What if a major driver of today’s mental health crisis isn’t simply “more disorders,” but more people who feel unseen, unheard, and alone? In this episode of the Thinking Christian Podcast, Dr. James Spencer talks with Dr. Jackie E. Perry—Clinical Supervisor, Professor of Counselor Education at Columbia International University, and President of the Soulwell Center—about loneliness, the loss of emotional connection, and why the church must recover the skill of attuned listening.

Jackie explains how the Soulwell Center began: while teaching counselor “helping skills,” she realized many of those relational tools could be taught in a lay-friendly way to parents, pastors, and everyday Christians. The result is a training approach that combines practical listening techniques with the neuroscience of relationships—equipping people to hold a safe space where others can feel truly “seen and known.”

James and Jackie discuss a trend Jackie has observed across decades in the mental health field: in the last 10–15 years, more clients have been coming not primarily with severe pathology, but because they don’t have anyone who listens. Therapy becomes a paid place of connection—something that should not be rare in Christian community.

The conversation explores how technology can create distance (including the rise of AI-mediated communication), why many people lack a “mental model” for deep listening, and how shame and perceived “threat” can make relational closeness feel unsafe. Jackie introduces the concept of “eyes of delight”—the nonverbal experience of being attended to with warmth—and explains why nonverbal presence often does more than words.

They also connect listening to the broader formation of disciples: without embodied, relational connection, people drift into isolation, cope through substitutes, and struggle to develop distress tolerance—the ability to endure discomfort and stay engaged through conflict, hardship, and the messiness of real relationships. The result is not only loneliness, but fragility and retreat from vocation, mission, and spiritual maturity.

In the end, Jackie offers a simple but demanding vision: the church must become a community that can listen across difference and reflect the “eyes of Christ.” That kind of faithful presence is not optional—it is essential for discipleship, mental health, and a credible Christian witness today.

Topics include:

• Soulwell Center’s mission and the “listening course”

• Loneliness, mental health, and why therapy becomes a substitute for community

• “Eyes of delight” and the neuroscience of connection

• Shame, vulnerability, and why being known can feel threatening

• Nonverbal communication and why presence matters

• Distress tolerance, overprotection, and the formation of resilient adults

• What the church must recover to make faithful disciples

You can purchase Heart Cries of Every Teen here. 

For more information onf the Soulwell Center visit www.thesoulwellcenter.com.

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To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com.

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