In today’s episode, Brooke and Ben dive into different ways of thinking — open and closed, fixed and fluid and whatever exists in between. They discuss their different approaches to rule-following, how they deal with opinion chameleons and why finding common ground is one of the most effective ways to have a constructive conversation.

Ben also explains why he loves playing the devil’s advocate (and why Brooke finds it infuriating!) and finishes with a hard-hitting question: rigid or flexible lollies — which is better?

They discuss:
hypersensitivity
Brooke’s EMDR experience
dealing with narrow-minded people
chameleon opinions and why they’re so confusing
rule-followers vs rebels
improving cognitive flexibility
how to engage different opinions without losing your mind
why hope hurts sometimes
the great lolly debate: rigid vs flexible

Thanks for listening!

Links:
Find everything mentioned in today’s show at brookemcalary.substack.com 
Become a paying supporter of ttath and get double the episodes! Weekly shows delivered straight to your inbox for just $8AUD/month or $80AUD/yr.
If video is your jam, subscribe to our YouTube channel @thetortoiseandthehare
Access the full, human-made transcript here

Credits:
the tortoise & the hare is a McAlary Media production.
Produced and hosted by Brooke McAlary and Ben McAlary
Edited by Ben McAlary
Studio equipment supplied by shot.studio
Theme music is Edgar Allan Poe by Modern Aquatic

In today&rsquo;s episode, Brooke and Ben dive into different ways of thinking &mdash; open and closed, fixed and fluid and whatever exists in between. They discuss their different approaches to rule-following, how they deal with opinion chameleons and why finding common ground is one of the most effective ways to have a constructive conversation.
Ben also explains why he loves playing the devil&rsquo;s advocate (and why Brooke finds it infuriating!) and finishes with a hard-hitting question: rigid or flexible lollies &mdash; which is better?
They discuss:
<ul>
<li>hypersensitivity</li>
<li>Brooke&rsquo;s EMDR experience</li>
<li>dealing with narrow-minded people</li>
<li>chameleon opinions and why they&rsquo;re so confusing</li>
<li>rule-followers vs rebels</li>
<li>improving cognitive flexibility</li>
<li>how to engage different opinions without losing your mind</li>
<li>why hope hurts sometimes</li>
<li>the great lolly debate: rigid vs flexible</li>
</ul>
Thanks for listening!
Links:
<ul>
<li>Find everything mentioned in today&rsquo;s show at <a href="https://www.brookemcalary.substack.com">brookemcalary.substack.com</a>&nbsp;</li>
<li>Become a paying supporter of ttath and get double the episodes! Weekly shows delivered straight to your inbox for <a href="https://www.brookemcalary.substack.com/subscribe">just $8AUD/month or $80AUD/yr.</a></li>
<li>If video is your jam, subscribe to our YouTube channel <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@thetortoiseandthehare">@thetortoiseandthehare</a></li>
<li>Access the full, human-made <a href="https://brookemcalary.substack.com/p/rigid-and-flexible-pod?showTranscript=true">transcript here</a></li>
</ul>
Credits:
<ul>
<li>the tortoise &amp; the hare is a McAlary Media production.</li>
<li>Produced and hosted by Brooke McAlary and Ben McAlary</li>
<li>Edited by Ben McAlary</li>
<li>Studio equipment supplied by shot.studio</li>
<li>Theme music is Edgar Allan Poe by&nbsp;<a href="https://open.spotify.com/artist/3NH6G625odjefc6B8x21ol?si=s0SgpRcrRi-epsHTor9PcQ">Modern Aquatic</a></li>
</ul>

Fast and slow. Young and old. Hard and soft. Open and closed. Real and fake. Hide and seek. Pleasure and pain… Life is full of dualities and extremes and pick-a-sides. But most of our days are spent in the messy middle. 

the tortoise and the hare is a weekly show from the crew who brought you The Slow Home Podcast (RIP). Each episode is a human-made, homegrown, perfectly imperfect conversation about the either/or of life and the vast grey area in between.

Because we all contain multitudes. So let’s talk about them.

