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All right, we had some ism manufacturing data came out just this morning, a little bit weakerd then expect it. Let's bring in Tim Fury, used the chair for the Institute for Supply Management. The kids know that. As im Tim talk to us about the data we saw today. I'm just looking at the headlines. Came in a little bit below forecast, a little bit below last period as well.

All right, we had some ism manufacturing data came out just this morning, a little bit weakerd then expect it. Let's bring in Tim Fury, used the chair for the Institute for Supply Management. The kids know that. As im Tim talk to us about the data we saw today. I'm just looking at the headlines. Came in a little bit below forecast, a little bit below last period as well.

Yeah, hi jeessipeball.

Yeah, hi jeessipeball.

So the best way to describe this report, although our number is contracting again, is stable, stagnant, stock sluggish and flat. You know the preponderance of the common comments in the over the last couple of months, we're kind of on the plateau. As you know, your listeners. We started to see a grow out back in January. It was a week grow out, not a very strong growout. But in the month of April and then again the month of May, we're basically stuck, and it feels the reason why we're stuck is that there is very little demand. And the reason that there's very little demand is because people are waiting for ray cuts. So when we started the year, the ray cuts were actually a tailwind. Now with the lack of tail of ray cuts, we're actually.

So the best way to describe this report, although our number is contracting again, is stable, stagnant, stock sluggish and flat. You know the preponderance of the common comments in the over the last couple of months, we're kind of on the plateau. As you know, your listeners. We started to see a grow out back in January. It was a week grow out, not a very strong growout. But in the month of April and then again the month of May, we're basically stuck, and it feels the reason why we're stuck is that there is very little demand. And the reason that there's very little demand is because people are waiting for ray cuts. So when we started the year, the ray cuts were actually a tailwind. Now with the lack of tail of ray cuts, we're actually.

Looking at a headwind.

Looking at a headwind.

So the manufacturing sector is pretty much frozen, and they're unwilling to really invest in capex and in working capital, and to some extent, in people until the horizon clears up.

So the manufacturing sector is pretty much frozen, and they're unwilling to really invest in capex and in working capital, and to some extent, in people until the horizon clears up.

So Tim, what does this mean more broadly for the economy?

So Tim, what does this mean more broadly for the economy?

Well, you know, I think we're just we're six to nine months out ahead of the general economy. So you know, we started to grow out in January, as I said, which would indicate that maybe the general economy would start to see a a better uplift in the fall. But with this plateauing, this could be just a manufacturing plateau depending on what the FED does on the right side. But I don't think we're going to see much movement here. I mean, as time goes on and there's a lack of demand, there's going to be a lack of work. One of the really positive things here the report is that we were stable on a revenue basis month to month, which is good. But we've been expanding slightly for the last three or four months and now we're stable, which really means that as your pipeline your backlog declines, you have less to work on. We could see that production number going to contraction, which would be a whole different story. So that's the first story here. I already mentioned a demand. It's the weakest new order number we've had in a year. Last May's worse at forty two, which is a lot worse than forty five, by the way, but so okay, we're not as bad as last May. And then you know, the positive thing here is on the prices number, where although we're still expanding, we're not expanding as much as we were in April. And we just finished our forecast and our respondents have indicated that for the whole year twenty twenty four, we're looking at a one point nine percent price growth on the cost of things that they buy, of which we've already seen one point six percent so far this year. So if you take that, it really says that we're looking at essentially not much more of a price increase as we close on the year, and you know, hopefully that will spur some demand here, but I think you know everybody's waiting for a little bit more solidity and some positive news here so that people will move on. In the meantime, we've gone from a profit focused performance here to a profit focused performance here with a bigger priority on making sure you're liquid in the event something wrong happens. And that's kind of where we're at all right.

Well, you know, I think we're just we're six to nine months out ahead of the general economy. So you know, we started to grow out in January, as I said, which would indicate that maybe the general economy would start to see a a better uplift in the fall. But with this plateauing, this could be just a manufacturing plateau depending on what the FED does on the right side. But I don't think we're going to see much movement here. I mean, as time goes on and there's a lack of demand, there's going to be a lack of work. One of the really positive things here the report is that we were stable on a revenue basis month to month, which is good. But we've been expanding slightly for the last three or four months and now we're stable, which really means that as your pipeline your backlog declines, you have less to work on. We could see that production number going to contraction, which would be a whole different story. So that's the first story here. I already mentioned a demand. It's the weakest new order number we've had in a year. Last May's worse at forty two, which is a lot worse than forty five, by the way, but so okay, we're not as bad as last May. And then you know, the positive thing here is on the prices number, where although we're still expanding, we're not expanding as much as we were in April. And we just finished our forecast and our respondents have indicated that for the whole year twenty twenty four, we're looking at a one point nine percent price growth on the cost of things that they buy, of which we've already seen one point six percent so far this year. So if you take that, it really says that we're looking at essentially not much more of a price increase as we close on the year, and you know, hopefully that will spur some demand here, but I think you know everybody's waiting for a little bit more solidity and some positive news here so that people will move on. In the meantime, we've gone from a profit focused performance here to a profit focused performance here with a bigger priority on making sure you're liquid in the event something wrong happens. And that's kind of where we're at all right.

Tim, thanks so much for joining us as appreciate getting your thoughts here. On ism day, Tim Fury, Chair for the Institute for Supply Management, talking about these ice and manufacturing numbers came in lighter than expecting. Again, the one that jumped out of me, Jess was a new orders came into forty five five point four. Consensus was forty nine point four, so a big miss there. Last period was forty nine point one. So the new orders kind of gives you a little bit of a leaning indicator weaker than expected.

Tim, thanks so much for joining us as appreciate getting your thoughts here. On ism day, Tim Fury, Chair for the Institute for Supply Management, talking about these ice and manufacturing numbers came in lighter than expecting. Again, the one that jumped out of me, Jess was a new orders came into forty five five point four. Consensus was forty nine point four, so a big miss there. Last period was forty nine point one. So the new orders kind of gives you a little bit of a leaning indicator weaker than expected.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am Eastern on applecar Play and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station. Just say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty.

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It's stop technology, Let's do it. Why not?

It's stop technology, Let's do it. Why not?

Also apparently with the New York Post calls the best dressed man on.

Also apparently with the New York Post calls the best dressed man on.

