The UnshakeablesWhen Don Hejny toured with big country artists, he had a sweaty problem: his glasses would not stay put on his nose. Annoyed at constantly having to adjust them, he took matters into his own hands. He found inspiration from a childhood tool - surf wax - and after three years of tinkering, NerdWax was born. He took his idea to Kickstarter, then to Shark Tank, then finally to Instagram, when he nearly lost all of his sales to an iOS Update.
Join Ben and Kathleen Griffith as they chat with Don about finding inspiration everywhere, how he was his own best product tester, and how he leveraged his appearance on Shark Tank even though he didn’t take the deal. These are The Unshakeables.
Don Hejny was just an average guy with an average problem. His glasses kept sliding down his nose and he was determined to find a solution. Three long years of product testing later he finally had his surf wax inspired, anti-slip glasses wax nailed down.
I'd raise sixty thousand dollars. I now had our first production run of nerd wax. I was like, this is amazing. Everything's going great.
Don got that first shipment in and it was so exciting finally seeing all of his hard work pay off.
And I open up the box and every tube is breaking. Like you go to twist the nerd wax out of the tube, and every single tube is just breaking. The nerd wax doesn't protract out of the tube, The little turning mechanism breaks in your hands. And I was like, how many of these do we have? I think our first initial order was five thousand units.
And there was nothing Don could.
Do with them.
Welcome to The Unsheakables from Chase for Business and Ruby Studio from iHeartMedia. I'm Ben Walter, CEO of Chase for Business. On The Unshakeables, we're sharing the daring moments of small business owners facing their crisis points and telling the stories of how they got through it. Today we're talking to nerds, which makes me feel very comfortable. But I'm also talking to Kathleen Griffith definitely not a nerd. Kathleen, welcome back.
Ben.
Before you say anything else, I want to say how great of a name is nerd Wax for a company.
It's fun.
Don's a fun guy, and I'm excited for this story. I love this small business. And I also have to say I'm a not so secret Star Trek fan.
Yes, I do know that about you. Does that mean there will be a Star Trek mentioned today?
Absolutely? The company we're talking about today is very invested in quote unquote nerd culture.
Ay yes, Okay, Well, well I'm excited to see how we get from surf Wax to Star Trek.
All will be made clear in a moment on today's episode. Nerd Wax from Nashville, Tennessee. Don officially welcome to The Unshakeables.
Thanks Ben.
Don grew up using surf wax. He's from California, and he's a nerd. But it took a while to put those two together.
I used to be a touring audio engineer, I did the Miley Cyrus Best of Both Worlds tour. I did a bunch of radio Disney stuff for a while, so I toured with Everlife. We did a run with the Jonas brothers, worked for Keith Urban for a bit. I did Julianne Huff for a bit.
He moved through the Nashville touring circuit, and week after week he was out on the road and a week after week he had the same issue, namely sweat.
So we would do these outdoor concerts and festivals in the summer, and my glasses were always all over the place. I had tried different solutions like hooks or bands and straps, and none of those worked for me because I wanted something that wouldn't change the look or feel of my glasses. So I wanted to be able to wear my glasses as normal, but then also not have them slide. I just realized, like, hey, if I could make something that would be hydrophobic, so it would block the sweat on your glasses and would stick to your nose pads. I kind of thought surfers use wax on their boards in the water to give them extra friction. I wonder if I could make the same thing, but make a cosmetic grade so that your glasses wouldn't slide your on your nose.
Surf wax, for the non surfers in the room, is a super sticky wax that comes in bar form. You put it on the surfboard to help you get a better grip on the board, and crucially it's made for surfboards, not glasses.
The first time I actually tried this and I scratched the glasses, and then I tried a different surf wax and it made my skin break out, and I was like, I'm going to have to actually formulate something with your skin in mind.
While Don was trying to find the perfect formula for cosmetic grade surf wax that wasn't really surf wax, he was still a full time audio engineer. He'd be out on the road during the week and come home on the weekends.