Fast and slow. Young and old. Hard and soft. Open and closed. Real and fake. Hide and seek. Pleasure and pain&hellip; Life is full of dualities and extremes and pick-a-sides. But most of our days are spent in the messy middle.&nbsp;
the tortoise and the hare is a weekly show from the crew who brought you The Slow Home Podcast (RIP). Each episode is a human-made, homegrown, perfectly imperfect conversation about the either/or of life and the vast grey area in between.
Because we all contain multitudes. So let&rsquo;s talk about them.

We all contain multitudes. So let's talk about them.

the tortoise & the hare

Fixed or fluid? Open or closed? Follow or lead? How we think about thinking matters.

rigid & flexible | the tortoise & the hare 

Whether it’s food, beauty products, or the state of our home, describing something as ‘clean’ also implies there is ‘dirty’, an idea that carries a lot of guilt and shame. In this week’s episode, Brooke and Ben dig into a new duality by looking at food, home, green-cleaning and more.

Ben talks about the brosphere — specifically the rise of ‘clean eating’ and its impact on boys and young men — and Brooke talks about her conflicted feelings on individual responsibility versus industry accountability. Ben also shares his honest take on Brooke’s hardcore green-cleaning and no-shampoo hippie eras, the tidiness of their house as a barometer of mental well-being, and why the internet will never agree on how often to clean the walls.

They also talk about:
dropping their standards
why kids can be a balancing influence on all-or-nothing thinking
using righteous anger to fuel our enoughness
making small changes in the face of systemic problems
quality versus quantity and how a bit of fussiness isn’t a bad thing
the painful gap between the why and how of things
knowing when a fight is worthwhile and when it’s not
the importance of language around food and health and why men and women experience it differently
what it means to be ‘houseproud’
QUIZ: how often do you need to clean a ____?

Thanks for listening!

Links:
Find everything mentioned in today’s show at brookemcalary.substack.com 
Become a paying supporter of ttath and get double the episodes! Weekly shows delivered straight to your inbox for just $8AUD/month or $80AUD/yr.
If video is your jam, subscribe to our YouTube channel @thetortoiseandthehare
Access the full, human-made transcript here

Credits:
the tortoise & the hare is a McAlary Media production.
Produced and hosted by Brooke McAlary and Ben McAlary
Edited by Ben McAlary
Studio equipment supplied by shot.studio
Theme music is Edgar Allan Poe by Modern Aquatic

Whether it&rsquo;s food, beauty products, or the state of our home, describing something as &lsquo;clean&rsquo; also implies there is &lsquo;dirty&rsquo;, an idea that carries a lot of guilt and shame. In this week&rsquo;s episode, Brooke and Ben dig into a new duality by looking at food, home, green-cleaning and more.
Ben talks about the brosphere &mdash; specifically the rise of &lsquo;clean eating&rsquo; and its impact on boys and young men &mdash; and Brooke talks about her conflicted feelings on individual responsibility versus industry accountability. Ben also shares his honest take on Brooke&rsquo;s hardcore green-cleaning and no-shampoo hippie eras, the tidiness of their house as a barometer of mental well-being, and why the internet will never agree on how often to clean the walls.
They also talk about:
<ul>
<li>dropping their standards</li>
<li>why kids can be a balancing influence on all-or-nothing thinking</li>
<li>using righteous anger to fuel our enoughness</li>
<li>making small changes in the face of systemic problems</li>
<li>quality versus quantity and how a bit of fussiness isn&rsquo;t a bad thing</li>
<li>the painful gap between the why and how of things</li>
<li>knowing when a fight is worthwhile and when it&rsquo;s not</li>
<li>the importance of language around food and health and why men and women experience it differently</li>
<li>what it means to be &lsquo;houseproud&rsquo;</li>
<li>QUIZ: how often do you need to clean a ____?</li>
</ul>
Thanks for listening!
Links:
<ul>
<li>Find everything mentioned in today&rsquo;s show at <a href="https://www.brookemcalary.substack.com">brookemcalary.substack.com</a>&nbsp;</li>
<li>Become a paying supporter of ttath and get double the episodes! Weekly shows delivered straight to your inbox for <a href="https://www.brookemcalary.substack.com/subscribe">just $8AUD/month or $80AUD/yr.</a></li>
<li>If video is your jam, subscribe to our YouTube channel <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@thetortoiseandthehare">@thetortoiseandthehare</a></li>
<li>Access the full, human-made <a href="https://brookemcalary.substack.com/p/clean-and-dirty">transcript here</a></li>
</ul>
Credits:
<ul>
<li>the tortoise &amp; the hare is a McAlary Media production.</li>
<li>Produced and hosted by Brooke McAlary and Ben McAlary</li>
<li>Edited by Ben McAlary</li>
<li>Studio equipment supplied by shot.studio</li>
<li>Theme music is Edgar Allan Poe by&nbsp;<a href="https://open.spotify.com/artist/3NH6G625odjefc6B8x21ol?si=s0SgpRcrRi-epsHTor9PcQ">Modern Aquatic</a></li>
</ul>

