In this episode, James and Nate sit down with the two founding members of Unspoken. Chad Mattson and Jon Lowry talk about their history together, the challenges of Christian music, and the privilege of being involved in ministry. Chad also shares his testimony. 

You can find out more about Unspoken at https://www.unspokenmusic.com/.

We would also encourage you to check out the ministry Chad mentions in the episode at https://soldiersforfaith.com/.

In this episode, James and Nate sit down with the two founding members of Unspoken. Chad Mattson and Jon Lowry talk about their history together, the challenges of Christian music, and the privilege of being involved in ministry. Chad also shares his testimony. 
You can find out more about Unspoken at <a href="https://www.unspokenmusic.com/">https://www.unspokenmusic.com/</a>.
We would also encourage you to check out the ministry Chad mentions in the episode at <a href="https://soldiersforfaith.com/">https://soldiersforfaith.com/</a>.

Christians shouldn’t just think. They should think Christian. Join Dr. James Spencer and guests for calm, thoughtful, theological discussions about a variety of topics Christians face every day. The Thinking Christian Podcast will help you grow spiritually and learn theology as you seek to be faithful in a world that is becoming increasingly proficient at telling stories that deny Christ.

Find more from James at https://usefultogod.com/.

Christians shouldn’t just think. They should think Christian. Join Dr. James Spencer and guests for calm, thoughtful, theological discussions about a variety of topics Christians face every day. The Thinking Christian Podcast will help you grow spiritually and learn theology as you seek to be faithful in a world that is becoming increasingly proficient at telling stories that deny Christ.
Find more from James at <a href="https://usefultogod.com/">https://usefultogod.com/</a>.

Christians shouldn’t just think. They should think Christian. Join Dr. James Spencer and guests for calm, thoughtful, theological discussions about a variety of topics Christians face every day. The Thinking Christian Podcast will help you grow spiritually and learn theology as you seek to be faithful in a world that is becoming increasingly proficient at telling stories that deny Christ.

Thinking Christian: Clear Theology for a Confusing World

Christians shouldn’t just think. They should think Christian. Join Dr. James Spencer and guests for calm, thoughtful, theological discussions about a variety of topics Christians face every day. The Thinking Christian Podcast will help you grow spiritually and learn theology as you seek to be faithful in a world that is becoming increasingly proficient at telling stories that deny Christ.
Find more from James at <a href="https://usefultogod.com/">https://usefultogod.com/.</a>

Speaking with Unspoken: Talking Ministry and Music with Chad Mattson and Jon Lowry

What does it look like for Christians to pursue multicultural unity without flattening real differences—or turning ethnicity into an ultimate identity? In this episode of the Thinking Christian Podcast, Dr. James Spencer is joined by recurring guest Ben Mathew (Professor of Counselor Education at Columbia International University) to discuss multiculturalism in the church through both a clinical lens and a biblical theology lens.

Ben begins with his own story: growing up in Canada as part of an Indian immigrant family, encountering racial hostility, and watching his parents respond with persistent faith and love. That lived experience shaped his lifelong interest in identity, race, and how Christians should engage “the other.”

From there, Ben and James explore how ethnicity relates to a person’s overall identity—especially for Christians who want a Christian-first posture without denying the embodied realities of culture and race. Ben describes two common errors: colorblindness (ignoring ethnicity as part of a person’s story) and “color essentialism” (making ethnicity the dominant identity). The challenge is not an either/or choice, but learning to live in the tension where unity in Christ is central while diversity remains real and meaningful.

The conversation also turns to Scripture: Ephesians’ vision of Jew and Gentile becoming “one new man,” Acts as a casebook for early church multicultural tensions, and Revelation’s picture of worship around the throne from every tribe, tongue, and nation. They discuss why this unity isn’t a side issue—Paul frames it as part of the gospel’s public confrontation of powers and principalities.

James and Ben also touch on contemporary frameworks such as Critical Race Theory, noting the difference between observations that may describe real dynamics and prescriptions that can become spiritually or socially destructive. Throughout, they return to a distinctly Christian claim: the church is called to embody a unity the world cannot produce, and that unity becomes a living witness to Christ’s authority.

Finally, Ben offers a practical starting point: cultivate curiosity about other people’s stories. That posture of “cultural humility” can soften tribal instincts, expand empathy, and help churches pursue unity for the glory of God.

