What if the sacred-secular divide is more imagined than real? In this episode of Thinking Christian, Dr. James Spencer sits down with sociologist Elaine Howard Ecklund (Rice University) and business professor Denise Daniels (Wheaton College) to unpack insights from their groundbreaking book Working for Better: A New Approach to Faith at Work. Drawing on the largest-ever study on faith in the U.S. workplace, they explore why so few Christians view their work as a calling, how churches may be failing to equip their congregants, and what systemic structures shape (or stifle) a sense of spiritual vocation. From strip clubs to CEO suites, gig workers to mission-minded healthcare, this is a conversation that will challenge you to see your work—and the work of others—through a new theological lens.

Thinking Christian is hosted by Dr. James Spencer, president of the D. L. Moody Center and author of Digital Discernment (InterVarsity Press). Each conversation reads the Bible as the final authority for life and faith, questioning the assumptions of our culture, even our Christian culture, so that we don't settle for a narrower vision than God's word offers.

Unsettling convention. Cultivating conviction.
Episodes, articles, and questions: thinkingchristian.org
About James Spencer: thinkingchristian.org/james
The Thinking Christian Framework: thinkingchristian.org/framework
Order Digital Discernment: amazon.com

Subscribe: YouTube · Apple Podcasts · Spotify

Advertising and partnership inquiries: info@thinkingchristian.org

Explore the book: Working for Better at ivpress.com (use code IVPPOD20 for a 20% discount)

 

What if the sacred-secular divide is more imagined than real? In this episode of Thinking Christian, Dr. James Spencer sits down with sociologist Elaine Howard Ecklund (Rice University) and business professor Denise Daniels (Wheaton College) to unpack insights from their groundbreaking book Working for Better: A New Approach to Faith at Work. Drawing on the largest-ever study on faith in the U.S. workplace, they explore why so few Christians view their work as a calling, how churches may be failing to equip their congregants, and what systemic structures shape (or stifle) a sense of spiritual vocation. From strip clubs to CEO suites, gig workers to mission-minded healthcare, this is a conversation that will challenge you to see your work&mdash;and the work of others&mdash;through a new theological lens.
Thinking Christian is hosted by Dr. James Spencer, president of the D. L. Moody Center and author of Digital Discernment (InterVarsity Press). Each conversation reads the Bible as the final authority for life and faith, questioning the assumptions of our culture, even our Christian culture, so that we don't settle for a narrower vision than God's word offers.
Unsettling convention. Cultivating conviction. Episodes, articles, and questions: <a href="https://www.thinkingchristian.org/">thinkingchristian.org</a> About James Spencer: <a href="https://www.thinkingchristian.org/james">thinkingchristian.org/james</a> The Thinking Christian Framework: <a href="https://www.thinkingchristian.org/framework">thinkingchristian.org/framework</a> Order Digital Discernment: <a href="https://amzn.to/4zf0Xsm">amazon.com</a>
Subscribe: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@ThinkingChristian?sub_confirmation=1">YouTube</a> &middot; <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thinking-christian-clear-theology-for-a-confusing-world/id1712162582">Apple Podcasts</a> &middot; <a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/3PCi6K1PjPXzhrNVGAPTLX">Spotify</a>
Advertising and partnership inquiries: <a href="mailto:info@thinkingchristian.org">info@thinkingchristian.org</a>
Explore the book: Working for Better at <a href="https://www.ivpress.com/working-for-better?srsltid=AfmBOoqrOOge_Kcx0VCKjfSmQS2rVEj5ZIX9ZyRneUTgoZXVHo1INNgl">ivpress.com</a> (use code IVPPOD20 for a 20% discount)
&nbsp;

Unsettling convention. Cultivating conviction. Thinking Christian is a podcast about the Bible, theology, and culture for Christians who sense that something in today's church isn't working and want to understand why.

