Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, alongside my co host Matt Miller. Every business day we bring you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. Well, the most read story, has Matt Miller pointed out to me, is from our good friends in Zirch, Credit Swiss Group. Are there, then, sir, not Geneva? Right, that's where the base Yeah, they're both in Zurich. Okay, alright. Credit Swiss Group offered to buy back up the three billion dollars of its own debt and a move aimed to coming investor Jitters ahead of the unveiling of a crucial strategy revamp later this month. Let's bring in Allison Williams. She's our senior banks analyst of Bloomberg Intelligence. She's been coming the banking industry on a global basis for decades. So, Alison, what does this mean to you? What does this mean for I guess equity investors, for creditors here for Credit Swiss, I think like like a lot of things that have happened over the past week, it's it's sort of more symbolic than anything else. It is a way for them to come out and say that, you know, we have ample liquidity in a way that people will believe if you will so as we know, um, over many years, when banks come out and say they don't need capital, they have liquidity, it ends up sometimes having the opposite effect, which is actually what we saw earlier this week in an effort to calm things. It didn't And by coming out today and doing this offer, they're showing that they do have you know, they do have ample liquidity, that's not the issue, and you are seeing the intended effect, which is some studying in the stock and bonds in fact on a very red screen today. Um, the stock is up it it was doing better earlier in the day. Is there is there an actual playbook like did John cry and have a leather bound book that he handed over to the leadership at Credit Squeeze because Deutsche Bank did the exact same thing. Um, right when right when they're uh, you know when when there was a concern about liquidity of the German bank, Well, and I think it is UM. You know, I think it is a tactical move UM to study things. I do think that the situations are are a little bit different in the sense that UM, you know, credit sweet perhaps as a little bit a little bit more to build on if you look at their some of their higher returning businesses, UM, whereas UH Deutsche Bank, I think, you know, their their portfolio is under what was under a lot more pressure, and you know, after three years of restructuring, I think they're finally coming out of it, which is a positive UM. But both banks. The similarity is when you come out and we've been talking about this this week, when you come out and say we're gonna come out with a plan it's going to be in several weeks and UM without saying it investors knowing that that might include a capital raise. It's it's uncertainty and it's sort of UM obviously can can recap it in a tough market. And so I think also having this news come out on a Friday, UM, you know, we'll make for a much less stressful and must less uncertain weekend. Hopefully UM that when we saw last weekend when there were a lot of stories and a lot of posts going around and they come out in uh, you know, two weeks and say we need to raise five billion dollars after they just blew three billion dollars on their own debt. Well again, I think that to the extent, you know, the issue with credit sueets right now is the bargaining position that they're in in terms of, uh, you know, the price that they're going to pay if you will to issue that capital right so as the stacko's lower gets less attractive, and also negotiations that they might be having with a potential buyers or investors UM the investment bank to securitized product group UM is something that they would like to get external capital. It seems like that makes the most sense if they can get a good price. The markets are obviously UM putting them in a bad position. I think if they can study things and sort of improve their negotiating position and give themselves the couple of weeks that they need to really put together a solid plan, because if they're going to come out and raise capital, you know, they're they're going to want a credible plan to offer to investors who are going to give them that capital. Alison, is there any appetite at all within the Swiss government to maybe permit ubs and credit Swiss to ever merge. I believe that's unlikely. Um. You know, we've always said, you know, not impossible, but very unlikely. If you think about ubs and credit suits and the size of those banks in particular related to the Swiss economy U. Um, it's really outside versus some of the bigger banks we have here. So we have much bigger banks, but we also have a much bigger economy, and for that reason, the Swiss regulators have sort of bigger capital requirements for these banks, um. Because the two each on their own are so significant to the economy. So I think it would be tougher um to think about, you know, the pair together. To the extent though that credit Sweeze is going to reduce its bounce sheet, reduce some of these investment backing activities, perhaps that does clear something clear the way for something down the road. Um. But again I guess we'll have to see what the new credit sweeze is going to look like. Where's the where's the office down town? Where's the New York office? Madisone levin Madison Avenue? Fantastic building? Is it? A big restaurant right there. We used to go there, like you know, when it just opened, it wasn't anything, so we'd go down there to scrap dinner after work. And now you it's again one of the top restaurants around period. So I don't know. They have a great New York City office. Credit Swiss. First Boston is a great place to work for me, a good memories. But I have to admit, and I've spoken to Allison a lot about this, it just seems like every two or three or four years they blow themselves up, and that goes back thirty years as far as I can recall, Allison Williams, thanks so much for joining us. Allison covers all the big banks for Bloomberg Intelligence. She's based in our Princeton office, and she's been doing that for decades. Before she was at Bloomberg in Tellgent, she was at Morgan Stanley Investment Management the by side, and they owned huge steaks in all of the big financial institutions across the world, and Allison was the analyst supporting all that stuff. So we appreciate getting her thoughts here. Credit Swiss. Trying to steady the ship. Gonna have a new strategy coming out later this month, and we'll be covering that as well. All Right, sports gambling, sports betting in sport, it is just a huge business. You know, it's a real business. When Bloomberg actually has a TV show, Bloomberg Television talking about the business of sports betting, and it is in the news this week again, ESPN is said to be near a large partnership with Draft Kings. Uh, that's getting a lot of interest. We want to talk about that. We're gonna be with Kaylee Lines. She is a Bloomberg Television anchor for us and joining us and she's here in our Bloomberg interactor Brooker studio. Joining us on the phone is Keith Rung and Athan. She covers all things media and against her better judgment, she has had to learn about the gambling business and the gaming business because of Mickey Mouse is getting into it. You've gotta pay attention, Kaylee. That's the crazy part, right part is getting into an addictive vice that Bruin's families exactly and go figure, that's how the world's changed. So Kaylee, let's start there. Talk to us about the sports betting business. First of all, talk to us about that and it talks about how your show addresses it. Yeah. So the show is called The Lineup. It's on Friday nights and Saturday mornings on Bloomberg Television and it essentially just at sports bets historically what has paid off for different leagues, but then also just the business of betting, because it is huge and this is why you're seeing ESPN having a growing interest. When you look at the handle, which is the total dollar amounts that spent on sports wagers in the US, it could reach a hundred billion dollars this year because you've had legalization. Now it's getting legalized in more and more states, and it's just this incredible boom and a lot of people are looking to take advantage of it. And we thought that was something worthy of digging into more. And we haven't even gotten into betting the way other cultures. Yeah. I mean, if you grew up in the UK, you understand spread betting by the time you entered school. Well, they have sixty years of history on their side. It's it's relatively new here in the US exactly. So so what is this going to Farrell walked by, He's like, yep, that's Barrel knows how to do it. Uh, what does this mean for for ESPN, for Disney? I mean, are we going to be able to place bets on ESPN dot Com. No. I don't think that's what they're trying to do here, Matt. I think it's really what what they want to do is license their name out to a sports book. They're not looking to actually create a sports book per