Is modern life quietly replacing God with something else? In Episode 60 of Thinking Christian, Dr. James Spencer and Dr. Ashish Farma welcome back historian and theologian Dr. Kevin Flatt (Associate Dean of Humanities, Redeemer University) to explore one of the most urgent and underexamined ideas in Christian thought today: Sacred Social Order.

Every civilization in human history — from ancient China to Mesoamerican empires to early Christian Europe — understood that human society must align with something higher than itself. That intuition isn't gone. It's been replaced. By nationalism. By progressive identity movements. By civil religion. By the cult of the individual.

In this wide-ranging conversation, James, Ashish, and Kevin map how the West lost its sacred social order, what quietly took its place, and what the Church must 

recover — including a radical rethinking of time, space, the Sabbath, and Christian catechesis.

If you've ever felt like the world is moving too fast, or that something foundational has been hollowed out — this episode names what it is.

Key Takeaways:
What "Sacred Social Order" means — and why virtually every pre-modern civilization shared it
How secularization doesn't create a vacuum; it creates replacement religions (nationalism, identity politics, civil religion)
Why the American founding contains an unresolved ambiguity between Christian and Deist foundations — and what happened when that ambiguity tilted secular
How technology is catechizing us into seeing time and space as things to master, not gifts to steward
The striking biblical parallel between Sabbath laws and land laws — and what exile means for a church that ignores both
Why literal gardening might be one of the most counter-cultural spiritual practices a Christian can adopt today
What a Christian catechism for our moment needs to address — and what sacred values compete against it

Get early access and a bonus with aPatreon membership.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel

To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com.

📢 Stay Connected & Keep Growing!

If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to Thinking Christian so you never miss an insightful conversation!

Is modern life quietly replacing God with something else? In Episode 60 of Thinking Christian, Dr. James Spencer and Dr. Ashish Farma welcome back historian and theologian Dr. Kevin Flatt (Associate Dean of Humanities, Redeemer University) to explore one of the most urgent and underexamined ideas in Christian thought today: Sacred Social Order.
Every civilization in human history &mdash; from ancient China to Mesoamerican empires to early Christian Europe &mdash; understood that human society must align with something higher than itself. That intuition isn't gone. It's been replaced. By nationalism. By progressive identity movements. By civil religion. By the cult of the individual.
In this wide-ranging conversation, James, Ashish, and Kevin map how the West lost its sacred social order, what quietly took its place, and what the Church must&nbsp;
recover &mdash; including a radical rethinking of&nbsp;time, space, the Sabbath, and Christian catechesis.
If you've ever felt like the world is moving too fast, or that something foundational has been hollowed out &mdash; this episode names what it is.
Key Takeaways:
<ul>
<li aria-level="1">What "Sacred Social Order" means &mdash; and why virtually every pre-modern civilization shared it</li>
<li aria-level="1">How secularization doesn't create a vacuum; it creates replacement religions (nationalism, identity politics, civil religion)</li>
<li aria-level="1">Why the American founding contains an unresolved ambiguity between Christian and Deist foundations &mdash; and what happened when that ambiguity tilted secular</li>
<li aria-level="1">How technology is catechizing us into seeing time and space as things to master, not gifts to steward</li>
<li aria-level="1">The striking biblical parallel between Sabbath laws and land laws &mdash; and what exile means for a church that ignores both</li>
<li aria-level="1">Why literal gardening might be one of the most counter-cultural spiritual practices a Christian can adopt today</li>
<li aria-level="1">What a Christian catechism for our moment needs to address &mdash; and what sacred values compete against it</li>
</ul>
Get early access and a bonus with a <a href="https://www.patreon.com/c/thinkingchristian/membership">Patreon membership</a>.
Subscribe to our <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@Useful_toGod">YouTube channel</a>
To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on <a href="https://www.christianity.com/author/james-spencer/">Christianity.com</a>.
📢 Stay Connected &amp; Keep Growing!
If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to Thinking Christian so you never miss an insightful conversation!

Christians shouldn’t just think. They should think Christian. Join Dr. James Spencer and guests for calm, thoughtful, theological discussions about a variety of topics Christians face every day. The Thinking Christian Podcast will help you grow spiritually and learn theology as you seek to be faithful in a world that is becoming increasingly proficient at telling stories that deny Christ.

Find more from James at https://www.thinkingchristian.org/.

Christians shouldn&rsquo;t just think. They should think Christian. Join Dr. James Spencer and guests for calm, thoughtful, theological discussions about a variety of topics Christians face every day. The Thinking Christian Podcast will help you grow spiritually and learn theology as you seek to be faithful in a world that is becoming increasingly proficient at telling stories that deny Christ.
Find more from James at <a href="https://www.thinkingchristian.org/">https://www.thinkingchristian.org/</a>.

