Staying in the NBA but moving off the court. Michael Jordan's longtime agent, extraordinary mister David Falk, weighed in on the goat debate this week. Not surprisingly, Falk back to his former client, but he took it a step further. Speaking with The Sports Business Journal, Falk had this to say, quote, I really really like Lebron, but I think if Jordan had cherry picked what teams he wanted to be on and two other superstars, he would have won fifteen championships. End quote. This prompted a response from none other than Lebron James agent himself, mister Rich Paul, take a listen.

Staying in the NBA but moving off the court. Michael Jordan's longtime agent, extraordinary mister David Falk, weighed in on the goat debate this week. Not surprisingly, Falk back to his former client, but he took it a step further. Speaking with The Sports Business Journal, Falk had this to say, quote, I really really like Lebron, but I think if Jordan had cherry picked what teams he wanted to be on and two other superstars, he would have won fifteen championships. End quote. This prompted a response from none other than Lebron James agent himself, mister Rich Paul, take a listen.

We can't have revisionist history and we all want to just determine who's the gold and who's the best, and so on and so forth. But I just thought that was a little beneath David to say that Michael never had to leave they you know, Michael's never been the underdog in any finals, not one time. Michael never had a twenty four hour three sixty five news cycle, He never had shows built strictly to criticize him. People made millions of dollars criticizing Lebron James that was their entire job. Michael played for Dean Smith, Michael played for Phil Jackson, and Michael had Jerry Krause. I'm the biggest Michael Jordan fan ever, love Michael Jordan, and I don't think Michael Jordan would have used the term cherry picks, So I'm not up here to just credit Michael Jordan. I think Michael Jordan transcended our game to a level that we all benefited from.

We can't have revisionist history and we all want to just determine who's the gold and who's the best, and so on and so forth. But I just thought that was a little beneath David to say that Michael never had to leave they you know, Michael's never been the underdog in any finals, not one time. Michael never had a twenty four hour three sixty five news cycle, He never had shows built strictly to criticize him. People made millions of dollars criticizing Lebron James that was their entire job. Michael played for Dean Smith, Michael played for Phil Jackson, and Michael had Jerry Krause. I'm the biggest Michael Jordan fan ever, love Michael Jordan, and I don't think Michael Jordan would have used the term cherry picks, So I'm not up here to just credit Michael Jordan. I think Michael Jordan transcended our game to a level that we all benefited from.

What the hell do you mean, Rich Paul, when you say Michael never had a twenty four hour, three hundred and sixty five news cycle, He never had shows built strictly to criticize them. What shows are built strictly to criticize Lebron James? See? This is the BS. This, this is the BS Recover the Sport. It's a twenty four hours news cycle. There are plenty of positive things that are said about Lebron James on every show, every show. This is where the wanting and moaning accusations come from from him and his camp. What twenty four hour, three hundred and sixty five news cycle has shows built strictly to criticize them? So, in other words, the shows that criticize them never ever ever give him credit. Huh Ever, Look, man, I ain't got time. I'm not gonna even waste my time with this. I'm gonna get to my next guest. I'm gonna get to my next guest right now. I'd like to welcome to the show none other than mister David Falk himself. Longtime buddy. How you doing, David?

What the hell do you mean, Rich Paul, when you say Michael never had a twenty four hour, three hundred and sixty five news cycle, He never had shows built strictly to criticize them. What shows are built strictly to criticize Lebron James? See? This is the BS. This, this is the BS Recover the Sport. It's a twenty four hours news cycle. There are plenty of positive things that are said about Lebron James on every show, every show. This is where the wanting and moaning accusations come from from him and his camp. What twenty four hour, three hundred and sixty five news cycle has shows built strictly to criticize them? So, in other words, the shows that criticize them never ever ever give him credit. Huh Ever, Look, man, I ain't got time. I'm not gonna even waste my time with this. I'm gonna get to my next guest. I'm gonna get to my next guest right now. I'd like to welcome to the show none other than mister David Falk himself. Longtime buddy. How you doing, David?

How's everything you delighted to be with the student?

How's everything you delighted to be with the student?

You said what you said? You've had an opportunity to reflect on what you had to say about Lebron James in comparison to Michael Jordan. The floor is yours. What would you like to say now?

You said what you said? You've had an opportunity to reflect on what you had to say about Lebron James in comparison to Michael Jordan. The floor is yours. What would you like to say now?

I'm saying I thennounced that clearly Lebron James is a great player in any era. You'd be foolish to suggest on the laws, his longevity is, his stistics are amazing. I think what makes Michael to go goes way beyond the court. I think on the court, Michael obviated the center posision. Prior to Jordan, we needed the Elijah Watson Ewings, the Koreem's, the Bobonaiers, and the way Michael played he made it unnecessary to have a great center. Look when won the champions for Bill Weddington, Dicky Simpkins, Bill cart Right, and I think that had a huge impact on the game. Secondly, perhaps even more importantly, I think Michael individually broke down every barrier that existed for professional basketball players, and in particular African American professional basketball players, to become national mark getting brand ambassadors. So the whole generation of Rob's and Kobe's and Steph Curry's having the run shoes and being in commercials did not exist before Michael came in the game. Magic didn't have it, Bird didn't have it, Doctor Jaye didn't have it, Kareem didn't have it, And I think that's a preponderant impact. I think third, I believe he's the first NBA player to become a billionaire. I believe he's the first NBA player to become a majority owner of an NBA team. And finally, he had tremendous hit back on fashion. He changed the look of the way the players play with the long shorts. He made bald and beautiful. And so I think beyond comparing statistics, who had more points, who averaged more, even who had more championships, I think Michael's impact is extremely broad and deep in what he did to change the game. I don't think any other player in history will kind of impact.

I'm saying I thennounced that clearly Lebron James is a great player in any era. You'd be foolish to suggest on the laws, his longevity is, his stistics are amazing. I think what makes Michael to go goes way beyond the court. I think on the court, Michael obviated the center posision. Prior to Jordan, we needed the Elijah Watson Ewings, the Koreem's, the Bobonaiers, and the way Michael played he made it unnecessary to have a great center. Look when won the champions for Bill Weddington, Dicky Simpkins, Bill cart Right, and I think that had a huge impact on the game. Secondly, perhaps even more importantly, I think Michael individually broke down every barrier that existed for professional basketball players, and in particular African American professional basketball players, to become national mark getting brand ambassadors. So the whole generation of Rob's and Kobe's and Steph Curry's having the run shoes and being in commercials did not exist before Michael came in the game. Magic didn't have it, Bird didn't have it, Doctor Jaye didn't have it, Kareem didn't have it, And I think that's a preponderant impact. I think third, I believe he's the first NBA player to become a billionaire. I believe he's the first NBA player to become a majority owner of an NBA team. And finally, he had tremendous hit back on fashion. He changed the look of the way the players play with the long shorts. He made bald and beautiful. And so I think beyond comparing statistics, who had more points, who averaged more, even who had more championships, I think Michael's impact is extremely broad and deep in what he did to change the game. I don't think any other player in history will kind of impact.

