Oral Sessions gets Xtreme with the arrival of Amy Dumas, aka WWE Hall of Famer Lita. The trailblazing Superstar reconnects with Renee to discuss their Area 51 trip, favorite conspiracy theories, and how Lita dealt with sexist double-standards during one of the most infamous angles in wrestling history.
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Just go to shopify dot com slash sesh all lower case for a free fourteen day trial and get full access to shopify his entire suite of features. Grow your business with Shopify today. Go to shopify dot com slash sesh. That's s E s H right now shopify dot com slash sesh. And we're live here outside the Perez family home, just waiting for the And there they go, almost on time. This morning. Mom is coming out the front door strong with a double arm kid carry. Looks like dad has the bags. Daughter is bringing up the rear. Oh but the diaper bag wasn't closed. Diapers and toys are everywhere. Oh but mom has just nailed the perfect car seat buckle for the toddler. And now the eldest daughter, who looks to be about nine or ten, has secured herself in the booster seat, add SIPs some bad clothes and they're off. But looks like Mom doesn't realize her coffee cup is still on the roof of the car. And there it goes. Oh, that's a shame that mug was a fan favorite. Don't sweat the small stuff, just nail the big stuff, like making sure your kids are buckled correctly in the right seat for their agent's eyes. Learn more n h t s a dot gov slash the Right Seat visits dot gov slash the Right Seat. Brought to you by Nitza and the ad Council. Look for your children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest. It's a storybook world for them. You look and see a tree. They see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky. They see treasuring pebbles, They see a windy path that could lead to adventure, and they see you. They're fearless. Guide. Is this fascinating world? Find a forest near you and start exploring and discover the forest dot Org brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the ad Council. Oral Session is brought to you by Fan Duel. It's never been easier to play fantasy on Fan Duel, whether you love basketball, golf, soccer, or any other fantasy sport. There's a contest for every fan Fan Duel more ways to win. Do I have another WWWEE Hall of Famer on the show? You better freaking belief that I do? Um, she is a close personal friend of mine. None other then leta there's actually lead a week here on Oral Sessions. I really like the way that we've set this up on I'm on maternity leave to like have guests on but then also just have them take over for the week. I get to have them on, then they get to come on and they get to do their own thing whatever they want, which I love. It's been really fun for me. I really really enjoy it, and hopefully you guys have enjoyed it. Break it up a little bit. You know, you don't need to hear me all the time. It's last to hear other people. Here's some other interviews, your other perspectives. But anyways, we'll get into to Leda's episode when she takes over. That is gonna be dropping later in the week. But today it is me and Leda, Me and Amy Duma. I never know if I should call people by their their work name or their shoot name, brother um, But yeah, we've got Lead on the show. We talk, yeah, just all things Lead about her fascinating career, about who she is as a person, what makes her tick. This woman has many, many layers. She's an absolute badass. She's someone that you just like enjoy spending time. But I think you walk away feeling like you've learned more about the universe when you spend time with Amy. She's the best. So let's just get into it here. She is Amy Duma. Coming into this, I was like wait, because I obviously never call you Leda and I was like, am I supposed to do that? Here? What do you prefer for these kind of situations? I think that at this point I've been leading my entire adult life, and as much as it took me a minute to even respond to it, you know, when I was just the name was just bestowed upon me and they would be calling my name down the hall and then I'd be like, oh me, yeah, But now it's been my whole adult life. So Amy, Alita almost sound they just sounds like you're saying the same thing to me at this point, respond to all um. I always remember doing kickoff panels with you, and I remember calling you Amy on air one time and I was like, oh no, I've done it. That's like the quintessential error of like oh shit, panic back pedal. I mean, who are you? What? Wait? What did I say me? It's funny that you feel like you've said something taboo where it's just like it's your name, Although it would be weird if you were watching Friends and somebody was like, so Jen, yeah, took me out, took me out of the moment. I was there, well done, not what I needed Um, it's very funny doing like doing this show. I love doing this show. I love being able to interview people and just like hang out and shoot the ship for a bit. But he's always very funny, and I feel like I get in my head a lot when I'm interviewing like my friends, I'm like, what am I going to talk to her about? There's so many different things. Whether we cover your career, we cover real life things, so who knows where this journey is gonna take us. I feel the same. It was like, fifteen minutes before we were going to get on, I was like, Oh, it's like a thing like I'm not just like, oh, I'm gonna chat with Renee in fifteen minutes. Like maybe a lash, maybe a lip lash too. I went for a lash today. It felt right. I noticed, like you have to do less with a lash. That's the key. And also, my eyelashes never actually stay up with mascara. So give a girl a lash and just call it a day. Um, Okay, here's where I want to start talking about things. I would like to get into some alien conversations with you. Where did your love of our little gray friends come from? We're green? Depending on who you ask, sure. I mean they're usually just called like grays, aren't they. That's just one subset of potential alien culture. But no, so I think that it originated in Kitch, Like I love Kitch culture, like like give me a roadside at Traction, give me like we're in on this kind of camp be you know, like he was big adventure pis playhouse, like sign me up. So I got into it from Kitch culture and like Roadside Americana. But then every time I kind of something interests me, I have to then know everything about it. So while that was my interest, I was like, well, why is this the universal icon? Like the big head, the big eyes, the kind of the shape of the head smaller, and like where does who decided that? And everything? And I had to figure you know, just just research, just some leisure reading. So where do you stand on your belief civilians. I'm more enjoy the possibility that something is out there and could be out there, And for me, that's just it's fun. It doesn't feel scary, it doesn't feel crazy. It's a little scary for me, it just feels fun. Like I'm like kind of like uh proven but sharks sharks, I'm just like I respect a shark. I would I would like to see one like that sounds fun When we were just talking about that the time you and I obviously not just on this podcast but in real life having a conversation about the time that we're in Miami and we rented jet skis and we were in that brackish water, and I kept thinking of those like gigantic terror I can't remember what kind of shark it is, but they were sharks that were living in the brackish water, and I could not stop thinking about that every time we jumped off the jet skills, like this is it. This is going to be the moment that I snatched up by one of those giant ass sharks, and that'll be it. Would you rather be abducted by an alien or not attacked? Because that's like a known faith, but like see one that maybe you don't know