Topics include:


Ethnicity and Christian identity


Colorblindness vs. “color essentialism”


Biblical theology of multicultural worship (Acts, Ephesians, Revelation)


Lament, anger, and healing in the face of racial evil


Systemic sin and how Christians should think about systems


CRT: insights, limits, and why the gospel must remain central


Concrete first steps for churches toward multicultural faithfulness

Subscribe to our YouTube channel

🔗 Download a free resource "Making Everyday Decisions So That God Gets the Glory" from Useful to God:www.usefultogod.com

To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com.

📢 Stay Connected & Keep Growing!

If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to Thinking Christian so you never miss an insightful conversation!

This episode is sponsored by Trinity Debt Management. “Whether we’re helping people pay off their unsecured debt or offering assistance to those behind in their mortgage payments, Trinity has the knowledge and resources to make a difference. Our intention is to help people become debt-free, and most importantly, remain debt-free for keeps!" If your debt has you down, we should talk. Call us at 1-800-793-8548 | https://trinitycredit.org/ 

What does it look like for Christians to pursue multicultural unity without flattening real differences&mdash;or turning ethnicity into an ultimate identity? In this episode of the Thinking Christian Podcast, Dr. James Spencer is joined by recurring guest Ben Mathew (Professor of Counselor Education at Columbia International University) to discuss multiculturalism in the church through both a clinical lens and a biblical theology lens.
Ben begins with his own story: growing up in Canada as part of an Indian immigrant family, encountering racial hostility, and watching his parents respond with persistent faith and love. That lived experience shaped his lifelong interest in identity, race, and how Christians should engage &ldquo;the other.&rdquo;
From there, Ben and James explore how ethnicity relates to a person&rsquo;s overall identity&mdash;especially for Christians who want a Christian-first posture without denying the embodied realities of culture and race. Ben describes two common errors: colorblindness (ignoring ethnicity as part of a person&rsquo;s story) and &ldquo;color essentialism&rdquo; (making ethnicity the dominant identity). The challenge is not an either/or choice, but learning to live in the tension where unity in Christ is central while diversity remains real and meaningful.
The conversation also turns to Scripture: Ephesians&rsquo; vision of Jew and Gentile becoming &ldquo;one new man,&rdquo; Acts as a casebook for early church multicultural tensions, and Revelation&rsquo;s picture of worship around the throne from every tribe, tongue, and nation. They discuss why this unity isn&rsquo;t a side issue&mdash;Paul frames it as part of the gospel&rsquo;s public confrontation of powers and principalities.
James and Ben also touch on contemporary frameworks such as Critical Race Theory, noting the difference between observations that may describe real dynamics and prescriptions that can become spiritually or socially destructive. Throughout, they return to a distinctly Christian claim: the church is called to embody a unity the world cannot produce, and that unity becomes a living witness to Christ&rsquo;s authority.
Finally, Ben offers a practical starting point: cultivate curiosity about other people&rsquo;s stories. That posture of &ldquo;cultural humility&rdquo; can soften tribal instincts, expand empathy, and help churches pursue unity for the glory of God.
Topics include:
<ul data-start="3082" data-end="3498">
<li data-start="3082" data-end="3118">
Ethnicity and Christian identity
</li>
<li data-start="3119" data-end="3162">
Colorblindness vs. &ldquo;color essentialism&rdquo;
</li>
<li data-start="3163" data-end="3239">
Biblical theology of multicultural worship (Acts, Ephesians, Revelation)
</li>
<li data-start="3240" data-end="3297">
Lament, anger, and healing in the face of racial evil
</li>
<li data-start="3298" data-end="3360">
Systemic sin and how Christians should think about systems
</li>
<li data-start="3361" data-end="3426">
CRT: insights, limits, and why the gospel must remain central
</li>
<li data-start="3427" data-end="3498">
Concrete first steps for churches toward multicultural faithfulness
</li>
</ul>
Subscribe to our <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@Useful_toGod">YouTube channel</a>
🔗 Download a free resource "Making Everyday Decisions So That God Gets the Glory" from Useful to God: <a href="https://www.usefultogod.com">www.usefultogod.com</a>
To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on <a href="https://www.christianity.com/author/james-spencer/">Christianity.com</a>.
📢 Stay Connected &amp; Keep Growing!
If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to Thinking Christian so you never miss an insightful conversation!
This episode is sponsored by Trinity Debt Management.&nbsp;&ldquo;Whether we&rsquo;re helping people pay off their unsecured debt or offering assistance to those behind in their mortgage payments, Trinity has the knowledge and resources to make a difference. Our intention is to help people become debt-free, and most importantly, remain debt-free for keeps!" If your debt has you down, we should talk.&nbsp;Call us at&nbsp;1-800-793-8548&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href="https://trinitycredit.org/">https://trinitycredit.org/</a>&nbsp;

