Welcome to the Truth with Lisa Booth, where we cut through the noise to get to the heart of what matters the biggest issues facing our country today. We've got Jennifer Say on the show. She is president and founder of xx x y Athletics. She's also a former Levi's executive. We found her on the show before she found herself in a little bit of hot water, speaking out against lockdowns and school closures. Well, now she's entered the fray again. She's become a leading voice in the fight for fairness in women's sports. That's the emphasis, the whole basis of her company, XXXY, to keep men out of women's sports. We'll talk about our companies dear Nike campaign which went viral, obviously calling out Nike for not protecting women's sports, and of course, as her background as an elite gymnast, we'll talk to her about Simone Biles, who decided to go after Riley Gains. I'm sure you guys all saw that Twitter exchange. She called Riley a bully. Even you know, criticized Riley's appearance. So why the hell is Simone Biles getting involved in this? Why isn't she protecting women's sports. As Jennifer out that and then from Minnesota to California, we're seeing blue states across the country at odds with the Trump administration doubling down on men and women's sports. I'll get her take on that and so much more. So stay tuned for Jennifer Say, President and founder of xx X Y Athletics.

Welcome to the Truth with Lisa Booth, where we cut through the noise to get to the heart of what matters the biggest issues facing our country today. We've got Jennifer Say on the show. She is president and founder of xx x y Athletics. She's also a former Levi's executive. We found her on the show before she found herself in a little bit of hot water, speaking out against lockdowns and school closures. Well, now she's entered the fray again. She's become a leading voice in the fight for fairness in women's sports. That's the emphasis, the whole basis of her company, XXXY, to keep men out of women's sports. We'll talk about our companies dear Nike campaign which went viral, obviously calling out Nike for not protecting women's sports, and of course, as her background as an elite gymnast, we'll talk to her about Simone Biles, who decided to go after Riley Gains. I'm sure you guys all saw that Twitter exchange. She called Riley a bully. Even you know, criticized Riley's appearance. So why the hell is Simone Biles getting involved in this? Why isn't she protecting women's sports. As Jennifer out that and then from Minnesota to California, we're seeing blue states across the country at odds with the Trump administration doubling down on men and women's sports. I'll get her take on that and so much more. So stay tuned for Jennifer Say, President and founder of xx X Y Athletics.

Well, Jennifer Say, it's great to have you on.

Well, Jennifer Say, it's great to have you on.

I ran into you recently, which was great to see you and see You're in my mind. So I was like, I've got to get you on after the Simone Biles and all this other stuff going on. So I was like, I've got to have you on the show. So I appreciate you making the time.

I ran into you recently, which was great to see you and see You're in my mind. So I was like, I've got to get you on after the Simone Biles and all this other stuff going on. So I was like, I've got to have you on the show. So I appreciate you making the time.

Happy to be here. Thank you for having me.

Happy to be here. Thank you for having me.

So, you know, Jennifer, I had you on previously when we were talking about you know, you took a stand during COVID about school closures and you ended up, you know, put your job in jeopardy as an executive Levi Strauss and Company. You've now entered the fray again on another you know, controversial issue, which you know, really if you think about either of these issues, they shouldn't be controversial. Yet, you know, here we are as a society. But you started a clothing company focused on men and women's sports and keeping men out of women's sports. But we're basically just preserving women's sports for women. Wh I get involved in this fight, I'm.

So, you know, Jennifer, I had you on previously when we were talking about you know, you took a stand during COVID about school closures and you ended up, you know, put your job in jeopardy as an executive Levi Strauss and Company. You've now entered the fray again on another you know, controversial issue, which you know, really if you think about either of these issues, they shouldn't be controversial. Yet, you know, here we are as a society. But you started a clothing company focused on men and women's sports and keeping men out of women's sports. But we're basically just preserving women's sports for women. Wh I get involved in this fight, I'm.

A glutton for punishment.

A glutton for punishment.

Well we think, we think like so I respect it.

Well we think, we think like so I respect it.

Yeah, And you know, you skipped my first sort of internet flogging, which was long time ago, at the beginning of social media. In two thousand and eight, I was actually the first former elite gymnast to speak out about the abuse that happens in gymnastics. I was twenty years out of the sport and still suffering from the you know, emotional and physical abuse, and I wrote a book about it called Choked Up. And you would think now in hindsight, that people would have wanted to know about that, but that certainly was not the response I got. And I was harassed and bullied by all the sport governing bodies, which it.

Yeah, And you know, you skipped my first sort of internet flogging, which was long time ago, at the beginning of social media. In two thousand and eight, I was actually the first former elite gymnast to speak out about the abuse that happens in gymnastics. I was twenty years out of the sport and still suffering from the you know, emotional and physical abuse, and I wrote a book about it called Choked Up. And you would think now in hindsight, that people would have wanted to know about that, but that certainly was not the response I got. And I was harassed and bullied by all the sport governing bodies, which it.

