Elon Musk is buying Twitter. Here’s what it means for marginalized folks on

Published Apr 27, 2022, 12:57 AM

In this EMERGENCY EPISODE, Bridget sits down with producer Michael to discuss the news that Twitter’s board accepted billionaire Elon Musk’s 44 billion dollar bid to buy the social media platform and what it means for traditionally marginalized users. 

 

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I believe in us black folks, women, queer folks, we will always find a way to make something out of nothing. I know, whether it's on Twitter someplace else, I know that our voices will endure because our voices can't be silenced and they're too powerful. There are No Girls on the Internet. As a production of I Heart Radio and Unbossed Creative, I'm Bridget Todd and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. So we were all ready to go live It's an episode today, but we had a little breaking news on Monday that I really wanted to talk to you all about. So this is gonna be a little bit of a different episode after much back and forth. Better accept a billionaire tesla and Space ex bounder Elon Musk's forty four billion dollar bid to buy and take over Twitter, subject to a shareholder vote following Twitter's boards approval, and the somebody who makes a podcast about the Internet and social media and technology works to make social media platforms safer, specifically for marginalized people. And it's also just someone who uses Twitter. I have a lot of thoughts and feelings. First, you should know that Twitter is kind of a mess for people who are not straight white CIS men. Ultra Violet, the gender justice organization where I work with a great team of campaigners to try to build a more feminist internet, found that a third of women under the age of thirty five and seventy of LGBTQ adults report being harassed online, and of women compared with forty eight percent of men, characterize online harassment as a major problem. And Anesty International found that black women were eighty five percent and women of color in general were thirty four percent more likely than white women to be targeted for online abuse. So, yeah, it's a real problem, and I gotta say I do not have a ton of confidence and Elon Musk's ability, intention, or frankly desire to correct any of this based on his track record. So let's take a look at that track record. Tesla has faced lawsuits from current and former staff for sexual harassment and racism. Women workers at Tesla faced nightmarish conditions of rampant sexual harassment, according to lawsuits, and a federal jury in San Francisco ordered Tesla to pay O N. Diaz, a black former employee, one hundred and thirty six point nine million dollars because of the racial harassment that he faced there. The state of California is currently suing Tesla for allegedly trying to silence thousands of black workers who complained about dealing with racism while working at Tesla. One especially heartbreaking account from a number of black employees reports that they were moved to the back of the plant whenever Musk would visit the facility. So what does all this mean for women, people of color and LGBTQ folks on Twitter. I sat down with my producer Michael to discuss how you feel about this Twitter situation. What were your initial thoughts about Elon Musk buying Twitter? So I have to say I kind of got the whole Elon Musk buying Twitter thing wrong. When I first started hearing reports that he was thinking about buying Twitter, I thought, for shore, Elon Musk just really wanted that to be something that was in a couple of rounds of news cycles. I did not think he was actually going to buy Twitter. I was so convinced that this was just gonna be something you talked a big game about, just like other big things that he's talked about, like donating money to the u N to end world hunger, which he never did, even though he promised that he would. And I was wrong. You know, I really thought this was just going to be talk from a billionaire to show that he could buy it if you wanted to, and I was incorrect. What was going on in your life when you first got on Twitter. I know that you are pretty prolific on there, You've been on it for a while. What was what was that early experience, like, Oh, the early days of Twitter was such a different world. It was really fun. I don't think we knew what it was. Um. I there's a kind of phenomenon on Twitter where black folks find each other and connect over jokes and communal laughter and shared experiences. I think there were just a lot of opportunities for joy in the early days of Twitter that I don't think I've really seen a lot of since those early days, Like the day that those two lamas got loose, Lamas on the loose, where everyone was tracking those lamas, and then you know, the days of the dress. My favorite ever day on Twitter is the day that a I think it was Yahoo News tweeted about Trump wanting to have a bigger navy, but he they accidentally had a typo and they used the N word N word navy and it was a great day for jokes on Twitter. It was it was just really fun and it was it felt low steaks. I think it felt a lot lower stakes, and it's felt in the last three or four or five years for sure. Yeah. Uh, but you're still on there. So what what role would you say Twitter plays in your life now? Oh? I am on Twitter now purely because I sort of have to be. I think, Um, it's not something that I really enjoy being on, but I feel that at this point in my