It's the VC Show. It's the VC Show. It's the VC Show. It's the.

It's the VC Show. It's the VC Show. It's the VC Show. It's the.

Show Season two.

Show Season two.

Yeah, we back again, got the world cone in there for so so through with tell of friends, my heart got me on the for us slam, dump the whinstle. Go on, then kick your feet up so you can listen to Gee. It's the VC Show. It's the VC Show. It's the VC Show.

Yeah, we back again, got the world cone in there for so so through with tell of friends, my heart got me on the for us slam, dump the whinstle. Go on, then kick your feet up so you can listen to Gee. It's the VC Show. It's the VC Show. It's the VC Show.

It's the v c All right, all right, welcome to the VC Show. I'm your host, Vince Carter. March Madness has come and gone, but it was fantastic. A lot of great basketball on the men's and women's side, a lot of drama and playoff positioning happening in the NBA. And I'll be discussing that and a lot more with my special guests. So kick your feet up. The VC Show starts. Now. You got what they wanted, Okay, My guests highly decorated. A busy man that has his hand and a little bit of everything. He was mister basketball in Virginia in nineteen ninety McDonald's All American went to a college that's up the rope from UNC, where his jersey number thirty three was retired. Two time first team All American. Excuse me, all acc ACC Player of the Year, Defensive Player of the Year. Take your time, guys. I'm not finished yet. Consistent consensus first and second team All American, two time NCAA champion ninety one and ninety two. I was like five that year. Uh CO Rookie of the Year ninety five with Jason Kidd. He was drafted third by the Detroit Pistons. Three times sportsman Ship Award is awesome award to have for those who don't know much about that. Seven time All Star with over seventeen thousand points. I don't know if he knew that, and the twenty eighteen Nate Smith Hall of Famer. He's a part owner of the Atlanta Hawks, Baltimore Orioles, and the Orlando City soccer team, and analysts for Turner Sports and CBS, which did a fantastic job managing director of the USA men's national basketball team, which I don't envy him. It's a tough job, not at all South Lake High School's own. Put your hands together for Grand Hill, Oh man, man, what's good? Man? Hey? I appreciate that introduction. It's not often that Tar Hills say nice things about Blue devils. Correct, correct, So I appreciate that. So understand how long it took me to get to write that stuff down because I didn't know where I wanted to go with some of that. I was like, ah, you know, that's what I figured. I'd leave your college name out, you know, but I figured some people get an idea. You know, you think of UNC, you think of you know, where you guys go. But let's talk about it.

It's the v c All right, all right, welcome to the VC Show. I'm your host, Vince Carter. March Madness has come and gone, but it was fantastic. A lot of great basketball on the men's and women's side, a lot of drama and playoff positioning happening in the NBA. And I'll be discussing that and a lot more with my special guests. So kick your feet up. The VC Show starts. Now. You got what they wanted, Okay, My guests highly decorated. A busy man that has his hand and a little bit of everything. He was mister basketball in Virginia in nineteen ninety McDonald's All American went to a college that's up the rope from UNC, where his jersey number thirty three was retired. Two time first team All American. Excuse me, all acc ACC Player of the Year, Defensive Player of the Year. Take your time, guys. I'm not finished yet. Consistent consensus first and second team All American, two time NCAA champion ninety one and ninety two. I was like five that year. Uh CO Rookie of the Year ninety five with Jason Kidd. He was drafted third by the Detroit Pistons. Three times sportsman Ship Award is awesome award to have for those who don't know much about that. Seven time All Star with over seventeen thousand points. I don't know if he knew that, and the twenty eighteen Nate Smith Hall of Famer. He's a part owner of the Atlanta Hawks, Baltimore Orioles, and the Orlando City soccer team, and analysts for Turner Sports and CBS, which did a fantastic job managing director of the USA men's national basketball team, which I don't envy him. It's a tough job, not at all South Lake High School's own. Put your hands together for Grand Hill, Oh man, man, what's good? Man? Hey? I appreciate that introduction. It's not often that Tar Hills say nice things about Blue devils. Correct, correct, So I appreciate that. So understand how long it took me to get to write that stuff down because I didn't know where I wanted to go with some of that. I was like, ah, you know, that's what I figured. I'd leave your college name out, you know, but I figured some people get an idea. You know, you think of UNC, you think of you know, where you guys go. But let's talk about it.

Man.

Man.