Relates to what I'm going to tell you. Now.

Relates to what I'm going to tell you. Now.

You know, these governing bodies they're not They are not in it to protect the athletes. They never have been, and they won't do the right thing unless their hand is forced and I think we're seeing that now. And you see the wide range of governing bodies, from the US Olympic Committee to the individual sport governing bodies which allow males to compete in women's sports, to the NCAA, which has a really pathetic toothless policy in place. They just won't they won't. They're they're sort of catering to sponsors and sponsorship dollars, and you know, the loudest most, the loudest bullies really, and the irony in this situation, as far as you know women's sports is concerned, is the loudest bullies are the minority, but they're effective bullies and they keep the majority of the eighty percent silent.

You know, these governing bodies they're not They are not in it to protect the athletes. They never have been, and they won't do the right thing unless their hand is forced and I think we're seeing that now. And you see the wide range of governing bodies, from the US Olympic Committee to the individual sport governing bodies which allow males to compete in women's sports, to the NCAA, which has a really pathetic toothless policy in place. They just won't they won't. They're they're sort of catering to sponsors and sponsorship dollars, and you know, the loudest most, the loudest bullies really, and the irony in this situation, as far as you know women's sports is concerned, is the loudest bullies are the minority, but they're effective bullies and they keep the majority of the eighty percent silent.

And that's why I wanted to start.

And that's why I wanted to start.

The brand, because you know, I have a long history of brand building twenty three years at Levi's. I was a former elite athlete who's been out spoken and about the protection and empowerment and female athletes. And I looked around with all the other brands who claim to protect women and claim to champion women, but they do nothing of the sort.

The brand, because you know, I have a long history of brand building twenty three years at Levi's. I was a former elite athlete who's been out spoken and about the protection and empowerment and female athletes. And I looked around with all the other brands who claim to protect women and claim to champion women, but they do nothing of the sort.

They actually treat them with astonishing disregards.

They actually treat them with astonishing disregards.

So I figured, you know, I don't mind saying true but controversial things. And I think a brand can help make it cool to stand.

So I figured, you know, I don't mind saying true but controversial things. And I think a brand can help make it cool to stand.

Up and protect women.

Up and protect women.

So that's really my goal is to influence the culture, because I think the legislation and the politics, you know, are downstream from culture, but we've been losing the cultural battle. So I want to contribute to turning that around.

So that's really my goal is to influence the culture, because I think the legislation and the politics, you know, are downstream from culture, but we've been losing the cultural battle. So I want to contribute to turning that around.

So real quick, I want to set back to your first entry into here, being a Glutton of punishment A And you're talked up the autobiography because you also were one of the producers of Athlete, a, a documentary on about Larry Nasar, that that scandal at USA Gymnastics. It won an Emmy for in twenty twenty four Outstanding Investigative Documentary. But why would you be why would you get in trouble for that?

So real quick, I want to set back to your first entry into here, being a Glutton of punishment A And you're talked up the autobiography because you also were one of the producers of Athlete, a, a documentary on about Larry Nasar, that that scandal at USA Gymnastics. It won an Emmy for in twenty twenty four Outstanding Investigative Documentary. But why would you be why would you get in trouble for that?

Why is it second?

Why is it second?

I mean, because this is a guy who was charged with sexually assaulting at least two hundred and sixty five young women and girls. This is someone who was sentenced to sixty years in federal president This is someone who pled guilty to possession of child pornography, who you know, was then sentenced to an additional forty to one hundred and seventy years in the Michigan Department of Corrections. I mean, the list goes on. Yeah, this guy did to young girls and women, So why the hell would that be controversial for you stand out there, Well, you would.

I mean, because this is a guy who was charged with sexually assaulting at least two hundred and sixty five young women and girls. This is someone who was sentenced to sixty years in federal president This is someone who pled guilty to possession of child pornography, who you know, was then sentenced to an additional forty to one hundred and seventy years in the Michigan Department of Corrections. I mean, the list goes on. Yeah, this guy did to young girls and women, So why the hell would that be controversial for you stand out there, Well, you would.

Think that it wouldn't be Lisa. But this was two thousand and eight. It was before the Me Too movement. And to be clear, I didn't write about Nasar. I didn't know Nassar. He started right when I was leaving the sport as a quote unquote doctor for USA Gymnastics. We overlapped by one year, but I never met him. I wrote about the national team coach who took Team USA to the Olympics in Los Angeles in nineteen eighty four, who was a serial sexual creditor. He was a very well respected coach. You weren't supposed to say these things. And again I'm going to take you back. It was before me Too. You weren't supposed to listen to women. Certainly weren't supposed to listen to these little girls, which you know, we were like little wind up, you know, wind us up, go do the thing, keep your mouth shut, be obedient.

