This was a wee the people election, It get off our lawn election. We took our power back as the American people after experiencing the heavy hand of government since COVID, even before that, remember when Obama targeted the Tea Party with the IRS. Americans are sick and tired of this. We want our power back, we want our country back, we want patriotism back, we want common sense back. We want an economy that doesn't punish hard working taxpayers.

This was a wee the people election, It get off our lawn election. We took our power back as the American people after experiencing the heavy hand of government since COVID, even before that, remember when Obama targeted the Tea Party with the IRS. Americans are sick and tired of this. We want our power back, we want our country back, we want patriotism back, we want common sense back. We want an economy that doesn't punish hard working taxpayers.

So that's what this election was about.

So that's what this election was about.

But now that we have the majority, now that we have the White House, now that we have the House, now that we have the Senate, what do we do with it? What does the path forward look like? We'll talk to someone who wrote the book about it. The book is called Don's Early Late, Taking Back Washington to Save America. So now that we've taken back Washington, how do we save America. Kevin Roberts is the author. He is the president of the Heritage Foundation. He also has a PhD in American history.

But now that we have the majority, now that we have the White House, now that we have the House, now that we have the Senate, what do we do with it? What does the path forward look like? We'll talk to someone who wrote the book about it. The book is called Don's Early Late, Taking Back Washington to Save America. So now that we've taken back Washington, how do we save America. Kevin Roberts is the author. He is the president of the Heritage Foundation. He also has a PhD in American history.

So this is his.

So this is his.

Passion and this is what he has spent his life's work, his career on talking about American history. So we'll get into this conversation with him, you know, what did the next.

Passion and this is what he has spent his life's work, his career on talking about American history. So we'll get into this conversation with him, you know, what did the next.

Four years look like?

Four years look like?

How do we build a long lasting Republican majority, How do we rebuild these institutions that have been failing us for so long? So all of that more with my friend Kevin Roberts. Stay tuned, Kevin Roberts. It's great to have you on this show. So the last time we were on it was a little depressing. We were in the midst of feeling like, you know, maybe this is the end of the Republic and you know, wondering or for institutions would be able to hold. And thank god, things have changed in the past couple of weeks and because of Donald Trump's victory and Republicans retaking Congress, and it really does feel like a new day in America. I don't know about you, Kevin, but I feel like this weight's just been lifted off her shoulders, you know, feeling a pride in the country again and just feeling of renewed hope. Is that how you've been feeling or you know, what's the past couple of weeks been like for you?

How do we build a long lasting Republican majority, How do we rebuild these institutions that have been failing us for so long? So all of that more with my friend Kevin Roberts. Stay tuned, Kevin Roberts. It's great to have you on this show. So the last time we were on it was a little depressing. We were in the midst of feeling like, you know, maybe this is the end of the Republic and you know, wondering or for institutions would be able to hold. And thank god, things have changed in the past couple of weeks and because of Donald Trump's victory and Republicans retaking Congress, and it really does feel like a new day in America. I don't know about you, Kevin, but I feel like this weight's just been lifted off her shoulders, you know, feeling a pride in the country again and just feeling of renewed hope. Is that how you've been feeling or you know, what's the past couple of weeks been like for you?

Yeah? I couldn't agree more.

Yeah? I couldn't agree more.

You know, as you do, Lisa, I travel the country for work and happily, because it's always nice to get out of the neighborhood of Washington elites, where heritage operates behind enemy lines, and be with ordinary Americans.

You know, as you do, Lisa, I travel the country for work and happily, because it's always nice to get out of the neighborhood of Washington elites, where heritage operates behind enemy lines, and be with ordinary Americans.

And you know, whether on the Gulf Coast or Florida.

And you know, whether on the Gulf Coast or Florida.

Or the West Coast, or even in New York City recently, people use that same metaphor, which is that they feel like a weight's been lifted from their shoulders are in some cases, if you think about small and medium sized business owners off of their chest, that they can actually breathe again. And I think it speaks to this point that you open with, which is that the last time we visited, we were concerned about the deterioration of our institutions, which is a way of saying, sort of on a day to day basis that Americans are feeling like the American dream is slipping away. And once again, a majority of Americans since that and decided.

Or the West Coast, or even in New York City recently, people use that same metaphor, which is that they feel like a weight's been lifted from their shoulders are in some cases, if you think about small and medium sized business owners off of their chest, that they can actually breathe again. And I think it speaks to this point that you open with, which is that the last time we visited, we were concerned about the deterioration of our institutions, which is a way of saying, sort of on a day to day basis that Americans are feeling like the American dream is slipping away. And once again, a majority of Americans since that and decided.

That they want to do elect demand who's.

That they want to do elect demand who's.

Proven that he's able to confront that. The real test is going to be the real hard work is going to be what comes up in the next months, which is actually implementing those policies that rehabilitate the American Dream.

Proven that he's able to confront that. The real test is going to be the real hard work is going to be what comes up in the next months, which is actually implementing those policies that rehabilitate the American Dream.

Yeah, the irony is, you know, they called him Hitler, and yet he's uniting the nations.

Yeah, the irony is, you know, they called him Hitler, and yet he's uniting the nations.

It's amazing, isn't it. But they still won't.

It's amazing, isn't it. But they still won't.

Give him his victory, Like, you know, I'm reading all these headlines like, oh, the Trump's mandate is a myth, Like Donald Trump's mandate isn't as strong as it s Like they just they won't ever even in victory, Like they just can't give him the credit that he's so rightfully.

