This podcast is brought to you by HKX, Asia's ETF marketplace. Well, you'll find a gateway to liquidity and a diverse selection of opportunities across asset classes, sectors and themes in Asia and beyond. Search HKX to learn more.

This podcast is brought to you by HKX, Asia's ETF marketplace. Well, you'll find a gateway to liquidity and a diverse selection of opportunities across asset classes, sectors and themes in Asia and beyond. Search HKX to learn more.

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, and good nights. Wherever you are in this vast, beautiful planet. You're joining us from Welcome to Tiger Money, a Bloomberg podcast about all things investing with a twist on exchange traded funds in Asia and beyond. I'm your host David Ingless, Chief Markets Editor for the Asia Pacific at Bloomberg TV. I'm Asto, the hosts of the China Show. In My co pilots in this journey as Rebecca sim She's head of Asia Pacific TTF research at Bloomberg Intelligence. The conversation, of course, is strictly non confidential, So if you like what you here, do not forget to subscribe to share and so also look.

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, and good nights. Wherever you are in this vast, beautiful planet. You're joining us from Welcome to Tiger Money, a Bloomberg podcast about all things investing with a twist on exchange traded funds in Asia and beyond. I'm your host David Ingless, Chief Markets Editor for the Asia Pacific at Bloomberg TV. I'm Asto, the hosts of the China Show. In My co pilots in this journey as Rebecca sim She's head of Asia Pacific TTF research at Bloomberg Intelligence. The conversation, of course, is strictly non confidential, So if you like what you here, do not forget to subscribe to share and so also look.

The Middle East has been a very hot spot for investors, and specifically Soaudi Arabia. In Hong Kong, We've had the largest ever Saudi Arabia ETF list globally last year and most recently cross listed into mainland China. Let's bring in Lee Hodkinson, the group chief strategy officer from Saudi tadal Wil Group, who has thirty five years of capital market experience and has worked across Europe, America, China, Russia, India and now Saudi Arabia. Thank you so much for joining us here today on Tiger Money.

The Middle East has been a very hot spot for investors, and specifically Soaudi Arabia. In Hong Kong, We've had the largest ever Saudi Arabia ETF list globally last year and most recently cross listed into mainland China. Let's bring in Lee Hodkinson, the group chief strategy officer from Saudi tadal Wil Group, who has thirty five years of capital market experience and has worked across Europe, America, China, Russia, India and now Saudi Arabia. Thank you so much for joining us here today on Tiger Money.

Thank you for the opportunity.

Thank you for the opportunity.

Yeah, Lee, Well, I'm sure in the thirty five years have been in the industry, I've seen massive change. You know, Increasingly we hear a lot more and more about Middle East, more and more about Saudi Arabia, And I'm wondering in your job, what do you think investors do not get about Saudi? What is happening and where do you think this story goes?

Yeah, Lee, Well, I'm sure in the thirty five years have been in the industry, I've seen massive change. You know, Increasingly we hear a lot more and more about Middle East, more and more about Saudi Arabia, And I'm wondering in your job, what do you think investors do not get about Saudi? What is happening and where do you think this story goes?

Yeah, look, it's an incredible story. I think regionally as much as in Saudi, But what's happening in Saudi Araybray's really astonishing. During my time y s Urinex, I spent a lot of time with offices in Asia, Japan, Hong Kong, Singapore, and I spent probably at least four sometimes six trips a year into China, during those years from sort of twenty twelve onwards, as we were really capturing outflow and business coming from the mainland in China, and what I saw there was, you know, this astonishing transformation of China into an enormous economy and a global player. And I always felt that I'd missed out a little bit by not being on the ground permanently and really being part of it. And so I took my job two years ago almost of the day actually, I took my job in Saudi because I really felt it was a genuine opportunity for me to have a front row seat at what is maybe the last transformation of a G twenty nation. I mean, it's an astonishing opportunity, and you know, hopefully in my own small way, I can shape a lift little bit of that and sort of help make things bigger and better. And what's going on on the ground, like China went through, is just massive progress. READD to me feels a lot like Sanjen did fifteen years ago. There's a new road, there's a new bridge, there's a new building that there are and I think fourteen Mechelan style restaurants opening this year alone. I went to the first opera in Saudi a couple of months ago. There's fantastic football, there's tennis as formula one. I mean, the sort of social change and transformation is incredible. Seventy percent of the country are under thirty five, so there's this enormous sort of youthful energy and entrepreneurship. So the social side of thing is incredible. From a business and commercial perspective, there are enormous opportunities in multiple sectors. Tourism I think is going to be explosive over the coming years. We obviously have the new read Air. There are lots and lots of super five star hotels opening on the West coast. Healthcare is an enormous sector, mining metals, real estate, capital markets, you know, close to my heart. We've seen transformation of the Saudi Todaur Wall Group and the sort of core exchange five or six years ago be the largest regional player but not particularly relevant on a global stage. And today, depending on what the dollars doing, we're eighth or ninth largest equity market on the planet. And you know our IPO pipeline. I think we have over fifty applicants this year. I think twenty three or twenty four already done. Average daily training volumes are enormous. Every bank, broker, asset manager you know cycling through my officers are setting up in Saudi. It's incredible. I have to say. The challenge I think in capital markets is focus, because you can't do everything all the time, all at once. So it's really about prior tization and focus. And the Saudi authorities under Vision twenty thirty you've got a Financial Services Development Plan which sort of sets out those priorities and progress is phenomenal. So I think the opportunity for investors in some respects is only just beginning. Ten percent of our market is owned by foreign investors, twenty percent of daily training volume comes from Asian investors, so there's a whole new stream of activity. And Rebecca, you refer to the ETF deal in China, I think that's only just going to continue to grow.