Think that it wouldn't be Lisa. But this was two thousand and eight. It was before the Me Too movement. And to be clear, I didn't write about Nasar. I didn't know Nassar. He started right when I was leaving the sport as a quote unquote doctor for USA Gymnastics. We overlapped by one year, but I never met him. I wrote about the national team coach who took Team USA to the Olympics in Los Angeles in nineteen eighty four, who was a serial sexual creditor. He was a very well respected coach. You weren't supposed to say these things. And again I'm going to take you back. It was before me Too. You weren't supposed to listen to women. Certainly weren't supposed to listen to these little girls, which you know, we were like little wind up, you know, wind us up, go do the thing, keep your mouth shut, be obedient.

You know. Further, the party.

You know. Further, the party.

Line about USA Gymnastics being you know, this factory of happy little pixie gymnasts.

Line about USA Gymnastics being you know, this factory of happy little pixie gymnasts.

You weren't supposed to talk about it, and I talked about it.

You weren't supposed to talk about it, and I talked about it.

And you know what the reason I did it was because I was suffering. Twenty years later, I was almost forty years old and I was still struggling. I was this successful person, I was a mom too kids, successful in the corporate arena, and yet the fact that I'd endured this intense physical and emotional abuse for over ten years in the sport, I struggled with anxiety, depression, very low self esteem. And you know, I really wrote the book not to be a whistleblower, but to try to make sense of it for myself and to try to expose the issue to protect other young girls doing the sport. I didn't want them to have to go through what I'd gone through. And it was a long haul because right when I wrote the book, I mean, the wider community, like regular people sort of read it and looked at and said, yeah, that seems feasible that could be going on in the sport. But the pr campaign against me by the US Olympic Committee, USA Gymnastics, and you know, my own teammates from both teams and.

And you know what the reason I did it was because I was suffering. Twenty years later, I was almost forty years old and I was still struggling. I was this successful person, I was a mom too kids, successful in the corporate arena, and yet the fact that I'd endured this intense physical and emotional abuse for over ten years in the sport, I struggled with anxiety, depression, very low self esteem. And you know, I really wrote the book not to be a whistleblower, but to try to make sense of it for myself and to try to expose the issue to protect other young girls doing the sport. I didn't want them to have to go through what I'd gone through. And it was a long haul because right when I wrote the book, I mean, the wider community, like regular people sort of read it and looked at and said, yeah, that seems feasible that could be going on in the sport. But the pr campaign against me by the US Olympic Committee, USA Gymnastics, and you know, my own teammates from both teams and.

My private club.

My private club.

It's like, this is going to relate if we talk about Simo. But you are you are You come up in the sport to be seen and not heard. You must be obedient. It's a it's a subjective sport. If you if you are disobedient, you won't make the team, You'll get kicked off. I you know, all of these girls who grew up to become women, they were still sort of seeking the.

It's like, this is going to relate if we talk about Simo. But you are you are You come up in the sport to be seen and not heard. You must be obedient. It's a it's a subjective sport. If you if you are disobedient, you won't make the team, You'll get kicked off. I you know, all of these girls who grew up to become women, they were still sort of seeking the.

Approval of their abusers, of their coaches, and.

Approval of their abusers, of their coaches, and.

So I was, you know, threatening to expose the reality of sport, and they didn't want any part of it.

So I was, you know, threatening to expose the reality of sport, and they didn't want any part of it.

But I think about this a lot.

But I think about this a lot.

If they had, If USA Gymnastics had investigated my claims in the book, and I talked a lot about my personal coaches who abused in plain sight on the competition floor, if they had investigated those claims instead of villain I, you know, villifying me, hundreds of victims would have been saved.

If they had, If USA Gymnastics had investigated my claims in the book, and I talked a lot about my personal coaches who abused in plain sight on the competition floor, if they had investigated those claims instead of villain I, you know, villifying me, hundreds of victims would have been saved.

Over one hundred Naser victims would have been saved.

Over one hundred Naser victims would have been saved.

But they were already covering up his abuse at that time.

But they were already covering up his abuse at that time.

And so that is one of the things I thought about.

And so that is one of the things I thought about.

I was like, they're going so hard after me, they have something even bigger they're hiding. I didn't know it was Naser, but I tell you the Donna Peters story. He was the Olympic team coach I spoke about that was that kind of rock the gymnastics world. He's now banned from the sport.

I was like, they're going so hard after me, they have something even bigger they're hiding. I didn't know it was Naser, but I tell you the Donna Peters story. He was the Olympic team coach I spoke about that was that kind of rock the gymnastics world. He's now banned from the sport.

