember that.

Yeah, So I got right into that and tried to find every book that I could on that case and the players that were involved in that. So I've always had an interest in it. And so around this time, Cereal had been out for I think a few years by this point, but I was a late adopter to Cereal, and Making a Murderer was big at that time as well, So true crime was sort of back bubbling bubbling, and it just occurred to me just because I'd always had from a young age and interest in it. I thought, I wonder if that is some that would work on a podcast, and I started researching. So this is twenty fifteen, hard to imagine, but a very different landscape. Back then, there was hardly any true crime podcasts, very different to today.

Yeah, So I got right into that and tried to find every book that I could on that case and the players that were involved in that. So I've always had an interest in it. And so around this time, Cereal had been out for I think a few years by this point, but I was a late adopter to Cereal, and Making a Murderer was big at that time as well, So true crime was sort of back bubbling bubbling, and it just occurred to me just because I'd always had from a young age and interest in it. I thought, I wonder if that is some that would work on a podcast, and I started researching. So this is twenty fifteen, hard to imagine, but a very different landscape. Back then, there was hardly any true crime podcasts, very different to today.

Especially in Australia.

Especially in Australia.

I'm guessing I don't think there were any in Australia.

I'm guessing I don't think there were any in Australia.

I could be wrong. There might have been something that I just didn't find. I'm not saying case f I was the first, but the handful that I did find were a lot more formatted around that multiple hosts, round table discussion format. There was obviously serial, the documentary style, and then there was another one or two like that that would play nine to one one calls and interview clips and things like that. Now, at that time, I was heavily influenced by a podcast called Hardcore History by Dan Carlin. What I found so fascinating about that podcast was the in depth storytelling by a single narrator. So up until that point I'd only ever heard like interview style podcasts. I thought that's what podcasts. Well, there was Serial that was more documentary style, but I'd never really heard anything like Hardcore History, which was just one voice, no clips, no nothing, just his voice for like five hours telling a story something complex, like a complex historical event, and it was so compelling. I thought that just got my mind ticking over. I was like, Oh, it showed me that was possible. And when I was trying to come up with the format and then looking what was out there with true crime, I saw I couldn't find anything out there like that, and so I just borrowed, copied inspired by whatever you want to say, Dan Carlin's hardcore History into true crime.

I could be wrong. There might have been something that I just didn't find. I'm not saying case f I was the first, but the handful that I did find were a lot more formatted around that multiple hosts, round table discussion format. There was obviously serial, the documentary style, and then there was another one or two like that that would play nine to one one calls and interview clips and things like that. Now, at that time, I was heavily influenced by a podcast called Hardcore History by Dan Carlin. What I found so fascinating about that podcast was the in depth storytelling by a single narrator. So up until that point I'd only ever heard like interview style podcasts. I thought that's what podcasts. Well, there was Serial that was more documentary style, but I'd never really heard anything like Hardcore History, which was just one voice, no clips, no nothing, just his voice for like five hours telling a story something complex, like a complex historical event, and it was so compelling. I thought that just got my mind ticking over. I was like, Oh, it showed me that was possible. And when I was trying to come up with the format and then looking what was out there with true crime, I saw I couldn't find anything out there like that, and so I just borrowed, copied inspired by whatever you want to say, Dan Carlin's hardcore History into true crime.

It just goes to show that sometimes it's the simplest ideas that end up being gold because it really is just your voice for an hour, sometimes an hour and a half. There's no other audio apart from like a bit of a music bed sometimes.

It just goes to show that sometimes it's the simplest ideas that end up being gold because it really is just your voice for an hour, sometimes an hour and a half. There's no other audio apart from like a bit of a music bed sometimes.

Yeah, so there is a music bed. Very rarely do we play like interrogation clips or things like that. We have done, but it's pretty rare that that all happened. So usually it's just my voice.

Yeah, so there is a music bed. Very rarely do we play like interrogation clips or things like that. We have done, but it's pretty rare that that all happened. So usually it's just my voice.

Yep, you're listening to true crime conversations with me, Jemma Bath.

Yep, you're listening to true crime conversations with me, Jemma Bath.

I'm speaking with the anonymous host of case File.

I'm speaking with the anonymous host of case File.

Up next, we go back to the start the making of the very first episode of Case File. So take me through recording that first episode.

Up next, we go back to the start the making of the very first episode of Case File. So take me through recording that first episode.

Where are you? What does it look like? Do you have a mic? Do you have a setup?

Where are you? What does it look like? Do you have a mic? Do you have a setup?

It was bad, It was very bad.

It was bad, It was very bad.

I had no idea what I was doing from a technical standpoint.

I had no idea what I was doing from a technical standpoint.

One mention of the word.

One mention of the word.

One, there is enough essentials down the spine of those who remember the case that dominated the television reports, radio air waves, and print media of the day. One of my hobbies is I played guitar bass guitar at home, and I had a little interface that I could record myself on garage on my Mac and so on. That interface, which was designed to plug a guitar in it also had like this little mic smaller than the size of a five cent piece on it. I thought, oh, yeah, that'll do. So I just plugged that in to the laptop. It was sitting on my desk nowhere in my mouth over there somewhere, and I just started talking, did what I could on garage band with my limited knowledge, and then released it. It sounds awful, but so what I'm very thankful for in those early days we got some good constructive feedback in that. Look, this content is pretty good, but this sounds awful. Can you get someone to do something with your audio? I thought that's probably fair enough, so I advertised for an audio producer on a freelance website.