Yeah, look, it's an incredible story. I think regionally as much as in Saudi, But what's happening in Saudi Araybray's really astonishing. During my time y s Urinex, I spent a lot of time with offices in Asia, Japan, Hong Kong, Singapore, and I spent probably at least four sometimes six trips a year into China, during those years from sort of twenty twelve onwards, as we were really capturing outflow and business coming from the mainland in China, and what I saw there was, you know, this astonishing transformation of China into an enormous economy and a global player. And I always felt that I'd missed out a little bit by not being on the ground permanently and really being part of it. And so I took my job two years ago almost of the day actually, I took my job in Saudi because I really felt it was a genuine opportunity for me to have a front row seat at what is maybe the last transformation of a G twenty nation. I mean, it's an astonishing opportunity, and you know, hopefully in my own small way, I can shape a lift little bit of that and sort of help make things bigger and better. And what's going on on the ground, like China went through, is just massive progress. READD to me feels a lot like Sanjen did fifteen years ago. There's a new road, there's a new bridge, there's a new building that there are and I think fourteen Mechelan style restaurants opening this year alone. I went to the first opera in Saudi a couple of months ago. There's fantastic football, there's tennis as formula one. I mean, the sort of social change and transformation is incredible. Seventy percent of the country are under thirty five, so there's this enormous sort of youthful energy and entrepreneurship. So the social side of thing is incredible. From a business and commercial perspective, there are enormous opportunities in multiple sectors. Tourism I think is going to be explosive over the coming years. We obviously have the new read Air. There are lots and lots of super five star hotels opening on the West coast. Healthcare is an enormous sector, mining metals, real estate, capital markets, you know, close to my heart. We've seen transformation of the Saudi Todaur Wall Group and the sort of core exchange five or six years ago be the largest regional player but not particularly relevant on a global stage. And today, depending on what the dollars doing, we're eighth or ninth largest equity market on the planet. And you know our IPO pipeline. I think we have over fifty applicants this year. I think twenty three or twenty four already done. Average daily training volumes are enormous. Every bank, broker, asset manager you know cycling through my officers are setting up in Saudi. It's incredible. I have to say. The challenge I think in capital markets is focus, because you can't do everything all the time, all at once. So it's really about prior tization and focus. And the Saudi authorities under Vision twenty thirty you've got a Financial Services Development Plan which sort of sets out those priorities and progress is phenomenal. So I think the opportunity for investors in some respects is only just beginning. Ten percent of our market is owned by foreign investors, twenty percent of daily training volume comes from Asian investors, so there's a whole new stream of activity. And Rebecca, you refer to the ETF deal in China, I think that's only just going to continue to grow.

To your point, the Kingdom wants to achieve not just a lot, but a lot on many many fronts. I guess the next question I have is how does the exchange How does the group your group get involved in this change specifically, I.

To your point, the Kingdom wants to achieve not just a lot, but a lot on many many fronts. I guess the next question I have is how does the exchange How does the group your group get involved in this change specifically, I.

Mean, essentially we're at the heart of the capital markets revolution in the Kingdom. You know, really our strategy falls along two tracks. The first is to make sure that we have efficient and liquid markets for issuers and investors that help drive forward the Vision twenty thirty action plan. And alongside that, we've got a sort of more self deterministic goal of growing through diversification as a listed company ourselves. And that's why you see us making investments into the Dubai Mercantile Exchange, which will become in September the Golf Mercantile Exchange. That's why we've acquired majority shareholding in direct FN. And you know, we're really starting to broaden our horizons data analytics indices really to start building out a powerful globally relevant franchise beyond the core equity business.

Mean, essentially we're at the heart of the capital markets revolution in the Kingdom. You know, really our strategy falls along two tracks. The first is to make sure that we have efficient and liquid markets for issuers and investors that help drive forward the Vision twenty thirty action plan. And alongside that, we've got a sort of more self deterministic goal of growing through diversification as a listed company ourselves. And that's why you see us making investments into the Dubai Mercantile Exchange, which will become in September the Golf Mercantile Exchange. That's why we've acquired majority shareholding in direct FN. And you know, we're really starting to broaden our horizons data analytics indices really to start building out a powerful globally relevant franchise beyond the core equity business.

Right, Certainly, some of the things that we noticed from outside looking in. You obviously have one very big company listing. You have valuations that are either extremely stretched one side, extremely cheap the other. The perception isn't correct me if I'm wrong. A lot of the flow is driven by retail investors, and that might or may or may not chime in me keep foreign investors that you need away until part of the piping is sort of cleaned up and replenished and upgraded. Is that an issue that you're aware of. Is that an issue at all that you're looking to address?

Right, Certainly, some of the things that we noticed from outside looking in. You obviously have one very big company listing. You have valuations that are either extremely stretched one side, extremely cheap the other. The perception isn't correct me if I'm wrong. A lot of the flow is driven by retail investors, and that might or may or may not chime in me keep foreign investors that you need away until part of the piping is sort of cleaned up and replenished and upgraded. Is that an issue that you're aware of. Is that an issue at all that you're looking to address?

For sure, it's changing, David. You know, once upon a time the proportion of retail training was over seventy percent. Now it's sort of around sixty percent, and there are days where you know there's an equilibrium. We've spent a lot of time, money, and effort on building out what I describe as the internationalization, institutionalization, and electronification of our marketplace. Through our data center, we now have you know, significant number of international liquidity providers. They're accounting for twenty percent of market activity. If you think about those firms an electronically generated business in your accounts of sixty to sixty five percent of average daily equity markets in read, it's about twenty percent. We've got a long way to go, but that's changing, you know, literally every month. So we're seeing a tremendous amount of electronification, institutionalization, and internationalization coming to the market. And look, it won't change completely overnight, but there are very very strong signals that that's now the sort of makeup of the liquidity on the exchange is changing dramatically, so.

For sure, it's changing, David. You know, once upon a time the proportion of retail training was over seventy percent. Now it's sort of around sixty percent, and there are days where you know there's an equilibrium. We've spent a lot of time, money, and effort on building out what I describe as the internationalization, institutionalization, and electronification of our marketplace. Through our data center, we now have you know, significant number of international liquidity providers. They're accounting for twenty percent of market activity. If you think about those firms an electronically generated business in your accounts of sixty to sixty five percent of average daily equity markets in read, it's about twenty percent. We've got a long way to go, but that's changing, you know, literally every month. So we're seeing a tremendous amount of electronification, institutionalization, and internationalization coming to the market. And look, it won't change completely overnight, but there are very very strong signals that that's now the sort of makeup of the liquidity on the exchange is changing dramatically, so.

We speak about the Tadawil Group. You guys are a publicly listed company with four main subsidiaries which are at the Saudi Exchange, the Security Is Clearing Center Company, the Security Is Depository Center and Vami. There are a lot of partnership that you guys have. Specifically, the Saudi Exchange has joined other international exchanges. In Hong Kong, you are considered a recognized stock exchange as well as some in mainland China. Could you share with us any insights on how did this happen, what the background is, and what are your thoughts.

We speak about the Tadawil Group. You guys are a publicly listed company with four main subsidiaries which are at the Saudi Exchange, the Security Is Clearing Center Company, the Security Is Depository Center and Vami. There are a lot of partnership that you guys have. Specifically, the Saudi Exchange has joined other international exchanges. In Hong Kong, you are considered a recognized stock exchange as well as some in mainland China. Could you share with us any insights on how did this happen, what the background is, and what are your thoughts.

