The Stephen A. Smith ShowInterview: CNN Legal Analyst says Diddy is battling the toughest court district in New York.
Stephen A. Smith is a New York Times Bestselling Author, Executive Producer, host of ESPN's First Take, and co-host of NBA Countdown. Stephen A. interviews CNN Legal Analyst Elie Honig about the latest accuser, Thalia Graves, in the Sean “P. Diddy Combs” criminal case.
Let's get to the latest on Sean Diddy Combs, who's currently sitting in a federal jail awaiting trial on sex trafficking and racketeering charges. Yesterday, a new accuser went public with more accusations against the music mogul. Talia Graves claims in a civil lawsuit that Combs in a bodyguard, drugged, bound, and raped her in two thousand and one and filmed the incident. Graves is represented by famed litigator Gloria Already, who is no stranger to representing women in high profile cases. Okay, here's a list we're speaking of Gloria already here. Okay, here's a list of just some of the women she's represented in the past.
Look at this list right here.
O J.
Simpson trial, Remember that Scott Peterson trial, Tiger Woods scandal, Bill Cosby scandal, Anthony Ween a former representative out of New York, Remember that all of that stuff happened. That's who she's represented. Already represented Amber Fry, the girlfriend of Scott Peterson who was convicted of killing his wife an unborn son. The most Notably, she represented more than half of the fifty plus women who've accused Bill Cosby of rape and molestation. As for Sean P. D. D. Combs, he's pleaded not guilty the charges that he led a criminal enterprise that abused women. Look, I've already been in the mindset that the brother's in trouble, deep deep trouble, as in never seeing the light of day as a free man again. It's really, really that serious. I don't think it's an exaggeration. That's number one. Number two. Everybody's sitting up there talking about Gloria already right now involved in the incident because there's money to be made, okay, And the reality is is that if you've got a situation where you've got tape, you've got audio, etc. Against this man, it's something that could come back to haunt you. We can't ignore that reality, all right. Then you've got to take into account the fact that him being in a federal prison, him being in jail right now, being held without bond, wasn't allowed bail even though he's got one more appeal available to him, The chances of him pulling that off of Slim to Nune. Okay, Now you've got Hollywood up in.
Arms and incredibly nervous.
Why Because everybody's wondering whether or not their name is gonna get mentioned.
And for that, my condolence is kick in.
And here's the reason why. You could have gone to a Diddy party. But there's a Diddy party, and there was a Diddy.
After party, and the after party is where these quote unquote freak offs were taking place. What if you never went to them?
What if you just went to the party and then your left at a reasonable hour like most people do, and you went home and went about your business and did.
Your own thing. But while you at the party, you took a picture.
While you were at the party, you were drinking, you were hanging out, you were socialized and fratnizing, having a good time. Based on how so many people are acting, you never know what level of incrimination could come.
Associated with you.
And here's where it gets interesting. We're talking about Hollywood. So the image is what it's all about, not just the reality. If the images of you taking pictures and party and having a good time and you gotta drink in your hand and a cigar in your mouth, or whatever the case may be, but you did absolutely nothing wrong. Optics matter in Hollywood more so than most places. So I can understand why so many people are nervous. Ain't necessarily nervous because they're guilty. They're nervous because of the association and what it potentially implies and how it can be used to compromise their earning potential.
That's the world that exists.
In Hollywood, and that's what makes this so unfortunate. Having said that, nothing, absolutely nothing pertaining that those folks in terms of optics, comes anywhere near close to the kind of danger Diddy is in joining me.
Now to discuss the latest on a federal case against Sean P. Diddy.
Combs is Eli Honing, a former prosecutor for the Southern District of.
New York, where did he will be tried.
He's also a senior legal analyst for CNN who provides commentary.
On criminal justice and national security.
Ellie, thanks for taking time out of your busy schedule to join the show, man.
Thank you so much. How you doing.
Glad to be here with you, Steven, I go way back, man. I'm a South Jersey kid.
I'm from Cherry Hall. I remember reading you in the Inquirer way back, so it's great to be with you.
