Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am Eastern on Applecarclay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am Eastern on Applecarclay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

Here's some news out on the tech side that got my attention. I got the attention of the marketplace Oracle, our good friends therea They signed a cloud service deal that could be worth thirty billion dollars a year. I said, we got to get on Ograno on this because this cloud story, this AI story, is just a story that continues to give to investors on Rograna, Technology analyst for Bloomberg Intelligence Joints is here ONROK tell us about this Oracle deal. Here. What's happening?

Here's some news out on the tech side that got my attention. I got the attention of the marketplace Oracle, our good friends therea They signed a cloud service deal that could be worth thirty billion dollars a year. I said, we got to get on Ograno on this because this cloud story, this AI story, is just a story that continues to give to investors on Rograna, Technology analyst for Bloomberg Intelligence Joints is here ONROK tell us about this Oracle deal. Here. What's happening?

Yeah, I think it caught everybody by surprise. Now, we knew that this was going to happen sometime over the next six to twelve months, but we didn't know what happened so quickly. We think this is part of the Starfate contract. This is something that's going to flow from open Ai. You know, the combination between soft Bank, Oracle and open Ai. So if you remember, there was a big deal, you know, just I think a day or two after the president took office where Larry Allison and you know, got on TV and talked about it. I you know, we think this is a byproduct of that.

Yeah, I think it caught everybody by surprise. Now, we knew that this was going to happen sometime over the next six to twelve months, but we didn't know what happened so quickly. We think this is part of the Starfate contract. This is something that's going to flow from open Ai. You know, the combination between soft Bank, Oracle and open Ai. So if you remember, there was a big deal, you know, just I think a day or two after the president took office where Larry Allison and you know, got on TV and talked about it. I you know, we think this is a byproduct of that.

How is Oracle matching up with its competitors? I mean, I know it's gained traction for renting out computing power over the Internet, and of course it's been targeting a lot of its clients that are focused on AI there. But how does it look in comparison to peers?

How is Oracle matching up with its competitors? I mean, I know it's gained traction for renting out computing power over the Internet, and of course it's been targeting a lot of its clients that are focused on AI there. But how does it look in comparison to peers?

Yeah, I think you know, it was really I mean go back a few years. It was, you know, to be honest, non existent about three years ago. So the revenue was, you know, just a handful of billion dollars or so compared to you know, somebody like an AWS which is now running at a rounderd of over one hundred billion dollars. So, but this, if you look at it, in last year alone, oracles infrastructure as a service business, which is what we look as the proxy for their cloud infrastructure business, had revenues off about ten billion dollars. So and then here comes a contract that in three years and you know, they will have thirty billion dollars annually from one just one customer. So you could see just the overall what's happening with AI? What does really need so much of computing power to run these models? And this is you know again they are going everywhere, But Oracle is you know, one of the bigger beneficiaries over here.

Yeah, I think you know, it was really I mean go back a few years. It was, you know, to be honest, non existent about three years ago. So the revenue was, you know, just a handful of billion dollars or so compared to you know, somebody like an AWS which is now running at a rounderd of over one hundred billion dollars. So, but this, if you look at it, in last year alone, oracles infrastructure as a service business, which is what we look as the proxy for their cloud infrastructure business, had revenues off about ten billion dollars. So and then here comes a contract that in three years and you know, they will have thirty billion dollars annually from one just one customer. So you could see just the overall what's happening with AI? What does really need so much of computing power to run these models? And this is you know again they are going everywhere, But Oracle is you know, one of the bigger beneficiaries over here.

Rich go rich, the world's richest people. Larry Ellison of Oracle clocks in a number four two hundred and twenty nine billion dollars, up thirty seven billion dollars year to date, the stock is up fifty two week high, an A rackets at an all time high. What's the bookcase for Oracle here? It's just just another way to play cloud slash AI.