Sure, you know, finance traditionally has been an American business, if you like, or a Western business in large part. But what we've seen over the last decade, and as I learned from my time in Asia with NYC Eurinext, the flows coming out of Asia, China, I think India is really starting to emerge, you know, obviously Singapore, Hong Kong. These flows are really really significant, and I think what we've done with our colleagues in China is to really begin the process of awakening and marketing the Saudi equity story to Chinese investors via these ETFs, and that came about through mutual discussions. Exchange world is quite a small world, and we all meet each other fairly often, but in many respects, it was a no brainer. Connecting Chinese and Saudi investment flows bilaterally. Not only is good for the exchanges and good for the invest it's also good for the liquidity of the listed companies. So I think you can expect a lot more from us and will work very hard with our Chinese counterparts on those relationships because the initial success of those products been pretty good. I think there's another angle as well, which relates to our thirty two point six percent investment in the Dubai Mercantile Exchange, and that is that the oil product, the Omani oil product. The clients are in the East of Suez, so most of those clients are in India, Singapore, China, and I'm off at the end of this month on a client road show in the mainland, in India and around Asia, really to just to sort of solidify those relationships with the major clients, but also to sort of explore new opportunities, particularly in the asset management area, where you know, I think there's a tremendous upside opportunity in the Middle East generally and in Saudi we only have nine ETFs listed at the moment, there's a tremendous upside. Again, if you look at how US fund managers use ETFs to gain access to European markets, still quite fragmented, you know, lots of different withholding taxes. Clearing ETF as a structure is a great mechanism to gain access. I see that happening in the Middle East as well, and as to say, from a Chinese perspective, from an Asian perspective, more broadly, there's a lot of interest.

Sure, you know, finance traditionally has been an American business, if you like, or a Western business in large part. But what we've seen over the last decade, and as I learned from my time in Asia with NYC Eurinext, the flows coming out of Asia, China, I think India is really starting to emerge, you know, obviously Singapore, Hong Kong. These flows are really really significant, and I think what we've done with our colleagues in China is to really begin the process of awakening and marketing the Saudi equity story to Chinese investors via these ETFs, and that came about through mutual discussions. Exchange world is quite a small world, and we all meet each other fairly often, but in many respects, it was a no brainer. Connecting Chinese and Saudi investment flows bilaterally. Not only is good for the exchanges and good for the invest it's also good for the liquidity of the listed companies. So I think you can expect a lot more from us and will work very hard with our Chinese counterparts on those relationships because the initial success of those products been pretty good. I think there's another angle as well, which relates to our thirty two point six percent investment in the Dubai Mercantile Exchange, and that is that the oil product, the Omani oil product. The clients are in the East of Suez, so most of those clients are in India, Singapore, China, and I'm off at the end of this month on a client road show in the mainland, in India and around Asia, really to just to sort of solidify those relationships with the major clients, but also to sort of explore new opportunities, particularly in the asset management area, where you know, I think there's a tremendous upside opportunity in the Middle East generally and in Saudi we only have nine ETFs listed at the moment, there's a tremendous upside. Again, if you look at how US fund managers use ETFs to gain access to European markets, still quite fragmented, you know, lots of different withholding taxes. Clearing ETF as a structure is a great mechanism to gain access. I see that happening in the Middle East as well, and as to say, from a Chinese perspective, from an Asian perspective, more broadly, there's a lot of interest.

So let's just jump on what you said. You mentioned that the Saudi Exchange only has nine ETFs with fifty four million in assets under management. Of those nine ETFs, two are tracking US equities and the rest is tracking Saudi companies. There's a lot of talks about cross listing potential. You know, you mentioned that Asia was one of the first, So why Asia as opposed to the US or South America. We've seen a lot of interest coming out of mainland China, but cross listing potential, what do you see other opportunities and what could be the next steps in terms of collaboration with China. For instance, last year's CSOP launched the largest ever Saudi Arabia ETF in partnership with the Public Investment Fund, which is a sovereign wealth fund of Saudi Arabia. And they've recently signed a m or U with major Chinese state banks. So what can we expect to happen next.

So let's just jump on what you said. You mentioned that the Saudi Exchange only has nine ETFs with fifty four million in assets under management. Of those nine ETFs, two are tracking US equities and the rest is tracking Saudi companies. There's a lot of talks about cross listing potential. You know, you mentioned that Asia was one of the first, So why Asia as opposed to the US or South America. We've seen a lot of interest coming out of mainland China, but cross listing potential, what do you see other opportunities and what could be the next steps in terms of collaboration with China. For instance, last year's CSOP launched the largest ever Saudi Arabia ETF in partnership with the Public Investment Fund, which is a sovereign wealth fund of Saudi Arabia. And they've recently signed a m or U with major Chinese state banks. So what can we expect to happen next.

Yeah, Look, I think geographically for a second, read is a really well positioned geographical hub to connect East and West, and you know, the time zones looking to Asia are quite favorable. And also I think there is an element of working with the Chinese exchanges and Chinese investors. We're both doing this for the first time together and we're not necessarily constrained by legacy. It's quite refreshing for us to think about creating solutions that make sense for us in our regional context. And the same is also true for our Chinese counterparts. So I think we can work in a more agile and flexible way because not constrained by the legacy. I think the other interesting factor is just the sort of sheer size of investment dollars available that can come from Chinese investors, from Indian investors, from Asian investors very very significant activity, and we see a small number of Chinese brokers either opening or looking to open in the Middle East with read as the hub. So we're really at the marketing stage. And where could this go? Well, the answer is the sky's the limit. It's really for me more about the priority in the cadence and the timing. But I think the ties there's a lot of very very serious interest, and I think I'm right in saying that China is Saudi's largest bilateral trading partner. They'll always be very strong ties with the America, of course, but this pivot between East and West I think opens up a number of very important opportunities. We would definitely like to see more investment coming into the Kingdom. ETFs I think provide a really good structure. The idea of cross listings, the idea of just generally closer time around investment flows just makes sense for everybody.

Yeah, Look, I think geographically for a second, read is a really well positioned geographical hub to connect East and West, and you know, the time zones looking to Asia are quite favorable. And also I think there is an element of working with the Chinese exchanges and Chinese investors. We're both doing this for the first time together and we're not necessarily constrained by legacy. It's quite refreshing for us to think about creating solutions that make sense for us in our regional context. And the same is also true for our Chinese counterparts. So I think we can work in a more agile and flexible way because not constrained by the legacy. I think the other interesting factor is just the sort of sheer size of investment dollars available that can come from Chinese investors, from Indian investors, from Asian investors very very significant activity, and we see a small number of Chinese brokers either opening or looking to open in the Middle East with read as the hub. So we're really at the marketing stage. And where could this go? Well, the answer is the sky's the limit. It's really for me more about the priority in the cadence and the timing. But I think the ties there's a lot of very very serious interest, and I think I'm right in saying that China is Saudi's largest bilateral trading partner. They'll always be very strong ties with the America, of course, but this pivot between East and West I think opens up a number of very important opportunities. We would definitely like to see more investment coming into the Kingdom. ETFs I think provide a really good structure. The idea of cross listings, the idea of just generally closer time around investment flows just makes sense for everybody.

So when do you think the first cross listing of ETFs will happen in Saudi Arabia?

So when do you think the first cross listing of ETFs will happen in Saudi Arabia?