career, I have to be there to find It's a it's a it is a quick way to find out what's happening in the news and what's happening in the world around you, what's happening with elected officials and world leaders. I feel like it's sort of I'm there kind of by necessity, not for not for the same kind of like recreation or a reverence or community building that once was so such a big part of the experience of being there. You know, my my time there is much more. I tweet what I gotta tweet. I put it out there. If anybody has anything to say about it. I probably am not going to see the replies. I'm not hanging out in Twitter trying to have conversation and engage because frankly, it's just not that pleasant of a place to do that. It just doesn't feel like a fun place to spend time in that way, and everything, even low stakes things on Twitter feel very high stakes. One thing I find myself doing is intentionally engaging in like very low stakes Twitter conversations, specifically to try to like recapture some of that old feeling of what it felt like when you could actually engage with people on Twitter about things that you maybe didn't agree with. Somebody tweeted something recently that was, um, what's your cancellable coffee opinion? And I was like, Oh, people who drink black coffee don't actually like the taste of black coffee. They're just trying to look grown up. They're just pretending to like the taste of black coffee. And it was actually very fun to have people kind of get gently spicy with me about not agreeing with my strongly held but very low stakes opinion. And it's being able to engage in that way. We don't really get a lot of opportunities on Twitter. It feels like to have those kinds of low stakes back and forth this with people, but that used to be the norm. Yeah, it can feel very high stakes. Uh, and it's it's nice that you got out of it fairly unscathed with your clearly incorrect opinion about black coffee. Okay, I know you drink your coffee black. I know that you don't actually really like it. I've seen you put cream in it. Sometimes we don't have to get this isn't you know what? You're canceled? All right, Well, just like everybody else who's canceled, I'm gonna go on talking and asking some more questions. Let's say a quick break center back. One of the absolute best things about Twitter will always be black Twitter. It's one of my favorite ways that we show up online. And with Elon Musk taking over, I'm a little worried. In a piece for The l A Times, Erica D. Smith spoke to Dr Meredith Clark, who studies black cultural movements on social media like black Twitter. Dr Clark said, I don't think you're going to see the same sort of replication of a Twitter like climate or black Twitter on another platform. I don't think you'll ever get that lightning in a bottle back. But I do think that you'll see black people doing what we've always done, and that is bend communication and other technologies to our needs and our will and find ways to thrive in those various areas of the Internet. So what is black Twitter is? Okay, I'm so glad you asked. So this was? This was like what it's still it's still. I don't want to make it seem like a thing of yesteryear, because it's still very much a part of the experience on Twitter. But black Twitter was this beautiful collaborative vibe on Twitter where black folks really found each other and and connected over just the shared experience of being black folks. And you know, blackness is so rich, it's so multifaceted. Being black is not a monolith. But those differ princes really allowed us to connect on Twitter in this completely interesting, exciting new way. And honestly, I think it's not surprising that there was. There wasn't like black Facebook necessarily or black Instagram. Certainly, there are lots of black users doing amazing stuff and building amazing communities on those platforms. I don't want to suggest that that's not happening. But Twitter is such an instantaneous kind of platform that you can be engaging in real time in this way that feels sort of collective. And it just felt like, you know, the call and response ethos that I feel like it's so part and parcel to our experiences, and so, yeah, it just was. It just was this like very interesting, exciting, collaborative network of black folks bonding over just the experience of blackness. And so I think a lot of times when we talk about what the black experiences, we're talking about trauma and hard stuff, and that's definitely part of it. But black Twitter is also about connecting over jokes, over creativity, over yeah, just the shared joy of bathing in our and our identities, bathing in our blackness over Twitter. So how do you think that might change now that Elon Musk has bought Twitter? And why do you think that? I am concerned? I will say this, I've had a lot of feelings over the last I don't know, six hours or so since the announcement happened. If I sound exhausted, it's because of that announcement. I know that Elon Musk does not have a great track record when it comes to amplifying, protecting, supporting, championing marginalized voices. I'm an optimist when it comes technology and two platforms through and through. I would not make this podcast if I was not an optimist when it came to technology. But I can't ignore the facts that speak for themselves. I believe that Elon Musk oversaw an environment at Tesla that was sexist, that was racist. This is not me saying this, Courts have agreed, right, And so