Pastors are carrying more emotional and spiritual weight than most congregations realize—and many churches still treat counseling and discipleship as if they’re separate worlds. In this episode of the Thinking Christian Podcast, Dr. James Spencer is joined by Dr. Steve Stuhlreyer (Professor of Counselor Education at Columbia International University, former lead pastor) to talk about what it looks like when the church becomes a place of healing, relational care, and wise referral.

Steve explains why the line between discipleship and counseling is often a false dichotomy. While some cases require trained clinical care (and sometimes medical collaboration), most people seeking help are what Steve calls the “worried well”—believers navigating grief, stress, anxiety, loneliness, transitions, and everyday burdens that can’t be carried alone. In those cases, what’s often missing isn’t a diagnosis—it’s relationship: a trusted person who can listen, walk with them, and help them grow in Christ.

James and Steve also discuss the unique pressures pastors face: living in a fishbowl, constant availability, criticism, and the real loneliness that comes with leadership. Steve shares why many pastors won’t disclose struggles to denominational systems or even church members, and how chronic pressure can contribute to burnout, depression, anxiety, and in some situations, even trauma-like symptoms. The result is not just personal pain—it can limit a pastor’s ability to lead with spiritual health and long-term resilience.

Finally, the conversation turns practical: What can churches do? Steve offers concrete advice for building a healthier ecosystem where lay care, discipleship, and counseling support work together—freeing trained counselors to focus on complex cases while the church becomes a genuine “hospital” for everyday burdens. They also touch on men’s ministry and why Christian manhood must be formed by Christlike strength, humility, and grace, not cultural machismo.

Topics include:


The overlap between counseling and discipleship


Who truly needs clinical counseling—and who needs relational support


Why pastors are often lonely (and afraid to be honest)


How trauma and burnout can develop in ministry


Practical ways elders and church leaders can care for pastors


Men’s discipleship that builds strength without bravado

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🔗 Download a free resource "Making Everyday Decisions So That God Gets the Glory" from Useful to God:www.usefultogod.com

To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com.

📢 Stay Connected & Keep Growing!

If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to Thinking Christian so you never miss an insightful conversation!

This episode is sponsored by Trinity Debt Management. “Whether we’re helping people pay off their unsecured debt or offering assistance to those behind in their mortgage payments, Trinity has the knowledge and resources to make a difference. Our intention is to help people become debt-free, and most importantly, remain debt-free for keeps!" If your debt has you down, we should talk. Call us at 1-800-793-8548 | https://trinitycredit.org/ 