Rich go rich, the world's richest people. Larry Ellison of Oracle clocks in a number four two hundred and twenty nine billion dollars, up thirty seven billion dollars year to date, the stock is up fifty two week high, an A rackets at an all time high. What's the bookcase for Oracle here? It's just just another way to play cloud slash AI.

Yeah, so that's the bookcase. Definitely on that end, you could see the gro thrates are going to pick up so much more than any of the other cloud providers, and partially because they're you know, the numbers are too small. As I said, they're only at about ten billion run rate or so in this case at this point. So that's one. But on the other side, you know, they will have to spend a lot on capex right now, so that capex number is going to go up margins are going to most likely take ahead. But frankly speaking, in this market right now, it's all about market share gains and which of the companies can actually benefit from all these large language model training or inference. Basically, you know they are you know, they're going everywhere. I mean look at for example, code Weep their growth rate. The SAME's the case with Microsoft, Azure or EWS. I mean, everybody in this particular ecosystem is going to make lots of money.

Yeah, so that's the bookcase. Definitely on that end, you could see the gro thrates are going to pick up so much more than any of the other cloud providers, and partially because they're you know, the numbers are too small. As I said, they're only at about ten billion run rate or so in this case at this point. So that's one. But on the other side, you know, they will have to spend a lot on capex right now, so that capex number is going to go up margins are going to most likely take ahead. But frankly speaking, in this market right now, it's all about market share gains and which of the companies can actually benefit from all these large language model training or inference. Basically, you know they are you know, they're going everywhere. I mean look at for example, code Weep their growth rate. The SAME's the case with Microsoft, Azure or EWS. I mean, everybody in this particular ecosystem is going to make lots of money.

We know, expectations remain high for a lot of these tech firms, especially as we think about the AI push. What do investors want to see right now? What's the next step for Oracle?

We know, expectations remain high for a lot of these tech firms, especially as we think about the AI push. What do investors want to see right now? What's the next step for Oracle?

I think a lot of this would become to execution in this case, because you know, this is we are assuming flawless execution in terms of data centered expansion. But what if they are not able to get enough power in there out there? I mean, what if we get into a shortage in that area. So there's going to be a lot to you know, I would say ups and downs, not just for article, but everybody in the equation where maybe the project gets delayed some funding issues. Right now, everything is fine when it comes to funding for these particular projects, but you know, those are the things that we will watch for. But other than that, I think the future is pretty bright for all the cloud providers because of the workloads that are coming in.

I think a lot of this would become to execution in this case, because you know, this is we are assuming flawless execution in terms of data centered expansion. But what if they are not able to get enough power in there out there? I mean, what if we get into a shortage in that area. So there's going to be a lot to you know, I would say ups and downs, not just for article, but everybody in the equation where maybe the project gets delayed some funding issues. Right now, everything is fine when it comes to funding for these particular projects, but you know, those are the things that we will watch for. But other than that, I think the future is pretty bright for all the cloud providers because of the workloads that are coming in.

And Rok Rana, thank you so much. We appreciate it. A Ron Rana. He's a technology analyst for Bloomberg Intelligence. Joining us via zoom from Chicago.

And Rok Rana, thank you so much. We appreciate it. A Ron Rana. He's a technology analyst for Bloomberg Intelligence. Joining us via zoom from Chicago.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am Eastern on Applecarplay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am Eastern on Applecarplay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

All right, we all know about the AI story. The tech industry is spending get jillions of dollars building up their computing power their data centers. But you know what, Apparently you have to power those data centers and that's a huge demand on the grid. So everybody's trying to figure out how are they going to do that. One topic is nuclear, Believe it or not, Nuclear is being considered heavily as a source of power for a lot of these data centers. Our next guest is an expert here, Stephanie Diaz, Senior Associate at BNF Okay, I was alive. I was in high school with three Mile Island blew a gasket and we had to go home from boarding school talk to us about nuclear Where are we as a country today with nuclear power and how can that perhaps be a solution to some of the energy needs of AI.