One, there is enough essentials down the spine of those who remember the case that dominated the television reports, radio air waves, and print media of the day. One of my hobbies is I played guitar bass guitar at home, and I had a little interface that I could record myself on garage on my Mac and so on. That interface, which was designed to plug a guitar in it also had like this little mic smaller than the size of a five cent piece on it. I thought, oh, yeah, that'll do. So I just plugged that in to the laptop. It was sitting on my desk nowhere in my mouth over there somewhere, and I just started talking, did what I could on garage band with my limited knowledge, and then released it. It sounds awful, but so what I'm very thankful for in those early days we got some good constructive feedback in that. Look, this content is pretty good, but this sounds awful. Can you get someone to do something with your audio? I thought that's probably fair enough, so I advertised for an audio producer on a freelance website.

Yeah, things up work, I think it was.

Yeah, things up work, I think it was.

And it was hard to write that job the scriptum because I didn't know what I was asking for, because I had no knowledge of what I was doing. So I put together something and probably twenty to thirty people applied, and so I thought the best way to work this out was I just had a one minute snippet from an episode and the job description was fixed. This just show me what you can do, basically. And then I listened to it and there was one standout, which was Mike Megus, who is still the current case for a producer to Next Day. Yeah, nine years on, so he was one of the applicants. I listened to his snippet head and shoulders above anyone else. Then I looked at his resume. Worked at Pinewood Studios in the UK, worked on this Star Wars movie, worked on this Disney movie. I'm like, oh, dear, no, no wonder, it sounds so good, but I can't afford this. But I messaged him and we got chatting, and he had actually just left Pinewood Studios and was coming out as a freelancer. He hadn't worked with podcasts before, so he was keen to just try it and dip his toes into it, get experience with podcasts, and he gave me a very favorable rate.

And it was hard to write that job the scriptum because I didn't know what I was asking for, because I had no knowledge of what I was doing. So I put together something and probably twenty to thirty people applied, and so I thought the best way to work this out was I just had a one minute snippet from an episode and the job description was fixed. This just show me what you can do, basically. And then I listened to it and there was one standout, which was Mike Megus, who is still the current case for a producer to Next Day. Yeah, nine years on, so he was one of the applicants. I listened to his snippet head and shoulders above anyone else. Then I looked at his resume. Worked at Pinewood Studios in the UK, worked on this Star Wars movie, worked on this Disney movie. I'm like, oh, dear, no, no wonder, it sounds so good, but I can't afford this. But I messaged him and we got chatting, and he had actually just left Pinewood Studios and was coming out as a freelancer. He hadn't worked with podcasts before, so he was keen to just try it and dip his toes into it, get experience with podcasts, and he gave me a very favorable rate.

So thank you, Mike.

So thank you, Mike.

So you found him at a good time, a good time. How many podcasts in were you hiring Mike?

So you found him at a good time, a good time. How many podcasts in were you hiring Mike?

Was? Episode seven was the first one he worked on.

Was? Episode seven was the first one he worked on.

And by that point, did you have an audience? What did your audience look like in those early episodes.

And by that point, did you have an audience? What did your audience look like in those early episodes.

I remember my goal when I released the first episode was to get to one hundred, one hundred downloads, one hundred downloads, and that happened in twenty four hours, and so by the end of the first week it was about one thousand, and it sort of slowly, just it sort of came in blocks. So by six months we were averaging fifty thousand plus an episode. Then by the end of the first year it was two hundred and fifty thousand an episode, and then before I knew it into the second year was a million plus. Just was like stages, It was very it almost didn't seem real because there was no promotion.

I remember my goal when I released the first episode was to get to one hundred, one hundred downloads, one hundred downloads, and that happened in twenty four hours, and so by the end of the first week it was about one thousand, and it sort of slowly, just it sort of came in blocks. So by six months we were averaging fifty thousand plus an episode. Then by the end of the first year it was two hundred and fifty thousand an episode, and then before I knew it into the second year was a million plus. Just was like stages, It was very it almost didn't seem real because there was no promotion.

There was nothing say how did.

There was nothing say how did.

You like, did you just go on to one of the platforms and release it? Did you advertise it on social media?

You like, did you just go on to one of the platforms and release it? Did you advertise it on social media?

Like?

Like?

How did you get it out there?

How did you get it out there?

It was I believe the first hosting platform was SoundCloud actually, so I put it on SoundCloud and through there they had an RSS capability, So it went out to Apple and all the everywhere that you can get podcasts, set up a Facebook.

It was I believe the first hosting platform was SoundCloud actually, so I put it on SoundCloud and through there they had an RSS capability, So it went out to Apple and all the everywhere that you can get podcasts, set up a Facebook.

Page and it just grew, it just grew. It was just word of mouth.

Page and it just grew, it just grew. It was just word of mouth.

What was the first episode on do you remember?

What was the first episode on do you remember?

Yeah?

Yeah?

The first episode was the Wonder Beach Murders.

The first episode was the Wonder Beach Murders.

So a really infamous one.

So a really infamous one.

