In this episode of Thinking Christian, Dr. James Spencer is joined by Rev. Dr. Andrew Hale, pastor, author, and host of CBF Conversations and Clergy Confessions, to discuss his new book Mending the Fracturing Church: How to Navigate Conflict and Build Trust for Thriving Communities.

Drawing on decades of ministry experience—and insights from cognitive psychology, social psychology, trauma studies, and theology—Andrew argues that church conflict today cannot be understood merely as a theological or political problem. Instead, it reflects deeper issues of discipleship, anxiety, embodied trauma, media fragmentation, and generational formation.

James and Andrew explore why church conflict feels uniquely intense in this moment, even though the church has alwaysbeen marked by disagreement. They examine how political polarization, algorithm-driven media, generational divides, and unaddressed physiological stress shape congregational life—often overwhelming the formative power of Scripture and worship.

A central claim of the conversation is that discipleship has failed to keep pace with formation pressures. Congregants spend far more time immersed in outrage-driven media ecosystems than in practices that shape Christlike humility, patience, and love of neighbor. The result is a church increasingly reactive, defensive, and fragile.

The episode also wrestles with difficult but necessary questions:


Is church fracture rooted less in ideology and more in unresolved trauma?


How do time, patience, and humility function in genuine spiritual formation?


What happens when faithfulness is reduced to being “right” rather than honoring one another?


How do different generations carry distinct “prototypes” of Jesus shaped by their historical circumstances?

Rather than offering quick fixes, Andrew calls churches back to slow, relational work: intergenerational presence, shared meals, play, embodied practices, and renewed attention to the whole person—mind, body, and soul. Drawing from Acts 2, the Gospels, and family systems theory, he argues that healing church communities begins not with better programming, but with learning to be with one another again.

This episode is a candid, hopeful, and theologically grounded conversation for anyone who loves the church and wants to see it become healthier, more faithful, and more resilient in a fractured age.

Thinking Christian is hosted by Dr. James Spencer, president of the D. L. Moody Center and author of Digital Discernment (InterVarsity Press). Each conversation reads the Bible as the final authority for life and faith, questioning the assumptions of our culture, even our Christian culture, so that we don't settle for a narrower vision than God's word offers.

Unsettling convention. Cultivating conviction.
Episodes, articles, and questions: thinkingchristian.org
About James Spencer: thinkingchristian.org/james
The Thinking Christian Framework: thinkingchristian.org/framework
Order Digital Discernment: amazon.com

Subscribe: YouTube · Apple Podcasts · Spotify

Advertising and partnership inquiries: info@thinkingchristian.org

This episode is sponsored by Trinity Debt Management. “Whether we’re helping people pay off their unsecured debt or offering assistance to those behind in their mortgage payments, Trinity has the knowledge and resources to make a difference. Our intention is to help people become debt-free, and most importantly, remain debt-free for keeps!" If your debt has you down, we should talk. Call us at 1-800-793-8548 | https://trinitycredit.org/ 