All right, we all know about the AI story. The tech industry is spending get jillions of dollars building up their computing power their data centers. But you know what, Apparently you have to power those data centers and that's a huge demand on the grid. So everybody's trying to figure out how are they going to do that. One topic is nuclear, Believe it or not, Nuclear is being considered heavily as a source of power for a lot of these data centers. Our next guest is an expert here, Stephanie Diaz, Senior Associate at BNF Okay, I was alive. I was in high school with three Mile Island blew a gasket and we had to go home from boarding school talk to us about nuclear Where are we as a country today with nuclear power and how can that perhaps be a solution to some of the energy needs of AI.

Yeah, So, currently we have roughly one hundred gigawatts of nuclear installed in the US, and we haven't been building much nuclear. We've built a couple of nuclear reactors in Georgia, those are the last two, but we currently don't have any under construction here in the US. Their hopes is that that would change. The Trump administration, for example, has an ambitious target to basically quadruple our nuclear fleet by twenty fifty. Getting there will be quite challenging, though, considering we really haven't built up the capacity to build on that sort of scale yet.

Yeah, So, currently we have roughly one hundred gigawatts of nuclear installed in the US, and we haven't been building much nuclear. We've built a couple of nuclear reactors in Georgia, those are the last two, but we currently don't have any under construction here in the US. Their hopes is that that would change. The Trump administration, for example, has an ambitious target to basically quadruple our nuclear fleet by twenty fifty. Getting there will be quite challenging, though, considering we really haven't built up the capacity to build on that sort of scale yet.

So where are we in comparison to outside of the US right now? Because I know we don't have a lot of nuclear here, he mentioned.

So where are we in comparison to outside of the US right now? Because I know we don't have a lot of nuclear here, he mentioned.

Well, when we say we don't have a lot, I think we actually have one of the biggest nuclear fleets in the world. If I'm not mistaken. It's more of a we haven't really been building much so it's really hard to see how we all of a sudden start flexing that muscle to build on that sort of scale.

Well, when we say we don't have a lot, I think we actually have one of the biggest nuclear fleets in the world. If I'm not mistaken. It's more of a we haven't really been building much so it's really hard to see how we all of a sudden start flexing that muscle to build on that sort of scale.

I'll tell you what I like for the nuclear I've heard this story a few times is a modular nuclear things little? What are they and how do they work?

I'll tell you what I like for the nuclear I've heard this story a few times is a modular nuclear things little? What are they and how do they work?

Yeah, so one of the a couple of well, there are dozens of startups out there that are trying to come up with new nuclear technologies. The majority of the fleet that's out there globally is these large light water reactors. What you're talking about is small modular reactors. And the idea is that we can make nuclear reactors that are much smaller, with the hopes that we can one require less capital to build a reactor and two maybe be able to do it faster and therefore overall be able to deploy on a much bigger scale. The companies that are doing that, I mean, there are dozens of them out there, and they're currently trying to work with the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission to get their designs approved so that they can start constructing these as well.

Yeah, so one of the a couple of well, there are dozens of startups out there that are trying to come up with new nuclear technologies. The majority of the fleet that's out there globally is these large light water reactors. What you're talking about is small modular reactors. And the idea is that we can make nuclear reactors that are much smaller, with the hopes that we can one require less capital to build a reactor and two maybe be able to do it faster and therefore overall be able to deploy on a much bigger scale. The companies that are doing that, I mean, there are dozens of them out there, and they're currently trying to work with the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission to get their designs approved so that they can start constructing these as well.

So can you speak a little bit more about Trump's ambitious plan here in regards to pushing this forward? Is that different than the previous administration.

So can you speak a little bit more about Trump's ambitious plan here in regards to pushing this forward? Is that different than the previous administration.

