This is not your grandfather’s exchange-traded fund industry. What started as boring, predictable and passive has morphed into strategies and packaged trades being packed into new ETFs. These include leverage, options overlays and private assets. Given all of this upheaval, some from the old school are worried investors aren’t receiving the exposure and protection from issuers they think they are.

On this episode of Trillions, Joel Weber and Eric Balchunas talk to ETF veteran and author Dave Nadig about his buzzworthy blog post in which he borrows language from the hacker world, describing ETFs as “black hat” versus “white hat.” To figure out what these developments mean for the industry, they are joined by cross-asset reporter Vildana Hajric.