Well, I wish I could give you a straight answer. I mean, I think there's a lot of work going on between the parties and the regulators. So I think it will take a while, but it's definitely a priority. We want to make it happen as soon as we can.

Well, I wish I could give you a straight answer. I mean, I think there's a lot of work going on between the parties and the regulators. So I think it will take a while, but it's definitely a priority. We want to make it happen as soon as we can.

End of year next year.

End of year next year.

I was going to be nice and ask is it going to come before the fourth quarter?

I was going to be nice and ask is it going to come before the fourth quarter?

But yeah, look, it's on its way, I think, is the answer I'd give.

But yeah, look, it's on its way, I think, is the answer I'd give.

You, right, And I mean, it's safe to assume that both sides want this to happen, and it's simply you know, the I would call breocracy, but it's you know, how the game is played. That's maybe just determining the timeline.

You, right, And I mean, it's safe to assume that both sides want this to happen, and it's simply you know, the I would call breocracy, but it's you know, how the game is played. That's maybe just determining the timeline.

Yeah, I think there's often a misunderstanding about these kind of things that people think, well, both exchanges have an agreement, so why don't you just cross lists? But actually these things are underpinned by very robe asked and complex regulatory relationships because first and foremost, the protection of investors is critical for both sides, and it's vital that both countries get that right before launching product, particularly where you know there's a retail sensitivity to it. So you know, our view is that will take a conservative and cautious approach, but that's okay. People underestimate or they overestimate change in the short term underestimate it in the long term. So I think our horizon is sort of through a decade. Really strategically, these are partnerships with Chinese exchanges that we want to prosper, you know, we want them to endure for a long time. It's not just a sort of fast money thing. It's really about building ties along that pivot that give us an enduring and sustainable business.

Yeah, I think there's often a misunderstanding about these kind of things that people think, well, both exchanges have an agreement, so why don't you just cross lists? But actually these things are underpinned by very robe asked and complex regulatory relationships because first and foremost, the protection of investors is critical for both sides, and it's vital that both countries get that right before launching product, particularly where you know there's a retail sensitivity to it. So you know, our view is that will take a conservative and cautious approach, but that's okay. People underestimate or they overestimate change in the short term underestimate it in the long term. So I think our horizon is sort of through a decade. Really strategically, these are partnerships with Chinese exchanges that we want to prosper, you know, we want them to endure for a long time. It's not just a sort of fast money thing. It's really about building ties along that pivot that give us an enduring and sustainable business.

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I remember one of the conversations I had on and this was on the TV show also in the podcast, so the day that the ETF listed Rebecca and you know this of course in shan Jen and we were joined on the show subsequently on the podcast by the CEO of CSOP and one of the questions I asked her was what's the appeal of this product you're putting out in the mainland market. And her words, not mine, it's the ability and paraphrase, it's ability for mail and investors to get exposure to the oil story in Saudi, and so I guess, let me building that and ask you, running the risk of over simplifying things, what is going on beyond oil and its derivative sectors in Saudi? You know, what are the opportunities beyond what most people already know?

I remember one of the conversations I had on and this was on the TV show also in the podcast, so the day that the ETF listed Rebecca and you know this of course in shan Jen and we were joined on the show subsequently on the podcast by the CEO of CSOP and one of the questions I asked her was what's the appeal of this product you're putting out in the mainland market. And her words, not mine, it's the ability and paraphrase, it's ability for mail and investors to get exposure to the oil story in Saudi, and so I guess, let me building that and ask you, running the risk of over simplifying things, what is going on beyond oil and its derivative sectors in Saudi? You know, what are the opportunities beyond what most people already know?

Yeah, I mean how long have we got? I mean it's incredible. I think think non oil economy in Saudi grew by four point six percent last year. Tourism, healthcare, real estate, mining, metals. There are a number of very fast growing, very large sectors in the Saudi economy, and I think when you're launching a new product in a new jurisdiction, you need to make sure that you're focused on the area that makes most sense. So if you were to stop a Chinese retail investor walking down the street in Shanghai, Shenzen and say, other than a Ramco, what are your favorite picks for Saudi stocks? They wouldn't have a great answer for you. And the same is true in reverse. So actually what you need to do is to start with those sort of let's call it brand recognition, and then when you've got that set of relationships, then you can build out the other products. And that's very much the plan and that's why you got the response you did. Personally, I think tourism just my own experience to my family traveling around the country. There are remarkable sites. There are remarkable places in Saudi that the world has just not really been exposed to. And as the new airline gets going, as visitors start coming to the new hotels and tourism expands, as it is already beyond religious tourism, I think that sector is going to be offering enormous upside. And the numbers are already huge in terms of tourists coming to the country and growth. But I see it continuing. And there are a lot of big events coming up as well, the Expo, and I think the Asian Games and hopefully at World Cup at some point. There are a lot of things going on that will bring people to the kingdom. And I think that there's a runway of growth in tourism alone for many, many many years to come. I mean, if you look at the story of say somewhere like Dubai twenty five thirty years ago, the tourism uptick there has been phenomenal. I see the same thing happening in React, if not more, I should say the Kingdom because these natural wonders, the edge of the world and a and these kind of places are just incredible. They're incredible.

Yeah, I mean how long have we got? I mean it's incredible. I think think non oil economy in Saudi grew by four point six percent last year. Tourism, healthcare, real estate, mining, metals. There are a number of very fast growing, very large sectors in the Saudi economy, and I think when you're launching a new product in a new jurisdiction, you need to make sure that you're focused on the area that makes most sense. So if you were to stop a Chinese retail investor walking down the street in Shanghai, Shenzen and say, other than a Ramco, what are your favorite picks for Saudi stocks? They wouldn't have a great answer for you. And the same is true in reverse. So actually what you need to do is to start with those sort of let's call it brand recognition, and then when you've got that set of relationships, then you can build out the other products. And that's very much the plan and that's why you got the response you did. Personally, I think tourism just my own experience to my family traveling around the country. There are remarkable sites. There are remarkable places in Saudi that the world has just not really been exposed to. And as the new airline gets going, as visitors start coming to the new hotels and tourism expands, as it is already beyond religious tourism, I think that sector is going to be offering enormous upside. And the numbers are already huge in terms of tourists coming to the country and growth. But I see it continuing. And there are a lot of big events coming up as well, the Expo, and I think the Asian Games and hopefully at World Cup at some point. There are a lot of things going on that will bring people to the kingdom. And I think that there's a runway of growth in tourism alone for many, many many years to come. I mean, if you look at the story of say somewhere like Dubai twenty five thirty years ago, the tourism uptick there has been phenomenal. I see the same thing happening in React, if not more, I should say the Kingdom because these natural wonders, the edge of the world and a and these kind of places are just incredible. They're incredible.