se, because there's just too many operational, too many regulatory headaches associated with that. Rather, I think what they're looking to do, and this has kind of been in the news now for almost a year. I think they've been looking to partner with some of the sports book operators their Draft Kings, of course in the news today. Um just kind of licensing out their name and probably integrating um, you know, odds data with the ESPN broadcast. Basically kind of a win win for both because it widens the audience for both the Draft Kings as well as for ESPN. So, you know, Gith, I guess you know, the media companies, they're you know, obviously always looking for new revenue streams, whether it's advertising from some of these sports books or doing you know, a deal actually getting you know, in bed if you will, with with the DraftKings in this particular example, how the media companies kind of changed their view of just kind of sports betting because boy, for the longest time it was taboo. Oh absolutely, Pole, You're absolutely right about that. I mean, it kind of goes against the grain a little bit of you know, Disney's you know, family friendly ethos if you will. But they do realize that they're leaving money on the table here. So if you just kind of look at some of the financials for ESPN, ESPN will bring in about thirteen and a half billion dollars in revenue for the for the Walt Disney Company about four point q billion by our calculations of EBITDA. That's going to be about of the pair and companies, so a pretty sizable number. The problem though, is that ESPN is losing subscribers just like the left the rest of the cable network ecosystem, and we actually estimate that they're even down, maybe down by about so they have to come up. So there are two things here. They have to come up with new cost cutting incentives, and they've done that, so they let go of the Big ten rights. For instance, they let go of I P. L. Cricket rights in India, but they also have to look to grow their revenue and that's exactly what this is about, monetizing their audiences, trying to find new streams of revenue. As you pointed out, so um kylie, when you're anchoring the lineup, what do you uh with with Damian Sassaur too, who is a maniac on this stuff. He is so knowledgeable on this whole sports betting thing. I mean, you get him started, he can't stop. But how deep does it go? It's not just about betting if like the Cowboys win against the Giants, right, I mean, it's so much more complex than that. Yeah, I mean you can get really granular with these things. There are simple money line bets where you're just betting on who's going to win and who's going to lose. And we have troves and troves of historical data from our partners sport Radar that help us analyze historically when you look over the course of say ten seasons, when usually those bets will pay off. But you can bet on anything. You can bet on what color the gator rate is going to be when it gets dumped on the coach ahead at the end of the game. I mean it gets, it gets super super granular, and it's the barrier to entry right now is really low. You can do this on mobile. You can do it basically anywhere except for the states were legal. But regulation is changing. Is it still changing or have we gotten to a point where we think it's we understand it well. It is now legal in a number of states, really the only big ones that haven't come online yet or Texas in California, but you can do it here in New York. Um. And so it definitely is still a nascent industry and that this only has been legal for several number of years, and obviously it will evolve. But just the fact that you can do it and people are taking advantage of doing it and you're seeing the growth is kind of kind of the point here. And what we're trying to see z on and so we we've got you know, ESPN, you know, kind of dipping its toe into this business, maybe even more than dipping it. Still. How about some of the other networks, whether it's Fox or CBS or NBC. Have you seen any moves on their part? Yeah, actually they all have some stake. Um, you know, in a bedding platform. So Fox actually has been really aggressive I think on on this front. They have a deal with a flutter um and uh you know which owns fan Duel here in the US, UM and they have all they all they have almost a four percent stake, but they're right now actually in arbituation because UM about how to kind of exercise their options there. So that's a little bit you know, we don't know exactly how that's going to stay out. But all of these media companies they know that, UM, you know this is there is a huge growth opportunity here. You know, NBC, UM has you know again um uh an agreement with points that sort of CBS. They all have these small agreements, but remember there are some regular regulatory issues, so they can't cross like a five percent stake because that's when they kind of trigger that uh that regulation. UM. But definitely everybody is kind of trying to find new ways of monetizing their audiences and their broadcast. So one of the biggest obviously DraftKings is huge flutter You just mentioned fan Duel. We all know about UM. What are the other big betting companies up there and are they are all or the most part based in London for you. Yeah, I mean there there are a number and you are seeing some consolidation as well, where UK based companies are starting to make oppositions here in the US to capitalize on the fact that you now have a growing US market for this as well. So there's a ton of sports books out there. Obviously, DraftKings, FanDuel are among the big ones that you will see every day. But you're probably going to see more pop up because this is something including Disney in the ESPN, everybody's looking at exactly all right, Kaylee Lines, thank you so much. Katie Line's anchor for Bloomberg News, joinings here on a Bloomberg Interactive Brook which on the show again seven pm and eleven pm Saturday, Friday night and Friday night, seven am and eleven am Saturday morning. Oh, seven pmm pm tonight, seven am and eleven am Tomorrow morning. Very good. And Ethan Rockhan she's Bloomberg Intelligence. She covers all things media for Bloomberg Intelligence. Now's that really feeling to paying here today? Off two and a half percent here, it's got a sense of what's going on with technology. We're gonna focus a little bit on Amazon as well. And we can do that because we've got some really smart people at Bloomberg, including Bloomberg News Equity supporter Jess Met and she joins us here in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio and put him Goyle Senior analystics she covers all the retailing stuff for Bloomberg Intelligence, and then you can imagine spends a lot of time on that thing called Amazon, just because give us a sense kind of what we're seeing out there. For for tech stocks, we really comes down to what we're seeing in the pain in chip stocks. And right now we're coming into today the Philadelphia Semiconductor Index, which has plunged this year, had actually been up nearly nine percent for the week, but with today's losses, it's basically cut those gains in half. And really what's happened is once Samsung reported basically it's first profit drops since twenty nineteen, it really just just showing the depth of the global PC and memory chip downturn and also advanced micro devices. They had a preliminary third quarter sales that basically missed projects by more than one billion dollars, and so that's really weighing on chip stocks, and like I mentioned already down when you're looking at the Philadelphia semi Conductor index this year, which would be the most since two thousand eight, and just looking more broadly, if you're looking at a video ticker symbol n v d A down about five percent today. Also looking over at micro not down quite as much, but ticker symbol M you that's stock down about two percent. But still even if that's UM index does continue to post games this week, that would snap three straight weeks of losses. But if you pull it back over the past two months, that index is only close higher for two weeks in the past eight weeks, so really showing the pain there that's happening in chip stocks. It also this highlights how little I know about the micro chip industry because you know they go in your cars. Though, yeah, my truck stood on the lot with tho others for months because they couldn't find the right chips to like control lane, keep assist. And yet they're made. They've made way too many chips for PCs, so these things are not fungible, right, So you went from a chip shortage to now a chip glut. But still in cars there's a chip shortage, so still there's an automotive chip shortage. They can't get enough of them. Rivan especially is having problems. Tesla had problems to Obviously the incumbent players are still grappling with the issues. And yet I can't think of PC makers but a sir, I guess has gotten way too many. The chip makers should have sent most of them over to Tesla and held back the ones that they were making for IBM. And