Well, that's debatable, dude. I mean, I actually have a problem with his wardrobe, and I just I tend to look past it. Dan ives joined just because he's a big Penn State fan, So I look past it. Dan I's managing director Senior Equity analys for web Boast Securities. Hey Dan, thanks so much for joining us here. Let's talk about chips. And we talked about AI, and you've been on front of this AI trade and really getting people up the speed on on AI and how to play it. But are we still focusing on the chips? Here? Is it in video and everybody else?

Well, that's debatable, dude. I mean, I actually have a problem with his wardrobe, and I just I tend to look past it. Dan ives joined just because he's a big Penn State fan, So I look past it. Dan I's managing director Senior Equity analys for web Boast Securities. Hey Dan, thanks so much for joining us here. Let's talk about chips. And we talked about AI, and you've been on front of this AI trade and really getting people up the speed on on AI and how to play it. But are we still focusing on the chips? Here? Is it in video and everybody else?

I mean, look is there? Ultimately it's Jensen and Nvidia's world. Everyone else paying rent? And if you because just plays out, no Amduisa, Sue, potentially Intel, others in the semi food chain, they will start to see a benefit twenty twenty five, twenty six. But for now, there's only one game in town, and that's in video and right I just continue to see an autobond type of path for Jensen and video.

I mean, look is there? Ultimately it's Jensen and Nvidia's world. Everyone else paying rent? And if you because just plays out, no Amduisa, Sue, potentially Intel, others in the semi food chain, they will start to see a benefit twenty twenty five, twenty six. But for now, there's only one game in town, and that's in video and right I just continue to see an autobond type of path for Jensen and video.

Yeah, if anyone watching our YouTube feed can see Dan, now it's kind of in a cotton candy sort of colored shirt right now, but.

Yeah, if anyone watching our YouTube feed can see Dan, now it's kind of in a cotton candy sort of colored shirt right now, but.

You know its charcoal gray suit very exactly. That's the way I was brought up a long fan.

You know its charcoal gray suit very exactly. That's the way I was brought up a long fan.

Can't You can't get the investment banker out of him?

Can't You can't get the investment banker out of him?

No, Dan brings much more color to the whole game. No, Damn.

No, Dan brings much more color to the whole game. No, Damn.

Dan always does so speaking, but sucks. Look at the socks this morning, the Philadelphia City Conductor Index that moving higher. Obviously it houses Bellweather's like in Nvidia, AMD and Intel. But talk to us more about TSMC and some of these other Nvidia suppliers in Asia and what that really means for the development coming off of the back of Obviously we're gonna have that ten for one stock split for in Nvidia coming to Fruition right before the opening of trading on June tenth, So not too far away here, Yeah.

Dan always does so speaking, but sucks. Look at the socks this morning, the Philadelphia City Conductor Index that moving higher. Obviously it houses Bellweather's like in Nvidia, AMD and Intel. But talk to us more about TSMC and some of these other Nvidia suppliers in Asia and what that really means for the development coming off of the back of Obviously we're gonna have that ten for one stock split for in Nvidia coming to Fruition right before the opening of trading on June tenth, So not too far away here, Yeah.

Jess, I mean our team was in Taiwan last week. Parties just getting started, and for TSMC for the for the other semi players, I mean, we're seeing demand well into twenty twenty five and this is not double ordering. I think it just shows this AI revolution is kicked off and it's not just the big tech players that are going to benefit now, it's the second, third, fourth derivatives. And that's what we're seeing play out in tech. I have and I have nos that's clearly playing out across NASNAC.

Jess, I mean our team was in Taiwan last week. Parties just getting started, and for TSMC for the for the other semi players, I mean, we're seeing demand well into twenty twenty five and this is not double ordering. I think it just shows this AI revolution is kicked off and it's not just the big tech players that are going to benefit now, it's the second, third, fourth derivatives. And that's what we're seeing play out in tech. I have and I have nos that's clearly playing out across NASNAC.

Hey, Dan, you know, just look looking ahead a little bit here. A week from today, I believe that we're gonna have that developed conference for Apple. It just seems to me that there's a the expectations there. I think investors want to be kind of wowed a little bit by Apple and maybe some AI discussion. Are we gonna get that or are we going to be disappointed? Do you think?

Hey, Dan, you know, just look looking ahead a little bit here. A week from today, I believe that we're gonna have that developed conference for Apple. It just seems to me that there's a the expectations there. I think investors want to be kind of wowed a little bit by Apple and maybe some AI discussion. Are we gonna get that or are we going to be disappointed? Do you think?

Yeah, Look, we'll be there a week from now. And I think it's the biggest event for Cooking Cooper Tino in over a decade because this is AI coming app. I think most consumers their interaction with generative AI is going to be through an Apple device. So this is important for developers to lay out the stack, what the feature functionality looks like. I think it's your early start of an AI app store, and then the drum roll to an AI driven iPhone in terms of iPhone sixteen will ultimately be iPhone seventy. I think to run us on to growth, it's a massive event for Apple.

Yeah, Look, we'll be there a week from now. And I think it's the biggest event for Cooking Cooper Tino in over a decade because this is AI coming app. I think most consumers their interaction with generative AI is going to be through an Apple device. So this is important for developers to lay out the stack, what the feature functionality looks like. I think it's your early start of an AI app store, and then the drum roll to an AI driven iPhone in terms of iPhone sixteen will ultimately be iPhone seventy. I think to run us on to growth, it's a massive event for Apple.

What about switching it up and looking over to Tesla because I know that's a name that I believe you took off of one of your conviction lists earlier this year. Where do you see that stuckheaded from here?

What about switching it up and looking over to Tesla because I know that's a name that I believe you took off of one of your conviction lists earlier this year. Where do you see that stuckheaded from here?

Yeah, it's been in category five storm, but I think they're starting to get through it. I think if you could demand in China's stabilized and ultimately checked by check, I think they're getting rid of some of the overhangings That one is late next week. Does must get that twenty eighteen compactage approved? I think it does get approved. I think that's been a bit of an overhang, and then it's really about demand stabilizing and the next part of the store, the sub thirty kvehicle as well as FSD taking hold. I think that's a big part of the valuation to the Tesla store.