You know, there are very few places in the world that have not just a vision, but the resources to actually back up trying to move the economy in different directions. You know, they're versifying away from oil for example, in this case. Does it ever occur to you that money's an issue? Again, oversimplifying an issue there? People know Saudi is a very wealthy country. Is money an issue?

You know, there are very few places in the world that have not just a vision, but the resources to actually back up trying to move the economy in different directions. You know, they're versifying away from oil for example, in this case. Does it ever occur to you that money's an issue? Again, oversimplifying an issue there? People know Saudi is a very wealthy country. Is money an issue?

Well, I think the perception of Saudi is different from the reality. I think it would be a mistake for international investors listeners to this podcast to be thinking that there's an unlimited supply of money and money's just thrown around. That is absolutely not the case. In fact, I would argue the from my own experience, the way that our major shareholder is PIF. Our relationship with PIF managed very very carefully through some very strong connections when we've made acquisitions. The level of discipline, rigor and governance that we go through around valuation, around post merger integration KPIs is gold standard, and you know, it says good, if not better than some of the other international organizations I've worked for. So the main takeaway is investment is made carefully, results are measured. Prioritization I think more recently is taking place that can only be a good thing. And I think any visitor to Read or the Kingdom generally would see the fruits of these investments starting to pay off. And it's coming through in non oil economy growth.

Well, I think the perception of Saudi is different from the reality. I think it would be a mistake for international investors listeners to this podcast to be thinking that there's an unlimited supply of money and money's just thrown around. That is absolutely not the case. In fact, I would argue the from my own experience, the way that our major shareholder is PIF. Our relationship with PIF managed very very carefully through some very strong connections when we've made acquisitions. The level of discipline, rigor and governance that we go through around valuation, around post merger integration KPIs is gold standard, and you know, it says good, if not better than some of the other international organizations I've worked for. So the main takeaway is investment is made carefully, results are measured. Prioritization I think more recently is taking place that can only be a good thing. And I think any visitor to Read or the Kingdom generally would see the fruits of these investments starting to pay off. And it's coming through in non oil economy growth.

So in terms of investments paying off, you guys have recently entered the commodities market great time in coogles up one hundred and fifty percent called so we're almost thirty percent for our listteners. You may not know that there's around three hundred billion dollars worth of commodities ETF, with the Spider Gold ETF being the largest at sixty six billion. But a fun fact for our listeners is that there's actually a spider Gold Mini ETF which only charges ten basis points as opposed to forty basis points. So, Lee, can you tell us about the commodities market, why you guys decided to enter this and watch an investors know?

So in terms of investments paying off, you guys have recently entered the commodities market great time in coogles up one hundred and fifty percent called so we're almost thirty percent for our listteners. You may not know that there's around three hundred billion dollars worth of commodities ETF, with the Spider Gold ETF being the largest at sixty six billion. But a fun fact for our listeners is that there's actually a spider Gold Mini ETF which only charges ten basis points as opposed to forty basis points. So, Lee, can you tell us about the commodities market, why you guys decided to enter this and watch an investors know?

Sure? Remarkably, Saudi is the only G twenty nation without commodities exchange, and you could argue in some respect that's true. Yeah, in some respects it should be the first. So when I arrived a couple of years ago and started working with my colleagues on strategy, it felt very much to me that we had an opportunity in the commodity space, in the context of future oriented growth and sustainable products, to position ourselves as a regional player with global relevance. If you think about products like hydrogen green metals, all of these new few products are going to become the commodities of the future, battery metals. I felt that we had a significant opportunity and a real world economy set of actors that are incredibly powerful and important on the global stage. The question for us then was well, how do we realize that? How do we get into that business? And we chose, and I'm very glad we did. We chose to partner with CME and the Omanian Dubai Sovereign Wealth Funds to acquire a stake in Dubai Mercantile Exchange, just a long history of being the largest physically delivered crude old contract with a focus on East of Suez clients, and really our game plan there is to work with those world class partners on broadening that business away from just pure play oil into other asset classes as well. And I think there are absolutely natural links, as Rebecca pointed out, between pure play commodity business and the listed companies that we have on our market and those that we're trying to attract, and also the ETF space. I mean, I think mini products in the region, mini gold, mini silver, even you know, mini oil products I think have a very very big future and will be very very interesting in years to come in the ETF space.

Sure? Remarkably, Saudi is the only G twenty nation without commodities exchange, and you could argue in some respect that's true. Yeah, in some respects it should be the first. So when I arrived a couple of years ago and started working with my colleagues on strategy, it felt very much to me that we had an opportunity in the commodity space, in the context of future oriented growth and sustainable products, to position ourselves as a regional player with global relevance. If you think about products like hydrogen green metals, all of these new few products are going to become the commodities of the future, battery metals. I felt that we had a significant opportunity and a real world economy set of actors that are incredibly powerful and important on the global stage. The question for us then was well, how do we realize that? How do we get into that business? And we chose, and I'm very glad we did. We chose to partner with CME and the Omanian Dubai Sovereign Wealth Funds to acquire a stake in Dubai Mercantile Exchange, just a long history of being the largest physically delivered crude old contract with a focus on East of Suez clients, and really our game plan there is to work with those world class partners on broadening that business away from just pure play oil into other asset classes as well. And I think there are absolutely natural links, as Rebecca pointed out, between pure play commodity business and the listed companies that we have on our market and those that we're trying to attract, and also the ETF space. I mean, I think mini products in the region, mini gold, mini silver, even you know, mini oil products I think have a very very big future and will be very very interesting in years to come in the ETF space.

What moves do you see yourself and the group making in the years ahead along those lines of building your commodity footprint? Is it the partnerships you laid out? Do you see yourself building something from scratch? Are you looking to at some point directly acquire some assets for example?

What moves do you see yourself and the group making in the years ahead along those lines of building your commodity footprint? Is it the partnerships you laid out? Do you see yourself building something from scratch? Are you looking to at some point directly acquire some assets for example?

Yeah, I think M and A will play a bigger role in our future than it has done in our past because what we need to do essentially is to develop non transaction revenues and higher quality earnings. So the challenge that all exchanges have is building out cyclical downside protection when interest rates go up and there's rotation into fixed income products, your equity market calls off, how do you build out a sustainable, predictable economics. So we're looking across the derivative space, data analytics, in the post trade arena as well in terms of collateral management, stopping learning, all of these things. We've got a defined growth plan, a lot of organic activities going on, and we'll look for investments, partnerships and acquisitions where they help accelerate our strategic plans. We won't be looking for M and A particularly to sort of bulk up and just get bigger for the sake of it. It's really about how we bring competency, capability and capacity to the Kingdom to help drive all of that transformation. And that was behind our investment in direct FN, the technology company. You know, fantastic low cost development centers in places like Sri Lanka and Pakistan, really really good business diversification, in partnership with seeing ME and others in commodities. You know, we'll do more of those things, but they'll be sort of surgical and carefully thought through, lots of discipline and rigor around value and post merger integration. But there'll be a lot more of that, I think than you've seen in the past. And that's really about us living up to our ambition of becoming a top three player. That was the I think in an interview with Bloomberg, I think the Crown Prints a couple of years ago said that, you know, you had a big ambition for the Saudi Tadawl Group and the Kingdom generally to be a top three player in financial market. So it'll take us while to get there, but we're well on that path and there's a very very exciting journey out of us.