I would like make a batch in our kitchen and then I would take it out on the road. I would see if it worked or if it didn't work. If I had had like a little touring kitchen with me on the road, it probably wouldn't have taken three years. But it was really just a side hustle I wanted to make it for myself, like I wanted to use it, and because I wanted to use it, I was willing to just do whatever it took to make it.
That was three years of touring and wax that was too sticky or not sticky enough. A lot of people would have given up by now, but Don approached nerd wax the same way he approached his career in music.
My kind of north Star has always been to be creative, the creative process. That's what I love. Taking the seed of an idea, then making that and then seeing it happen in reality. It's magic. There's no other word for it other than it feels like alchemy. It feels like, Oh, I thought of this thing, and now here it is, in real life, right in front of me, and it is the coolest thing. It's just magic.
The magic it paid off.
I arrived at the formula that is still the formula for nerd wax today, and so that's beeswax, coconut oil and gum resin. It's a really simple, all natural formulation.
But by the time he had his formula down, ironically enough, he didn't really need it anymore. He had his wife and three kids, and he was ready to leave life on the road and be with his family.
I get Nerd Wax to the place where I feel like, Okay, I have a product here. I've given it out to friends and family, and I've established that it works. People like it. They're asking me for it. But I have this problem, which is I don't have labels for nerd Wax, and it stops me from handing them out.
Don's worry about packaging was understandable. It's hard to scale a product only available in unmarked tubes.
I needed five grand to do a first run of labels, and I didn't have the cash. I also didn't want to keep spreading it around without it looking like something. I wanted the world to see.
What happened next. It's straight out of a country song.
Right at the same time is when I kind of had this two week period where both of our cars broke down. My wife broke her ankle, I lost my job. Our landlord called and he wouldn't renew our lease. That was the moment that I had to decide if I was going to stay on the road and keep on that course, or if I was going to make a change and do something different.
Don decided to make a change. He needed a way to provide for his family, even if it meant putting his creative projects away for a while.
I got a job working for Dave Ramsey in Nashville.
Dave Ramsey, for those of you who don't know, is a financial advisor based out of Nashville, Tennessee. He's best known for his no nonsense advice on his radio show and podcast, and his cash focused debt payoff methods.
When I was at Dave Ramsey and I was producing the Entrepreneur Leadership podcast, and my job was like to read through these business books, and I was doing a case study on how to start a business with no debt. I had researched a bunch of kickstarters, and I thought, Man, what if I just did a kickstarter for one of my ideas, Like just see if there's product market fit. So twenty fourteen is when I launched my kickstarter for nerd.
Wax Don set a goal of raising five thousand dollars to produce the labels of his dreams.
By noon on the first day of the campaign, we'd reached our five thousand dollars goal, and then by the end of the thirty day campaign, we had raised over sixty thousand dollars.
Don had split his campaign into two timelines. The first round of backers would get theirs in September, the others later that fall. He decided on doing the first run in his house and partnering with the manufacturer for the second.
When we first started, we were filling into lip balm tubes, and lip balm tubes were a great medium at the time because they were really easy to find. Lip Balm tubes are made for lip balm. They're made for a greasy substance, and I was putting this hard, tacky substance inside, and so what would happen is the mechanism that you twist at the bottom of the tube to get the lip balm to come out, that mechanism would break.
Don and his wife managed to get the first batch fixed and sent out for the next order. Don found a manufacturer who could solve the broken lip balm tube issue.
We did some tests with them. Everything looked great. They sent me a batch of nerd wax to test out, and they said, hey, we noticed there's like a few issues with some of these tubes. Can you try them out? And so they sent me a box of them, and I opened up the box and every tube is breaking. All five thousand units come off the line and they're just broken.
Same issue as before, but this time on a much larger scale.
I was asking the manufacturing partner what they could do to fix it, and they were like, this is your thing, We're just filling it for you.
Wow. And did you ever get money back for the bad run.
They made a seat that one.
Oh that's brutal. Yeah, it was brutal, Kathleen, What a terrific story that is, isn't it.
Nerds rule the world.