Yeah, it's been in category five storm, but I think they're starting to get through it. I think if you could demand in China's stabilized and ultimately checked by check, I think they're getting rid of some of the overhangings That one is late next week. Does must get that twenty eighteen compactage approved? I think it does get approved. I think that's been a bit of an overhang, and then it's really about demand stabilizing and the next part of the store, the sub thirty kvehicle as well as FSD taking hold. I think that's a big part of the valuation to the Tesla store.

So for it's for Tesla and a you know, a lower price car, whether it's sub thirty thousand, whatever the price tag is. I mean, and you're modeling, dan, can they make money on a per unit basis at that price point.

So for it's for Tesla and a you know, a lower price car, whether it's sub thirty thousand, whatever the price tag is. I mean, and you're modeling, dan, can they make money on a per unit basis at that price point.

They can't. I think they can make money up to about twenty three to twenty four k. But that's look that the scale and scope that's been that's been the whole key of success. I mean, despite everything that we've seen, it used to be fifty five thousand. Now they can make money at twenty two to twenty four thousand. So I think that's really something that you're seeing across I think the industry, their ability to scale, that's a huge part of their advantage. And of course not just here but especially in China and around the world.

They can't. I think they can make money up to about twenty three to twenty four k. But that's look that the scale and scope that's been that's been the whole key of success. I mean, despite everything that we've seen, it used to be fifty five thousand. Now they can make money at twenty two to twenty four thousand. So I think that's really something that you're seeing across I think the industry, their ability to scale, that's a huge part of their advantage. And of course not just here but especially in China and around the world.

Are there particular technical levels you're watching for Tesla's stock to see like if the worst of the pain is already passed.

Are there particular technical levels you're watching for Tesla's stock to see like if the worst of the pain is already passed.

Yeah, I think Look in my mind from a sentiment perspective, it has just been as negative as I've seen it in a number of years. I think as we get passed, wait next week the shareholder meeting, you start see stabilization in two Q and three Q, and then I think investors start to look into next year. But again, betting against Musk, betting against Tesla, that's been the wrong bet. Despite you know, I think many that are piled on and I think yet it again, this will be proven to be more of a golden opportunity to own Tessa rather in the start of a negative decline.

Yeah, I think Look in my mind from a sentiment perspective, it has just been as negative as I've seen it in a number of years. I think as we get passed, wait next week the shareholder meeting, you start see stabilization in two Q and three Q, and then I think investors start to look into next year. But again, betting against Musk, betting against Tesla, that's been the wrong bet. Despite you know, I think many that are piled on and I think yet it again, this will be proven to be more of a golden opportunity to own Tessa rather in the start of a negative decline.

All right, Dan, thanks so much for joining us as I always appreciate it. Dan, if he's a managing director senior equity analyst at web Bush Securities, joining us here talking all things technology. That's one of the great things about chatting with Dan. You can kind of go all over the tech map and get a conviction comments is kind of.

All right, Dan, thanks so much for joining us as I always appreciate it. Dan, if he's a managing director senior equity analyst at web Bush Securities, joining us here talking all things technology. That's one of the great things about chatting with Dan. You can kind of go all over the tech map and get a conviction comments is kind of.

Way the Wall Street's best dressed according to the New York Post. But Paula, we call you the fashion police here.

Way the Wall Street's best dressed according to the New York Post. But Paula, we call you the fashion police here.

Yeah. Total.

Yeah. Total.

So if you you saw Dan in the Bloomberg headquarters, would you stop him last summer? I think somebody came in with sandals.

So if you you saw Dan in the Bloomberg headquarters, would you stop him last summer? I think somebody came in with sandals.

It was.

It was.

Over your condos clip tops.

Over your condos clip tops.

I'd like to come barefoot.

I'd like to come barefoot.

Yeah, well, Dan, you're right. He was written up in the New York Post his uh wonderful wardrobe that he wears. Plus it's all around the world because the guy's always.

Yeah, well, Dan, you're right. He was written up in the New York Post his uh wonderful wardrobe that he wears. Plus it's all around the world because the guy's always.

All right, you guys a learn about where he buys all.

All right, you guys a learn about where he buys all.

Of these up exactly.

Of these up exactly.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us Live weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple Car playing Enroud Auto with the Bloomberg Business app, Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us Live weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple Car playing Enroud Auto with the Bloomberg Business app, Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

SPX up about ten eleven percent this year. SPW the Equal Weighted Index up about four and a half percent here, so still some of those big names kind of driving it here a little bit.

SPX up about ten eleven percent this year. SPW the Equal Weighted Index up about four and a half percent here, so still some of those big names kind of driving it here a little bit.

Also, the S and P five hundred up twenty three of the past thirty one week, so that since the October low, if you want to go back, that was around October twenty seventh when the S and P made that low, up about coming into today's trading twenty eight percent since that.

Also, the S and P five hundred up twenty three of the past thirty one week, so that since the October low, if you want to go back, that was around October twenty seventh when the S and P made that low, up about coming into today's trading twenty eight percent since that.

Let's see what the pros are doing here. Margi Battel is certainly a pro. She's been doing this for some time, has some great perspective market. Bettel is a senior portfolio managered all Spring Global Investments, joining us from Boston via zoom Markie. When you talk to your clients here, what do you tell them about these markets? Should they be focusing on the big tech names, should they be broadening it out to some other sectors. What kind of discussions are you having with your clients these days?

Let's see what the pros are doing here. Margi Battel is certainly a pro. She's been doing this for some time, has some great perspective market. Bettel is a senior portfolio managered all Spring Global Investments, joining us from Boston via zoom Markie. When you talk to your clients here, what do you tell them about these markets? Should they be focusing on the big tech names, should they be broadening it out to some other sectors. What kind of discussions are you having with your clients these days?

Well, we still think the tech sector is one of the leading sectors because they still have secutor growth and cyclical growth behind and so we don't think the sector is really overvalued. Considering the growth that they should have over the next one two three years. We think they still pretty fairly priced and it's still going to be one of the fastest growing sectors.

Well, we still think the tech sector is one of the leading sectors because they still have secutor growth and cyclical growth behind and so we don't think the sector is really overvalued. Considering the growth that they should have over the next one two three years. We think they still pretty fairly priced and it's still going to be one of the fastest growing sectors.

So it's still a market that's selective.

So it's still a market that's selective.