Multiculturalism in the Church: A Biblical Theology of Unity Without Uniformity (Ben Mathew)

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/5e27a451-e6e6-4c51-aa03-a7370003783c/clips/e3a027b6-322a-4d4b-84d2-b3d20033c432/transcript

Pastors are carrying more emotional and spiritual weight than most congregations realize—and many churches still treat counseling and discipleship as if they’re separate worlds. In this episode of the Thinking Christian Podcast, Dr. James Spencer is joined by Dr. Steve Stuhlreyer (Professor of Counselor Education at Columbia International University, former lead pastor) to talk about what it looks like when the church becomes a place of healing, relational care, and wise referral.

Steve explains why the line between discipleship and counseling is often a false dichotomy. While some cases require trained clinical care (and sometimes medical collaboration), most people seeking help are what Steve calls the “worried well”—believers navigating grief, stress, anxiety, loneliness, transitions, and everyday burdens that can’t be carried alone. In those cases, what’s often missing isn’t a diagnosis—it’s relationship: a trusted person who can listen, walk with them, and help them grow in Christ.

James and Steve also discuss the unique pressures pastors face: living in a fishbowl, constant availability, criticism, and the real loneliness that comes with leadership. Steve shares why many pastors won’t disclose struggles to denominational systems or even church members, and how chronic pressure can contribute to burnout, depression, anxiety, and in some situations, even trauma-like symptoms. The result is not just personal pain—it can limit a pastor’s ability to lead with spiritual health and long-term resilience.

Finally, the conversation turns practical: What can churches do? Steve offers concrete advice for building a healthier ecosystem where lay care, discipleship, and counseling support work together—freeing trained counselors to focus on complex cases while the church becomes a genuine “hospital” for everyday burdens. They also touch on men’s ministry and why Christian manhood must be formed by Christlike strength, humility, and grace, not cultural machismo.

Topics include:


The overlap between counseling and discipleship


Who truly needs clinical counseling—and who needs relational support


Why pastors are often lonely (and afraid to be honest)


How trauma and burnout can develop in ministry


Practical ways elders and church leaders can care for pastors


Men’s discipleship that builds strength without bravado

Subscribe to our YouTube channel

🔗 Download a free resource "Making Everyday Decisions So That God Gets the Glory" from Useful to God:www.usefultogod.com

To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com.

📢 Stay Connected & Keep Growing!

If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to Thinking Christian so you never miss an insightful conversation!

This episode is sponsored by Trinity Debt Management. “Whether we’re helping people pay off their unsecured debt or offering assistance to those behind in their mortgage payments, Trinity has the knowledge and resources to make a difference. Our intention is to help people become debt-free, and most importantly, remain debt-free for keeps!" If your debt has you down, we should talk. Call us at 1-800-793-8548 | https://trinitycredit.org/ 