Reading the Bible as the final authority for life and faith means questioning the assumptions of our culture, even our Christian culture, so that we don't settle for a narrower vision of reality than God's word offers. Each conversation goes past the headlines to the ideas and inconspicuous patterns underneath them: how we read Scripture, what shapes our politics, how technology shapes us, what faithful discipleship looks like, and where familiar Christian habits don’t fit the patterns emerging from the biblical text.

Hosted by Dr. James Spencer, president of the D. L. Moody Center and author of Digital Discernment (InterVarsity Press), with co-host Dr. Ashish Varma. Episodes include guided series on Scripture, theology, and church history alongside conversations with scholars, pastors, and authors.

Calm, careful, and theological conversations for uncompromising faith.

Episodes, articles, and questions: thinkingchristian.org

Unsettling convention. Cultivating conviction. Thinking Christian is a podcast about the Bible, theology, and culture for Christians who sense that something in today's church isn't working and want to understand why. Reading the Bible as the final authority for life and faith means questioning the assumptions of our culture, even our Christian culture, so that we don't settle for a narrower vision of reality than God's word offers. Each conversation goes past the headlines to the ideas and inconspicuous patterns underneath them: how we read Scripture, what shapes our politics, how technology shapes us, what faithful discipleship looks like, and where familiar Christian habits don&rsquo;t fit the patterns emerging from the biblical text. Hosted by Dr. James Spencer, president of the D. L. Moody Center and author of Digital Discernment (InterVarsity Press), with co-host Dr. Ashish Varma. Episodes include guided series on Scripture, theology, and church history alongside conversations with scholars, pastors, and authors. Calm, careful, and theological conversations for uncompromising faith. Episodes, articles, and questions: <a href="http://thinkingchristian.org/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=http://thinkingchristian.org&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1793101185691000&amp;usg=AOvVaw0pRkBIb9TL81w5uxzgoS8C">thinkingchristian.org</a>

Thinking Christian with Dr. James Spencer reads the Bible as the final authority for life and faith, questioning the assumptions of our culture, even our Christian culture, so that we don’t settle for a narrower vision than God’s word offers. Each week, James, co-host Dr. Ashish Varma, and guests (biblical scholars, theologians, pastors, and authors) take up the questions Christians face: politics and Christian nationalism, technology and AI, biblical manhood, suffering and mental health, how to read Scripture well, and what faithful discipleship looks like now. Calm, careful, and grounded in the text. Unsettling convention. Cultivating conviction. Episodes, transcripts, articles, and questions: thinkingchristian.org

Thinking Christian: Bible, Theology, and Culture

Is Your Job a Calling? (Denise Daniels and Elaine Howard Ecklund)

Suicide prevention in the church: David Gilleland, author of Holding Hope, explains how pastors can recognize warning signs, ask directly, and walk with people toward hope.

David Gilleland spent nearly a decade managing suicide prevention programs for the National Guard and Army Reserves before becoming a pastor. As a pastor, he found that most church leaders had received no suicide prevention training in seminary. He and James Spencer walk through his new book, Holding Hope: A Biblical Guide to Suicide Prevention for Church Leaders, from the warning signs pastors miss to why asking directly about suicide is the surest way to know. The aim is not to turn pastors into clinicians but to equip them to care faithfully.

The conversation questions a church culture shaped by self-sufficiency, where talk of victory leaves little room for the lament of Psalm 88. Gilleland contrasts the people in Scripture who took their own lives with Elijah, Moses, Jonah, and Job, who wanted to die but turned to God. James reads Saul’s end as the fruit of a life ruled by fear of people rather than fear of the Lord. They also ask whether suicide is a sin without reducing that question to a verdict on a suffering person’s eternal destiny.

In this episode:
How can pastors and church leaders recognize the warning signs of suicide?
Is suicide a sin, and how should pastors respond to grieving families?
Saul, Elijah, Moses, Jonah, and Job: suicide and despair in Scripture (1 Kings 19)
Psalm 88, lament, and a church culture of self-sufficiency
Biblical counseling, professional care, and why referral can be an act of love

Guest: David Gilleland, former pastor, biblical counselor, and author of Holding Hope: A Biblical Guide to Suicide Prevention for Church Leaders.
Holding Hope and free church resources: davidgilleland.com

If you or someone you know is in crisis, call or text 988 (Suicide and Crisis Lifeline, US).