We see opportunities in some of the industrials, particularly those companies that are linked to somebody the mega trends such as the move to the cloud and data centers and reindustrialization, reshore and things like that, But a more selective market I think is going.

We see opportunities in some of the industrials, particularly those companies that are linked to somebody the mega trends such as the move to the cloud and data centers and reindustrialization, reshore and things like that, But a more selective market I think is going.

To continue well, Margie. As the calendar just flipped to June, obviously there's different ways to cut kind of seasonality different actors. I know people like to talk about the juneswoon or even Seliman go away, but obviously if you look over the last decade really hasn't worked as well. If you use the seag go function in the terminal, you can see how the S and P five hundreds only been down twice in June over the last decade. So in twenty twenty two, during that beer market and then in twenty fifteen, obviously that correlated with what was going on with some manufacturing slowdowns in China and then obviously those highly indebted European countries that was worries of default there. But in election year periods, typically the summer can actually be a stronger period, but that usually comes when there's more clarity as far as who the winner would be very different kind of setup that we have this time around. But I'm wondering over the next few months, where do you see stocks headed from your as far as when Paul and I were just talking about the rally that the SMP has been on since that October left, well, I don't.

To continue well, Margie. As the calendar just flipped to June, obviously there's different ways to cut kind of seasonality different actors. I know people like to talk about the juneswoon or even Seliman go away, but obviously if you look over the last decade really hasn't worked as well. If you use the seag go function in the terminal, you can see how the S and P five hundreds only been down twice in June over the last decade. So in twenty twenty two, during that beer market and then in twenty fifteen, obviously that correlated with what was going on with some manufacturing slowdowns in China and then obviously those highly indebted European countries that was worries of default there. But in election year periods, typically the summer can actually be a stronger period, but that usually comes when there's more clarity as far as who the winner would be very different kind of setup that we have this time around. But I'm wondering over the next few months, where do you see stocks headed from your as far as when Paul and I were just talking about the rally that the SMP has been on since that October left, well, I don't.

Think you can.

Think you can.

We always look at the history books to give you comfort for how this year is going to work out. I think we have just a narrow window for the Fed to act if they're going to lower rate before. They'll want to be quiet before the election. But typically election years a strong years. They may waffle around mid year like right now, but no matter who wins, they seem to have a strong finish to the end of the year.

We always look at the history books to give you comfort for how this year is going to work out. I think we have just a narrow window for the Fed to act if they're going to lower rate before. They'll want to be quiet before the election. But typically election years a strong years. They may waffle around mid year like right now, but no matter who wins, they seem to have a strong finish to the end of the year.

So we think that we may see a little bit of back and forth here.

So we think that we may see a little bit of back and forth here.

Uncertainty of a fed policy over world, the economy continue to show any weakening trends, and then the market I think will look to the end of the year and be pretty optimistic again.

Uncertainty of a fed policy over world, the economy continue to show any weakening trends, and then the market I think will look to the end of the year and be pretty optimistic again.

So we're looking for a strong finish.

So we're looking for a strong finish.

Margie, how much is that strong finish predicated upon earnings? I'd love to get your thoughts on kind of what we're seeing in the earnings from corporate America this year and what you expect for the remainder of the year. Can that be a driver of stocks?

Margie, how much is that strong finish predicated upon earnings? I'd love to get your thoughts on kind of what we're seeing in the earnings from corporate America this year and what you expect for the remainder of the year. Can that be a driver of stocks?

Well, I think it'll be more of the same companies just as last year. They're more or less continuing to surprise.

Well, I think it'll be more of the same companies just as last year. They're more or less continuing to surprise.

With better earnings.

With better earnings.

Profit margins are being maintained. I think that's a little benefit from this little above average inflation that's helping companies. And really, if you look at the first quarterer, we had growth in the GDP of one point three s and P revenues are up i think four percent officer of ten percent, So I think it shows you that the standard and poors our Nasdaq companies are not necessarily reflective of what you see for the say the GDP numbers, and shows companies can still.

Profit margins are being maintained. I think that's a little benefit from this little above average inflation that's helping companies. And really, if you look at the first quarterer, we had growth in the GDP of one point three s and P revenues are up i think four percent officer of ten percent, So I think it shows you that the standard and poors our Nasdaq companies are not necessarily reflective of what you see for the say the GDP numbers, and shows companies can still.

Grind out profits that are way above the GDP growth.

Grind out profits that are way above the GDP growth.

So we think that's what we're going to see, is more something close to that ten percent earnings growth for the year or for the rest of the year.

So we think that's what we're going to see, is more something close to that ten percent earnings growth for the year or for the rest of the year.

What are some of your top questions that you're getting from clients right now.

What are some of your top questions that you're getting from clients right now.

Well, I think everyone is concerned about interest rates, Will the Fed act or won't they act? And what influence will that have on the economy. I personally don't think it's going to have very much a material impact either way. A quarter or point I think will really change the direction of the economy. It's pretty strong, and people are, of course very concerned about the deficit, how where the money will come from, what we need from foreign investors. Will that cause treasury rates to go up as the government needs to finance very large, very large deficits. I think those are the things that people are focusing on, really more macro rather than any individual sector.

Well, I think everyone is concerned about interest rates, Will the Fed act or won't they act? And what influence will that have on the economy. I personally don't think it's going to have very much a material impact either way. A quarter or point I think will really change the direction of the economy. It's pretty strong, and people are, of course very concerned about the deficit, how where the money will come from, what we need from foreign investors. Will that cause treasury rates to go up as the government needs to finance very large, very large deficits. I think those are the things that people are focusing on, really more macro rather than any individual sector.

Margie. For no particular reason, this studio of radio professionals feels like they're experts on the industrial the electrical grid here, and a lot of folks feel like, you know, maybe utilities are a way to play AI and things like that. How do you think about the grid, the power grid and how it plays into this economy.

Margie. For no particular reason, this studio of radio professionals feels like they're experts on the industrial the electrical grid here, and a lot of folks feel like, you know, maybe utilities are a way to play AI and things like that. How do you think about the grid, the power grid and how it plays into this economy.

Well, I think it's funny.

Well, I think it's funny.

It's one of the most boring parts of the market has become one of the most hot and trendy parts.

It's one of the most boring parts of the market has become one of the most hot and trendy parts.