First of all, I saw you out obviously in Phoenix, but man, you did a great job. I got a chance to listen to you for the championship game because I got up out of there. But how was it? I mean, how was it? I'm watching? Were you impressed with the players? And you know, I think anytime you get to the final four, you know, you always have a Cinderella story, but yet the cream of the crop typically rise to the top. It sounded like a rap bar right there. Yeah. No, First of all, congrats to you. I know you were out there, you know, not as a casual spectator, but it was announced that you were part of the twenty twenty four Hall of Fame class and you'll be enshrined later this summer. So congrats to you on that and that announcement well deserved and I can't wait to hear your remarks when you are are inducted later this year. That'll be great. Hey, let me say this to you since we're on that subject real quick before we move into the march madness, I have another appreciation for you because we we had a general conversation about this in preparation of how it all works, what to expect, and like you said, this is is I look at it like giving information to U of rookie or young men possibly getting adapted into the NBA. You can tell him what it's like, but it's nothing like experience it, experiencing it and going through it. And I it was it was obviously better than inspected. But I think the conversation we had helped me kind of be prepared and able to handle a little better. And on that note, how was your experience going through uh, you know this that phone call you know, more so then the speech first, but the phone call, you know, we got our phone call on April first, which is April fool. So I had to weed out if it was a joke or not right, but it was yours. Yeah, that's pretty funny April fools, now, you know. So what people don't realize is that John Deliver, who's the executive director of the Natesmith Hall of Natesmith Hall of Fame, Basketball Hall of Fame, he calls all of the finalists. So the finalists are announced at All Star weekend. Uh, and then from that sort of pool of candidates, they announced the class. And not everybody who made the finalist roster makes the last cut, if you will. And so he's calling you regardless if you make it or you don't make it. He's letting you know, Hey you got in, or hey you didn't get in. And U and so for me, I got the date mixed up. I thought I had the wrong date. And so the funny thing was I was actually calling again during March Madness. It was an Elite eight game in twenty eighteen, Duke versus Kansas. I told Jim Nance, I told Bill Raftery, I said, look, I might get the call during the game, and so and so, actually, during the game, in the first half, the phone rang. I didn't recognize the number, so I answered it and it was a telemarket and so at halftime I'm nervous. The game's over, Like I'm getting on a jet. I'm flying to the Bahamas because it's spring break that week for my kids. So I texted John Deliva and I said, hey, man, like you know, like you know, like you can call me whenever, like you know, I'm doing a game, like right now, at your time. Yeah, And He's like, no, no, I'm supposed to call you on Tuesday. And so you know, I was like, oh, okay, so I could relax now and actually call the game and not worry about this phone call. But you know, it was a little different from me. I mean, look, everyone knew you were going to get it, and just your career was decorated, storied all that, you did. You know, I had a I had like three different careers in one. You know, I had a really good start and you you combined four years in college and then the six seven years early on, and then I had, you know, years I didn't play, and I was really hurt and I just you know, I couldn't I couldn't get on the court, and that was a hard part, a dark part. And then the end, you know, I was I was more in a role player, and you know, I came back and I was healthy and I was able to contribute, you know, not at the level early in my career. So there was not that gradual decline that happened sometimes as we get older. It just was abrupt for me when I got hurt. And so anyway, I say all that to say like I didn't know, Like I wasn't sure if it would really happen or not. And so yeah, I remember I was at I was at the pool. I got the call, and you know, it was surreal. It was. I'm not an overly emotional person, but you know, I found myself, you know, slightly emotional in that moment, just once once I got the call and then I hung up and just had a moment to process it and think about it, and and so yeah, it was. It was incredible. It was absolutely incredible. But it didn't fully sink in. You know. Obviously, the final four came up that weekend in San Antonio and the announcement happened, and then there's the lead up to the actual enshrinement ceremony. But honestly, it didn't fully hit me until I arrived in Springfield and got caught up and all of the the activities around the enshrinment, Like that's when I really felt it, and that's when it was it was real, you know. And I don't know everybody processes it differently, but that was sort of for me, uh, the initial emotion of the call and then you know, Okay, getting back to reality, let's get back to work, let's call games. They've got the playoffs, life, got to work in my golf swing, all these things going through my mind. But then when you arrived there in Springfield, it, man, it hits you, and it's just it's something that you know, the moment you're you're in awe, did you have like jitters and nerves? And I'm not even talking about the day, you know, the actual day of ensrinment, Like like you said, when you got there, do you feel yourself like jitters? I mean, I mean, I'm right now I'm having like jitters and nerves and like my hairs are jumping up just for the simple thought of like going through that process and hearing other people talk about it. Just it's just an unbelievable moment, Like what did you feel like nerves? Like immediately because I know, you know, and I'm gonna say game day, but I know Enshrinment day, speech day, there's another level of nerves and excitement. Yeah. Well, you know, at first of all, I had been to Enshrinment before. I had been to like three two maybe three enshrinement ceremonies, so I had been able to take it all in and been there. I had seen you know, the dinner of the night before, and then the actual you know, the actual program where the inductees get up and share their remarks, and so you know, I think, you know, of course, they wanted us to send our remarks in advance, and so I think in an effort to keep us under a certain time limit. And so you know, I think I I don't know if I fully prepare. I think I wrote my speech out before I got there. And I think the thing that worried me the most was what I would say, because it's hard to it's hard to sort of just encapsulate an entire career and all the people who impact you, all the people who've touched you, who've inspired you, who helped you along the way, and do that in you know, eight minutes. You know what I'm saying, and right, right, and uh, And so they told me I was going first, and they were like, we got a time limit. We want you to keep the speech at six minutes. And so I probably kept my speech at about eight minutes. And that's probably a little bit of a regret. I wish I could have said a little bit more. But you know, I really just kind of went through a chronological order. And from the time I started playing, who were the people who inspired me? You know, I had as my presenters. I had pat Ewing. Pat Ewing at Georgetown. I first, you know, fell in love with the game of basketball watching Georgetown versus North Carolina and in the eighty two NCAA Championship game. Yeah, and so became season ticket holders at Georgetown. Watched every you know, every game at home for pat Ewing from the sophomore through senior year. Uh. And of course, you know, I'll confess I was a Carolina I'm a fan too from watching that game. But I had pat Ewing as a presenter, you know, I had I had Coach k you know, obviously he was a Hall of Famer, his impact, his influence. I had Isaiah Thomas. You know, Isaiah was someone who when I was young, I was sort of chasing him and chasing his legend and it kind of inspired me and motivated me when I was in Detroit to strive for something, you know, strive for something that you know that was, you know, to me was excellence and so and he was always good and always kind to me and supportive during those Detroit years and even afterwards. And then Alonzo Morning, you know, Alonzo Morning was was was also a presenter and that might have been an odd one, but uh, and we were certainly adversaries and we had our moments, you know, back in the nineties. But you know, his medical challenge and going through with the kidney issue and having to fight through and get back and play as I was going through my own stuff like that inspired me. And that inspired me how he was able to push through, find a way and resume his career and seemed to have peace of mind even though he might not have been at the same level he was at prior to that illness or that diagnosis. So you know, it was identifying, like who were those people who inspired me at different moments of my career and my life. And then you know, just talking about you know, when I first started playing, and the coaches and you know, one thing I realized. I played nineteen years in the NBA and I played four years in college. I didn't have the time to think every teammate and we would still be there if I went through. So I made it a decision to not think like single certain people out, but to thank all my teammates, but just went through coaches, went through, doctors, trainers, family members, And you know, I think because I was prepared and I kind of wrote out what I was going to say, and I knew where I was going, Like I was actually looking forward to that moment, the nerves calm for me, you know, knowing once I knew what I was going to say. But you're still it's the same like calling games. It's the same like before you play, you get that anxiousness, you get that you know, it's hard to put in words what that feeling is, and that feeling was definitely there, you know, as the enshrineming ceremony began and the lead up to it, you know, that was it was like almost getting ready for a game. And that sounds crazy, but but it was. It was an incredible moment, and you know, it was one that the only regret is just you know, don't put a time constraint. You know, I shouldn't have put a time constraint on, you know, on what I wanted to say or how long I wanted to say it. And if I could do it over again, I might talk just a little bit longer than what I did. I'm sure, mister deliver and Colangelo here in unight now, like no, Vincent, don't know, Vince, don't listen to him, right, But yeah, I received the phone call on that first and I went outside because I've seen video, uh you know obviously you know, multiple Hall of Famers receiving that phone call and around a lot of people, which is you know, that's just all well and good. It's just I don't know, I just felt like, well it was it was April fool, So I didn't want to have a bunch of people around and it's a joke, you know, that's like a you know, that's not that's not really what's up one. So I was outside and just kind of took you know, enjoyed the moment, still tried to figure it out, and once you know, realized what it was and had my moment, it was kind of just like a crazy feeling and like you said about you know, it's now a thing. You know, it's I feel like reality is coming later, but it's a thing now, Like, Okay, I got the phone call and I'm it in every step of the way. So you know, it got leaked out a day early prior to the following day, so prior to everything, and that Saturday at the the press conference and the revealing on game day, it was already kind of out. So it still didn't really hit me. I think, you know, I'm gonna be honest, it really hit me more than anything when I walked into the room to start getting fitted for my ring and my jacket. You know, you walk in and you know, it's like it's like you hear about Niagara Falls and then you get to go see it and you're like, oh, so that's what they were always talking about. It's kind of one of those things, you know, it's like the wonders of the world when you finally see it in personally, like, oh, so that's it. I finally got to see that wonder of the world. And I think that was kind of how it was. I got there the night before whatever, but it was until I walked in and that orange jacket to try on was right there, and you see Basketball Hall of Fame, the jersey with the twenty four the name on it, and then after you do that, do the quick interview. Then you go and sit down and then you're sizing with the ring and you see the different rings from other from past years, and you kind of like, WHOA, this is now. This is not a joke. This is real. And you go through that, and then obviously the revealing and the press conference, and I'll tell you another awesome moment was kind of sitting at the press conference. It wasn't more the revealing that I did with the Billis and and and those. It was more so the press conference when you're sitting there with the media and you're now talking about it and kind of going through like the phases. Like you said, I think that's when it started to hit me. And then obviously walking out at halftime, you know, it was pretty cool. So it's it's slowly getting there. But like I said, I know, I guess my excitement. I have such an appreciation for what the Hall of Fame means and what who's in it and in the honor. I think that's where my excitement and emotions come from. So it's uh, like I said, every time I talk about I still get the chills, like and like it's just happening again already. Well, you know, you you you touched on something and it made me realize that I don't think I really had a chance to really feel it because like I'm prepping for the Final four as a broadcaster, and and so I missed out on some of the things. I remember the ring sizing and and getting the jacket. But like you know, I'm thinking about you know, Villanova and and and you and c and you know Jared Barry and excuse me, Joel Berry and Joel Berry yeah, and THEO Pens. Like I'm I'm like, you know, you're getting ready and it's it's it's a big moment. And so it was hard for me to, I think, truly feel the moment of you know, all that that comes with the announcement. I think for me, I felt it as you as you you know, described how you felt like I really felt it once I got to Springfield, once I arrived. So that's that next level. Yeah, I can't wait. I can't wait, man, I can't wait just to go through it. It's kind of. It's like I said, it's cool you think of you know, people ask me like you knows, as a as a high school kid, let's just say, or a middle school kid, middle school kid, you dream of being a professional basketball player. We don't think about Hall of Fame until like the back end of your career or when you're finished, and now it's thrown your way. I never thought about it. I was like I wanted to be you know, obviously for me, I wanted to get drafted and be a professional player. I wanted to win a dunk contest. I wanted to possibly be Rookie of the year, you know, play for a championship, maybe win a championship. You know, all of these different things, score a lot of points, hit game winners, all of these things you dream of as a kid or well into your adult For us, we played late in our forties, right, you know, so you know, as an adult or just as an athlete general. You know, you all of these things you want accomplish it it's never thrown your way. And and kind of, I guess how you said it is for me as well, which I think heightens my appreciation for being there. You know, I didn't win a championship, I didn't get to play for one. But at the same time, you said something to me the first time we talked, just like you said, you know, you wondered what you know, you being a Hall of Famer, But I did what did I do to deserve it? But at the same time you said you it all came to fruition, like you was like, but I did deserve it, and sometimes you have to kind of go through it. And I was in that position. It's like, yeah, I look at some of the greats in in in you know, icons in the Hall of Fame right now, and sometimes I'm like, man, do I belong here, you know, with this group? And then you know, I'm just very thankful. And I think that's where the emotion and appreciation for being in this position today comes from. No. I mean, look, I think what I've learned is interesting hearing you say that, like sometimes we don't see what everyone else sees, and you know, I'm like, come on, Vince is a no brain like you know, and and I get it. I mean, you know, I mean, I remember, you know, Vin sanity, I remember your great years in New Jersey. I mean, you had a pretty awesome run. You know, where you were, you know, as good as anybody in the league. And you know, I also remember, you know you at the end, you know, and you kind of being a role player and being a you know, veteran influence and veteran voice in the locker room and still able to go out there and be productive. I think sometimes we only remember what we experienced last. We forget like the totality of the whole, the whole thing. But I also think, and I told I know, I told you this once. I told you we were playing golf or something. But I don't know if this speaks for you, but I know it spoke for me. That you spend a lot of time focusing on what you didn't accomplish. And you know, I didn't do this, I didn't do that. I didn't win a championship, I didn't win an MV I didn't do these things that you know, were realistic goals and things that you know, if the break, if things went a little bit differently, maybe could have happened. You know, you and I I think you know, we were on that trajector we could have been in VPS. You know what I'm saying, It just didn't happen or whatever, and that may not have been a goal. I don't know, but I'm just saying, like, when you get that call and when you are inducted into the Hall of Fame, everything you didn't do or didn't accomplish, it's almost like it cleanses you of that. Like you just like at this point it doesn't matter because you ultimately are validated, and you're validated because you're in this rarefied air with you know. I think there's only maybe less than two hundred people in the Hall Basketball Hall of Fame, and that's you know, I don't know the exact number, but crazy and after all these years, like you're in there and it just kind of just it's like, you know what, it's the ribbon on your career, but the soul so just it makes everything good.