It is different from the previous administration. Biden already had what we have been considered an ambitious plan for increasing nuclear and Trump's school of four gigle or four hundred giggawatts by twenty fifty is even more ambitious. One of the things that the Trump administration has done is at the end of May they issued for executive orders all aiming to help bring nuclear online much more quickly in a couple of ways. Mainly it's by expediting the regulatory review of nuclear reactors. So currently you can take three to six years to get through that regulatory gauntlet, and the administration wants to bring that down to eighteen months for all the different pathways. How they actually go about doing that remains to be seen, though it's one thing to say we can do this in eighteen months. It's another to actually do it. You need to rewrite some rules, you need to have staff who can review these applications as they come in. So it remains to be seen how they want to do it. But there's definitely a significant push from the Trump administration to bring nuclear online. But of course it's not just having push from government. We also need pull from markets. We need to see more customers sign firm commitments to make sure that these reactors get built.

It is different from the previous administration. Biden already had what we have been considered an ambitious plan for increasing nuclear and Trump's school of four gigle or four hundred giggawatts by twenty fifty is even more ambitious. One of the things that the Trump administration has done is at the end of May they issued for executive orders all aiming to help bring nuclear online much more quickly in a couple of ways. Mainly it's by expediting the regulatory review of nuclear reactors. So currently you can take three to six years to get through that regulatory gauntlet, and the administration wants to bring that down to eighteen months for all the different pathways. How they actually go about doing that remains to be seen, though it's one thing to say we can do this in eighteen months. It's another to actually do it. You need to rewrite some rules, you need to have staff who can review these applications as they come in. So it remains to be seen how they want to do it. But there's definitely a significant push from the Trump administration to bring nuclear online. But of course it's not just having push from government. We also need pull from markets. We need to see more customers sign firm commitments to make sure that these reactors get built.

So if when a Microsoft says they're going to spend a jillion dollars on data centers, is any of that allocated to powering these data centers or is it? Are they relying upon utilities and existing grid and all that kind of stuff.

So if when a Microsoft says they're going to spend a jillion dollars on data centers, is any of that allocated to powering these data centers or is it? Are they relying upon utilities and existing grid and all that kind of stuff.

No, we've seen not big tech companies. So Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Metal all announced partnerships with different nuclear companies in order to have power for all of these data centers. And it's not just them, it's also lots of data center providers of names that we often don't know, but they're the ones who build data centers that other companies use Together, they've been announcing something like thirty two gigawatts of nuclear that they want to bring in here in the US for context, thirty two gigawats in the US for just data centers. Supposedly in the world currently we have sixty five giggle watts of nuclear reactor of nuclear reactors under construction, so they're talking about building a lot. So there's definitely lots of them thinking about a big time companies thinking about how they're going to power all of this, but like I said, it still remains to be seen how much of it actually comes online. Like I'll be more excited when I see a construction permit get issue.

No, we've seen not big tech companies. So Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Metal all announced partnerships with different nuclear companies in order to have power for all of these data centers. And it's not just them, it's also lots of data center providers of names that we often don't know, but they're the ones who build data centers that other companies use Together, they've been announcing something like thirty two gigawatts of nuclear that they want to bring in here in the US for context, thirty two gigawats in the US for just data centers. Supposedly in the world currently we have sixty five giggle watts of nuclear reactor of nuclear reactors under construction, so they're talking about building a lot. So there's definitely lots of them thinking about a big time companies thinking about how they're going to power all of this, but like I said, it still remains to be seen how much of it actually comes online. Like I'll be more excited when I see a construction permit get issue.

So where do clean energy advocates fit into this whole conversation? Has there been a push against this at all?

So where do clean energy advocates fit into this whole conversation? Has there been a push against this at all?

Yeah, it's been interesting because nuclear for so long has kind of been the pariah of clean energy, right of like we know we can do it, but we haven't done much of it. What we've seen in the last couple of years has been a big shift towards thinking more about clean base load power again, and that's why nuclear and also geothermal have come back into the conversation.