Go deeper: Faith and Mental Health
About David Gilleland: thinkingchristian.org/guests/david-gilleland

Thinking Christian is hosted by Dr. James Spencer, president of the D. L. Moody Center and author of Digital Discernment (InterVarsity Press). Each conversation reads the Bible as the final authority for life and faith, questioning the assumptions of our culture, even our Christian culture, so that we don’t settle for a narrower vision than God’s word offers.

Unsettling convention. Cultivating conviction.
Episodes, articles, and questions: thinkingchristian.org
About James Spencer: thinkingchristian.org/james
The Thinking Christian Framework: thinkingchristian.org/framework
Order Digital Discernment: amazon.com

Subscribe: YouTube · Apple Podcasts · Spotify
Advertising and partnership inquiries: info@thinkingchristian.org

Suicide prevention in the church: David Gilleland, author of Holding Hope, explains how pastors can recognize warning signs, ask directly, and walk with people toward hope.
David Gilleland spent nearly a decade managing suicide prevention programs for the National Guard and Army Reserves before becoming a pastor. As a pastor, he found that most church leaders had received no suicide prevention training in seminary. He and James Spencer walk through his new book, Holding Hope: A Biblical Guide to Suicide Prevention for Church Leaders, from the warning signs pastors miss to why asking directly about suicide is the surest way to know. The aim is not to turn pastors into clinicians but to equip them to care faithfully.
The conversation questions a church culture shaped by self-sufficiency, where talk of victory leaves little room for the lament of Psalm 88. Gilleland contrasts the people in Scripture who took their own lives with Elijah, Moses, Jonah, and Job, who wanted to die but turned to God. James reads Saul&rsquo;s end as the fruit of a life ruled by fear of people rather than fear of the Lord. They also ask whether suicide is a sin without reducing that question to a verdict on a suffering person&rsquo;s eternal destiny.
In this episode:
<ul dir="ltr">
<li>How can pastors and church leaders recognize the warning signs of suicide?</li>
<li>Is suicide a sin, and how should pastors respond to grieving families?</li>
<li>Saul, Elijah, Moses, Jonah, and Job: suicide and despair in Scripture (1 Kings 19)</li>
<li>Psalm 88, lament, and a church culture of self-sufficiency</li>
<li>Biblical counseling, professional care, and why referral can be an act of love</li>
</ul>
Guest: David Gilleland, former pastor, biblical counselor, and author of <a href="https://link.amazon/B0bnrknaE">Holding Hope: A Biblical Guide to Suicide Prevention for Church Leaders</a>. Holding Hope and free church resources: <a href="https://www.davidgilleland.com/">davidgilleland.com</a>
If you or someone you know is in crisis, call or text 988 (Suicide and Crisis Lifeline, US).
Go deeper: <a href="https://www.thinkingchristian.org/series/faith-and-mental-health">Faith and Mental Health</a> About David Gilleland: <a href="https://www.thinkingchristian.org/guests/david-gilleland">thinkingchristian.org/guests/david-gilleland</a>
Thinking Christian is hosted by Dr. James Spencer, president of the D. L. Moody Center and author of Digital Discernment (InterVarsity Press). Each conversation reads the Bible as the final authority for life and faith, questioning the assumptions of our culture, even our Christian culture, so that we don&rsquo;t settle for a narrower vision than God&rsquo;s word offers.
Unsettling convention. Cultivating conviction. Episodes, articles, and questions: <a href="https://www.thinkingchristian.org/">thinkingchristian.org</a> About James Spencer: <a href="https://www.thinkingchristian.org/james">thinkingchristian.org/james</a> The Thinking Christian Framework: <a href="https://www.thinkingchristian.org/framework">thinkingchristian.org/framework</a> Order Digital Discernment: <a href="https://amzn.to/4zf0Xsm">amazon.com</a>
Subscribe: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@ThinkingChristian?sub_confirmation=1">YouTube</a> &middot; <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thinking-christian-clear-theology-for-a-confusing-world/id1712162582">Apple Podcasts</a> &middot; <a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/3PCi6K1PjPXzhrNVGAPTLX">Spotify</a> Advertising and partnership inquiries: <a href="mailto:info@thinkingchristian.org">info@thinkingchristian.org</a>