First of all, I saw you out obviously in Phoenix, but man, you did a great job. I got a chance to listen to you for the championship game because I got up out of there. But how was it? I mean, how was it? I'm watching? Were you impressed with the players? And you know, I think anytime you get to the final four, you know, you always have a Cinderella story, but yet the cream of the crop typically rise to the top. It sounded like a rap bar right there. Yeah. No, First of all, congrats to you. I know you were out there, you know, not as a casual spectator, but it was announced that you were part of the twenty twenty four Hall of Fame class and you'll be enshrined later this summer. So congrats to you on that and that announcement well deserved and I can't wait to hear your remarks when you are are inducted later this year. That'll be great. Hey, let me say this to you since we're on that subject real quick before we move into the march madness, I have another appreciation for you because we we had a general conversation about this in preparation of how it all works, what to expect, and like you said, this is is I look at it like giving information to U of rookie or young men possibly getting adapted into the NBA. You can tell him what it's like, but it's nothing like experience it, experiencing it and going through it. And I it was it was obviously better than inspected. But I think the conversation we had helped me kind of be prepared and able to handle a little better. And on that note, how was your experience going through uh, you know this that phone call you know, more so then the speech first, but the phone call, you know, we got our phone call on April first, which is April fool. So I had to weed out if it was a joke or not right, but it was yours. Yeah, that's pretty funny April fools, now, you know. So what people don't realize is that John Deliver, who's the executive director of the Natesmith Hall of Natesmith Hall of Fame, Basketball Hall of Fame, he calls all of the finalists. So the finalists are announced at All Star weekend. Uh, and then from that sort of pool of candidates, they announced the class. And not everybody who made the finalist roster makes the last cut, if you will. And so he's calling you regardless if you make it or you don't make it. He's letting you know, Hey you got in, or hey you didn't get in. And U and so for me, I got the date mixed up. I thought I had the wrong date. And so the funny thing was I was actually calling again during March Madness. It was an Elite eight game in twenty eighteen, Duke versus Kansas. I told Jim Nance, I told Bill Raftery, I said, look, I might get the call during the game, and so and so, actually, during the game, in the first half, the phone rang. I didn't recognize the number, so I answered it and it was a telemarket and so at halftime I'm nervous. The game's over, Like I'm getting on a jet. I'm flying to the Bahamas because it's spring break that week for my kids. So I texted John Deliva and I said, hey, man, like you know, like you know, like you can call me whenever, like you know, I'm doing a game, like right now, at your time. Yeah, And He's like, no, no, I'm supposed to call you on Tuesday. And so you know, I was like, oh, okay, so I could relax now and actually call the game and not worry about this phone call. But you know, it was a little different from me. I mean, look, everyone knew you were going to get it, and just your career was decorated, storied all that, you did. You know, I had a I had like three different careers in one. You know, I had a really good start and you you combined four years in college and then the six seven years early on, and then I had, you know, years I didn't play, and I was really hurt and I just you know, I couldn't I couldn't get on the court, and that was a hard part, a dark part. And then the end, you know, I was I was more in a role player, and you know, I came back and I was healthy and I was able to contribute, you know, not at the level early in my career. So there was not that gradual decline that happened sometimes as we get older. It just was abrupt for me when I got hurt. And so anyway, I say all that to say like I didn't know, Like I wasn't sure if it would really happen or not. And so yeah, I remember I was at I was at the pool. I got the call, and you know, it was surreal. It was. I'm not an overly emotional person, but you know, I found myself, you know, slightly emotional in that moment, just once once I got the call and then I hung up and just had a moment to process it and think about it, and and so yeah, it was. It was incredible. It was absolutely incredible. But it didn't fully sink in. You know. Obviously, the final four came up that weekend in San Antonio and the announcement happened, and then there's the lead up to the actual enshrinement ceremony. But honestly, it didn't fully hit me until I arrived in Springfield and got caught up and all of the the activities around the enshrinment, Like that's when I really felt it, and that's when it was it was real, you know. And I don't know everybody processes it differently, but that was sort of for me, uh, the initial emotion of the call and then you know, Okay, getting back to reality, let's get back to work, let's call games. They've got the playoffs, life, got to work in my golf swing, all these things going through my mind. But then when you arrived there in Springfield, it, man, it hits you, and it's just it's something that you know, the moment you're you're in awe, did you have like jitters and nerves? And I'm not even talking about the day, you know, the actual day of ensrinment, Like like you said, when you got there, do you feel yourself like jitters? I mean, I mean, I'm right now I'm having like jitters and nerves and like my hairs are jumping up just for the simple thought of like going through that process and hearing other people talk about it. Just it's just an unbelievable moment, Like what did you feel like nerves? Like immediately because I know, you know, and I'm gonna say game day, but I know Enshrinment day, speech day, there's another level of nerves and excitement. Yeah. Well, you know, at first of all, I had been to Enshrinment before. I had been to like three two maybe three enshrinement ceremonies, so I had been able to take it all in and been there. I had seen you know, the dinner of the night before, and then the actual you know, the actual program where the inductees get up and share their remarks, and so you know, I think, you know, of course, they wanted us to send our remarks in advance, and so I think in an effort to keep us under a certain time limit. And so you know, I think I I don't know if I fully prepare. I think I wrote my speech out before I got there. And I think the thing that worried me the most was what I would say, because it's hard to it's hard to sort of just encapsulate an entire career and all the people who impact you, all the people who've touched you, who've inspired you, who helped you along the way, and do that in you know, eight minutes. You know what I'm saying, and right, right, and uh, And so they told me I was going first, and they were like, we got a time limit. We want you to keep the speech at six minutes. And so I probably kept my speech at about eight minutes. And that's probably a little bit of a regret. I wish I could have said a little bit more. But you know, I really just kind of went through a chronological order. And from the time I started playing, who were the people who inspired me? You know, I had as my presenters. I had pat Ewing. Pat Ewing at Georgetown. I first, you know, fell in love with the game of basketball watching Georgetown versus North Carolina and in the eighty two NCAA Championship game. Yeah, and so became season ticket holders at Georgetown. Watched every you know, every game at home for pat Ewing from the sophomore through senior year. Uh. And of course, you know, I'll confess I was a Carolina I'm a fan too from watching that game. But I had pat Ewing as a presenter, you know, I had I had Coach k you know, obviously he was a Hall of Famer, his impact, his influence. I had Isaiah Thomas. You know, Isaiah was someone who when I was young, I was sort of chasing him and chasing his legend and it kind of inspired me and motivated me when I was in Detroit to strive for something, you know, strive for something that you know that was, you know, to me was excellence and so and he was always good and always kind to me and supportive during those Detroit years and even afterwards. And then Alonzo Morning, you know, Alonzo Morning was was was also a presenter and that might have been an odd one, but uh, and we were certainly adversaries and we had our moments, you know, back in the nineties. But you know, his medical challenge and going through with the kidney issue and having to fight through and get back and play as I was going through my own stuff like that inspired me. And that inspired me how he was able to push through, find a way and resume his career and seemed to have peace of mind even though he might not have been at the same level he was at prior to that illness or that diagnosis. So you know, it was identifying, like who were those people who inspired me at different moments of my career and my life. And then you know, just talking about you know, when I first started playing, and the coaches