Christians shouldn’t just think. They should think Christian. Join Dr. James Spencer and guests for calm, thoughtful, theological discussions about a variety of topics Christians face every day. The Thinking Christian Podcast will help you grow spiritually and learn theology as you seek to be faithful in a world that is becoming increasingly proficient at telling stories that deny Christ.

Thinking Christian: Clear Theology for a Confusing World

Christians shouldn&rsquo;t just think. They should think Christian. Join Dr. James Spencer and guests for calm, thoughtful, theological discussions about a variety of topics Christians face every day. The Thinking Christian Podcast will help you grow spiritually and learn theology as you seek to be faithful in a world that is becoming increasingly proficient at telling stories that deny Christ.
Find more from James at <a href="https://www.thinkingchristian.org/">https://www.thinkingchristian.org/</a>.

What if every culture in history knew something about God that Western modernity made us forget?

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/5e27a451-e6e6-4c51-aa03-a7370003783c/clips/e5a855fc-94bd-40f5-a182-b47400e5929a/transcript

What if secularization isn't the decline of religion — but the replacement of one social order with another? In this episode, Dr. James Spencer and Dr. Ashish Varma sit down with Dr. Kevin Flatt, professor of history at Redeemer University and author of Secularization, Social Order, and World History, to unpack one of the most provocative frameworks in contemporary Christian thinking: Sacred Social Order.

Kevin introduces the idea that every human culture — until the modern West — has organized its life around something higher than itself. He argues that what we call "religion" is actually a uniquely Western, uniquely modern compartment, while Sacred Social Order is the operating system beneath all of culture. From there, the conversation moves through Christian nationalism, the liberal firmware of Western democracy, Philip Reif's cultural warfare thesis, and why your children's public school is not religiously neutral.

If you've ever sensed that something deeper than a culture war is unfolding — that the ground itself has shifted — this episode gives you the language to name it.

Key Takeaways:
What "Sacred Social Order" means, and why it's a more accurate lens than "religion" for understanding culture
Why secular order isn't neutral — it has its own values, telos, and demands on individuals
How the Christian nationalism debate connects to identical movements in India, Iran, China, and the Muslim world
Why Philip Reif's "third culture" thesis is partly right — and where Kevin respectfully pushes back
Why public education is never neutral, and what Christians should really be asking about schools
Why the gym or the yoga studio may be shaping your theology more than Hinduism is
The Labubu doll illustration: how misidentifying spiritual threats reveals our blind spots

Get early access and a bonus with aPatreon membership.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel

To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com.

📢 Stay Connected & Keep Growing!

If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to Thinking Christian, so you never miss an insightful conversation!

What if secularization isn't the decline of religion &mdash; but the replacement of one social order with another? In this episode, Dr. James Spencer and Dr. Ashish Varma sit down with Dr. Kevin Flatt, professor of history at Redeemer University and author of Secularization, Social Order, and World History, to unpack one of the most provocative frameworks in contemporary Christian thinking: Sacred Social Order.
Kevin introduces the idea that every human culture &mdash; until the modern West &mdash; has organized its life around something higher than itself. He argues that what we call "religion" is actually a uniquely Western, uniquely modern compartment, while Sacred Social Order is the operating system beneath all of culture. From there, the conversation moves through Christian nationalism, the liberal firmware of Western democracy, Philip Reif's cultural warfare thesis, and why your children's public school is not religiously neutral.
If you've ever sensed that something deeper than a culture war is unfolding &mdash; that the ground itself has shifted &mdash; this episode gives you the language to name it.
Key Takeaways:
<ul>
<li aria-level="1">What "Sacred Social Order" means, and why it's a more accurate lens than "religion" for understanding culture</li>
<li aria-level="1">Why secular order isn't neutral &mdash; it has its own values, telos, and demands on individuals</li>
<li aria-level="1">How the Christian nationalism debate connects to identical movements in India, Iran, China, and the Muslim world</li>
<li aria-level="1">Why Philip Reif's "third culture" thesis is partly right &mdash; and where Kevin respectfully pushes back</li>
<li aria-level="1">Why public education is never neutral, and what Christians should really be asking about schools</li>
<li aria-level="1">Why the gym or the yoga studio may be shaping your theology more than Hinduism is</li>
<li aria-level="1">The Labubu doll illustration: how misidentifying spiritual threats reveals our blind spots</li>
</ul>
Get early access and a bonus with a <a href="https://www.patreon.com/c/thinkingchristian/membership">Patreon membership</a>.
Subscribe to our <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@Useful_toGod">YouTube channel</a>
To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on <a href="https://www.christianity.com/author/james-spencer/">Christianity.com</a>.
📢 Stay Connected &amp; Keep Growing!
If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to Thinking Christian, so you never miss an insightful conversation!

