Gender Pay Gap Bot calls out performative tweets on International Women's Day (and spreads a little social media chaos along the way)

Published Mar 22, 2022, 9:24 PM

On International Women's Day, brands unleashed their tweets "celebrating women." But the Gender Pay Gap Bot was here to call out the hypocrisy of companies claiming to champion women while paying them less. We chat with Francessa Lawson, the social media marketer behind the bot.Follow Gender Pay Gap Bot on Twitter: https://twitter.com/PayGapApp

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What I really hope is that what the works that we've done with the boss has been able to inspire companies and just thinking like, well, we've we've ignored our problems and it's not worked, So you know, maybe this is a bit of a kick up for bum to do something about it. There Are No Girls on the Internet. As a production of I Heart Radio and Unbossed Creative, I'm Bridget Toad and this is there are No Girls on the Internet. March eighth is International Women's Day, a global holiday to commemorate the achievements of women, and I have to say, I really really hate it. And if we're being completely honest, I have always been a little bit of a grinch about pretty much any and all holidays or commemorative months meant to celebrate marginalized people, because it always seems that they get call up that by brands and corporations making empty gestures towards solidarity that are pretty much meaningless. So I usually stay away from social media on International Women's Day because I really can do without the tweets from brands about how I should celebrate women by using their discount code to buy lingerie or whatever. But this international Women's Day, something a little bit different happened. Yes, the brand still did their thing, unleashing their hollow tweets assuring us how much they love women. But when they did, they were retweeted by a Twitter account called the gender pay gap bot that added some very important context how much of a gender wage gap exists at the very same companies tweeting about how they're celebrating women. So, for instance, when the fashion retailer Misguide had tweeted, we're paying it forward this International Women's Day and we're giving away prizes throughout the day, including one thousand pounds cash, gender pay gaff retweeted their tweet, adding, in this organization, women's media and hourly pay is lower than men's. Out Now, many of the Women's Day tweets made by companies that gender pay Gap put on blasphere paying women less were curiously deleted. It was social media chaos, and as a messy bitch, of course, I loved every minute of it. I spoke to Francesca Lawson, the social media marketer based in Manchester who built the gender pay Gap alongside her partner Ali, about how it came to be. So Francesca, I have to tell you your project really just stuck something inside of me. I guess I'm a little bit of a grinch. I really hate holidays like Pride, I hate International Women's Day, and I just feel that these days have kind of become so co opted in a lot of ways. Um, is this something that you can relate to? Yeah, definitely. Like in my line of work in like social media marketing, I have been that person that's made myself really unpopular when I've you know, being asked to update all our logos to Pride flags, for instance, and I've been like, hold on a second, why do you want to do that? You know, you want to sort of make sure that we're promoting ourselves as being really good for like LGBT rights, But what do we have to show for that? Can we really sort of put out a flag and that be it, that'd be all our contribution. So yeah, that's just another example of kind of you know, where this sort of performative kind of marketing comes about, and it really frustrates me. It just doesn't sit sit right with like my values. You know, I believe that, you know, it's up to all of us to be kind of working towards a more inclusive worlds through our actions. And so yeah, it's not enough to and change your profile picture to a Pride flag, and it's not enough to like post inspirational women webinar for International Women's Day. Um, you know, it's really important that m our words are backed up by our actions, whether we are speaking as an individual or a business or like a kind of a government body or something like that. It's and so yeah, that's what inspired the creation of the gender pay gap. But you know, we've got the gender pay gap data available for UK companies with more than two hundred and fifty employees. So you know, by putting that back into the spotlight, back into the public eye, it just helps helps members of the public see through these messages of corporate solidarity and you know, make their own minds up about how well an employer is doing for equality. On Twitter, the gender pay gap bats bio reads employers, if you tweet about International Women's Day, I'll retweet your gender pay gap looking as emog using purposeful unemotional language. The gender pig app that tweets publicly available data to highlight the actual values of the company's proclaiming the champion women and it was one from the same kind of frustration that I feel about empty platitude about uplifting women and other marginalized voices. It was basically the weekend before International Women's Day twenty one is when you know, if things started coming through again and you know, people promoting their their resents, people offering you discount codes to you know buy like lingerie or something for International Women's Day, and it just sort of made me so frustrated because it seems like no one's facing any accountability for these claims. And so I knew that the data was there. I don't think that many of the people did know that the data was there. So