Welcome to the latest edition of The Stephen A. Smith Show, coming at you over the digital airways of YouTube and of course iHeart Radio. As always, I want to take a moment to thank my subscribers and followers. We've now eclipsed over eight hundred and forty nine thousand subscribers and we continue to climb each and every single day, not to mention over three million downloads that have occurred on iHeartRadio. Can't thank y'all for the love and support enough, always eternally grateful for it. Please know that, Please know that on this particular day, if I see him a bit melancholy, if not downright sad, it's because of where We're getting started with some news out of Missouri, the state of Missouri, where the state executed a man whose murder conviction was questioned by a number of people, including the prosecutor himself. The victim's family also pushed for the man to be to not be executed. I'm talking about mister Marcellus Williams, who was fifty five years of age who died by lethal injection yesterday around six pm Central time. He was convicted in two thousand and one of feeling Felicia Lisha Gale, a former newspaper reporter, found stabbed to death in her home in nineteen ninety eight. Williams case drew national headlines as his attorneys appealed the conviction based on what they described as new evidence, evidence that included alleged bias, in jury selection, and contamination of the murder weapon. Prior to the trial, The family of Felicia Gale even asked that Williams be spared death. However, the US Supreme Court denied the stay of execution yesterday, a day after Missouri's Supreme Court and Governor Mike Parson refused to grant a stay as well. The Supreme Court offered no explanation for its decision. However, in the third appeal, Justices Sonya Sotomayor, Alana Kagan, and Katanji Brown Jackson all said they would have granted the request to pause the execution. Before as death, Williams wrote a final handwritten statement seen here that reads, Coute all praise be to Allah in every situation end quote. This is a very alarming situation, and as far as I'm concerned, any human being should speak out against it, but especially if you're black. This black man was murdered yesterday. It's call it what it is. It's murder. There's no excuse for it. And I'm gonna tell you why. If there's DNA evidence that contradicts what prosecutors asserted that led to a conviction, that's a valid point to stay in execution. If the prosecutor himself herself themselves acknowledge that based on evidence that can now be refuted, this should be a stay of execution. That's another reason not to execute the man. If a former governor, as in Governor Eric Critons Critens g r E te Ns Eric Crichtons, he is the predecessor of Governor Might Parson. He granted Williams a reprieve. He was persuaded by arguments that new DNA evidence, new DNA testing exonerated Williams. He did that years ago. Remember, Williams was twice bard from execution, first by the State Supreme Court in twenty fifteen and then in twenty seventeen. So let's get this straight. Governor Passes is ignoring a ruling by the Supreme Court, the State Supreme Court from nine years ago. He's ignoring a ruling by his predecessor from seven years ago. He's ignoring prosecutors, he's ignoring DNA evidence, and on top of it all, the victim's family didn't want him execute it. Now, according to reports, and I'm about to speak to somebody to find out whether or not they can verify this or not, the victim's family was against capital punishment, no matter why. But nevertheless, look at that preponderance of evidence. Think about that for a second and think about the kind of stuff that we're talking about. How could you possibly justify executing this man? To this day, we don't have a justifiable explanation from Governor Parson because the board that was supposed to investigate the matter in hand down and ruling was something that was disbanded by him. Did you just want to kill a black man? I mean, it's a legitimate question to be asked. Is it all right that you just murdered him? Is it okay that he was potentially innocent and you didn't give it? Damn? Because the word potential doesn't matter to you. What was it? What was it? I mean, you talk about some nonsense right here. This is why we have a country that's so divided. This is why we have a country that looks at things in two different ways, because you can't come together on a dead thing. Who can't come together on this when you got a prosecutor, when you have evidence, when you have a former governor, when you have the state Supreme Court all giving a ruling in favor of staying in execution, and you still say, bump that the man dies and have him killed by the state via lethal injection in front of his family. When a man proclaimed his innocence and stayed that way for over twenty years, and you do it anyway. You don't give a shit, you don't care. I'm not one of these people, ladies and gentlemen that's diametrically opposed to capital punishment. I'm one of those people. Depending on how hanus the crime, and it's finite and definitive that you are guilty, particularly if no contrition or no remorse was shown. I have no problem with you dying zero zero, but only under those conditions. If there's a sentilla of doubt, a sentilla of doubt, you don't do what Governor Parson did. And to do something like that and to make this decision, it's criminal. It is an absolute crime, and I can't even tell you how sad I am for Marcellus William's family because he went to his death proclaiming his innocence, and he had an abundance of people and institutions supporting him, and the governor of Missouri didn't give a damn. You might you might be able to sleep well at night right now, sir, because you appear to have no conscience. We'll see how long that lasts and whether or not that truly comes back to haunt you someday. We'll see, we'll see. Joining me now is mister Jonathan Potts, Marcellus Williams's attorney at the BCPL in Saint Louis, who fought to stay his execution. Thank you for joining us, Jonathan. I really really appreciate you taking the time take us through the last twenty four to forty eight hours in your efforts to stay the execution of mister Williams. Please.