I mean, he raked Olympic level athletes.

I mean, he raked Olympic level athletes.

We've got more with Jennifer, but first folks were saying something truly disturbing. Anti Semitism is on the rise around the world, and sadly right here in America, schools being targeted, synagogues threatened, families living in fear. It's something we hoped we never see again in our lifetime. And let me say this, silence is just not an option. This is the moment to take a stand. That's why I want to tell you about the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews or IFCJ. They're on the front lines providing real help where it's needed most. They're giving food and shelter to Jewish families under threat, building bomb shelters for children, helping survivors of hate rebuild their lives. And they don't just respond to crisis, they work every day to prevent it. Your gift of only forty five dollars will help support their life saving work by helping provide food, shelter, and so much more. The Bible says, I will bless those who bless you. Supporting IFDJ is a spiritual stand. It's showing up for God's people when it counts the most. So please call eight eight eight four a eight IFCJ. That's eight eight eight four a eight four three two five or go to IFCJ dot org. Every dollar helps. Please don't wait be the difference? Is it I f TJ dot org or called a eight four a eight I s c J. Now did you get any apologies when the NASAR stuff came out?

We've got more with Jennifer, but first folks were saying something truly disturbing. Anti Semitism is on the rise around the world, and sadly right here in America, schools being targeted, synagogues threatened, families living in fear. It's something we hoped we never see again in our lifetime. And let me say this, silence is just not an option. This is the moment to take a stand. That's why I want to tell you about the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews or IFCJ. They're on the front lines providing real help where it's needed most. They're giving food and shelter to Jewish families under threat, building bomb shelters for children, helping survivors of hate rebuild their lives. And they don't just respond to crisis, they work every day to prevent it. Your gift of only forty five dollars will help support their life saving work by helping provide food, shelter, and so much more. The Bible says, I will bless those who bless you. Supporting IFDJ is a spiritual stand. It's showing up for God's people when it counts the most. So please call eight eight eight four a eight IFCJ. That's eight eight eight four a eight four three two five or go to IFCJ dot org. Every dollar helps. Please don't wait be the difference? Is it I f TJ dot org or called a eight four a eight I s c J. Now did you get any apologies when the NASAR stuff came out?

Now? What happened?

Now? What happened?

And you know you don't find this sort of amusing is a lot Well, first of all, you know a lot of when when the NASA story was being broken, it was really not well known athletes that were doing it. It wasn't the simobiles and the alley raisements of the world, and they were just dragged across the internet. I mean, these young women.

And you know you don't find this sort of amusing is a lot Well, first of all, you know a lot of when when the NASA story was being broken, it was really not well known athletes that were doing it. It wasn't the simobiles and the alley raisements of the world, and they were just dragged across the internet. I mean, these young women.

I watched it. I'm fuld on social media.

I watched it. I'm fuld on social media.

I knew it was coming because I've been speaking with the journalists who were breaking the story and they you know, all the typical tropes you hear, the accusations of sexual assault survivor. You know, she was a slut, it was what what was she wearing? Kind of criticism. You know, these are not reliable narrators, These are terrible women. She wasn't a good gymnast, like all this stupid stuff. And then within a week or two weeks there were fifty credible claims and it kept growing, so then it became too big to ignore. But a lot of the young women who supported that you didn't even know who I was from ten years earlier. But the ones who had really tried to kind of take me down for saying they just pretended overnight they'd always supported me. I mean, it was just like total amnesia, no apologies.

I knew it was coming because I've been speaking with the journalists who were breaking the story and they you know, all the typical tropes you hear, the accusations of sexual assault survivor. You know, she was a slut, it was what what was she wearing? Kind of criticism. You know, these are not reliable narrators, These are terrible women. She wasn't a good gymnast, like all this stupid stuff. And then within a week or two weeks there were fifty credible claims and it kept growing, so then it became too big to ignore. But a lot of the young women who supported that you didn't even know who I was from ten years earlier. But the ones who had really tried to kind of take me down for saying they just pretended overnight they'd always supported me. I mean, it was just like total amnesia, no apologies.

That kind of leads us too. Oh my god, Simone Biles, I'm you know, need more coffee. But anyways kind of gets to her, you know, with this latest attack against Riley Gaines, who we all know and I know you know, and she's been a part of your company as well and protecting women's sports, and so she went after Riley even made it personal, like basically said she looked like a dude. Yeah, called her a bully for trying to stand up for women, you know, so that basically we should be standing up for these men and women's sports. Why do you think she decided to attack Riley and like, you know, why not protect women's sports.