Suicide Prevention in the Church: A Biblical Guide for Pastors (David Gilleland)

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/5e27a451-e6e6-4c51-aa03-a7370003783c/clips/d1d6ad4a-2855-4dea-a809-b4ec0112afea/transcript

Can pastors endorse political candidates? Troy Miller, president and CEO of National Religious Broadcasters, explains NRB’s Johnson Amendment lawsuit against the IRS.

The Johnson Amendment was added to the tax code in 1954 by then Senator Lyndon B. Johnson. It bars 501(c)(3) organizations, including churches, from endorsing or opposing political candidates. Miller explains why NRB went to court in 2024 and why the case was narrowed to pastors speaking to their congregations. He also explains how a consent decree with the Justice Department now depends on an appeal to the Fifth Circuit over the Anti-Injunction Act. He and James clarify what the case would and would not change for churches, broadcasters, and podcasters.

The conversation questions the assumption that keeping faith out of public life produces neutrality. Miller argues that someone’s worldview always guides law and policy. He traces a long history of pastors speaking to moral questions, from the Black Robe Regiment to Martin Luther at the Diet of Worms. James weighs the risks of pastors speaking about candidates and why the case may matter most for local politics. He also notes the irony that for-profit corporations face fewer limits on political activity than nonprofits.

In this episode:
What is the Johnson Amendment, and how did Lyndon B. Johnson add it to the tax code in 1954?
Why National Religious Broadcasters sued the IRS, and what the consent decree with the Justice Department would protect
The Anti-Injunction Act and NRB’s appeal to the Fifth Circuit
Martin Luther at the Diet of Worms, Jefferson’s letter to the Danbury Baptists, and the separation of church and state
Why the case covers pastors and their broadcasts but not other Christian broadcasters or podcasters

Guest: Troy Miller, president and CEO of National Religious Broadcasters.

Go deeper: Christians and Politics
About Troy Miller: thinkingchristian.org/guests/troy-miller

Thinking Christian is hosted by Dr. James Spencer, president of the D. L. Moody Center and author of Digital Discernment (InterVarsity Press). Each conversation reads the Bible as the final authority for life and faith, questioning the assumptions of our culture, even our Christian culture, so that we don’t settle for a narrower vision than God’s word offers.

Unsettling convention. Cultivating conviction.
Episodes, articles, and questions: thinkingchristian.org
About James Spencer: thinkingchristian.org/james
The Thinking Christian Framework: thinkingchristian.org/framework
Order Digital Discernment: amazon.com

Subscribe: YouTube · Apple Podcasts · Spotify
Advertising and partnership inquiries: info@thinkingchristian.org