what's gonna happen. Is you hungry as you not? Are you gonna get back on your jet ski and time like like see a shark in close proximity or be abducted by alien? I'm gonna go aliens because it's a better story to tell. Assuming that I land back on Earth, and we'll see what kind of um physical in what state human like, what kind of psychological damage has been done to this point if they kept your clothes or up, they can keep my clothes. I'm worried about where probes are going. I'm worried about what those memories are. But then also trying to convince people like, no, I'm not nuts. I was legit abducted by aliens. What are some of your alien sources? Because there's so many great movies, there's a bunch of great books. What are like some of your quintessential alien content? Reads, watches, listens. We actually, I think started to watch was a Fire in the Sky. I'm not sure we did. We did. Yeah, the guide that was abducted that the movie is based on. His name is Travis, not Barker, but that's the name that popped in my head. Uh no, Travis somebody. But I interviewed him for one of my UFO shows and he kind of struggled with that. He was like, part of it's like I want people to belie even me, but then the other part is like or option B is like don't ask me about it at all. I'll just do my thing live my life. You can believe or not, because I know what happened to me. Yeah, and you know because there was another there was an alien book that I read, God of course, and I'm gonna drop a blank on it. I should have obviously looked this up before. Munion. Yes, it's Communion scary, right, It's really scary because that guy is like, he is an educated man, he's an author with like a great backstory, like he's he's a legit man of the world. And he tells his story about being abducted in Upstate New York with his like his wife and his family, friends or like another couple or whatever. Like, I don't know how you can read that and not lean into it a little bit, big ship, man, this is a possibility. Well and then that okay, so then that begs question of like I mean, either way, if you were attacked by a shark or adducted by aliens, that is going to be your defining moment. And like, but but now you have to be like that girl got abducted by aliens, you know, like you're you're not You're not you now now you're just like oh that girl that that was like going on all the podcast circuit talking about her alien abduction. Yeah, it's it's wild. I mean, because it's one thing, like to have like a ghost story, but to have an alien story is another situation. I actually just recently saw UM Joe Rogan was posting about a new footage that I think it was a Navy had just released of the like triangle shaped. Did you see that? It was like off the coast of California somewhere. Yeah, I like that. The Pentagon just released the information like smacked out in the middle of the pandemic. They're like, well, you're fearing for your life and just trying to maintain your community around you from not also dying. We we know there's aliens. Like it was just like, let's just slide that in there while there's government chaos and m the pandemic, expose everything. We're already down there. Let's get down to the nitty gritty. Let's wait out the week. If you're already stressed and can't handle life, there you go. Here's this. UM. I had a blast though the time that you and I went out to Area fifty one. We drove out there and we went to the like what's the mailbox deal? That we went to area of Area fifty one. Like mind, you don't put us on any lists. We did not go into Area fifty one. No, we weren't allowed in the thing. We just kind of like drove around it. We sculped out. This was a scene. We went to the Little Alien, which is adorable. We got our alien jerky, and then the it's the black mail box. So that's a meeting point for um for upologists. So meet me at the black Mailbox because there's literally nothing around there and it's the only marker my favorite was. So we went out there and it was maybe I don't know. Almost a year later I went out for my show and your picture you had left a picture for the aliens of you and John, and it was there. I don't think I ever told John that I did that, because he'd probably be piste and be like, are you trying to get Like he'd think he'd think I was like conjuring them, trying to like send out the vibes that I come get us next. So I think there's like some conjuring involved with ghosts, but I don't know that there's conjuring involved with aliens. It's just like it's just like you roll and you don't. Let's talk about the show that you were doing, because you started doing a show and what you would like bop around to different like it was all alien based, so it's called the U Folks Show. But then you know, as people are wanting to get more into the deep dive scientific and experience, I also wanted to lean into the kitch of it. So we went we went to Roswell, Like there's a there's a museum, there's but there's a gift shop after gift shops, and it's just like, I mean, I just approach it with like lightness and fun and retain a few facts along the way that that may lead to some late night deep dives later. My my primary interest is um, just like I'm on board, I'm on board with a parade, I'm on board with a costume, I'm on board with like an activity. So that's like where I come from on that. It's hard for me because that's I mean, that is walking It's not walking a fine line. It's kind of like protecting yourself from becoming a crazy person that just wants to be obsessed with the conspiracy theories and then being that guy. But it is fun to lean into that ship. Like I love a good conspiracy theory. I love having those conversations about like wait, did that really happen? It can drive you insane though, because there's not going to be proof, or there is gonna be so much proof yet it's not widely agreed upon, so it's like what do you do? It's like trying to decipher the news where it's like some people are giving you this information, other people are giving you this Which side do you sit on? Yeah, it's so good for you? Does it make you grow boobs? Or is it like bad for you? You know, it's like for everything is like get bloba, like good for your does it make you lose your memory? We don't really know. There's gonna be compelling arguments for both. So it's like we just don't know anything. It's the bottom line, we don't know anything because it news and information changes every third seconds. Um, what are some other conspiracy theories that you enjoy? I've taken a step back from them because it with our government and the last ship show of the four years, like it was very mentally taxing that I was like, I don't need to be thinking about other evil, nefarious things that are possibly going on, because right here on the surface, I have plenty to deal with and I'm not happy about it. So I don't need something else to be um like you could become a prepper before you know it. No, it's true, and I think, and I will say, I'm sure that there was a lot of people. I mean, honestly myself included that once the world kind of started to shut down. It's like ship, I can't even buy flower if I wanted to make my own bread. I can't buy toilet paper, I can't get like things to clean my house. And you'd be like, oh my god, all these preppers are sitting back going I told you so. I've been saying this this whole time that I mean, we all kind of walked into that one. I will say, the pandemic has changed me in a way that you know, my motto for the pandemic, which we're still in by the way, A lot of people don't like to acknowledge that, but let's get through the day, keep me and my community and those around me safe like that, you know, and and anything else I accomplished on top of that is a bonus. And so that was just my like a survival technique. Otherwise, it