Give him his victory, Like, you know, I'm reading all these headlines like, oh, the Trump's mandate is a myth, Like Donald Trump's mandate isn't as strong as it s Like they just they won't ever even in victory, Like they just can't give him the credit that he's so rightfully.

Fought for and earned.

Fought for and earned.

They cannot bring themselves to do it.

They cannot bring themselves to do it.

I will say that I've taken a bit of a sadistic pleasure in watching radical leftists contort themselves over Trump winning the popular vote. And then this related point you make, which is just giving him credit for not only meeting the political moment, but also doing so in a way that's very substantive in terms of the policy diagnosis that he articulated and as well as the solutions. And you and I were just touching base informally throughout the campaign, and there was a particular point, not to speak for you, although I remember you and I being on the same page where I thought the Trump Vance campaign hadn't yet found its footing as it relates to the policy diagnosis and solutions, and that's very normal and natural, by the way. But once they did so coming out of the DNC convention in response to what was a mildly successful convention for the vice president, and they found that footing, then you saw those polls closed and they really flipped when jd Vance debated Tim Waltz. And the reason jd Vance I think did so well is because of this emphasis on policy substance, on articulating where we need to go from here. And I am fully convinced that, in fact, they will do so. And that's why it's so difficult for all these talking heads on the left to even bring themselves to admit that these two guys actually have already been successful.

I will say that I've taken a bit of a sadistic pleasure in watching radical leftists contort themselves over Trump winning the popular vote. And then this related point you make, which is just giving him credit for not only meeting the political moment, but also doing so in a way that's very substantive in terms of the policy diagnosis that he articulated and as well as the solutions. And you and I were just touching base informally throughout the campaign, and there was a particular point, not to speak for you, although I remember you and I being on the same page where I thought the Trump Vance campaign hadn't yet found its footing as it relates to the policy diagnosis and solutions, and that's very normal and natural, by the way. But once they did so coming out of the DNC convention in response to what was a mildly successful convention for the vice president, and they found that footing, then you saw those polls closed and they really flipped when jd Vance debated Tim Waltz. And the reason jd Vance I think did so well is because of this emphasis on policy substance, on articulating where we need to go from here. And I am fully convinced that, in fact, they will do so. And that's why it's so difficult for all these talking heads on the left to even bring themselves to admit that these two guys actually have already been successful.

Well, I think one thing.

Well, I think one thing.

That Trump taught us to which I feel like Republicans have been reluctant to do so in the past, is like to go into the blue territories to fight for these votes, to let these voters know that, like, no, we.

That Trump taught us to which I feel like Republicans have been reluctant to do so in the past, is like to go into the blue territories to fight for these votes, to let these voters know that, like, no, we.

Want you on our team.

Want you on our team.

You know, like you really expanded the tent in a way that you know, I don't know if Republicans have been able to do so in the past or at least not for a very long time. I mean, you look at even some of these blue states like New York swinging and his direction by I think something like eleven point five percent, New Jersey by ten percent, California by eight percent, winning you know, some of these majority Hispanic counties winning Dearborn, Michigan, the biggest majority Arab city in the country, you know, winning Native Americans, you know, Asian swinging in his direction, Black swinging his direct you know.

You know, like you really expanded the tent in a way that you know, I don't know if Republicans have been able to do so in the past or at least not for a very long time. I mean, you look at even some of these blue states like New York swinging and his direction by I think something like eleven point five percent, New Jersey by ten percent, California by eight percent, winning you know, some of these majority Hispanic counties winning Dearborn, Michigan, the biggest majority Arab city in the country, you know, winning Native Americans, you know, Asian swinging in his direction, Black swinging his direct you know.

Like just he really went in and he fought in.

Like just he really went in and he fought in.

These areas, and so I think you're like moving forward, you know. I mean, look, Trump's such a unique entity, right, Like he's a probably a what you know, we'll never see anyone like him again. But he kind of taught us that, like, no, we can fight for these votes, and we should fight for these votes, and we should make our case in these areas.

These areas, and so I think you're like moving forward, you know. I mean, look, Trump's such a unique entity, right, Like he's a probably a what you know, we'll never see anyone like him again. But he kind of taught us that, like, no, we can fight for these votes, and we should fight for these votes, and we should make our case in these areas.

And the reason it works is that Trump and Vance are so authentic. I mean, think about if ten years ago, I told you, Lisa, there's going to be this real estate billionaire from New York who is going to be the first Republican to win Star County, Texas, which has the highest percentage of hispanics of any county in this country hasn't voted Republicans since the very tail end of reconstruction. You would say, Kevin, you've lost your ever loving mind, and you would have been right.

And the reason it works is that Trump and Vance are so authentic. I mean, think about if ten years ago, I told you, Lisa, there's going to be this real estate billionaire from New York who is going to be the first Republican to win Star County, Texas, which has the highest percentage of hispanics of any county in this country hasn't voted Republicans since the very tail end of reconstruction. You would say, Kevin, you've lost your ever loving mind, and you would have been right.

Well.

Well.

Trump was able to do that, not just because of great campaign and policy diagnosis, but because of his authenticity. In other words, a majority of Americans and all the places you mentioned, these blue states, are just tired of being pandered to. They're tired of the identity politics of the left, in addition to being tired of the terrible policy of the policies of the Biden Harris regime.

