Getting people to think differently when deciding where to travel next is a specialty of the travel journalist Andrew Nelson, a writer for two decades with National Geographic Travel and a two-time Lowell Thomas prize winner. Andrew joins Bruce on the podcast to discuss places in his new National Geographic book, Here Not There, revealing 100 alternative travel destinations to the ones we've probably all heard about 1,000 times.

Andrew tells us about the places that are overlooked and why they're worth visiting, in addition to the obvious benefit of often being less crowded and less expensive. He guides us to the Miami of the North, the Amsterdam of the Midwest, and a place he describes as the most accessible yet mysterious places he's ever visited. He'll even tell us where you can dance until dawn and drink (responsibly) like a fool.

Andrew doesn't just list places in this Travel That Matters episode, but tells us about the history, the tours and events you can attend, and the food that's there for you to enjoy. He emphasizes the element of surprise in travel, while adding in bragging rights that come with being among the few who have traveled to some of these alternative destinations.

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You can find out more details about the locations below mentioned in the episode:

• Zozobra Festival: https://burnzozobra.com/
• The Secret Stairs of Los Angeles https://secretstairs-la.com/
• San Cassiano, Dolomites https://www.altabadia.org/en/italian-alps-dolomites/villages/san-cassiano.html
• Kotor, Montenegro https://www.turismomontenegro.es/ciudades-de-montenegro/kotor/
• Alamos, Sonora https://www.gob.mx/sectur/articulos/alamos-sonora
• Bottleworks Hotel: https://www.bottleworkshotel.com/

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To learn more about Andrew Nelson, check out his website https://andrewtnelson.com/

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Travel That Matters is a CurtCo Media production.

Host: Bruce Wallin

Producer: AJ Moseley

Marketing: Catrin Skaperdas

Music: Joey Salvia