and you know, one thing I realized. I played nineteen years in the NBA and I played four years in college. I didn't have the time to think every teammate and we would still be there if I went through. So I made it a decision to not think like single certain people out, but to thank all my teammates, but just went through coaches, went through, doctors, trainers, family members, And you know, I think because I was prepared and I kind of wrote out what I was going to say, and I knew where I was going, Like I was actually looking forward to that moment, the nerves calm for me, you know, knowing once I knew what I was going to say. But you're still it's the same like calling games. It's the same like before you play, you get that anxiousness, you get that you know, it's hard to put in words what that feeling is, and that feeling was definitely there, you know, as the enshrineming ceremony began and the lead up to it, you know, that was it was like almost getting ready for a game. And that sounds crazy, but but it was. It was an incredible moment, and you know, it was one that the only regret is just you know, don't put a time constraint. You know, I shouldn't have put a time constraint on, you know, on what I wanted to say or how long I wanted to say it. And if I could do it over again, I might talk just a little bit longer than what I did. I'm sure, mister deliver and Colangelo here in unight now, like no, Vincent, don't know, Vince, don't listen to him, right, But yeah, I received the phone call on that first and I went outside because I've seen video, uh you know obviously you know, multiple Hall of Famers receiving that phone call and around a lot of people, which is you know, that's just all well and good. It's just I don't know, I just felt like, well it was it was April fool, So I didn't want to have a bunch of people around and it's a joke, you know, that's like a you know, that's not that's not really what's up one. So I was outside and just kind of took you know, enjoyed the moment, still tried to figure it out, and once you know, realized what it was and had my moment, it was kind of just like a crazy feeling and like you said about you know, it's now a thing. You know, it's I feel like reality is coming later, but it's a thing now, Like, Okay, I got the phone call and I'm it in every step of the way. So you know, it got leaked out a day early prior to the following day, so prior to everything, and that Saturday at the the press conference and the revealing on game day, it was already kind of out. So it still didn't really hit me. I think, you know, I'm gonna be honest, it really hit me more than anything when I walked into the room to start getting fitted for my ring and my jacket. You know, you walk in and you know, it's like it's like you hear about Niagara Falls and then you get to go see it and you're like, oh, so that's what they were always talking about. It's kind of one of those things, you know, it's like the wonders of the world when you finally see it in personally, like, oh, so that's it. I finally got to see that wonder of the world. And I think that was kind of how it was. I got there the night before whatever, but it was until I walked in and that orange jacket to try on was right there, and you see Basketball Hall of Fame, the jersey with the twenty four the name on it, and then after you do that, do the quick interview. Then you go and sit down and then you're sizing with the ring and you see the different rings from other from past years, and you kind of like, WHOA, this is now. This is not a joke. This is real. And you go through that, and then obviously the revealing and the press conference, and I'll tell you another awesome moment was kind of sitting at the press conference. It wasn't more the revealing that I did with the Billis and and and those. It was more so the press conference when you're sitting there with the media and you're now talking about it and kind of going through like the phases. Like you said, I think that's when it started to hit me. And then obviously walking out at halftime, you know, it was pretty cool. So it's it's slowly getting there. But like I said, I know, I guess my excitement. I have such an appreciation for what the Hall of Fame means and what who's in it and in the honor. I think that's where my excitement and emotions come from. So it's uh, like I said, every time I talk about I still get the chills, like and like it's just happening again already. Well, you know, you you you touched on something and it made me realize that I don't think I really had a chance to really feel it because like I'm prepping for the Final four as a broadcaster, and and so I missed out on some of the things. I remember the ring sizing and and getting the jacket. But like you know, I'm thinking about you know, Villanova and and and you and c and you know Jared Barry and excuse me, Joel Berry and Joel Berry yeah, and THEO Pens. Like I'm I'm like, you know, you're getting ready and it's it's it's a big moment. And so it was hard for me to, I think, truly feel the moment of you know, all that that comes with the announcement. I think for me, I felt it as you as you you know, described how you felt like I really felt it once I got to Springfield, once I arrived. So that's that next level. Yeah, I can't wait. I can't wait, man, I can't wait just to go through it. It's kind of. It's like I said, it's cool you think of you know, people ask me like you knows, as a as a high school kid, let's just say, or a middle school kid, middle school kid, you dream of being a professional basketball player. We don't think about Hall of Fame until like the back end of your career or when you're finished, and now it's thrown your way. I never thought about it. I was like I wanted to be you know, obviously for me, I wanted to get drafted and be a professional player. I wanted to win a dunk contest. I wanted to possibly be Rookie of the year, you know, play for a championship, maybe win a championship. You know, all of these different things, score a lot of points, hit game winners, all of these things you dream of as a kid or well into your adult For us, we played late in our forties, right, you know, so you know, as an adult or just as an athlete general. You know, you all of these things you want accomplish it it's never thrown your way. And and kind of, I guess how you said it is for me as well, which I think heightens my appreciation for being there. You know, I didn't win a championship, I didn't get to play for one. But at the same time, you said something to me the first time we talked, just like you said, you know, you wondered what you know, you being a Hall of Famer, But I did what did I do to deserve it? But at the same time you said you it all came to fruition, like you was like, but I did deserve it, and sometimes you have to kind of go through it. And I was in that position. It's like, yeah, I look at some of the greats in in in you know, icons in the Hall of Fame right now, and sometimes I'm like, man, do I belong here, you know, with this group? And then you know, I'm just very thankful. And I think that's where the emotion and appreciation for being in this position today comes from. No. I mean, look, I think what I've learned is interesting hearing you say that, like sometimes we don't see what everyone else sees, and you know, I'm like, come on, Vince is a no brain like you know, and and I get it. I mean, you know, I mean, I remember, you know, Vin sanity, I remember your great years in New Jersey. I mean, you had a pretty awesome run. You know, where you were, you know, as good as anybody in the league. And you know, I also remember, you know you at the end, you know, and you kind of being a role player and being a you know, veteran influence and veteran voice in the locker room and still able to go out there and be productive. I think sometimes we only remember what we experienced last. We forget like the totality of the whole, the whole thing. But I also think, and I told I know, I told you this once. I told you we were playing golf or something. But I don't know if this speaks for you, but I know it spoke for me. That you spend a lot of time focusing on what you didn't accomplish. And you know, I didn't do this, I didn't do that. I didn't win a championship, I didn't win an MV I didn't do these things that you know, were realistic goals and things that you know, if the break, if things went a little bit differently, maybe could have happened. You know, you and I I think you know, we were on that trajector we could have been in VPS. You know what I'm saying, It just didn't happen or whatever, and that may not have been a goal. I don't know, but I'm just saying, like, when you get that call and when you are inducted into the Hall of Fame, everything you didn't do or didn't accomplish, it's almost like it cleanses you of that. Like you just like at this point it doesn't matter because you ultimately are validated, and you're validated because you're in this rarefied air with you know. I think there's only maybe less than two hundred people in the Hall Basketball Hall of Fame, and that's you know, I don't know the exact number, but crazy and after all these years, like you're in there and it just kind of just it's like, you know what, it's the ribbon on your career, but the soul so just it makes everything good.