I think the utility companies, I think are.

I think the utility companies, I think are.

Rather limited way to play the growth in power consumption that we expect we'll see from economic growth and of course from the data centers. And I think a more interesting way to take advantage of those trends really is which companies will participate in the growth of building the infrastructure, hardening the grid, things like that. Again, so that says more companies in the industrial space rather than the utility space, although you could make a case for some of the independent power companies that have excess power that will be able to help balance the needs between various regions and between say unreliable or variable green sources versus space loads such as coal or gas or nuclear.

Rather limited way to play the growth in power consumption that we expect we'll see from economic growth and of course from the data centers. And I think a more interesting way to take advantage of those trends really is which companies will participate in the growth of building the infrastructure, hardening the grid, things like that. Again, so that says more companies in the industrial space rather than the utility space, although you could make a case for some of the independent power companies that have excess power that will be able to help balance the needs between various regions and between say unreliable or variable green sources versus space loads such as coal or gas or nuclear.

When you're looking at utilities companies, typically people think of them as obviously the consistent dividends that they pay and low volatility, but also in addition to the AI sort of play with this. Could this be basically investors seeing that peak and rates that's happening when you're seeing a particular corner like this that has been rallying since it's April nineteenth, lows that we solve for that particular sevenst group.

When you're looking at utilities companies, typically people think of them as obviously the consistent dividends that they pay and low volatility, but also in addition to the AI sort of play with this. Could this be basically investors seeing that peak and rates that's happening when you're seeing a particular corner like this that has been rallying since it's April nineteenth, lows that we solve for that particular sevenst group.

Well, really, when you look at the utilities, when you look at their price earns ratio, and you look at their dividend yields on that basis, they aren't really attractive as attractors say. It's as they've been historically compared to treasury rates. When you have a tender treasury, say four and a half, four and threecord or something like that, most dividends on utilities are a lot lower. So they really are as competitive as say, as it used to be some years ago, where there would be more of an interest rate played by buying the utilities to get the very high dividend. You'll say, just really, I don't think can be as competitive, just as intermedia.

Well, really, when you look at the utilities, when you look at their price earns ratio, and you look at their dividend yields on that basis, they aren't really attractive as attractors say. It's as they've been historically compared to treasury rates. When you have a tender treasury, say four and a half, four and threecord or something like that, most dividends on utilities are a lot lower. So they really are as competitive as say, as it used to be some years ago, where there would be more of an interest rate played by buying the utilities to get the very high dividend. You'll say, just really, I don't think can be as competitive, just as intermedia.

Treasures push that blue button there. Margie, thanks so much for joining us here. Market Bettel, senior portfolio management offspring of Global Investments, joining us from Boston via zoom.

Treasures push that blue button there. Margie, thanks so much for joining us here. Market Bettel, senior portfolio management offspring of Global Investments, joining us from Boston via zoom.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple card Play and Android Auto. With the Bloomberg Business app, you can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, Just say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple card Play and Android Auto. With the Bloomberg Business app, you can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, Just say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty.

Jess Mean sitting in for Alex Steele on Paul Sweeney. We live here in on our Bloomberg Inactor Brooker Studio. You streaming live on the internet, John Tucker, that's the internet I've heard of. So I've heard dot com and you can search Bielberg podcast and that's where you find it's. Peter Vosser joins us. He's the chairman of A b b a publicly traded company. A b b N is the ticker.

Jess Mean sitting in for Alex Steele on Paul Sweeney. We live here in on our Bloomberg Inactor Brooker Studio. You streaming live on the internet, John Tucker, that's the internet I've heard of. So I've heard dot com and you can search Bielberg podcast and that's where you find it's. Peter Vosser joins us. He's the chairman of A b b a publicly traded company. A b b N is the ticker.

Uh.

Uh.

They are located in Europe and in Zurich. Are good friends? Over and switching. My daughter's in Zurich today? Oh really? Why on holiday? I have no idea, but that's where she has said. I got something. It is it's a beautiful city. Peter, talk to us about ABB What are the challenges you guys are facing here? So you think about to electrify, automate hard, to decarbonize industries. Where's your focus of your company these days?

They are located in Europe and in Zurich. Are good friends? Over and switching. My daughter's in Zurich today? Oh really? Why on holiday? I have no idea, but that's where she has said. I got something. It is it's a beautiful city. Peter, talk to us about ABB What are the challenges you guys are facing here? So you think about to electrify, automate hard, to decarbonize industries. Where's your focus of your company these days?

Well, thanks for having me. It's clearly it's the energy transition, which is not only the heart to abate sectors. It's in general the move from a more foscile driven and that system into electric that you system, and then we obviously contribute with our products and systems, which gives us energy savings between twenty and forty or even fifty percent.

Well, thanks for having me. It's clearly it's the energy transition, which is not only the heart to abate sectors. It's in general the move from a more foscile driven and that system into electric that you system, and then we obviously contribute with our products and systems, which gives us energy savings between twenty and forty or even fifty percent.

So that's one angle.

So that's one angle.

The other one is all linked to new technologies around automation and robotics, because we are world leading company in both areas, and that has to do with the reshuring, bringing things closer home again where the markets are, but also in some countries, dealing with the demographics because we have less and less people working in the working age, and therefore robotics and the automation becomes very important. And the last one is AI, which will revolutionize obviously all what's related to automation.

The other one is all linked to new technologies around automation and robotics, because we are world leading company in both areas, and that has to do with the reshuring, bringing things closer home again where the markets are, but also in some countries, dealing with the demographics because we have less and less people working in the working age, and therefore robotics and the automation becomes very important. And the last one is AI, which will revolutionize obviously all what's related to automation.

In the future, we'll talk to us more about what you think is the best way to try to scale manufacturing. When it comes to the EVE charging space, I.

In the future, we'll talk to us more about what you think is the best way to try to scale manufacturing. When it comes to the EVE charging space, I.

Think what we really need on the emobility side. Let me put it this way, is really work on two fronts. One is a technical side on the charging side, but the other one is also on the user friendiness side, so that they become actually more reliable. They are much more modern. On the manufacturing side, I think we have had clearly in some countries and regions there was some scarcity of manufacturing capacity, which I think have been sold. Was not an issue for ABB in that sense, but it's the product evolution which is very key now. On the other side, I think one that should not forget that the whole network of electrification needs to be up to speed. You cannot just actually consume much more energy. You also need to build the transmission lines that the power actually comes in. Where we have got let's say the charge is installed either for a private passenger cars or for busses, ships, trains, whatever.