Welcome to the latest edition of The Stephen A. Smith Show, coming at you over the digital airways of YouTube and of course iHeart Radio. As always, I want to take a moment to thank my subscribers and followers. We've now eclipsed over eight hundred and forty nine thousand subscribers and we continue to climb each and every single day, not to mention over three million downloads that have occurred on iHeartRadio. Can't thank y'all for the love and support enough, always eternally grateful for it. Please know that, Please know that on this particular day, if I see him a bit melancholy, if not downright sad, it's because of where We're getting started with some news out of Missouri, the state of Missouri, where the state executed a man whose murder conviction was questioned by a number of people, including the prosecutor himself. The victim's family also pushed for the man to be to not be executed. I'm talking about mister Marcellus Williams, who was fifty five years of age who died by lethal injection yesterday around six pm Central time. He was convicted in two thousand and one of feeling Felicia Lisha Gale, a former newspaper reporter, found stabbed to death in her home in nineteen ninety eight. Williams case drew national headlines as his attorneys appealed the conviction based on what they described as new evidence, evidence that included alleged bias, in jury selection, and contamination of the murder weapon. Prior to the trial, The family of Felicia Gale even asked that Williams be spared death. However, the US Supreme Court denied the stay of execution yesterday, a day after Missouri's Supreme Court and Governor Mike Parson refused to grant a stay as well. The Supreme Court offered no explanation for its decision. However, in the third appeal, Justices Sonya Sotomayor, Alana Kagan, and Katanji Brown Jackson all said they would have granted the request to pause the execution. Before as death, Williams wrote a final handwritten statement seen here that reads, Coute all praise be to Allah in every situation end quote. This is a very alarming situation, and as far as I'm concerned, any human being should speak out against it, but especially if you're black. This black man was murdered yesterday. It's call it what it is. It's murder. There's no excuse for it. And I'm gonna tell you why. If there's DNA evidence that contradicts what prosecutors asserted that led to a conviction, that's a valid point to stay in execution. If the prosecutor himself herself themselves acknowledge that based on evidence that can now be refuted, this should be a stay of execution. That's another reason not to execute the man. If a former governor, as in Governor Eric Critons Critens g r E te Ns Eric Crichtons, he is the predecessor of Governor Might Parson. He granted Williams a reprieve. He was persuaded by arguments that new DNA evidence, new DNA testing exonerated Williams. He did that years ago. Remember, Williams was twice bard from execution, first by the State Supreme Court in twenty fifteen and then in twenty seventeen. So let's get this straight. Governor Passes is ignoring a ruling by the Supreme Court, the State Supreme Court from nine years ago. He's ignoring a ruling by his predecessor from seven years ago. He's ignoring prosecutors, he's ignoring DNA evidence, and on top of it all, the victim's family didn't want him execute it. Now, according to reports, and I'm about to speak to somebody to find out whether or not they can verify this or not, the victim's family was against capital punishment, no matter why. But nevertheless, look at that preponderance of evidence. Think about that for a second and think about the kind of stuff that we're talking about. How could you possibly justify executing this man? To this day, we don't have a justifiable explanation from Governor Parson because the board that was supposed to investigate the matter in hand down and ruling was something that was disbanded by him. Did you just want to kill a black man? I mean, it's a legitimate question to be asked. Is it all right that you just murdered him? Is it okay that he was potentially innocent and you didn't give it? Damn? Because the word potential doesn't matter to you. What was it? What was it? I mean, you talk about some nonsense right here. This is why we have a country that's so divided. This is why we have a country that looks at things in two different ways, because you can't come together on a dead thing. Who can't come together on this when you got a prosecutor, when you have evidence, when you have a former governor, when you have the state Supreme Court all giving a ruling in favor of staying in execution, and you still say, bump that the man dies and have him killed by the state via lethal injection in front of his family. When a man proclaimed his innocence and stayed that way for over twenty years, and you do it anyway. You don't give a shit, you don't care. I'm not one of these people, ladies and gentlemen that's diametrically opposed to capital punishment. I'm one of those people. Depending on how hanus the crime, and it's finite and definitive that you are guilty, particularly if no contrition or no remorse was shown. I have no problem with you dying zero zero, but only under those conditions. If there's a sentilla of doubt, a sentilla of doubt, you don't do what Governor Parson did. And to do something like that and to make this decision, it's criminal. It is an absolute crime, and I can't even tell you how sad I am for Marcellus William's family because he went to his death proclaiming his innocence, and he had an abundance of people and institutions supporting him, and the governor of Missouri didn't give a damn. You might you might be able to sleep well at night right now, sir, because you appear to have no conscience. We'll see how long that lasts and whether or not that truly comes back to haunt you someday. We'll see, we'll see. Joining me now is mister Jonathan Potts, Marcellus Williams's attorney at the BCPL in Saint Louis, who fought to stay his execution. Thank you for joining us, Jonathan. I really really appreciate you taking the time take us through the last twenty four to forty eight hours in your efforts to stay the execution of mister Williams. Please.

Yeah, there's been pretty much night fight that went on over the past forty eight hours or so. We were filing briefs over the weekend, with the Missouri Supreme Court arguing it on Monday morning, and then trying to get the US Supreme Court to hear the case. Ultimately, they declined and mister Williams was executed last night at about six pm.

Yeah, there's been pretty much night fight that went on over the past forty eight hours or so. We were filing briefs over the weekend, with the Missouri Supreme Court arguing it on Monday morning, and then trying to get the US Supreme Court to hear the case. Ultimately, they declined and mister Williams was executed last night at about six pm.