was just very overwhelming because it was so many things I never thought would happen or had given any thought too, that we're now undeniably in my face. Yeah, I mean once that harsh reality kind of crumbled in on all of us. I think we've all lived this life of feeling like, to a degree, just somewhat protected of like there's no way that could happen this day and age, there's no way we're gonna end up in a situation like we would never would never even cross our minds because we all live such I mean depend everyone from whatever skill you're living on, lives like a certain amount of like luxury, especially in like America. I guess there's like different scales of at but you never think like, oh my got an entire pandemic. People are going to have jobs, people are going to be sick and dying, and like it's totally spiraled out of our control. On a much more luxurious level of somebody that's used to jet setting and being like, oh that looks cool. I want to go there. I want to see that I have this gig, you know, all over and my routine was not to have a routine, but to be forced to like, all right, Groundhog day, get up, go work out in the garden, make dinner, watch a movie, repeat. Were you doing other things during this past year too, to kind of just like clear your head and put you in like a better mind space. My garden girl, Like I've never been a gardener because I've troubled. I'm like it will die by the time I come back. Just no interest. I could appreciate a nice plant, but just and so I just took over this community garden area and would spend like eight hours a day out there just and you know, it's just there is something. Yeah, it's like hippie dippie, but just like touching the ground and touch like with the dirt with your hands and everything that that it kind of is calming. That and being at the ocean, you know, I would try to surf, and the surfing has always been and being in or near the ocean has always been my like it's okay, you know, and just something's bigger than I am and I'm not in control here, and you know, just kind of like sending out is like watching the watching the waves has always done that for me. I feel like the garden stuff because I'm going through a gardening phase right now. I feel like everyone kind of hits it at a certain point. You're like, I just want to plant some of my own ship, whether it's having like a herb garden, or having some fresh tomatoes or just keeping a fucking daisy alive. But it's really hard to do in the desert as well. And I just found this really great shop in Las Vegas and I bought gardening que cards because I kill everything. So I'm like, I need to do the research now so that my next trip will be more successful, because it's been a disaster to this point. So this was like an already existing just shambles up a garden, just like wild Space. And so that was my technique was see what's thriving and help it thrive, as opposed to like I want this plant or I like the way this looks. It's like again, I'm not in charge. Nature is in charge, and let me like work with what you got going on here. 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They could be worth up to five thousand books. Do it, Noon, Waight. Use the psychology to help people everywhere learn about their eating habits. Eating is my love language. Yep, sure as I say yes to seconds out of guilt, it's hard to say no to Aunt Jenny's banana pudding. Wait, oh, fog. Eating happens to everybody, what we know. It can be a lot to take in, but with the help of Noon Weight, you'll learn the psychology behind your eating habits, how to change them, and get closer to reaching your weight laws goals. Sign up at noon dot com. Adoption of teams from foster care is a topic not enough people know about, and we're here to change that. I'm April Dinuity, host of the new podcast Navigating Adoption, presented by a adopt us Kids. Each episode brings you compelling, real life adoption stories told by the families that lived them, with commentary from experts. Visit adopt us Kids dot org, slash podcast, or subscribe to Navigating Adoption presented by adopt Us Kids, brought to you by the U S Department of Health and Human Services, Administration for Children and Families, and the ad Council. Look for your children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest. It's a storybook world for them. You look and see a tree. They see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky. They see treasure and pebbles. They see a windy path that could lead to adventure, and they see you. They're fearless. Guide. Is this fascinating world? Find a forest near you and start exploring it. Discover the forest dot org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the AD Council. Each location restriction supply. See fandwel dot com for terms and conditions. How much of wrestling are you watching these days? Are you keeping eyes on things? I'll go in phases. Um and I had a very hard time started the pandemic. When it was like sound stage wrestling. I was like, this is not I can't do this, you know. Um. I felt bad for people that I knew that were you know, I don't know if they felt bad. They could have been perfectly fine to do it, but I was just like, I don't want this doesn't for me, Like this isn't the craft that I love, right, So that was really difficult. Then when they started doing the you know, the virtual fans and then having some some fans over at a w and you know, I would start to watch, but I will say it was more like in clips. The clips. I would hear a match was good, I would go watch that, you know, that one off and that would be enough, and then you always they're like gearing up towards WrestleMania, And as things have started to feel slightly more normal, I am, you know, kind of checking back in a little more regularly and um going and watching and I can find myself. I I mean, I always enjoy it, but I can tell when I need a break. I just I just check out. You need a little like palate cleanser. I mean, I think I was for sure when I left w W E. I was like, I need to clear my mind. I need to step back from all of this, which is not easy when you're also married to a wrestler who is now not only watching a w but watching every other promotion in the entire fucking world, which is you know, it's still different than the day in and day out of being at w W and being it's you know, raw snack down whatever. But yeah, it's like giving yourself that little like mental cleanse. It is completely necessary. Yeah, I mean I think the first time I did that was when I retired, and I felt kind of guilty, but knew that that's what I needed at that time. And so now there's been enough time that I have. I know that I'm never gonna not watch wrestling or not enjoy it, but there may be another time that I'm just like, Nope, just not watching her right now. I'll hear about something and it will like kick start me back into watching it. But yeah, it's just like take And I say that to fans too when they when they try to like row down with you and just critique a show, and I'm just like and they expect me to be like I know that and this sucks and that I go and I just usually respond to take a break. They want you to break it down frame by frame with them, and you're like, I'm just not there right now. It's not happening to validate their point. I'm like, I've felt the same way, and you know what I do. I take a break. It's not my show. I don't own it. I can't control this stuff, you know, like, and I would listen to you if I owned that company, but I don't. So take a break and you'll love it when you come back. I really noticed that, even um, you know, as my time was winding down at w w B and sort of feeling like I was, you know, burning the candle on both ends and just like, I gotta go do something else. I was still working for w W, but I went to Japan with