Can pastors endorse political candidates? Troy Miller, president and CEO of National Religious Broadcasters, explains NRB&rsquo;s Johnson Amendment lawsuit against the IRS.
The Johnson Amendment was added to the tax code in 1954 by then Senator Lyndon B. Johnson. It bars 501(c)(3) organizations, including churches, from endorsing or opposing political candidates. Miller explains why NRB went to court in 2024 and why the case was narrowed to pastors speaking to their congregations. He also explains how a consent decree with the Justice Department now depends on an appeal to the Fifth Circuit over the Anti-Injunction Act. He and James clarify what the case would and would not change for churches, broadcasters, and podcasters.
The conversation questions the assumption that keeping faith out of public life produces neutrality. Miller argues that someone&rsquo;s worldview always guides law and policy. He traces a long history of pastors speaking to moral questions, from the Black Robe Regiment to Martin Luther at the Diet of Worms. James weighs the risks of pastors speaking about candidates and why the case may matter most for local politics. He also notes the irony that for-profit corporations face fewer limits on political activity than nonprofits.
In this episode:
<ul dir="ltr">
<li>What is the Johnson Amendment, and how did Lyndon B. Johnson add it to the tax code in 1954?</li>
<li>Why National Religious Broadcasters sued the IRS, and what the consent decree with the Justice Department would protect</li>
<li>The Anti-Injunction Act and NRB&rsquo;s appeal to the Fifth Circuit</li>
<li>Martin Luther at the Diet of Worms, Jefferson&rsquo;s letter to the Danbury Baptists, and the separation of church and state</li>
<li>Why the case covers pastors and their broadcasts but not other Christian broadcasters or podcasters</li>
</ul>
Guest: Troy Miller, president and CEO of National Religious Broadcasters.
Go deeper: <a href="https://www.thinkingchristian.org/politics">Christians and Politics</a> About Troy Miller: <a href="https://www.thinkingchristian.org/guests/troy-miller">thinkingchristian.org/guests/troy-miller</a>
Thinking Christian is hosted by Dr. James Spencer, president of the D. L. Moody Center and author of Digital Discernment (InterVarsity Press). Each conversation reads the Bible as the final authority for life and faith, questioning the assumptions of our culture, even our Christian culture, so that we don&rsquo;t settle for a narrower vision than God&rsquo;s word offers.
Unsettling convention. Cultivating conviction. Episodes, articles, and questions: <a href="https://www.thinkingchristian.org/">thinkingchristian.org</a> About James Spencer: <a href="https://www.thinkingchristian.org/james">thinkingchristian.org/james</a> The Thinking Christian Framework: <a href="https://www.thinkingchristian.org/framework">thinkingchristian.org/framework</a> Order Digital Discernment: <a href="https://amzn.to/4zf0Xsm">amazon.com</a>
Subscribe: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@thinking_christian?sub_confirmation=1">YouTube</a> &middot; <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thinking-christian-clear-theology-for-a-confusing-world/id1712162582">Apple Podcasts</a> &middot; <a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/3PCi6K1PjPXzhrNVGAPTLX">Spotify</a> Advertising and partnership inquiries: <a href="mailto:info@thinkingchristian.org">info@thinkingchristian.org</a>

Johnson Amendment Lawsuit: Can Pastors Endorse Candidates? (Troy Miller)

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/5e27a451-e6e6-4c51-aa03-a7370003783c/clips/214eb56e-77c0-41a8-ac64-b4ec013d09f7/transcript

Why should Christians engage politics? Vincent Bacote of Wheaton College argues that political engagement needs a theological foundation, not an ad hoc approach.

Vincent Bacote, professor of theology and director of the Center for Applied Christian Ethics at Wheaton College, joins James Spencer and Ashish Varma to ground political life in stewardship and common grace. Politics, he argues, is one part of humanity's larger calling to manage the world God gave us, and Americans hold more political agency than most people in history. That agency changes how we read Romans 13 and 1 Peter 2.

Many evangelicals can say they should care about politics but cannot say why from what they believe. Bacote and Spencer trace how issues get handed to Christians by trusted leaders rather than formed by theology, and how that has let evangelicals be defined as a voting bloc. Bacote also presses on James Davison Hunter's faithful presence: start small, because you are not the Messiah, but keep dreaming of a better common good.

In this episode:
Why Christians need a theological foundation, not an ad hoc approach, for political engagement
Common grace, Abraham Kuyper, Psalm 8, and the stewardship of public life
Romans 13:1–4, 1 Peter 2, and what changes when citizens have political agency
Voting as public witness, evangelical identity, and how race and abortion became political issues
James Davison Hunter's faithful presence, small steps, and how to keep politicians from drawing our lines

Guest: Vincent Bacote, professor of theology and director of the Center for Applied Christian Ethics at Wheaton College.