Yeah, infamous Australian one. And I guess I covered that one because it was a case that I'd heard a lot about growing up. It was sort of almost mythical in a way, the way it was about an urban legend of not an urban legend, obviously it's real case, but the way it was spoken about growing up, it was almost like that. And I realized I knew nothing about it, so I thought that was a good place to start. Just as this wasn't planned, This wasn't supposed to go to an audience This was a project that I was doing while I was off work injured, so it was literally just to fill in the time until I went back to work. So I didn't get crazy because this was my third serious rehab from an injury in quick succession, and that can be a pretty dark and lonely time, especially for someone who likes to play sport, keep fit active. It's almost sort of part of my identity. So being stuck through the rehab process it was pretty tough. That third one was a pretty serious injury too. So I'd been wanting to start a podcast for a few years. I thought, well, this is my chance, and yeah, I none of this was planned.

Yeah, infamous Australian one. And I guess I covered that one because it was a case that I'd heard a lot about growing up. It was sort of almost mythical in a way, the way it was about an urban legend of not an urban legend, obviously it's real case, but the way it was spoken about growing up, it was almost like that. And I realized I knew nothing about it, so I thought that was a good place to start. Just as this wasn't planned, This wasn't supposed to go to an audience This was a project that I was doing while I was off work injured, so it was literally just to fill in the time until I went back to work. So I didn't get crazy because this was my third serious rehab from an injury in quick succession, and that can be a pretty dark and lonely time, especially for someone who likes to play sport, keep fit active. It's almost sort of part of my identity. So being stuck through the rehab process it was pretty tough. That third one was a pretty serious injury too. So I'd been wanting to start a podcast for a few years. I thought, well, this is my chance, and yeah, I none of this was planned.

Maybe do three.

Maybe do three.

Episodes as your podcast started to grow. I know you're anonymous to the world, but your loved ones they would have known that you were starting a podcast. What did they think about it?

Episodes as your podcast started to grow. I know you're anonymous to the world, but your loved ones they would have known that you were starting a podcast. What did they think about it?

All?

All?

Not many.

Not many.

I kept it pretty much well on the down low. I told a few friends and they kind of just laughed at it, said, though, that's stupid, what are you doing. What are you doing that for? Basically, you know, in a friendly banter tight way, I guess, But yeah, I kept it pretty well on the down low, just something that I just did put my head down and just kept putting it out there. No one I worked with knew about it.

I kept it pretty much well on the down low. I told a few friends and they kind of just laughed at it, said, though, that's stupid, what are you doing. What are you doing that for? Basically, you know, in a friendly banter tight way, I guess, But yeah, I kept it pretty well on the down low, just something that I just did put my head down and just kept putting it out there. No one I worked with knew about it.

So you ended up going back to work and you were doing this on the side, yep.

So you ended up going back to work and you were doing this on the side, yep.

Yep, So I went back to eventually got back to work, and yeah, just on the days off and you or after work even Yeah, kept working on case file and it kept growing and growing and growing. Eventually I realized that I needed help yep. So we got our first researcher and writer to assist, and yeah, from there, the team has just gradually grown and yeah, now we have two full time audio producers, three full time researchers, writers, and additional freelancers as well.

Yep, So I went back to eventually got back to work, and yeah, just on the days off and you or after work even Yeah, kept working on case file and it kept growing and growing and growing. Eventually I realized that I needed help yep. So we got our first researcher and writer to assist, and yeah, from there, the team has just gradually grown and yeah, now we have two full time audio producers, three full time researchers, writers, and additional freelancers as well.

Wow, prior to hiring a researcher to obviously help you write those scripts because they're long, they're detailed, how much work were you putting into that script?

Wow, prior to hiring a researcher to obviously help you write those scripts because they're long, they're detailed, how much work were you putting into that script?

Because it's.

Because it's.

It's hard to get that amount of detail, and like, if you get anything wrong, people are going to pick up on it.

It's hard to get that amount of detail, and like, if you get anything wrong, people are going to pick up on it.

Is it ours?

Is it ours?

Oh?

Oh?

Yeah, it was a non stop It was literally I didn't have anything else in life. I go to work and I come home and like I'd work shift work, So sometimes after a night shift, I'd literally just not sleep.

Yeah, it was a non stop It was literally I didn't have anything else in life. I go to work and I come home and like I'd work shift work, So sometimes after a night shift, I'd literally just not sleep.

Because it was that full on. So, yeah, it was a.

Because it was that full on. So, yeah, it was a.

Lot, a lot of there's still a lot of work now, but obviously it's much smoother in operation with having such a talented team working on it now.

Lot, a lot of there's still a lot of work now, but obviously it's much smoother in operation with having such a talented team working on it now.

But yeah, back then it was pretty full long.

But yeah, back then it was pretty full long.

Given it's your baby, though, it's your case file is your child? Do you struggle to give it to other people? Are you very close to it still in terms of the writing of those scripts and the research and how the process goes.

Given it's your baby, though, it's your case file is your child? Do you struggle to give it to other people? Are you very close to it still in terms of the writing of those scripts and the research and how the process goes.

No, I've got a lot of faith in the team, So it's once it's been very fortunate just to find such talented and hard working people who I trust. So once these people have my trust, it's I'm happy to step away. And so the writing and research team now is fully led by women. All the rids of researchers are women. The head writer, Millie is in charge of all the cases, what we're covering, what's the release schedule, all of that. Mike's in charge of the production side of it, the audio production, what music goes on, and sort of the audio production elements. So yeah, and I have full trust in the whole team to do that because this.