In this episode of Thinking Christian, Dr. James Spencer is joined by Rev. Dr. Andrew Hale, pastor, author, and host of CBF Conversations and Clergy Confessions, to discuss his new book <a href="https://amzn.to/4tlEqrD">Mending the Fracturing Church: How to Navigate Conflict and Build Trust for Thriving Communities</a>.
Drawing on decades of ministry experience&mdash;and insights from cognitive psychology, social psychology, trauma studies, and theology&mdash;Andrew argues that church conflict today cannot be understood merely as a theological or political problem. Instead, it reflects deeper issues of discipleship, anxiety, embodied trauma, media fragmentation, and generational formation.
James and Andrew explore why church conflict feels uniquely intense in this moment, even though the church has alwaysbeen marked by disagreement. They examine how political polarization, algorithm-driven media, generational divides, and unaddressed physiological stress shape congregational life&mdash;often overwhelming the formative power of Scripture and worship.
A central claim of the conversation is that discipleship has failed to keep pace with formation pressures. Congregants spend far more time immersed in outrage-driven media ecosystems than in practices that shape Christlike humility, patience, and love of neighbor. The result is a church increasingly reactive, defensive, and fragile.
The episode also wrestles with difficult but necessary questions:
<ul data-start="2314" data-end="2673">
<li data-start="2314" data-end="2389">
Is church fracture rooted less in ideology and more in unresolved trauma?
</li>
<li data-start="2390" data-end="2468">
How do time, patience, and humility function in genuine spiritual formation?
</li>
<li data-start="2469" data-end="2563">
What happens when faithfulness is reduced to being &ldquo;right&rdquo; rather than honoring one another?
</li>
<li data-start="2564" data-end="2673">
How do different generations carry distinct &ldquo;prototypes&rdquo; of Jesus shaped by their historical circumstances?
</li>
</ul>
Rather than offering quick fixes, Andrew calls churches back to slow, relational work: intergenerational presence, shared meals, play, embodied practices, and renewed attention to the whole person&mdash;mind, body, and soul. Drawing from Acts 2, the Gospels, and family systems theory, he argues that healing church communities begins not with better programming, but with learning to be with one another again.
This episode is a candid, hopeful, and theologically grounded conversation for anyone who loves the church and wants to see it become healthier, more faithful, and more resilient in a fractured age.
Thinking Christian is hosted by Dr. James Spencer, president of the D. L. Moody Center and author of Digital Discernment (InterVarsity Press). Each conversation reads the Bible as the final authority for life and faith, questioning the assumptions of our culture, even our Christian culture, so that we don't settle for a narrower vision than God's word offers.
Unsettling convention. Cultivating conviction. Episodes, articles, and questions: <a href="https://www.thinkingchristian.org/">thinkingchristian.org</a> About James Spencer: <a href="https://www.thinkingchristian.org/james">thinkingchristian.org/james</a> The Thinking Christian Framework: <a href="https://www.thinkingchristian.org/framework">thinkingchristian.org/framework</a> Order Digital Discernment: <a href="https://amzn.to/4zf0Xsm">amazon.com</a>
Subscribe: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@ThinkingChristian?sub_confirmation=1">YouTube</a> &middot; <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thinking-christian-clear-theology-for-a-confusing-world/id1712162582">Apple Podcasts</a> &middot; <a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/3PCi6K1PjPXzhrNVGAPTLX">Spotify</a>
Advertising and partnership inquiries: <a href="mailto:info@thinkingchristian.org">info@thinkingchristian.org</a>
This episode is sponsored by Trinity Debt Management.&nbsp;&ldquo;Whether we&rsquo;re helping people pay off their unsecured debt or offering assistance to those behind in their mortgage payments, Trinity has the knowledge and resources to make a difference. Our intention is to help people become debt-free, and most importantly, remain debt-free for keeps!" If your debt has you down, we should talk.&nbsp;Call us at&nbsp;1-800-793-8548&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href="https://trinitycredit.org/">https://trinitycredit.org/</a>&nbsp;

Thinking Christian is a podcast hosted by Dr. James Spencer, president of the D. L. Moody Center and author of Digital Discernment (InterVarsity Press), with co-host Dr. Ashish Varma. Reading the Bible as the final authority for life and faith means questioning the assumptions of our culture, even our Christian culture, so that we don't settle for a narrower vision than God's word offers.

James and Ashish talk with scholars, pastors, and authors about Scripture and theology, biblical manhood and discipleship, technology and AI, Christian nationalism and politics, church history, and faith and mental health. 

Unsettling convention. Cultivating conviction.

Episodes, transcripts, articles, and questions: https://www.thinkingchristian.org

Thinking Christian is a podcast hosted by Dr. James Spencer, president of the D. L. Moody Center and author of Digital Discernment (InterVarsity Press), with co-host Dr. Ashish Varma. Reading the Bible as the final authority for life and faith means questioning the assumptions of our culture, even our Christian culture, so that we don't settle for a narrower vision than God's word offers.
James and Ashish talk with scholars, pastors, and authors about Scripture and theology, biblical manhood and discipleship, technology and AI, Christian nationalism and politics, church history, and faith and mental health.&nbsp;
Unsettling convention. Cultivating conviction.
Episodes, transcripts, articles, and questions: https://www.thinkingchristian.org

Christians shouldn’t just think. They should think Christian. Join Dr. James Spencer and guests for calm, thoughtful, theological discussions about a variety of topics Christians face every day. The Thinking Christian Podcast will help you grow spiritually and learn theology as you seek to be faithful in a world that is becoming increasingly proficient at telling stories that deny Christ.

Thinking Christian with Drs. James Spencer and Ashish Varma

Christians shouldn’t just think. They should think Christian. Join Dr. James Spencer and guests for calm, thoughtful, theological discussions about a variety of topics Christians face every day. The Thinking Christian Podcast will help you grow spiritually and learn theology as you seek to be faithful in a world that is becoming increasingly proficient at telling stories that deny Christ.

Find more from James at https://www.thinkingchristian.org/.

Christians shouldn&rsquo;t just think. They should think Christian. Join Dr. James Spencer and guests for calm, thoughtful, theological discussions about a variety of topics Christians face every day. The Thinking Christian Podcast will help you grow spiritually and learn theology as you seek to be faithful in a world that is becoming increasingly proficient at telling stories that deny Christ.
Find more from James at <a href="https://www.thinkingchristian.org/">https://www.thinkingchristian.org/</a>.

Thinking Christian: Clear Theology for a Confusing World

Mending the Fracturing Church: Discipleship, Trauma, and Trust (Andrew Hale)

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/5e27a451-e6e6-4c51-aa03-a7370003783c/clips/f91e9903-1603-4753-86a1-b3e8016dd1ed/transcript