That kind of leads us too. Oh my god, Simone Biles, I'm you know, need more coffee. But anyways kind of gets to her, you know, with this latest attack against Riley Gaines, who we all know and I know you know, and she's been a part of your company as well and protecting women's sports, and so she went after Riley even made it personal, like basically said she looked like a dude. Yeah, called her a bully for trying to stand up for women, you know, so that basically we should be standing up for these men and women's sports. Why do you think she decided to attack Riley and like, you know, why not protect women's sports.

Yeah, it's a conundrum. I gotta say, No one can figure it out. She doesn't really post on Twitter much and yet she went on his chair against Riley.

Yeah, it's a conundrum. I gotta say, No one can figure it out. She doesn't really post on Twitter much and yet she went on his chair against Riley.

It's unusual.

It's unusual.

A lot of people are speculating it wasn't her, but at this point she's not disavaliant. In fact, she's retweeted herself. So I think she stands by it. You know, I would go back to the mindset of a young gymnast, which is that of an approval seeker. And I think in her circles this you know, in ours, she got dragged, but in her own circle, I think she's gotten tons of you know, applause. If you look in you know, gymnastics circles, people are cheering for her and they're hoping she does me next. So, you know, I think it was an approval seeking tactic, and I think she didn't think about it much.

A lot of people are speculating it wasn't her, but at this point she's not disavaliant. In fact, she's retweeted herself. So I think she stands by it. You know, I would go back to the mindset of a young gymnast, which is that of an approval seeker. And I think in her circles this you know, in ours, she got dragged, but in her own circle, I think she's gotten tons of you know, applause. If you look in you know, gymnastics circles, people are cheering for her and they're hoping she does me next. So, you know, I think it was an approval seeking tactic, and I think she didn't think about it much.

I think it was impetuous and I.

I think it was impetuous and I.

Think she everyone she knows agrees with her, and so she was probably surprised by the backlash.

Think she everyone she knows agrees with her, and so she was probably surprised by the backlash.

I think what'sonic.

I think what'sonic.

There's several things ironic about it is, you know, she's been this champion of body positivity and yet, as you mentioned, she body shamed Riley for looking manly because she's muscular, which is, you know, absurd. Who's more muscular than Amone Biles. Riley is a totally normal sized woman for an actual woman.

There's several things ironic about it is, you know, she's been this champion of body positivity and yet, as you mentioned, she body shamed Riley for looking manly because she's muscular, which is, you know, absurd. Who's more muscular than Amone Biles. Riley is a totally normal sized woman for an actual woman.

She's small as a swimmer. So that was just ridiculous and mean spirited. I mean, the whole thing was me and spirited, mean spirited.

She's small as a swimmer. So that was just ridiculous and mean spirited. I mean, the whole thing was me and spirited, mean spirited.

It's also at odds with the brand that she represents, Athleta, whose tagline is the Power of She and all they do is talk about empowering women and body positivity. So, you know, direct conflict with Athleta.

It's also at odds with the brand that she represents, Athleta, whose tagline is the Power of She and all they do is talk about empowering women and body positivity. So, you know, direct conflict with Athleta.

It just it's puzzling. She could have said nothing.

It just it's puzzling. She could have said nothing.

But it also showed very little understanding of the conflict within this you know movement, because she suggested that Riley advocate for a third category the quote unquote trans advocates the trans people. They don't want a third category. They've rejected it. USA Swimming tried it, no one signed up. They insist on being validated as actual women. They insist on invading our sports in our spaces, So her recommendation is actually considered quote unquote transphobic.

But it also showed very little understanding of the conflict within this you know movement, because she suggested that Riley advocate for a third category the quote unquote trans advocates the trans people. They don't want a third category. They've rejected it. USA Swimming tried it, no one signed up. They insist on being validated as actual women. They insist on invading our sports in our spaces, So her recommendation is actually considered quote unquote transphobic.

By the activist class. So you know, her post also showed that she doesn't.

By the activist class. So you know, her post also showed that she doesn't.

Really know very much about this debate and this conflict, which Riley obviously doesn't and I do as well. So the whole thing was just it was like an unprovoked, unforced error. She didn't need to say anything. I mean, I wish she'd say something and she'd be on our side. And you know, people have dug up all tweets at this point showing that she does actually understand that men and women are different.

Really know very much about this debate and this conflict, which Riley obviously doesn't and I do as well. So the whole thing was just it was like an unprovoked, unforced error. She didn't need to say anything. I mean, I wish she'd say something and she'd be on our side. And you know, people have dug up all tweets at this point showing that she does actually understand that men and women are different.

And I know people in.

And I know people in.

Her circle that know her who are scratching their heads about this as well.

Her circle that know her who are scratching their heads about this as well.