Yeah, I think M and A will play a bigger role in our future than it has done in our past because what we need to do essentially is to develop non transaction revenues and higher quality earnings. So the challenge that all exchanges have is building out cyclical downside protection when interest rates go up and there's rotation into fixed income products, your equity market calls off, how do you build out a sustainable, predictable economics. So we're looking across the derivative space, data analytics, in the post trade arena as well in terms of collateral management, stopping learning, all of these things. We've got a defined growth plan, a lot of organic activities going on, and we'll look for investments, partnerships and acquisitions where they help accelerate our strategic plans. We won't be looking for M and A particularly to sort of bulk up and just get bigger for the sake of it. It's really about how we bring competency, capability and capacity to the Kingdom to help drive all of that transformation. And that was behind our investment in direct FN, the technology company. You know, fantastic low cost development centers in places like Sri Lanka and Pakistan, really really good business diversification, in partnership with seeing ME and others in commodities. You know, we'll do more of those things, but they'll be sort of surgical and carefully thought through, lots of discipline and rigor around value and post merger integration. But there'll be a lot more of that, I think than you've seen in the past. And that's really about us living up to our ambition of becoming a top three player. That was the I think in an interview with Bloomberg, I think the Crown Prints a couple of years ago said that, you know, you had a big ambition for the Saudi Tadawl Group and the Kingdom generally to be a top three player in financial market. So it'll take us while to get there, but we're well on that path and there's a very very exciting journey out of us.

And I'm curious who you see as your major competitors direct competitors, is you know, does that even you lose sleep over that? You know, there are a few names that come to mind when you go, Okay, they're doing something better. We need to upper a game.

And I'm curious who you see as your major competitors direct competitors, is you know, does that even you lose sleep over that? You know, there are a few names that come to mind when you go, Okay, they're doing something better. We need to upper a game.

Yes, a great question. So I don't lose any sleep over our core markets, franchise, the tail wins from the transformation and the financial services development, the underlying economy. I think we'll underpin that business quite nice for the years to come, and they'll be better years than others and bumps in the road, but fundamentally I think that's I feel very good about that business. Where we need to compete and where we need to fight for businesses in these other growth areas debt markets and commodities and indices and data and analytics and post trade, and there I think, in many cases, the boundaries of competition in modern business of blur, and it can often be a coopetition model where you may have a client even that is a core client in one business, a competitor in another, a partner in another, and you know, somewhere else in between and something else. And I think that's all about navigating the landscape. So if we look at our relationship with the Chinese exchanges, you know our interests are completely aligned. They want to create more business and more products and more investors for their markets, and the same is true for us. So I think we're very very well positioned in our core market, think we're very well positioned it regionally. But where we're going to have to compete more aggressively as we expand in the years ahead will be in the international environment. And I think that's where you're seemore m and a you'll seemore partnership, you'll see more collaboration, and particularly interestingly, I think is now many of the GCC nations, the Asian nations, are really becoming quite powerful on the global stage and are really maturing now into independent actors in terms of investment, thesis and flows and activity. Back to my point about READ, we can be a very compelling neutral pivot between East and West in that regard. So I don't think it's fanciful in years to come to consider READ and Sally to NOBAL Group as a competitor to the European Exchanges for capital raising, for example. I think that's quite possible. It's not something that people would have thought conceivable five ten years ago, but I think it very much is now and why not. You know, the world is changing, and I think we're not unrealistic and we're not over ambitious. I think we're quite cautious and conservative, but we think we can make a difference on the world stage, and you know, that's what we've said about doing. And I think Asia plays a very very significant part in that, and there are all those sort of demographic and economic arguments for that. But I think this sort of spirit of coming together and doing new things for new communities is really really powerful, and I'm very very bullish about the future.

Yes, a great question. So I don't lose any sleep over our core markets, franchise, the tail wins from the transformation and the financial services development, the underlying economy. I think we'll underpin that business quite nice for the years to come, and they'll be better years than others and bumps in the road, but fundamentally I think that's I feel very good about that business. Where we need to compete and where we need to fight for businesses in these other growth areas debt markets and commodities and indices and data and analytics and post trade, and there I think, in many cases, the boundaries of competition in modern business of blur, and it can often be a coopetition model where you may have a client even that is a core client in one business, a competitor in another, a partner in another, and you know, somewhere else in between and something else. And I think that's all about navigating the landscape. So if we look at our relationship with the Chinese exchanges, you know our interests are completely aligned. They want to create more business and more products and more investors for their markets, and the same is true for us. So I think we're very very well positioned in our core market, think we're very well positioned it regionally. But where we're going to have to compete more aggressively as we expand in the years ahead will be in the international environment. And I think that's where you're seemore m and a you'll seemore partnership, you'll see more collaboration, and particularly interestingly, I think is now many of the GCC nations, the Asian nations, are really becoming quite powerful on the global stage and are really maturing now into independent actors in terms of investment, thesis and flows and activity. Back to my point about READ, we can be a very compelling neutral pivot between East and West in that regard. So I don't think it's fanciful in years to come to consider READ and Sally to NOBAL Group as a competitor to the European Exchanges for capital raising, for example. I think that's quite possible. It's not something that people would have thought conceivable five ten years ago, but I think it very much is now and why not. You know, the world is changing, and I think we're not unrealistic and we're not over ambitious. I think we're quite cautious and conservative, but we think we can make a difference on the world stage, and you know, that's what we've said about doing. And I think Asia plays a very very significant part in that, and there are all those sort of demographic and economic arguments for that. But I think this sort of spirit of coming together and doing new things for new communities is really really powerful, and I'm very very bullish about the future.

You're about to embark on this trip to various parts of Asia. You've mentioned that at the very top of the podcast. What would you consider the most low hanging through the biggest wins. After you conclude that trip, what do you want to go home with?

You're about to embark on this trip to various parts of Asia. You've mentioned that at the very top of the podcast. What would you consider the most low hanging through the biggest wins. After you conclude that trip, what do you want to go home with?