Nerds do rule the world. He even put in the name.
Of his business avenge of the Nerds.
I mean, that was one of my favorites back in the I have to say that was one of my favorites because we have lots of different types of businesses on The Unshakeables, I have a real affinity for people who make stuff. Partly is my patriotic streak of wanting to manufacture in America, but part of it is also I have a personal proclivity for that. I think it's super interesting when people create a physical good that didn't exist before. But on the flip side. The manufacturing businesses are typically capital intensive businesses, right, Like, it's not like consulting where if your cost is you or the people and you can flex them. You're talking about equipment, you're talking about research and design. This is a different animal.
Right, Ain't that the truth? Yeah, it really is. It's not for the faint of heart.
You know, he was talking about it being left with five thousand units. I mean it's the stakes are real. The stakes are really real, and.
It's never efficient to manufacture in small quantities or rarely efficient. I should say. It means you're always taking that inventory risk when you try something new. And how do you feel about things like crowdfunding in terms of getting something started. It's a brilliant platform because it really does two things. It gives you essentially not free, but discounted marketing, and it gives you advanced cash flow for your manufacturing process, right because people pay now and get later.
Yeah.
I think a lot of times people forget about Kickstarter or it's not really top of mind. But it makes so much sense because you're also seeing what is the real legitimate market appetite for your product. I think a lot of founders don't want that negative feedback. There's a part of them that doesn't want to be told there's no there there. But I think it's a great way to test the waters and see if it works.
Yeah, I'd rather find out I don't have a product market fit before I spend the money than after I spend the money. Are there any lessons you've seen people learn with regard to negotiating with manufacturers, sourcing manufacturers. I mean, you must see your clients go through this all the time. Yeah.
The biggest issue is seeing people moving from home manufacturing doing it themselves, you know, or with friends and family in this very labor intensive way, to then figuring out how to get a manufacturer on board. So there was an entrepreneur that I was advising, she has a skincare business, she's doing it at home, had a bad experience like Don did with a manufacturer, and so went back home. So you see this kind of advance retreat, advance retreat, and the business shrinks or expands as a result of that. Finding the right manufacture is tough and it's a long process. I think people get very overwhelmed by everything you need to do. Once you have an idea, and to break it down really simply, it's you've got an idea right step one. Step two is you've got to do your customer research, which is easier now than ever because you can do it in social media and all these other places. Step three is to create a prototype, a minimally viable product. Step four is to validate that with the market so product market fit. And step five is then to place your orders. And I think that's the piece we can't underscore enough in hearing this too. It can take years, and it doesn't mean your product isn't scalable. It just means it's going to take time to find the right partner.
Okay, let's get back to Don. After the broken tube debacle, Don still worked for Dave Ramsey and nerd Wax was still in the lip balm tubes for better or worse. But now nerd Wax was out in the world and people noticed.
We got a message from the casting director for Shark Tank.
Don applied to the show, thinking he'd never get called. He also filmed his episode, not knowing if it would air. Some don't, but on the chance that it did, they were ready.
So my wife and I and our kids and we hired friends and family to come and help make all of the tubes for our Shark Tank airing. I think I made what I thought would be a year's worth of inventory, and we sold all of it in a single month. And I was like, oh boy, we're in way over our heads.
Here, and do you think that's because of Shark Tank.
It was absolutely because of Shark Tank. So that was the trick is it's like, I don't want to have more inventory than I need, because I don't want to get stuck with, you know, two or three years worth of inventory, but I also want to have enough that we can handle the wave and ride that wave of publicity.
And ride the wave they did.
I remember the weekend our episode aired. I think we shipped four thousand units. It's in a single day. The next day I wake up and we have another thousand orders. We were just laugh crying on the couch in the living room thinking about how crazy this was, that this thing took off on us. So that was really the beginning of the journey. From there, we ran our business out of the house for a few years, and then it got to the point where the business was busting at the seams of that house, and so we moved it out of the house, sold that house, and moved into an industrial space.