they've also still been dealing with those rising prices. And obviously weaker economies has heard consumption and they're also obviously also not helped by the Federal Reserve and other central banks really having this aggressive stance on their monetary policy. But then another factor is when it comes to the dynamic between Washington and Beijing and the export restrictions on China, which obviously is a top consumer of chips. Interesting enough, though Morgan Stanley had not necessarily called the bottom and chip stocks, but thinks that we're getting closer. They were looking more when looking basically at the price to earnings ratio. So the Philadelphia Index is priced at fourteen a half times earnings right now, and that's eleven percent discount to its average multiple around sixteen for the past decades, so they're keeping a close eye on that, but still those corner of the market today really feeling the pain. And when put Um Goyle, Bloomberg's intelligence retail anild started her coverage of the retail space years ago at Goldman Sachs, a little firm downtown, she never thought she'd be talking technology, but then this whole thing called e commerce came along and she has been becoming an astute technology analyst as well. So put them when you think about your industry, what Amazon has done to the retail industry, this whole e commerce thing has really become front and center. What's the status of e commerce in the retail space? Yeah, e commerce is still front and center. You know, there's been a lot of discussion about e commerce flowing, and yes, coming off of pandemic level, there will be some slow to out, but let that not be mistaken for the growth that's still ahead for e commerce. E Commerce is still very under penetrated in the US. Why not even at a third of US retail sales coming from e commerce, which we think we'll get there in just a matter of three years. So right now we're about a quarter of total retail sales are from the e commerce world, but that number is steadily increasing, and you know, this year maybe a little slower given the tougher comparisons, but next year and going forward, we do expect e commerce to return to healthy, high single digit double EDGIT games. I've been uh, the pandemic has transformed the way my family shops, and I'm sure that's the case for most families in America. I get now far more goods on Amazon than I ever had um in the pre pandemic years combined. UM and I've been waiting for a drone or a robot to drop off one of my packages. Is it never going to happen to them? I wouldn't say never, but I don't think you'll happen in the next you years. I think you know, as you know, they've been testing the drone concept for years now, and the hawks that they've placed on the scout just goes to show that either it's not economical, either it's not fast enough, or it's just not being received well by customers. Yet. Maybe the customer isn't ready for a drone to pull up into their driveway, navigate around their cards, find the door, and drop things off, right. I don't know if we have that sophistication, I would I promised to double my purchases of Amazon delivers my stuff with a robot, because that would be awesome. Alright, So just just real quickly here, when you think about the text SOX, is it all just the FED and where rates are going? I mean, that obviously is a big part of that, just because when you're thinking about the direction of interest rates and how that incorporates to their future profits and obviously in turn their stock prices, that is a big thing. But also, like I was mentioned before, the recent tensions between the US and China that could actually worsen the imbalance when you're looking at what's happening with supply into me and so part of it is the fat and then part of it is also issues going on with just geopolitics and again stem conductor stocks. They're the most cyclical part of technology because of the boom and bus nature of chip demand. All right, Jess Manton, thank you so much. We appreciate that. Jeff Matt and Bloomberg News equities reporter and put him Coyle senior analyst. She covers to US retailing with Bloomberg Intelligence, and she covers Amazon, so that means she is all over the technology that is transforming retail. And maybe someday a drone will deliver a package to Matt Miller's house. So no, but no day soon because Amazon has canceled their project for cost cutting reasons lately. Really yeah, that's that's the whole story. There were slow moving cooler sized scout that they've been testing since nineteen is suspending at a million trucks on the road so they can get it done well. President Biden's pardoning of all people convicted of simple marijuana possession under federal law marks a significant shift of the president's stance on cannabis. And it's got kindable stocks definitely moving here. It's Jackomen Jason Wilson. He's a cannabis research and banking expert for et F Managers Group. And Jason, before we get start, I just want to point off our audience that you are a member of the Canadian were a member of the Canadian Forces, and you were recipient of the Gulf of Kuwait Metal awarded for your engagement in direct combat during the Gulf War of nineteen nine. You want to remember remember that well. So, Jason, first of all, thanks for your service here. Um, we appreciate you taking the time to join us. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. You bet. Is this a major shift for the Biden administration? Do you think, I mean, the stocks are kind of suggesting it is. How do you guys think about that? Yeah, I mean, it's it's it's definitely a shift. I mean, notwithstanding the campaign promises regarding you know, canvas reform Biden made in twenty we really didn't see anything from him and and not you know, there's been lots of movement in Congress obviously, uh, primarily in the House, but also in the Senate, and and you know, so to have this affirmation from Biden, it's it's it's really uplifting. Um. So it's it's, you know, again, affirmation that if we can get something through Congress, we can see some real progress exactly. I mean a lot of things here need to change. I don't know, a lot of people realize that that weed is a Schedule one drug. I mean, that's the worst kind of drug in terms of the way the federal government rates these things, meaning it has a high potential for addiction. And there's no currently accepted medical use. As you move on down the list schedule too, you get things like you know, morphine and dem roll Schedule three, you get like steroids and ketamine special K Schedule four like xan x and probably the most abused drugs in America, right, I mean, why is why is this plant a Schedule one drug? Is that going to change? You know, it's definitely going to change. There seems to be no question. In fact. You know, obviously having the the the executive action on on the Federal Party is incredible news. But also in that release was the fact that he's instructed President Biden's instructed the Attorney General and the Secretary of um uh, you know, of of Health and Human Services to actually look at reclassification because you know, even even President Biden said it all that's just made no sense. It's a failed system. The laws are wrong, the federal it's just not working, and we need to look at at least reclassification. Yeah. Um, we also have a Safe Banking Act, um that legislation that that needs to get passed here. Um you advise m J. That's the alternative harvest e T F and and other e T s I believe in terms of how to deal with the regulation. Are we going to see safe banking pass? Because without that, it's very difficult for these companies with you know, uh millions or even billions in revenue to to move around the financial system. Yeah, there's definitely bipartisan support for no question. I mean that the divide hasn't been whether or not we should have cannabis reform. That the divide has been to what extent? How far do we go? And and you know, um, if you look at Shumor's bill at the c I o A, it's just so it's been so far reaching, and there's to date been really not a willingness to compromise on on on more incremental reform. But you know that's changed in the last few weeks or a few months, and there there is more expectation that there will be compromised and we'll actually see something more along the lines of safe banking plus. And then when you obviously, when you add the the president's actions yesterday, it's it's gonna add a little bit more fuel to fire that what we will actually see progress on that front. Jason, what's been the experience of Canada and and and their laws and kind of how they deal with it. Yeah, it's been it's been positive. I mean, at the end of the day, there's there's always this. It takes time to to move from the illicit market to the legal market. Um, but you know it's it's the industry is growing. Quarter after quarter. We continue to increase sales the quarter after quarter, we continue to take away from the illicit market. You know, we haven't seen the evils that many