You know.

You know.

It's like, Okay, this is and you know, and it's funny man, because we talk about it, like I think back to when I was a kid, or when I first got to high school, and of course, yeah, I dreamed of playing in college and I dreamed, you know, oh, I love to play in the NBA. But with all that's happened, the really good, and even some of the misfortunate. I don't know if I dreamed big enough to do what I ultimately did, and so I often sometimes would remind myself, like, man, when I was a kid, like what were my big dreams? You know, and like what happened far exceeded what I dreamed of doing. And so it's like, you know, the game has been so so incredible to both of us and countless others, and I think it's a moment to really reflect and appreciate sort of the game, what it's brought you, the doors it's opened people you've met, the people who've guided you and helped you along the way. It's a powerful moment, and I think you feel it either leading up to it, but definitely in the moment if you will. Yeah, yeah. And it's crazy you say that because you know, in my mind, I said, man, I want to play fourteen fifteen years because you know, one of the greatest players that ever laced them up, Michael Jordan, did that. So I'm like, if I can play fourteen fifteen years, I'm doing okay. And then got the fourteen fifteen years, like, man, I could keep going, and I took the challenge regardless of the role that I had. You know, I wanted to take the challenge of still being able to play the game that I love for as long as I can. And I was able to walk away because I wanted to, not because I had to. You know, a lot of there's a lot of people, as you know, that don't get that opportunity, whether it's not getting a phone call to play again, or injury or whatever the situation may be. I chose to retire and walk away from the game, and I'm truly blessed and thankful for that. So you're right, You're right, you know, you know, you know, at the end of the day, you know, I am, like I said, I'm truly you know, honored to be a part of this. And like you said, you know, maybe maybe I've done more than I feel like I've accomplished and has has has touched other people's lives through this game of basketball, and you know, like I said, I have appreciation for them. So yeah, that's awesome.

It's like, Okay, this is and you know, and it's funny man, because we talk about it, like I think back to when I was a kid, or when I first got to high school, and of course, yeah, I dreamed of playing in college and I dreamed, you know, oh, I love to play in the NBA. But with all that's happened, the really good, and even some of the misfortunate. I don't know if I dreamed big enough to do what I ultimately did, and so I often sometimes would remind myself, like, man, when I was a kid, like what were my big dreams? You know, and like what happened far exceeded what I dreamed of doing. And so it's like, you know, the game has been so so incredible to both of us and countless others, and I think it's a moment to really reflect and appreciate sort of the game, what it's brought you, the doors it's opened people you've met, the people who've guided you and helped you along the way. It's a powerful moment, and I think you feel it either leading up to it, but definitely in the moment if you will. Yeah, yeah. And it's crazy you say that because you know, in my mind, I said, man, I want to play fourteen fifteen years because you know, one of the greatest players that ever laced them up, Michael Jordan, did that. So I'm like, if I can play fourteen fifteen years, I'm doing okay. And then got the fourteen fifteen years, like, man, I could keep going, and I took the challenge regardless of the role that I had. You know, I wanted to take the challenge of still being able to play the game that I love for as long as I can. And I was able to walk away because I wanted to, not because I had to. You know, a lot of there's a lot of people, as you know, that don't get that opportunity, whether it's not getting a phone call to play again, or injury or whatever the situation may be. I chose to retire and walk away from the game, and I'm truly blessed and thankful for that. So you're right, You're right, you know, you know, you know, at the end of the day, you know, I am, like I said, I'm truly you know, honored to be a part of this. And like you said, you know, maybe maybe I've done more than I feel like I've accomplished and has has has touched other people's lives through this game of basketball, and you know, like I said, I have appreciation for them. So yeah, that's awesome.

H H.

H H.