Well.
Thank you so much, man. I really appreciate it. Let's get right to it. Talia Graves is the eleventh accused to count that eleventh accuser, but the first to come public against P Diddy. How damaging is this case? Is this for his case?
Actually?
This is bad news for Shawn Comes anyway you look at this, Steven, Look, I'm gonna let you in on a little prosecutor secret. We all read the media, and there's two reasons for that. One of them is prosecutors are vain. We want to know what's being said about us or we're getting good press or bad press. But the other reason is we want to see what's going out on out there. You get leads, you get evidence for your cases from civil suits that are filed from media reporting. And I guarantee you if prosecutors is not already spoken with me, they are going to be speaking with her now because what they're trying to do in this case is put together an overwhelming body of evidence.
And to do that you need as many victims as you can get.
This is why when the US Attorney announced the case last week, he said, if you believe you may be a victim in this case or a witness, get in touch with us. I've done human trafficking sex trafficking cases like this, Stephen, and it is not at all uncommon. In the days and weeks after you have unveil and indictment like this, you will find more people. More people will come forward. They're trying to bolster their case and this could help them.
There.
I was gonna ask the question, what kind of impact does former girlfriend Cassie Ventora's lawsuit have on a federal case?
But based on what you just articulated.
I'm imagining that contributes to the prosecutor's case.
It gets showing p Diddy Combes correct.
Oh, for sure.
It's pretty clear if you look at the indictment of Sean Combes that the Cassie Ventura allegations are front and center. It looks like at least one of the counts is based entirely on her allegations that she made in the lawsuit. We've all seen the vid of Shawn Combs viciously attacking her in that hotel hallway. She is going to be a key victim. A real important question though, is are there other victims? And if so, how many are there now? Shawn Combs is defense lawyer Mark Agnifolow appeared on CNN last week with Kaitlyn Collins. I was on right after and Agnifilo Shawn's Combs's lawyer said, well, the government, the prosecutors say they have fifty victims and witnesses. But I think that's one victim, Cassidy and forty nine witnesses. Now, I said on air to Caitlin, I think that's wrong. You wouldn't say that as a prosecutor. You wouldn't say you have fifty if it was one in forty nine. But it is crucial that prosecutors identify more victims. And if these new allegations can lead them to a second, or third or fourth victim, then that's what prosecutors are.
In the business to do. And you build your case.
You try to give the jury such a massive evidence that they have no choice but to find them guilty.
Kelly helped me out here.
One of the things that I've been mentioning is a guy that was born in the Bronx.
Raised in the streets of Hollis Queens, New York City.
I mean, you hear about somebody getting arrested, you hear about them getting indicted, You see local police, you see prosecutors and.
That's that to me.
What stands out in my mind in this case, the raid on his home by Homeland.
Security, the arrest, etc.
The fact that Homeland Security is the one that has come fi Diddy. Could you explain whether there's any significance to that at all, and if there is, specify why it's so significant that this is Homeland Security that we're talking about where they came after him with these federal charges.
Yeah, that's a great question.
So when people think of federal law enforcement agents, they think first and often only of the FBI. But what people may not realize is there are dozens of federal law enforcement agencies out there, and a big one is Homeland Security. I know from my own experience Homeland Security specializes in human trafficking and sex trafficking cases at the federal level.
FBI does it too.
But when I did my biggest sex trafficking case involved thirty defendants and we had seventy some victims a back a decade and a half ago.
The federal agents on that case we're Homeland Security.
So it doesn't mean there's some immigration issue happening because people often associate that with Homeland Security. They just happened to be one of the federal agencies that specialize in this kind of case. And you know, the search warrant is crucial. I mean, they had to go to a judge, prosecutors and agents and show we have probable cause that a crime was committed and that we're going to find evidence in whatever we sees. The phones, we know they found guns, dismantled guns, high caliber guns. That kind of stuff has made its way into the case and it's one of the big reasons that Seawan Colmes is behind bars right now because prosecutors said, look what we found when we went into his place. All these firearms, these ammunition, I think they've recovered at various times, certain drugs, narcotics, and the phones now are just a jackpot of evidence.