Pastors are carrying more emotional and spiritual weight than most congregations realize&mdash;and many churches still treat counseling and discipleship as if they&rsquo;re separate worlds. In this episode of the Thinking Christian Podcast, Dr. James Spencer is joined by Dr. Steve Stuhlreyer (Professor of Counselor Education at Columbia International University, former lead pastor) to talk about what it looks like when the church becomes a place of healing, relational care, and wise referral.
Steve explains why the line between discipleship and counseling is often a false dichotomy. While some cases require trained clinical care (and sometimes medical collaboration), most people seeking help are what Steve calls the &ldquo;worried well&rdquo;&mdash;believers navigating grief, stress, anxiety, loneliness, transitions, and everyday burdens that can&rsquo;t be carried alone. In those cases, what&rsquo;s often missing isn&rsquo;t a diagnosis&mdash;it&rsquo;s relationship: a trusted person who can listen, walk with them, and help them grow in Christ.
James and Steve also discuss the unique pressures pastors face: living in a fishbowl, constant availability, criticism, and the real loneliness that comes with leadership. Steve shares why many pastors won&rsquo;t disclose struggles to denominational systems or even church members, and how chronic pressure can contribute to burnout, depression, anxiety, and in some situations, even trauma-like symptoms. The result is not just personal pain&mdash;it can limit a pastor&rsquo;s ability to lead with spiritual health and long-term resilience.
Finally, the conversation turns practical: What can churches do? Steve offers concrete advice for building a healthier ecosystem where lay care, discipleship, and counseling support work together&mdash;freeing trained counselors to focus on complex cases while the church becomes a genuine &ldquo;hospital&rdquo; for everyday burdens. They also touch on men&rsquo;s ministry and why Christian manhood must be formed by Christlike strength, humility, and grace, not cultural machismo.
Topics include:
<ul data-start="2797" data-end="3155">
<li data-start="2797" data-end="2848">
The overlap between counseling and discipleship
</li>
<li data-start="2849" data-end="2921">
Who truly needs clinical counseling&mdash;and who needs relational support
</li>
<li data-start="2922" data-end="2980">
Why pastors are often lonely (and afraid to be honest)
</li>
<li data-start="2981" data-end="3031">
How trauma and burnout can develop in ministry
</li>
<li data-start="3032" data-end="3097">
Practical ways elders and church leaders can care for pastors
</li>
<li data-start="3098" data-end="3155">
Men&rsquo;s discipleship that builds strength without bravado
</li>
</ul>
Subscribe to our <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@Useful_toGod">YouTube channel</a>
🔗 Download a free resource "Making Everyday Decisions So That God Gets the Glory" from Useful to God: <a href="https://www.usefultogod.com">www.usefultogod.com</a>
To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on <a href="https://www.christianity.com/author/james-spencer/">Christianity.com</a>.
📢 Stay Connected &amp; Keep Growing!
If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to Thinking Christian so you never miss an insightful conversation!
This episode is sponsored by Trinity Debt Management.&nbsp;&ldquo;Whether we&rsquo;re helping people pay off their unsecured debt or offering assistance to those behind in their mortgage payments, Trinity has the knowledge and resources to make a difference. Our intention is to help people become debt-free, and most importantly, remain debt-free for keeps!" If your debt has you down, we should talk.&nbsp;Call us at&nbsp;1-800-793-8548&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href="https://trinitycredit.org/">https://trinitycredit.org/</a>&nbsp;

Counseling and the Church: How Pastors and Congregations Should Work Together (Dr. Steve Stuhlreyer)

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/5e27a451-e6e6-4c51-aa03-a7370003783c/clips/f24d308c-d9ec-48fc-8904-b3d20033b649/transcript

Why do so many Christians feel like they’re “bad at prayer”? In this episode of the Thinking Christian Podcast, Dr. James Spencer sits down with Addison Bevere (President of Messenger International) to talk about prayer as presence, not performance—and why shame and distraction keep God’s people from the intimacy they were made for.

Addison shares the origin story behind RediscoverPrayer.com and a pivotal conversation with his dad that reshaped his view of prayer: “I pray for about 15 minutes… and then I just listen.” That moment helped expose a common misconception—many people assume prayer is a spiritual performance, a transaction, or a checklist. But Scripture invites something deeper: constant prayer as constant receptivity, lived from a place of rest and God-consciousness rather than self-consciousness.

James and Addison discuss how modern life trains our attention toward anxiety and control, and how rebuilding a prayerful “cadence” can reorient our entire day. Addison explains why attention is a real sacrifice, why the first hour of the morning can have a disproportionate impact, and how prayer energizes every other spiritual discipline instead of merely being one more item on the list.

They also explore:


Why “pray without ceasing” isn’t a burden, but an invitation to ongoing intimacy


The difference between formulas and frameworks for prayer


How the enemy uses shame to turn prayer into a place of disqualification


How prayer changes us—even when we’re messy, distracted, or unsure what to say


Why the church needs to recover the sacredness of God’s presence in community to make disciples today

Addison’s newest resource, Words with God Prayer Journal, is designed as a practical framework to help people reflect, recenter, rest, receive, ask, and respond—building a life of prayer that carries into every moment.

Resources mentioned:


Purchase Words with God Prayer Journal here.


RediscoverPrayer.com


MessengerX.com (Messenger International’s discipleship app)

Subscribe to our YouTube channel

🔗 Download a free resource "Making Everyday Decisions So That God Gets the Glory" from Useful to God:www.usefultogod.com

To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com.

