What do you do when faith feels dry, confusing, or emotionally barren—when God seems absent, or even uncomfortably near? In this episode of the Thinking Christian Podcast, Dr. James Spencer talks with Dr. Noelle Forlini-Byrte, author of God in the Desert: A Spiritual Theology of Wilderness in the Old Testament and part-time lecturer at Samford University, about the wilderness as a spiritual landscape for real Christians living real lives.

Noelle shares how this book was “twenty years in the making,” beginning with her first spiritual formation class and early encounters with the mystics—especially St. John of the Cross and the theme of God’s “dark night” and felt absence. Those questions followed her into doctoral work in the Old Testament, where narratives like Jacob wrestling at the Jabbok, the exile, and Israel’s wilderness wanderings became a rich theological map for suffering, disorientation, and divine encounter.

James and Noelle explore why the church often defaults to two unhealthy extremes: shallow, pithy “application” divorced from biblical context—or scholarship so clinical that it leaves the soul malnourished. Noelle argues that liturgy and scholarship must belong together: rigorous exegesis should not be an escape from spiritual formation, and devotional practices should not ignore the actual meaning of the text. The goal is not information alone, but a scripture-shaped life where God excavates the soul.

Along the way, they discuss difficult Old Testament passages without smoothing out their discomfort—especially the wilderness as a place of testing (Deuteronomy 8) and purgation (Hosea 2). Noelle draws on the Christian mystical tradition to describe purgation as the stripping away of “self-made props,” the idolatries and illusions that quietly sustain us until wilderness exposes what we truly trust.

One of the most resonant themes is acedia—the “noonday demon” from the desert tradition: spiritual weariness, malaise, and the temptation to give up when faith becomes costly and daily life grinds us down. James connects acedia to midlife, family pressures, and the subtle exhaustion that comes not from one tragedy, but from “death by a thousand cuts.” Noelle suggests that the very presence of these questions can be a sign of a deeper, weathered faith—because wilderness presupposes we are actually walking with God.

The conversation closes with a challenge for the church today: humility, honest questions, and a willingness to let Scripture form us rather than simply confirm us. Faithful discipleship requires more than confidence—it requires wakefulness and the courage to bring our real lives before God.

You can get God in the Desert: A Spiritual Theology of Wilderness in the Old Testament at ivpress.com(use code IVPPOD20 for a 20% discount) 

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🔗 Download a free resource "Making Everyday Decisions So That God Gets the Glory" from Useful to God:www.usefultogod.com

To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com.

📢 Stay Connected & Keep Growing!

If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to Thinking Christian so you never miss an insightful conversation!

Topics include:


Why wilderness is a central biblical image for spiritual formation


God’s felt absence vs. God’s “hyper-presence”


The danger of devotionals without exegesis—and scholarship without soul


Hagar, exile, and uncomfortable honesty in biblical narratives


Deuteronomy 8 and forgetting God in prosperity


Hosea 2 and purgation: God stripping away false securities


Acedia and spiritual weariness in midlife and modern discipleship


Humility, honest prayer, and faith that can handle “why” questions

This episode is sponsored by Trinity Debt Management. “Whether we’re helping people pay off their unsecured debt or offering assistance to those behind in their mortgage payments, Trinity has the knowledge and resources to make a difference. Our intention is to help people become debt-free, and most importantly, remain debt-free for keeps!" If your debt has you down, we should talk. Call us at 1-800-793-8548 | https://trinitycredit.org/ 