predicted. Uh. And you know, the biggest thing we're dealing with right now in Canada, and you were talking about this about other drugs and where they where they sit on the c s A. The biggest issues we're dealing with right now are you know, the opioid overdoses, ventanyl addictions, things of that nature. Like that's that's the issue. And you know we're seeing that that cannabis is a means to get off of those, not a gateway to those. Yeah. Ventanyl. Yeah, that's bad, bad stuff, horrible, right it is. I mean if heroin doesn't do it for you, then you move to fentyl. That's right, that's that's a very bad problem. But I mean people should notice stay away from that stuff. All right, Jason, thank you so much for joining us. Jason Wilson, he's cannabis research and banking expert for the E t F Managers Group. And again, they're definitely some movement there yesterday from President Biden's partnering of all people convicative simple marijuana possession under federal law. That marks a significant shift in the President's recent stance on cannabis. So a lot of folks in the cannabis business are, you know, hoping that perhaps this could be a catalyst for more sweeping deregulation at the federal level. This is the Big Take, the best of Bloomberg's in depth, original reporting from around the globe. This is a really fast moving story that's caused a lot of outrage among investors. This is so fascinating. The market shutdown in a way it's never done before. That's gonna have consequences for years to come. The Big Take on Bloomberg Radio. All Right, you know how much Matt and I love these Big Take stories from Bloomberg News because they're a the topics are usually really really cool, uh, and then they dig deep and they you can just tell they throw the resources at it. We get some really in depth, deep reporting on some really cool topics today. Boy, no different. Steve Cohen's new edge is bringing hedge fund moneyball to the Mets. And the Mets are actually in the playoffs this year, uh in you know, and probably the first one. No, I think they've been. They've been in the team. Okay, yeah. So anyway, so what we've got here is we've got Kathy Burton, she's a reporter on this story for Bloomberg News. Tom Maloney, editor with Bloomberg News. They both joined us in the Bloomberg Interactive Broker Studio the B and people do not phone it in, Matt. They're actually in here getting the job done over there. This is pretty empty. Kathy, Steve Cohen, I know him as the hedge fund uh Titan on Wall Street from my days on the street. Uh, but he's also the owner of the Mets. Here talked to us about Steve Cohen, what he's done with this franchise. Well, basically, Steve has thrown a lot of his billions of dollars at the team and that's what's made the difference this year. So but he's but he's been a fan. So was when they were in the World Series, not the playoffs. But he's been a fan since then, right, I mean since he was a little kid. Yeah. So I think this is so cool because in our financial bubble, uh Tom, where we only care about you know, business news, we know Steve Cohen as the big hedge fund guy who maybe used too much of an edge, right and got into legal trouble. He's kind of a bad guy because he pushed the limits a little bit too much, but obviously everyone was pushing the limits. He got caught. UM in baseball. You know, Baseball fans don't think of him that way, right. They think of this guy, especially if you're a Mets fan, as somebody with a lot of money who came in um to help for them make their franchise a winner. They probably love him absolutely, and I think that's you know, that's what he says was the primary reason why he bought the Mets was to try to bring joy to millions of people. Um. But it's it's certainly he you know, people Mets fans, they love him. At the baseball owners maybe not so much because he's spending you know, fortune. He's got the highest payroll in the league right now, and it's taken the Mets to the postseason for the first time. So Cathy talked to us about, like, do you think Steve Cohen is actually trying to kind of revamp his reputation? Is was his legacy, if you will, by the ownership of such a you know, a marquee franchise. I don't actually partly because Steve. You know, Steve was never um charged with with wrongdoing. His firm paid a fine, a record fine, UM. But I think he really did do it for the reasons that Tom just said. But but it has been a benefit of all this that people don't um think of him anymore because of the record find he paid. UM. Tom found a really cool stat that showed that UM, since he owned the Mets, there were twenty three mentions of Steve Cohen with insider trading and more than two thousand as owner of the Yeah, if that's his goal. But he's this seems like a guy who's going to be competitive in whatever realm. I mean, if you put him on the squash court, he's gonna throw an elbow. If you put him in hedge funds, he's going to try and use whatever edge he can. And if you put him in baseball. He's going to spend as much as he can to win, right, Is that how you frame him? Yeah? Absolutely, And I think when we talk about the reasons why he bought it, I mean, yeah, he wants to bring joy, but I think he's a competitive guy and he wants to win, and I think he enjoys it and he likes learning about something new. You know. He talked to We spoke to Billy Eppla, the general manager, and he talked about how involved you know, not necessarily interfering or anything like that, but the Cohen asked smart questions and he likes to learn and he likes to quiz him and figure things out. And I think that's a big reason why he bought it as well, was like a new challenge of this, is there any kind of you know, Moneyball was the last great baseball story. Michael Lewis wrote the book and then um Brad Pitt and Jonah Hill were awesome in the movie, but that they were cash strapped, right, Um, it seems like Steve Cohen would use that kind of mathematical analysis. He has always been a baseball fan, and then he was a Wall Street guy. They're all like that. Um, but he has the money to spend, so does he do like kind of a moneyball on steroids for lack of a better term. Um, it's kind of funny that they do lend a few people to the organization, to to the Mets to do some sort of to do some sort of projects to bring them basically up to speed, because the Wilpons never invested in that sort of quantitative analysis. But interestingly, they're not trying to be the quantiest team really league. Yeah, I think they're they're doing sort of man plus machine. Interesting, Tom, Do we have any sense of what Steve Cohen's kind of how he allocates his time these days between his point seventy two hedge fun between the Mets and maybe whatever whatever else he's doing, because it seems like philanthropy. He's not a collector. I mean, he's still trading every day. What do we know about it? He says, he's still trading every day. He still runs a book, his own book at point seventy two, but it's a lot smaller than it used to be. He's only trading during us hours. He's not you know, sitting there worrying about what's going on. In London, what's going on in Asia overnight? So his work day is shorter than it used to be. It's interesting, point seventy two manages more money than it's ever managed before. Um so the firm's grown, but it's kind of gotten more institutionalized, and he's not making all the decisions anymore. And I think after hours he's he's focused shifts to baseball. He's you know, he speaks to Billy Eppler at least once a week, while on once a week, and then every time there's any kind of transaction guys going up to the majors, going down in the minor leagues or whatever, you know, he's consulted on that. And so I think, you know, there's a he's got more stuff going on than just trading seven, which I think is what his life used to be. Does he talk to all of the players, Cathy? Does he say, hey, do you even know how to play this? No? I don't think he talks to the players that much. I mean, he definitely talks to the general manager a bit. Yeah, But I saw him, like you know, down at the Braves last weekend. He they had a new player coming up, Alvarez and he was like, you know, giving him some words of encouragement, saying don't stress about it. I think he likes that element of as well for sure. All Right, great stuff the Big Take story. Matt and I are big fans of the Big Take, and this one was a great one. Stevie Cohen and the match take a read. You can find out Bloomberg dot com slash Big Take, or you can also do it and I Big Take and I Big Take on the terminal. On the terminal, we appreciate that. Uh. Kathy Burton, hedge fund reporter Bloomberg News and Tom Maloney, editor with Bloomberg News. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can subscribe and listen to interviews with Apple Podcasts or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter at Matt Miller three. On False Sweeney, I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney. Before the podcast, you can always catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio

Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, alongside my co host Matt Miller. Every business day we bring you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. Well, the most read story, has Matt Miller pointed out to me, is from our good friends in Zirch, Credit Swiss Group. Are there, then, sir, not Geneva? Right, that's where the base Yeah, they're both in Zurich. Okay, alright. Credit Swiss Group offered to buy back up the three billion dollars of its own debt and a move aimed to coming investor Jitters ahead of the unveiling of a crucial strategy revamp later this month. Let's bring in Allison Williams. She's our senior banks analyst of Bloomberg Intelligence. She's been coming the banking industry on a global basis for decades. So, Alison, what does this mean to you? What does this mean for I guess equity investors, for creditors here for Credit Swiss, I think like like a lot of things that have happened over the past week, it's it's sort of more symbolic than anything else. It is a way for them to come out and say that, you know, we have ample liquidity in a way that people will believe if you will so as we know, um, over many years, when banks come out and say they don't need capital, they have liquidity, it ends up sometimes having the opposite effect, which is actually what we saw earlier this week in an effort to calm things. It didn't And by coming out today and doing this offer, they're showing that they do have you know, they do have ample liquidity, that's not the issue, and you are seeing the intended effect, which is some studying in the stock and bonds in fact on a very red screen today. Um, the stock is up it it was doing better earlier in the day. Is there is there an actual playbook like did John cry and have a leather bound book that he handed over to the leadership at Credit Squeeze because Deutsche Bank did the exact same thing. Um, right when right when they're uh, you know when when there was a concern about liquidity of the German bank, Well, and I think it is UM. You know, I think it is a tactical move UM to study things. I do think that the situations are are a little bit different in the sense that UM, you know, credit sweet perhaps as a little bit a little bit more to build on if you look at their some of their higher returning businesses, UM, whereas UH Deutsche Bank, I think, you know, their their portfolio is under what was under a lot more pressure, and you know, after three years of restructuring, I think they're finally coming out of it, which is a positive UM. But both banks. The similarity is when you come out and we've been talking about this this week, when you come out and say we're gonna come out with a plan it's going to be in several weeks and UM without saying it investors knowing that that might include a capital raise. It's it's uncertainty and it's sort of UM obviously can can recap it in a tough market. And so I think also having this news come out on a Friday, UM, you know, we'll make for a much less stressful and must less uncertain weekend. Hopefully UM that when we saw last weekend when there were a lot of stories and a lot of posts going around and they come out in uh, you know, two weeks and say we need to raise five billion dollars after they just blew three billion dollars on their own debt. Well again, I think that to the extent, you know, the issue with credit sueets right now is the bargaining position that they're in in terms of, uh, you know, the price that they're going to pay if you will to issue that capital right so as the stacko's lower gets less attractive, and also negotiations that they might be having with a potential buyers or investors UM the investment bank to securitized product group UM is something that they would like to get external capital. It seems like that makes the most sense if they can get a good price. The markets are obviously UM putting them in a bad position. I think if they can study things and sort of improve their negotiating position and give themselves the couple of weeks that they need to really put together a solid plan, because if they're going to come out and raise capital, you know, they're they're going to want a credible plan to offer to investors who are going to give them that capital. Alison, is there any appetite at all within the Swiss government to maybe permit ubs and credit Swiss to ever merge. I believe that's unlikely. Um. You know, we've always said, you know, not impossible, but very unlikely. If you think about ubs and credit suits and the size of those banks in particular related to the Swiss economy U. Um, it's really outside versus some of the bigger banks we have here. So we have much bigger banks, but we also have a much bigger economy, and for that reason, the Swiss regulators have sort of bigger capital requirements for these banks, um. Because the two each on their own are so significant to the economy. So I think it would be tougher um to think about, you know, the pair together. To the extent though that credit Sweeze is going to reduce its bounce sheet, reduce some of these investment backing activities, perhaps that does clear something clear the way for something down the road. Um. But again I guess we'll have to see what the new credit sweeze is going to look like. Where's the where's the office down town? Where's the New York office? Madisone levin Madison Avenue? Fantastic building? Is it? A big restaurant right there. We used to go there, like you know, when it just opened, it wasn't anything, so we'd go down there to scrap dinner after work. And now you it's again one of the top restaurants around period. So I don't know. They have a great New York City office. Credit Swiss. First Boston is a great place to work for me, a good memories. But I have to admit, and I've spoken to Allison a lot about this, it just seems like every two or three or four years they blow themselves up, and that goes back thirty years as far as I can recall, Allison Williams, thanks so much for joining us. Allison covers all the big banks for Bloomberg Intelligence. She's based in our Princeton office, and she's been doing that for decades. Before she was at Bloomberg in Tellgent, she was at Morgan Stanley Investment Management the by side, and they owned huge steaks in all of the big financial institutions across the world, and Allison was the analyst supporting all that stuff. So we appreciate getting her thoughts here. Credit Swiss. Trying to steady the ship. Gonna have a new strategy coming out later this month, and we'll be covering that as well. All Right, sports gambling, sports betting in sport, it is just a huge business. You know, it's a real business. When Bloomberg actually has a TV show, Bloomberg Television talking about the business of sports betting, and it is in the news this week again, ESPN is said to be near a large partnership with Draft Kings. Uh, that's getting a lot of interest. We want to talk about that. We're gonna be with Kaylee Lines. She is a Bloomberg Television anchor for us and joining us and she's here in our Bloomberg interactor Brooker studio. Joining us on the phone is Keith Rung and Athan. She covers all things media and against her better judgment, she has had to learn about the gambling business and the gaming business because of Mickey Mouse is getting into it. You've gotta pay attention, Kaylee. That's the crazy part, right part is getting into an addictive vice that Bruin's families exactly and go figure, that's how the world's changed. So Kaylee, let's start there. Talk to us about the sports betting business. First of all, talk to us about that and it talks about how your show addresses it. Yeah. So the show is called The Lineup. It's on Friday nights and Saturday mornings on Bloomberg Television and it essentially just at sports bets historically what has paid off for different leagues, but then also just the business of betting, because it is huge and this is why you're seeing ESPN having a growing interest. When you look at the handle, which is the total dollar amounts that spent on sports wagers in the US, it could reach a hundred billion dollars this year because you've had legalization. Now it's getting legalized in more and more states, and it's just this incredible boom and a lot of people are looking to take advantage of it. And we thought that was something worthy of digging into more. And we haven't even gotten into betting the way other cultures. Yeah. I mean, if you grew up in the UK, you understand spread betting by the time you entered school. Well, they have sixty years of history on their side. It's it's relatively new here in the US exactly. So so what is this going to Farrell walked by, He's like, yep, that's Barrel knows how to do it. Uh, what does this mean for for ESPN, for Disney? I mean, are we going to be able to place bets on ESPN dot Com. No. I don't think that's what they're trying to do here, Matt. I think it's really what what they want to do is license their name out to a sports book. They're not looking to actually create a