Around that time, Don decided to finally commit to nerd wax full time, so he once again went hunting for a manufacturer that wouldn't break all of his tubes.
We had manufacturers that knew how to work with material, and then we had manufacturers that knew how to work with a container. But the ones that knew how to work with a container didn't know how to work with material. And so what we realized in that process is like, we have to actually be the manufacturers for a lot longer if we're going to actually scale this, and we have to find a scalable manufacturing process in order to do that.
Okay, and how did you do that? How did you go about finding that process?
A lot of messing up?
Then done was blessed by the Shark Tank gods. He got an email from someone who had seen his episode.
That said, Hey, I made all these filling machines for Burts bees. I saw you on Shark Tank. Would you like me to build you a machine? I was like, where have you been for the last five years? I've been looking like everywhere for you. He already understands all of the hard parts about what we're doing, and he's got this semi automated machine. We bought that machine from him, custom made, and then it only took two people and basically four hours to do what it took us six people in three days to do.
And just like that, after three years of R and D for the wax and five years of looking for a filling machine, NERD wax was scalable. Life was good. Mostly.
A tornado rips through Nashville right by our house, like a block away from our house. This tornado rips through.
This tornado touchdown in East Nashville in March of twenty twenty.
I hear the tornado ripping through our neighborhood. There's a church two blocks away. I look down the street and the steeple from the church is sitting in the middle of the road. Two weeks later, COVID happens. So we go from tornado to COVID. I am like sending my people home and not knowing if we're going to have a business in the next six months.
Tornado and COVID aside the shark tank, gods smiled on Don again. He got a message from a customer who was using Nerd Wax to seal his mask. He made a video about it and sales exploded. Don had also been kicking around the idea of an anti fog product, foggy mask glasses. Sent them into hyperdrive where Nerd Wax took him three years. Fog Block, as it came to be called, was out in just three months.
And Fog Block just like took off on us. We came out of twenty twenty riding real high, so we expanded our warehouse space, we hired a bunch of people, and we're really just like humming along. And then in spring of twenty twenty one, the mask mandates lift, and simultaneous to that, iOS fourteen comes out and our business just tanks.
Okay, let's talk about iOS fourteen. Don's right when it's mentioned, Even today, I've seen entrepreneurs just Wince. So for D to C brands like nerd wax, online and social media advertisements are a great way to reach your customers. Some of that is just organic traffic to your social media profiles, but for a lot of folks that includes paid ads and performance marketing. iOS fourteen changed the way that almost everyone did performance marketing, which is why it was such a big deal. If you have an iPhone, you've probably seen a pop up about allowing apps to track your data usage. For advertisers, this was crucial information. When that became optional rather than automatic, a lot of folks opted out and it tanked a ton of digital marketing conversions for folks all over the place.
We're spending money on all of the digital platforms social media, Google, Search, and that digital ad spend is actually very efficient. So we're spending a dollar, we're making three to five dollars every time, and we're just focused on top line revenue. It's like, how many of these things can we sell? The iOS update comes out, we go from a three to five ROAS as to a point eight ROAS.
It's an acronym I should mention is an industry term that means return on ad spend. It's a key metric for anyone in performance marketing, and it was a headache for Don.
We're losing twenty cents on every dollar that we sell. I'm at this point spending about seventy thousand dollars a month on ads. I am bleeding money, and I'm watching the sales just decline.
After losing seventy thousand dollars a month, Don decided to pull the ripcord on ad spend.
We go to zero dollars in ad spend. I should have been nurturing the customer base that we had and not just focused on going out and finding new customers. It was bleak. It was one of the hardest times in our business.
The drastic drop in organic sales led Don to a startling realization we hadn't.
Truly built a business. We had just had some fun products that we were selling and we were doing well, but we didn't have an actual business.
Once you pulled it back to the barebones organic sales, how much had been chopped off.
Yeah, so I think we did one point seven million in sales in twenty twenty, then went to one point two in twenty twenty one. Then we went to eight hundred thousand in sales in twenty twenty two. So it's a fifty percent decrease in sales. And we at the same time that we had just started expanding and increasing all of our overhead. It was bad. We had basically had to let everybody go. We had just moved into a five thousand square foot warehouse. It's literally me and my brother in law in this giant warehouse. I think we were making two grand a month.