yeah, myself and my partner and Ali, we sort of wanted to come up with a way of putting that data back into the spotlight, and yeah, we built a box. In the UK, any company that employs more than people has to publish their figures comparing men and women's average pay across the organization. You can see it at gender Pay Gap, that service that gob at UK. Now, this transparency is a great step, but Catsca says it still has a long way to go. So in the UK, any company that has more than two fifty employers has to make their pay their gender pay. Uh is it just pay generally or is it specifically pay in relation to the gender pay gap. It's just in relation to the gender pay gaps. So we don't have like a record of, um, what employees are getting paid, what wages within that company. All we've got is sort of the average the difference between the average man's earnings and the difference between the average women's earnings. And so it's a useful it's a useful way to sort of, you know, compare kind of companies actions, faces, their words. But you know, it's not enough to truly get a scale of where the inequalities exists in a company. Um. And it also just covers gender as well. And you know what I would really like to see is you know, more different types of inequalities being included in that, like, you know, just getting a handle on the ethnicity pay gap as well, and you know what sort of um, kind of barriers people of color face in these organizations for you know, getting good wages and kind of progressing up the career. Laddin data is so powerful. You know, data dos a lie. Numbers are numbers do, but they're meaningless if people don't know about, then if people are engaging with it, And so I wonder do you sort of see this bad as a kind of data visualization project where you're really trying to bring more visibility and more awareness around the cold hard kind of depressing numbers around the pay gap. Yeah, definitely, it's um the data on the government site is quite inaccessible. I think it's like you've got to first of all, find the find where it's stored, you know, Google Search. You've got to know what you're looking for, and then when you're on there, you've got to search for a specific company who's pay gaps that you want to look at, and then you've got to sort of click through every different and every different year that they've reported. Some of them will have five years worth the data, some of them, say, you know, newer companies or companies that have recently expanded might only have one or two. So it's a there's a lot of information there, but you've got to do a lot of work to get it. And Yeah, what we wanted to do is make sure that you know, people knew that that information was there, and you know, it was in a way that they could understand. It's not hidden a way. It's here on Twister, you know, when everyone is kind of seeing all these International Women's Day supportive posts, it's just the data is there for them to make their own minds up about kind of what that means. It's completely devoid of any emotion or judgment. It's just here's a very nice emotional post from a company, and here's the fact behind it. There is something so thrilling to me about brands having to scramble to delete a tweet because everybody is hating on them. So the gender pay gap bot kind of made my International Women's stay. Brands were scrambling to delete their perhaps well meaning tweets once the pay gaps at their organizations were revealed, and hopefully it caused them to reflect on why they felt the need to weigh in in the first place. Some of the tweets that ended up being deleted when you when the when the box you know retweeted them with the actual data around how crappy they are in terms of a pay gap. Some of them were so wild to begin with, like women are the fabric of what makes this sweater company run and blah blah blah. It's like some of us like, okay, keep your flowery bullshit. What are you actually paying the women who are working at your company? Like, what are your actual values? Was that your intention? Did you? Were you trying to inject a little like honesty into the conversation on social media around women and pay or like a little bit of chaos because it was a little it was a little bit like I was like, oh, this is like chaotic and I love it. Yeah, I think the focus is mainly on honesty. I think we never expected there to be so much chaos because we didn't expect it to kind of spread so wide and sort of have so many different people from around the world engaging with it. So yeah, that was really fantastic to see. But it wasn't anything that we at all anticipated. So yeah, honesty was definitely the focus. But then I will admit like the kind of seeing the chaos and fold who was just like the ice and on the cake ap it. Yeah, I'm here for a little bit of especially as everything to like brands and corporations, I'm here for a little bit of messiness, a little bit of chaos. Like yeah, if you're if you're gonna say we value women, okay, let's have to really have the conversation about you valuing women. You chose to tweet it like people can respond and especially respond with the cold hard facts of the way that women are valued within your organization. And so I think it really I think why I loved the project is that it really exposed this hypocrisy that I think that frankly, we've all just gotten used to. We've just gotten used to this idea that brands and corporations and um, you know, government agencies are going to these things that started in liberation, they're going to take that co opted give it back to us in the form of a platitude or like a shirt with a rainbow flag on it, or they change their you know icon on Twitter or whatever like that. I think we have just gotten used to and accepted