John when he was doing Wrestle Kingdom and I was like, Oh, this is something completely different and I really enjoy this. I enjoy what the show is, I enjoy way what the fans bring to the table. Like it was that gave me a different perspective that made me just love wrestling from a different lens. I wasn't really watching. And then I went to an indie show and then the indie this was pre pandemic the indie show, and then they had a w on on the screen like prior and then that, and I was just like like, well, you know, and then that spark. I was like, oh, remember you love wrestling, but it was like you kind of had to step away from what you know that I'm just like in, you know, the the indie show, loving every second of it, watching another show that you know that wasn't the world I came from. So it just felt like a break. It felt fresh. It would be remissed for me to not ask you this because she was on the show. I had Britt Baker on the show. D M d after she had her match with thunder Rosa. I had her on that week and she was like, all I wanted was for Trician Leta to watch my match, Like she was thinking that like from like the time I think even from the time that she knew that they were gonna be doing this hard course now much it was. It wasn't even the fact there's a hardcore match, was the fact that they were the main event. And obviously you and Trish get that nod as a first woman to really be able to do that. Did you get eyes on this match? I did? Um, not initially, but yeah, you know, like I said, I'll hear about something and I do care so after I you know, if I you know, it's like you hear about something and that slips your mind. But this kept coming back and I was like, I need to watch this, and not as a favor to Britt who wanted you say, but like as I'm like, oh cool, something cool happened. I didn't see it. I want to watch. Um, holy sh it, right, like right, how insane? Sane? Yeah? I really? Um, I mean that was great that they got that spotlight, but I mean just to talk about like you just need a moment that brings you up from a wrestler that people have heard about too, like just knock knock your stock up, just like I mean, and you know, I think thunder Rosa won the match, but it was one of those that's like it doesn't matter. They just tore the house down. And there there's also like there's no counterpoint, there's no counter argument, like that was an awesome match. Um, I mean not to mention or yes, actually to mention, um the crazy stuff they did. I mean I saw the bad come out and I was like, for sure there's some tax in there, like yeah, just like they fully went for it, not not for a gender or for an amount of time in the business. They went for it and delivered. It was crazy. Yeah, you couldn't help but be like pump for them to be like, Okay, you earned getting this spot, you earned getting that main event, and you guys showed up and did the damn thing, like and it really was like a non gender thing here, just like, oh, you guys were the main and and it you guys, we're so impressive. I wish it I was there to see it in person, because even just to like see it in like see like Tony afterwards talking to them and knowing how nervous he was for them heading and being like, are we doing the right thing? Is this gonna be okay? And and it was, Yeah, they pulled it all off. So kudos to know that from being involved in ringside at so many TLC matches and a hardcore being so nervous, but from like for them right right, like the from the people that are about to be in the match where I'm like, oh my god, like I'm really stoked to be standing here ring side, but I'm also really like I'm gonna be more stoked when we're on the back, on the other side of the curtain and everyone's like walking out of there. Which one stick out for you for that of being ring side being like in a hope and a prayer, let's just get through this. The TLC matches mainly there was like a um it was in WrestleMania in Texas. It was the Hardies versus the Dudley's versus Edge Christian and it was Me, Spike, Dudley and Rhino and uh so that would definitely the match that I just did an untold episode with Edge versus Mick and they had a hardcore match. They had the bag of thumb tacks as well, and flaming tables and barbed wire and just stuff that I was like, this is gonna be awesome, but I just want you like to be okay, you know so so, I mean it would be hard listening to them talk about these things and to not have your inner like real person that cares about them as humans like come out like wait, wait, are you sure, like sweetie, that's gonna it's gonna hurt, you know, Like it's hard to like just quelled out that voice. You can't like compartmentalize those different things, because I get like that with John when he had some of his matches, and I'm like, I've got to be fucking kidding me right now, and to be like watching them and as much as I can just put blind faith and being like, well, he's a professional, he knows what he's doing. It's gonna be fine to actually watching it being like did you lie to me all? Because this looks insane? It's really hard to Yeah, I mean you can't. You can't change your relationship with the person when they're in the match and just be like I just smoke in mirrors. No it's not, and it's terrifying. Yeah yeah, I mean it was usually Jeff that I would knew what knew, would usually have the craziest bump in each of the matches that once once whatever I deemed And I know that we all get hurt usually doing like the dumbest thing or the like you just turn the wrong way and you know, it's like something that you've done a million times when you'll actually somehow get injured. But um, whenever what I deemed the biggest or scariest mump of the match was over, like that, I could feel like I could take it a breath. Yeah. Yeah, especially when you're telling Jeff Hardy like good god, absolute psychopath. Um. So okay, So talking about I mean, looking back at some of those matches and through your career in w w B, one thing that I was find like interesting that it was just a point I guess during your career was the ship that you got from like your relationships throughout w w E. How was that being in the thick of that stuff and like the reactions that you were getting or or how is that like it's still talked about, um, you know, and my relationships are commented on on a regular basis, like on my Instagram still, you know, our social media. But meanwhile, all of the men involved, you know, like and I mean even like any anything not controversial like with being with Punk or or Edge or Matt, It's like I guarantee you they don't get asked about it, you know, like I know, they don't get asked about it because um, they're dudes, and they you know, like it's that double standard thing. And I think that's at this point the problem, like like what I what, like what I hold on to, which was feeling like the double standard. But I'll tell you it was not easy. I mean, I mean, for sure, I almost quit a month, the whole love triangle angle. But I mean, but at that point, not only was it so hard, it was also like out of shame, Like I wasn't proud of the way I conducted myself. And yes, if I had to do it over again, I absolutely would have handled myself different. But I did it, and so I was very much like make the bad you lie in it, you know, and so and and and at that point I was kind of just like I deserve all of these terrible things that everybody's saying to me, I deserved like not wanting to wake up every morning. I just I don't like you know, And so that was that was really difficult, and it was really difficult to also as time passed, like let myself off the hook and being like and the only way you can move forward with your life. Sure, you you learn from your mistakes and you keep going, but like you have to forgive yourself. Well, it's also like