Pastors are carrying more emotional and spiritual weight than most congregations realize&mdash;and many churches still treat counseling and discipleship as if they&rsquo;re separate worlds. In this episode of the Thinking Christian Podcast, Dr. James Spencer is joined by Dr. Steve Stuhlreyer (Professor of Counselor Education at Columbia International University, former lead pastor) to talk about what it looks like when the church becomes a place of healing, relational care, and wise referral.
Steve explains why the line between discipleship and counseling is often a false dichotomy. While some cases require trained clinical care (and sometimes medical collaboration), most people seeking help are what Steve calls the &ldquo;worried well&rdquo;&mdash;believers navigating grief, stress, anxiety, loneliness, transitions, and everyday burdens that can&rsquo;t be carried alone. In those cases, what&rsquo;s often missing isn&rsquo;t a diagnosis&mdash;it&rsquo;s relationship: a trusted person who can listen, walk with them, and help them grow in Christ.
James and Steve also discuss the unique pressures pastors face: living in a fishbowl, constant availability, criticism, and the real loneliness that comes with leadership. Steve shares why many pastors won&rsquo;t disclose struggles to denominational systems or even church members, and how chronic pressure can contribute to burnout, depression, anxiety, and in some situations, even trauma-like symptoms. The result is not just personal pain&mdash;it can limit a pastor&rsquo;s ability to lead with spiritual health and long-term resilience.
Finally, the conversation turns practical: What can churches do? Steve offers concrete advice for building a healthier ecosystem where lay care, discipleship, and counseling support work together&mdash;freeing trained counselors to focus on complex cases while the church becomes a genuine &ldquo;hospital&rdquo; for everyday burdens. They also touch on men&rsquo;s ministry and why Christian manhood must be formed by Christlike strength, humility, and grace, not cultural machismo.
Topics include:
<ul data-start="2797" data-end="3155">
<li data-start="2797" data-end="2848">
The overlap between counseling and discipleship
</li>
<li data-start="2849" data-end="2921">
Who truly needs clinical counseling&mdash;and who needs relational support
</li>
<li data-start="2922" data-end="2980">
Why pastors are often lonely (and afraid to be honest)
</li>
<li data-start="2981" data-end="3031">
How trauma and burnout can develop in ministry
</li>
<li data-start="3032" data-end="3097">
Practical ways elders and church leaders can care for pastors
</li>
<li data-start="3098" data-end="3155">
Men&rsquo;s discipleship that builds strength without bravado
</li>
</ul>
Subscribe to our <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@Useful_toGod">YouTube channel</a>
🔗 Download a free resource "Making Everyday Decisions So That God Gets the Glory" from Useful to God: <a href="https://www.usefultogod.com">www.usefultogod.com</a>
To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on <a href="https://www.christianity.com/author/james-spencer/">Christianity.com</a>.
📢 Stay Connected &amp; Keep Growing!
If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to Thinking Christian so you never miss an insightful conversation!
This episode is sponsored by Trinity Debt Management.&nbsp;&ldquo;Whether we&rsquo;re helping people pay off their unsecured debt or offering assistance to those behind in their mortgage payments, Trinity has the knowledge and resources to make a difference. Our intention is to help people become debt-free, and most importantly, remain debt-free for keeps!" If your debt has you down, we should talk.&nbsp;Call us at&nbsp;1-800-793-8548&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href="https://trinitycredit.org/">https://trinitycredit.org/</a>&nbsp;

Christians shouldn’t just think. They should think Christian. Join Dr. James Spencer and guests for calm, thoughtful, theological discussions about a variety of topics Christians face every day. The Thinking Christian Podcast will help you grow spiritually and learn theology as you seek to be faithful in a world that is becoming increasingly proficient at telling stories that deny Christ.

Find more from James at https://usefultogod.com/.

Christians shouldn’t just think. They should think Christian. Join Dr. James Spencer and guests for calm, thoughtful, theological discussions about a variety of topics Christians face every day. The Thinking Christian Podcast will help you grow spiritually and learn theology as you seek to be faithful in a world that is becoming increasingly proficient at telling stories that deny Christ.
Find more from James at <a href="https://usefultogod.com/">https://usefultogod.com/</a>.

Christians shouldn’t just think. They should think Christian. Join Dr. James Spencer and guests for calm, thoughtful, theological discussions about a variety of topics Christians face every day. The Thinking Christian Podcast will help you grow spiritually and learn theology as you seek to be faithful in a world that is becoming increasingly proficient at telling stories that deny Christ.

Thinking Christian: Clear Theology for a Confusing World

Christians shouldn’t just think. They should think Christian. Join Dr. James Spencer and guests for calm, thoughtful, theological discussions about a variety of topics Christians face every day. The Thinking Christian Podcast will help you grow spiritually and learn theology as you seek to be faithful in a world that is becoming increasingly proficient at telling stories that deny Christ.
Find more from James at <a href="https://usefultogod.com/">https://usefultogod.com/.</a>

Counseling and the Church: How Pastors and Congregations Should Work Together (Dr. Steve Stuhlreyer)

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/5e27a451-e6e6-4c51-aa03-a7370003783c/clips/f24d308c-d9ec-48fc-8904-b3d20033b649/transcript