sports book per se, because there's just too many operational, too many regulatory headaches associated with that. Rather, I think what they're looking to do, and this has kind of been in the news now for almost a year. I think they've been looking to partner with some of the sports book operators their Draft Kings, of course in the news today. Um just kind of licensing out their name and probably integrating um, you know, odds data with the ESPN broadcast. Basically kind of a win win for both because it widens the audience for both the Draft Kings as well as for ESPN. So, you know, Gith, I guess you know, the media companies, they're you know, obviously always looking for new revenue streams, whether it's advertising from some of these sports books or doing you know, a deal actually getting you know, in bed if you will, with with the DraftKings in this particular example, how the media companies kind of changed their view of just kind of sports betting because boy, for the longest time it was taboo. Oh absolutely, Pole, You're absolutely right about that. I mean, it kind of goes against the grain a little bit of you know, Disney's you know, family friendly ethos if you will. But they do realize that they're leaving money on the table here. So if you just kind of look at some of the financials for ESPN, ESPN will bring in about thirteen and a half billion dollars in revenue for the for the Walt Disney Company about four point q billion by our calculations of EBITDA. That's going to be about of the pair and companies, so a pretty sizable number. The problem though, is that ESPN is losing subscribers just like the left the rest of the cable network ecosystem, and we actually estimate that they're even down, maybe down by about so they have to come up. So there are two things here. They have to come up with new cost cutting incentives, and they've done that, so they let go of the Big ten rights. For instance, they let go of I P. L. Cricket rights in India, but they also have to look to grow their revenue and that's exactly what this is about, monetizing their audiences, trying to find new streams of revenue. As you pointed out, so um kylie, when you're anchoring the lineup, what do you uh with with Damian Sassaur too, who is a maniac on this stuff. He is so knowledgeable on this whole sports betting thing. I mean, you get him started, he can't stop. But how deep does it go? It's not just about betting if like the Cowboys win against the Giants, right, I mean, it's so much more complex than that. Yeah, I mean you can get really granular with these things. There are simple money line bets where you're just betting on who's going to win and who's going to lose. And we have troves and troves of historical data from our partners sport Radar that help us analyze historically when you look over the course of say ten seasons, when usually those bets will pay off. But you can bet on anything. You can bet on what color the gator rate is going to be when it gets dumped on the coach ahead at the end of the game. I mean it gets, it gets super super granular, and it's the barrier to entry right now is really low. You can do this on mobile. You can do it basically anywhere except for the states were legal. But regulation is changing. Is it still changing or have we gotten to a point where we think it's we understand it well. It is now legal in a number of states, really the only big ones that haven't come online yet or Texas in California, but you can do it here in New York. Um. And so it definitely is still a nascent industry and that this only has been legal for several number of years, and obviously it will evolve. But just the fact that you can do it and people are taking advantage of doing it and you're seeing the growth is kind of kind of the point here. And what we're trying to see z on and so we we've got you know, ESPN, you know, kind of dipping its toe into this business, maybe even more than dipping it. Still. How about some of the other networks, whether it's Fox or CBS or NBC. Have you seen any moves on their part? Yeah, actually they all have some stake. Um, you know, in a bedding platform. So Fox actually has been really aggressive I think on on this front. They have a deal with a flutter um and uh you know which owns fan Duel here in the US, UM and they have all they all they have almost a four percent stake, but they're right now actually in arbituation because UM about how to kind of exercise their options there. So that's a little bit you know, we don't know exactly how that's going to stay out. But all of these media companies they know that, UM, you know this is there is a huge growth opportunity here. You know, NBC, UM has you know again um uh an agreement with points that sort of CBS. They all have these small agreements, but remember there are some regular regulatory issues, so they can't cross like a five percent stake because that's when they kind of trigger that uh that regulation. UM. But definitely everybody is kind of trying to find new ways of monetizing their audiences and their broadcast. So one of the biggest obviously DraftKings is huge flutter You just mentioned fan Duel. We all know about UM. What are the other big betting companies up there and are they are all or the most part based in London for you. Yeah, I mean there there are a number and you are seeing some consolidation as well, where UK based companies are starting to make oppositions here in the US to capitalize on the fact that you now have a growing US market for this as well. So there's a ton of sports books out there. Obviously, DraftKings, FanDuel are among the big ones that you will see every day. But you're probably going to see more pop up because this is something including Disney in the ESPN, everybody's looking at exactly all right, Kaylee Lines, thank you so much. Katie Line's anchor for Bloomberg News, joinings here on a Bloomberg Interactive Brook which on the show again seven pm and eleven pm Saturday, Friday night and Friday night, seven am and eleven am Saturday morning. Oh, seven pmm pm tonight, seven am and eleven am Tomorrow morning. Very good. And Ethan Rockhan she's Bloomberg Intelligence. She covers all things media for Bloomberg Intelligence. Now's that really feeling to paying here today? Off two and a half percent here, it's got a sense of what's going on with technology. We're gonna focus a little bit on Amazon as well. And we can do that because we've got some really smart people at Bloomberg, including Bloomberg News Equity supporter Jess Met and she joins us here in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio and put him Goyle Senior analystics she covers all the retailing stuff for Bloomberg Intelligence, and then you can imagine spends a lot of time on that thing called Amazon, just because give us a sense kind of what we're seeing out there. For for tech stocks, we really comes down to what we're seeing in the pain in chip stocks. And right now we're coming into today the Philadelphia Semiconductor Index, which has plunged this year, had actually been up nearly nine percent for the week, but with today's losses, it's basically cut those gains in half. And really what's happened is once Samsung reported basically it's first profit drops since twenty nineteen, it really just just showing the depth of the global PC and memory chip downturn and also advanced micro devices. They had a preliminary third quarter sales that basically missed projects by more than one billion dollars, and so that's really weighing on chip stocks, and like I mentioned already down when you're looking at the Philadelphia semi Conductor index this year, which would be the most since two thousand eight, and just looking more broadly, if you're looking at a video ticker symbol n v d A down about five percent today. Also looking over at micro not down quite as much, but ticker symbol M you that's stock down about two percent. But still even if that's UM index does continue to post games this week, that would snap three straight weeks of losses. But if you pull it back over the past two months, that index is only close higher for two weeks in the past eight weeks, so really showing the pain there that's happening in chip stocks. It also this highlights how little I know about the micro chip industry because you know they go in your cars. Though, yeah, my truck stood on the lot with tho others for months because they couldn't find the right chips to like control lane, keep assist. And yet they're made. They've made way too many chips for PCs, so these things are not fungible, right, So you went from a chip shortage to now a chip glut. But still in cars there's a chip shortage, so still there's an automotive chip shortage. They can't get enough of them. Rivan especially is having problems. Tesla had problems to Obviously the incumbent players are still grappling with the issues. And yet I can't think of PC makers but a sir, I guess has gotten way too many. The chip makers should have sent most of them over to Tesla and held back the ones that they were