Who was in attendance for his execution?

Who was in attendance for his execution?

There were two members from our legal team as well as mister Williams's son, Marcellus Junior, who were there.

There were two members from our legal team as well as mister Williams's son, Marcellus Junior, who were there.

Witnesses Any members from the victims family and attendance? No, why did they not show up? Are you aware of the reasoning that they had or reasoning that they gave for not being in attendance.

Witnesses Any members from the victims family and attendance? No, why did they not show up? Are you aware of the reasoning that they had or reasoning that they gave for not being in attendance.

No, I don't know why they weren't there. I can imagine it's emotionally trying for them too. But the important thing to remember is that the victim's family was not in favor of executing mister Williams.

No, I don't know why they weren't there. I can imagine it's emotionally trying for them too. But the important thing to remember is that the victim's family was not in favor of executing mister Williams.

And why did they reach a conclusion that they were not in favor of this execution?

And why did they reach a conclusion that they were not in favor of this execution?

Specifically from the beginning they were honoring the wishes of the victim. I want to be clear, mister Williams is innocent, but the victim's family has always said that no matter what happened, the victim would not have wanted anyone to be executed. Her husband didn't want anyone to be executed, and her family didn't want anyone to be executed.

Specifically from the beginning they were honoring the wishes of the victim. I want to be clear, mister Williams is innocent, but the victim's family has always said that no matter what happened, the victim would not have wanted anyone to be executed. Her husband didn't want anyone to be executed, and her family didn't want anyone to be executed.

The prosecuted, if I remember correctly, had a change of thinking and they were and ultimately ended up being against the execution. Is that correct And if so, what was their reasoning irrationale behind it.

The prosecuted, if I remember correctly, had a change of thinking and they were and ultimately ended up being against the execution. Is that correct And if so, what was their reasoning irrationale behind it.

Yeah, it's even more than them just being against the execution. They were fighting to overturn the execution. We were having a trial last month where it wasn't even our team the defense team who filed it, but it was a new lawsuit filed by the prosecutor saying that this was an unfair and unconstitutional trial and that mister williams execution needed to be stopped.

Yeah, it's even more than them just being against the execution. They were fighting to overturn the execution. We were having a trial last month where it wasn't even our team the defense team who filed it, but it was a new lawsuit filed by the prosecutor saying that this was an unfair and unconstitutional trial and that mister williams execution needed to be stopped.

And they felt they it needed to be They needed the execution to be stopped because they believed that there was evidence that contradicted the guilty verdict.

And they felt they it needed to be They needed the execution to be stopped because they believed that there was evidence that contradicted the guilty verdict.

Absolutely so. From the beginning, they were forensic evidence that pointed away from mister Williams. They were bloody fingerprints, bloody footprints at the scene that didn't belong to him, didn't belong to the husband, didn't belong to the first responders. There was other forensic evidence of the scene pointing away. We found new DNA evidence on the murder weapon that didn't belong to mister Williams. And what further testing showed is that the DNA on the knife belonged to the original trial prosecutor twenty years ago, and he had contaminated the evidence, and it frankly prevented us from being able to find the DNA whoever was the real killer.

Absolutely so. From the beginning, they were forensic evidence that pointed away from mister Williams. They were bloody fingerprints, bloody footprints at the scene that didn't belong to him, didn't belong to the husband, didn't belong to the first responders. There was other forensic evidence of the scene pointing away. We found new DNA evidence on the murder weapon that didn't belong to mister Williams. And what further testing showed is that the DNA on the knife belonged to the original trial prosecutor twenty years ago, and he had contaminated the evidence, and it frankly prevented us from being able to find the DNA whoever was the real killer.

In what way was the evidence contaminated?

In what way was the evidence contaminated?

We put trial prosecutor from twenty years ago on the stand last month and we cross examined them, and he admitted that not once, not twice, but five times before trial he had handled the murder weapon, which was a bloody kitchen knife without gloves. He had been showing it to witnesses, just holding it, putting his DNA all over it and potentially wiping away any DNA from the actual killer.

We put trial prosecutor from twenty years ago on the stand last month and we cross examined them, and he admitted that not once, not twice, but five times before trial he had handled the murder weapon, which was a bloody kitchen knife without gloves. He had been showing it to witnesses, just holding it, putting his DNA all over it and potentially wiping away any DNA from the actual killer.

And still they went ahead with the execution. What rationale did the governor give for not paudoning him for not stay in this execution or anybody else for that matter.

And still they went ahead with the execution. What rationale did the governor give for not paudoning him for not stay in this execution or anybody else for that matter.

The governor just said that he had received due process and a decision had been made, and we obviously strongly disagree with that he didn't receive due process. What we also learned at the hearing last month is that the trial prosecutor admitted that he got rid of at least one juror in part because he's black. It was a devastating thing to hear, and that alone should stopped the execution, but it didn't.

The governor just said that he had received due process and a decision had been made, and we obviously strongly disagree with that he didn't receive due process. What we also learned at the hearing last month is that the trial prosecutor admitted that he got rid of at least one juror in part because he's black. It was a devastating thing to hear, and that alone should stopped the execution, but it didn't.

He got rid of one juror because the juror was black.

He got rid of one juror because the juror was black.