Whether it’s food, products, or the state of our home, describing something as ‘clean’ also implies there is ‘dirty’

clean & dirty | the tortoise & the hare 

Prompted by a listener question, this week’s episode is about Brooke and Ben’s relationship with alcohol and how it’s changed over the past five years. Brooke shares why she never really wanted to use the word ‘sober’ to describe herself and how healing helped her let go of rigid ideas on drinking vs not drinking.

Ben discusses the role drinking culture has had on his life and why he thinks other countries do it better than Australia. They also talk about wasted days, the toll drinking takes and the flip-side: the high cost of complete restriction. It’s a vulnerable chat but it feels important to share.

They also discuss:
their respective relationships with alcohol — then and now
Brooke’s experience with quitting — why, how and what she told people about it
what was lost and gained
how learning to have fun sober has been a game-changer
the physiological effects of alcohol and why Brooke used it as a social crutch
why moralising could have a negative effect on their family
how to step back from a restrictive mindset and soften the language we use
why we still do things we know to be “bad” for us
the difference between preferences and non-negotiables
what Brooke and Ben would tell themselves 10 years ago

Thanks for listening!

Links:
Find everything mentioned in today’s show at brookemcalary.substack.com 
Become a paying supporter of ttath and get double the episodes! Weekly shows delivered straight to your inbox for just $8AUD/month or $80AUD/yr.
If video is your jam, subscribe to our YouTube channel @thetortoiseandthehare and watch today's episode
Access the full, human-made transcript here

Credits:
the tortoise & the hare is a McAlary Media production.
Produced and hosted by Brooke McAlary and Ben McAlary
Edited by Ben McAlary
Studio equipment supplied by shot.studio
Theme music is Edgar Allan Poe by Modern Aquatic

Prompted by a listener question, this week&rsquo;s episode is about Brooke and Ben&rsquo;s relationship with alcohol and how it&rsquo;s changed over the past five years. Brooke shares why she never really wanted to use the word &lsquo;sober&rsquo; to describe herself and how healing helped her let go of rigid ideas on drinking vs not drinking.
Ben discusses the role drinking culture has had on his life and why he thinks other countries do it better than Australia. They also talk about wasted days, the toll drinking takes and the flip-side: the high cost of complete restriction. It&rsquo;s a vulnerable chat but it feels important to share.
They also discuss:
<ul>
<li>their respective relationships with alcohol &mdash; then and now</li>
<li>Brooke&rsquo;s experience with quitting &mdash; why, how and what she told people about it</li>
<li>what was lost and gained</li>
<li>how learning to have fun sober has been a game-changer</li>
<li>the physiological effects of alcohol and why Brooke used it as a social crutch</li>
<li>why moralising could have a negative effect on their family</li>
<li>how to step back from a restrictive mindset and soften the language we use</li>
<li>why we still do things we know to be &ldquo;bad&rdquo; for us</li>
<li>the difference between preferences and non-negotiables</li>
<li>what Brooke and Ben would tell themselves 10 years ago</li>
</ul>
Thanks for listening!
Links:
<ul>
<li>Find everything mentioned in today&rsquo;s show at <a href="https://www.brookemcalary.substack.com">brookemcalary.substack.com</a>&nbsp;</li>
<li>Become a paying supporter of ttath and get double the episodes! Weekly shows delivered straight to your inbox for <a href="https://www.brookemcalary.substack.com/subscribe">just $8AUD/month or $80AUD/yr.</a></li>
<li>If video is your jam, subscribe to our YouTube channel <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@thetortoiseandthehare">@thetortoiseandthehare</a> and <a href="https://youtu.be/Ra8J29u9p7o">watch today's episode</a></li>
<li>Access the full, human-made <a href="https://brookemcalary.substack.com/p/drunk-and-sober?showTranscript=true">transcript here</a></li>
</ul>
Credits:
<ul>
<li>the tortoise &amp; the hare is a McAlary Media production.</li>
<li>Produced and hosted by Brooke McAlary and Ben McAlary</li>
<li>Edited by Ben McAlary</li>
<li>Studio equipment supplied by shot.studio</li>
<li>Theme music is Edgar Allan Poe by&nbsp;<a href="https://open.spotify.com/artist/3NH6G625odjefc6B8x21ol?si=s0SgpRcrRi-epsHTor9PcQ">Modern Aquatic</a></li>
</ul>