Trump was able to do that, not just because of great campaign and policy diagnosis, but because of his authenticity. In other words, a majority of Americans and all the places you mentioned, these blue states, are just tired of being pandered to. They're tired of the identity politics of the left, in addition to being tired of the terrible policy of the policies of the Biden Harris regime.

And great lesson for those of us who.

And great lesson for those of us who.

Do politics or political messaging for a living, and that is all of that's great, but at some point you really do have to sort of meet people where they are and be yourself and not pander to them. And a majority of Americans respect the heck out of that. And the real proof in the pudding will be is if Trump is able to pass that baton of appealing to those places and Americans in those places, whether he's passing that to the Vice President jd. Vance or other members of his administration, that's also a decidedly young administration thus far, and of course that's very exciting about the future.

Do politics or political messaging for a living, and that is all of that's great, but at some point you really do have to sort of meet people where they are and be yourself and not pander to them. And a majority of Americans respect the heck out of that. And the real proof in the pudding will be is if Trump is able to pass that baton of appealing to those places and Americans in those places, whether he's passing that to the Vice President jd. Vance or other members of his administration, that's also a decidedly young administration thus far, and of course that's very exciting about the future.

Yeah, Like I've been thinking, I think this is like a wee the people election of Americans taking their power back, you know, get offer along election of you know, wanting the government offer back and wanting to like love and believe in our country again, right because we've been told for so long that America's divided its race as it's terrible, and I think, like, you know what, No, this is the greatest country in the world, and we're reclaiming it. You know, we want to be great again, make America great. It's so simple, I guess, you know, one thing as we kind of get into what the next four years will look like, and also your book as well. You know, my only concern is that I hope the Republican Party doesn't mistake what happened is a mandate for the Republican Party. I mean, this is a mandate for Donald Trump and his agenda. And he brought the House in the Senate with him. And you know, I remember back in two thousand and nine when Time magazine had a picture on it and depicted the Republic. They said that, you know, the Republican the RNC that the GUP was an endangered species. And then in twenty ten, I was at the NRCC the following midterm election and Republicans netted sixty three seats.

Yeah, Like I've been thinking, I think this is like a wee the people election of Americans taking their power back, you know, get offer along election of you know, wanting the government offer back and wanting to like love and believe in our country again, right because we've been told for so long that America's divided its race as it's terrible, and I think, like, you know what, No, this is the greatest country in the world, and we're reclaiming it. You know, we want to be great again, make America great. It's so simple, I guess, you know, one thing as we kind of get into what the next four years will look like, and also your book as well. You know, my only concern is that I hope the Republican Party doesn't mistake what happened is a mandate for the Republican Party. I mean, this is a mandate for Donald Trump and his agenda. And he brought the House in the Senate with him. And you know, I remember back in two thousand and nine when Time magazine had a picture on it and depicted the Republic. They said that, you know, the Republican the RNC that the GUP was an endangered species. And then in twenty ten, I was at the NRCC the following midterm election and Republicans netted sixty three seats.

So we went from.

So we went from.

Being told that we were an endangered species species to then going on and you know, winning the midterm elections in a landslide. And so you know, one, we shouldn't count the Democrat Party out, and then secondly, I think Republicans will be punished in the midterms if they don't deliver on the agenda that Donald Trump sold America and this election cycle and promised Americans this election cycle.

Being told that we were an endangered species species to then going on and you know, winning the midterm elections in a landslide. And so you know, one, we shouldn't count the Democrat Party out, and then secondly, I think Republicans will be punished in the midterms if they don't deliver on the agenda that Donald Trump sold America and this election cycle and promised Americans this election cycle.

Look, I think you hit the bullseye.

Look, I think you hit the bullseye.

It's really important, bottom line up front, that especially the establishment part of the GOP not conclude that this election was somehow a mandate for them and what are some now.

It's really important, bottom line up front, that especially the establishment part of the GOP not conclude that this election was somehow a mandate for them and what are some now.

Pretty outdated policies.

Pretty outdated policies.

And so it's really important moving forward that we understand that Trump's victory was a rebuke not just of the Biden Harris administration, but also a rebuke of establishment Washington, establishment Republicans in Washington. And you're already seeing some of those battle lines within the broader Republican Party being established on some of President Trump's nominations. And the advice that I would give to people who are paying attention is that this is just two things. Number One, these battle lines are just the beginning of what will be, as one of my colleagues calls them, the death throes of the Washington Republican establishment. But secondly, it's also imperative that if we learn a lesson from this election, say just you know, regular movement conservatives, it's actually the power through those battle lines that the establishment happens to be drawing. Why is that important not just for political success hopefully mitigating at the very least what's historically likely to be midterm losses in twenty twenty six, but even more importantly to your key point, actually delivering on the mandate that was given.

And so it's really important moving forward that we understand that Trump's victory was a rebuke not just of the Biden Harris administration, but also a rebuke of establishment Washington, establishment Republicans in Washington. And you're already seeing some of those battle lines within the broader Republican Party being established on some of President Trump's nominations. And the advice that I would give to people who are paying attention is that this is just two things. Number One, these battle lines are just the beginning of what will be, as one of my colleagues calls them, the death throes of the Washington Republican establishment. But secondly, it's also imperative that if we learn a lesson from this election, say just you know, regular movement conservatives, it's actually the power through those battle lines that the establishment happens to be drawing. Why is that important not just for political success hopefully mitigating at the very least what's historically likely to be midterm losses in twenty twenty six, but even more importantly to your key point, actually delivering on the mandate that was given.

By the American people.