fuck, I mean, did anything that bad? Like, yeah, this shitty thing, but like everyone relaxed a little bit. There's a lot worse things that happen and have happened and continue to happen. Um. But yeah, it's like, did you think that you would get that same flak today if that was a or would it be worse because of social media? I don't know. I mean, so it's interesting because obviously it's like with age comes wisdom. So it's like, well, it's hard to hypothesize because that just wouldn't happen, like, you know, like I I just like I have a better skill set to communicate and navigate my day to day. But that happened to me, and there was very limited social media at that point. So I could only imagine in that current day and age with social media. But then now as I think that I would have more, I think I would have some people at least um taking my side, whereas I just felt like literally everyone was against me. Um and I felt area alone and isolated and just it was in a really bad place. Also, during a time like that, all that anyone is getting is the narrative that is being told on television, So you had no platform and no voice to be like, hey, here's what really happened, or here's my side of the story, where like, yeah, they just deal with what was projected to them, which was just like fucking juicy story on TV that was just so intricately woven into what was actually happening in your in your personal life. But like you got fed to the wolves. Yeah, and and so Adam and I had talked at the time, We're just like, because we can't unequivocably deny a one of what's being put out there. And I was was not happy with how I conducted myself. I didn't I didn't want to like act like I was justifying my actions or trying to make excuses. So um, I we both just chose to be like, you know what, like we'll just let it run its course. Well, we'll we will just conduct ourselves with grace, especially because at that point Matt was choosing to really take to the Internet and get the fans behind him. So we were just choosing, you know what, we're just gonna, like he can act that way, We're gonna we're gonna stay quiet. And I don't know if that was the best way. I don't even know what would have been the best way, like, given the fallout, Like, how how else would I have done that? You know, we don't have to talk about this if you don't want to. But because we came up not all that long ago when you were talking about on your Twitch stream about just the ship that you went through and talking about that, you know, the infamous sex scene of you and Edge on raw and just what that whole process. We do you want to talk about this or not? I mean, I really because it doesn't need to be like headline bullshit. Yeah, And that's what's happened, is it became headline stuff at and I looked at Twitch always as my clubhouse, you know, and and and also I never like breaking any stories there. I had talked about that. I was not cool with doing that, Like I've talked about that since so five, you know, and it just never made any headlines. But now, since we've fortunately evolved as a climate in society, it was like shocking, uh, just not not that long ago. But but yeah, my my story has never changed. It's so funny to like kind of look back now to to be like, okay, in that situation of like what you had to go through and like the narrative that was being spun about you being like the female involved in that. It's like, yeah, it's just it's kind of like, would it be the same today now that women have more merit and more of a platform to kind of stand on to be like takes fucking two to tango first of all, but to just pin it on you like that and not be able to have a platform to actually tell your own story. But anyways, fucket, it's in the past. Who cares you own a place in Nicaragua. Let's talk about that. I want to talk about just like your life outside of wrestling too. I Mean, we obviously talked about the Aliens, and we talked about the Kens, and we talked about traveling and bopping around and all that. Um, but you have done a very good job of setting yourself up, Like financially, you've done a really good job of just like you have properties that you've invested in, and that is a great means of income for you. I mean, how who kind of taught you the ropes on how to figure that ship out? I've done a lot of trial and error and and I've done a lot of in my life like what's the worst that could happen? You know? And and um, so with that my place in Nicaragua, I when I knew I was going to retire, I was trying to set myself up financially and and have some passive income moving forward. Um, not knowing what my future was going to hold, and wanting to not know what my future was going to hold. I didn't want to have to like hustle for a job after retiring. And so yeah, I just was looking at all of my finances, seeing what was making the most income and how that was going. And um, like a property that I still had in North Carolina was what, like dollar for dollar was making the most sense. And I was like, Okay, but I don't care if I ever go there. So I don't want to just have an investor, just like I don't want a job to be a paycheck. I didn't want an investment just to be a dollar for dollar. I was like, I'd love an investment that I could enjoy as well. Because the oh eight I had some conservative investments, but they weren't so conservative when the market crashed, and I was like, wait a minute, like, let me, um, these were just numbers on am you know, you like log into your accountancy a number. I was like, I, and now that number is drastically different. I was like, I want something I could touch. I want something I can enrich my life by. I want something I can learn from. UM, and that way, if that goes away, I still was. I still learned, I still enriched myself. I still had these life experiences. And so that was my impetus for for buying my buying a place down in Nicaragua. But you know, integrating into the community, having these trips down there, going on this like wild scavenger hunt, keeping my Spanish language up, and um, you know, just kind of having new life experiences. And I've always said that, you know, I'm sure I would love if that could be a you know, could sell that for a profit one day. But if it's also leveled in a if that's leveled at an earthquake, I still I still like my experiences and what I've gained from having done that is invaluable to me. Why was Nicaragua a choice for you? It was more just looking at I wanted Spanish language. I wanted where it didn't take forever to get to because I wanted to be able to go pretty often and then um, and I wanted where you could own outright, as opposed to a lot of countries will have like leases or if you're a foreigner, there's a lot of contingencies on ownership. So I just had to do research on that. And because Costa Rica has such success when they open their properties up to foreigners, Costa Rica adopted all of their laws, you know, and made it pretty easy for a foreigner too to set up shop down there. The next time you're watching basketball, I've got the perfect way for you to get in on the action for free. I'm talking about NBA in Play. 