What should Christians do with the hardest laws in the Bible—texts about slavery, sexual violence, capital punishment, and social inequality? Should they be explained away… or even crossed out?

In this episode of the Thinking Christian Podcast, Dr. James Spencer is joined by Dr. Gary Edward Schnicker, Distinguished Professor of Old Testament at Cairn University, to discuss Schnicker’s recent article in the Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society examining a provocative proposal by biblical scholar James W. Watts: that “immoral” commands in Scripture—especially in the Torah—should be struck through or repealed.

Watts argues that certain biblical laws are morally indefensible by modern standards and that retaining them enables abuse, violence, and injustice. Schnicker agrees that these texts deeply trouble modern readers—but strongly disagrees with the solution. In this wide-ranging and careful conversation, James and Gary explore why removing or canceling difficult passages creates dangerous “collateral damage”, both theologically and pastorally.

At the heart of the discussion is a crucial claim: many of the biblical laws that offend modern sensibilities are not endorsements of evil, but divine constraints on evil—laws designed to protect the most vulnerable people in the ancient world: slaves, women, the poor, and victims of violence. When these laws are removed or ignored, the Bible is reshaped into something that actually empowers the strong and exposes the weak.

Gary explains how Old Testament law often functions not to establish an ideal society, but to curtail injustice in deeply broken social realities. Drawing on ancient Near Eastern context, Jesus’ own teaching on the law, and long-neglected biblical scholarship, he argues that God meets people where they are—without endorsing the world as it is.

The conversation also addresses:


Why bad interpretation is not the same as biblical meaning


How “reception history” can be misused as a moral veto on Scripture


Why Christians are often embarrassed by parts of the Old Testament


The danger of modern “neo-Marcionism” and un-hitching the Old Testament


Why apologetics answers often fall flat for younger Christians


How ignoring these texts creates faith crises rather than resolving them

James and Gary reflect candidly on the church’s failure to teach these passages well—and how that failure has contributed to widespread biblical confusion, especially in a digital age where moral objections to Scripture circulate constantly but context rarely follows.

Rather than advocating pulpit shock tactics, Schnicker calls pastors, teachers, and church leaders to patient, informed engagement—to stop brushing difficult texts under the carpet and instead learn how they reveal God’s concern for justice, restraint of violence, and care for the vulnerable.

Resources mentioned:


Gary Edward Schnicker, JETS article (available free at carpentersstudent.com)


CarpentersStudent.com (Gary’s Substack)

If you’ve ever struggled with parts of the Old Testament—or wondered why Christians seem embarrassed by their own Scriptures—this episode offers a careful, honest, and deeply pastoral way forward that refuses to cancel the Bible while taking moral questions seriously.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel

🔗 Download a free resource "Making Everyday Decisions So That God Gets the Glory" from Useful to God:www.usefultogod.com

To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com.

📢 Stay Connected & Keep Growing!

If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to Thinking Christian so you never miss an insightful conversation!

Topics include:


“Immoral” commands in the Torah—what’s really going on?


Law as restraint, not endorsement


Slavery, sexual violence, and justice in the ancient world


Why cutting Scripture creates moral blind spots


The limits of modern moral frameworks


Teaching difficult texts without fear or defensiveness


Rebuilding trust in the Bible for the next generation

This episode is sponsored by Trinity Debt Management. “Whether we’re helping people pay off their unsecured debt or offering assistance to those behind in their mortgage payments, Trinity has the knowledge and resources to make a difference. Our intention is to help people become debt-free, and most importantly, remain debt-free for keeps!" If your debt has you down, we should talk. Call us at 1-800-793-8548 | https://trinitycredit.org/ 