Is "secular" really neutral? A historian reveals what the West forgot — and why it changes everything for Christians today.

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/5e27a451-e6e6-4c51-aa03-a7370003783c/clips/a46de044-4a7a-4205-b95e-b4710089779c/transcript

Is "Cultural Christianity" a bridge to the gospel — or a counterfeit that replaces it? In this episode, Dr. James Spencer (PhD, Trinity Evangelical Divinity School) and Dr. Ashish Varma respond to James Wood's widely-discussed First Things article, In Defense of Cultural Christianity. Together they unpack why calling a civilisation "Christian" when Christ is not its governing authority is not just imprecise — it's theologically catastrophic.

From the Christendom narrative and American civil religion to the habituation of virtue, abortion statistics, and a profound meditation on Pentecost in Acts 2, this episode models what serious Christian thinking looks like when it refuses to foreclose on the full authority of Jesus Christ too soon.

If you've wrestled with Christian nationalism, the "good, true, and beautiful" in culture, or what it means to vote as a follower of Jesus, this conversation is essential listening.

Key Takeaways:
Why "a culture influenced by Christianity" is an insufficient — and potentially dangerous — definition of "Christian culture"
The concept of "inappropriate foreclosure": closing off our understanding of the good too soon and using that partial view as if it were complete
How Robert Bellah's concept of American civil religion explains why Christian language gets co-opted by government without actually conforming people to Christ
Why the Book of Acts — specifically Pentecost and the Gentile inclusion — fundamentally disrupts any vision of Christianity as a singular cultural program
The Light Bright metaphor: God is the light source; culture is the peg pattern. Christians must point people behind the pegs to the light itself
Why policy-driven virtue formation (habituation) has measurable real-world limits — and what the abortion statistics during different administrations actually reveal
How Dr. Varma's personal experiences — from campus life on 9/11 to being randomly selected in airports — illustrate why Wood's "civilisational benefit" narrative forecloses on the experiences of many believers

Get early access and a bonus with aPatreon membership.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel

To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com.

📢 Stay Connected & Keep Growing!

If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to Thinking Christian, so you never miss an insightful conversation!

Is "Cultural Christianity" a bridge to the gospel &mdash; or a counterfeit that replaces it? In this episode, Dr. James Spencer (PhD, Trinity Evangelical Divinity School) and Dr. Ashish Varma respond to James Wood's widely-discussed First Things article, In Defense of Cultural Christianity. Together they unpack why calling a civilisation "Christian" when Christ is not its governing authority is not just imprecise &mdash; it's theologically catastrophic.
From the Christendom narrative and American civil religion to the habituation of virtue, abortion statistics, and a profound meditation on Pentecost in Acts 2, this episode models what serious Christian thinking looks like when it refuses to foreclose on the full authority of Jesus Christ too soon.
If you've wrestled with Christian nationalism, the "good, true, and beautiful" in culture, or what it means to vote as a follower of Jesus, this conversation is essential listening.
Key Takeaways:
<ul>
<li aria-level="1">Why "a culture influenced by Christianity" is an insufficient &mdash; and potentially dangerous &mdash; definition of "Christian culture"</li>
<li aria-level="1">The concept of "inappropriate foreclosure": closing off our understanding of the good too soon and using that partial view as if it were complete</li>
<li aria-level="1">How Robert Bellah's concept of American civil religion explains why Christian language gets co-opted by government without actually conforming people to Christ</li>
<li aria-level="1">Why the Book of Acts &mdash; specifically Pentecost and the Gentile inclusion &mdash; fundamentally disrupts any vision of Christianity as a singular cultural program</li>
<li aria-level="1">The Light Bright metaphor: God is the light source; culture is the peg pattern. Christians must point people behind the pegs to the light itself</li>
<li aria-level="1">Why policy-driven virtue formation (habituation) has measurable real-world limits &mdash; and what the abortion statistics during different administrations actually reveal</li>
<li aria-level="1">How Dr. Varma's personal experiences &mdash; from campus life on 9/11 to being randomly selected in airports &mdash; illustrate why Wood's "civilisational benefit" narrative forecloses on the experiences of many believers</li>
</ul>
Get early access and a bonus with a <a href="https://www.patreon.com/c/thinkingchristian/membership">Patreon membership</a>.
Subscribe to our <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@Useful_toGod">YouTube channel</a>
To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on <a href="https://www.christianity.com/author/james-spencer/">Christianity.com</a>.
📢 Stay Connected &amp; Keep Growing!
If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to Thinking Christian, so you never miss an insightful conversation!