What do you make of people who would look and I'm gonna I want to get far beyond those two individuals that we're talking about for the moment, But I got this one question to ask you, what do you make of folks and their assertions that the times that we're living in now, the advent of social media, did the digital stratus fere uh the microscope that is on players in today's game like never before. The impression is given that even the great Michael Jordan, with his and you know, unparalleled popularity, I compare him to know one, the only person I've ever compared him to was Michael Jackson for crying out loud. That's how popular Michael Jordan was. When you listen to people talk today, they talk about the climate, the environment, uh, the society that we're living in today, and they say it's far more invasive than it has ever been, which makes the road tougher for a guy like Lebron James compared to what Jordan had to endure during his complain his playing career. You've been around a long time, you know this business like the back of your hand. What do you make of that?

What do you make of people who would look and I'm gonna I want to get far beyond those two individuals that we're talking about for the moment, But I got this one question to ask you, what do you make of folks and their assertions that the times that we're living in now, the advent of social media, did the digital stratus fere uh the microscope that is on players in today's game like never before. The impression is given that even the great Michael Jordan, with his and you know, unparalleled popularity, I compare him to know one, the only person I've ever compared him to was Michael Jackson for crying out loud. That's how popular Michael Jordan was. When you listen to people talk today, they talk about the climate, the environment, uh, the society that we're living in today, and they say it's far more invasive than it has ever been, which makes the road tougher for a guy like Lebron James compared to what Jordan had to endure during his complain his playing career. You've been around a long time, you know this business like the back of your hand. What do you make of that?

Of those assertions, clearly social media has brought the fans closer to the players. Everyone can express their opinion. You don't have to work for a newspaper or a television station to have an opinion. But I think that's the natural tendency when you're the best at anything, there's a human tendency to try to tear people down, and certainly Michael have that because of his immense popularity. You know, people criticize them, for example, for not being political enough, not expressing his desire for certain candidates, and so sure, I think that the social media has changed the game. I also think if you want to be objective, the game has changed itself. I had this discussion about a month ago with Ron Thorne, who's a very dear friend of mine who drafted Michael Jordan, and he said to me, which I didn't know, He said, do you realize today that the average NBA team takes one thver more shots than they did in Jordan zero? So when Jordan averaged thirty eight points a game, if you if you increase that by a third, that means he would average fifty two. Now, I think Michael could have averaged and Michael took one point seven threes per game, that's all they tell. I think he could have averaged almost anything he wanted if if that was what was required to win. That's all he cared about was winning, And I think his record of six out of six is the greatest. Master of the NBA never lost the.

Of those assertions, clearly social media has brought the fans closer to the players. Everyone can express their opinion. You don't have to work for a newspaper or a television station to have an opinion. But I think that's the natural tendency when you're the best at anything, there's a human tendency to try to tear people down, and certainly Michael have that because of his immense popularity. You know, people criticize them, for example, for not being political enough, not expressing his desire for certain candidates, and so sure, I think that the social media has changed the game. I also think if you want to be objective, the game has changed itself. I had this discussion about a month ago with Ron Thorne, who's a very dear friend of mine who drafted Michael Jordan, and he said to me, which I didn't know, He said, do you realize today that the average NBA team takes one thver more shots than they did in Jordan zero? So when Jordan averaged thirty eight points a game, if you if you increase that by a third, that means he would average fifty two. Now, I think Michael could have averaged and Michael took one point seven threes per game, that's all they tell. I think he could have averaged almost anything he wanted if if that was what was required to win. That's all he cared about was winning, And I think his record of six out of six is the greatest. Master of the NBA never lost the.

Championship well, don't forget. He also never allowed a championship series to get to a seventh game. He took you out in six or less every single time. That's the Michael Jordan that we're talking about here, David, expanding beyond Michael Jordan and Lebron James when we think about the age that we're living in. One of the discussions your comments prompted was player empowerment and the kind of things that have taken place in today's and in today's sports world. As as an agent, looking at the state of affairs that exist not just in the NBA but professional sports as it pertains the sovereignty involving players, player empowerment, et cetera, et cetera. What are the kind of thoughts that come to your mind as to what we're witnessing today, and whether or not it's good or it's bad for the world of sports in this day and age.

Championship well, don't forget. He also never allowed a championship series to get to a seventh game. He took you out in six or less every single time. That's the Michael Jordan that we're talking about here, David, expanding beyond Michael Jordan and Lebron James when we think about the age that we're living in. One of the discussions your comments prompted was player empowerment and the kind of things that have taken place in today's and in today's sports world. As as an agent, looking at the state of affairs that exist not just in the NBA but professional sports as it pertains the sovereignty involving players, player empowerment, et cetera, et cetera. What are the kind of thoughts that come to your mind as to what we're witnessing today, and whether or not it's good or it's bad for the world of sports in this day and age.

Great question. So Number one, I believe that players great players have only their in power. I think the biggest difference between today's generation of players and if you will, Jordan's generation, the Magic's generation, is how the players exercise the power. Now, if you understand that in nineteen eighty two, that's a long time ago, the NBA ushered in a solid cap and for the last forty three years, the players have essentially owned fifty revenues, so their fifty to fifty partners with the league. The only way players can make more money is to grow the business of the NBA. Now, I believe that when players exercise their power poorly and they make statements that detigrate the game, I think that they're impeding the ability of themselves to make more money, which is foolished. So I'll give you a couple of examples you want to talk about player empowerment. In nineteen eighty four, in nineteen eighty five, there were two players in the history of the game that opted out of the group licensing program. What was named Michael Jordan what was named Patrick Ewing. They did not allow the league to use them in group licensing, and I opted about of both of them. Are you not allowed to do that today? In nineteen eighty five, Patrick Cownie became the first player in history to have an early termination option in his contract. He signed a ten year deal three times more money than Magic made the year before as a veteran, and he had the option to opt out after six years if market conditions change. That is empowerment. Michael Jordan was the first player to have the love of the Game clause that did not require him to that allowed him to practice at North Carolina in the summer, which came to Bekna's know as the love of the Game clause. Darnell Valentine in nineteen eighty became the first player to challenge the league's ability under paragraph thirteen B to prevent players from doing endorsements or interviews without permission of the team. That's in every contract now Valentine versus the Portland Trail players. So I can give you one hundred examples of player empowerment. Patrick Ewing became the first rookie in history to be the highest paid player in the league. He made fifty five percent more money than Koreem, who was the highest paid veteran of all time. I believe that that's empower them. Andy Ferry did the same thing in nineteen ninety and he clearly was not one of the great players in the history league. So I believe that players in every sport have always had tremendous power. But I think that today I don't think they use it as judiciously as they should. If the goal is to make more money and grow the business.