Popping back to the tournament real quick, like, did what was what did you take from that tournament? You know, I mean, I thought, for me personally, I thought we saw a lot of kids who did who made an unbelievable name for themselves, whether they stay another year or go pro. Uh, you know, look at somebody like NC State who you know, if you're if you watch ACC basketball like we do. Yeah, we in c State didn't have a wing in to pray of my opinion, and they went on an unbelievable run and knocked us all out to see themselves in the final four. You know, obviously they ran into a darn good Purdue team and you know what, what were you what were your takeaway from this final four? What from this tournament in general? Well, first of all, the wolfback they did have an incredible run and they beat you guys once. They beat us twice twice on that run. They beat you guys in the ACC finals, and they beat us in the ACC tournament and in the Elite eight. But you know what I like, and you know, you and I we're primarily in the in the world of the NBA, and that's kind of where we work and kind of our sandbox, if you will, even though you know we follow our respective schools in the college game. But it's really cool. The helicopter in uh to the college game at the right and the most exciting time of the year. I think the storylines. The thing I enjoy is is the preparation and you know, learning and taking a deep dive to really kind of learn and understand these teams, their journeys, the individual players, not just their tendencies and style of play, but their backgrounds. You know, we get to spend time with these kids, We get to interview them between games each weekend, and you find yourself as you go further and further with these teams, you start pulling for all of them because you like them. You know, even when Carolina, you know, went through the I think they lost in seventeen to Villanova and then came back in eighteen. I spent a considerable amount of time with those kids, and I know the heartbreak they went through the year before, and then they come back and you know they're all back and they're determined, and you pull for them. You want to see all these kids experience what I was so fortunate to experience. And I know that's not popular in Durham with my Duke faithful to say that, but yeah, I was happy for those kids at North Carolina that you know, they were able to redeem themselves and come back and win a championship. So with with all of that said, Yukon, I mean they're dominance. Dan Hurley can really coach, and how he has taken two separate teams, two different teams, different personnel, and has been able to get there and win and do it in dominant fashion. I loved the Zach Eaedes story. You know, two time National Player of the Year, one of the most dominant figures in college basketball in recent years. He came back and after being you know ousted in the first round last year by Fairley Dickinson as a number one seed and leading his team and playing just heroic basketball up until the finals when they when they obviously ran into Yukon. The State story, I mean, it's just you know t J. Burns, you know, I mean the whole world fell in love with Yeah. I think both d you know, both DJs and and how they just played loose and free. And you know, the coach, Kevin Keats, I mean, he was on the hot seat. I mean they were probably gonna fire him, and you know, for him to not only win the A c C, it triggered some bonuses, it triggered an extension on his contract, but to get to the final four, you know, you hope for him that now you know, they'll be transfers and they'll be recruits that that want to play for him. They saw how they played, They saw the freedom and the toughness and the excitement, uh that that they played with. And so so there's just a number of of of great stories that happened throughout, uh throughout the NCAA tournament. Alabama, you know how they played, and you know, obviously they beat they beat you guys in a tough game. But you know, in the n b A, you know, you have a best of seven series and most times the best team wins. The best team might be off for one game, they might even be off for two games, but usually the best team is going to win four out of seven. But in the tournament, the best team doesn't always win. And you can have you know, foul trouble, you can have an off shooting half. You know, things can just may not go your way. A team could get hot that you're playing against and lo and behold, you know, number one, number two seed, a favorite, a better team for the most part, can lose. And I think that's what makes it exciting is that it's one and done. Keep talking about us right now. No no, no, no, no, no, no, no no no. I mean we lost to an eleven seed in the Elite eight, you know what I mean. But I mean, look every year they're upsets, their bracketbusters, and there's buzzer beaters, and it seems to happen every tournament like clockwork. And that's why everybody tunes in. That's why everybody tunes in. Yep, and I and I say that, you know, and I know a lot of kids are leaving early one and done's or whatnot. Obviously, the transfer portal is what it is right now. Uh you know we in Carolina going through that. Wis Seth all the best. I want to throw that out there because it's great, comes from a great family. I just think march Man is regardless of the men's side, not as having as many superstars, still had a lot of eyeballs and people really excited about the moment. That's the one thing about college basketball, more than than in anything else, is that you're you're loyal to your school. So if your school is there, your your fandom is going to take takeover. And obviously go to another level as opposed to the NBA. Sometimes you know your team's not winning for a couple of years, and you know, people hop off the bandwagon somewhere else. It's not really like that. And if college is much and I think that's what makes college so great, which brings me to the women's side. We talked about the storylines and and and just the viewership and just everything about it has been next level the women's game. We don't see one and done's you know, so you're you're you're getting that superstar for four years, three to four years. I'm so, you know what four years now? Five years for right now? And it's just great to follow. And obviously Caitlin Clark and what she did was unbelievable, but I'm gonna shift my attention to don Staley. And I say that because her record in three years is insane and I don't think it gets talked about enough, you know, and and it's no disrespect to anybody else, but I just think that's an unbelievable record. I think it's an unbelievable feat for what she accomplished this year, going undefeated and finishing with the championship. Because We've seen over years teams go undefeated and don't get the job done after what has happened to them last year, to the team that they lost to last year. So I'm sure it was extra motivation. But did I know you were busy, But did you get a chance to watch any of the the Final four or any of the women's uh side in basketball this year? Yeah? No, I mean I did. I did. I got a chance to watch, and certainly congratulations to Don Staley and you know her team, the game Cocks, I mean, just to do what they did and a very competitive women's basketball landscape. It's you know, I've known Dawn since we were in college. She was at University of Virginia, and her resume, I mean, you know, she she's going to be a two time Hall of Famer. I mean, she was, you know, National Player of the Year maybe two years in college. She was a multiple All Star in the w n B A I think she want she played in three Olympics as a as a as a you know, as a player and won three gold medals. And then she's coached in the Olympics and won a gold medal as a coach, maybe two gold medals. I'm not sure. And you know in this one, you know, multiple championships. I mean, she's you know, look, first of all, she's amazing. She doesn't get enough credit, doesn't get enough you know of her flowers, if you will. But the college women's basketball game and just women's basketball in general, like it's had an inflection point, Like it's at a point now where there's more eyeballs now on the game. And that's for a number of reasons. And look when Dawn played and Lisa Leslie and Cheryl or Cheryl Shroop, Cynthia Cooper, like they were some incredible basketball players and there was some incredible basketball being played that back then, but they didn't get the interest, they didn't get the eyeballs, they didn't get people watching. Now we're starting to see that WNBA Finals. You had Las Vegas and Aces versus New York Liberty. There was real excitement, there was great viewership. Uh, you see it the last few years in college basketball. Obviously Don Staley LSU last year IOWA with Caitlin Clark. The numbers don't lie and uh, and so I feel like it's taken a minute. You know, it's taken a minute for for the women's game to really catch on and become popular. But I think we're here, and I think you'll continue continue to see uh the game ascend on the women's side, and I think that has you know, it have an incredible impact on revenue, on player salaries, and a whole bunch, and so it's well deserved. And I'm excited for you know, as a girl, dad, I'm excited for uh, these women and future young women who have inspirations and have a league where they can come in uh and and pay it forward. And so I'm really excited about the state of it. Absolutely, and they're definitely opening the doors for the next young star who was now growing up watching and dreaming of being in their position. So yes, I think women's college women's basketball in general is in a great place, not even a good place. But you a college you were take me through your recruiting process. You know we're talking about college basketball. Well, let me first say, can Grant Hill you now imagine what seventeen year old Grant Hill would have made, who would have made in the nil world today? With obviously you know we read your accolades and everything that you guys accomplished in ninety one to ninety two. Can you imagine yourself being in the NIL world today? I mean, yeah, I can't