By the American people.

And that mandate was given to two men, Donald Trump and JD. Vance to go fix this mess. And the majority of Americans don't care if the solutions are liberal, conservative, Republican Democrat. They simply want them fixed. I think that's got they have to have a zealous focus on them.

And that mandate was given to two men, Donald Trump and JD. Vance to go fix this mess. And the majority of Americans don't care if the solutions are liberal, conservative, Republican Democrat. They simply want them fixed. I think that's got they have to have a zealous focus on them.

A se see Donald Trump's and JD. Vance's cabinet take shape. What do you think this administration is going to look like.

A se see Donald Trump's and JD. Vance's cabinet take shape. What do you think this administration is going to look like.

I think it's going to be a great reflection politically, speaking of the center right of the political spectrum. You think about RFK, you know some things I disagree with. I agree with him mightily on what he's being hired to do, and he's right there in the center all the way to the right. I think the vice president elective course is there, although as the leading figure of the so called new right, you know, there are some what establishment Washington would call some heterodoxy. I think it is very refreshing, but there are already and Trump hasn't even filled all of the slots great representatives of all of the important parts of the center right in this country. And so politically, I think it's very smart. And then secondly, it's also younger. I mean, for those of us who are very proud generation exers, you know, the only generation to deliver a majority to the president. I'm very happy to see that thus far the oldest appointees are fifty three Marco Rubio, and this is good. But then the third thing is it is an energetic administration. It reminds me very much, and I'll just geek out for thirty seconds here, Lisa Please, an early American historian. It reminds me of what Alexander Hamilton had in mind when he was theorizing about what the executive the president but also the executive branch should look like. And Trump, I think personifies Hamilton's vision of the vigorous executive. But it's also important that the executive branch be vigorous at the cabinet level so that it can take on the part of the executive branch, the administrative state that really has to.

I think it's going to be a great reflection politically, speaking of the center right of the political spectrum. You think about RFK, you know some things I disagree with. I agree with him mightily on what he's being hired to do, and he's right there in the center all the way to the right. I think the vice president elective course is there, although as the leading figure of the so called new right, you know, there are some what establishment Washington would call some heterodoxy. I think it is very refreshing, but there are already and Trump hasn't even filled all of the slots great representatives of all of the important parts of the center right in this country. And so politically, I think it's very smart. And then secondly, it's also younger. I mean, for those of us who are very proud generation exers, you know, the only generation to deliver a majority to the president. I'm very happy to see that thus far the oldest appointees are fifty three Marco Rubio, and this is good. But then the third thing is it is an energetic administration. It reminds me very much, and I'll just geek out for thirty seconds here, Lisa Please, an early American historian. It reminds me of what Alexander Hamilton had in mind when he was theorizing about what the executive the president but also the executive branch should look like. And Trump, I think personifies Hamilton's vision of the vigorous executive. But it's also important that the executive branch be vigorous at the cabinet level so that it can take on the part of the executive branch, the administrative state that really has to.

Be rained in. And I think all of these men and women, wherever.

Be rained in. And I think all of these men and women, wherever.

They are on that political spectrum, are going to do that because that's the charge they're being given by the president himself.

They are on that political spectrum, are going to do that because that's the charge they're being given by the president himself.

You've got a quick commercial break more with Kevin Roberts.

You've got a quick commercial break more with Kevin Roberts.

On the other side, we.

On the other side, we.

Have a lot of people who are going to be serving in government who distrust government, right right, because I don't want people there who like love government and think government's of the solution, right Like I love like the fact that he's putting people like Elon and that vague can charge of trying to go in and dismantle into you know, you know, And I love the fact that he's like RFK Junior is very distrusting of public health and like I love that, Like I want people or people who have been unfairly targeted by government, like I want people in there who hate government to be perfectly honest.

Have a lot of people who are going to be serving in government who distrust government, right right, because I don't want people there who like love government and think government's of the solution, right Like I love like the fact that he's putting people like Elon and that vague can charge of trying to go in and dismantle into you know, you know, And I love the fact that he's like RFK Junior is very distrusting of public health and like I love that, Like I want people or people who have been unfairly targeted by government, like I want people in there who hate government to be perfectly honest.

It's true, this, this is what we need.

It's true, this, this is what we need.

And look that actually is one of the binding forces, if you will, ideologically of the administration figures thus far, which is that, Ay, most importantly, they love this country and they do not accept the defeatism that it's best days are behind it. But b they're not pollyannish about that. And that's what I hear a lot, you know, from establishment Republicans in Washington, which is that Kevin, you know, why do you Inheritage talk about America being so weak? Well, we're a policy organization. We call reality the way we see it, and that's true. But then c they're actually positing solutions to those problems, and their solutions, to your point, Lisa, that are extremely distressful of government, and it's really important that they remain focused on that. If they do that, and also if they remain very good messengers, and that's another thing they all share, they continue to close the sale as it were with the American people that I actually think you're going to sustain, if not expand, the political will they have to get a lot of these programs, let's say diminished.

And look that actually is one of the binding forces, if you will, ideologically of the administration figures thus far, which is that, Ay, most importantly, they love this country and they do not accept the defeatism that it's best days are behind it. But b they're not pollyannish about that. And that's what I hear a lot, you know, from establishment Republicans in Washington, which is that Kevin, you know, why do you Inheritage talk about America being so weak? Well, we're a policy organization. We call reality the way we see it, and that's true. But then c they're actually positing solutions to those problems, and their solutions, to your point, Lisa, that are extremely distressful of government, and it's really important that they remain focused on that. If they do that, and also if they remain very good messengers, and that's another thing they all share, they continue to close the sale as it were with the American people that I actually think you're going to sustain, if not expand, the political will they have to get a lot of these programs, let's say diminished.