What do you do when faith feels dry, confusing, or emotionally barren&mdash;when God seems absent, or even uncomfortably near? In this episode of the Thinking Christian Podcast, Dr. James Spencer talks with Dr. Noelle Forlini-Byrte, author of God in the Desert: A Spiritual Theology of Wilderness in the Old Testament and part-time lecturer at Samford University, about the wilderness as a spiritual landscape for real Christians living real lives.
Noelle shares how this book was &ldquo;twenty years in the making,&rdquo; beginning with her first spiritual formation class and early encounters with the mystics&mdash;especially St. John of the Cross and the theme of God&rsquo;s &ldquo;dark night&rdquo; and felt absence. Those questions followed her into doctoral work in the Old Testament, where narratives like Jacob wrestling at the Jabbok, the exile, and Israel&rsquo;s wilderness wanderings became a rich theological map for suffering, disorientation, and divine encounter.
James and Noelle explore why the church often defaults to two unhealthy extremes: shallow, pithy &ldquo;application&rdquo; divorced from biblical context&mdash;or scholarship so clinical that it leaves the soul malnourished. Noelle argues that liturgy and scholarship must belong together: rigorous exegesis should not be an escape from spiritual formation, and devotional practices should not ignore the actual meaning of the text. The goal is not information alone, but a scripture-shaped life where God excavates the soul.
Along the way, they discuss difficult Old Testament passages without smoothing out their discomfort&mdash;especially the wilderness as a place of testing (Deuteronomy 8) and purgation (Hosea 2). Noelle draws on the Christian mystical tradition to describe purgation as the stripping away of &ldquo;self-made props,&rdquo; the idolatries and illusions that quietly sustain us until wilderness exposes what we truly trust.
One of the most resonant themes is acedia&mdash;the &ldquo;noonday demon&rdquo; from the desert tradition: spiritual weariness, malaise, and the temptation to give up when faith becomes costly and daily life grinds us down. James connects acedia to midlife, family pressures, and the subtle exhaustion that comes not from one tragedy, but from &ldquo;death by a thousand cuts.&rdquo; Noelle suggests that the very presence of these questions can be a sign of a deeper, weathered faith&mdash;because wilderness presupposes we are actually walking with God.
The conversation closes with a challenge for the church today: humility, honest questions, and a willingness to let Scripture form us rather than simply confirm us. Faithful discipleship requires more than confidence&mdash;it requires wakefulness and the courage to bring our real lives before God.
You can get God in the Desert: A Spiritual Theology of Wilderness in the Old Testament at <a href="https://www.ivpress.com/god-in-the-desert">ivpress.com</a> (use code IVPPOD20 for a 20% discount)&nbsp;
Subscribe to our <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@Useful_toGod">YouTube channel</a>
🔗 Download a free resource "Making Everyday Decisions So That God Gets the Glory" from Useful to God: <a href="https://www.usefultogod.com">www.usefultogod.com</a>
To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on <a href="https://www.christianity.com/author/james-spencer/">Christianity.com</a>.
📢 Stay Connected &amp; Keep Growing!
If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to Thinking Christian so you never miss an insightful conversation!
Topics include:
<ul data-start="3484" data-end="4006">
<li data-start="3484" data-end="3554">
Why wilderness is a central biblical image for spiritual formation
</li>
<li data-start="3555" data-end="3604">
God&rsquo;s felt absence vs. God&rsquo;s &ldquo;hyper-presence&rdquo;
</li>
<li data-start="3605" data-end="3680">
The danger of devotionals without exegesis&mdash;and scholarship without soul
</li>
<li data-start="3681" data-end="3747">
Hagar, exile, and uncomfortable honesty in biblical narratives
</li>
<li data-start="3748" data-end="3798">
Deuteronomy 8 and forgetting God in prosperity
</li>
<li data-start="3799" data-end="3861">
Hosea 2 and purgation: God stripping away false securities
</li>
<li data-start="3862" data-end="3935">
Acedia and spiritual weariness in midlife and modern discipleship
</li>
<li data-start="3936" data-end="4006">
Humility, honest prayer, and faith that can handle &ldquo;why&rdquo; questions
</li>
</ul>
This episode is sponsored by Trinity Debt Management.&nbsp;&ldquo;Whether we&rsquo;re helping people pay off their unsecured debt or offering assistance to those behind in their mortgage payments, Trinity has the knowledge and resources to make a difference. Our intention is to help people become debt-free, and most importantly, remain debt-free for keeps!" If your debt has you down, we should talk.&nbsp;Call us at&nbsp;1-800-793-8548&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href="https://trinitycredit.org/">https://trinitycredit.org/</a>&nbsp;

Christians shouldn’t just think. They should think Christian. Join Dr. James Spencer and guests for calm, thoughtful, theological discussions about a variety of topics Christians face every day. The Thinking Christian Podcast will help you grow spiritually and learn theology as you seek to be faithful in a world that is becoming increasingly proficient at telling stories that deny Christ.

Find more from James at https://usefultogod.com/.

Christians shouldn’t just think. They should think Christian. Join Dr. James Spencer and guests for calm, thoughtful, theological discussions about a variety of topics Christians face every day. The Thinking Christian Podcast will help you grow spiritually and learn theology as you seek to be faithful in a world that is becoming increasingly proficient at telling stories that deny Christ.
Find more from James at <a href="https://usefultogod.com/">https://usefultogod.com/</a>.

Christians shouldn’t just think. They should think Christian. Join Dr. James Spencer and guests for calm, thoughtful, theological discussions about a variety of topics Christians face every day. The Thinking Christian Podcast will help you grow spiritually and learn theology as you seek to be faithful in a world that is becoming increasingly proficient at telling stories that deny Christ.

Thinking Christian: Clear Theology for a Confusing World

Christians shouldn’t just think. They should think Christian. Join Dr. James Spencer and guests for calm, thoughtful, theological discussions about a variety of topics Christians face every day. The Thinking Christian Podcast will help you grow spiritually and learn theology as you seek to be faithful in a world that is becoming increasingly proficient at telling stories that deny Christ.
Find more from James at <a href="https://usefultogod.com/">https://usefultogod.com/.</a>

Acedia, Purgation, and Faith That Lasts: God in the Desert (Noelle Forlini-Byrte)

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/5e27a451-e6e6-4c51-aa03-a7370003783c/clips/a0ed0dd9-6f43-4838-a945-b3d20171e577/transcript