I've heard reports where black Tesla employees talked about how when Elon Musk would personally come to Tesla, they knew that they had to physically hide, physically get to the back because he did he was so disgusted to see black faces in his factories. And so all of that tells me that this is someone that maybe cannot be trusted to have the kind of intentionality that would be necessary to foster marginalized voices on the platform. And already, Twitter, we know, has a lot of work to do in terms of championing those voices. And I think it's so sad because, as I explained before, we are the lfeblood of what makes social media great like like we are black creativity, black labor, black talent, black hustle, black grit. What would any social media platform be like without us? And not just black folks, black folks, trans folks, queer folks, all of us. What would a social media look like without us? It would be nothing. We fuel it. I want to make sure that the people who run these platforms actually see that and are intentional about making sure that that is fostered, because it's real. It's it's we have a real We have really materially benefited these platforms. And I just feel like the idea of being asked to show up on a platform owned and operated by someone who has proven himself to not have a great track record when it comes to things like race and gender, I feel like it's difficult to imagine me showing up with the kind of joy and creativity and spark that we once had. And that's not to say that, you know, Twitter has had its problems, but I just have a real issue with someone like Elon Musk buying Twitter almost as a lark. And and I also want to say that I believe, really, really deeply in the power of people who are traditionally marginalized, like black folks, we are so skilled at being given the worst and making something out of it, making lemonade out of lemons, right, And so when you think about the spaces that we have really had to fight to carve out for ourselves on platforms like Twitter, that is because of black creativity and black hustle and black grit and needing to carve out these spaces. And so, you know, I don't know. I don't. All that is to say, I don't think that one person, Elon Musk, is stronger than all of our creativity and voices combined and that spirit that we have to carve out our spaces, which we've always done. We did it before and we'll always keep doing it. So I mean, I don't know. I really I'm not sure. I'm concerned. I'm very concerned about how this will bode for traditionally marginalized people who are already marginalized on Twitter. But I also know that I believe in us. I truly believe in the power of our spirit and ingenuity to always be there carving out those spaces and and really taking the space that we need to show up on the way that we want. I guess it speaks to the resilience of of all humanity, but have like fall to take space and make space when it's not given. And it's impressive and powerful, but it's also got to be so frustrating and tiring, and uh, you know, why does it have to be that way? Like, why does it have to be such a bite? And you you wrote a really thoughtful thread earlier today about the likely consequences of a new Twitter without community standards, and that would be a more dangerous and hostile place for marginalized people, especially women of color, who are often targets of coordinated attacks designed to silence them. Um. And the comments I saw a bunch of trolls saying things like, oh, if you don't like free speech, just say so, and it was such a reductionist comment. Um. But so I just wanted to ask you, like, you know, how do community standards protect free speech? So I think the entire conversation about free speech, we're having the wrong conversation, right, Like, when we talk about free speech, we're talking about whether governments can suppress people's speech, like, and we do have a a real free speech problem in this country, full stop. But I think the way that we have allowed the idea of free speech to be debated. When we talk about Twitter moderation, I think is really doing it a disservice. However, if we're going to talk about free speech on platforms like Twitter, I think that when we talk about things like content moderation, we should also be clear that we're talking about all of the traditionally marginalized folks who have been pushed out of social media because of content lacks content moderation standards, or poorly applied content moderation standards, or not transparent content moderation standards. It's not often white conservative men who are being pushed out of these spaces. It is people who are traditionally marginalized, is right. It's black women, it's sex workers, it's activists. Those are the people who are being pushed out of these places when content moderation is badly applied, is misapplied, is applied without transparency. And so I really want to change the conversation when we have when we talk about free speech on platforms, I want to make sure that we're also including all of these marginalized people who we have just decided don't deserve free speech on platforms and that that they're not going there, their stories are not going to be part of what we talked about when we talk about free speech. And so I think that's one of the traps of it when we allow this idea of quote free speech to be the thing that animates our conversations about social media platforms. I just I just want to change the conversation