Well, because I mean, government's not supposed to have this big of a choke hold over our lives, like this is not how it was supposed to be before we get into the book and some of the solutions that we could hopefully see over the next four years. Were you surprised that Project twenty twenty five became like so much campaign fodder for Kamala Harris and the left?

Well, because I mean, government's not supposed to have this big of a choke hold over our lives, like this is not how it was supposed to be before we get into the book and some of the solutions that we could hopefully see over the next four years. Were you surprised that Project twenty twenty five became like so much campaign fodder for Kamala Harris and the left?

I was.

I was.

I mean, we were expecting that they would attack it, because even though Heritage has led this kind of effort every four years since nineteen eighty, we've never done it on the scale. As you know, we had one hundred and ten organizations join us our invitation, and the reason we did that is because we wanted to meet this moment as you and I were just talking about, regarding the need to devolve power from government in Washington.

I mean, we were expecting that they would attack it, because even though Heritage has led this kind of effort every four years since nineteen eighty, we've never done it on the scale. As you know, we had one hundred and ten organizations join us our invitation, and the reason we did that is because we wanted to meet this moment as you and I were just talking about, regarding the need to devolve power from government in Washington.

Back to the people.

Back to the people.

But I was surprised, we were surprised that it became such a target for them. I saw an estimate recently that they spent somewhere between fifty and seventy five million dollars attacking Project twenty twenty five, and they mischaracterized almost everything about it except one, which is that we do, in fact, not only call for the elimination of the Education Department, but.

But I was surprised, we were surprised that it became such a target for them. I saw an estimate recently that they spent somewhere between fifty and seventy five million dollars attacking Project twenty twenty five, and they mischaracterized almost everything about it except one, which is that we do, in fact, not only call for the elimination of the Education Department, but.

Have the plan for it.

Have the plan for it.

Ultimately, I guess we should be gratified that while the attacks seemed to work for five or six weeks, once we started responding and getting fact checks, and once I think the presidential campaign was able to explain, look, we're in a different lane than this project, then they started losing their effectiveness and.

Ultimately, I guess we should be gratified that while the attacks seemed to work for five or six weeks, once we started responding and getting fact checks, and once I think the presidential campaign was able to explain, look, we're in a different lane than this project, then they started losing their effectiveness and.

They ultimately didn't work.

They ultimately didn't work.

And so now what we have is double the number of people who have volunteered to be in the personnel database from ten thousand to twenty thousand. To state the obvious, it's up to the president and vice president elect if they want to hire those people. We operate in that spirit of service. But if anything, Lisa, especially now in hindsight, we realize two things moving forward. First is we're always.

And so now what we have is double the number of people who have volunteered to be in the personnel database from ten thousand to twenty thousand. To state the obvious, it's up to the president and vice president elect if they want to hire those people. We operate in that spirit of service. But if anything, Lisa, especially now in hindsight, we realize two things moving forward. First is we're always.

Going to do this.

Going to do this.

Heritage has always done this, so we're not going to stop. And in fact, we're expanding this effort not just from Washington to many state capitals, but even to some counties and some cities where county executives and mayors have asked for our help. But the second thing is in that six weeks in April and May, when the Left was beginning to use this as a campaign tactic, and we decided we were not going to respond because we're careful stewards of our donors' money. We now know next time around, if they punch us, we punch them twice, and we're prepared to do that in twenty twenty six and twenty twenty eight.

Heritage has always done this, so we're not going to stop. And in fact, we're expanding this effort not just from Washington to many state capitals, but even to some counties and some cities where county executives and mayors have asked for our help. But the second thing is in that six weeks in April and May, when the Left was beginning to use this as a campaign tactic, and we decided we were not going to respond because we're careful stewards of our donors' money. We now know next time around, if they punch us, we punch them twice, and we're prepared to do that in twenty twenty six and twenty twenty eight.

Well also think it's because they didn't have anything to run on. And then I also think people I also think that people at home are like, look, I can't put food on my table and you're talking about this like Project twenty.

Well also think it's because they didn't have anything to run on. And then I also think people I also think that people at home are like, look, I can't put food on my table and you're talking about this like Project twenty.

Twenty five, you know, like it's like to me, it just kind of like.

Twenty five, you know, like it's like to me, it just kind of like.

Seemed like added to Like people are like, you know, I don't know what this is, Like, I don't care.

Seemed like added to Like people are like, you know, I don't know what this is, Like, I don't care.

I just want to know how, you know, how are we going to pay the bills? What are you going to do about the border?

I just want to know how, you know, how are we going to pay the bills? What are you going to do about the border?

You know, like what are you going to actually do about like what you know, the issues that are impacting my day to day? All right, So your new book, Dawn's really late taking back Washington to save America. So we have taken back Washington, at least in terms of the balance of power. So how do we save America now that we've got now that we've taken it back.

You know, like what are you going to actually do about like what you know, the issues that are impacting my day to day? All right, So your new book, Dawn's really late taking back Washington to save America. So we have taken back Washington, at least in terms of the balance of power. So how do we save America now that we've got now that we've taken it back.