No, I've got a lot of faith in the team, So it's once it's been very fortunate just to find such talented and hard working people who I trust. So once these people have my trust, it's I'm happy to step away. And so the writing and research team now is fully led by women. All the rids of researchers are women. The head writer, Millie is in charge of all the cases, what we're covering, what's the release schedule, all of that. Mike's in charge of the production side of it, the audio production, what music goes on, and sort of the audio production elements. So yeah, and I have full trust in the whole team to do that because this.

Is no longer well and truly no longer your side hustle, this is your job, right When were you able to kind of be like, Okay, goodbye, former career, I'm doing this.

Is no longer well and truly no longer your side hustle, this is your job, right When were you able to kind of be like, Okay, goodbye, former career, I'm doing this.

So case fil was released in episode one in January twenty sixteen. It was the end of twenty seventeen where I took leave without pay from my job for a year, just to I was very on the fence and uming and a ring and I don't know what to do. This is, so I thought I'd take the year leave without pay. And that year went so quick it's unbelievable. Was almost like I blinked and then works ringing me, are you coming back? And I still wasn't sure at that stage. I requested another six months and they said either coming back or you're leaving, And so ultimately I just decided to leave and try it full time.

So case fil was released in episode one in January twenty sixteen. It was the end of twenty seventeen where I took leave without pay from my job for a year, just to I was very on the fence and uming and a ring and I don't know what to do. This is, so I thought I'd take the year leave without pay. And that year went so quick it's unbelievable. Was almost like I blinked and then works ringing me, are you coming back? And I still wasn't sure at that stage. I requested another six months and they said either coming back or you're leaving, And so ultimately I just decided to leave and try it full time.

And yeah, so still able to do it. Now?

And yeah, so still able to do it. Now?

What were you sure about? What made you think so hard? Did you love your former career?

What were you sure about? What made you think so hard? Did you love your former career?

I wouldn't say that it was just more stable. I guess so because it was it's the unknown a podcast, So I don't know, especially back then in two thousand and seventeen, it was just it was very much outside of my comfort zone, I guess, and I just wasn't sure about it. It was like, ah, this is a big risk and pressure, but it was good. It was the best decision I made.

I wouldn't say that it was just more stable. I guess so because it was it's the unknown a podcast, So I don't know, especially back then in two thousand and seventeen, it was just it was very much outside of my comfort zone, I guess, and I just wasn't sure about it. It was like, ah, this is a big risk and pressure, but it was good. It was the best decision I made.

This is a bit of a nerdy behind the scenes question, but it's pretty common knowledge that advertisers get a bit scared of true crime as a genre because we talk about murder, blood gore, you know, often deeply harrowing content. Has that been a challenge for you in trying to monetize.

This is a bit of a nerdy behind the scenes question, but it's pretty common knowledge that advertisers get a bit scared of true crime as a genre because we talk about murder, blood gore, you know, often deeply harrowing content. Has that been a challenge for you in trying to monetize.

It has been relayed back to me a little bit, But from what I've picked up over the years, that is a very much Australian thing, right, not so much in the US. And we're very fortunate where we have such a big audience in the US. It was actually half our audience for a number of years was US based. It's okay, it's sort of come back a little bit now. I think it's even Australia thirty five percent Australia thirty five percent US roughly. So we've always had that big US audience and the US advertisers don't have that same viewpoint.

It has been relayed back to me a little bit, But from what I've picked up over the years, that is a very much Australian thing, right, not so much in the US. And we're very fortunate where we have such a big audience in the US. It was actually half our audience for a number of years was US based. It's okay, it's sort of come back a little bit now. I think it's even Australia thirty five percent Australia thirty five percent US roughly. So we've always had that big US audience and the US advertisers don't have that same viewpoint.

I'm interested to know, like male female split for your podcast, do you have a lot of is it mainly women?

I'm interested to know, like male female split for your podcast, do you have a lot of is it mainly women?

Is it mainly men?

Is it mainly men?

I believe it's seventy thirty female.

I believe it's seventy thirty female.

Seventy percent female?

Seventy percent female?

Yes, wow, I mean I don't know how accurate that is.

Yes, wow, I mean I don't know how accurate that is.

I don't know how they measure that, but that's the stats that come up on our dashboard. Yep, Yeah, it was seventy seventy thirty.

I don't know how they measure that, but that's the stats that come up on our dashboard. Yep, Yeah, it was seventy seventy thirty.

Because we're a bit skewed.

Because we're a bit skewed.

Obviously we're a women's media company doing a podcast, but we have the most male listeners of all the podcasts on our network.

Obviously we're a women's media company doing a podcast, but we have the most male listeners of all the podcasts on our network.

Oh, because a lot of.

Oh, because a lot of.

Men don't listen to our the podcast, but they listen to us. So that's why I'm so curious to hear it, because I do hear that it's women mainly that like to listen to true crime podcasts.

Men don't listen to our the podcast, but they listen to us. So that's why I'm so curious to hear it, because I do hear that it's women mainly that like to listen to true crime podcasts.

Yeah, it's certainly the case for us. The live show that we did in Australia in November in Melbourne, that was it was probably ninety plus women in the audience. So yeah, very much skewed towards mostly female listeners.