I mean, you get so much off of phones now too.
What exactly did they find in this home? You talked about guns, you talked about drugs, what else? I remember what they talked about, surveillance tapes, phones, emails, etc. Could you crystallize for my audience just to as specific as you can get what they have actually found in his homes in Los Angeles and Miami.
When they rated it.
Yeah, So there were firearms. There were various firearms.
Some of them had the serial numbers obliterated, meaning scratched off, which you see quite often because that makes it a federal crime.
Right there, I believe they found drugs. I'm not quite sure if I remember that.
Right. Look, they found phones and laptops all over the place. When I was starting as a prosecutor twenty years ago, you had to pull information from You had to go get the person's emails, you had to maybe get the physical paper documents. Now you know how much information is on a phone. Everything is on a phone. It's the best possible information you can get. And then I guess I would say in a separate category, there was all sorts of sex paraphernalia, sex toys. The indictment talks about a thousand bottles of baby oil and lube. Now, look, having you know over the top sex parties, they call them freak offs. Any invited. That's not a cron nothing illegal about that. But the gist of the allegations is they would force women into these, they would threaten women afterwards, the allegations that you're talking about, that just came out. The woman says she was drugged and tied up and then raped, So it all is relevant.
And there was. Look, that's a lot of evidence to find in any search.
Work P Diddy and his team. I saw the lawyers on television. I think I saw one of them on a Chris Cuomo's show on News Nation. They were talking about at least a couple of lawyers were talking about how the argument to be made in favor of P Diddy, way as you might find his behavior reprehensible or something, there was nothing illegal, giving the impression that it was adult consent going on.
How plausible is that.
Argument considering the fact that Homeland Security and the Feds essentially making this case against him.
Well, that's definitely going to be the defense, Stephen. As you said, you can see it from the lawyers who are out there. What they're gonna argue is, look, he's a sex freak, but that's not a crime. The other thing they're gonna argue, and we've already heard this from Mark Agniffelow, one of the defensers, by the way, very good defense layer.
I mean, John Colins has a top shelf guy here. He's going to argue.
I think that a lot of this stuff that's been charged is not a federal crime. It's really just an assault for a domestic violence assault that's typically that's not a federal crime. The way it becomes federal here is because we have a Rico racketeering charge. So they're going to argue this is not federal criminal activity, this is a state crime.
And they're gonna argue a lot of this stuff would have been too old to charge federally.
But again, the Rico laws, which I used to use all the time, Steven I used to charge organized crime mafia families, they give prosecutors a massive advantage because you can charge things that would be state crimes. You can charge things that are too old. But I do think that's going to be the exact appeal. The jury's gonna hear, who knows when the trial is a year from now, give or take. I think they're gonna say, look, folks, he had these. Maybe you think they're unusual or unappealing sexual appetites, but that doesn't make him a criminal.
That's what you're gonna hear.
Names like Jeffrey Epstein, R Kelly.
I even heard somebody last week bring up Bill Cosby for crying out loud I mean, all of these names have been brought up.
All three ended up in jailed.
In the case of Jeffrey Epstein, supposedly there was a suicide that took place while he was incarcerated. Considering the fact that jail time was the end result for individuals like that, does that make it more probable that there will be jail time for p Diddy?
Well, I think there's also a warning within those names you gave me. Bill Cosby right now is a free man because prosecutors overreached in the way they prosecuted this case. The Pennsylvania Supreme Court actually threw out his conviction.
He did three or four years behind bars.
Harvey Weinstein also looked a sexual predator, was convicted and then one of his convictions was thrown out six months or so ago because prosecutors also misstepped. There so a lot of pressure on prosecutors here. But if we're looking at Sean Combs's case, it's early. We don't have all the facts. We have a lot in the indictment, and there was other paperwork that was submitted. I'll just say this, it does not look good for Sean Combs, and I'll tell you why. One you do not want to be prosecuted by the Southern District of New York. I say that as an alum of that office. But that office is famous for being aggressive and for winning its cases.