Now that we've taken it back, we have to have men and women pointed not just to cabinet level positions, but two, three, four, five levels beneath them who have this spirit of taking back the country, have the expertise to do so, and have a hunger for diminishing the size of the federal government. And the good news is, while we're in the early phase of that step, Lisa, the early indications are very good. And then the third step is we have to have legislation that accompanies this. Much of this happen through executive order. But I think you and I agree that we do, eventually in this Republic want to get out of this pattern we've been in for decades where there is sort of a yo yo between Democrat and Republican administrations using executive orders. The only way out of that is for Congress to stop abrogating its responsibility, its own authority, and actually re establish itself as a partner with the executive branch on this dismantling of the administrative state. So in addition to helping with the transition for the next administration, our scholars at Heritage are very focused on that legislation. But what I talk about in the book, sort of the punchline here, is that Washington can only become less important if we spend less time worrying about Washington and more time focused on the work we're doing, not just at our state.

Now that we've taken it back, we have to have men and women pointed not just to cabinet level positions, but two, three, four, five levels beneath them who have this spirit of taking back the country, have the expertise to do so, and have a hunger for diminishing the size of the federal government. And the good news is, while we're in the early phase of that step, Lisa, the early indications are very good. And then the third step is we have to have legislation that accompanies this. Much of this happen through executive order. But I think you and I agree that we do, eventually in this Republic want to get out of this pattern we've been in for decades where there is sort of a yo yo between Democrat and Republican administrations using executive orders. The only way out of that is for Congress to stop abrogating its responsibility, its own authority, and actually re establish itself as a partner with the executive branch on this dismantling of the administrative state. So in addition to helping with the transition for the next administration, our scholars at Heritage are very focused on that legislation. But what I talk about in the book, sort of the punchline here, is that Washington can only become less important if we spend less time worrying about Washington and more time focused on the work we're doing, not just at our state.

Capitals, but especially in our local communities.

Capitals, but especially in our local communities.

I don't want to sound too esoteric here, but I actually think that we can take this country back, not just with great power in Washington, but by regenerating our institutions at home, our k through twelve schools, our school boards, our county commissions, our churches. In other words, every American can play a role. And what I think is going to be a golden era of policy.

I don't want to sound too esoteric here, but I actually think that we can take this country back, not just with great power in Washington, but by regenerating our institutions at home, our k through twelve schools, our school boards, our county commissions, our churches. In other words, every American can play a role. And what I think is going to be a golden era of policy.

For well, I think it's like you know, you're you're totally totally agree with you like building from you know, the ground up, like locally and our community is on a statewide level, and then also in d C, really trying to get rid of this permanent bureaucracy, the deep state trying to like dismantle and disrupt that power as much as you can and the longest lasting way you can, while simultaneously building up locally and at the state level as well. You know, DC is hard to change, right, Like you know, you've got the bureaucracy there. It's hard to fire people sometimes, you know, what do you how do you think they could go about.

For well, I think it's like you know, you're you're totally totally agree with you like building from you know, the ground up, like locally and our community is on a statewide level, and then also in d C, really trying to get rid of this permanent bureaucracy, the deep state trying to like dismantle and disrupt that power as much as you can and the longest lasting way you can, while simultaneously building up locally and at the state level as well. You know, DC is hard to change, right, Like you know, you've got the bureaucracy there. It's hard to fire people sometimes, you know, what do you how do you think they could go about.

Sort of loosening the grip of d C, giving.

Sort of loosening the grip of d C, giving.

The space for people to build up, you know, locally at the community level and then also within their states as well well.

The space for people to build up, you know, locally at the community level and then also within their states as well well.

I think there are two or three channels that in the next year year and a half will be very telling. The first is just to talk about a DC specific solution. These cabinet secretaries need to let vacant positions remain vacant, and depending upon how aggressive the administration wants to be, they can use civil service reform, which is very appropriate and even good to make sure that we're diminishing the size of the government. But the second channel is important, and in fact, that first channel of executive action can't be sustained in terms of the popular will unless this second channel happens and it speaks directly to the underlying point of your question, which is what can each of us do as individuals.

I think there are two or three channels that in the next year year and a half will be very telling. The first is just to talk about a DC specific solution. These cabinet secretaries need to let vacant positions remain vacant, and depending upon how aggressive the administration wants to be, they can use civil service reform, which is very appropriate and even good to make sure that we're diminishing the size of the government. But the second channel is important, and in fact, that first channel of executive action can't be sustained in terms of the popular will unless this second channel happens and it speaks directly to the underlying point of your question, which is what can each of us do as individuals.

We really do.

We really do.

Need to make if we're going to make America great again, we need to make our towns and counties and cities and states great again. And yeah, I mean part of what I'm saying here, and I talk about it in the book as an academic a little bit is revitalizing federalism. We understand that philosophically in terms of political science. But what I try to do in the book is explain what that actually means day to day for each of us. It means just to use perhaps a silly example, but it's one that has apropos for me as a longtime member of the Rotary club, go to your Rotary club meetings. Maybe you stop going because there was some person who gave kind of a dumb talk you disagreed with, or there's someone there you disagree with.

Need to make if we're going to make America great again, we need to make our towns and counties and cities and states great again. And yeah, I mean part of what I'm saying here, and I talk about it in the book as an academic a little bit is revitalizing federalism. We understand that philosophically in terms of political science. But what I try to do in the book is explain what that actually means day to day for each of us. It means just to use perhaps a silly example, but it's one that has apropos for me as a longtime member of the Rotary club, go to your Rotary club meetings. Maybe you stop going because there was some person who gave kind of a dumb talk you disagreed with, or there's someone there you disagree with.