Don and his brother in law tighten their belts and we're desperately looking for anything that would help them survive.
So back in twenty seventeen, I launched these microfiber claws to clean your glasses with. We had a pizza, taco and a unicorn. I had done them, thinking like, these will be great, and so we launched that and it was just it was cricket.
Don originally tried to push them on social media, and the social media of twenty seventeen was very different than the social media of today. In twenty seventeen, social media was prioritizing photos, not videos.
When I was trying to sell these pizza glasses cloths, they looked like a slice of pizza, and so you take a picture of it and you couldn't really tell what it was. When you're scrolling through Instagram and you see a slice of pizza, you're just like, oh, it's a slice of pizza. You didn't realize that it was a and if you showing it wiping the glasses, you couldn't tell that it was a slice of pizza. It was just like a weird colored cloth.
By the time Don rediscovered the pizza taco cloth in twenty twenty two, social media was firmly in the land of video.
With video and Instagram reels, you could actually see that, hey, this is what looks like a slice of pizza becomes a cleaning cloth and then it cleans glasses and it's like it takes five seconds to show that, and you go, oh wow, I know exactly what that is.
The cloths, they were a hit.
We have three hundred of them and we sold all of them in a couple days, and I was like, wait a second, that was unexpected. So then I put the pizza cloths up. Those selling a couple of days, So I thought maybe it was something about the time that I launched this, and not necessarily the product that I launched.
Don had recently bought a van, but he sold it in favor of buying equipment to make more cloths.
And if people want them, then we'll sell them, and if people don't want them, we're only out one unit. We're not out five thousand units. So we standardized our packaging and we just started making these cloths, and pretty soon we went from our little prototyping rig to six rigs, and so it was like the business became a new business.
Don called this new cloth business Jinkies, which you may remember from Scooby Doo.
All of a sudden, people are asking us for different things, right, so a guy asked us for a slab wag you, then another guy asked us for a tortilla. We did about fifty different designs in that year. We took our Instagram channel from nine thousand users to seventy thousand users, and our sales we did one hundred thousand Jinkies in that first year.
Kathleen Jinkies is going to be stuck in my head for days.
Before we talk about that, we have to discuss the shark in the room. His anecdote about inventory management was so interesting. You don't want to purchase too much, so you're sitting on all this excess inventory, and at the same time, you want to be able to fulfill orders that come in because you might have this deluge from all this massive exposure, And so what's the right mix there? And who would you even go to to ask how much.
Should I have? There's really no there's no rule book around it.
Yeah, I mean on a more toned down basis, that's what many of our both retailers and manufacturers go through every holiday season. Right. How big should I bet on Q four? That's right? Because I've got to order and or manufacture for Q four, and I you know, I'm gonna have a marketing plan and I'm gonna push, But I don't know. I might not be able to sell it all and have to go on steep discount. I might run out early and disappoint customers. And it's a really delicate balance between those two things, right, leaving money on the table or getting stuck in a bind. I think this is really interesting. I think there are two other things that are important themes that come out of it. One is different products that have different shelf lives. You know he talked about its is about two years for nerd wax. The Jinkies are much longer, obviously because they're just fabric. But you know the rate at which the fruit rots matters a lot.
Yeah, yeah, it does.
And how quickly also is a customer cycling through the product I would imagine is going to take a year, year and a half to get through one tube, right, so you don't have that repeat purchase to also have that you know, churn that you're looking for in your business necessarily built in.
Yeah, that's fair enough. There's a really interesting angle on the Jinki's business that he's built because he has something where he can constantly test product market fit before he invests in manufacturing. You know, he'll crowdsource a new design from customers, he'll make a few, see how they sell, and then he'll ramp up production of them. And so he's constantly testing new designs and he only manufactures what sells quickly.
Yeah, this is so good. And with social media too, you really have no reason not to test in this way.