What should Christians do with the hardest laws in the Bible&mdash;texts about slavery, sexual violence, capital punishment, and social inequality? Should they be explained away&hellip; or even crossed out?
In this episode of the Thinking Christian Podcast, Dr. James Spencer is joined by Dr. Gary Edward Schnicker, Distinguished Professor of Old Testament at Cairn University, to discuss Schnicker&rsquo;s recent article in the Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society examining a provocative proposal by biblical scholar James W. Watts: that &ldquo;immoral&rdquo; commands in Scripture&mdash;especially in the Torah&mdash;should be struck through or repealed.
Watts argues that certain biblical laws are morally indefensible by modern standards and that retaining them enables abuse, violence, and injustice. Schnicker agrees that these texts deeply trouble modern readers&mdash;but strongly disagrees with the solution. In this wide-ranging and careful conversation, James and Gary explore why removing or canceling difficult passages creates dangerous &ldquo;collateral damage&rdquo;, both theologically and pastorally.
At the heart of the discussion is a crucial claim: many of the biblical laws that offend modern sensibilities are not endorsements of evil, but divine constraints on evil&mdash;laws designed to protect the most vulnerable people in the ancient world: slaves, women, the poor, and victims of violence. When these laws are removed or ignored, the Bible is reshaped into something that actually empowers the strong and exposes the weak.
Gary explains how Old Testament law often functions not to establish an ideal society, but to curtail injustice in deeply broken social realities. Drawing on ancient Near Eastern context, Jesus&rsquo; own teaching on the law, and long-neglected biblical scholarship, he argues that God meets people where they are&mdash;without endorsing the world as it is.
The conversation also addresses:
<ul data-start="2830" data-end="3255">
<li data-start="2830" data-end="2892">
Why bad interpretation is not the same as biblical meaning
</li>
<li data-start="2893" data-end="2964">
How &ldquo;reception history&rdquo; can be misused as a moral veto on Scripture
</li>
<li data-start="2965" data-end="3035">
Why Christians are often embarrassed by parts of the Old Testament
</li>
<li data-start="3036" data-end="3111">
The danger of modern &ldquo;neo-Marcionism&rdquo; and un-hitching the Old Testament
</li>
<li data-start="3112" data-end="3178">
Why apologetics answers often fall flat for younger Christians
</li>
<li data-start="3179" data-end="3255">
How ignoring these texts creates faith crises rather than resolving them
</li>
</ul>
James and Gary reflect candidly on the church&rsquo;s failure to teach these passages well&mdash;and how that failure has contributed to widespread biblical confusion, especially in a digital age where moral objections to Scripture circulate constantly but context rarely follows.
Rather than advocating pulpit shock tactics, Schnicker calls pastors, teachers, and church leaders to patient, informed engagement&mdash;to stop brushing difficult texts under the carpet and instead learn how they reveal God&rsquo;s concern for justice, restraint of violence, and care for the vulnerable.
Resources mentioned:
<ul data-start="4244" data-end="4454">
<li data-start="4244" data-end="4325">
Gary Edward Schnicker, JETS article (available free at <a href="https://CarpentersStudent.com/e/ReparingTorah.pdf">carpentersstudent.com</a>)
</li>
<li data-start="4326" data-end="4373">
<a href="https://www.carpentersstudent.com">CarpentersStudent.com</a> (Gary&rsquo;s Substack)
</li>
</ul>
If you&rsquo;ve ever struggled with parts of the Old Testament&mdash;or wondered why Christians seem embarrassed by their own Scriptures&mdash;this episode offers a careful, honest, and deeply pastoral way forward that refuses to cancel the Bible while taking moral questions seriously.
Subscribe to our <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@Useful_toGod">YouTube channel</a>
🔗 Download a free resource "Making Everyday Decisions So That God Gets the Glory" from Useful to God: <a href="https://www.usefultogod.com">www.usefultogod.com</a>
To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on <a href="https://www.christianity.com/author/james-spencer/">Christianity.com</a>.
📢 Stay Connected &amp; Keep Growing!
If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to Thinking Christian so you never miss an insightful conversation!
Topics include:
<ul data-start="3846" data-end="4217">
<li data-start="3846" data-end="3905">
&ldquo;Immoral&rdquo; commands in the Torah&mdash;what&rsquo;s really going on?
</li>
<li data-start="3906" data-end="3943">
Law as restraint, not endorsement
</li>
<li data-start="3944" data-end="4006">
Slavery, sexual violence, and justice in the ancient world
</li>
<li data-start="4007" data-end="4058">
Why cutting Scripture creates moral blind spots
</li>
<li data-start="4059" data-end="4100">
The limits of modern moral frameworks
</li>
<li data-start="4101" data-end="4159">
Teaching difficult texts without fear or defensiveness
</li>
<li data-start="4160" data-end="4217">
Rebuilding trust in the Bible for the next generation
</li>
</ul>
This episode is sponsored by Trinity Debt Management.&nbsp;&ldquo;Whether we&rsquo;re helping people pay off their unsecured debt or offering assistance to those behind in their mortgage payments, Trinity has the knowledge and resources to make a difference. Our intention is to help people become debt-free, and most importantly, remain debt-free for keeps!" If your debt has you down, we should talk.&nbsp;Call us at&nbsp;1-800-793-8548&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href="https://trinitycredit.org/">https://trinitycredit.org/</a>&nbsp;

Christians shouldn’t just think. They should think Christian. Join Dr. James Spencer and guests for calm, thoughtful, theological discussions about a variety of topics Christians face every day. The Thinking Christian Podcast will help you grow spiritually and learn theology as you seek to be faithful in a world that is becoming increasingly proficient at telling stories that deny Christ.

Find more from James at https://usefultogod.com/.

Christians shouldn’t just think. They should think Christian. Join Dr. James Spencer and guests for calm, thoughtful, theological discussions about a variety of topics Christians face every day. The Thinking Christian Podcast will help you grow spiritually and learn theology as you seek to be faithful in a world that is becoming increasingly proficient at telling stories that deny Christ.
Find more from James at <a href="https://usefultogod.com/">https://usefultogod.com/</a>.

Christians shouldn’t just think. They should think Christian. Join Dr. James Spencer and guests for calm, thoughtful, theological discussions about a variety of topics Christians face every day. The Thinking Christian Podcast will help you grow spiritually and learn theology as you seek to be faithful in a world that is becoming increasingly proficient at telling stories that deny Christ.

Thinking Christian: Clear Theology for a Confusing World

Christians shouldn’t just think. They should think Christian. Join Dr. James Spencer and guests for calm, thoughtful, theological discussions about a variety of topics Christians face every day. The Thinking Christian Podcast will help you grow spiritually and learn theology as you seek to be faithful in a world that is becoming increasingly proficient at telling stories that deny Christ.
Find more from James at <a href="https://usefultogod.com/">https://usefultogod.com/.</a>

Immoral Torah? Why Removing Hard Biblical Laws Does More Harm Than Good (Gary Edward Schnicker)

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/5e27a451-e6e6-4c51-aa03-a7370003783c/clips/f06df642-fce1-42ee-b040-b3db0112157a/transcript