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If I could be you and you could be me for just one hour, if you could find a way to get inside each other's mind, walk a mile in my shoes, wacome mile in my shoes, walcome shoes. We've all felt left out, and for some that feeling lasts more than a moment. We can change that. Learn how it Belonging begins with us dot org brought to you by the ACT Council. Welcome out in machines. What grows in the forest trees? Sure you know? What else grows in the forest. Our imagination, our sense of wonder, and our family bonds grow too, because when we disconnect from this and connect with this, we reconnect with each other. The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest near you and start exploring. I Discover the Forest dot Org brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the AD Council. What grows in the forest trees? Sure, no one else grows in the forest. Our imagination, our sense of wonder, and our family bonds grow too, because when we disconnect from this and connect with this, we reconnect with each other. The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest near you and start exploring. I Discover the Forest dot org brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the AD Council and NBA. In play today, How did you become the chetty Girl? Do you know this as I like? I. I know you've told me a while ago, but I remember it being a pretty interesting story. It's pretty wild west. I started. I was elite, like Twitter was kind of big when I was, you know, when I bought my place, but then Instagram had just started more and I just needed I think I was probably getting some hate or some negativity. I was like, you know, I just needed to check out of Twitter for a bit. But I'm down here in Nicaragua and I'm taking all these cool pictures and i want someone to see it, you know, and it's wild west down there. You can kind of do whatever you want, like just have a machete hanging from your hip. And I wasn't personally using it to like chop down brush and fields as which you know people are doing there for their actual job. But I would use it and I would go on some unforged trails when I would go hiking and stuff, and you could just like walk into a restaurant and no one's gonna be like, oh man, you need to put your machete away. So yeah, I just would keep my machete, like full size machete, just like hanging from my hip. Like so I was like the white girl with a machete and a dog that would walk around like no one knew me as leada down there, They're just like they and so the locals they would be like when they would say hey to me, they just go machete, you know, And so like that was my nickname. And so because I was in Nicaragle when I started my Instagram account as machete Girl, would you sharpen your machete yourself? Eventually? But I had a neighbor show me how to do it with a sharpening stone. When I saw him doing it one day, I was like, came home on my bike and I was like, oh, I need this is a skill I need to know, and that I like bellied up and I was like, you know, I've always wanted to learn the skill to sharpen knives because I have a bunch of nice chef knives that certainly need to be sharpened up, but I don't know how to do it. But you're very like hands on with stuff. I mean, for you to learn to sharpen your machete, but weren't you also taking a welding? Yeah? What like what sparked that interest? That was like I need something to do or I need I need a bit of routine. But I'm like but not too much like because that's called like that's a job. Go get a job, you know. And I was like no, no, no no, no, no, that's no no, it's too much. Um. But so yeah, it was just at the community college and you just got in there, put your goggles on and got in there and tick around. And it was cool because I was the worst because they would use I guess regular terminology for people that have like anything to reference terms of welding, and and I'm looking at my notes and I'm showing him to a teacher and he's like, no, not like like I would have the words written all wrong because I'm just like, I'm just writing the words that you're saying. I don't know what these are. But so so I was for sure the worst in the in the class and just like burning everything and oxidizing everything. And then right at the end, I was like, I'll go ahead and say I was probably the best welder in the class. But the end, what was a lightbulb going off that you like made the switch and got good at it. Patients practice, and then just um, not telling myself that I'm bad and I don't know what I'm doing, which I would say that for twitch too, because I'm like, I don't do computers and technology. I don't know how to do it. It's like, well, you are here. You are either don't do it or figure it out. And so I think it was but that was a little bit more passive when you asked me. I think that's the first time I thought, how did I become, like go from being the worst in the class. But it was like, stop shopping on yourself. Stop like defeating yourself and saying that you're the worst person in the class that has no idea what you're doing. And it's like, that's what you're here for, Like calm down, no expectations and be patient. What were you making. I'm in San Francisco, like home of like the mass accident is a burning man once a year and everything, And so people are like, I don't take a welding class because they're just like I want to make these giant metal angel wings and do this and they'll have flame shooting up on the first day. He was like, so, you're not going to make anything cool in here. You need to learn how to do every technique of welding and every technique of welding good before you can make anything cool. You will leave here with this class with a doorstop. It's like, and so we had this um. It was like an ex um bracket. So we had to do this like plasma cutting, where like you like cut metal with fire and then you got like four long pieces of metal and then you made it into an X. So now you have these four reservoirs to just fill with welds, and so we would just do we would just work on different welding techniques. You just fill it. You just go down, fill it, you know, show it to him. You'd be like, that's oxidized, that house holes in it. You're too hot here, you you need to turn up your flame here, go back, do some more passes, and then when it was filled, you could give it a quarter turn start filling up your next reservoir. So you are a very well traveled woman. You love to go on trips to anywhere and everywhere. What is your best trip that you've been on? Oh man, that's so I know that that's hard. But I think I would say, and I'm leading up to our Madrid trip. Wasn't a consideration really, um, not for me either, Galapa, I would say, the Galapa goes. Why well, first of all, you're there with a naturalist who just tells you things all day long, and you know how you're just like I wonder why that happens and it's just like that, like someone comes in. Is that where you saw? Those are the blue girls, lupative boobies, they're there. Yeah, And because it is so highly protected, the animals do not give a shit about you. And like you have you're supposed to maintain six ft distance, but like I've been a respect their boundaries as well, but I mean like they just they don't so like we're watching like albatross mating dances, like you just see them fully doing their things as if you're not there. It's really cool when you can go and like yeah, really get it feels like you have like David Attenborough might as well be in the background giving you the un down of the whole thing, which is not what our Madrid trip was like, wasn't So to provide a little bit of context here. So Amy and I had planned to go to Madrid. This was after we had TV and what Manchester, London something like that whatever. It was already over in Europe, so we're like, okay, let's go on a trip. And it was me, you and your girlfriend what's her name again? Sarah's my normal travel buddy. Yeah. So it's the three of us. We've got this great trip plan. And Charlie Caruso had just started at w w E like the day before, brand fucking new. I did not know her at all, but me being like friendly Canadian. I don't know why Canadian goes hand in hand with that. I just that's my crutch and I'm using it as an excuse here. But she was talking to me, so how do these like European trips work. I'm like, well, what I normally do is like go to go. We're in London, Manchester, whatever. And then I kind of parlay