📢 Stay Connected & Keep Growing!

If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to Thinking Christian so you never miss an insightful conversation!

This episode is sponsored by Trinity Debt Management. “Whether we’re helping people pay off their unsecured debt or offering assistance to those behind in their mortgage payments, Trinity has the knowledge and resources to make a difference. Our intention is to help people become debt-free, and most importantly, remain debt-free for keeps!" If your debt has you down, we should talk. Call us at 1-800-793-8548 | https://trinitycredit.org/ 

Why do so many Christians feel like they&rsquo;re &ldquo;bad at prayer&rdquo;? In this episode of the Thinking Christian Podcast, Dr. James Spencer sits down with Addison Bevere (President of Messenger International) to talk about prayer as presence, not performance&mdash;and why shame and distraction keep God&rsquo;s people from the intimacy they were made for.
Addison shares the origin story behind RediscoverPrayer.com and a pivotal conversation with his dad that reshaped his view of prayer: &ldquo;I pray for about 15 minutes&hellip; and then I just listen.&rdquo; That moment helped expose a common misconception&mdash;many people assume prayer is a spiritual performance, a transaction, or a checklist. But Scripture invites something deeper: constant prayer as constant receptivity, lived from a place of rest and God-consciousness rather than self-consciousness.
James and Addison discuss how modern life trains our attention toward anxiety and control, and how rebuilding a prayerful &ldquo;cadence&rdquo; can reorient our entire day. Addison explains why attention is a real sacrifice, why the first hour of the morning can have a disproportionate impact, and how prayer energizes every other spiritual discipline instead of merely being one more item on the list.
They also explore:
<ul data-start="1904" data-end="2328">
<li data-start="1904" data-end="1990">
Why &ldquo;pray without ceasing&rdquo; isn&rsquo;t a burden, but an invitation to ongoing intimacy
</li>
<li data-start="1991" data-end="2060">
The difference between formulas and frameworks for prayer
</li>
<li data-start="2061" data-end="2137">
How the enemy uses shame to turn prayer into a place of disqualification
</li>
<li data-start="2138" data-end="2220">
How prayer changes us&mdash;even when we&rsquo;re messy, distracted, or unsure what to say
</li>
<li data-start="2221" data-end="2328">
Why the church needs to recover the sacredness of God&rsquo;s presence in community to make disciples today
</li>
</ul>
Addison&rsquo;s newest resource, Words with God Prayer Journal, is designed as a practical framework to help people reflect, recenter, rest, receive, ask, and respond&mdash;building a life of prayer that carries into every moment.
Resources mentioned:
<ul data-start="2579" data-end="2711">
<li data-start="2579" data-end="2616">
Purchase Words with God Prayer Journal <a href="Words%20with%20God%20Prayer%20Journal">here</a>.
</li>
<li data-start="2617" data-end="2645">
RediscoverPrayer.com
</li>
<li data-start="2646" data-end="2711">
MessengerX.com (Messenger International&rsquo;s discipleship app)
</li>
</ul>
Subscribe to our <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@Useful_toGod">YouTube channel</a>
🔗 Download a free resource "Making Everyday Decisions So That God Gets the Glory" from Useful to God: <a href="https://www.usefultogod.com">www.usefultogod.com</a>
To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on <a href="https://www.christianity.com/author/james-spencer/">Christianity.com</a>.
📢 Stay Connected &amp; Keep Growing!
If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to Thinking Christian so you never miss an insightful conversation!
This episode is sponsored by Trinity Debt Management.&nbsp;&ldquo;Whether we&rsquo;re helping people pay off their unsecured debt or offering assistance to those behind in their mortgage payments, Trinity has the knowledge and resources to make a difference. Our intention is to help people become debt-free, and most importantly, remain debt-free for keeps!" If your debt has you down, we should talk.&nbsp;Call us at&nbsp;1-800-793-8548&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href="https://trinitycredit.org/">https://trinitycredit.org/</a>&nbsp;

Rediscover Prayer: From Performance to Presence (Addison Bevere)

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/5e27a451-e6e6-4c51-aa03-a7370003783c/clips/18786e54-def1-4f39-85db-b3d2002903fb/transcript

Speaking with Unspoken: Talking Ministry and Music with Chad Mattson and Jon Lowry

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Thinking Christian: Clear Theology for a Confusing World

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