Yeah, it's certainly the case for us. The live show that we did in Australia in November in Melbourne, that was it was probably ninety plus women in the audience. So yeah, very much skewed towards mostly female listeners.

Fans of case File.

Fans of case File.

The og might not realize, but you have about, if I'm correct, twenty one other podcasts under kind of the banner of case File presents smaller you know, like the Easy Street Murders. You've got like a kind of serie on that particular case. How did that come about in terms of like branching out and doing that.

The og might not realize, but you have about, if I'm correct, twenty one other podcasts under kind of the banner of case File presents smaller you know, like the Easy Street Murders. You've got like a kind of serie on that particular case. How did that come about in terms of like branching out and doing that.

Yeah, so that's something that I had thought about pretty early on. Once Case File started getting successful, I was really interested. As much as my vision for Case fil was the style that we do now, I also obviously really like Cereal and that style as well, and I was interested in trying to do some of that long form, investigative, deep dive stuff. And so that's basically how it came about. The Case File presents idea, let's give a platform to other people to tell their stories. So you know, we have like Vicki Petratus, who's done a number well known true crime author journalists, pis whoever sort of has a story, and we're able to provide that platform, give them an audience to elevate their stories.

Yeah, so that's something that I had thought about pretty early on. Once Case File started getting successful, I was really interested. As much as my vision for Case fil was the style that we do now, I also obviously really like Cereal and that style as well, and I was interested in trying to do some of that long form, investigative, deep dive stuff. And so that's basically how it came about. The Case File presents idea, let's give a platform to other people to tell their stories. So you know, we have like Vicki Petratus, who's done a number well known true crime author journalists, pis whoever sort of has a story, and we're able to provide that platform, give them an audience to elevate their stories.

And do you work really closely with those podcasts?

And do you work really closely with those podcasts?

Depends on the show, okay, it just it depends on the show, depends on the creator. Some people are like, let me alone, I'll send you when I'm done, and I'm happy with that because I've obviously put that I trust them enough to offer them the opportunity. So I believe that they can do it, but other people wanted more hands on approach and can you help me outit this?

Depends on the show, okay, it just it depends on the show, depends on the creator. Some people are like, let me alone, I'll send you when I'm done, and I'm happy with that because I've obviously put that I trust them enough to offer them the opportunity. So I believe that they can do it, but other people wanted more hands on approach and can you help me outit this?

And what do you think of this? And so it just depends on the show.

And what do you think of this? And so it just depends on the show.

I'm happy to be as involved or as uninvolved as they want me to be.

I'm happy to be as involved or as uninvolved as they want me to be.

And this is news to me. But I found out today that Case File has a game. Yes, so you can play case File board game.

And this is news to me. But I found out today that Case File has a game. Yes, so you can play case File board game.

It's a board game. Yeah, so Goliath, the board game company, reached out to us and wanted to do a game, and we were a bit unsure about that. Obviously, had to just see what they had in mind. But obviously it's a completely fictional storyline, and you know, we're happy with what they came up with. And yeah, so that's They've just released a version two, so they must be happy enough with our version one went. Version two is only available in the US at this time.

It's a board game. Yeah, so Goliath, the board game company, reached out to us and wanted to do a game, and we were a bit unsure about that. Obviously, had to just see what they had in mind. But obviously it's a completely fictional storyline, and you know, we're happy with what they came up with. And yeah, so that's They've just released a version two, so they must be happy enough with our version one went. Version two is only available in the US at this time.

Though.

Though.

What's your lens?

What's your lens?

Every podcast has like a bit of a lens as to how they pick a story or a case that they're going to cover.

Every podcast has like a bit of a lens as to how they pick a story or a case that they're going to cover.

Do you have a way to pick?

Do you have a way to pick?

There's no one lens I would say, other than we don't do a case just because it's gruesome, or to cover the gore or you know, big gratrudus or anything like that. There's got to be a reason for it. Like, I'm personally close to unsolved cases, so I like covering those and giving those a voice. But there's reasons to cover other stories as well, you know, the societal impacts, justice system issues, wrongful convictions, problems with police investigations, voices who were ignored, under represented community. There's many, many different reasons. It just depends on the case. Yeah, but generally there has to be a reason. There's some sort of forensic element that's interesting to put out there, or the genetic genealogy stuff that's become big in recent years, that sort of thing.

There's no one lens I would say, other than we don't do a case just because it's gruesome, or to cover the gore or you know, big gratrudus or anything like that. There's got to be a reason for it. Like, I'm personally close to unsolved cases, so I like covering those and giving those a voice. But there's reasons to cover other stories as well, you know, the societal impacts, justice system issues, wrongful convictions, problems with police investigations, voices who were ignored, under represented community. There's many, many different reasons. It just depends on the case. Yeah, but generally there has to be a reason. There's some sort of forensic element that's interesting to put out there, or the genetic genealogy stuff that's become big in recent years, that sort of thing.

Yeah, do you find that there are certain kind of styles that your audience prefers. I'll give you an example from our side. Whenever we do an episode about a cult, it goes really well. Okay, do you have kind of episodes that you know are going to go well before you've even put them out?