You really can.
Get that feedback quick fast. It's inexpensive. It's not doing consumer focus groups like we used to do. You know that cost of fortune. You can get it now through social in such a powerful way.
Let's talk a little bit about how he sells his product and how he distributes it, because some of this has been a recurring theme on the show, like dependence on one customer or one channel. But what I thought was really interesting was I mean, I remember when the iPhone algorithm changed search engines have done the same with their algorithms over time, so that can happen from time to time. But the lesson for me in there, which I have learned in my career a number of times, is that paid search marketing is a drug, and it is very easy to get addicted to that drug. You can use it, but if you are not at the same time investing in and monitoring the health of your organic brand, when the dealer stops selling, you're in trouble.
It's where most small business owners spend their money, right as in digital marketing and paid advertising more specifically, and so many of them in our conversations are thinking more intensely about building something on borrowed land. You look at Instagram, you look at Facebook, you look at what we're seeing now with TikTok. So what do you make of that building something on a house of cards that could kind of go away tomorrow versus having your own real estate.
Well, I think you have to build a mobile home on someone else's land if you want to take the analogy really far. And what I mean by that is that doesn't mean that paid advertising and digital advertising doesn't have a role. It does, and when you're an unknown brand. It is how you get discovered. But what I've seen is because you can tie that sale directly to that investment, it's easy to, just as I said before, get hooked on it, and you just keep doubling down and tripling down and quadrupling down on that. When you do that, you are attracting lots of one time buyers. You are not investing in your database of loyal customers, and you're not building the brand equity that makes people have an emotional attachment to your product as opposed to a transactional attachment to your product. So my advice is always it's fine to use that as a way to sort of feed the top of the funnel, but you have to nurture that funnel, and you have to plant the seeds to finish the analogy on your own ground. And it's hard to do that a lot of times because the investment in the brand equity kind of marketing is not as immediately gratifying. I spent X, I got Y. It's no I have to spend X, and I have to spend X again, and maybe I have to spend two X, and I have to keep doing that overtime and overtime, But I am building a loyal brand audience that has an emotional attachment to my product and is willing to pay for it. It's harder work, but it's stickier. Okay, let's finish up here with Don. Just like the perfect wax blend, Don had discovered, he also discovered his buyers were pretty sticky too.
I've always wondered how much life is there to this business, like, are people going to really use something called nerd wax forever? And it's been ten years and our sales have just been consistent over time, and so I go, look, there's obviously a market here and people are using this. Year over year, SOD gone up in relation to all of the other products that we've launched. But it's what I intended for to be initially, which was just a good core product that you put on the market and just sells itself.
Right. But Jinkies are now the other half of your business essentially, or most of it.
Yeah, And so now Jinkies has taken up all of our time. We're going to be a US based manufacturer of microfiber. That's what we've been working into.
So I went to visit your factory and you've recently launched a higher end form of Jinkies, right, Yeah, yeah.
So we actually launched a line called Secretly Nerdy and those are like twelve By twelve inch pocket squares that are also microfiber material from Far Away. It'll look like a houndstooth pattern, but then if you look close, it's actually the Star Trek Enterprise. We have one that looks like the artists from Doctor Who. We have some that look like Rebel Fighters. They look like a classic pattern from Far Away. I love the Secretly Nerdy collection. Well, so I have to.
Confess that I am a not so closeted Star Trek fan, and when I came to visit you, I did walk away with a beautiful Star Trek Enterprise Jinky, which I love. Yeah, so what's next for nerd Wax. You're growing the Jinky business. You're going to be a manufacturer. What else is on the horizon.
We're currently building out our manufacturing. I see that being this year and I have no shortage of ideas for things that we can add to our product lineup.
All right, so don I want to finish with something that I ask all the guests who come on The Unshakeables, which is, you know, running a business is really hard. If you had one piece of advice for either aspiring or current business owners out there, what would it be.