imagine. You know, I think I think we all would would have done well. I mean, particularly particularly the high profile programs that you and I played at and then just our games and you know, and just you know, how we played, like I think it would have been exciting. I know when you were in school, you know, Carolina was on TV all the time, and I'm sure I had great ratings, as you know, did our teams and and so yeah, I mean I can only imagine. I also know that it probably would have been very, very different than what I experienced, not not necessarily in the results, although it could have been. But you know, I don't know, there was something about you know, as much as I feel and I'm pro player, and I think we're going through a change right now, and sometimes it's uneasy, sometimes to some it's painful, but college sports is going through a transformation, and part of that is players now are being able to you know, profit off their name, image, likeness, and some could say it's it's you know, it's semi professional if you will, with the transfer portal, but it would have been very different. But I know for me, and I can't speak for everybody who I played with for every contemporary mind, like I enjoyed my experience. I enjoy what I went through. And I also enjoyed the fact that, you know, you didn't have social media. You know, you didn't have the noise and you know, somebody plays poorly and people going at him on Twitter or whatever. You know, we didn't have. We were kind of isolated from all of the noise, you know, and we had our school paper and the Charlotte Observer. That's it. That's it. I mean, we had the school newspaper and you know, the Charlotte Observers, So you know, you didn't you know, and even then, like the newspaper was you know, there was a vetting process and they had an editorial board like you know, like you know, they may they may say, hey, Grant Hill didn't play well, Vince Carter didn't play well, but it wasn't personal, you know, and it wasn't and so you know, it's just a different time and this generation is different and what they've experienced prior to arriving on campus is much much different than what you and I experienced. But I you know, look, I do think of, man like, what that would have been like and how crazy it would have been exactly. Yeah, I mean, man, you wouldn't have been able to tell me nothing, right, you know, that's just so crazy. Let me ask you a question. Did you play? Were you ever a picture of quarterback? No? No, I you know I knew I was around football and knew how to throw a football pretty well, but I never I never played organic But you never played? Okay. The reason I asked that, why you? Why did Coach K choose you for the inbound play for that big shot in that big moment, Because I would put you as a receipt as an athlete. I'm putting you somewhere where I could throw it up, where you can go get it as well. You know, so there's another option to that. But why your coach K is a very wise man. Noo, so he is a wise man. He is a wise man. Look so really I think Youah, so we used to do two man drills to start practice, and you know, you had a partner, you know, one of you gets the rebound, you outlet it and you kind of run the wing and you go in for a layup. That's so old school. Yeah, And then we would, you know, we would go you'd go down the court and then back and then the next time you rebound it, you outlet it. Now you pull up, you know, the guy pitch you, you hit a little jump shot, or you shoot a jump shot. You do that, and then you you know, then the next time it's you know, you catch it on the wing, you throw it back to the person of the free throw line and they shoot. And so we'd go through a series of things that ended with a baseball pass. You know, you start with the ball, the guy's free throw line extended, and he takes off down the court, and you want to throw the ball to where they catch it and they can just lay it in. And so I was always good, like I mean, I could throw the ball like I was around quarterback. Guy was around football. I never played, but I always wanted to be a quarterback. And I would always brag, you know, I'm talking trash like it's in the jeans. It's in the jeans. You know, I make a great pass in practice and you know it's in the jeans. And so but I always was the like, at least the most accurate and and and and those exercises that we did every day. So in that moment, you know, it's my second year. And I even think we did it at the practice at the Spectrum the day before the game. We did that sort of warm up, so you know, I think coach knew that I could throw the ball, you know, three quarters of the length and at least, you know, at least get get into the city. Yeah. And and and then Christian was you know, was was unreal. And I mean he had missed a shot the whole game. He was I think he was ten for ten from the from the free throw line and at that point was nine for nine from the field. And you know, people who were young who maybe weren't there to really understand or experience, uh, those duke teams, Like Christian was incredible as a college player, I mean absolutely dominant and I saw I mean, and he did it against Shack twice. He did it against Alonzo like he did it against you know, the three seven footers in Arizona with Brian, the late Brian Williams and late Sean Rooks and Ed Stoke. Like he brought it every time he played. And so there was never any doubt because there were a couple of options that I could have done, but it was like, you know, I'm throwing the ball to Christian and he already on fire anyway. Yeah, he was on fire anyway, And so it was an incredible moment. You know, there was a great moment, the huddle leading up to the pass and the shot. You know, Sean Woods from Kentucky hits that shot with you know, just a little bit over two seconds and that was the first time that season that I thought, oh, we're not going to the Final four. As I'm walking seriously, I'm walking to the bench. Spring break was the next week at Duke, and I'm thinking, well, I guess I'll be a spring break and I'm thinking, like, man, they to talk about how great it was, I get a chance of experiencing that, Like that's literally going through my mind. And Coach k was brilliant in terms of his leadership in that moment. And first of all, he didn't wait for us to come to the bench. He met us on the court and he was very confident in that we're going to win. And I don't know if he believed it, but he sold it, you know, he sold it to us in that moment, and then what he did and how he went about it. He drew up a play and he said, look, Grant, can you make the past? And I said, I can make the past. And then he asked Christian, can you make the shot? And Christian said, hey, if he makes the past, I'll make the shot. And literally that's what was said. Now, the brilliance in that was that he didn't tell me to do it. He asked me if I could do it, and like I took ownership, I said, yeah, I got it, I can do this, And there's something about saying it and seeing it amongst your teammates in that huddle in that moment, Yes, I got I can do it. And then you know, I mean Christian, who was like, you know, super confident and borderline cocky, air agant. He's like, man, Grant makes the past, I'll make the shot. Like now I'm nervous again, like, oh man, Like now I got I gotta make. But you know, when we exited that huddle, like I believe, like I believe that we were gonna win. And in sport you always have to have beliefs, even coming down to the last few seconds. And you know, I did my part. Nobody was on the ball. You know Christian, you know, he had to catch it. He took a dribble, did a little shimmy and scored. And you know, it's been over thirty years and people still remember it. People still talk about it, even people who weren't even born who've seen it on replay over and over again. So you know, we were kids, man, I knew we were just trying to win a game. We didn't understand the historical significance of that moment. And mind you, people are listening for those who know Christian Laitner was not the most athletic guy in the world. So he had to hold off to get the ball. I mean, he didn't catch it at as hot pointy, but he did a great job of holding off just to be able to get the ball. And then obviously it gets to a chemi mood just able to get that shot off high enough, and it was just like all net And I mean it was a confidence shot. It wasn't no, it wasn't a it wasn't any hesitation at all in that jump shot in that moment, and I think t Hill, his his reaction to it was was top five because I mean, that's why I asked why you and I'm curious. I would love to ask him. Uh No, T Lange, my bad, wasn't he? I think it. T Lange was on the corporate T Hill was the one that they captured. T Hill, That's right. So I just seeing you know him, it's kind of like, oh, my gosh, I can't believe it because maybe there was doubt or is it just you know, obviously just amazing that he made I don't know, just because it's crazy to see everybody's reaction. I mean, obviously your reaction is like, Okay, I believe he can make it, but you never know until you actually see it. Yeah, I mean, you don't know and you know it. You know to me that that play sort of embodies like the joy and the heartbreak of sport and competition, and you know, you just you know, you you have these moments, you have these you know, game winners, you know you have these you know, you know sports pushes you to you know, if I'm if I'm if I'm guarding Vince Carter and I'm really good at defense, I'm going to force you to do something incredible. You know, I'm going to force you to do something that you have in you, but you need someone to almost push you to ring out of you, you know, and and so like moments like that, like you know, it could be Derek Wittenberg and the alley to Lorenzo Charles against Houston. You know, it could be you know, Michael Jordan hitting that shot against Georgetown in nineteen eighty two, Like like you need competition and you need like to be pushed by greatness. Greatness brings greatness out of you. And and and so that to me is sort of a moment of one the heartbreak here Kentucky thinks that they have the game won, but