entirely. And by the way Elon Musk talks about how he's this free speech absolutist bullshit. Tell that to the employees of Tesla that he has fired for talking critically about Tesla. Tell that to the employees that he has cracked down on for talking about things like unionization. This idea that he is some big champion of free speech or free speech absolutist, that's a farce. He would love it if that was the dominant thing that people talked about about him, because it creates this false binary where he is on one side and he is a champion of free speech and everybody else on the other side and they are enemies of free speech. And that is not not even just an oversimplification, it's just not true. But it is such a self serving framing that I can understand that that's why that's the framing that he always leans back on and his supporters always lean back on. But just because it's convenient doesn't make it accurate, and it is inaccurate. Khle. Yeah, I know you do a lot of work in platform accountability, often focusing on Twitter in particular. What does this do change in ownership mean for that work? Tb D. You know, I if I were working at Twitter, I would say, when we announced this this change, people are user base, are gonna have questions. I would have been ready with some answers to those questions of what this would look like, what this means for you as a user. The fact that they the only information that we got was these like very vague statements from Musque saying like, oh, I'm gonna have free speech for Twitter unless it's spam. Well, who decides what spam and what's not? How will that be moderated? Like the way the way that it only leans on vagaries and no specifics. I think it tells you all you need to know about the way that the people in power at Twitter feel about us, their users. I don't feel like they feel like they was any kind of answers or accountability or transparency. And I want to be very clear, we're talking about a platform where world leaders put out statements, where elected officials put out statements. When I needed to figure out where to go to get a COVID test, I checked my local DC mayor's Twitter account to get that information. We need to acknowledge the ways that Twitter really does function as a kind of public utility, and given that, they can't be so callous with these kinds of changes without being a little bit accountable to us, the people who use them. And I think it's very clear that they don't feel they need to be accountable to us. Yeah. Absolutely, I mean that's like Elon Musk's whole thing. He's not accountable to anyone. He just does his I don't think he's rich and powerful enough to do that, And it seems like so many of his like fans just love that about it. As much as I am worried about the changes that are to come for marginalized people on Twitter, I also just like want to step back and say, isn't it kind of messed up that a billionaire can spend forty four billion dollars to buy one of our largest communication platforms just on a lark, just for fun, Like, isn't that a problem? Like, like I really feel that that illustrates that something is sort of deeply wrong when that can happen, and that and that we don't even know you know what it's what what what the impact will be? And I also think like the way that so many people, particularly marginalized people, have had to adapt to use things like Twitter to build community, to build movements, Like think about all the movements that marginalized people have built using Twitter in the last ten years. Black Lives Matter was was born from from platforms like Twitter. Me Too was born from platforms like Twitter. Right, the concept of black girl magic born on platforms like Twitter. I think that we really have to see the way that one person being in charge of this kind of maybe without even really thinking it through, can really have a deep and lasting impact on our ability to create change and community going forward. More after a quick break, I know firsthand that navigating are connected digital lives also comes with navigating all kinds of complicated issues like, for instance, what do you do if you were going through a depressive episode and completely stop answering emails? What's the etiquette around logging back on and replying to them super late? Or is it okay to not accept your boss or co workers friend request on social media? Now on There Are No Girls on the Internet all new newsletter. Not only can you get more Internet insights, but we will be weighing in answering your Internet questions and conundrums. So subscribe to There Are No Girls on the Internet's newsletter at tangoti dot com slash newsletter. And if you want to support the podcast, thank you so much, check out our online store at tangoti dot com slash store. Let's get right back into it. So what sort of things are you gonna be looking out for as this transition takes place? You know, it is like indicators of which way it's going to go. Well, the biggest thing that people are talking about right now is whether or not Trump will be reinstated. I want to make this really clear. Just today, Trump said that even if Elon Musk invited him back to Twitter, he would not come back. I want to say that loud and clear. That he said that on Monday a two. So if he ever does come back, you just remember that that he said that he even if he was allowed to come back, he would never come back, So we don't have to worry about it, because I mean it's not like lies, so that he lies