Yeah, it's been interesting because nuclear for so long has kind of been the pariah of clean energy, right of like we know we can do it, but we haven't done much of it. What we've seen in the last couple of years has been a big shift towards thinking more about clean base load power again, and that's why nuclear and also geothermal have come back into the conversation.

Power.

Power.

Baseload power is basically think of it as like round the clock power, So unlike solar and wind, which are inherently intermitt and this is the stuff where like we know we can run it as long as we want to run it, right, like you take it down for maintenance or something like that, but otherwise it can run constantly.

Baseload power is basically think of it as like round the clock power, So unlike solar and wind, which are inherently intermitt and this is the stuff where like we know we can run it as long as we want to run it, right, like you take it down for maintenance or something like that, but otherwise it can run constantly.

Interesting, So is nuclear considered a reliable from that perspective, reliable source of energy?

Interesting, So is nuclear considered a reliable from that perspective, reliable source of energy?

Correct? Because it runs constantly basically.

Correct? Because it runs constantly basically.

And where's it like Norra suggesting it. Has there been any I haven't heard any pushback from the anti nuke people out there. Are they just kind of capitulating that we're going to need all kinds of energy going forward?

And where's it like Norra suggesting it. Has there been any I haven't heard any pushback from the anti nuke people out there. Are they just kind of capitulating that we're going to need all kinds of energy going forward?

Or I mean, I don't, I don't know about that. I think maybe it's it's a little harder to I don't know, be against something when we're well, like I said, we're still in the announcement stage. We we have a lot more work to do before we get to seeing what actually comes online when plans get built and all of that.

Or I mean, I don't, I don't know about that. I think maybe it's it's a little harder to I don't know, be against something when we're well, like I said, we're still in the announcement stage. We we have a lot more work to do before we get to seeing what actually comes online when plans get built and all of that.

I mean, are there also just concerns when we think about nuclear waste? You know, I think that when you think about a lot of people pushing back, especially on some of the bills that President Donald Trump is trying to push and whatnot, how does that kind of come into play, especially as you think about that against this ambitious plan.

I mean, are there also just concerns when we think about nuclear waste? You know, I think that when you think about a lot of people pushing back, especially on some of the bills that President Donald Trump is trying to push and whatnot, how does that kind of come into play, especially as you think about that against this ambitious plan.

Yeah, so nuclear waste is honestly not something that I've spent too much time thinking about. More than anything, Like I said, we are still here focused on like can we even build it? Can we build it cheaply? Like one of the things that we saw with the two plants that we most recently built in Georgia was that they came in significantly over budget. If we want to build more nuclear in the US, like, one of the big things we're going to need to do is bring those costs down before we see any massive scaling in this industry. Oh yeah, it's much more expensive.

Yeah, so nuclear waste is honestly not something that I've spent too much time thinking about. More than anything, Like I said, we are still here focused on like can we even build it? Can we build it cheaply? Like one of the things that we saw with the two plants that we most recently built in Georgia was that they came in significantly over budget. If we want to build more nuclear in the US, like, one of the big things we're going to need to do is bring those costs down before we see any massive scaling in this industry. Oh yeah, it's much more expensive.

Ya.

Ya.

It's definitely great stuff. Thank you so much for We appreciate its. Technie Diaz Jus, a senior associate at b n EF. Those are the folks that have all the data, all the analysis within Bloomberg about the energy transition that this country and this world is going through. So they've they're experts in that stuff.

It's definitely great stuff. Thank you so much for We appreciate its. Technie Diaz Jus, a senior associate at b n EF. Those are the folks that have all the data, all the analysis within Bloomberg about the energy transition that this country and this world is going through. So they've they're experts in that stuff.