Great question. So Number one, I believe that players great players have only their in power. I think the biggest difference between today's generation of players and if you will, Jordan's generation, the Magic's generation, is how the players exercise the power. Now, if you understand that in nineteen eighty two, that's a long time ago, the NBA ushered in a solid cap and for the last forty three years, the players have essentially owned fifty revenues, so their fifty to fifty partners with the league. The only way players can make more money is to grow the business of the NBA. Now, I believe that when players exercise their power poorly and they make statements that detigrate the game, I think that they're impeding the ability of themselves to make more money, which is foolished. So I'll give you a couple of examples you want to talk about player empowerment. In nineteen eighty four, in nineteen eighty five, there were two players in the history of the game that opted out of the group licensing program. What was named Michael Jordan what was named Patrick Ewing. They did not allow the league to use them in group licensing, and I opted about of both of them. Are you not allowed to do that today? In nineteen eighty five, Patrick Cownie became the first player in history to have an early termination option in his contract. He signed a ten year deal three times more money than Magic made the year before as a veteran, and he had the option to opt out after six years if market conditions change. That is empowerment. Michael Jordan was the first player to have the love of the Game clause that did not require him to that allowed him to practice at North Carolina in the summer, which came to Bekna's know as the love of the Game clause. Darnell Valentine in nineteen eighty became the first player to challenge the league's ability under paragraph thirteen B to prevent players from doing endorsements or interviews without permission of the team. That's in every contract now Valentine versus the Portland Trail players. So I can give you one hundred examples of player empowerment. Patrick Ewing became the first rookie in history to be the highest paid player in the league. He made fifty five percent more money than Koreem, who was the highest paid veteran of all time. I believe that that's empower them. Andy Ferry did the same thing in nineteen ninety and he clearly was not one of the great players in the history league. So I believe that players in every sport have always had tremendous power. But I think that today I don't think they use it as judiciously as they should. If the goal is to make more money and grow the business.

Well, let me ask you this, David, give me an example if you can. If it's compromising, please don't bother. But if you can, give me an example of players that have exercised influence and exercised power, but you don't believe it's necessarily for their good or for the good of the game. Could you highlight an example that would it be good to illustrate your point?

Well, let me ask you this, David, give me an example if you can. If it's compromising, please don't bother. But if you can, give me an example of players that have exercised influence and exercised power, but you don't believe it's necessarily for their good or for the good of the game. Could you highlight an example that would it be good to illustrate your point?

Well's of a seference to what I would say is is traders? Okay? Now, I personally personally probably made ten or fifteen major trades. I made the Patrick Ewing trade to see how I didn't want to make it. I didn't believe it, but he and the next agreed to will be best to have a change of scenery. It was a thirteen player trade. I traded stuff on Marlbury, New Jersey and the thirteen player trade with Sam Cassell. I did that behind the scenes. The minute you announced publicly as a player that you're not going to play anymore hard as an example, you know, it makes it so much harder to make the trade for the exact reason that Rich Paul indicated. It's hard for Lebron because you're shining the spotlight on the player, and the other teams around the league know that the player is demanded a trade, he doesn't want to be there. It's going to be a problem, and so they're not going to offer fair value and so the very goal the player has of moving he frustrated. It makes more difficult by, you know, by publicly announcing it. Now. The opposite of that, interestingly to me, and I'm a big Nico Harrison fan, is the fact that Dallas only talked to one team to trade Luca. You know, Lucas were on the top five players in the league and it wasn't competitive bidding. I know they had their reasons for it. I don't understand all the dynamics, so I'm not here to criticize it, but it surprised me that if you if you're going to sell one of the most valuable assets in the league, that you wouldn't want to have the highest level of competitive bidding. But the trade is the easiest example I could give you, Steven, Well, now I'll give you an example on the agent side. Okay. I believe that every time an agent comes out publicly and says any of the following, my player's not getting enough playing time, it's not getting enough shots, not making enough money, the team is taking advantage of them. They are advertising that they've done a really lousy job of being an agent, because if they were doing a good job, none of those things would be happening. And if they were happening, then the answer is to sit down with the owner or the general manager behind the seeds and try to figure that a way to prove I'm gonna tell you a funny story, Okay. In two thousand, I saw my only high school player in my fifty year career, a guy named Darius Miles. He was the third pick in the draft, and yes, I went to a game one night in LA to see Elton Brand. Our company at that time represented eight of the players on the Clippers eight. I didn't represent the ball myself. I only had Elton. I walk into the locker room to see Elton and he motions beat it talk to Darius. Apparently on the way from the locker room from the court into the locker room, Darius hadn't played a minute. He cursed out the coach, Alvit Gentry, who I've known since he was the assistant coach of Very Brown and Kids, squeak guy. So I go over to Alvit. I say, Alan, what's the problem. He said, David, I love it. I love Darius, but he's not working hard enough. Okay. So I told Darius to come to my hotel them the next day and I said to him, son, if you want to play, or do you want to sit on the bench. They said, of course I want to mister Faulk, That's why I'm unhappy. I said, well, I don't think you want to play, and he said, why would you say that? I said, because if you want to play, you have to show the coach that you want to play, and the way you show him is by working harder. He doesn't feel your work hard, and I promise you that if you want Carter, he will play more. That was on a Thursday. The next night they played the Houston Rockets. Darius played thirty minutes. I had twenty one or nine. I went to congratulate him after the game. Couldn't find him. Where do you think he was? He was in the weight room.

Well's of a seference to what I would say is is traders? Okay? Now, I personally personally probably made ten or fifteen major trades. I made the Patrick Ewing trade to see how I didn't want to make it. I didn't believe it, but he and the next agreed to will be best to have a change of scenery. It was a thirteen player trade. I traded stuff on Marlbury, New Jersey and the thirteen player trade with Sam Cassell. I did that behind the scenes. The minute you announced publicly as a player that you're not going to play anymore hard as an example, you know, it makes it so much harder to make the trade for the exact reason that Rich Paul indicated. It's hard for Lebron because you're shining the spotlight on the player, and the other teams around the league know that the player is demanded a trade, he doesn't want to be there. It's going to be a problem, and so they're not going to offer fair value and so the very goal the player has of moving he frustrated. It makes more difficult by, you know, by publicly announcing it. Now. The opposite of that, interestingly to me, and I'm a big Nico Harrison fan, is the fact that Dallas only talked to one team to trade Luca. You know, Lucas were on the top five players in the league and it wasn't competitive bidding. I know they had their reasons for it. I don't understand all the dynamics, so I'm not here to criticize it, but it surprised me that if you if you're going to sell one of the most valuable assets in the league, that you wouldn't want to have the highest level of competitive bidding. But the trade is the easiest example I could give you, Steven, Well, now I'll give you an example on the agent side. Okay. I believe that every time an agent comes out publicly and says any of the following, my player's not getting enough playing time, it's not getting enough shots, not making enough money, the team is taking advantage of them. They are advertising that they've done a really lousy job of being an agent, because if they were doing a good job, none of those things would be happening. And if they were happening, then the answer is to sit down with the owner or the general manager behind the seeds and try to figure that a way to prove I'm gonna tell you a funny story, Okay. In two thousand, I saw my only high school player in my fifty year career, a guy named Darius Miles. He was the third pick in the draft, and yes, I went to a game one night in LA to see Elton Brand. Our company at that time represented eight of the players on the Clippers eight. I didn't represent the ball myself. I only had Elton. I walk into the locker room to see Elton and he motions beat it talk to Darius. Apparently on the way from the locker room from the court into the locker room, Darius hadn't played a minute. He cursed out the coach, Alvit Gentry, who I've known since he was the assistant coach of Very Brown and Kids, squeak guy. So I go over to Alvit. I say, Alan, what's the problem. He said, David, I love it. I love Darius, but he's not working hard enough. Okay. So I told Darius to come to my hotel them the next day and I said to him, son, if you want to play, or do you want to sit on the bench. They said, of course I want to mister Faulk, That's why I'm unhappy. I said, well, I don't think you want to play, and he said, why would you say that? I said, because if you want to play, you have to show the coach that you want to play, and the way you show him is by working harder. He doesn't feel your work hard, and I promise you that if you want Carter, he will play more. That was on a Thursday. The next night they played the Houston Rockets. Darius played thirty minutes. I had twenty one or nine. I went to congratulate him after the game. Couldn't find him. Where do you think he was? He was in the weight room.