or anything. So and I think, like I'm really looking out for that because I think as people really saw what when when when Trump was the platform from Twitter, it really took a lot of his power away. And we saw the ways that Twitter as a platform was so useful to his rise, so useful to him being able to spread what we know were violent conspiracy theories and lies and chip away at trust in our democratic process. And so if Elon Musk welcomes Trump back, I think it's entirely possible that will help Trump win reelection. And so it's like things like this, it's like, we really need to think about what could be the consequences of this, you know, I also have you know already. I think the a d L put out a report to is today where they were talking about how extremists and people who have been d platformed from Twitter for being too extreme or for spreading conspiracy theories or for spreading violent rhetoric. They're ecstatic. They're so happy. They're like, oh, maybe I'll be able to come back. They're going to reinstate me. But I think that that is really I mean, it sounds really scary, But I'm so interested to see how it shakes out, because, as we know platforms like this, Whenever extremists and bad actors are like, oh, we're gonna go start our own social media platform at Trump Social or at a gab or whatever, it never really takes off because you can't have a platform that's just full of trolls and bad actors. Right. Trolls need somebody to troll. It's not fun for them unless there's people who don't want to be bothered that they can bother. That's like a big part of it. And so if all of these people come flooding back to Twitter and people who don't want to be bothered stop showing up there as much, I'm really curious to see what that will do to Twitter, because you know, bad actors need someone to bother and harass in order for it to be sustainable for them. So are you hopeful? I will always be hopeful about you know. I I believe in the power of the Internet, the power of social media, and the power of people who want to be there to be forces of good to make those spaces good. Am I hopeful? Yeah? I believe in us. I believe that black folks, women, queer folks, we will always find a way to make something out of nothing. We will always find a way to make a way out of no way. And so I am hopeful in that. I know that this isn't whether it's on Twitter someplace else where wherever. I know that our voices will endure because our voices can't be silenced. They're too powerful. One billionaire South African cannot drown out our voices, even though he probably wishes that he could. Him and his billions of dollars will never be stronger than us and our voices. And I'm hopeful in that. I believe in that. Okay, so maybe you listen to that whole thing and you're thinking, who cares what happens on Twitter? Well, what happens on Twitter is not just the tech issue. Charactering things like harassment and disinformation on Twitter is a racial and gender justice issue. But it's also a democracy issue, because we know that if we're going to have a functioning democracy, a democracy where we can make meaningful progress on some of the biggest issues facing us, like healthcare, of voting rights, abortion rights, and climate justice. We need to have a functioning digital media landscape where everyone can fully participate. Without that, there's just no hope and we cannot do this while our digital platforms are cesspools of disinformation based in sexism, racism, misogyny, and hate. So we already know that disinformation and online harassment disproportionately target and impact people from underrepresentative backgrounds. But what does this really look like? Well, it looks like existing fractures intentions in our communities being exploited. It looks like lies about our bodies being codified into dangerous laws. It looks like racist, sexist lies about women in politics, and having a digital media ecosystem ready made to amplify and lind credibility to those lies, lies that we know undermine all women of color. And let's keep it real. Black women are overwhelmingly targeted for disinformation and online harassment campaigns, and the research makes it very clear that this persistent threat has a silencing effect on all of us. It pushes us even further into the margins. It keeps us from doing things like running for office or even just expressing our opinions online. It undermines but trust at our leadership. Now, the goal of this kind of thing is to get us to check out of our democracy and to just shut up. And we cannot allow this because increasing civic participation is a crucial step to advancing all of our issues and restoring a functioning democracy, and we cannot have that if we don't have digital media platforms in landscapes for all of us, including those of us who are tradicially marginalized, can show up safely. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech, or just want to say hi. You can reach us at Hello at tangodi dot com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangodi dot com. There Are No Girls on the Internet was created by me Bridgetad. It's a production of I Heart Radio and Unboss creative Jonathan Strickland as our executive producer. Terry Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridgetad. If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, check out the I Made You app Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts, m

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