Think what we really need on the emobility side. Let me put it this way, is really work on two fronts. One is a technical side on the charging side, but the other one is also on the user friendiness side, so that they become actually more reliable. They are much more modern. On the manufacturing side, I think we have had clearly in some countries and regions there was some scarcity of manufacturing capacity, which I think have been sold. Was not an issue for ABB in that sense, but it's the product evolution which is very key now. On the other side, I think one that should not forget that the whole network of electrification needs to be up to speed. You cannot just actually consume much more energy. You also need to build the transmission lines that the power actually comes in. Where we have got let's say the charge is installed either for a private passenger cars or for busses, ships, trains, whatever.

You want to call it.

You want to call it.

So I think we need much more infrastructure investments on the one side, and really really to actually get to ev charging and the passenger cars based on electrification much more developed in the future.

So I think we need much more infrastructure investments on the one side, and really really to actually get to ev charging and the passenger cars based on electrification much more developed in the future.

Peter, who are some of your bigger customers that you're working with these days?

Peter, who are some of your bigger customers that you're working with these days?

We are here in the United States, so we have all kinds of manufacturing companies in that sense. But on the industrial side, any any company you can think of which are they are in manufacturing space. For example, they use our electification products, they use our automation products, So you have all the industrial companies and that's where we make the difference. The other side, utilities are very key. As I just said, they need to make sure we have an off supply.

We are here in the United States, so we have all kinds of manufacturing companies in that sense. But on the industrial side, any any company you can think of which are they are in manufacturing space. For example, they use our electification products, they use our automation products, So you have all the industrial companies and that's where we make the difference. The other side, utilities are very key. As I just said, they need to make sure we have an off supply.

And I know, I'm just looking at our PGeo function where I can see where your revenue comes by geography. You're everywhere, a third in Europe, a thirde in you know, you're all You're truly a global company. Do you see certain parts of the world that are more in front of you know, kind of making the transition then some others.

And I know, I'm just looking at our PGeo function where I can see where your revenue comes by geography. You're everywhere, a third in Europe, a thirde in you know, you're all You're truly a global company. Do you see certain parts of the world that are more in front of you know, kind of making the transition then some others.

Yeah, I think I would say that Europe has started this rather early with the new Green Deal in Europe, but also moving into a very different energy systems. Paid some price with the wars in Russia, so energy prices have gone up and that some rethinking has taken place.

Yeah, I think I would say that Europe has started this rather early with the new Green Deal in Europe, but also moving into a very different energy systems. Paid some price with the wars in Russia, so energy prices have gone up and that some rethinking has taken place.

I think here in the.

I think here in the.

US you quite clearly see the demand is there in all industries now supported by the various acts you have here, either the Inflation Act or then also the Industrial Act, and that is driving investments.

US you quite clearly see the demand is there in all industries now supported by the various acts you have here, either the Inflation Act or then also the Industrial Act, and that is driving investments.

Now.

Now.

It's much earlier days than in Europe. For example. AHA is a little bit of mixed back, I have to say. So you see some countries at the leading edge like smaller company countries like Singapore. In China, which is our second biggest market after the US, you see actually a lot of efforts now being put in place to change the electric system in China. A lot of EV cars are coming in and you can see that those really are now generating the growth in China. Y city subdued compared to the US at this stage. So indeed, we are operating across the world in more than one hundred countries. We get good insights. At the moment, the driving forces are really the US and Europe, with let's say Asia apart from India are lacking somewhat.

It's much earlier days than in Europe. For example. AHA is a little bit of mixed back, I have to say. So you see some countries at the leading edge like smaller company countries like Singapore. In China, which is our second biggest market after the US, you see actually a lot of efforts now being put in place to change the electric system in China. A lot of EV cars are coming in and you can see that those really are now generating the growth in China. Y city subdued compared to the US at this stage. So indeed, we are operating across the world in more than one hundred countries. We get good insights. At the moment, the driving forces are really the US and Europe, with let's say Asia apart from India are lacking somewhat.

So where else do you go to expand from here when you already are in so many places?

So where else do you go to expand from here when you already are in so many places?

It's quite clearly US is our key number one market and that's where we have a developing We have over the last ten years, we have put more than fourteen billion dollars into the US in terms of investments. We have got forty manufacturing sites in twenty states. We're operating in all states with our services, et cetera. So that's a key market. We see the electrification market in the US as key, but also the industrial one, which has a lot to do with bringing home let's say, manufacturing capabilities and capacity. And then the second one is clearly India, which at the moment is in terms of growth outstripping all other countries in a big way. They are very low in manufacturing capacity and that's where a lot of investments now for the high end manufacturing goes in. And then the third one will be Europe quite clearly as the European change in the energy system, but also the demographic issues which we have in Europe which will take out about fifty million of working people over the next ten years and that needs to be replaced by automation and robotics.

It's quite clearly US is our key number one market and that's where we have a developing We have over the last ten years, we have put more than fourteen billion dollars into the US in terms of investments. We have got forty manufacturing sites in twenty states. We're operating in all states with our services, et cetera. So that's a key market. We see the electrification market in the US as key, but also the industrial one, which has a lot to do with bringing home let's say, manufacturing capabilities and capacity. And then the second one is clearly India, which at the moment is in terms of growth outstripping all other countries in a big way. They are very low in manufacturing capacity and that's where a lot of investments now for the high end manufacturing goes in. And then the third one will be Europe quite clearly as the European change in the energy system, but also the demographic issues which we have in Europe which will take out about fifty million of working people over the next ten years and that needs to be replaced by automation and robotics.

So there's a lot of investments on going there. Peter, thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate you coming here. Peter Barso he's the chairman of ABB. The ticker symbol put into your Bloomberg from ABB and Trades in Switzerland stuck about half a percent today, all time high for the stock today. So that's why we get the audience for stocks at it all the time high. It's got an airy scream billion Swiss frank market caps of not too shabby. Peter Bosser from ABB joining us Here.