Probably after the games in the weight room.

Probably after the games in the weight room.

Now, I went up to coach Gentry, who I really like, and said, album is this complicated? You want him to play? You want him to work and he wants to play. Now, most coaches in the NBA today are reluctant to tell the players that I working hard enough. Now. I'm not talking about the Papovitches or the pat Rileys. I'm talking about the younger coats because they're afraid they're going to lose the relationship with the players. The players are so much of them, they don't want to tell the coach that is bothering them that they're not playing. They don't think that's cool. And I think you need to communicate. So my job is to talk to a guy like Alvin and tell them that. And it solved the problem. And so I think that I think on both sides, this is a thing that should be done behind the scenes. Pride with my mom, who's a very highly educated woman, my life mentor. She taught me when I was very never hang your derby logging out publicly. And so I think demanding trades, complaining about how much you're making, those things are not productive to achieving the results that you want to achieve. And on top of it, I think it demeans the game. And I think one of the great differences between Jordan's era and today is I think the players had a much greater as a whole, not saying every single player had a much greater respect for the game as a as a whole. I'm going to tell you a great story, and you've never heard when Michael Jordan, please was recruited by Ted Leonsis, the current owner of the Washington Wizards, to come to Washington being the president. The day he was going to get file approval from a Poland West Uncelton's the GM of the team and the face of the franchise for many years from nineteen sixty seven. This is nineteen ninety nine, he called me up and asked me the set up a meeting for him with Michael. I didn't attend the meeting, but apparently at the meeting, West told Michael who's been leading with Michael King, and Michael told him if you leave all of dot Com, I respect you. You paid the path that young players of the sell. What's the problem And Wes said, have nothing to do with you. Ab Poland runned around telling everyone else that he's like my father and I'm the lowest paid general manager in the entire NBA. He's he's disrespecting me, and I'm quitting and Michael said to do please, don't quit. I will take care of this. So what to Pauland's house And Pauland says, Tom, I'm ready to hire. I'm very excited to hire you. What should I pay you? And Michael, who's a very very intelligent man and a very saddened businessman, said pay me what you think is fair. And Pauland said to him, well, I understand the range of sellers for the president team is between one million and two million, so I hope to pay you one million. And I think Ted probably had a heart attack when he heard that, because he put it all in work, will go over and do it and coming to pauland and said, I have a suggestion, why don't you pay me two millions, give one by two million to West and I'm going to give the other million to charity. He worked for free and he took care of us. So Michael had a tremendous respect for the players that paved the path before him. No, one of the things that he's done, he's allowed the whole generations that came after him for the past four years to enjoy incredible commercial success off the board. And again that's one of the reasons I think he's the goat. But he always expressed a tremendous whatever differences he might have had with Jerry Krause, and if you saw the last dance, they were many. Of course, of course kept the problem. Now. I was amused with Rich Paul, I really liked said that Michael had the advantage of having Jerry Crouse. And I don't want to say anything angry about Jerry Krouse because he died and I'm good friends at ryin Star. But if you asked me what I put when I put him in my top twenty five gms over the last fifty years, I would not I would note if he made a lot of great, imprudent decisions. He drafted Charles Oakley over Karl Malone, he drafted Brad Sellers over Johnny Dalk as the national player there. And he made a lot of terrible decisions. But they want and that's all. That's all it matters, David.

Now, I went up to coach Gentry, who I really like, and said, album is this complicated? You want him to play? You want him to work and he wants to play. Now, most coaches in the NBA today are reluctant to tell the players that I working hard enough. Now. I'm not talking about the Papovitches or the pat Rileys. I'm talking about the younger coats because they're afraid they're going to lose the relationship with the players. The players are so much of them, they don't want to tell the coach that is bothering them that they're not playing. They don't think that's cool. And I think you need to communicate. So my job is to talk to a guy like Alvin and tell them that. And it solved the problem. And so I think that I think on both sides, this is a thing that should be done behind the scenes. Pride with my mom, who's a very highly educated woman, my life mentor. She taught me when I was very never hang your derby logging out publicly. And so I think demanding trades, complaining about how much you're making, those things are not productive to achieving the results that you want to achieve. And on top of it, I think it demeans the game. And I think one of the great differences between Jordan's era and today is I think the players had a much greater as a whole, not saying every single player had a much greater respect for the game as a as a whole. I'm going to tell you a great story, and you've never heard when Michael Jordan, please was recruited by Ted Leonsis, the current owner of the Washington Wizards, to come to Washington being the president. The day he was going to get file approval from a Poland West Uncelton's the GM of the team and the face of the franchise for many years from nineteen sixty seven. This is nineteen ninety nine, he called me up and asked me the set up a meeting for him with Michael. I didn't attend the meeting, but apparently at the meeting, West told Michael who's been leading with Michael King, and Michael told him if you leave all of dot Com, I respect you. You paid the path that young players of the sell. What's the problem And Wes said, have nothing to do with you. Ab Poland runned around telling everyone else that he's like my father and I'm the lowest paid general manager in the entire NBA. He's he's disrespecting me, and I'm quitting and Michael said to do please, don't quit. I will take care of this. So what to Pauland's house And Pauland says, Tom, I'm ready to hire. I'm very excited to hire you. What should I pay you? And Michael, who's a very very intelligent man and a very saddened businessman, said pay me what you think is fair. And Pauland said to him, well, I understand the range of sellers for the president team is between one million and two million, so I hope to pay you one million. And I think Ted probably had a heart attack when he heard that, because he put it all in work, will go over and do it and coming to pauland and said, I have a suggestion, why don't you pay me two millions, give one by two million to West and I'm going to give the other million to charity. He worked for free and he took care of us. So Michael had a tremendous respect for the players that paved the path before him. No, one of the things that he's done, he's allowed the whole generations that came after him for the past four years to enjoy incredible commercial success off the board. And again that's one of the reasons I think he's the goat. But he always expressed a tremendous whatever differences he might have had with Jerry Krause, and if you saw the last dance, they were many. Of course, of course kept the problem. Now. I was amused with Rich Paul, I really liked said that Michael had the advantage of having Jerry Crouse. And I don't want to say anything angry about Jerry Krouse because he died and I'm good friends at ryin Star. But if you asked me what I put when I put him in my top twenty five gms over the last fifty years, I would not I would note if he made a lot of great, imprudent decisions. He drafted Charles Oakley over Karl Malone, he drafted Brad Sellers over Johnny Dalk as the national player there. And he made a lot of terrible decisions. But they want and that's all. That's all it matters, David.