Go there. Re establish your bowling league.

Go there. Re establish your bowling league.

Even if you're a grandparent your kids obviously have their own kids, Go coach little league baseball. And I think the following is also very important. Whatever your faith is, if you've gotten just a little lazy, let's say, with being part of a church, community, go back start this weekend. It's those kinds of things that, when we add them all up together, actually are what make this country great. And it's really important that we understand not only will the solutions in Washington be insufficient to make America great again. Political solutions written large are insufficient. We have to do some things in our own lives socially and culturally and economically to participate. And then the third thing is which is my hiby horse since the since election day, and I think you will appreciate this other than say Fox and maybe a couple of other news outlets, stop watching and subscribing to legacy media. They're liars, they hate this country. Stop giving them fifteen to twenty dollars a month to tell us that X is Y and A is B. Now is the time to press the advantage and really lean into much better accurate sources of our information.

Even if you're a grandparent your kids obviously have their own kids, Go coach little league baseball. And I think the following is also very important. Whatever your faith is, if you've gotten just a little lazy, let's say, with being part of a church, community, go back start this weekend. It's those kinds of things that, when we add them all up together, actually are what make this country great. And it's really important that we understand not only will the solutions in Washington be insufficient to make America great again. Political solutions written large are insufficient. We have to do some things in our own lives socially and culturally and economically to participate. And then the third thing is which is my hiby horse since the since election day, and I think you will appreciate this other than say Fox and maybe a couple of other news outlets, stop watching and subscribing to legacy media. They're liars, they hate this country. Stop giving them fifteen to twenty dollars a month to tell us that X is Y and A is B. Now is the time to press the advantage and really lean into much better accurate sources of our information.

Well, it is interesting because Trump was really able to bypass the media by using podcasts and like doing the interview with like with Rogan, and then doing the interview one acts with Elon, and so like, I think you the media now sort of realizing like oh, like there was like this anonymous TV exec in I think Newark magazine that said, of Trump were to win, it would mean the death of mainstream media. And so I think you've got a lot of media now scrambling being like, Okay, we can't lie to people like you know, like like they're not buying what we're selling, right, I think American like it's your point, you know. I think people are kind of turning out out all this stuff because they're realizing that, you know, we've been lied to and divided for so long.

Well, it is interesting because Trump was really able to bypass the media by using podcasts and like doing the interview with like with Rogan, and then doing the interview one acts with Elon, and so like, I think you the media now sort of realizing like oh, like there was like this anonymous TV exec in I think Newark magazine that said, of Trump were to win, it would mean the death of mainstream media. And so I think you've got a lot of media now scrambling being like, Okay, we can't lie to people like you know, like like they're not buying what we're selling, right, I think American like it's your point, you know. I think people are kind of turning out out all this stuff because they're realizing that, you know, we've been lied to and divided for so long.

You know.

You know.

I think one thing that's been cool recently too is just saying, like the culture shift, right because you know, as we're talking about sort of you know in your book as well, about just sort of like taking back institutions and and and you know, building from the ground up locally, and we've realized how important school boards are as well, but like also just the culture, and you know, we're sort of seeing those shifts you know, take place as well, which I think is.

I think one thing that's been cool recently too is just saying, like the culture shift, right because you know, as we're talking about sort of you know in your book as well, about just sort of like taking back institutions and and and you know, building from the ground up locally, and we've realized how important school boards are as well, but like also just the culture, and you know, we're sort of seeing those shifts you know, take place as well, which I think is.

You know, is a very positive movement.

You know, is a very positive movement.

Yeah, what you see is a re emergence of common sense. Think about as part of the broader culture war, the fight against transgender ideology, those of us who have been fighting that from its early days in policy and politics, spent the better part of the last decade sort of on an island wondering when.

Yeah, what you see is a re emergence of common sense. Think about as part of the broader culture war, the fight against transgender ideology, those of us who have been fighting that from its early days in policy and politics, spent the better part of the last decade sort of on an island wondering when.

The politicians would wake up.

The politicians would wake up.

And none other than Donald Trump brought this to life because of the work of many great people, Rightley Gains cultural figures, you yourself, other media figures on the political right who have been courageous enough at a time when the legacy media and the Republican establishment didn't want you to talk about this, but talking about it, and then ultimately, if I can use this metaphor of fire, which I try to use in the book as a regenerative tool, you kept the fire alive, the fire of truth, to the point that that was a deciding factor, the fact that Donald Trump and JD fans said repeatedly that there boys or boys and girls or girls, that in fact, the presidential election was one because of stating biological reality. That's where we are in this country, which is to say, a very vocal minority have been abusing kids in particular, but the large silent majority of Americans said enough is enough and we want this fix. And I think that is in microcosm, that issue, in microcosm is what we're going to see in the near future and in the midterm future for the United States if in fact, our leaders continue to be willing to reject what the legacy media say.

And none other than Donald Trump brought this to life because of the work of many great people, Rightley Gains cultural figures, you yourself, other media figures on the political right who have been courageous enough at a time when the legacy media and the Republican establishment didn't want you to talk about this, but talking about it, and then ultimately, if I can use this metaphor of fire, which I try to use in the book as a regenerative tool, you kept the fire alive, the fire of truth, to the point that that was a deciding factor, the fact that Donald Trump and JD fans said repeatedly that there boys or boys and girls or girls, that in fact, the presidential election was one because of stating biological reality. That's where we are in this country, which is to say, a very vocal minority have been abusing kids in particular, but the large silent majority of Americans said enough is enough and we want this fix. And I think that is in microcosm, that issue, in microcosm is what we're going to see in the near future and in the midterm future for the United States if in fact, our leaders continue to be willing to reject what the legacy media say.