that that is the way it is. And your bot, I feel like the kind of woke us up. But like we hate We don't have to accept this, we can reject this. Yeah, that's totally it. Like I've seen so many people just sort of in my own social circles say things like you know, oh, I'm just gonna like check out of social media on International Women's Day because you know, I can't cope with the bullshit, Like it's just too much to sort of get angry about anymore, because it's everywhere, you like, people don't have the energy to sort of fight back with every every single sort of empty gesture, which you know, it seems to like take advantage of like a liberation movement. Um. So, yeah, it's been really lovely to see some of the feedback that we've had of people saying that, you know, they really value it and actually it brought them like much needed both entertainment and transparency on a day when you know, you lose a bit of lose a bit of hope and start like despairing for the future because you know, despite all the you know, nice branding and you know logos on T shirts, conditions aren't really improving for any marginalized group, both in work and in wide society at the THENT. Yeah, and you know, and I think it's conditions are not improving, and I think it's an imperative to point to some of the culprits of why that is, especially when they want to talk out of both sides of their face and say, oh, we value women, but we're not actually doing that in we're saying that in words but not in deeds. You know, here in the United States there are a whole host of huge corporations that put up International Women's a post or Black History Month posts or you know, back in during the racial justice protests, were like, oh, we stand with our black employees and then turn around and give lots and lots of money to politicians who go on to champion legislation that makes our lives so much harder. I just feel like we have all gotten so used to this corporate hypocrisy that that brands its whitewash is liberation as I don't want to be celebrated by a company that is like making my life harder materially. I don't. I don't want a company like that to celebrate me. Yeah, absolutely, you know, and they shouldn't be doing those sorts of things. You know, they shouldn't be either, you know, celebrating if they're not actually following out through with you know, supportive action throughout the year. They need to sort of look at kind of what processes are that they are responsible for and can they change to you know, improve people's lives within their organization, Like what barriers are kind of people coming up against which are limiting their success, and how can they be removed because it's not enough to just sort of like wait for legislation to do it. Like, there are things which companies can do themselves, um to sort of improve the lives of um of women, of people of color, and disabled people, and they're not doing them. But they're still sort of, you know, trying to ride the ride the trend for a bit of a few likes. Really it's so empty, and I guess that's what I don't even realize this until you said it. That International Women's Day, I don't even really I just check out basically from February to the end of March UH in the United States, that's Black History Month, Women's History Month. I just don't want to see it. I don't want to see the brand. I don't want to see It's just so hollow. And it makes me sad that these days that are meant to be amplifying our voices and champion us, championing us to have just been become so co opted that it's like I'm not even excited for it. In fact, I just like tune it out. Such a shame that you know that's the way it's gone. I can because I did like a little blog post of my own kind of for my freelance business before actually launching the part, and one of the things that I wrote in there was like some pointers of, you know, for brands that are planning to do campaigns around International Women's Day and any other sort of liberation event, you know, by them taking up space in that conversation, whose voices aren't getting hurt? And that's kind of I think that's what's a bit worrying for me, is that, you know, the people that we really need to listen to, those that are struggling the most, those that you know, these days are made for like you know, trying to acknowledge their struggles and work to fix them. They're not getting hurt because all we've got is um, you know, discount codes on stocks and you know others other types of you know, reasonably meaningless efforts from companies. So yeah, really interesting that, like the way that you mentioned um, you know, how things get co opted and you know, things just get lost in the noise, And yeah, he was those were the most sort of um influence on the people that necessarily need their voices amplified on these days. Let's take a quick break utter back. So, how do we get to this place where things like Black History Month, International Women's Day, and Pride have been co opted by brands and corporations. It's viewing empty rhetoric and performative bullshit. Well, Francesca says, it has a lot to do with the rise of social media. When everyone, including brands, can easily add their voice to the converse station, they feel the need to weigh in on issues that otherwise they probably wouldn't have or shouldn't have before social media, and our liberation becomes just another online trend to jump in on, and today's consumers are much more attuned to the values of A brand study by the consumer research agency Verity found that most about of consumers want to do business with companies that take values based stances. So brands struggling up an International Women's Day tweet and doing pretty much nothing else is a lazy way to woo that audience of consumers