making for IBM. And they've also still been dealing with those rising prices. And obviously weaker economies has heard consumption and they're also obviously also not helped by the Federal Reserve and other central banks really having this aggressive stance on their monetary policy. But then another factor is when it comes to the dynamic between Washington and Beijing and the export restrictions on China, which obviously is a top consumer of chips. Interesting enough, though Morgan Stanley had not necessarily called the bottom and chip stocks, but thinks that we're getting closer. They were looking more when looking basically at the price to earnings ratio. So the Philadelphia Index is priced at fourteen a half times earnings right now, and that's eleven percent discount to its average multiple around sixteen for the past decades, so they're keeping a close eye on that, but still those corner of the market today really feeling the pain. And when put Um Goyle, Bloomberg's intelligence retail anild started her coverage of the retail space years ago at Goldman Sachs, a little firm downtown, she never thought she'd be talking technology, but then this whole thing called e commerce came along and she has been becoming an astute technology analyst as well. So put them when you think about your industry, what Amazon has done to the retail industry, this whole e commerce thing has really become front and center. What's the status of e commerce in the retail space? Yeah, e commerce is still front and center. You know, there's been a lot of discussion about e commerce flowing, and yes, coming off of pandemic level, there will be some slow to out, but let that not be mistaken for the growth that's still ahead for e commerce. E Commerce is still very under penetrated in the US. Why not even at a third of US retail sales coming from e commerce, which we think we'll get there in just a matter of three years. So right now we're about a quarter of total retail sales are from the e commerce world, but that number is steadily increasing, and you know, this year maybe a little slower given the tougher comparisons, but next year and going forward, we do expect e commerce to return to healthy, high single digit double EDGIT games. I've been uh, the pandemic has transformed the way my family shops, and I'm sure that's the case for most families in America. I get now far more goods on Amazon than I ever had um in the pre pandemic years combined. UM and I've been waiting for a drone or a robot to drop off one of my packages. Is it never going to happen to them? I wouldn't say never, but I don't think you'll happen in the next you years. I think you know, as you know, they've been testing the drone concept for years now, and the hawks that they've placed on the scout just goes to show that either it's not economical, either it's not fast enough, or it's just not being received well by customers. Yet. Maybe the customer isn't ready for a drone to pull up into their driveway, navigate around their cards, find the door, and drop things off, right. I don't know if we have that sophistication, I would I promised to double my purchases of Amazon delivers my stuff with a robot, because that would be awesome. Alright, So just just real quickly here, when you think about the text SOX, is it all just the FED and where rates are going? I mean, that obviously is a big part of that, just because when you're thinking about the direction of interest rates and how that incorporates to their future profits and obviously in turn their stock prices, that is a big thing. But also, like I was mentioned before, the recent tensions between the US and China that could actually worsen the imbalance when you're looking at what's happening with supply into me and so part of it is the fat and then part of it is also issues going on with just geopolitics and again stem conductor stocks. They're the most cyclical part of technology because of the boom and bus nature of chip demand. All right, Jess Manton, thank you so much. We appreciate that. Jeff Matt and Bloomberg News equities reporter and put him Coyle senior analyst. She covers to US retailing with Bloomberg Intelligence, and she covers Amazon, so that means she is all over the technology that is transforming retail. And maybe someday a drone will deliver a package to Matt Miller's house. So no, but no day soon because Amazon has canceled their project for cost cutting reasons lately. Really yeah, that's that's the whole story. There were slow moving cooler sized scout that they've been testing since nineteen is suspending at a million trucks on the road so they can get it done well. President Biden's pardoning of all people convicted of simple marijuana possession under federal law marks a significant shift of the president's stance on cannabis. And it's got kindable stocks definitely moving here. It's Jackomen Jason Wilson. He's a cannabis research and banking expert for et F Managers Group. And Jason, before we get start, I just want to point off our audience that you are a member of the Canadian were a member of the Canadian Forces, and you were recipient of the Gulf of Kuwait Metal awarded for your engagement in direct combat during the Gulf War of nineteen nine. You want to remember remember that well. So, Jason, first of all, thanks for your service here. Um, we appreciate you taking the time to join us. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. You bet. Is this a major shift for the Biden administration? Do you think, I mean, the stocks are kind of suggesting it is. How do you guys think about that? Yeah, I mean, it's it's it's definitely a shift. I mean, notwithstanding the campaign promises regarding you know, canvas reform Biden made in twenty we really didn't see anything from him and and not you know, there's been lots of movement in Congress obviously, uh, primarily in the House, but also in the Senate, and and you know, so to have this affirmation from Biden, it's it's it's really uplifting. Um. So it's it's, you know, again, affirmation that if we can get something through Congress, we can see some real progress exactly. I mean a lot of things here need to change. I don't know, a lot of people realize that that weed is a Schedule one drug. I mean, that's the worst kind of drug in terms of the way the federal government rates these things, meaning it has a high potential for addiction. And there's no currently accepted medical use. As you move on down the list schedule too, you get things like you know, morphine and dem roll Schedule three, you get like steroids and ketamine special K Schedule four like xan x and probably the most abused drugs in America, right, I mean, why is why is this plant a Schedule one drug? Is that going to change? You know, it's definitely going to change. There seems to be no question. In fact. You know, obviously having the the the executive action on on the Federal Party is incredible news. But also in that release was the fact that he's instructed President Biden's instructed the Attorney General and the Secretary of um uh, you know, of of Health and Human Services to actually look at reclassification because you know, even even President Biden said it all that's just made no sense. It's a failed system. The laws are wrong, the federal it's just not working, and we need to look at at least reclassification. Yeah. Um, we also have a Safe Banking Act, um that legislation that that needs to get passed here. Um you advise m J. That's the alternative harvest e T F and and other e T s I believe in terms of how to deal with the regulation. Are we going to see safe banking pass? Because without that, it's very difficult for these companies with you know, uh millions or even billions in revenue to to move around the financial system. Yeah, there's definitely bipartisan support for no question. I mean that the divide hasn't been whether or not we should have cannabis reform. That the divide has been to what extent? How far do we go? And and you know, um, if you look at Shumor's bill at the c I o A, it's just so it's been so far reaching, and there's to date been really not a willingness to compromise on on on more incremental reform. But you know that's changed in the last few weeks or a few months, and there there is more expectation that there will be compromised and we'll actually see something more along the lines of safe banking plus. And then when you obviously, when you add the the president's actions yesterday, it's it's gonna add a little bit more fuel to fire that what we will actually see progress on that front. Jason, what's been the experience of Canada and and and their laws and kind of how they deal with it. Yeah, it's been it's been positive. I mean, at the end of the day, there's there's always this. It takes time to to move from the illicit market to the legal market. Um, but you know it's it's the industry is growing. Quarter after quarter. We continue to increase sales the quarter after quarter, we continue to take away from the illicit market. You know, we haven't seen the