Just recently, they convicted Sam bankmin freed.
They convicted Senator Robert Menendez, even though he's the Jersey Senator. That office has a long history of convicting high profile cases. The other thing is the penalties he's looking at, Stephen are through the roof. If he's convicted on the forcible sex trafficking of Cassie, he is looking at a fifteen year mandatory minimum minimum. And I know sometimes you'll hear, oh, so and so got sentenced to let's say twenty years in prison, but then two and a half years later they're released.
That's in the state system.
In the federal system, there's no parole, there's no early release. If you get sentence to let's say fifteen years in prison, the only reduction you can get is fifteen percent off for a good time in prison. So if Shawn Combs gets convicted on that count, he has to do fifteen years minus fifteen percent, So let's say thirteen years behind bars. He's fifty four years old and it could be more than that as well.
Wow.
Former death Row Records head sug Knight was on Cuoma News Nation last night. I want you to listen to these explosive claims.
Okay, if you have a guy named Kebby he used to work with in the Still is God's job was to bring from the age girdles and girls.
And have six Do you think Diddy knows enough that it's a very delicate balance that maybe investigators will want to know these other names and greatly reduce his exposure to criminality to time versus what people would do to keep him quiet.
Number one, I've been knowing him a long time and we was France. We not eighty means, but we were friends. He tell me. So, he's smart enough to work. He's magic.
On top of heck gets many right in here. E've been involved with the FBI.
Of his career. Can he got powerful people?
I don't expect you to comment on the veracity of those statements, because how could we possibly confirm that.
However, hearing something like that.
How does a prosecute to use that nugget of information to the advantage?
Ellie, That's what I'm wondering about let me tell you.
My thought process, and I just saw that for the first time. But if I'm back in the prosecutor's office number one, there's no way in hell I'm calling sug Knight as a witness at the track.
Can you imagine right?
Believe this guy?
I will say, I've.
Called way worse people than sug Knight as witness is cooperators. But like I said in the beginning, Stephen, you're always watching what's being said because you can always develop a lead off that maybe you could say, Okay, who could Shug Night be talking about here? Who are some of these people who would bring in girls? If you haven't already identified them, Go find those people.
Listen.
I wouldn't even necessarily say I'm not even going to talk to Sugar now. He's never gonna be a witness for me, but I may give it a shot, or send an FBI agent or Homeland Security agent out to say, who are you talking about? Do you want give us names here? Because we want to find these people. But the thing you're always doing is a prosecutor, Stephen is. Prosecutors are obsessed with corroboration. You want to back up every witness you can, whether they're a choir boy or sug night. You want to make sure that anything that gets set up on that stand is something you can back up with a document, with a piece of video, with another witness, that kind of thing.
So I think that's what I would do with that with that clip.
When you bring up the Southern District of New York, you're in the lum you know. You know how lethal this department. This department is. I mean, their reputation definitely precedes them. And I say that in a very positive way of somebody who wants criminals off the streets.
You know, it's the Southern District of New York. It is what it is. I ask you this.
Question in all honesty, when we talk about them buffering their case, per se, one would give them.
One would get the impression.
The case obviously has to be prosecuted, but it's already been made in the court of public opinion. I know that doesn't ultimately convict you, but it does stand to influence jurors potentially. I'm wondering, why do you find yourself having to make the case when one would see you raiding the homes in Miami in Los Angeles and then ultimately dis arrest took place months later. One would surmise, you already got your case. It's Diddy that has got to defend himself because right now he looks guilty as hell.
So two things.
First of all, you will every time you see a prosecutor make an announcement from a podium, whether it's the Attorney General of the United States, the DA of whatever county, they will always say these words, our investigation is ongoing, and a lot of times, honestly, Stephen, it's just boiler plate. The investigation is basically done. But it's clear here this one is ongoing. I mean, we've already seen reporting that there's new witnesses going into grand jury, and good prosecutors know your investigation is not over until that jury comes back.
With a verdict.
Now, from Sean Combs's perspective, it's important to keep in mind, you know, again, another thing he gets said every press conference.