Yeah, do you find that there are certain kind of styles that your audience prefers. I'll give you an example from our side. Whenever we do an episode about a cult, it goes really well. Okay, do you have kind of episodes that you know are going to go well before you've even put them out?

Not really, We're pretty each episode is pretty on par with another episode. Yeah, they all do pretty well. So we don't really have an insight into this particular case. We'll do better than this particular case. Nothing like that that doesn't come that doesn't factor into the decision.

Not really, We're pretty each episode is pretty on par with another episode. Yeah, they all do pretty well. So we don't really have an insight into this particular case. We'll do better than this particular case. Nothing like that that doesn't come that doesn't factor into the decision.

Meaning, are there.

Meaning, are there.

Any episodes I know you've done over three hundred but that you're particularly proud of.

Any episodes I know you've done over three hundred but that you're particularly proud of.

But the ones that stand out to me would be one like the unsolved murder of Britney Phillips, which is a US case and I touched them earlier that unsolved cases are the ones that are closest to me. And Maggie Zingman, who is Brittany's mother, came across her story in that she couldn't get any coverage for her daughter's unsolved murder that happened in Tulsa, Oklahoma, And so she's been driving around for fifteen eighteen years whatever it was at the time when we actually covered the case. She's got her car decked out in like a rap with all the details of her daughter's crime and just driving around. She's been to every state in the continental US multiple times, just driving around. She calls a caravan to catch a killer, just raising awareness, just you never know, someone might know something somewhere. And despite that, she was unable to get any sort of national coverage or anything. So we were put in touch and we were able to cover that story on Case File.

But the ones that stand out to me would be one like the unsolved murder of Britney Phillips, which is a US case and I touched them earlier that unsolved cases are the ones that are closest to me. And Maggie Zingman, who is Brittany's mother, came across her story in that she couldn't get any coverage for her daughter's unsolved murder that happened in Tulsa, Oklahoma, And so she's been driving around for fifteen eighteen years whatever it was at the time when we actually covered the case. She's got her car decked out in like a rap with all the details of her daughter's crime and just driving around. She's been to every state in the continental US multiple times, just driving around. She calls a caravan to catch a killer, just raising awareness, just you never know, someone might know something somewhere. And despite that, she was unable to get any sort of national coverage or anything. So we were put in touch and we were able to cover that story on Case File.

I forget when that was released.

I forget when that was released.

It was a few years ago now, But to this day, Maggie will still will email me and say she still gets people emailing her because they've heard the Case File episode. And there's been no sort of groundbreaking tips at this point, but there's been a few things here and there, and she's just so appreciative of that coverage.

It was a few years ago now, But to this day, Maggie will still will email me and say she still gets people emailing her because they've heard the Case File episode. And there's been no sort of groundbreaking tips at this point, but there's been a few things here and there, and she's just so appreciative of that coverage.

So to me, that's something very worthwhile.

So to me, that's something very worthwhile.

I find it so interesting that you worked closely with a family member to create that script. I'm guessing do you do that often? Do you have family members or people that were close to the crime involved in the crafting of the episode.

I find it so interesting that you worked closely with a family member to create that script. I'm guessing do you do that often? Do you have family members or people that were close to the crime involved in the crafting of the episode.

Yeah, not every episode, but it does definitely happen. And I guess because we have that single storyteller style, we don't include interview clips that might not be overly apparent that we do that, but it does happen, Yeah, you know often, will have. I mean, at this point, we get unfortunately, way more emails than we could ever get to for from family members or advocates or friends or family who requesting us to cover cases. I wish I could get to all of them, but it's just not possible at this point.

Yeah, not every episode, but it does definitely happen. And I guess because we have that single storyteller style, we don't include interview clips that might not be overly apparent that we do that, but it does happen, Yeah, you know often, will have. I mean, at this point, we get unfortunately, way more emails than we could ever get to for from family members or advocates or friends or family who requesting us to cover cases. I wish I could get to all of them, but it's just not possible at this point.

Are there any stories that haunt you? Obviously every story is usually horrible.

Are there any stories that haunt you? Obviously every story is usually horrible.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean all the unsolved ones, I mean they all haunt you. They will have an effect at some level. The unsolved ones where we work with family are particularly harder than others. I would say, yeah, the Brittany Phillips one I just touched on. I was lucky enough to meet Maggie in person last year at Crime Con for the first time, so that was really good to meet her in person. The series that I released last year on the Case File Presents Platform Missing Neam that I that took me over four years to put together that series, So obviously that four years that had an effect.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean all the unsolved ones, I mean they all haunt you. They will have an effect at some level. The unsolved ones where we work with family are particularly harder than others. I would say, yeah, the Brittany Phillips one I just touched on. I was lucky enough to meet Maggie in person last year at Crime Con for the first time, so that was really good to meet her in person. The series that I released last year on the Case File Presents Platform Missing Neam that I that took me over four years to put together that series, So obviously that four years that had an effect.

Yep.

Yep.

It's so interesting because like at the start of the chat, you were talking about, you know, seeing the books in your aunties and being like, oh, yeah, true crime and now it's you live breathe talk about it every day.

It's so interesting because like at the start of the chat, you were talking about, you know, seeing the books in your aunties and being like, oh, yeah, true crime and now it's you live breathe talk about it every day.

Does that have an effect on you?

Does that have an effect on you?

I guess it does.

I guess it does.