also you know, doing the unthinkable, and and and and you know, so yeah, I mean it was I mean I didn't, like I said, I didn't understand it when it happened. We were just in the moment. But yeah, and then we I don't think we hadn't seen anything like that. I mean I can't recall throwing the ball the link. I think we've seen example since then, Bryce Drew and others, But like I don't recall like, you know, throwing the ball the link to the court two seconds and like what's what's on the line is is it trip to the Final four? And so there was disbelief, Like I was in this. I told you I was thinking about going to Beach Week, going to Dirty Myrtle. You know, it's I heard that. Look, you guys were able to be a very good un l V team that you know, we're rock stars, you know if you would And you know, what was that like the leading up to the game. Obviously, you guys are duke, you know, they're them Like I know, coming out, I'm sure what was said, it's like, let's go shock the world. But leading up into that game, were you guys at a point where you know, it's kind of like every about playing the Fab five really, you know as well, where you guys had like, all right, let's go, let's go upset the world because nobody believes in us right now. You know, that's a great question. I mean, the feeling that we had against Vegas in ninety one was different than the feeling we had against the Fab five the year later. But I'll get to that. So one of the things that Vegas team, who was so dominant, they had everybody back from I think everybody back from that championship in ninety where they you know, they it was the worst, you know, most lopsided win in NCAA Finals history. And you know, we lost three seniors from that team, I'll the Nabby, Robert Brickey, Phil Henderson. And so we got better through the season. You know, we actually won the regular season of the ACC. We got smacked by you guys Carolina and the ACC finals, like y'all beat us by like twenty t twenty five. But we kind of found our rhythm and our peak. We started peaking in the tournament, and you know, we had Vegas, you know, in the semi final, and unlike the year before where we only really had one day to prepare, we had a whole week to prepare. And you know, coach like, Vegas was dominant, like they were people thought UNLV could beat NBA teams, like that's how dominant they were. They were beating everybody. You know, you think you think Yukon was dominant, which they were. Vegas not only destroyed everybody by twenty or more, they destroyed everybody in the regular season by twenty or more. I mean, they were that dominant of a team. And so first of all, what we did was we watched the game from the year before, and we watched it, and we saw that and like we didn't want to run from it, like we wanted to own it. Although I wasn't on that team, but we watched it. So you're sitting there like, oh, man, I could have Yeah, well, I mean, and so you know, are guys returning guys, Bobby Hurley, Christian Ladener, like they were older, they were better. At this point, I was there too. I mean, I played power forward, but I was also the backup point guard. So we had another ballhand, We had another pressure release, you know, against their pressure, and that you know, I think was somewhat helpful as well. And then you know, we just coach build us up. You know. We talked about how we had been in close games all season, you know, we had won them, we had lost them. We practiced in the game situations all season. Vegas had never been in a close game, you know, and so our thing was just keep it close. Let's keep it close because the pressure is on them. And then we even did stuff where we scrimmaged five against seven, you know, to get used to just their speed and their athleticism. And you know, I actually think we were not too far off in terms of athletic It was a different team that year. We were pretty athletic ourselves, but like we practice against seven people on defense, and you know, going into it, we were confident, you know. And it's a funny story. I'll tell this story, man, and hopefully it won't be too long. But we get to Indianapolis, you know, we do all this stuff Thursday, we practice. Friday, we're staying at a holiday in hotel. You know, all the duke people parents are there, and so me and Tony Lang and Brian Davis and one of our managers go to a we go to the whole team goes to a mall. We go somewhere. We had a couple of hours and they had this karaoke booth or this karaoke store, and you go into a recording booth and you sing a song and then you could go record the video. So we go. We go in there and we do temptations and we do you know, Prince nineteen ninety nine. They didn't have a great you know selection, so we those are all great songs, but those right, so yeah, so we can't really sing and we're in there singing and then we make a video and they give us this tap the VCR tapes. So we come back to the hotel this the night before the game, and Tony Lang's dad he would bring his VCR on the road and he would set it up. He had his VCR his toolkit toolbox, and he would set the VCR up and have it record the game, and then all the parents would go back to their room and watch the game after the game. You know, this is before obviously technology and all that. So we come back with the tapes and we're putting the tapes in to show our parents and everybody. Everybody's in there, and we're laughing, and the parents are looking around like or they gonna get their ass kicked tomorrow. Like literally, our parents are looking at it like like my mom and dad told me after the fact, they're like, oh, we just knew y'all were gonna lose. Like y'all out here making videos and you know, I guess it's the equivalent of TikTok and all that other stuff. But we're making we're singing and making videos and all that. But there was like there was a confidence, like we were confident and we believed in Coach k and right away we came out and we kind of punched them early and we just showed them that you know, this is a different year, this is a different team, and you know, things kind of went our way. We made the right place and we were fortunate to win. But really the job, the job was in the preparation and that happened all throughout the week leading up to the final four. So what was the difference between that one and Fab five? So great question. So when we beat Vegas, it was almost like we arrived, you know, we were like it was like it gave us Like it was almost like it was like Tamiyak verse Show Enough and the Last Dragon where you get the glow like you know, like you know what I'm saying, Like it's like or like when Luke's skty Walker all of a sudden, like you know, Yoda has been working with him and then all of a sudden he's a Jedi. Like it was just like instantly like oh, we've arrived and we know what it takes. And we beat Kansas the next day or two days later for the championship and came back the next year and we were pretty dominant. We came back and another thing. This is another great moment. So the Kansas Carolina game happened, and this is when when Dean Smith like got thrown out, which is horrible that like the ref would throw Dee Smith out like it was. But so we're in the hallway and we're getting loose while their game is ending, and then Kansas wins and coach brings us back in the locker room and basically says, like, don't rationalize that Carolina walls because you know, the rivalry between Duke and Carolina, because both schools are in close proximity to one another, the rivalry, like it's almost like we can't let Carolina outd Us, I'll do us, well, we can't, you know what I'm saying, Like, like you could win a championship, but you lose the Carolina three times during the regular during the season, it's almost like it evens out. You know, it's crazy as that me and so it was almost so it was almost like Coach k was like, don't build an excuse to lose because it's okay because Carolina lost, and which was an interesting moment. And Uh, anyway, but to your question, so the next year we came back, we were dominant. We were cocky. We went up to Michigan in December and it was before exam week and it was before they were officially the Fab five. I think Jalen and Chris and Juwan were starting and Jimmy and Ray were still coming off the bench, and you know, we didn't really we didn't respect them. Like, we didn't think they were going to be as good as they were. I knew Chris or they're not ready yet. Yeah, we didn't think they were ready and they hadn't really played anybody of serious, you know, competition, So we kind of came out with a lazy fair attitude. No, and it's not not making an excuse, but like we didn't come like with our a game and they and they brought it and and and they almost beat us, and you know, we got you know, we had a we had a missed missshot. I got the rebound, tipped it out to Bobby. Bobby goes up for a three. This is like with ten seconds left and we're down three, and Weber runs right through Bobby and you know, he goes to the line. So we go to overtime. Chris filed out and we went and so we knew that if we saw them again, like we're gonna, we're gonna we're gonna have the appropriate fear, as Greg Papovitch was. We didn't say that then, but we we knew like, okay, we'll be ready, and you know, and so when we saw them again in the finals, they are obviously had improved. They were the Fab five now. They had an incredible run. But and this may sound crazy, it may sound cocky, like we knew we were gonna win. We knew we were gonna win, and we did, and we were ultimately pulled away in one by twenty. But we were the Vegas now, you know, we were the team that everybody was gunning for, and so we knew what it was like the year before, and and really that that game was an eye opener for us. It was. It was a good game to have as we were about to start the ACC regular season. That you can't overlook anyone just because you're back, you know, defending champions. You got to still come out and play. And now we ended up losing to Carolina that year at Carolina. We were sixteen seventeen to zero going into that game and we lost at at Carolina dang, but we stayed baking, breaking streets, don't we. Yeah, no, us you