That is correct, Stephen what he said. I asked him when he was on the stand, and I said, you got rid of the juror because he was a young black man with glasses, And he said, wrong, that was part of the reason. It was because he also had piercing eyes.

That is correct, Stephen what he said. I asked him when he was on the stand, and I said, you got rid of the juror because he was a young black man with glasses, And he said, wrong, that was part of the reason. It was because he also had piercing eyes.

Wow. I'm thinking about the predecessor to the governor that's in office right now and how his predecessor decided to stay the execution years ago. So this governor didn't take that into consideration, evidently, and I'm wondering why that was the case. Again, I know I'm being a bit redundant and asking that question, but I find myself feeling a bit incredulous and just taking aback significantly by the fact that there was a prepondence of evidence. You've got a prosecutor that no longer supported the execution, you got the victim's family that didn't want the execution, you got DNA evidence that was compromised. You have a predecessor to the governor that's presently in office who stayed in execution, but somehow, some way, this governor decided to still go forward.

Wow. I'm thinking about the predecessor to the governor that's in office right now and how his predecessor decided to stay the execution years ago. So this governor didn't take that into consideration, evidently, and I'm wondering why that was the case. Again, I know I'm being a bit redundant and asking that question, but I find myself feeling a bit incredulous and just taking aback significantly by the fact that there was a prepondence of evidence. You've got a prosecutor that no longer supported the execution, you got the victim's family that didn't want the execution, you got DNA evidence that was compromised. You have a predecessor to the governor that's presently in office who stayed in execution, but somehow, some way, this governor decided to still go forward.

Yes, even the breadcrumbs were all there. I think any person who is following this case knows exactly what happened, and we received an outpouring of public support. Basically everyone that we've heard from has been against the execution except for the governor and the Missouri Attorney General. And I want to point out that what actually happened is that the prior governor stopped a prior execution just minutes before it was about to happen, to appoint a special board to look into mister Williams case. And then what happened is that Governor Parson actually disbanded that board before it ever gave them a recommendation about whether to give mister Williams a partner commutation of his sentence. Well, basically, he didn't hear the answer.

Yes, even the breadcrumbs were all there. I think any person who is following this case knows exactly what happened, and we received an outpouring of public support. Basically everyone that we've heard from has been against the execution except for the governor and the Missouri Attorney General. And I want to point out that what actually happened is that the prior governor stopped a prior execution just minutes before it was about to happen, to appoint a special board to look into mister Williams case. And then what happened is that Governor Parson actually disbanded that board before it ever gave them a recommendation about whether to give mister Williams a partner commutation of his sentence. Well, basically, he didn't hear the answer.

What was his explanation for disbanding that board?

What was his explanation for disbanding that board?

Didn't give one.

Didn't give one.

He didn't give one.

He didn't give one.

Yeah, I think enough time had passed and wasn't very interested in what he was going to hear how.

Yeah, I think enough time had passed and wasn't very interested in what he was going to hear how.

Many executions have taken place in the state of Missouri recent memory.

Many executions have taken place in the state of Missouri recent memory.

I believe that there are three executions this year, and I think it's eleven executions under the current governor.

I believe that there are three executions this year, and I think it's eleven executions under the current governor.

Under the current governor, how many of them has been black? Do you have an answer to that question?

Under the current governor, how many of them has been black? Do you have an answer to that question?

I don't know off the top of my head, Stephen, but your guess is probably a good one.

I don't know off the top of my head, Stephen, but your guess is probably a good one.

And where do you guys go from here? What have you learned or what do you take from a case such as this, because it has to be very debilitating, very very depressing, to be quite honest with you, To know that such a preponderance of evidence has been put in your favor to stay in execution, and you have the support, the inordinate amount of support that you received, and still the execution went through, it has to be incredibly disheartening. One would imagine.

And where do you guys go from here? What have you learned or what do you take from a case such as this, because it has to be very debilitating, very very depressing, to be quite honest with you, To know that such a preponderance of evidence has been put in your favor to stay in execution, and you have the support, the inordinate amount of support that you received, and still the execution went through, it has to be incredibly disheartening. One would imagine.

It's more than disheartening. You know, we obviously cared quite a bit about mister Williams. When someone's your client for many years and you're working to try and save their life, it carries a very very heavy emotional pull, and when you see that person put to death under unfair circumstances, you start to have doubts about the integrity of the judicial system. The important thing, though, is the reason that we take these cases on is we are trying to build public trust in the judicial system. And the only way that you build back public trust is when that system is willing to admit its errors. Right now, the system wants to say, pretend the errors didn't happen. People don't believe that everyone knows mistakes are made. The only way that you're going to have the public believe that they're getting a pair of trials is when you admit that a mistake was made, and you admit that mistake, you fix it, and you promise that it's never going to happen again. And that's not what happened here.

It's more than disheartening. You know, we obviously cared quite a bit about mister Williams. When someone's your client for many years and you're working to try and save their life, it carries a very very heavy emotional pull, and when you see that person put to death under unfair circumstances, you start to have doubts about the integrity of the judicial system. The important thing, though, is the reason that we take these cases on is we are trying to build public trust in the judicial system. And the only way that you build back public trust is when that system is willing to admit its errors. Right now, the system wants to say, pretend the errors didn't happen. People don't believe that everyone knows mistakes are made. The only way that you're going to have the public believe that they're getting a pair of trials is when you admit that a mistake was made, and you admit that mistake, you fix it, and you promise that it's never going to happen again. And that's not what happened here.