Obviously has because I can't consume any true crime stuff anymore outside of what's required for work. So people might be talking about the latest Netflix series or whatever, there's.

Obviously has because I can't consume any true crime stuff anymore outside of what's required for work. So people might be talking about the latest Netflix series or whatever, there's.

I haven't watched any of them. I've got no idea.

I haven't watched any of them. I've got no idea.

It's just not something that I can do outside of what's required for work now, so I've got to seek other sort of avenues to unwind and stuff. But yeah, so I guess it's hard to say. I guess when you're living every day.

It's just not something that I can do outside of what's required for work now, so I've got to seek other sort of avenues to unwind and stuff. But yeah, so I guess it's hard to say. I guess when you're living every day.

Yeah, I can still watch the Netflix shows and I live and breathe true crime every day.

Yeah, I can still watch the Netflix shows and I live and breathe true crime every day.

So I think it just is different people.

So I think it just is different people.

Yeah, it just depends on There's no sort of right or wrong answer.

Yeah, it just depends on There's no sort of right or wrong answer.

Yeah, has your research ever I know you were talking about Britney's moum, but has it ever kind of led to a break through or helped an investigation?

Yeah, has your research ever I know you were talking about Britney's moum, but has it ever kind of led to a break through or helped an investigation?

I don't think so, not that I know of, Like that Case File episode hasn't directly led to a case being solved. Obviously, we've covered unsolved cases that have then become solved, not because of the case fil coverage, but that has happened. We've definitely received tips over the years, you know, I've had tips come directly to me and I'm like, I can't I'm not an investigative agency, Like I can't do anything with this, and sort of encourage those people to contact the relevant law enforcement agency.

I don't think so, not that I know of, Like that Case File episode hasn't directly led to a case being solved. Obviously, we've covered unsolved cases that have then become solved, not because of the case fil coverage, but that has happened. We've definitely received tips over the years, you know, I've had tips come directly to me and I'm like, I can't I'm not an investigative agency, Like I can't do anything with this, and sort of encourage those people to contact the relevant law enforcement agency.

That's a lot of pressure on you though, as well, getting tips through your email and you're like, I'm just toasting a podcast.

That's a lot of pressure on you though, as well, getting tips through your email and you're like, I'm just toasting a podcast.

Yeah, yeah, I mean.

Yeah, yeah, I mean.

I get it's tough too because a lot of these cases are decades old, and so from the point of view of the person like, well, the police don't care, they're not doing anything. That's probably their perception. Whether that's the truth or not, I don't know, it could be different. But if there is ever something I could actually do to help a case, of course I would do it. But yeah, I think I definitely don't want to be overreaching and trying to take on the role of an investigative agency. I think the first port of call is the police.

I get it's tough too because a lot of these cases are decades old, and so from the point of view of the person like, well, the police don't care, they're not doing anything. That's probably their perception. Whether that's the truth or not, I don't know, it could be different. But if there is ever something I could actually do to help a case, of course I would do it. But yeah, I think I definitely don't want to be overreaching and trying to take on the role of an investigative agency. I think the first port of call is the police.

And yeah, you've no doubt watched the True Crime Space explode over the last nine years. I mean, we're here, we've popped up and plenty of other podcasts. Do you fixate on the charts? I mean you're usually at the top of them, so you don't need to have to worry. But is it interesting watching it explode and all these new podcasts in your kind of space come up?

And yeah, you've no doubt watched the True Crime Space explode over the last nine years. I mean, we're here, we've popped up and plenty of other podcasts. Do you fixate on the charts? I mean you're usually at the top of them, so you don't need to have to worry. But is it interesting watching it explode and all these new podcasts in your kind of space come up?

Yeah?

Yeah?

It still remains one of the most popular, I believe of the podcast categories, and there's been all sorts of shows that have popped up since and continue to be popular. And yeah, obviously there was In Australia we have the Teacher's Pet which has led to a result, So there's been a lot that has happened over the years.

It still remains one of the most popular, I believe of the podcast categories, and there's been all sorts of shows that have popped up since and continue to be popular. And yeah, obviously there was In Australia we have the Teacher's Pet which has led to a result, So there's been a lot that has happened over the years.

Yeah, why do you think Case File still dominates all these years later?

Yeah, why do you think Case File still dominates all these years later?

That's a great question. I have no idea.

That's a great question. I have no idea.

It's almost like every day I wake up, I'm like, is this the day where everyone stops listening? Or it's hard? It doesn't seem real. And it's pretty rare to have been for a show to be at the top for so long too. I mean, obviously we have regular early episodes, so those bigger sort of investigative shows like Your Teachers pattern stuff that are limited run, they can't say the top because they're not there. Yeah, they're short runs, so we have that to our advantage. But yeah, I don't know, and we don't take it for granted. We continue just to put our heads down, work really hard and try to continually improve the episodes and what we're doing, and as long as people keep listening, we will keep doing it.

It's almost like every day I wake up, I'm like, is this the day where everyone stops listening? Or it's hard? It doesn't seem real. And it's pretty rare to have been for a show to be at the top for so long too. I mean, obviously we have regular early episodes, so those bigger sort of investigative shows like Your Teachers pattern stuff that are limited run, they can't say the top because they're not there. Yeah, they're short runs, so we have that to our advantage. But yeah, I don't know, and we don't take it for granted. We continue just to put our heads down, work really hard and try to continually improve the episodes and what we're doing, and as long as people keep listening, we will keep doing it.