Is she tweet out pro I think it was like twenty seventeen or something, some tweet about how like good thing men don't play against us, we would lose our you know, So it's like, clearly she's just like we'd lose all over metal. So clearly, you know, she understands that men and women are built differently. To your point, and I get your point, and I think it's a good one that maybe in her you know, immediate circle, like it's a pat on the back, you know, like you're so brave whatever, whatever. But that being said, bigger picture, with the majority of Americans, they're with us on this issue. And even if you look at liberal states like California, there was a twenty twenty five pole by the non partisan Public Policy Institute of California finding that found that sixty five percent of likely Californy voters support requiring athletes to compete based off of their biological sex rather than gender. And this is a liberal state of California where sixty five percent of voters agree with what we're talking about. And obviously California has you know, been a point of controversy with Aby Hernandez, a sixteen year old man competing in track and field, the spark title my investigation by the Department of Justice, you know, et cetera, et cetera. But like she's going against an issue where even in liberal states the majority of Americans are on her side.

Is she tweet out pro I think it was like twenty seventeen or something, some tweet about how like good thing men don't play against us, we would lose our you know, So it's like, clearly she's just like we'd lose all over metal. So clearly, you know, she understands that men and women are built differently. To your point, and I get your point, and I think it's a good one that maybe in her you know, immediate circle, like it's a pat on the back, you know, like you're so brave whatever, whatever. But that being said, bigger picture, with the majority of Americans, they're with us on this issue. And even if you look at liberal states like California, there was a twenty twenty five pole by the non partisan Public Policy Institute of California finding that found that sixty five percent of likely Californy voters support requiring athletes to compete based off of their biological sex rather than gender. And this is a liberal state of California where sixty five percent of voters agree with what we're talking about. And obviously California has you know, been a point of controversy with Aby Hernandez, a sixteen year old man competing in track and field, the spark title my investigation by the Department of Justice, you know, et cetera, et cetera. But like she's going against an issue where even in liberal states the majority of Americans are on her side.

She is I doubt she knew that going in, Like I said, she clearly was not well burst in the issue and the sort of you know, the conflict and the data, I mean.

She is I doubt she knew that going in, Like I said, she clearly was not well burst in the issue and the sort of you know, the conflict and the data, I mean.

I don't think she knew any of it.

I don't think she knew any of it.

She just it was a very impetuous thing to curry favor with her fans, and she got it from her brands. There's a lot of you know, go girl type clapping from her fans. I just don't think she anticipated or even knew that the vast majority of Americans agree with us.

She just it was a very impetuous thing to curry favor with her fans, and she got it from her brands. There's a lot of you know, go girl type clapping from her fans. I just don't think she anticipated or even knew that the vast majority of Americans agree with us.

She had no idea. I don't think she's I mean, I'm not.

She had no idea. I don't think she's I mean, I'm not.

Look, you grew up an athlete and you're training five, six, seven hours a day.

Look, you grew up an athlete and you're training five, six, seven hours a day.

You're not reading the newspaper. I just don't think.

You're not reading the newspaper. I just don't think.

She's probably well versed in the issue at all. She clearly isn't, and I don't think she anticipated it.

She's probably well versed in the issue at all. She clearly isn't, and I don't think she anticipated it.

It was it was a dumb move. And I will say this one other thing.

It was it was a dumb move. And I will say this one other thing.

I will say, though, despite the fact that eighty percent of Americans agree with us, it's you know, close to seventy percent of even Democrats, it doesn't feel like it at least that when you're out here talking about it, because the vast majority are still silent because of how punitive the minority is and how bullying they are. And you know, the other side kind of owns the legacy media and they own the major institutions, and they own the sport governing bodies and the universities.

I will say, though, despite the fact that eighty percent of Americans agree with us, it's you know, close to seventy percent of even Democrats, it doesn't feel like it at least that when you're out here talking about it, because the vast majority are still silent because of how punitive the minority is and how bullying they are. And you know, the other side kind of owns the legacy media and they own the major institutions, and they own the sport governing bodies and the universities.

And so it's easy to think.

And so it's easy to think.

That our position is the minority position, and when it is not. Because so many people don't say anything.

That our position is the minority position, and when it is not. Because so many people don't say anything.

You've got to take a quick break. More at Jennifer on the other side. One thing that frustrates me is like, there's a danger here, right. We've already seen athletes get injured. We just saw Peyton McNabb, who attended President Trump's joint address to Congress, who suffered major injuries, injuries as a volleyball player. We saw, you know, a Massachusetts player had her teeth knocked out. A field hockey player had her teeth knocked out. I mean, I played field hockey, lacrosse in high school. You know, I was on the Olympic development program for field hockey, and I mean I've been hitting the hall the head before the field hockey bault. One time it knocked me to my knees. That's how hard I got hit. So I can't imagine at you know, any sort of increased force at the hands of a man. So I think one thing that frustrates me is like, there's no not as much conversation about the danger and putting men out there, you know, or even you look at this Champlain Park, you know, winning the Minnesota State High school softball championship with a male pitcher. I mean like if he hit a woman, that's going to do a lot more damage than if you get hit by you know, another woman. So I mean, what do you make about that in terms of just inherent danger that this is presenting women?