Right now, you're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am Eastern on Applecarclay, and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

Right now, you're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am Eastern on Applecarclay, and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

Well, I think it seems like forever that leadership of the stock market has been led by technology. Big tech has been the leader. We've had a lot of volatility this year. What if that's still the case? Michelle Martin joins US president for the firm's name Prosperity. It's an Eisner Airport Company joining us from Minneapolis via zoom. So, Michelle's we think about the volatility we've experienced just so far this calendar year, is Tech still the leader for this market?

Well, I think it seems like forever that leadership of the stock market has been led by technology. Big tech has been the leader. We've had a lot of volatility this year. What if that's still the case? Michelle Martin joins US president for the firm's name Prosperity. It's an Eisner Airport Company joining us from Minneapolis via zoom. So, Michelle's we think about the volatility we've experienced just so far this calendar year, is Tech still the leader for this market?

Hi? Paul, nice to be here. So Tech is actually not the leader as it relates to where we're at on a year to date basis. So what a difference six weeks makes? Right? YEP? With the pullback that we saw in April and all the uncertainty around tariffs, we've actually seen value stocks and international in particular IFAH really pick up momentum, and we're we're actually seeing a market rotation here, uh, with a move towards international value stocks. The Magnificent seven is is not the only game in town anymore.

Hi? Paul, nice to be here. So Tech is actually not the leader as it relates to where we're at on a year to date basis. So what a difference six weeks makes? Right? YEP? With the pullback that we saw in April and all the uncertainty around tariffs, we've actually seen value stocks and international in particular IFAH really pick up momentum, and we're we're actually seeing a market rotation here, uh, with a move towards international value stocks. The Magnificent seven is is not the only game in town anymore.

So you said the Max seven is not the only game in town. We're seeing a bit of a rotation toward international and value. Where are you advising that your clients be.

So you said the Max seven is not the only game in town. We're seeing a bit of a rotation toward international and value. Where are you advising that your clients be.

We're we're maintaining some some core allocations to domestic and obviously growth is not gone, but but we are broadening our allocations uh to international, Uh, primarily UH, Western Europe. We're seeing Germany breakout. We're we're really seeing an investment in defense, a little bit different look on policy, and then we're also paying attention to alternatives and really making sure that we have a lot of diversity in our fixed income as well. So this is this is really about maybe scaling back a bit on some of the growth overweight and the SMP overweight and just looking at a broader market allocation Michelle.

We're we're maintaining some some core allocations to domestic and obviously growth is not gone, but but we are broadening our allocations uh to international, Uh, primarily UH, Western Europe. We're seeing Germany breakout. We're we're really seeing an investment in defense, a little bit different look on policy, and then we're also paying attention to alternatives and really making sure that we have a lot of diversity in our fixed income as well. So this is this is really about maybe scaling back a bit on some of the growth overweight and the SMP overweight and just looking at a broader market allocation Michelle.

And in terms of fixed income here, you know you can sit there with a two year treasure and get three in a court three point seven three percent. Is that a place to be or should you be taking credit risk with your fixed income allocation?

And in terms of fixed income here, you know you can sit there with a two year treasure and get three in a court three point seven three percent. Is that a place to be or should you be taking credit risk with your fixed income allocation?

We still have some credit risk. We've we've scaled back on credit risk a little bit, Paul, because we are seeing some potential for slower growth, which which obviously means there's there's a bit of credit risk, but we're not seeing big red flakes at this point. The duration that we're seeing and what we're maintaining in our portfolios is about five years. We actually went out in duration last year and have maintained that we think that the longer duration allows us to pick up more yield. And in many instances with our clients, we're holding individual bonds, so so that volatility in uh, in the bonds is not as as not as real. We're also looking at more broader managers for fixed income where they can be more nimble, take advantage of opportunities in the market duration, interest rate differences, just just really be a bit more nimble. So that's another area where we're seeing opportunities.