I mean, probably a couple of things. I think the first thing is from the commodity perspective, we want to make sure that those major actors in that game understand our ration now for making the investment and the change to golf marke and tile exchange, and what our collective plans are and where we can help them solve real economy problems you risk transfer and all of those things, and to really listen to what their needs are, how can we help, what could we do to help them grow and generate returns. I think the second thing is really selling Saudi story, which is part of why I'm really grateful that you've given us the opportunity today, because we need to get the story out there on a global basis, that Saudi is transforming, that the results are real, that the opportunities are significant, because you know, in some respects that's a never ending story, right, You've always got to be selling. But I'm really looking forward to the opportunity in the mainland Hong Kong and India and Singapore, to really be meeting with those actors, whether they're in the commodity space, whether they're intermedrias, whether they're asset managers, to really be selling the story and finding where the intersection in sort of mutual ben it is. And we've done a few of these things. You know, we had the Capital Market Forum in partnership with the Hong Kong Exchange earlier this year. It was just a fantastic event, very very well attended at all levels of the industry, and we came away from that with some pleasantly surprising opportunities and ideas for all parts of our business. So there's a lot of interest and I'm really looking forward to that trip.

I mean, probably a couple of things. I think the first thing is from the commodity perspective, we want to make sure that those major actors in that game understand our ration now for making the investment and the change to golf marke and tile exchange, and what our collective plans are and where we can help them solve real economy problems you risk transfer and all of those things, and to really listen to what their needs are, how can we help, what could we do to help them grow and generate returns. I think the second thing is really selling Saudi story, which is part of why I'm really grateful that you've given us the opportunity today, because we need to get the story out there on a global basis, that Saudi is transforming, that the results are real, that the opportunities are significant, because you know, in some respects that's a never ending story, right, You've always got to be selling. But I'm really looking forward to the opportunity in the mainland Hong Kong and India and Singapore, to really be meeting with those actors, whether they're in the commodity space, whether they're intermedrias, whether they're asset managers, to really be selling the story and finding where the intersection in sort of mutual ben it is. And we've done a few of these things. You know, we had the Capital Market Forum in partnership with the Hong Kong Exchange earlier this year. It was just a fantastic event, very very well attended at all levels of the industry, and we came away from that with some pleasantly surprising opportunities and ideas for all parts of our business. So there's a lot of interest and I'm really looking forward to that trip.

Is Hong Kong going to be part of that trip? Because okay, because when you are in town and you do not give us a shout out and we don't see you here in the office, ly you know, Rebecca's going to be quite a town out of our London office. We guarantee we have better coffee here in our pantrmy. We have better snacks election And that's just the start. That's just the start. And I think Rebecca has some questions right now.

Is Hong Kong going to be part of that trip? Because okay, because when you are in town and you do not give us a shout out and we don't see you here in the office, ly you know, Rebecca's going to be quite a town out of our London office. We guarantee we have better coffee here in our pantrmy. We have better snacks election And that's just the start. That's just the start. And I think Rebecca has some questions right now.

So you've lived in many places Europe, America, China, Russia, India and now Saudi Arabia. What's the coolest thing about living in the Middle East?

So you've lived in many places Europe, America, China, Russia, India and now Saudi Arabia. What's the coolest thing about living in the Middle East?

What's the coolest thing? I mean, I'm British, so the weather's great, opening the curtains every day and seeing blue sky never gets old for me. My Saudi colleagues love it when it the odd occasion that it rains and it's cloudy, But for me, blue sky just makes all better about life. The other thing I would say is I've learned a lot about the sense of community in Saudi life that I think we've lost a little in certainly in the UK. And I enjoy that sense of community and belonging that you see every day in Saudi life. It's a very very warm and welcoming environment, very very hospitable I found. I found it really nice place to live, very low crime rate, if any great food, great people, lots to do. It's really fantastic. No surprise that we're seeing huge, huge numbers of high net worth individuals leaving Europe coming to the environments because the quality of living is fantastic. Unfortunately, I'm a big foodie. This is one of the reasons why I love Hong Kong and Singapore so much. The food in read you can't go ten meters down the street without some version of some coffee, food, pastry, shuama. So you need to get the exercise in as well. But it's a really, really great place to live, and I would encourage listeners to take the plunge, get on a flight and come and see what's going on, because it really is quite phenomenal.

What's the coolest thing? I mean, I'm British, so the weather's great, opening the curtains every day and seeing blue sky never gets old for me. My Saudi colleagues love it when it the odd occasion that it rains and it's cloudy, But for me, blue sky just makes all better about life. The other thing I would say is I've learned a lot about the sense of community in Saudi life that I think we've lost a little in certainly in the UK. And I enjoy that sense of community and belonging that you see every day in Saudi life. It's a very very warm and welcoming environment, very very hospitable I found. I found it really nice place to live, very low crime rate, if any great food, great people, lots to do. It's really fantastic. No surprise that we're seeing huge, huge numbers of high net worth individuals leaving Europe coming to the environments because the quality of living is fantastic. Unfortunately, I'm a big foodie. This is one of the reasons why I love Hong Kong and Singapore so much. The food in read you can't go ten meters down the street without some version of some coffee, food, pastry, shuama. So you need to get the exercise in as well. But it's a really, really great place to live, and I would encourage listeners to take the plunge, get on a flight and come and see what's going on, because it really is quite phenomenal.

Right, Okay, Well, for first time visitors, say I had a day, what do I need to hit? What do I need to see? And for people that come on a semi regular basis, our sort of familiar have done the usual, eating the usual food, gone to the usual places. As someone who lives there, what would you advise that second group of people, what do they need to do? Yeah?

Right, Okay, Well, for first time visitors, say I had a day, what do I need to hit? What do I need to see? And for people that come on a semi regular basis, our sort of familiar have done the usual, eating the usual food, gone to the usual places. As someone who lives there, what would you advise that second group of people, what do they need to do? Yeah?

I would do two things. I think The old City of Darya, which is the sort of whether the House of Sud originates from, is a World Heritage site and really beautiful, astonishingly well done environment. You can get a sense of Saudi history and very tastefully a number of world class restaurants and sort of the Hacker Sands and the mazes and this kind of stuff. So having an afternoon there at sunset in particular is a beautiful thing. The other thing that I would do is I would get a tour to the edge of the World, which is, you know, I suppose a version of the Grand Canyon that no one ever has heard about outside the Kingdom, and it is quite spectacular. You can get a tour out there, have dinner on the cliff edge and you look out over the sort of plateau below you which stretches a thousand miles or so. Again, you know, sunset experience is absolutely fantastic. So they're the things that you can do for a day. In read you possibly could do both in a day, but it would be a bit of a stretch, but particularly late afternoon. They are incredible places and anyone who follows me on LinkedIn, I always post when I take visitors there. They're quite remarkable.

I would do two things. I think The old City of Darya, which is the sort of whether the House of Sud originates from, is a World Heritage site and really beautiful, astonishingly well done environment. You can get a sense of Saudi history and very tastefully a number of world class restaurants and sort of the Hacker Sands and the mazes and this kind of stuff. So having an afternoon there at sunset in particular is a beautiful thing. The other thing that I would do is I would get a tour to the edge of the World, which is, you know, I suppose a version of the Grand Canyon that no one ever has heard about outside the Kingdom, and it is quite spectacular. You can get a tour out there, have dinner on the cliff edge and you look out over the sort of plateau below you which stretches a thousand miles or so. Again, you know, sunset experience is absolutely fantastic. So they're the things that you can do for a day. In read you possibly could do both in a day, but it would be a bit of a stretch, but particularly late afternoon. They are incredible places and anyone who follows me on LinkedIn, I always post when I take visitors there. They're quite remarkable.