Can a nation be "Christian" without Christ?

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/5e27a451-e6e6-4c51-aa03-a7370003783c/clips/f3b9f3ed-e23c-42e7-be25-b46500aa21e6/transcript

What does it mean to be human — really? In an age of AI, transhumanism, and relentless technological "progress," Christians are making confident claims about humanity without a solid theological foundation underneath them. In this episode, Dr. James Spencer and Dr. Ashish Varma sit down with Dr. Marc Cortez, Dean of the Litvin School of Divinity at Wheaton College, to explore one of the most urgent and underdeveloped doctrines in Christian thought: theological anthropology.

Dr. Cortez challenges the tendency to let the Image of God do all the heavy lifting — and makes a compelling case that the human body is not merely an instrument of the soul, but is fundamental to what it means to be made in God's 

image. Drawing from ancient idol language in Genesis 1, the resurrection, and modern cognitive science, this conversation reorients how Christians should think about embodiment, flourishing, technology, and even taking care of a tree.

If you've ever wondered whether your theology can hold up in a world reshaped by AI, this is the episode to start with.

KEY TAKEAWAYS
The Image of God (Imago Dei) uses ancient idol language — humans are the material means by which God manifests His divine presence in the world
We cannot think well about AI, transhumanism, sexuality, race, or disability without first building a robust theology of embodiment
The soul-body hierarchy in Christian history was never meant to devalue the body — but it almost always has
"Spiritual maturity" and "physical health" belong on the same list — our bifurcation of them reveals a modern, unbiblical blind spot
Before making confident claims about technology making us "less human," ask the prior question: what does it mean to be human in the first place?
Christian eschatology (resurrected, transformed bodies) gives us more theological complexity around human enhancement than most people realize
Dr. Cortez's shorthand for the Image of God: "We are the material means by which God is seeking to manifest His divine presence in a unique way in the world."

Get early access and a bonus with aPatreon membership.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel

To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com.

📢 Stay Connected & Keep Growing!

If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to Thinking Christian, so you never miss an insightful conversation!

What does it mean to be human &mdash; really? In an age of AI, transhumanism, and relentless technological "progress," Christians are making confident claims about humanity without a solid theological foundation underneath them. In this episode, Dr. James Spencer and Dr. Ashish Varma sit down with Dr. Marc Cortez, Dean of the Litvin School of Divinity at Wheaton College, to explore one of the most urgent and underdeveloped doctrines in Christian thought: theological anthropology.
Dr. Cortez challenges the tendency to let the Image of God do all the heavy lifting &mdash; and makes a compelling case that the human body is not merely an instrument of the soul, but is fundamental to what it means to be made in God's&nbsp;
image. Drawing from ancient idol language in Genesis 1, the resurrection, and modern cognitive science, this conversation reorients how Christians should think about embodiment, flourishing, technology, and even taking care of a tree.
If you've ever wondered whether your theology can hold up in a world reshaped by AI, this is the episode to start with.
KEY TAKEAWAYS
<ul>
<li aria-level="1">The Image of God (Imago Dei) uses ancient idol language &mdash; humans are the material means by which God manifests His divine presence in the world</li>
<li aria-level="1">We cannot think well about AI, transhumanism, sexuality, race, or disability without first building a robust theology of embodiment</li>
<li aria-level="1">The soul-body hierarchy in Christian history was never meant to devalue the body &mdash; but it almost always has</li>
<li aria-level="1">"Spiritual maturity" and "physical health" belong on the same list &mdash; our bifurcation of them reveals a modern, unbiblical blind spot</li>
<li aria-level="1">Before making confident claims about technology making us "less human," ask the prior question: what does it mean to be human in the first place?</li>
<li aria-level="1">Christian eschatology (resurrected, transformed bodies) gives us more theological complexity around human enhancement than most people realize</li>
<li aria-level="1">Dr. Cortez's shorthand for the Image of God: "We are the material means by which God is seeking to manifest His divine presence in a unique way in the world."</li>
</ul>
Get early access and a bonus with a <a href="https://www.patreon.com/c/thinkingchristian/membership">Patreon membership</a>.
Subscribe to our <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@Useful_toGod">YouTube channel</a>
To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on <a href="https://www.christianity.com/author/james-spencer/">Christianity.com</a>.
📢 Stay Connected &amp; Keep Growing!
If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to Thinking Christian, so you never miss an insightful conversation!

What does it actually mean to be human?

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/5e27a451-e6e6-4c51-aa03-a7370003783c/clips/2b2a0866-7d2a-49b3-8420-b465009fc5fa/transcript

What if every culture in history knew something about God that Western modernity made us forget?

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