Work harder, work smarter. And I see those two things as like pedals on your bicycle, and so working hard is where you start. You just go out and you do it, and you don't know how to do it. You just go out and you work hard and you make it happen. But that will only get you so far, right, like, you get to the end of the crank, and then you got to work smarter, and you get more efficient, and you learn as you go and you make less mistakes, and then that only gets you so far. You get to the end of that crank, and then you have to work harder again.
Don, It's been an absolute pleasure hearing your story. Thank you so much for being on the show.
I appreciate it, Ben, thanks for having me.
I just find it so encouraging to see someone like Don who had this crushing realization in twenty twenty two that he hadn't actually built a business, he just had a product line to fast forward, someone who now has a brand and his business, this brand of nerds, you know, the celebration of nerds and nerds uniting and coming together. Brand marketing increasingly has fallen more and more by the wayside, where people are really not focused on brand and they're more focused on performance marketing. What's my immediate ROI? How am I driving my bottom line? It's this churn and burn, and it's really important not to lose sight of how important brand is because it helps you weather those storms too.
I think the other thing that I took away, he went into it with a product that really wasn't going to build the business ultimately, right, he said it himself, it was an anchor product. I think he picked a niche product, but not a niche segment, because you know what percent of the population wears some form of eyeglasses. It's quite high. So I think he picked a segment as opposed to a product. I think nerd wax is a niche product. I don't think iwear accessories are a niche segment. But I would say, you know, when you are looking at what you want to do, you need to look at the addressable market that is in front of you and decide if that addressable market fits with your business. Goals. And I say that because if you talk to venture capitalists who are investing in high growth tech companies, the first thing they want to see is a gigantic addressable market. But they're looking for home runs only. That's the business model, right, They're not looking for singles up the middle. But if your goal isn't to build something that you can sell for you know, a huge amount of money, but your goal is to be able to generate a business of X size, there might be plenty in the market for you. So understanding the addressable market relative to your ambitions for the business and the competitive space around that is what's important.
Yeah, and it feels like he has a really healthy business. It's holding steady. He's got a hero product that's doing consistently well. He's got great margins on the business. There's not a whole lot of competition.
What you didn't hear, though, is when I went to visit him, I mean I walked in and I said, this might be the happiest place I've been to in a long time. His giant, one hundred and twenty pound rottweiler came lumbering over to me and nuzzled up against me to be pet. Everyone in the factory looked entirely happy to be there. It was like a chill space. They said, yeah, our first priority running this business is to just enjoy ourselves. He didn't say my first priority is to sell this for a gajillion dollars. Now, I think he needs to make a good living on it. He's got a family, and so it's not that he doesn't care about that. But there were clearly lots of things they were trying to balance. And so I always encourage people in your life, whether you work for someone else or you start your own business or anything in between. I encourage you to know what your why is and why you're doing it and what you want to get out of it. Because you know, his wife and brother in law work in the business, and they've clearly found something that works for them and their family.
That's why I love this business, because it like he's so lovable.
Yeah, he's great.
I also love that the business has really lived and breathed what is so emblematic of most small businesses, which is it's this roller coaster ride and you think you're down and out, the business is leveling up year over year over year, and then all of a sudden, it tanks and you're on your knees wondering what you're going to do. And then you find a new product and that has life to it, and then you have this kind of great resurgence and you're up for air again and you're making big bets, and I just I love everything about it.
I love everything about the spirit.
Of this business and what he's done and how courageously he's done it too, while keeping a sense of humor about it all.
Yeah, he's got a terrific thing going.
Yeah, he was a good pick.
Awesome, Kathleen, thanks for being here today, Thanks for having me, Thanks so much for listening to this episode of The Unshakeables. If you liked this episode, please rate and review it next week. Our guest is one of the most energetic people I've ever met. Not only did she start a company and run a foundation that's not even her day job. She's a professional athlete.
You keep going like you bet on yourself.
You keep going, you keep fighting, you keep competing until eventually you get to where you want to be.
I'm Ben Walter, and this is The Unshakeables from Chase for Business and Ruby Studio from iHeartMedia. We'll see you back here soon.