David and I are both football fans. For those that may not know. Before David became a famous TV host, he was a famous footballer and played for the Philippines. So have you seen Ronaldo play football?

David and I are both football fans. For those that may not know. Before David became a famous TV host, he was a famous footballer and played for the Philippines. So have you seen Ronaldo play football?

I'm not gonna let her get away with that. Okay, since you brought it up. Rebecca for listeners as well, used to also play for the national team for the Hong Kong team. He thought that you'd sneak that in. Huh.

I'm not gonna let her get away with that. Okay, since you brought it up. Rebecca for listeners as well, used to also play for the national team for the Hong Kong team. He thought that you'd sneak that in. Huh.

David is a very great footballer, much better than I am. But Lee, have you seen Ronaldo play? Yeah?

David is a very great footballer, much better than I am. But Lee, have you seen Ronaldo play? Yeah?

Have you seen Ronaldo player?

Have you seen Ronaldo player?

Plea, well, I have not. I am an Alkhalal fan, which are Ronaldo's big rivals, and I'm glad to say I think pretty much on every occasion we've beaten Ronaldo's team. I have to be careful what I say because a lot of my colleagues are big fans of Ronaldo and his supporters. But I'm feeling pretty good season. And you know, I became a Tottenham Hotspur fan in nineteen seventy eight, so I've got a lot of disappointment of a you know, forty plus years of being a Tottenham fan. So I ask people, don't begrudge me my moment of glory as an Akhalal fan. And I saw them win the league and yeah, it was a novel experience for me to see what the trophy looks like as a Tottenham fan. So I'm pretty happy, hopefully we're going to see some more big signings in Saudi. Who knows needs? Oh, well, I would love to see Mo Salah. I think he's a fantastic striker. This one thing I would say, the stadiums and the general ambience and spirit of watching football in Sally is also a brilliant, brilliant experience. Al Helao is jam packed at every home game. Quality of football is good. It's a brilliant environment. Lots of families, lots of female spectators. It's a really really good environment. Another good reason to visit the Kingdom.

Plea, well, I have not. I am an Alkhalal fan, which are Ronaldo's big rivals, and I'm glad to say I think pretty much on every occasion we've beaten Ronaldo's team. I have to be careful what I say because a lot of my colleagues are big fans of Ronaldo and his supporters. But I'm feeling pretty good season. And you know, I became a Tottenham Hotspur fan in nineteen seventy eight, so I've got a lot of disappointment of a you know, forty plus years of being a Tottenham fan. So I ask people, don't begrudge me my moment of glory as an Akhalal fan. And I saw them win the league and yeah, it was a novel experience for me to see what the trophy looks like as a Tottenham fan. So I'm pretty happy, hopefully we're going to see some more big signings in Saudi. Who knows needs? Oh, well, I would love to see Mo Salah. I think he's a fantastic striker. This one thing I would say, the stadiums and the general ambience and spirit of watching football in Sally is also a brilliant, brilliant experience. Al Helao is jam packed at every home game. Quality of football is good. It's a brilliant environment. Lots of families, lots of female spectators. It's a really really good environment. Another good reason to visit the Kingdom.

Well, let me ask you where your heart is read Land. Club wise, you mentioned big name transfers. How would you feel if the Korean lad human Swan moved from Spurs to Al Hilal Would you be happy? Would you be?

Well, let me ask you where your heart is read Land. Club wise, you mentioned big name transfers. How would you feel if the Korean lad human Swan moved from Spurs to Al Hilal Would you be happy? Would you be?

Said?

Said?

I think I would be happy. Son has been an amazing player for Tottenham and you know we love him for sure. I'd love to see his pay in the Saudi League. I think he did brilliantly so and you know the challenge with being a Spurs fan is the hope that kills you. So you know, I now just take every day as it comes, and yeah, it's a beautiful day. It's a beautiful day in London. I'm not going to get depressed.

I think I would be happy. Son has been an amazing player for Tottenham and you know we love him for sure. I'd love to see his pay in the Saudi League. I think he did brilliantly so and you know the challenge with being a Spurs fan is the hope that kills you. So you know, I now just take every day as it comes, and yeah, it's a beautiful day. It's a beautiful day in London. I'm not going to get depressed.

Yeah, thank you so much, Lee for joining us from our London office. We were thrilled by this conversation, especially lovely football and tourism tips that you gave us, and we look forward to when you come to Hong Kong. We hoped to have a meal with you, or when maybe Dave Night get the opportunity to go to Saudi Arabia and maybe watch a football match.

Yeah, thank you so much, Lee for joining us from our London office. We were thrilled by this conversation, especially lovely football and tourism tips that you gave us, and we look forward to when you come to Hong Kong. We hoped to have a meal with you, or when maybe Dave Night get the opportunity to go to Saudi Arabia and maybe watch a football match.

You will be very very welcome, and we'd be sure to hit those tourists hotspots and I make sure you get the right food too.

You will be very very welcome, and we'd be sure to hit those tourists hotspots and I make sure you get the right food too.

Fantastic, and we'll make sure we're more we're there for more than a day. It looks like it's a ton of dude not worth squeezing into.

Fantastic, and we'll make sure we're more we're there for more than a day. It looks like it's a ton of dude not worth squeezing into.

That sunny read, but sunny react. It is a huge country with incredible incredible singer.

That sunny read, but sunny react. It is a huge country with incredible incredible singer.

Okay, so one of the assignments is we see in the office here is I'm gonna drag my boss down from the stairs and then you're gonna convince him to set me loose, give me a three week call a day and not charge me for it. Leave fantastic, Thank you, Thank you, so much for your time. To our listeners, thank you for listening to Tiger Money, your Bloomberg podcast about investing funds in financial markets in Asia and beyond. If you like what you here, please do not forget to subscribe, to like and to share. Until next time. You can find us inside the Bloomberg terminal or on LinkedIn, and we look forward to hearing from all of you. This podcast was produced by Clara Champ.

Okay, so one of the assignments is we see in the office here is I'm gonna drag my boss down from the stairs and then you're gonna convince him to set me loose, give me a three week call a day and not charge me for it. Leave fantastic, Thank you, Thank you, so much for your time. To our listeners, thank you for listening to Tiger Money, your Bloomberg podcast about investing funds in financial markets in Asia and beyond. If you like what you here, please do not forget to subscribe, to like and to share. Until next time. You can find us inside the Bloomberg terminal or on LinkedIn, and we look forward to hearing from all of you. This podcast was produced by Clara Champ.