Quick break, stay with us. What I've realized is that, especially in the media, is if you stay firm and you don't bend the knee, eventually everyone else will catch up. It's like it's just dicey for like a short period of time, and then but then the irony is that the people who went along with like pronouns and transgender stuff and all this nonsense after the fact will be like, oh yeah, I try to act like they always stood strong, and you're like, I'm pretty sure you were like you know, calling a man a woman, and you know, like going along with it.

Quick break, stay with us. What I've realized is that, especially in the media, is if you stay firm and you don't bend the knee, eventually everyone else will catch up. It's like it's just dicey for like a short period of time, and then but then the irony is that the people who went along with like pronouns and transgender stuff and all this nonsense after the fact will be like, oh yeah, I try to act like they always stood strong, and you're like, I'm pretty sure you were like you know, calling a man a woman, and you know, like going along with it.

Like the same thing with like vaccines.

Like the same thing with like vaccines.

Like after the fact, you know, all these people like went along with it, and then after the fact they're like, oh yeah, what a terrible chapter. And you're like, well, dude, you were like telling everyone to get vaccine.

Like after the fact, you know, all these people like went along with it, and then after the fact they're like, oh yeah, what a terrible chapter. And you're like, well, dude, you were like telling everyone to get vaccine.

You know, like where were you and it was you.

You know, like where were you and it was you.

Know, when things were uh where things were dicey, and you know it was a bad situation. But anyways, I digress. Well, this sounds like, I love this book.

Know, when things were uh where things were dicey, and you know it was a bad situation. But anyways, I digress. Well, this sounds like, I love this book.

What do you hope before we go? What do you hope people take away from it?

What do you hope before we go? What do you hope people take away from it?

I hope they take real, substantive reasons to be hopeful about the American future. By using this title Down's Early Light, obviously referencing our national anthem, I want people to understand there are reasons to be encouraged and inspired, especially given the outcome of the election, but that it actually is incumbent upon us.

I hope they take real, substantive reasons to be hopeful about the American future. By using this title Down's Early Light, obviously referencing our national anthem, I want people to understand there are reasons to be encouraged and inspired, especially given the outcome of the election, but that it actually is incumbent upon us.

This is the main lesson.

This is the main lesson.

It isn't that politics and policy will be the answer. It's that if, in fact, as Francis Scott Key did two hundred ten years ago, believe that through the fog of political war, we can see old glory again.

It isn't that politics and policy will be the answer. It's that if, in fact, as Francis Scott Key did two hundred ten years ago, believe that through the fog of political war, we can see old glory again.

And I do believe we are.

And I do believe we are.

That it's incumbent upon us if in fact we want to take our country back, to do everything well, to be great members of our community, great members of our family. We're going into the long holiday season in the new year. It's a great time to rekindle those relationships. That may sound a little goofy Lisa, coming from the leader of the largest conservative think tank in the world, but I actually believe that's how we make our politics better, not any less conservative.

That it's incumbent upon us if in fact we want to take our country back, to do everything well, to be great members of our community, great members of our family. We're going into the long holiday season in the new year. It's a great time to rekindle those relationships. That may sound a little goofy Lisa, coming from the leader of the largest conservative think tank in the world, but I actually believe that's how we make our politics better, not any less conservative.

You know me and Heritage, we.

You know me and Heritage, we.

Are unabashedly conservative and we will never rollover when it comes to defending our founding principles and conservatism. But also think that our Good Lord has given us this opportunity to go down this path, and we ought to have a spring in our step as we do it because I think this is the beginning of a golden era for this country.

Are unabashedly conservative and we will never rollover when it comes to defending our founding principles and conservatism. But also think that our Good Lord has given us this opportunity to go down this path, and we ought to have a spring in our step as we do it because I think this is the beginning of a golden era for this country.

I do too, and it's a great timing for the book because I think we're in the best position we've been in a very long time to take the country back, and then you obviously outline ways we can do it.

I do too, and it's a great timing for the book because I think we're in the best position we've been in a very long time to take the country back, and then you obviously outline ways we can do it.

And the path forward.

And the path forward.

So Kevin Robert's always great to talk to you. Great to have you on the show, and congratulations on the book and happy Thanksgiving same to you.

So Kevin Robert's always great to talk to you. Great to have you on the show, and congratulations on the book and happy Thanksgiving same to you.

Thank for having you. Yeah, thanks for everything you do, Lisa.

Thank for having you. Yeah, thanks for everything you do, Lisa.

That was Kevin Roberts, president of the Heritage Foundation and author of the new book Down's Early Late, Taking Back Washington to Save America.

That was Kevin Roberts, president of the Heritage Foundation and author of the new book Down's Early Late, Taking Back Washington to Save America.

Appreciate him for making the time.

Appreciate him for making the time.

Appreciate you guys at home for listening every Monday and Thursday, but you can listen throughout the week. I want to thank John, Cassie and my producer for putting the show together until next time.

Appreciate you guys at home for listening every Monday and Thursday, but you can listen throughout the week. I want to thank John, Cassie and my producer for putting the show together until next time.