I want to know. I'm very I've always been very interested in asking you this question. When Magic Johnson and Larry Bird came into the league, obviously they deserve an immense credit for building the popularity of the NBA brand. Most would argue Jordan took it to another level. But he did so because his individual greatness was so supreme, so so so awesome that you know, he took the game in a different direction, but it also individualized the game more and as a result, people view that as hurting the game. I look at Lebron and not that he decided to depart from Cleveland to Miami, but how he handled it, as you talk about respecting the game, respecting the league, respecting the owner, etc. And the fact that he was willing to be he's so publicly defiant or dare I say dismissive of Dan Gilbert at that time. I thought it served to compromise player empowerment to some degree because collective bargaining negotiations took place thereafter. Remember there was a Chris Paul trade to the Lakers that was ultimately nixed once Dan Gilbert had raised Holy hell by writing a public letter to the league, et cetera. When you think about the damage that has been done to the league, which obviously is flourishing, and so we got to be careful with that word damaging. But if there's a negative, is it veering away from team with Bird and Magic and Boston and La to the individual greatness of a Michael Jordan Or is it along the lines of player empowerment and sovereignty exercised by the likes of Lebron James that clearly has appeared to have a residual impact. What is your thought about that question?

I want to know. I'm very I've always been very interested in asking you this question. When Magic Johnson and Larry Bird came into the league, obviously they deserve an immense credit for building the popularity of the NBA brand. Most would argue Jordan took it to another level. But he did so because his individual greatness was so supreme, so so so awesome that you know, he took the game in a different direction, but it also individualized the game more and as a result, people view that as hurting the game. I look at Lebron and not that he decided to depart from Cleveland to Miami, but how he handled it, as you talk about respecting the game, respecting the league, respecting the owner, etc. And the fact that he was willing to be he's so publicly defiant or dare I say dismissive of Dan Gilbert at that time. I thought it served to compromise player empowerment to some degree because collective bargaining negotiations took place thereafter. Remember there was a Chris Paul trade to the Lakers that was ultimately nixed once Dan Gilbert had raised Holy hell by writing a public letter to the league, et cetera. When you think about the damage that has been done to the league, which obviously is flourishing, and so we got to be careful with that word damaging. But if there's a negative, is it veering away from team with Bird and Magic and Boston and La to the individual greatness of a Michael Jordan Or is it along the lines of player empowerment and sovereignty exercised by the likes of Lebron James that clearly has appeared to have a residual impact. What is your thought about that question?

Well, first of all, well Lebron went to Baiani. He was a free ager. He had the right to pick any TV of the leg that he thought would best. I have no I think the mistake he made, in my opinion, it was a few mistate if pr misteak was when he did the show the decision with Jim Gray and he said, I'm going to win not one, not two, not three, but eight titles, which he still has at one. I think if I were Lebron's met, and I love Maverick Carter, I'm very good friends with Marverck Carter, who's Lebron's marketing on, I would have told him do the interview and the day you win your first ring, the first not a have a show, hold up the ring and say this is why I came to Miami, this is I couldn't achieve this in Cleveland. Now. Interestingly, if I can give you a contrast, and I'm not saying one is right one's wrong, it's just personal preference. I asked Michael once, would you ever like to play with Birdie Magic, sort of like to recreate the Dream Team Olympic Barns, And he said, are you nuts? I would never want to play with bird Magic. I wanted to beat their butts every night on a one on one competitive level, and just different personalities. That doesn't make Lebron's choice wrong. And I want to be crystal clear, I'm great respect for Lebron as a player. I think his longevity, his impact, He's a great athlete, you know, I think he probably could have played on the sports And clearly, you know, when they asked me, do I think he's in the top ten, of course I think he's the top ten. Now. I had an interesting discussion over dinner with President Obama about this very subject, like who's number one, who's number two? I would say to you publicly, what difference does it make who's number two? Oh? Thing that makes the difference is who's number one? You know who runded around four years? I say, God, don't you think that the team that lost that Super Bowl was a great team? No, they didn't win the Super Bowl. Either one or you're not. And clearly Lebron will be in the pantheon of great players for a lot of years now. You could say arguably that the greatest player was Bill Russell because he won most championships eleven out of thirteen. You could say Oscar Robertson was the greatest player because the average of triple double. When Michael was asked in Cleveland, when they presented the top seventy five players of all time, who do you think is the greatest player of all time? Without hesitating, he said Oscar Robertson. When they asked Lebron. Who's the greatest player of all time? Without hesitating, he said Lebron James. Now, if someone asked me, who do you think is the greatest agent ever of all time? I say Larry Fleischer. He was the head of the Union. He created the rules that allowed free agency, all the things he did. Now, if someone thought that I was the greatest, I would let them say that. I would let you say that. I would never say that myself. I just don't think it's a for you to have to make that coming. But I want to be crystal clear nationally, I would never want to offend Lebron James. I like him. I think we have a good relationship. I think I have a prety good relationship with Rich and Maverick. And I monral Lebron for his commitment to the game, his longevity, and I think he's a completely different kind of a player than Michael most people that I respected basketball, if you were comparing Kobe and Lebron, saying Kobe's more like Michael and Lebron's more like Magic, and I can make an argument that Magic Johnson is one of the greatest players of all time. Now, think about this, Dudd Okay. In nineteen seventy nine in the NCAA Final, Magic squared afrigainst Burn. At the time, it was the highest rated game in the history of basketball at any level. Magic won. One year later, the Lakers are playing philm and you're home to in the NBA Finals, and in the game, Krim gets her Magic play center. I remember the exactly. I think he had thirty seven and fourteen, had the baby hook to.