I'm thinking about the prosecutor admitting their mistake. I'm thinking about the preponderance of evidence that ultimately favored you staying the execution. And I'm thinking also about Governor Mike Parson, because that's his name, Mike Parson, literally not providing an explanation really as to why he was dogged in his decision to execute mister Williams. I think that what's incredibly alarming outside of the actual killing itself, please don't get me wrong. Is the fact that the governor hasn't been required to give an in depth explanation as to why he reached the decision that he reached.

I'm thinking about the prosecutor admitting their mistake. I'm thinking about the preponderance of evidence that ultimately favored you staying the execution. And I'm thinking also about Governor Mike Parson, because that's his name, Mike Parson, literally not providing an explanation really as to why he was dogged in his decision to execute mister Williams. I think that what's incredibly alarming outside of the actual killing itself, please don't get me wrong. Is the fact that the governor hasn't been required to give an in depth explanation as to why he reached the decision that he reached.

There was a board that was appointed for that specific purpose. They conducted an investigation for six years, and they were going to provide him with a report and recommendation. And like I said, he dissolved that board before their work was complete.

There was a board that was appointed for that specific purpose. They conducted an investigation for six years, and they were going to provide him with a report and recommendation. And like I said, he dissolved that board before their work was complete.

And by dissolving that board, they can't give us an explanation because they're in no position to do so. And he refuses to give an explanation because he's in a position as the governor to do just that. That's the only thing that any of us can surmise, Is that correct, Jonathan?

And by dissolving that board, they can't give us an explanation because they're in no position to do so. And he refuses to give an explanation because he's in a position as the governor to do just that. That's the only thing that any of us can surmise, Is that correct, Jonathan?

Yeah, it's up to Governor Parson whether he wants to explain that.

Yeah, it's up to Governor Parson whether he wants to explain that.

What does that leave the BCLP moving forward? I mean, when you talk about the reason for your existence is restoring faith. To have a situation where you have so much evidence in your favor and still come up short in staying this execution, where does that leave you moving forward?

What does that leave the BCLP moving forward? I mean, when you talk about the reason for your existence is restoring faith. To have a situation where you have so much evidence in your favor and still come up short in staying this execution, where does that leave you moving forward?

So here's the thing, Steven, I'm actually I'm a sports lawyer. What I've been doing in these cases is this is something that I do pro bone now in my career. So far, we've exonerated three people murder and mister Williams unfortunately was executed last night. But we are doing this because we are trying to bring faith back to the community in terms of understanding that the court system is there to protect us. And the important thing isn't that you get it over with, but that you get it right. And I want people to know that we are going to keep fighting to make sure that execute that people don't get executed for crimes that they don't commit. And I worry about our kids, I worry about each other, and you worry about whether we really have our values properly aligned when we want to just kill someone because it's been too long and he's been sitting around on death row for twenty years, so we need to get it open.

So here's the thing, Steven, I'm actually I'm a sports lawyer. What I've been doing in these cases is this is something that I do pro bone now in my career. So far, we've exonerated three people murder and mister Williams unfortunately was executed last night. But we are doing this because we are trying to bring faith back to the community in terms of understanding that the court system is there to protect us. And the important thing isn't that you get it over with, but that you get it right. And I want people to know that we are going to keep fighting to make sure that execute that people don't get executed for crimes that they don't commit. And I worry about our kids, I worry about each other, and you worry about whether we really have our values properly aligned when we want to just kill someone because it's been too long and he's been sitting around on death row for twenty years, so we need to get it open.

With Wow, Jonathan Potts, I really really appreciate your time. Thank you so much for joining the show, and I'm really really sorry for what the outcome ultimately ended up being. It certainly wasn't due to a lack of effort and due diligence and expertise on your part and that of the BCLP. I can assure you of that. So I thank you from the bottom of my heart, and I thank you for coming on the show. I really appreciate it.