He is presumed innocent until proven guilty. A defendant never technically has to put on a defense.
He doesn't have to say no, no, no, folks, and the jury they've got it wrong. Here's what actually happened, right a defendant can just play the burden of proof game and say, folks, they failed to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt, therefore you must find him not guilty. That said, as you noted, it's very different when you have such a high profile person like Sean Combs. He has clearly not taken the strategy. It's not like him to just say I'm going to sit back and just sort of poke holes. He's on the affirmative, he's on the aggressive. That's why you've seen his lawyers on TV. But let me tell you the stats aren't good for him. I mean, if you look at the historical data, ninety five plus percent of people in the federal system, defendants plead guilty, and of those who go to trial in the Southern District of New York, easily eighty plus percent end up getting givicted. It is really really hard to roll the.
Dice and beat the Sdmy, what do we just surmise from him being denied bail not once but twice.
Well, first of all, it's a practical better means he's going to be in He's going to be behind bars until the trial happens, which, like I said before, you're looking at a year or so, he has one more shot. He's going to take it to the Court of Appeals, but that's one in a thousand that he gets that. It makes it much harder to prepare your defense, right your your lawyers have to wait in the line at the prison before they get in. You know, you don't have access to the outside world. So it is a handicap when it comes to actually preparing your defense. And Steven, I mean the MDC where Combs is being held now, the Metropolitan Detentions that are over in Brooklyn. I've been there many times because one of the things you do as a prosecutors you're talking to witnesses, people who might flip. I mean in a secure area. I'm not going to walk into general population. You know, that would get a guy killed. But I've spent a lot of time in there. And let me tell you, I don't know if you've ever had the misfortune of going into a prison to visit somebody or something like that. I've been to. You know, I don't know more prisons than I can remember. That is probably the worst. It's the worst federal facility for sure that I've been in. I mean, it is over crowded.
Us to getting ready to ask you what makes it so bad? When crystallize for my audience this prison that he's in in Brooklyn, New York. I've heard numerous folks say it's one of, if not the worst.
Why is it so bad?
Okay?
First of all, there used to be two prisons serving the New York area, one of Manhattan won in Brooklyn. The one of Manhattan is now closed, so all those inmates. It is crazy overcrowded. Second of all, if you've been to prisons, a lot of them are on acres and acres of land, forty acres you know whatever.
Thirty acres This is in Brooklyn. I mean it's basically like half a block, so it's incredibly cramped. It's claustrophobic. Man.
When I go in there, Stephen, when I come out, I'm gasping for air, like I'm a little claustrophobic.
It is.
It is dangerous.
There have been three or four, I think murders or suicides in there in the last couple of years.
It's filthy.
There's when I've been in there, there's been like a mystery liquid. I don't even want to know what it is. Dripping down off the walls. It's too hot in the summer, it's too cold in the winter. And just give you a sense of this, there have actually been federal judges who have reduced sentences or let people out on bail because they've said the MDC is.
Such a hellhole.
I'm paraphrasing, because the MDC is such a hellhole. I'm gonna cut a little time off this guy's sentence. So it is nothing like any Shawn Combs has ever seen before.
Yet they've taken seam p Diddy Combes, who last time I checked, is worth at least a half of billion dollars, and they've placed him in this facility where you one could argue you had the luxury.
Of putting him somewhere else.
Should we make anything of the fact that they've placed him.
There, No, because that's where any defendant in the Southern District of New York or Eastern District of New York would be housed. I believe I've seen reporting that he's in a separate unit that's meant to protect certain inmates. I've been in that unit. Understandably, right, he would be in danger, I mean, you know, for I mean he's a huge celebrity, he's incredibly rich, he being all sorts of danger if he was in general population. There's actually a report that he is bunk mates or the house closely with Sam Bankman Freed. So another guy worth a lot of money who would not do well in normal population. But I mean, the Federal Bureau of Prisons doesn't really care who.
You are or what you are. They're gonna put you where they're gonna put you.