You've got to take a quick break. More at Jennifer on the other side. One thing that frustrates me is like, there's a danger here, right. We've already seen athletes get injured. We just saw Peyton McNabb, who attended President Trump's joint address to Congress, who suffered major injuries, injuries as a volleyball player. We saw, you know, a Massachusetts player had her teeth knocked out. A field hockey player had her teeth knocked out. I mean, I played field hockey, lacrosse in high school. You know, I was on the Olympic development program for field hockey, and I mean I've been hitting the hall the head before the field hockey bault. One time it knocked me to my knees. That's how hard I got hit. So I can't imagine at you know, any sort of increased force at the hands of a man. So I think one thing that frustrates me is like, there's no not as much conversation about the danger and putting men out there, you know, or even you look at this Champlain Park, you know, winning the Minnesota State High school softball championship with a male pitcher. I mean like if he hit a woman, that's going to do a lot more damage than if you get hit by you know, another woman. So I mean, what do you make about that in terms of just inherent danger that this is presenting women?

Yeah, I mean.

Yeah, I mean.

There's absolutely danger, not just in full uh you know, in combat sports, which is ridiculous. You know, like we saw at the Olympics over the summer with a monic leef. You know, results of that sexcess thing have now been made public. He is, in fact a man, as we knew all along that he's not trans I understand that. But the same issue as at play, and then a male was competing on.

There's absolutely danger, not just in full uh you know, in combat sports, which is ridiculous. You know, like we saw at the Olympics over the summer with a monic leef. You know, results of that sexcess thing have now been made public. He is, in fact a man, as we knew all along that he's not trans I understand that. But the same issue as at play, and then a male was competing on.

The biggest stage.

The biggest stage.

In sports, and so the championship the gold model from a woman. That's incredibly dangerous obviously in a combat sport. And then you have contact sports like what you're describing, whether it's you know, volleyball, even soccer is high contact basketball, it is incredibly danger Durissmen are bigger and stronger, and I really am terrified that.

In sports, and so the championship the gold model from a woman. That's incredibly dangerous obviously in a combat sport. And then you have contact sports like what you're describing, whether it's you know, volleyball, even soccer is high contact basketball, it is incredibly danger Durissmen are bigger and stronger, and I really am terrified that.

What is going to end this or put us on a different.

What is going to end this or put us on a different.

Path at least is a very serious injury to a woman. Now, these injuries are brushed off, you know, they even brush off Peyton's injury, which is a permanent.

Path at least is a very serious injury to a woman. Now, these injuries are brushed off, you know, they even brush off Peyton's injury, which is a permanent.

Brain damage. I mean, she cannot participate in sports in college, she has trouble with memory, she has all kinds of cognitive challenges that she didn't have before the injury. But of course they brush it off as well. Sports are dangerous. They are dangerous, but we have.

Brain damage. I mean, she cannot participate in sports in college, she has trouble with memory, she has all kinds of cognitive challenges that she didn't have before the injury. But of course they brush it off as well. Sports are dangerous. They are dangerous, but we have.

An obligation, the governing bodies have an obligation to make them as safe as is possible because there is already inherent danger. And I'll tell you a brief story. I competed on the world stage. I was at World Championships in nineteen eighty five and I broke my femur. And there was a rule at the time that a coach could not be on the podium when you know, quote unquote spot an athlete, you know, in case if.

An obligation, the governing bodies have an obligation to make them as safe as is possible because there is already inherent danger. And I'll tell you a brief story. I competed on the world stage. I was at World Championships in nineteen eighty five and I broke my femur. And there was a rule at the time that a coach could not be on the podium when you know, quote unquote spot an athlete, you know, in case if.

They fell, et cetera. They changed the rule just days after my injury.

They fell, et cetera. They changed the rule just days after my injury.

Because you know, while I would have still fallen, I wouldn't have had this devastating.

Because you know, while I would have still fallen, I wouldn't have had this devastating.

Injury, breaking my femur in half.

Injury, breaking my femur in half.

So it's the governing body's obligation to make the sports as safe as is possible, and they're.

So it's the governing body's obligation to make the sports as safe as is possible, and they're.

Not doing that.

Not doing that.

I don't understand why it's not more of a focus. But I don't understand why more people aren't just standing up and saying this is ridiculous. I mean, the fact is the eighty percent stood up.