With Wow, Jonathan Potts, I really really appreciate your time. Thank you so much for joining the show, and I'm really really sorry for what the outcome ultimately ended up being. It certainly wasn't due to a lack of effort and due diligence and expertise on your part and that of the BCLP. I can assure you of that. So I thank you from the bottom of my heart, and I thank you for coming on the show. I really appreciate it.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Take it easy. One of them Jonathan Pots right here on the Stephen A. Smith Show over the digital airwaves or YouTube, and of course iHeartRadio. It's a shame. You heard what he had to say. There's no excuse for this, and Governor Parses needs to be made to account for why he made this decision. I mean, his predecessor decided to stay the execution. The prosecutor acknowledged it. There were mistakes made, evidence was tampered with, et cetera, et cetera. There's no excuse for mister Williams being executed yesterday in light of that preponderance of evidence. When in doubt, preserving life should be the most important thing, more so than anything else, but that clearly was not the case in the state of Missouri yesterday thanks to Governor Mike Parson. What a shame. What a shame. Coming up, the latest on the federal sex trafficking and racketeering case against Sean Diddy Combs as a new accuser goes public with her attorney, Gloria all Read. I'll get into that and more next right here on the stephen A. Smith show back with more in a minute. I want to take a second to make sure everyone knows we're smack in the middle of the NFL season and I couldn't be more excited. And with games being played Thursday night, Sunday night, and Monday night, Prospects wants to help you cash in on all that big time action you see. Prospects is a daily fantasy act where you can pick two or more of your favorite players and then you simply select more or less on their projected stats for the game. Pick up player's rushing yards, passing yards, total touchdowns. The list is absolutely endless, and the best part is Prospects has something for every sports fan to sort of WNBA, MLB, MMA, even Golfer crying out loud, all in the same entry. I make my picks and submit early, all in less than sixty seconds. By the way, that's that's time that it takes for Drake London to take a pass from Kirk Cuzins all the way to the house and get this sign up with code sas and Prospects will give you fifty dollars instantly when you play your first five dollar lineup. You don't need to win your lineup to receive the fifty dollars bonus. It's guaranteed. All you have to do is play as a five dollar lineup on prospects and you'll get fifty dollars instantly. Pick more, pick less. It's really really that easy. Welcome back to stephen A. Smith's show. Now let's get to the latest on Sean Diddy Combs, who's currently sitting in a federal jail awaiting trial on sex trafficking and racketeering charges. Yesterday, a new accuser went public with more accusation against the music mogul. Talia Graves claims in a civil lawsuit that Combs in a bodyguard, drugged, bound, and raped her in two thousand and one and filmed the incident. Graves is represented by famed litigator Gloria Alred, who is no stranger to representing women in high profile cases. Okay, here's a list we're speaking of Gloria already here. Okay, here's a list of just some of the women she's represented in the past. Look at this list right here. O J Simpson trial Remember that Scott Peterson trial, Tiger Woods scandal, Bill Cosby scandal, Anthony Ween a former representative out of New York. Remember that all of that stuff happened. That's who she's represented. Already represented Amber Fry, the girlfriend of Scott Peterson who was convicted of killing his wife an unborn son. And most notably, she represented more than half of the fifty plus women who've accused Bill Cosby of rape and molestation. As for Sean P. D. D. Combs, he's pleaded not guilty the charges that he led a criminal enterprise that abused women. Look, I've already been in the mindset that the brother's in trouble, deep deep trouble, as in never seeing the light of day as a free man again. It's really really that serious. I don't think it's an exaggeration. That's number one. Number two. Everybody's sitting up there talking about Gloria already right now involved in the incident because there's money to be made, okay, And the reality is is that if you've got a situation where you've got tape, you've got audio, etc. Against this man, it's something that could come back to haunt you. We can't ignore that reality, all right, Then you've got to take into account the fact that him being in a federal prison, him being in jail right now, being held without bond, wasn't allowed bail even though he's got one more appeal available to him, The chances of him pulling that off of Slim to Nune. Okay, now you've got Hollywood up in arms and incredibly nervous. Why because everybody's wondering whether or not their name is gonna get mentioned. And for that, my condolence is kick in. And here's the reason why. You could have gone to a Diddy park. But there's a Diddy party, and there was a Diddy after party, and the after party is where these quote unquote freak offs were taking place. What if you never went to them? What if you just went to the party and then you're left at a reasonable hour like most people do, and you went home and went about your business and did your own thing. But while you at the party, you took a picture. While you at the party, you were drinking, you were hanging out, you were socialized and fratinizing, having a good time. Based on how so many people are acting, you never know what level of incrimination could come associated with you. And here's where it gets interesting. We're talking about Hollywood. So the image is what it's all about, not just the reality. If the images of you taking pictures and party and then having a good time and you got a drink in your hand and a cigar in your mouth, or whatever the case may be, but you did absolutely nothing wrong. Optics matter in Hollywood more so than most places. So I can understand why so many people are nervous, Yes, certarly nervous because they're guilty. They're nervous because of the association and what it potentially implies and how it could be used to compromise their earning potential. That's the world that exists in Hollywood, and that's what makes this so unfortunate. Having said that, nothing, absolutely nothing pertaining of those folks in terms of optics, comes anywhere near close to the kind of danger Diddy is in joining me now to discuss the latest on a federal case against Sean P. Diddy. Combs is Elie Honing, a former prosecutor for the Southern District of New York, where Diddy will be tried. He's also a senior legal analyst for CNN. Who provides commentary on criminal justice and national security. Ellie, thanks for taking time out of your busy schedule to join the show man. Thank you so much. How you doing.