without actually having to do anything of substance. In other words, it basically turns liberation into a quick cash grab. How do you think we got to this place where these days that were meant to be about real liberation and real solidarity have just become empty. And and how how do you think we got to a place where brands feel like it's okay to add their voice on a subject that they really don't champion in. Indeed, the reactions it's got a lot to do with, you know, how social media has grown sort of over you know, the last few years. I think that you know, prior to all brands being on like Twitter and Instagram, they wouldn't they probably wouldn't have done sort of a more traditional media campaign on these sorts of events. I think one because you know, when you're talking to the press, that sort of implies a lot more scrutiny. You've got to have more data to be able to back up your story. Yeah, because they're not just gonna print anything that's you know, poorly research, for instance. And so yeah, I think social media gave all of us, but also kind of brands a platform to just say and do whatever they want without really much scrutiny over it. And so yeah, what I think has maybe I think we've slept walked into this sort of situation where, like, you know, people's liberation is kind of celebrated by companies that aren't sort of doing anything meaningful towards it, and because it's it's trending, because you know, people talk about talk about say like um, Black History Month and with International Women's Day, Pride, they talk about all those things on social media, and you know, I think that it's often seen as a bit of an opportunity of you know, we can muscle in and kind of expand our reach if we also kind of show that that's what we're into. Um. And then I think that the second thing is that consumer habits are think are starting to shift a bit, and I think people want to buy from and work with companies who support similar values to themselves. And and I think that you know, when you know us the society says, actually, yeah, well we do believe that kind of all, all people have a right to live in you know, safety and equality, and they all have a right to thrive. So we want companies to u to kind of reflect those values too. And so but I think that that's that's not necessarily translating into Okay, we need to actually be acting on, you know, how we can promote equity within our organizations, and instead it's just like, well, people want to see that we are doing something so that they shop from us, So we're going to show them that we are, even if even if it's not true. Yeah, I think you're right. And as you were speaking, I wrote down in my notes like social liberation is not a trend, right. I think that you're exactly right that before social media, I don't think that a company that had mostly when mostly men in their leadership and the women that were there were underpaid and that their funding politicians that like make women's lives harder, would put out a press release about how they like women. It wouldn't make any sense. But social media has really made these brands feel like that they can have a voice in every conversation and should have a voice in every conversation, but maybe they really fucking shouldn't one. And then I also think that you're the data is very clear that particularly young consumers really do want to shop and spend money with organizations that have similar values. Like that's very clear, and I think these companies want that money without having to do any of the work to get that right, and so they just they say like, okay, well, young consumers that and most consumers want to spend money at organizations that also have share their values, so we'll just say we share their values, but not really share their values, you know. And I think it's such a lazy, empty way of just really getting more money. It's it's such a it's such a lazy, obvious cash grab that I find it. Yeah. I think I'm only now just realizing my detest for days like this because it just illustrates what a lazy cash cash grab it is. And I find it offensive. Yeah, totally. I think that you know, partially thanks to social media, I guess that you know, anything that is possibly worth monetizing, then the companies have found a way to monetize it. And you know that's that's not right. You know, it's you can't sort of profit from people's liberation when there are people still fighting for it. I think I was reading an interview with you with you where you said I don't want to have liberation co opt and sold back to me up by way of a smash the patriarchy T shirt, right, Like, I don't want a slogan, I don't want a T shirt. I don't want to discount code. I want liberation. I want a quality. I want inclusion. I want real things that make a tangible difference, not a fucking T shirt, not a sucking slogan. Yeah, yeah, that's that's totally it. It's you know, nice words don't really make a difference. You know, I would much rather that you know, companies held those kept those nice words themselves and instead sort of focused on, you know, what they can do. And what I really hope is that what the works that we've done with the Bath has been able to inspire companies and and just thinking like, well, we've we've ignored our problems and it's not work. So you know, maybe this is a if a kick up for bum to do something about it. Do you think the policy in the UK around transparency and the and the gender pig app like, do you think that's made at difference? Because if it's if that information data is that data is very powerful, but if it's so inaccessible, can it really do you think it's really made a difference. I don't think that it has yet. I think that it's marvelous that we've got the data there, um, but I think that the