So there's a lot of investments on going there. Peter, thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate you coming here. Peter Barso he's the chairman of ABB. The ticker symbol put into your Bloomberg from ABB and Trades in Switzerland stuck about half a percent today, all time high for the stock today. So that's why we get the audience for stocks at it all the time high. It's got an airy scream billion Swiss frank market caps of not too shabby. Peter Bosser from ABB joining us Here.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am Eastern on applecar Play and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, Just say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am Eastern on applecar Play and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, Just say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty.

Let's talk about global energy, and we do that with Ellen Walden. She joins us some transversal. Ellen, I'm seeing WTA crude oil off about three point two percent here today, it's seventy four dollars and fifty cents. What's your thoughts here, Ellen, about the global energy market? What's kind of winning the day here? Supply demand? What should we be focusing on?

Let's talk about global energy, and we do that with Ellen Walden. She joins us some transversal. Ellen, I'm seeing WTA crude oil off about three point two percent here today, it's seventy four dollars and fifty cents. What's your thoughts here, Ellen, about the global energy market? What's kind of winning the day here? Supply demand? What should we be focusing on?

I think right now we're seeing kind of some of a reaction to opaq pluses recent decision to start to maybe unwind the voluntary supply cuts in twenty twenty five. So we're not actually talking about a whole lot of oil. They're still keeping a lot of their supply cuts in place. But I don't think that the market really expected such long term guidance from OPEK, and so it's they're reacting to that. And it's kind of interesting because gasoline prices in the US are also trending downward, which is not something we'd usually expect, you know, with this summer driving season starting, I think that there's kind of some tension here between what is looking Could it could potentially be a slightly under supplied market, or if you know, we keep seeing inflation running high, then we could even see the reverse. And I think the markets are just not quite sure at this point, you know, what to expect this summer.

I think right now we're seeing kind of some of a reaction to opaq pluses recent decision to start to maybe unwind the voluntary supply cuts in twenty twenty five. So we're not actually talking about a whole lot of oil. They're still keeping a lot of their supply cuts in place. But I don't think that the market really expected such long term guidance from OPEK, and so it's they're reacting to that. And it's kind of interesting because gasoline prices in the US are also trending downward, which is not something we'd usually expect, you know, with this summer driving season starting, I think that there's kind of some tension here between what is looking Could it could potentially be a slightly under supplied market, or if you know, we keep seeing inflation running high, then we could even see the reverse. And I think the markets are just not quite sure at this point, you know, what to expect this summer.

So it seems as if there's no room for more supply if the group, when we are talking about OPEC plus, wants to defend those prices, let alone push them higher. Walk us through the dynamic here of what's set up over the next couple of months.

So it seems as if there's no room for more supply if the group, when we are talking about OPEC plus, wants to defend those prices, let alone push them higher. Walk us through the dynamic here of what's set up over the next couple of months.

Yeah, So the group has basically decided to hold their current production level steady through the rest of twenty twenty four and then starting in twenty twenty five, the plan is that they some countries are going well. UAE in particular is going to start producing a little bit more because their baseline production is going to start to be inching up, and other countries like Saudi Arabia and Russia and other countries that have made extra voluntary cuts are going to slowly start to unwind those mid twenty twenty five. So this is really just a very gradual process. And I think part of it is because they really didn't want to shock the market. They really don't want prices to fall. I think they're very happy, or at least Saudi Arabia is quite happy with prices in you know, in the eighties that generally tends to be prices that Saudi Arabia seas is good because the Saudis do not want prices to be too high. They're not like, oh, we want one hundred and twenty dollars a barrel a country, because they see that as basically asking for demand destruction and they want to sell their oil, so you know, it is kind of a sweet spot that they're trying to maintain. I think that prices probably will recover unless there's some serious signs of you know, economic trouble, you know, heading into say a bit of full blown recession or something like that. I do think otherwise we are seeing pretty strong demand and I think prices will probably recover. You know, Brett will recover to the eighties at least the low eighties.

Yeah, So the group has basically decided to hold their current production level steady through the rest of twenty twenty four and then starting in twenty twenty five, the plan is that they some countries are going well. UAE in particular is going to start producing a little bit more because their baseline production is going to start to be inching up, and other countries like Saudi Arabia and Russia and other countries that have made extra voluntary cuts are going to slowly start to unwind those mid twenty twenty five. So this is really just a very gradual process. And I think part of it is because they really didn't want to shock the market. They really don't want prices to fall. I think they're very happy, or at least Saudi Arabia is quite happy with prices in you know, in the eighties that generally tends to be prices that Saudi Arabia seas is good because the Saudis do not want prices to be too high. They're not like, oh, we want one hundred and twenty dollars a barrel a country, because they see that as basically asking for demand destruction and they want to sell their oil, so you know, it is kind of a sweet spot that they're trying to maintain. I think that prices probably will recover unless there's some serious signs of you know, economic trouble, you know, heading into say a bit of full blown recession or something like that. I do think otherwise we are seeing pretty strong demand and I think prices will probably recover. You know, Brett will recover to the eighties at least the low eighties.

So Ellen, is it unusual for OPEC to forecast kind of production levels, you know, so far in advance, it seems like we've been almost on a month to month kind of scenario with OPEK and what are they going to do with their cuts? But now they're kind of giving us some visibility into next year.

So Ellen, is it unusual for OPEC to forecast kind of production levels, you know, so far in advance, it seems like we've been almost on a month to month kind of scenario with OPEK and what are they going to do with their cuts? But now they're kind of giving us some visibility into next year.

Yeah, it's it's it's like a whole new world because we kind of got used to this idea of OPEC meets every month. Every month there's a new OPEC meeting. Who knows are they going to increase production, decrease it, keep it the same, you know, and and so every month they kind of had to put this together. And I think some people thought that this was a good thing because it meant OPEK was, you know, on top of the market, ready to make adjustments for everything that was happening. But at the same time, there was no long term since you know, there's no sense of what they were looking for long term. If OPEC really wants to be this kind of market manager, you know, ensuring price stability, which is really kind of what they want, then they need to lay out some kind of long term vision. And this is what we've got now. Is the market going to go the way OPEK expects absolutely not. I think we could say for sure that's the only thing we know is that things are not going to play out exactly as they planned. But uh, but we can What we can know is that this is what OPEK wants to happen.