And because he's got to be in New York for his ongoing proceedings, he's going to be in the MDC.
I mean, I guess they can move him.
There's some facilities up north a bit, but you generally want to keep him as close to the courthouse as possible because you're gonna have to transport him back and forth every time.
He's got a quarter pairs.
I saw one report talking about he was on suicide watch. I don't know whether that's believable or not. But based on what you're describing the facility to be like one would one would surmise that's not that unreasonable, and that's not too low, that's not too ridiculous of an assertion considering the kind of climate he is in. What do you think, if anything at all, they're doing to secure his You know that he doesn't have the ability to harm himself.
The last agency I'm going to vouch for is the Federal Bureau of Prisons.
They have a horrible wreck of keeping their inmates safe.
Jeffrey Epstein, by the way, was on suicide watch when he died in prison. What that means, by the way, is that this is a person we have some concern about, and there's extra cautions taken. I don't know the exact details, but they check on the person more often through the night. They will reduce that person's ability to have like sheets and things that you might hang yourself with. You already can't have shoelaces and that kind of thing. But it shows me that they're concerned about losing him that they want to It doesn't necessarily mean he's had suicidal ideation or said anything. It could be that, but it just means he's someone that they need to keep a closer eye. But the Bureau of Prison, Steven, I mean, it is a nightmarage bureaucracy there.
I get it.
They're short staff, they don't have great funding, they have an impossible task, but there is a long history of failures by the Bureau of Prisons.
How much Tom is p Diddy Cohone's looking at overall? I know you brought up the fifteen years for the cass into at situation alone. What are we really really talking about, Ellie when we look at this case, you know, drafficking, racketeering, What are we really looking at for in.
A normal case? What you do is you start thinking, where's the plea going to be? Because, like I said, ninety five plus percent of federal cases reach a plea, and so it's like any other negotiation in the world. Where where are they going to be able to find a middle ground. I don't see that here, I really don't. I don't see Seawn Holmes being willing to plead to, let's say, a lesser charge and agreeing to seven eight years.
I don't know the man. I can't speak for him, but to me that seems unlikely.
On the flip side, I don't see prosecutors in a mood to give much leniency, and so I do think this is headed towards a trial. You never know what's going to happen at trial, but odds are just mathematically, empirically, he's likely to be convicted, and if that.
Happens, it will be fifteen years or higher. I mean he could get twenty.
Who know, the max is life, But just a little advanced tip here, Always focus on the minimum. The minimum is way more important than the maximum. Very few people, except for in murders, get the maximum. But look, Shawn Holmes, I mean there's a realistic chance Stephen. I heard you say recently, like there's a chance that he will never be free again. You are right, there is a reasonable chance he's never free again.
M Could it be that they're waiting for him to flip and get and and and and point out some others as well, that they're not after just him. They want to put this this ordinate amount of stuff on his shoulders to get him to make a deal and and and and be an informant on others.
So that's such an interesting question. I thought about this.
But the thing with cooperation is you need to you need both sides. I don't I mean, Shawn Holmes has to be willing to do that, and the fans have to be willing to sign him up. But the thing is, you, as a prosecutor You're not going to sign up a leader, a boss just to give you a bunch of smaller fish. That's not how you do it. You want to work up. We used to say you want to cooperate up the ladder, not down. When I was doing mob cases, I wouldn't flip some capo, you know, a high ranking guy to give me some soldiers and associates below him. I would flip the low guys to work up. And that's how they do it generally here. So the question I would have is if he's willing and if he has info, who's he gonna give me. If all he's gonna give me is his guys, the people who should Knight refer to the runners, his employees, that's of no interest to me. He's gonna have to give me a large, important target in order for me to even consider cooperating him as a prosecutor.
Elie Honink, excellent job, by the way, Man, really really appreciate it. Thank you so much for educating us on this case. Man, I definitely will reach back out to you soon. You take it easier, right, Great to talk to you. Thanks Steven, all right one and only. Aleihnik, CNN analyst extraordinaire right here on the Steven Naismith Show, of the digital areas of YouTube, and of course iHeartRadio,