drawbacks are the fact that it's not really all that in your face, and I think that limits the impact that it's able to have. You know, like I kind of have conversations with people that didn't know it existed until we started pushing out the tweets on International Women's Day, and we've had quite a lot of questions back about like, oh, where's the data from? And you know, I think sometimes that's coming from international audiences now, so that's kind of understand all that it's um not well, the UK regulations aren't known worldwide. But you know, people that I've worked with, I like, how did you manage to get all this data? And I'm like, how do you not know it's there? Like and especially because you know, I've made no secret of kind of my um kind of politics in the types of places where I've worked, and so this is types of things that I've brought up and talked about. And I distinctly remember sort of the first year that it came in. I was working at a it was like a financial services company in their marketing department, and I saw the figures come in and they had like, I think it's about twenty two pay gap, and so I just said around the desk, like, oh, have you seeing this? We've got a twenty two percent gender pay gap, and honestly, like no one, no one seemed to care for one. I think that was potentially because there was only I was one of two women in the team. But then also it just sort of it became a bit of a dirty word, like all I was getting was like, oh, well, this is why we've got a gender pay gap, and oh it's the education system's fault, and it's like all attempts to shut down any meaningful discussion. Um. So yeah, I think that the impact of it is limited by the fact that it's not although it's publicly available, that it's not accessible. And also the regulations only require companies to declare it, they don't require like them to actually fix it. So I think that you know, if well, for them to have more of an impact, I think that the next step would be too and well one includes other types of inequality as well, especially so that we can get a handle on the ethnicity wage gap. And two, I think that we need to um, you know, legislate to force companies to act on that data. Um because you see as well, like we've got five years worth of data now and it's a lot of the time not going in the right direction. Um, you know, sometimes it's a couple of percent either way, and so you think, well, that's you know, not not too bad. It means that you're not doing anything about it, but at least it's not getting worse. More. After a quick break, let's get right back into it. Even though gender pay gap data is publicly available in the UK and thanks to Francesco's but more people are paying attention to it, it's meaningless without actual accountability. It is so easy for companies to playing away, whether paying women less or to ignore it altogether. We looked at one and kind of sports retailer and who went from having a no point three gender pay gap in and the data this year is I think about forty eight. So that's yeah, yeah, massive difference. Yeah, so that's really worrying. That's like, you know, the reason that this regulation was brought in was to sort of make companies not like act on their gap and like reduce it. But then it's just gone the complete opposite direction in some cases. Yeah, I think that really demonstrates your point that data transparency needs to be needs to have some transparency is a good start, a good first start, but unless it's couple with some kind of accountability, which I think that your bad is really kind of pushing the needle forward, and so good, good job there, but like it has to come with some kind of impetus for change. Otherwise it's just transparency. And even you know, when you're from within the company bringing that to their attention that hey, we have a big pay gap, they can just ignore it or give some other reason for it, or just frankly pretend like it didn't happen, pretend like those facts are not the reality of their company, even though they are. Yeah, and like we've had a couple of kind of responses from companies that have you know, said things like, oh, no, you know, our data rescued by the fact that it was the pandemic and we had sort of more staff absences, we had UM the Fellow scheme where like UM a lot of employees were getting their full salary. And it's just like these on justifications like yes, they may sort of their factors which contribute to it, but then it's we're moving beyond the pandemic, hopefully this year, and so now you've got to focus on pul what's next. You know, you can look back and think of all the things which you know may have contributed to your problem in the past twelve months. But that's useless if you're not also going to look at what are you going to do in the next twelve months to you know, correct for that and make sure that you know there's not a lasting economic impact specifically on women in marginalized groups beyond the pandemic. So I'm obviously here for shaming the companies that need to be shamed. Were there companies that you found from us from this bat that we're actually walking the walk as well as talking the talk where the that that bat revealed that they actually we're paying women equally in their company. Yeah, we did, actually, um, we don't actually publish a few tweets where there was equal pay and a few where there was a slight gap in favor of women, And so yeah, I think that was there definitely in the minority those um those companies. In the one and jenipe gap data from the UK government, there was seventy seven percent of companies and reported that and women's average pay is less than men's. So obviously that's that's really significant. It's a really small number that are sort of the other direction