Take it easy. One of them Jonathan Pots right here on the Stephen A. Smith Show over the digital airwaves or YouTube, and of course iHeartRadio. It's a shame. You heard what he had to say. There's no excuse for this, and Governor Parses needs to be made to account for why he made this decision. I mean, his predecessor decided to stay the execution. The prosecutor acknowledged it. There were mistakes made, evidence was tampered with, et cetera, et cetera. There's no excuse for mister Williams being executed yesterday in light of that preponderance of evidence. When in doubt, preserving life should be the most important thing, more so than anything else, but that clearly was not the case in the state of Missouri yesterday thanks to Governor Mike Parson. What a shame. What a shame. Coming up, the latest on the federal sex trafficking and racketeering case against Sean Diddy Combs as a new accuser goes public with her attorney, Gloria all Read. I'll get into that and more next right here on the stephen A. Smith show back with more in a minute. I want to take a second to make sure everyone knows we're smack in the middle of the NFL season and I couldn't be more excited. And with games being played Thursday night, Sunday night, and Monday night, Prospects wants to help you cash in on all that big time action you see. Prospects is a daily fantasy act where you can pick two or more of your favorite players and then you simply select more or less on their projected stats for the game. Pick up player's rushing yards, passing yards, total touchdowns. The list is absolutely endless, and the best part is Prospects has something for every sports fan to sort of WNBA, MLB, MMA, even Golfer crying out loud, all in the same entry. I make my picks and submit early, all in less than sixty seconds. By the way, that's that's time that it takes for Drake London to take a pass from Kirk Cuzins all the way to the house and get this sign up with code sas and Prospects will give you fifty dollars instantly when you play your first five dollar lineup. You don't need to win your lineup to receive the fifty dollars bonus. It's guaranteed. All you have to do is play as a five dollar lineup on prospects and you'll get fifty dollars instantly. Pick more, pick less. It's really really that easy. Welcome back to stephen A. Smith's show. Now let's get to the latest on Sean Diddy Combs, who's currently sitting in a federal jail awaiting trial on sex trafficking and racketeering charges. Yesterday, a new accuser went public with more accusation against the music mogul. Talia Graves claims in a civil lawsuit that Combs in a bodyguard, drugged, bound, and raped her in two thousand and one and filmed the incident. Graves is represented by famed litigator Gloria Alred, who is no stranger to representing women in high profile cases. Okay, here's a list we're speaking of Gloria already here. Okay, here's a list of just some of the women she's represented in the past. Look at this list right here. O J Simpson trial Remember that Scott Peterson trial, Tiger Woods scandal, Bill Cosby scandal, Anthony Ween a former representative out of New York. Remember that all of that stuff happened. That's who she's represented. Already represented Amber Fry, the girlfriend of Scott Peterson who was convicted of killing his wife an unborn son. And most notably, she represented more than half of the fifty plus women who've accused Bill Cosby of rape and molestation. As for Sean P. D. D. Combs, he's pleaded not guilty the charges that he led a criminal enterprise that abused women. Look, I've already been in the mindset that the brother's in trouble, deep deep trouble, as in never seeing the light of day as a free man again. It's really really that serious. I don't think it's an exaggeration. That's number one. Number two. Everybody's sitting up there talking about Gloria already right now involved in the incident because there's money to be made, okay, And the reality is is that if you've got a situation where you've got tape, you've got audio, etc. Against this man, it's something that could come back to haunt you. We can't ignore that reality, all right, Then you've got to take into account the fact that him being in a federal prison, him being in jail right now, being held without bond, wasn't allowed bail even though he's got one more appeal available to him, The chances of him pulling that off of Slim to Nune. Okay, now you've got Hollywood up in arms and incredibly nervous. Why because everybody's wondering whether or not their name is gonna get mentioned. And for that, my condolence is kick in. And here's the reason why. You could have gone to a Diddy park. But there's a Diddy party, and there was a Diddy after party, and the after party is where these quote unquote freak offs were taking place. What if you never went to them? What if you just went to the party and then you're left at a reasonable hour like most people do, and you went home and went about your business and did your own thing. But while you at the party, you took a picture. While you at the party, you were drinking, you were hanging out, you were socialized and fratinizing, having a good time. Based on how so many people are acting, you never know what level of incrimination could come associated with you. And here's where it gets interesting. We're talking about Hollywood. So the image is what it's all about, not just the reality. If the images of you taking pictures and party and then having a good time and you got a drink in your hand and a cigar in your mouth, or whatever the case may be, but you did absolutely nothing wrong. Optics matter in Hollywood more so than most places. So I can understand why so many people are nervous, Yes, certarly nervous because they're guilty. They're nervous because of the association and what it potentially implies and how it could be used to compromise their earning potential. That's the world that exists in Hollywood, and that's what makes this so unfortunate. Having said that, nothing, absolutely nothing pertaining of those folks in terms of optics, comes anywhere near close to the kind of danger Diddy is in joining me now to discuss the latest on a federal case against Sean P. Diddy. Combs is Elie Honing, a former prosecutor for the Southern District of New York, where Diddy will be tried. He's also a senior legal analyst for CNN. Who provides commentary on criminal justice and national security. Ellie, thanks for taking time out of your busy schedule to join the show man. Thank you so much. How you doing.

Glad to be here you, Steve and I go way back, man. I'm a South Jersey kid. I'm from Cherry Hall. I remember reading you in the Inquirer way back, so it's great to be with you.

Glad to be here you, Steve and I go way back, man. I'm a South Jersey kid. I'm from Cherry Hall. I remember reading you in the Inquirer way back, so it's great to be with you.

Well. Thank you so much, man, I really appreciate it. Let's get right to it. Talia Graves is the eleventh accused to count that eleventh accuser, but the first to come public against P Diddy? How damaging is this case? Is this for his case? Actually?

Well. Thank you so much, man, I really appreciate it. Let's get right to it. Talia Graves is the eleventh accused to count that eleventh accuser, but the first to come public against P Diddy? How damaging is this case? Is this for his case? Actually?