Well, you've obviously met some of your audience in real life. You've done a few in person chats, but do you get a lot of feedback from audience of where they're listening and.

Well, you've obviously met some of your audience in real life. You've done a few in person chats, but do you get a lot of feedback from audience of where they're listening and.

Why love the show.

Why love the show.

The most common feedback that I have gotten from people in both in person people email in and write comments and stuff, is just they appreciate the no nonsense storytelling, I guess, the empathetic storytelling. There's no banter or chit chat, so I guess they like that about our style as well. And just what I touched on before that it's not just we're not just telling stories about gratuitous violences. Generally something else to it, some sort of impact somewhere, judicial system, criminal justice system, police whatever. And yeah, that's I guess the most the most common feedback that I've gotten.

The most common feedback that I have gotten from people in both in person people email in and write comments and stuff, is just they appreciate the no nonsense storytelling, I guess, the empathetic storytelling. There's no banter or chit chat, so I guess they like that about our style as well. And just what I touched on before that it's not just we're not just telling stories about gratuitous violences. Generally something else to it, some sort of impact somewhere, judicial system, criminal justice system, police whatever. And yeah, that's I guess the most the most common feedback that I've gotten.

I have a feeling you accompany many people on their road trips.

I have a feeling you accompany many people on their road trips.

In terms of where they listen. Yeah, yeah, road trips is very popular. Gym walks runs, that sort of thing is very popular as well.

In terms of where they listen. Yeah, yeah, road trips is very popular. Gym walks runs, that sort of thing is very popular as well.

And it's funny.

And it's funny.

Actually, Anthony the other audio bridge was at a friend's house recently and he's popped out of the car and he's heard my voice.

Actually, Anthony the other audio bridge was at a friend's house recently and he's popped out of the car and he's heard my voice.

He's like, what's going on here?

He's like, what's going on here?

And it turns out a neighbor of his friend was in the garage doing a workout and had Case File laring. So, yeah, that's never happened to me. I've never bumped into anyone listening to case File really, no, well.

And it turns out a neighbor of his friend was in the garage doing a workout and had Case File laring. So, yeah, that's never happened to me. I've never bumped into anyone listening to case File really, no, well.

Not that I know of.

Not that I know of.

Yeah, you haven't seen it on their phone. I've done that a few times where I've seen our podcast.

Yeah, you haven't seen it on their phone. I've done that a few times where I've seen our podcast.

On someone's phone. Yeah, no, no, never.

On someone's phone. Yeah, no, no, never.

Because your voice is very familiar now, like you've done over three hundred episodes, and you didn't have any audio training.

Because your voice is very familiar now, like you've done over three hundred episodes, and you didn't have any audio training.

Did you.

Did you.

No, But I think most people that listen would be able to recognize your voice in a lineup.

No, But I think most people that listen would be able to recognize your voice in a lineup.

Yeah, maybe, but some people don't know. At an event only last week and I was talking to someone and I mentioned I was from case File. There was a podcast event and they were like, oh, a famous voice, so who does the voice? And so they had no idea that it was. I'd say that's me, and they were like, oh, you sound very sefferent in real life.

Yeah, maybe, but some people don't know. At an event only last week and I was talking to someone and I mentioned I was from case File. There was a podcast event and they were like, oh, a famous voice, so who does the voice? And so they had no idea that it was. I'd say that's me, and they were like, oh, you sound very sefferent in real life.

So you do tell people that you come across that you.

So you do tell people that you come across that you.

Are not everyone, but in that environment, I was okay to talk about it that particular event, but it's not something or I just freely disclosed and day to day on the street or anything like that.

Are not everyone, but in that environment, I was okay to talk about it that particular event, but it's not something or I just freely disclosed and day to day on the street or anything like that.

No, next I ask the anonymous host of case File who he will reveal his identity to.

No, next I ask the anonymous host of case File who he will reveal his identity to.

Nerdy again.

Nerdy again.

But I was at the Australian Podcast Awards and I hear you were too. I was, but I wouldn't have known it because I didn't know what you learn.

But I was at the Australian Podcast Awards and I hear you were too. I was, but I wouldn't have known it because I didn't know what you learn.

I was just lurking in the shadows at the back of the room there.

I was just lurking in the shadows at the back of the room there.

Yeah, but you don't well, I don't remember you getting up. Case File Presents at least got an award that night.

Yeah, but you don't well, I don't remember you getting up. Case File Presents at least got an award that night.

From memory, we were nominated, didn't didn't win.

From memory, we were nominated, didn't didn't win.

Would you have gotten up if you won?

Would you have gotten up if you won?

No?

No?

No, I think members of the a cast team were going to step in and do that for us.

No, I think members of the a cast team were going to step in and do that for us.

So that was easy.

So that was easy.

Street and Troubled Warders were both nominated in different categories.

Street and Troubled Warders were both nominated in different categories.

So you are still very careful in terms of like you'll do certain things, like you'll stand in front of an intimate audience, but you won't get up on a stage in a podcasting awards.

So you are still very careful in terms of like you'll do certain things, like you'll stand in front of an intimate audience, but you won't get up on a stage in a podcasting awards.

Yeah.

Yeah.