or that are equal, but like we wanted to make sure that they got highlighted as well. Like we've used the same sort of mutual text for um for both you know, where there was a big pay gap or where there was a small pay gapple where there was no pay gap, Because what we wanted to do was take all of the emotion out of it. We're just pushing out the data and then it's for like Twitter users and the general public to kind of make up their own mind. And if they see sort of a company or like a government organization or whatever that's got a equal pay, then you know, that's what we've actually done, is we've really amplified their distribution because you know, we've turned into quite a big account over a really short pit space of time. Yeah, just just personally, what is that been like for you? I know that you said that you didn't think this this would blow up the way it has, and boy has a blown up. What is it been like for you and your partner just personally seeing this thing become such an Internet sensation. It's a really incredible feeling to see that, Like so many people have been enjoying the works that we've done and have been like engaging in the data and using it to spark kind of productive conversations. That's an absolutely amazing feeling. M I think, you know, I'm only just starting to come to terms with like the impact that it's had. Like last week was absolutely chaos for me. It was like, you know, trying to just get on with them some bits of freelance work, and then you know, I'd be getting like messages from friends saying like, oh, hey, I've just seen you in UM in this news outlet, like that's incredible, and I'm like, oh cool, you know we're in the times, like that's what was not expecting that. So, yeah, it's been really difficult to sort of like keep track of UM, keep track of everything that's going on. And but at the same time, it's been so so rewarding to see like all the messages of support that we've had. And you know, I even got like an email message of someone who worked on like a project with the government when they were setting up this gender pay gap kind of service back in two thousand and seventeen, and and he said that they were having meetings with like creative agencies for like more a million pound contracts to do something with the data. And his message said that, you know, I'm so pleased that you know, you've been able to produce this because it's so much better and more effective than any of the ideas that those creative in those creative agencies pitched. And it was all sort of well, very low cost, like you know, the only money that we've put into it is you know, the our time, um kind of completely nonprofit. We've kind of had no intention of you know, ever using it for like promotion or anything like that. So yeah, it's on a shoe string budget. We've been able to produce some thing that like multimillion pound agencies could not. Apparently I love that, and I mean it's it's because you're authentic, you care about this, and you you know, I think really if attestament to what creativity and creative marketing and a little bit of you know, no how around the data can really be more effective than you know, a huge marketing a huge marketing budget and all of that. Like it really comes down to just creativity and authenticity, which I think you have in Spain. So I'm so thrilled with how people are reacting to this. I think it's so cool I guess one of my last questions for you is what's next? You have plans to make more bats, like what can we expect? So yeah, I would absolutely love to be able to like copy this concept for like other sort of liberation events throughout the year when and we see a lot of this performative marketing come through. So you know, we've talked about and we talked about Pride, we talked about and Black History months and our issue is that we don't have data to kind of to do that yet. But we have had a couple of people get in touch with some potential data sources that we're we're looking into, and so yeah, hopefully over the next twelve months we will be able to find a way to kind of be able to highlight the truth behind the supportive messages on other issues. And greenwashing is another one we've got. We've had sort of a message from a like environmental charity in the UK and interested in kind of potentially working together too and do something to highlight what's going on, what what companies are really doing for the environment, despite you know, they'll claim that they're really really sustainable and of course you know it's rarely possible to operate a like for profit business in a truly sustainable way, and I feel like, you know, there's a lot of companies trying to pretend that that isn't the case. So yeah, if we were able to kind of work with them to get some data and around like Cobb admissions for instance, and we'd love to be able to replicate it for rewashing too. I think a lot of companies are gonna have to make sure their social media teams are ready to go because especially around greenwashing, because that's gonna be a lot of deleted tweets. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech, I just want to say Hi. You can reach us at Hello at tang godi dot com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tang godi dot com. There Are No Girls on the Internet was created by me Bridget Tod. It's a production of iHeart Radio and Unboss creative Jonathan Strickland as our executive producer. Ary Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Tod. If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts for more podcasts from iHeart Radio check out the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. And then I'm have been home with And then I'm have been home with

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