Well, first of all, well Lebron went to Baiani. He was a free ager. He had the right to pick any TV of the leg that he thought would best. I have no I think the mistake he made, in my opinion, it was a few mistate if pr misteak was when he did the show the decision with Jim Gray and he said, I'm going to win not one, not two, not three, but eight titles, which he still has at one. I think if I were Lebron's met, and I love Maverick Carter, I'm very good friends with Marverck Carter, who's Lebron's marketing on, I would have told him do the interview and the day you win your first ring, the first not a have a show, hold up the ring and say this is why I came to Miami, this is I couldn't achieve this in Cleveland. Now. Interestingly, if I can give you a contrast, and I'm not saying one is right one's wrong, it's just personal preference. I asked Michael once, would you ever like to play with Birdie Magic, sort of like to recreate the Dream Team Olympic Barns, And he said, are you nuts? I would never want to play with bird Magic. I wanted to beat their butts every night on a one on one competitive level, and just different personalities. That doesn't make Lebron's choice wrong. And I want to be crystal clear, I'm great respect for Lebron as a player. I think his longevity, his impact, He's a great athlete, you know, I think he probably could have played on the sports And clearly, you know, when they asked me, do I think he's in the top ten, of course I think he's the top ten. Now. I had an interesting discussion over dinner with President Obama about this very subject, like who's number one, who's number two? I would say to you publicly, what difference does it make who's number two? Oh? Thing that makes the difference is who's number one? You know who runded around four years? I say, God, don't you think that the team that lost that Super Bowl was a great team? No, they didn't win the Super Bowl. Either one or you're not. And clearly Lebron will be in the pantheon of great players for a lot of years now. You could say arguably that the greatest player was Bill Russell because he won most championships eleven out of thirteen. You could say Oscar Robertson was the greatest player because the average of triple double. When Michael was asked in Cleveland, when they presented the top seventy five players of all time, who do you think is the greatest player of all time? Without hesitating, he said Oscar Robertson. When they asked Lebron. Who's the greatest player of all time? Without hesitating, he said Lebron James. Now, if someone asked me, who do you think is the greatest agent ever of all time? I say Larry Fleischer. He was the head of the Union. He created the rules that allowed free agency, all the things he did. Now, if someone thought that I was the greatest, I would let them say that. I would let you say that. I would never say that myself. I just don't think it's a for you to have to make that coming. But I want to be crystal clear nationally, I would never want to offend Lebron James. I like him. I think we have a good relationship. I think I have a prety good relationship with Rich and Maverick. And I monral Lebron for his commitment to the game, his longevity, and I think he's a completely different kind of a player than Michael most people that I respected basketball, if you were comparing Kobe and Lebron, saying Kobe's more like Michael and Lebron's more like Magic, and I can make an argument that Magic Johnson is one of the greatest players of all time. Now, think about this, Dudd Okay. In nineteen seventy nine in the NCAA Final, Magic squared afrigainst Burn. At the time, it was the highest rated game in the history of basketball at any level. Magic won. One year later, the Lakers are playing philm and you're home to in the NBA Finals, and in the game, Krim gets her Magic play center. I remember the exactly. I think he had thirty seven and fourteen, had the baby hook to.

Win the game. Forty two he had, forty two. He had forty two.

Win the game. Forty two he had, forty two. He had forty two.

Yep, forty two and seventeen right huge rebounds. He won. The game was the Finals MVP and Rookie of the Year. Now, if he had a one year career, and I'm here to give my props to Magic Johnson from the time he won the NCAA to the time he'd be in the Hall of Fame. Just for that one year, that was one of the greatest impacts in basketball, college and pro in one year. On top of that, you know, as popular as Michael is. I think if Magic had the proper representation as were working and we try to sign it, we actually thought we're going to represent Magic. I think Magic could have done a lot of the things that Michael did at eighty four in nineteen seventy nine, but he didn't have an agent that had the marketing background or savvy right to understand the impact that Magic made in the number one media market entertainment market in the United States.

Yep, forty two and seventeen right huge rebounds. He won. The game was the Finals MVP and Rookie of the Year. Now, if he had a one year career, and I'm here to give my props to Magic Johnson from the time he won the NCAA to the time he'd be in the Hall of Fame. Just for that one year, that was one of the greatest impacts in basketball, college and pro in one year. On top of that, you know, as popular as Michael is. I think if Magic had the proper representation as were working and we try to sign it, we actually thought we're going to represent Magic. I think Magic could have done a lot of the things that Michael did at eighty four in nineteen seventy nine, but he didn't have an agent that had the marketing background or savvy right to understand the impact that Magic made in the number one media market entertainment market in the United States.

David, before I let you get on out of here, i'd be remissing neglecting to ask you this question. You and I go back many years, many decades. We've known each other since nineteen ninety five for crying out loud rough around the edges at the beginning because I was ignorant and didn't know any better, and then appreciate your brilliance until later on when you took me under your wing. It taught me so many things over the years. I can't even express my level of gratitude to you, and we're friends to this day. I wonder, and I want to end this interview by asking you, being I'll say it, arguably the greatest agent ever in any sport, considering what you know, what you've negotiated, the connections that you have had, the inroads you have made along the way to influence the game, to influence sports overall. What are your thoughts about today's business as it pertains to agents in today's business compared to what it was when you were doing it. I'll give you the floor. That's my very last question. To you take the floor and answer that question.

David, before I let you get on out of here, i'd be remissing neglecting to ask you this question. You and I go back many years, many decades. We've known each other since nineteen ninety five for crying out loud rough around the edges at the beginning because I was ignorant and didn't know any better, and then appreciate your brilliance until later on when you took me under your wing. It taught me so many things over the years. I can't even express my level of gratitude to you, and we're friends to this day. I wonder, and I want to end this interview by asking you, being I'll say it, arguably the greatest agent ever in any sport, considering what you know, what you've negotiated, the connections that you have had, the inroads you have made along the way to influence the game, to influence sports overall. What are your thoughts about today's business as it pertains to agents in today's business compared to what it was when you were doing it. I'll give you the floor. That's my very last question. To you take the floor and answer that question.