We still have some credit risk. We've we've scaled back on credit risk a little bit, Paul, because we are seeing some potential for slower growth, which which obviously means there's there's a bit of credit risk, but we're not seeing big red flakes at this point. The duration that we're seeing and what we're maintaining in our portfolios is about five years. We actually went out in duration last year and have maintained that we think that the longer duration allows us to pick up more yield. And in many instances with our clients, we're holding individual bonds, so so that volatility in uh, in the bonds is not as as not as real. We're also looking at more broader managers for fixed income where they can be more nimble, take advantage of opportunities in the market duration, interest rate differences, just just really be a bit more nimble. So that's another area where we're seeing opportunities.

We talk about investment opportunities, uh, more broadly, where are you advising clients be are we thinking equities fixed income effects? Where are the opportunities right now?

We talk about investment opportunities, uh, more broadly, where are you advising clients be are we thinking equities fixed income effects? Where are the opportunities right now?

Really?

Really?

You know, from from from the FX perspective, I think you pick up something when you expand your international exposure. That's a real simple way to do it. As we see pressure on the dollar with the tariffs, just by expanding your international exposure, that's a way to pick that up. On the fixed income side, I think because we're looking we're actually looking at fixed income as a pretty stable You know, you can get four and a half to five and a half percent on core bond portfolios, very high quality corporate bonds. So when you're looking at potentially seeing a relatively slow growth in the second half of the year, this is something that's a pretty strong ballast to portfolios.

You know, from from from the FX perspective, I think you pick up something when you expand your international exposure. That's a real simple way to do it. As we see pressure on the dollar with the tariffs, just by expanding your international exposure, that's a way to pick that up. On the fixed income side, I think because we're looking we're actually looking at fixed income as a pretty stable You know, you can get four and a half to five and a half percent on core bond portfolios, very high quality corporate bonds. So when you're looking at potentially seeing a relatively slow growth in the second half of the year, this is something that's a pretty strong ballast to portfolios.

Michelle, you mentioned alternatives. What do you guys like in alternatives and what do you think a reasonable allocation should be to alternatives.

Michelle, you mentioned alternatives. What do you guys like in alternatives and what do you think a reasonable allocation should be to alternatives.

So, Paul, we typically for our portfolios, and again it depends on the client and kind of what their liquidity needs are, but anywhere from ten to twenty percent in alternatives, about half of that allocation we look at, and liquid alternatives things that have hedge funds or hedging buffers, even buffer ETF strategies can work really well to protect. On the downside, and another area that we're seeing opportunities and dislocation in the real estate market, there's very strong opportunities just because of the rise and interest rates over the last couple of years. Some developers and properties were kind of caught flat footed, didn't forecast that. So we're seeing real buying opportunities, particularly in the multifamily space and as well in the industrial space. So that those are those are areas where again taking advantage of dislocations in the market and then producting on the downside is where we're seeing the primary use of alternatives.

So, Paul, we typically for our portfolios, and again it depends on the client and kind of what their liquidity needs are, but anywhere from ten to twenty percent in alternatives, about half of that allocation we look at, and liquid alternatives things that have hedge funds or hedging buffers, even buffer ETF strategies can work really well to protect. On the downside, and another area that we're seeing opportunities and dislocation in the real estate market, there's very strong opportunities just because of the rise and interest rates over the last couple of years. Some developers and properties were kind of caught flat footed, didn't forecast that. So we're seeing real buying opportunities, particularly in the multifamily space and as well in the industrial space. So that those are those are areas where again taking advantage of dislocations in the market and then producting on the downside is where we're seeing the primary use of alternatives.

Hi, Michelle, thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate getting a few minutes of your time. Michelle Martin, President over at Prosperity. Turn us from Minnea Apples.

Hi, Michelle, thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate getting a few minutes of your time. Michelle Martin, President over at Prosperity. Turn us from Minnea Apples.

This is the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast, available on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live each weekday, ten am to noon Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, tune In, and the Bloomberg Business app. You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg terminal

This is the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast, available on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live each weekday, ten am to noon Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, tune In, and the Bloomberg Business app. You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg terminal