I don't understand why it's not more of a focus. But I don't understand why more people aren't just standing up and saying this is ridiculous. I mean, the fact is the eighty percent stood up.

It would change now.

It would change now.

The fact is if Nike said something and they Wade and the biggest name in sports, bigger than the NFL and the NBA, if they said, you know what, it's not fair. Women deserve their own sports, it would be over tomorrow.

The fact is if Nike said something and they Wade and the biggest name in sports, bigger than the NFL and the NBA, if they said, you know what, it's not fair. Women deserve their own sports, it would be over tomorrow.

You took on Nike in an ad with xxx Y Dear Nike campaign. Why'd you decide to take on Nike? And what was the reaction to that?

You took on Nike in an ad with xxx Y Dear Nike campaign. Why'd you decide to take on Nike? And what was the reaction to that?

That's been I think our most viral ad to date, or at least the second most viral. The reason I did is because I think they are the epitome of woke capitalism. The hypocrisy, furthered by this brands is astonishing to me. They pretend to champion women and empower female athletes, and they treat them with such this regard and those have been very public instances, and they treat their own female.

That's been I think our most viral ad to date, or at least the second most viral. The reason I did is because I think they are the epitome of woke capitalism. The hypocrisy, furthered by this brands is astonishing to me. They pretend to champion women and empower female athletes, and they treat them with such this regard and those have been very public instances, and they treat their own female.

Employees with terrible disregard as well.

Employees with terrible disregard as well.

There was a scandal about the way female executives have been harassed.

There was a scandal about the way female executives have been harassed.

There was the Alison Felix scandal.

There was the Alison Felix scandal.

And then the Mary Caine scandal, who was a young runner in their running program who was abused mentally and physically to the point of suicidality. And of course Alison Felix, her contract was not renewed when when she became pregnant and she was you know, world champion, Olympic champion runner. So I just it just rankles me that they can make money off of pretending to champion women while putting Dylan mulvaney another instance, you know, in a running bra a non athlete with no boobs.

And then the Mary Caine scandal, who was a young runner in their running program who was abused mentally and physically to the point of suicidality. And of course Alison Felix, her contract was not renewed when when she became pregnant and she was you know, world champion, Olympic champion runner. So I just it just rankles me that they can make money off of pretending to champion women while putting Dylan mulvaney another instance, you know, in a running bra a non athlete with no boobs.

To market their products.

To market their products.

They just they treat women terribly, and yet the public seems to buy this idea that they empower women. And I wanted to expose that and the response was fantastic. I mean, I think we generated with no paid media, close to twenty million views.

They just they treat women terribly, and yet the public seems to buy this idea that they empower women. And I wanted to expose that and the response was fantastic. I mean, I think we generated with no paid media, close to twenty million views.

That is amazing and obviously, you know, great attention to your brand and then also more importantly to the broader issue of protecting women's sports. Before we go, what do you hope to accomplish with.

That is amazing and obviously, you know, great attention to your brand and then also more importantly to the broader issue of protecting women's sports. Before we go, what do you hope to accomplish with.

Your company? Well, it's two both.

Your company? Well, it's two both.

I mean, I want to influence this conversation. I want to make it cool to stand up and say men and women are different, and women deserve their own sports and spaces. I also want to empower female athletes. I want us to be the only brand that actually does it and doesn't just pretend to do it.

I mean, I want to influence this conversation. I want to make it cool to stand up and say men and women are different, and women deserve their own sports and spaces. I also want to empower female athletes. I want us to be the only brand that actually does it and doesn't just pretend to do it.

But in order to be.

But in order to be.

An effective advocate, I need to be financially successful as well. And I need to make amazing product and I need people to want to wear it and buy it and be part of that grassroots movement. So you know, I want to empower female athletes and build a very successful, profitable business.

An effective advocate, I need to be financially successful as well. And I need to make amazing product and I need people to want to wear it and buy it and be part of that grassroots movement. So you know, I want to empower female athletes and build a very successful, profitable business.

Both of those things.

Both of those things.

Well, it seems like you're on your way already, Jennifer Say. It was great to run into you recently and also just great to have you on the show. I appreciate your time, appreciate what you're doing.

Well, it seems like you're on your way already, Jennifer Say. It was great to run into you recently and also just great to have you on the show. I appreciate your time, appreciate what you're doing.

Thank you so much, Lisa, thanks for having me those.

Thank you so much, Lisa, thanks for having me those.

Jennifer Say, founder and president of xx x Y. We appreciate it for coming on the show. Appreciate you guys at home for listening. Every Tuesday and Thursday, but you can listen throughout the week until next time.

Jennifer Say, founder and president of xx x Y. We appreciate it for coming on the show. Appreciate you guys at home for listening. Every Tuesday and Thursday, but you can listen throughout the week until next time.