that into another trip and anyways, um, Amy and I are going to be going to Madrid and she's like, oh my god, so yeah, I mean, child, come if you want. And I threw it up, not not thinking that it was gonna go that way, and she was like, okay, I will come, and I was like, oh my gosh, I don't this is a stranger. I don't know this person, and like that's fine. But then when I had to be like Amy, I invited another person on our trip that you didn't know at all. I don't think you guys had even met, so I brought her on the trip with us, and it was just funny because like the dynamic was so weird and this is like no shade to Charlie or anything. It was just it was it just through kind of It was like like it was a similar like my aversion to like going on a like planned group trip like that, like a nature expedition. That's like in a group, I'm just like, no, thanks, I don't need to go with strangers. That story is just always funny to me to think about that, like me panicking knowing I had to tell you, and I was like, Amy's going to fucking kill me. Well, and then I was like I'll just tell her no, I'm and You're like, oh, well we do now now we do work with her, So that's probably not like the most welcoming to be like, oh my god, will be a colleague like down the road. And I was just so just for people, just for you guys listening. It was just odd because like, yes, we didn't really know her at the time, we had just met her, were staying in an airbnb, and it was also just like totally different people like I can be pretty fluid in situations of like I'll do what you're doing, or I can hop over here, but like you're a vegan, Sarah's a vegan. You guys are like you guys had your trip planned out for how you wanted to do it. Then I'm trying to accommodate another person who is not falling under these same well you know it is. It could be stressful. Like, Okay, I know when I go back to Atlanta, I have a ton of friends there and so and then I try to group them into like because some of them just don't overlass and and I love four of them, but like I'm like, well, I wouldn't invite this group to that. That's like this group and so it was just it was just like some satellite activities happening. Anyways, we still did it. We did the damn thing, and we cried at Flamenco. And I was thinking about the other night, My god, we went to this Flamenco performance and yeah, you and I both just looked over each other, were like in tears watching this beautiful performance with the like the bellowing deep cries that they do in their like musical performance combined with the dancing. What a beautiful art form. Now those I do have my castanetas like those are on Like I just brought those out on a Twitch streem of the other day and just was like so cool, pretending that I could do it. Well, we really thought we could do it for a bit. I mean we were really throwing down those foot stomps for a while on the walk home. And therefore ever after, we're so that is something just like um welding and tech and kombucha making that I was like, I'm gonna I should be a flamenco dancer. Yes, but and so I went to sign up for a class, and I was researching about it and looking about it and and it's so hard, even though we were great after a few cocktails on the walk home. I don't know why people seem to say it so hard, but that after three years you still can't even do it. And I was like, I'm not gonna get a degree, Like if I was gonna if I was going to commit three years to something, Leah, yeah, I mean, listen, I'm all about the building blocks and the layers that go into art forms and to actually be good at it. But like, throw me a bone here, tell me I can do like something by the end, but you know, you gotta think dancing with the stars, they don't do a flamenco like they do a passa dope play like they do some like Spanish inspired ones, but they don't because probably because you can't in that short time. I guess. So, I mean, it's it's an intricate dance, no question. I don't know. I still feel like you give me a half a bottle of wine and I could still throw down. Maybe. I mean, I was great on my castinetos the other day on my stream. I don't know. I don't know what people find so hard. Yeah, guys, it's obviously fine. Um sticking with your musical expertise, looking at your band, how did you get into wanting to dabble into music after you left w w SO Prior to wrestling, I played in a couple of bands and was taking the judo. That was my thing, and then when I saw wrestling, I was like, oh, it's like being like it's like doing judo and being in a band at the same time, like the rock star aspect of being in a band. I was like, I combine these two things at once, and so it was just um, So I definitely cut music short because you got to go full stop if you're going to, you know, pursue being an professional wrestler. And so when I retired, I was like, oh, I want to I want to re explore that. I did not know that you played bass guitar. Not well, I play that because it's only has four strings, so it's easy to not spent. Like, in three years, you could be a killer bass player. I've seen Xavier Woods doing it. If you've been seeing him posting it online, he's learning bass guitar right now, and it's like every time you post, I'm like, dude, you're basically flee at this point, like you're good. Yeah, it's crazy. I also didn't realize that you were a ROADI at one point. Yeah, that was my for a before I learned how to pick up a bass. I was like, oh, you just get to like just carry carry a base in and you get the best seat in the house. And yeah, I mean so, I was definitely drawn to that pirate lifestyle from a very early age. You have been very much so like very nomadic. You move around, you bop around, you kind of just do your own thing. What are some of like the staples of structure that you have. Is there anything that you're like, these are the things that I need, and everything else is fluid. I would love to or let's say I want I would love I've romanticized heavily about having a schedule with a partner and and and more of a kind of structured day to day, which part of it I've had has been forced during the pandemic. But um, you know, you can't control who's going to come into your life and when and what a partnership looks like or what you know it's like, so that part I can't control, so what I can control as well. I don't want to just wait for the right partner to go travel and experience and do these things I would love to. I've been able to do that with a partner, but that's not the cards I was dealt, So, um, you know, it's kind of it's like that rude thing that people will be like, what are you gonna have a baby? It's like that's not a solo decision. It can be by it Like like now I'm getting into a really deep in the weeds with a kind of casual stranger, so like not appropriate. Yeah, so so yeah, I mean I would love to have a partnership or I don't. I'm not I don't need to get married, but I would love a traditional partnership and that just hasn't been how my life has worked. So in the meantime, I'm like, I don't want to just sit and wait for that. I would like to experience and have as many life experiences as I can. Yeah, and I mean ship, You've done it. I don't know anybody else that has lived life as fully as you have. I mean you have done everything. I mean you've been able to explore all these things that you want to do, from professional wrestling to being in a band to picking up welding to traveling around with your dog for sixteen years. Like you've been able to go to like every corner of the globe and have all of these amazing experiences. I think that's like a very envious lifestyle. Do you feel like friends get envious of that lifestyle that you have? So this is not meant to alarm you in any way, shape or form, But I have a friend who is not a wrestler, So don't try to