evils that many predicted. Uh. And you know, the biggest thing we're dealing with right now in Canada, and you were talking about this about other drugs and where they where they sit on the c s A. The biggest issues we're dealing with right now are you know, the opioid overdoses, ventanyl addictions, things of that nature. Like that's that's the issue. And you know we're seeing that that cannabis is a means to get off of those, not a gateway to those. Yeah. Ventanyl. Yeah, that's bad, bad stuff, horrible, right it is. I mean if heroin doesn't do it for you, then you move to fentyl. That's right, that's that's a very bad problem. But I mean people should notice stay away from that stuff. All right, Jason, thank you so much for joining us. Jason Wilson, he's cannabis research and banking expert for the E t F Managers Group. And again, they're definitely some movement there yesterday from President Biden's partnering of all people convicative simple marijuana possession under federal law. That marks a significant shift in the President's recent stance on cannabis. So a lot of folks in the cannabis business are, you know, hoping that perhaps this could be a catalyst for more sweeping deregulation at the federal level. This is the Big Take, the best of Bloomberg's in depth, original reporting from around the globe. This is a really fast moving story that's caused a lot of outrage among investors. This is so fascinating. The market shutdown in a way it's never done before. That's gonna have consequences for years to come. The Big Take on Bloomberg Radio. All Right, you know how much Matt and I love these Big Take stories from Bloomberg News because they're a the topics are usually really really cool, uh, and then they dig deep and they you can just tell they throw the resources at it. We get some really in depth, deep reporting on some really cool topics today. Boy, no different. Steve Cohen's new edge is bringing hedge fund moneyball to the Mets. And the Mets are actually in the playoffs this year, uh in you know, and probably the first one. No, I think they've been. They've been in the team. Okay, yeah. So anyway, so what we've got here is we've got Kathy Burton, she's a reporter on this story for Bloomberg News. Tom Maloney, editor with Bloomberg News. They both joined us in the Bloomberg Interactive Broker Studio the B and people do not phone it in, Matt. They're actually in here getting the job done over there. This is pretty empty. Kathy, Steve Cohen, I know him as the hedge fund uh Titan on Wall Street from my days on the street. Uh, but he's also the owner of the Mets. Here talked to us about Steve Cohen, what he's done with this franchise. Well, basically, Steve has thrown a lot of his billions of dollars at the team and that's what's made the difference this year. So but he's but he's been a fan. So was when they were in the World Series, not the playoffs. But he's been a fan since then, right, I mean since he was a little kid. Yeah. So I think this is so cool because in our financial bubble, uh Tom, where we only care about you know, business news, we know Steve Cohen as the big hedge fund guy who maybe used too much of an edge, right and got into legal trouble. He's kind of a bad guy because he pushed the limits a little bit too much, but obviously everyone was pushing the limits. He got caught. UM in baseball. You know, Baseball fans don't think of him that way, right. They think of this guy, especially if you're a Mets fan, as somebody with a lot of money who came in um to help for them make their franchise a winner. They probably love him absolutely, and I think that's you know, that's what he says was the primary reason why he bought the Mets was to try to bring joy to millions of people. Um. But it's it's certainly he you know, people Mets fans, they love him. At the baseball owners maybe not so much because he's spending you know, fortune. He's got the highest payroll in the league right now, and it's taken the Mets to the postseason for the first time. So Cathy talked to us about, like, do you think Steve Cohen is actually trying to kind of revamp his reputation? Is was his legacy, if you will, by the ownership of such a you know, a marquee franchise. I don't actually partly because Steve. You know, Steve was never um charged with with wrongdoing. His firm paid a fine, a record fine, UM. But I think he really did do it for the reasons that Tom just said. But but it has been a benefit of all this that people don't um think of him anymore because of the record find he paid. UM. Tom found a really cool stat that showed that UM, since he owned the Mets, there were twenty three mentions of Steve Cohen with insider trading and more than two thousand as owner of the Yeah, if that's his goal. But he's this seems like a guy who's going to be competitive in whatever realm. I mean, if you put him on the squash court, he's gonna throw an elbow. If you put him in hedge funds, he's going to try and use whatever edge he can. And if you put him in baseball. He's going to spend as much as he can to win, right, Is that how you frame him? Yeah? Absolutely, And I think when we talk about the reasons why he bought it, I mean, yeah, he wants to bring joy, but I think he's a competitive guy and he wants to win, and I think he enjoys it and he likes learning about something new. You know. He talked to We spoke to Billy Eppla, the general manager, and he talked about how involved you know, not necessarily interfering or anything like that, but the Cohen asked smart questions and he likes to learn and he likes to quiz him and figure things out. And I think that's a big reason why he bought it as well, was like a new challenge of this, is there any kind of you know, Moneyball was the last great baseball story. Michael Lewis wrote the book and then um Brad Pitt and Jonah Hill were awesome in the movie, but that they were cash strapped, right, Um, it seems like Steve Cohen would use that kind of mathematical analysis. He has always been a baseball fan, and then he was a Wall Street guy. They're all like that. Um, but he has the money to spend, so does he do like kind of a moneyball on steroids for lack of a better term. Um, it's kind of funny that they do lend a few people to the organization, to to the Mets to do some sort of to do some sort of projects to bring them basically up to speed, because the Wilpons never invested in that sort of quantitative analysis. But interestingly, they're not trying to be the quantiest team really league. Yeah, I think they're they're doing sort of man plus machine. Interesting, Tom, Do we have any sense of what Steve Cohen's kind of how he allocates his time these days between his point seventy two hedge fun between the Mets and maybe whatever whatever else he's doing, because it seems like philanthropy. He's not a collector. I mean, he's still trading every day. What do we know about it? He says, he's still trading every day. He still runs a book, his own book at point seventy two, but it's a lot smaller than it used to be. He's only trading during us hours. He's not you know, sitting there worrying about what's going on. In London, what's going on in Asia overnight? So his work day is shorter than it used to be. It's interesting, point seventy two manages more money than it's ever managed before. Um so the firm's grown, but it's kind of gotten more institutionalized, and he's not making all the decisions anymore. And I think after hours he's he's focused shifts to baseball. He's you know, he speaks to Billy Eppler at least once a week, while on once a week, and then every time there's any kind of transaction guys going up to the majors, going down in the minor leagues or whatever, you know, he's consulted on that. And so I think, you know, there's a he's got more stuff going on than just trading seven, which I think is what his life used to be. Does he talk to all of the players, Cathy? Does he say, hey, do you even know how to play this? No? I don't think he talks to the players that much. I mean, he definitely talks to the general manager a bit. Yeah, But I saw him, like you know, down at the Braves last weekend. He they had a new player coming up, Alvarez and he was like, you know, giving him some words of encouragement, saying don't stress about it. I think he likes that element of as well for sure. All Right, great stuff the Big Take story. Matt and I are big fans of the Big Take, and this one was a great one. Stevie Cohen and the match take a read. You can find out Bloomberg dot com slash Big Take, or you can also do it and I Big Take and I Big Take on the terminal. On the terminal, we appreciate that. Uh. Kathy Burton, hedge fund reporter Bloomberg News and Tom Maloney, editor with Bloomberg News. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can subscribe and listen to interviews with Apple Podcasts or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter at Matt Miller three. On False Sweeney, I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney. 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