Yeah, it's it's it's like a whole new world because we kind of got used to this idea of OPEC meets every month. Every month there's a new OPEC meeting. Who knows are they going to increase production, decrease it, keep it the same, you know, and and so every month they kind of had to put this together. And I think some people thought that this was a good thing because it meant OPEK was, you know, on top of the market, ready to make adjustments for everything that was happening. But at the same time, there was no long term since you know, there's no sense of what they were looking for long term. If OPEC really wants to be this kind of market manager, you know, ensuring price stability, which is really kind of what they want, then they need to lay out some kind of long term vision. And this is what we've got now. Is the market going to go the way OPEK expects absolutely not. I think we could say for sure that's the only thing we know is that things are not going to play out exactly as they planned. But uh, but we can What we can know is that this is what OPEK wants to happen.

This is their their goal, and it may not play.

This is their their goal, and it may not play.

Out exactly as they have foreseen and they have laid out now they've they've gone to a pretty complex set of you know, and this month we're going to increase by this manta, next month, this Now, it's a very complex set of steps. But at the same time, the fact that that traders and also consumers have a sense of where OPEC wants things to go, I think is very very helpful for the long term health of the market.

Out exactly as they have foreseen and they have laid out now they've they've gone to a pretty complex set of you know, and this month we're going to increase by this manta, next month, this Now, it's a very complex set of steps. But at the same time, the fact that that traders and also consumers have a sense of where OPEC wants things to go, I think is very very helpful for the long term health of the market.

What do you think is the most likely outcome to unfold? Would it be that just an extension of all existing output targets would come to fruition?

What do you think is the most likely outcome to unfold? Would it be that just an extension of all existing output targets would come to fruition?

H Well, I think I think that that that's generally where they are. You know, things could change though on a dime. We could have a major hurricane that knocks out production in the Gulf of Mexico for a month or more, and then we could see OPEC to act and say, hey, we're you know, we're going to increase production by two point two million barrels a day starting you know, next week. So that's that's definitely the kind of thing that is not at all out of the question, and so you have to be prepared for this, and OPEC is certainly prepared to make adjustments as market conditions warrant. But the fact that we know that that barring these kinds of things, that if things happen the way they do, you know, the way OPEP four seas, then they are there's going to be a very kind of slow and gentle unwinding of of cuts and there will be more supply coming on the market, you know, say by next year.

H Well, I think I think that that that's generally where they are. You know, things could change though on a dime. We could have a major hurricane that knocks out production in the Gulf of Mexico for a month or more, and then we could see OPEC to act and say, hey, we're you know, we're going to increase production by two point two million barrels a day starting you know, next week. So that's that's definitely the kind of thing that is not at all out of the question, and so you have to be prepared for this, and OPEC is certainly prepared to make adjustments as market conditions warrant. But the fact that we know that that barring these kinds of things, that if things happen the way they do, you know, the way OPEP four seas, then they are there's going to be a very kind of slow and gentle unwinding of of cuts and there will be more supply coming on the market, you know, say by next year.

At this time, Ellen talk to us about the American producers were good friends in Texas and Oklahoma. What are they doing in terms of supply these days?

At this time, Ellen talk to us about the American producers were good friends in Texas and Oklahoma. What are they doing in terms of supply these days?

I think it's stayed to say are good friends in Texas? Are not partying like it's twenty fifteen or twenty sixteen. This is no longer the same market that we saw back then, where it was kind of the wild West of production. You know, tons of small companies, everyone was just producing, producing, producing. The cash was flowing from the investors. The idea was just keep up production targets. You know, didn't even matter if you weren't breaking even you know, just produce, produced, produce, drill those wells, get those barrels out there. You know, meat payroll. Those days are gone.

I think it's stayed to say are good friends in Texas? Are not partying like it's twenty fifteen or twenty sixteen. This is no longer the same market that we saw back then, where it was kind of the wild West of production. You know, tons of small companies, everyone was just producing, producing, producing. The cash was flowing from the investors. The idea was just keep up production targets. You know, didn't even matter if you weren't breaking even you know, just produce, produced, produce, drill those wells, get those barrels out there. You know, meat payroll. Those days are gone.

They there are way in the rear view mirror.

They there are way in the rear view mirror.

We've got, you know, a lot of consolidations. We've got people making very smart decisions about where they're drilling and exactly how much oil they plan to get from wells. There's a lot of very precise imaging going on. A lot of these companies are considering exactly what's around them. Their acreage has expanded, They're making very educated decisions about what wils to bring on the market. They're also facing a lot of inflationary pressures. We often think that inflation is something that high oil prices cause on the rest of us, but these oil companies also feel the effects of inflation. And it costs a lot more to drill to complete wells than it used to, and so you know, we have to take that into consideration when we're looking at what's going on. I think the wave of consolidations is probably good for the industry. It's definitely much better for kind of managing things, keeping prices more stable.

We've got, you know, a lot of consolidations. We've got people making very smart decisions about where they're drilling and exactly how much oil they plan to get from wells. There's a lot of very precise imaging going on. A lot of these companies are considering exactly what's around them. Their acreage has expanded, They're making very educated decisions about what wils to bring on the market. They're also facing a lot of inflationary pressures. We often think that inflation is something that high oil prices cause on the rest of us, but these oil companies also feel the effects of inflation. And it costs a lot more to drill to complete wells than it used to, and so you know, we have to take that into consideration when we're looking at what's going on. I think the wave of consolidations is probably good for the industry. It's definitely much better for kind of managing things, keeping prices more stable.

Than we saw.

Than we saw.

But it's not always so great for jobs because when more efficiency comes in, jobs had to get eliminated.

But it's not always so great for jobs because when more efficiency comes in, jobs had to get eliminated.

All right, Ellen, thank you so much for joining us. As always, Ellen Wald, she's president of Transversal Consulting and Senior Fellow at the Atlanta Council, one of her go to voices on global energy.

All right, Ellen, thank you so much for joining us. As always, Ellen Wald, she's president of Transversal Consulting and Senior Fellow at the Atlanta Council, one of her go to voices on global energy.

This is the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast, available on apples, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live each weekday, ten am to noon Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app tune In, and the Bloomberg Business app. You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg terminal

This is the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast, available on apples, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live each weekday, ten am to noon Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app tune In, and the Bloomberg Business app. You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg terminal