Go deeper: Christians and Politics About Vincent Bacote: thinkingchristian.org/guests/vincent-bacote

Thinking Christian is hosted by Dr. James Spencer, president of the D. L. Moody Center and author of Digital Discernment (InterVarsity Press). Each conversation reads the Bible as the final authority for life and faith, questioning the assumptions of our culture, even our Christian culture, so that we don't settle for a narrower vision than God's word offers.

Unsettling convention. Cultivating conviction. Episodes, articles, and questions: thinkingchristian.org About James Spencer: thinkingchristian.org/james The Thinking Christian Framework: thinkingchristian.org/framework Order Digital Discernment: amazon.com

Subscribe: YouTube · Apple Podcasts · Spotify Advertising and partnership inquiries: info@thinkingchristian.org

Why should Christians engage politics? Vincent Bacote of Wheaton College argues that political engagement needs a theological foundation, not an ad hoc approach.
Vincent Bacote, professor of theology and director of the Center for Applied Christian Ethics at Wheaton College, joins James Spencer and Ashish Varma to ground political life in stewardship and common grace. Politics, he argues, is one part of humanity's larger calling to manage the world God gave us, and Americans hold more political agency than most people in history. That agency changes how we read Romans 13 and 1 Peter 2.
Many evangelicals can say they should care about politics but cannot say why from what they believe. Bacote and Spencer trace how issues get handed to Christians by trusted leaders rather than formed by theology, and how that has let evangelicals be defined as a voting bloc. Bacote also presses on James Davison Hunter's faithful presence: start small, because you are not the Messiah, but keep dreaming of a better common good.
In this episode:
<ul dir="ltr">
<li>Why Christians need a theological foundation, not an ad hoc approach, for political engagement</li>
<li>Common grace, Abraham Kuyper, Psalm 8, and the stewardship of public life</li>
<li>Romans 13:1&ndash;4, 1 Peter 2, and what changes when citizens have political agency</li>
<li>Voting as public witness, evangelical identity, and how race and abortion became political issues</li>
<li>James Davison Hunter's faithful presence, small steps, and how to keep politicians from drawing our lines</li>
</ul>
Guest: Vincent Bacote, professor of theology and director of the Center for Applied Christian Ethics at Wheaton College.
Go deeper: <a href="https://www.thinkingchristian.org/politics">Christians and Politics</a> About Vincent Bacote: <a href="https://www.thinkingchristian.org/guests/vincent-bacote">thinkingchristian.org/guests/vincent-bacote</a>
Thinking Christian is hosted by Dr. James Spencer, president of the D. L. Moody Center and author of Digital Discernment (InterVarsity Press). Each conversation reads the Bible as the final authority for life and faith, questioning the assumptions of our culture, even our Christian culture, so that we don't settle for a narrower vision than God's word offers.
Unsettling convention. Cultivating conviction. Episodes, articles, and questions: <a href="https://www.thinkingchristian.org/">thinkingchristian.org</a> About James Spencer: <a href="https://www.thinkingchristian.org/james">thinkingchristian.org/james</a> The Thinking Christian Framework: <a href="https://www.thinkingchristian.org/framework">thinkingchristian.org/framework</a> Order Digital Discernment: <a href="https://amzn.to/4zf0Xsm">amazon.com</a>
Subscribe: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@thinking_christian?sub_confirmation=1">YouTube</a> &middot; <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thinking-christian-clear-theology-for-a-confusing-world/id1712162582">Apple Podcasts</a> &middot; <a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/3PCi6K1PjPXzhrNVGAPTLX">Spotify</a> Advertising and partnership inquiries: <a href="mailto:info@thinkingchristian.org">info@thinkingchristian.org</a>

Why Should Christians Engage Politics? (Vincent Bacote) | Faith & Politics #13

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/5e27a451-e6e6-4c51-aa03-a7370003783c/clips/1ef30e64-2a61-45ec-b02f-b4b2013ef32a/transcript

Is Your Job a Calling? (Denise Daniels and Elaine Howard Ecklund)

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