The better we understand ourselves, the better we can relate to our children—and the better our relationships with our grandchildren. Emily talks with author and counselor Beth Booram about the Enneagram, a great tool for self-knowledge, and the challenges of transitioning from parent to grand. We also hear from Caitlin, a young mom who is working a parallel transition with her kids’ grandparents (that is, her own mom and dad). We start the episode with another TGL production meeting, and you’re invited to the conversation on what’s next for Emily and her producer/husband Mike.

Beth Booram’s retreat center is Fall Creek Abbey; more info here.

"The Road Back To You," which both guests mention, is a book and a podcast by Ian Morgan Cron and Suzanne Stabile.