Five years of not drinking taught Brooke a lot about joy and shame. So where is she and Ben on the spectrum of sobriety now?

drunk & sober | the tortoise & the hare 

When it comes to age and youth, body image takes a beating at both ends. Can we find a gentler way through the years?

In today’s show, Brooke and Ben discuss the duality of wrinkles & pimples — i.e. the visible elements of youth and aging — and how they are literally in the middle of it right now, with both wrinkles and pimples (and grey hair and stiff backs in the morning).

They discuss:
changing body image in their mid-40s
why gender-affirming care (including hair removal, plastic surgery, make-up and hormone therapy) should be accessible to everyone
the changing role of body image for boys and men over the past decade
what our faces and bodies are actually for
the billionaires who want to live forever and go to great lengths to avoid aging

Thanks for listening!

Links:
Find everything mentioned in today’s show at brookemcalary.substack.com 
Become a paying supporter of ttath and get double the episodes! Weekly shows delivered straight to your inbox for just $5AUD/month for a limited time
If video is your jam, subscribe to our YouTube channel @thetortoiseandthehare
Access the full, human-made transcript here

Credits:
the tortoise & the hare is a McAlary Media production.
Produced and hosted by Brooke McAlary and Ben McAlary
Edited by Ben McAlary
Studio equipment supplied by shot.studio
Theme music is Edgar Allan Poe by Modern Aquatic

When it comes to age and youth, body image takes a beating at both ends. Can we find a gentler way through the years?
In today&rsquo;s show, Brooke and Ben discuss the duality of wrinkles &amp; pimples &mdash; i.e. the visible elements of youth and aging &mdash; and how they are literally in the middle of it right now, with both wrinkles and pimples (and grey hair and stiff backs in the morning).
They discuss:
<ul>
<li>changing body image in their mid-40s</li>
<li>why gender-affirming care (including hair removal, plastic surgery, make-up and hormone therapy) should be accessible to everyone</li>
<li>the changing role of body image for boys and men over the past decade</li>
<li>what our faces and bodies are actually for</li>
<li>the billionaires who want to live forever and go to great lengths to avoid aging</li>
</ul>
Thanks for listening!
Links:
<ul>
<li>Find everything mentioned in today&rsquo;s show at <a href="https://www.brookemcalary.substack.com">brookemcalary.substack.com</a>&nbsp;</li>
<li>Become a paying supporter of ttath and get double the episodes! Weekly shows delivered straight to your inbox for <a href="https://www.brookemcalary.substack.com/subscribe">just $5AUD/month for a limited time</a></li>
<li>If video is your jam, subscribe to our YouTube channel <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@thetortoiseandthehare">@thetortoiseandthehare</a></li>
<li><a href="https://brookemcalary.substack.com/p/wrinkles-and-pimples?showTranscript=true">Access the full, human-made transcript here</a></li>
</ul>
Credits:
<ul>
<li>the tortoise &amp; the hare is a McAlary Media production.</li>
<li>Produced and hosted by Brooke McAlary and Ben McAlary</li>
<li>Edited by Ben McAlary</li>
<li>Studio equipment supplied by shot.studio</li>
<li>Theme music is Edgar Allan Poe by&nbsp;<a href="https://open.spotify.com/artist/3NH6G625odjefc6B8x21ol?si=s0SgpRcrRi-epsHTor9PcQ">Modern Aquatic</a></li>
</ul>

When it comes to age and youth, body image takes a beating at both ends. Can we find a gentler way through the years?

rigid & flexible | the tortoise & the hare

the tortoise & the hare

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