Please, it's a great it's a great question, stup. So Number one, I think that the preciple role of an agent in business, whether you a Hollywood agent or sports agent, is to negotiate contracts and something approximately seventy percent of all the contracts in the NBA today are not negotiated at all. If you're win Bayama and you're coming in the league as the number one pick or Cooper Flag, there's no negotiations. As a weight scale. If you're a great player like Lebron or kerg, Kevin Durant, luc and Donsis, there's no negotiations. There's a maximum. If you're an average player, most of the teams are pretty well capped. There are mid level exceptions, bi annual exceptions, there are minimums, and so the roll of an agent has been dramatically curtailed by the rules. It's very hard to make an impact. If I can give you an example, So in my career, as I mentioned, I had two rookies who are the highest paid players of all time. I negotiated the first ever one hundred million dollar contract Balonza Morning in nineteen ninety five for one hundred and sixteen million dollars for thirteen years, and I made him turn it down. One year later, he signed for one hundred and five for seven. He would have played six years for free, and he thought I'd lost my mind when I told him to turn it down. That was dramatically higher. I negotiated contract the same year for Juwan Howard, who was a great friend and a great player. He made seventy percent moan than Chris Weber on the same team, playing the same position. They went to the same college. I couldn't do that today, I remember, you can't do it. So the ability to separate was like in football, a great receiver separates himself, That's how he captures the ball. In today's NBA, an agent can't separate himself. And that frustrates me. It takes away a lot of your creativity, a lot of the things that I did that enabled me. Now I was I was. I want to return the favorite of my friend Rich Paul. I was disappointed that Rich Paul mistakenly compared by comment about cherry picking, which means that you are you are picking where you want to go, which which your player has every right to do, is a free agent. To the fact that three of the greatest coaches in the history of college basketball, Dean Smith, John Thompson, and Coach pay recommended me to their players. And the reason he recommended me wasn't because they liked me. It's because our track record with the rookies was so superior to anyone else in the business that it was an easy decision for them. Now, if I can give you and your listeners an analogy to answer your first Pacific question, student, I think the greatest investor in the history of the United States was Warren Buffett, and he's also one of the richest men. Now, if the Securities Exchange Commission, which regulates investments, passed a rule and said no investment manager can get more than a six percent return, you know it's illegal to get more than six percent, he would turn Warren Buffett into a first year kid out of business school. I'll give you another example. Okay, I use this frequently. I'm going to take Lebron back to his days in Cleveland. Okay, early days, the NBA passes the rule they say no player could score more than twelve points a game. It's like fouling out. Once you had twelve, you got to sit down. Now, Gollic Lebron James would score twelve points in the first three minutes of the game. He could literally go to a movie, come back and meet with his teammates, you know, after the game. So the season ends and he goes out to lunch with his teammate Matthew Dalla Vadovo, and he says, Dalli, what kind of year did you have? And Dallas says, average forty one minutes and twelve points a game, And how'd you do Lebron? Lebron say, will average three minutes and twelve points a game, and Dallas says, well, I guess we both the same kind of players because the rules have homogenized Lebron's ability to be Lebron. And that's what the agent business, in my opinion, has become. So I was intrigued when the current MVP shake Gilgos Alexander decided to represent himself. And while I think that there are many reasons that shake yogis Alexander needs an agent, he may want to get traded, he may be having problems with the team. And there's a famous expression, Steven that a lawyer who represents himself has a full for a client. And so it's very difficult to walk in and say I should be you know, I don't want to be here. That's why you need third party people. But I think that the I think that a lot of great players are going to do what Kevin Durant did with Rich Climbing a little bit what Lebron did with with Maverick Carter and have one person as sort of like their business manager, because the role of the negotiations has to climb. Now, the other part that's critically important is marketing, and you know, I think that, you know, I find of thing with Aaron Goodwin. I think Aaron at one point had Lebron, Dwight Howard, Kevin Durant, and Horford. He did an amazing job for those guys in marketing. He got Lebron a one hundred million dollar deal with Nike as a rookie, got a big deal for Dwight Howard Royalties. I think, you know, I think he's and I think there's a very very important role for the star players to have someone off the court. But as I said at the conference, if I were coming out of law school today, based on the state of the Union of the sports world, I would definitely want to be in sports, but I probably would not want to be an agent. I almost definitely would not want to be an agent. And that's why this spring, when my last client, Otto Porter Junior, retired, I've let it run out. I don't want to sign any more players. I love basketball, love what it's done for me. I am humbled by the fact that some fourteen Hall of Fame players have the trust of their careers for me, including the Goat. Everyone knows you know how important that relationship has been in my life. I would expand that include Patrick coach Thompson, who's the number one John Thompson in my books. You know, if you read my book The Ball Truth, John Thompson was the most influential man in my life. Not the most influential coach, not the most influential client, the most influent. I learned so much from John that he should have been and so I've been privileged to work for the best of the brightest, privileged to meet people who are great their profession, like you, I admire what you've done in your career since we've known each other from the time they were cub Report in Philly. And I want to end by saying this is not this you know, last thing I want to say in the day Magic Isaiah Mark mc guire her boy, and so I really like represented by a guy and Charlie Talker. He was a fun guy. I like Charlie and our guys they were more urban guys. Our guys all came, as Rich pointed out, from Carolina, Duke, Georgetown, Kansas, you know. And the coaches basically gave us the players. They didn't do it to do us a favor. They didn't do it because they had any benefit. They did it because they wanted their players to make the most money that they could. And it was sort of like it was like the Bloods and the Crips. They were sold a little competition or in the All Star Game in eighty five, I would name names some of the players from that group try to incruit Michael to leave us and can go with Charlie Tucker, and Michael was really offended because he's such an incredibly loyal person and so It's not a battle between Michael and Lebron. I think that two of the greatest players in history, not necessarily the two greatest players, two of the greatest players in history. Lebron's earned my respect, you know, a long time ago, and if I say anything that offended him, I would publicly apologize. Not my intent, I think it. As Michael correctly points out, maybe it's a good way to end the discussion. It is almost impossible to could players from different eras. When Bill Russell won eleven titles, there are only eight teams in the league. When UCLA won all those championships in a row, there was only sixteen teams in the In the NCAA tournament, it's a lot easier you start out in the sixteen today. Getting to the screen sixteen is a pretty good accomplishment for a lot of teams. But what I think separates Michael from every other player is not how many games you want or how many points he scored. It's the impact that he made on the game in so many different areas. As I mentioned earlier, being the first player to be a majority owner, the opportunities that he personally and individually created. You know, there was a whole a bunch of people Stephen after Jordan came to the league. It's like the search for the fountain of youth. They want to know, is Harold Miner nicknamed Baby Jordan? Was he going to be the next guy? Was Petty Hardaway going to be the next guy? At one point it was gonna be Ron Harper was going to be the next guy. And the truth is, they'll never be another Michael. They just won't. He came from an incredible family, two petam family, you know, credible coach, and so let's leave it that. You know, let's leave it that way.

