The idea of using leverage to layer one investment return, say equities, on top of another, say a managed futures strategy, is something institutional investors have been doing for decades under the term “portable alpha.” Now a suite of young, fast-growing exchange-traded funds have come along—they’re called “return stacking” ETFs—and they’re offering such layering to the masses.

On this episode, Joel and Eric speak with Corey Hoffstein, chief executive and chief information officer of Newfound Research and one of the masterminds behind the Return Stacked ETF suite. They discuss how these ETFs work, where they fit in a portfolio and why this is a more responsible use of leverage than the kind that blew up the market in 2008.