speculate on who it is, but who has a young a young baby who is not sleeping through the night, and it's not sleeping for any more than one and a half hours consecutively at any point. And she is like not happy, to say the least, like going insane, and and you know, and so you know it's it's also not me, you guys, but it's going to be soon, um and so you know what I'm talking to, you know. And she's like it's miserable. No, no, no, I'm terrible, Like it's better with the second one, Like I'm not ready to leave my family or commit suicide, but it's one notch above that. Well, those are the things that I keep hearing, and I mean, I'm not gonna lie. Those are like those are some things that like when I have this pregnancy insomnia and I wake up and I'm like, what is life going to be like? On the other like I'm in a honeymoon phase right now, I am pregnant, and I am ready for this next chapter. But I'm not in the next chapter, so I can imagine what it's like. My it's gonna be great, Me my baby are gonna be best budd And it's like, no, she might hate me. My friend was like, no, this phase I know it's I know it will end because I have the older one and like it it's gonna be okay. And I was like, well thanks, because it does float in my head from time to time that you know, like, you know, I really I didn't get the experience of having a child on my own, and and you know, sometimes it does. I'm like, did I miss out on that or or I we'll just get sad and go. You know, I didn't. I didn't do that. And my girlfriend is like, no, you I would trade places with you, like you have the best life. Don't you for one second think that you didn't make the right decision for you? You know? So yeah I do think that. But but that's like that's our ghost ship, right, whatever path you didn't choose, you're always gonna wonder. So that's why my friend was saying that about the path that she didn't choose, and that's why it is natural for me to have those thoughts for the path that I didn't choose, of course, And I mean, yeah, you're totally right where it's like, you know, I tried to kind of split it down the middle a little bit of like, hey, I'm gon like do all these things, but then I did make time for this. But it's also during a time where I'm like, there's still so many other things that I want to do, and there's a million career things that I want to just traveling that I want to do. That I mean, you just don't get to do it all. And it's making those decisions and trying to figure it out and then making those decisions not being like, fuck, I wish I did the other thing, which I mean, I guess, but also at that same time, I think you can have that feeling one day and then the next day not be having that feeling. It's you know, I think that's for a house, and then you buy your house and you love it, but you're just so used to looking at houses, so you just keep looking at them and you're like, but I love these houses, and then it's like you can you can love those houses, but you're only gonna live in like one. So it's that like I can think about or wonder about what my other life is like, but I can also like, but here's the one I'm in. I'm enjoying it. And that's like just kind of got to be happy with that. Well, thanks for coming to hang out with me. Oh. Also, let's just not throw away the fact that you're gonna be guest hosting an episode of this show, depending that you still want to do that. I'm straight away from the podcast thing. It seems like too much of a routine for me. But guesting just like a small takeover. It's like baby, step in for a second and walk away from it. I'm like, just godmother, like, just sign me up. I will pop in. I will come and be the support when you need it, as long as you don't need that full time exactly. No, it's it's truly the best of both worlds. Come in, funk around for a bit. Here you go. You can have it back now. Not my problem. Um. So that being said, to wrap up the show, Um, yes, Amy is going to be guest hosting an episode of the show. You get to do whatever you want on this show. Me whether you're going to interview somebody or you're gonna whatever you want, you can do whatever you want. You've got like an hour or whatever. I will. I'll play it safe. I'm gonna I haven't decided who I want to interview, but I'll pick somebody interesting. We'll have fun. Keep with the theme of not having a theme and just yes and sit back and enjoy. I mean, it's just having a conversation with whoever it is that you feel like having a conversation. That's That's how I kind of look at it. Who's interesting that I want to have a little chat with? So the world is your oyster. I'm giving you the keys to the castle. It's not a castle. I'll give you the keys to the loft or the studio apartment. That's all I need. All right, guys, so you will be hearing more of Leda. You may know her wit I was gonna say that back where it's more of Amy may know her as Leda. Um. Thanks for hanging out with us, and you guys can catch Amy on another episode of Oral Sessions. Oral Sessions is proud to be presented by fan Duel. You guys never played fan Duel Fantasy before. Great fan Duel is offering up to a five allar bonus instantly when you make your first deposit with our deposit match. Why do I play fan Duel? I play fan Duel because I'm new to the fantasy game. I kind of need somebody to hold my hand through the whole process. And the thing with the FanDuel Fantasy app is that it's so incredibly easy to use. Even a dumb dumb like me can make it work. And if you happen to be a fence sitter like yours, truly, you guys can pick a new team every single game. You can switch it up, you can change your mind. It's all up to you. Ball is in your court. So fan duel is offering new users a deposit matchup to five hundred smack aaroos when you make your first deposit. Just go to fan duel dot com slash cowherd for more info fan duel dot com, slash Cowherd, vanduel more ways to win. Nick. Thank you to Amy of course for joining me on this episode of World Sessions. Uh and yeah, like I said, she's going to be taking over for the next episode, she's going to be the guest host. I can't wait to see what she does. I can't wait to see who her guest is going to be, what she's going to bring to the table. Um. I mean, she's to have a radio show. She knows what she's doing, she knows the ins and out. So this gig so she's gonna absolutely crush it. But yeah, very very cool. I love doing these different weeks on Oral Sessions. Hopefully guys are enjoying it a little a little breakup, break things up a little bit while I'm out on maternity leave, being a mom, learning mom things, changing diapers. I wonder how many diapers I've gone through at this point. Keep in mind and recording this while I've not had the baby. I'm still pregnant, but when you're hearing it, I have had the baby. Wow. Really stuck in some like inception ship there all right, Guys following me on Instagram and Twitter at Renee Piquette, follow The Volume Sports on Instagram and Twitter. Check out our YouTube pages, both myself and The Volume. We both have them. Check those out, like subscribe, check out the video that goes along with these interviews. And I get that. You know the full, the full three sixty of these interviews. You want to see them, you want to hear them. That's the beauty of zoom, beauty of zoom in the internet. All right, guys, this has been Oral Sessions. Talk to you next time. Get right to the romance and find the way to wow this Valentine's with one hundred Flowers dot Com. From classic roses and Bouquet's to decadent chocolate covered berries, gourmet treats and more. Surprise your Valentine with Flowers dot com right now. Get the eighteen stem enchanted Rose Medley or upgrade red Roses for ten dollars more. Go to one hundred flowers dot com slash tune in. That's one hundred flowers dot com slash tune in