Please, it's a great it's a great question, stup. So Number one, I think that the preciple role of an agent in business, whether you a Hollywood agent or sports agent, is to negotiate contracts and something approximately seventy percent of all the contracts in the NBA today are not negotiated at all. If you're win Bayama and you're coming in the league as the number one pick or Cooper Flag, there's no negotiations. As a weight scale. If you're a great player like Lebron or kerg, Kevin Durant, luc and Donsis, there's no negotiations. There's a maximum. If you're an average player, most of the teams are pretty well capped. There are mid level exceptions, bi annual exceptions, there are minimums, and so the roll of an agent has been dramatically curtailed by the rules. It's very hard to make an impact. If I can give you an example, So in my career, as I mentioned, I had two rookies who are the highest paid players of all time. I negotiated the first ever one hundred million dollar contract Balonza Morning in nineteen ninety five for one hundred and sixteen million dollars for thirteen years, and I made him turn it down. One year later, he signed for one hundred and five for seven. He would have played six years for free, and he thought I'd lost my mind when I told him to turn it down. That was dramatically higher. I negotiated contract the same year for Juwan Howard, who was a great friend and a great player. He made seventy percent moan than Chris Weber on the same team, playing the same position. They went to the same college. I couldn't do that today, I remember, you can't do it. So the ability to separate was like in football, a great receiver separates himself, That's how he captures the ball. In today's NBA, an agent can't separate himself. And that frustrates me. It takes away a lot of your creativity, a lot of the things that I did that enabled me. Now I was I was. I want to return the favorite of my friend Rich Paul. I was disappointed that Rich Paul mistakenly compared by comment about cherry picking, which means that you are you are picking where you want to go, which which your player has every right to do, is a free agent. To the fact that three of the greatest coaches in the history of college basketball, Dean Smith, John Thompson, and Coach pay recommended me to their players. And the reason he recommended me wasn't because they liked me. It's because our track record with the rookies was so superior to anyone else in the business that it was an easy decision for them. Now, if I can give you and your listeners an analogy to answer your first Pacific question, student, I think the greatest investor in the history of the United States was Warren Buffett, and he's also one of the richest men. Now, if the Securities Exchange Commission, which regulates investments, passed a rule and said no investment manager can get more than a six percent return, you know it's illegal to get more than six percent, he would turn Warren Buffett into a first year kid out of business school. I'll give you another example. Okay, I use this frequently. I'm going to take Lebron back to his days in Cleveland. Okay, early days, the NBA passes the rule they say no player could score more than twelve points a game. It's like fouling out. Once you had twelve, you got to sit down. Now, Gollic Lebron James would score twelve points in the first three minutes of the game. He could literally go to a movie, come back and meet with his teammates, you know, after the game. So the season ends and he goes out to lunch with his teammate Matthew Dalla Vadovo, and he says, Dalli, what kind of year did you have? And Dallas says, average forty one minutes and twelve points a game, And how'd you do Lebron? Lebron say, will average three minutes and twelve points a game, and Dallas says, well, I guess we both the same kind of players because the rules have homogenized Lebron's ability to be Lebron. And that's what the agent business, in my opinion, has become. So I was intrigued when the current MVP shake Gilgos Alexander decided to represent himself. And while I think that there are many reasons that shake yogis Alexander needs an agent, he may want to get traded, he may be having problems with the team. And there's a famous expression, Steven that a lawyer who represents himself has a full for a client. And so it's very difficult to walk in and say I should be you know, I don't want to be here. That's why you need third party people. But I think that the I think that a lot of great players are going to do what Kevin Durant did with Rich Climbing a little bit what Lebron did with with Maverick Carter and have one person as sort of like their business manager, because the role of the negotiations has to climb. Now, the other part that's critically important is marketing, and you know, I think that, you know, I find of thing with Aaron Goodwin. I think Aaron at one point had Lebron, Dwight Howard, Kevin Durant, and Horford. He did an amazing job for those guys in marketing. He got Lebron a one hundred million dollar deal with Nike as a rookie, got a big deal for Dwight Howard Royalties. I think, you know, I think he's and I think there's a very very important role for the star players to have someone off the court. But as I said at the conference, if I were coming out of law school today, based on the state of the Union of the sports world, I would definitely want to be in sports, but I probably would not want to be an agent. I almost definitely would not want to be an agent. And that's why this spring, when my last client, Otto Porter Junior, retired, I've let it run out. I don't want to sign any more players. I love basketball, love what it's done for me. I am humbled by the fact that some fourteen Hall of Fame players have the trust of their careers for me, including the Goat. Everyone knows you know how important that relationship has been in my life. I would expand that include Patrick coach Thompson, who's the number one John Thompson in my books. You know, if you read my book The Ball Truth, John Thompson was the most influential man in my life. Not the most influential coach, not the most influential client, the most influent. I learned so much from John that he should have been and so I've been privileged to work for the best of the brightest, privileged to meet people who are great their profession, like you, I admire what you've done in your career since we've known each other from the time they were cub Report in Philly. And I want to end by saying this is not this you know, last thing I want to say in the day Magic Isaiah Mark mc guire her boy, and so I really like represented by a guy and Charlie Talker. He was a fun guy. I like Charlie and our guys they were more urban guys. Our guys all came, as Rich pointed out, from Carolina, Duke, Georgetown, Kansas, you know. And the coaches basically gave us the players. They didn't do it to do us a favor. They didn't do it because they had any benefit. They did it because they wanted their players to make the most money that they could. And it was sort of like it was like the Bloods and the Crips. They were sold a little competition or in the All Star Game in eighty five, I would name names some of the players from that group try to incruit Michael to leave us and can go with Charlie Tucker, and Michael was really offended because he's such an incredibly loyal person and so It's not a battle between Michael and Lebron. I think that two of the greatest players in history, not necessarily the two greatest players, two of the greatest players in history. Lebron's earned my respect, you know, a long time ago, and if I say anything that offended him, I would publicly apologize. Not my intent, I think it. As Michael correctly points out, maybe it's a good way to end the discussion. It is almost impossible to could players from different eras. When Bill Russell won eleven titles, there are only eight teams in the league. When UCLA won all those championships in a row, there was only sixteen teams in the In the NCAA tournament, it's a lot easier you start out in the sixteen today. Getting to the screen sixteen is a pretty good accomplishment for a lot of teams. But what I think separates Michael from every other player is not how many games you want or how many points he scored. It's the impact that he made on the game in so many different areas. As I mentioned earlier, being the first player to be a majority owner, the opportunities that he personally and individually created. You know, there was a whole a bunch of people Stephen after Jordan came to the league. It's like the search for the fountain of youth. They want to know, is Harold Miner nicknamed Baby Jordan? Was he going to be the next guy? Was Petty Hardaway going to be the next guy? At one point it was gonna be Ron Harper was going to be the next guy. And the truth is, they'll never be another Michael. They just won't. He came from an incredible family, two petam family, you know, credible coach, and so let's leave it that. You know, let's leave it that way.

Well, listen, we'll leave it that way. I mean, Michael Jordan is my goat as well. But that's no disrespect to Lebron James. There's no disrespect in being perceived as one of the top two players in the history of basketball or anything like that. But the bottom line is this, no matter how grateful we all are to have seen great players and have witnessed the greatness of gods like them, I've also been very, very grateful and very lucky to witness the greatness of you, my man. We go back decades and I appreciate all you've done to edify me and help me along the way in my career. And I'm honored to have had this conversation with you. David Falk. You're one of the best ever, so I really really appreciate you taking time out of your busy schedule to sit down with me and talk with me about this subject. Right, you take care of yourself. Okay, we'll talk, So thank you for your time.

Well, listen, we'll leave it that way. I mean, Michael Jordan is my goat as well. But that's no disrespect to Lebron James. There's no disrespect in being perceived as one of the top two players in the history of basketball or anything like that. But the bottom line is this, no matter how grateful we all are to have seen great players and have witnessed the greatness of gods like them, I've also been very, very grateful and very lucky to witness the greatness of you, my man. We go back decades and I appreciate all you've done to edify me and help me along the way in my career. And I'm honored to have had this conversation with you. David Falk. You're one of the best ever, so I really really appreciate you taking time out of your busy schedule to sit down with me and talk with me about this subject. Right, you take care of yourself. Okay, we'll talk, So thank you for your time.

Word jump, are very.

Word jump, are very.

Grateful, all right, my man, take care The one and only David Falk right here when the Stephen A. Smith Show of the digital areas of YouTube and of course our heart radio.

Grateful, all right, my man, take care The one and only David Falk right here when the Stephen A. Smith Show of the digital areas of YouTube and of course our heart radio.

Yeah,

Yeah,