This is bad news for Shawn Comes anyway, you look at this, Steven, Look, I'm gonna let you in on a little prosecutor's secret. We all read the media, and there's two reasons for that. One of them is prosecutors are vain. We want to know what's being said about us or we're getting good press or bad press. But the other reason is we want to see what's going out on out there. You get leads, you get evidence for your cases from civil suits that are filed from media reporting, and I guarantee you. If prosecutors is not already spoken with Ms Graves, they are going to be speaking with her now because what they're trying to do in this case is put together an overwhelming body of evidence, and to do that you need as many victims as you can get. This is why when the US Attorney announced the case last week, he said, if if you believe you may be a victim in this case or a witness, get in touch with us. I've done human trafficking sex trafficking cases like this, Stephen, and it is not at all uncommon. In the days and weeks after you have unveiling indictment like this, you will find more people. More people will come forward. They're trying to bolster their case and this could help them.

This is bad news for Shawn Comes anyway, you look at this, Steven, Look, I'm gonna let you in on a little prosecutor's secret. We all read the media, and there's two reasons for that. One of them is prosecutors are vain. We want to know what's being said about us or we're getting good press or bad press. But the other reason is we want to see what's going out on out there. You get leads, you get evidence for your cases from civil suits that are filed from media reporting, and I guarantee you. If prosecutors is not already spoken with Ms Graves, they are going to be speaking with her now because what they're trying to do in this case is put together an overwhelming body of evidence, and to do that you need as many victims as you can get. This is why when the US Attorney announced the case last week, he said, if if you believe you may be a victim in this case or a witness, get in touch with us. I've done human trafficking sex trafficking cases like this, Stephen, and it is not at all uncommon. In the days and weeks after you have unveiling indictment like this, you will find more people. More people will come forward. They're trying to bolster their case and this could help them.

There.

There.

I was gonna ask the question, what kind of impact does former girlfriend Cassie Ventura's lawsuit have on a federal case, But based on what you just articulated, I'm imagining that contributes to the prosecutor's case. It gets showing p Diddy Combes correct.

I was gonna ask the question, what kind of impact does former girlfriend Cassie Ventura's lawsuit have on a federal case, But based on what you just articulated, I'm imagining that contributes to the prosecutor's case. It gets showing p Diddy Combes correct.

Oh, for sure. It's pretty clear if you look at the indictment of Seawan Combs that the Cassie Ventura allegations are front and Center. It looks like at least one of the counts is based entirely on her allegations that she made in the lawsuit. We've all seen the video of Shawn Combs viciously attacking her in that hotel. Allway, she is going to be a key victim. A real important question though, is are there other victims and if so, how many are there now? Shawn combs is defense lawyer Mark Agniffolow appeared on CNN last week with Caitlin Collins. I was on right after and Agnifelo, Shawn's Combs's lawyer, said, well, the government, the prosecutors say they have fifty victims and witnesses. But I think that's one victim, Cassidy and forty nine witnesses. Now, I said on Aerinic Caitlin, I think that's wrong. You wouldn't say that as a prosecutor. You wouldn't say you have fifty if it was one in forty nine. But it is crucial that prosecutors identify more victims. And if these new allegations can lead them to a second, or third or fourth victim, then that's what prosecutors are in the business to do, and you build your case, you try to give the jury such a massive evidence that they have no choice but to find them guilty.

Oh, for sure. It's pretty clear if you look at the indictment of Seawan Combs that the Cassie Ventura allegations are front and Center. It looks like at least one of the counts is based entirely on her allegations that she made in the lawsuit. We've all seen the video of Shawn Combs viciously attacking her in that hotel. Allway, she is going to be a key victim. A real important question though, is are there other victims and if so, how many are there now? Shawn combs is defense lawyer Mark Agniffolow appeared on CNN last week with Caitlin Collins. I was on right after and Agnifelo, Shawn's Combs's lawyer, said, well, the government, the prosecutors say they have fifty victims and witnesses. But I think that's one victim, Cassidy and forty nine witnesses. Now, I said on Aerinic Caitlin, I think that's wrong. You wouldn't say that as a prosecutor. You wouldn't say you have fifty if it was one in forty nine. But it is crucial that prosecutors identify more victims. And if these new allegations can lead them to a second, or third or fourth victim, then that's what prosecutors are in the business to do, and you build your case, you try to give the jury such a massive evidence that they have no choice but to find them guilty.

Kelly helped me out here. One of the things that I've been mentioning is a guy that was born in the Bronx, raised in the streets of Hollis Queens, New York City. I mean, you hear about somebody getting arrested, you hear about them getting indicted, you see local police, you see prosecutors, and that's that to me. What stands out in my mind in this case the raid on his home by Homeland Security, the arrests, etc. The fact that Homeland Security is the one that has come Fiddty, could you explain whether it is any significance to that at all, and if there is, specify why it's so significant that this is Homeland Security that we're talking about where they came after him with these federal charges.

Kelly helped me out here. One of the things that I've been mentioning is a guy that was born in the Bronx, raised in the streets of Hollis Queens, New York City. I mean, you hear about somebody getting arrested, you hear about them getting indicted, you see local police, you see prosecutors, and that's that to me. What stands out in my mind in this case the raid on his home by Homeland Security, the arrests, etc. The fact that Homeland Security is the one that has come Fiddty, could you explain whether it is any significance to that at all, and if there is, specify why it's so significant that this is Homeland Security that we're talking about where they came after him with these federal charges.

Yeah, that's a great question. So when people think of federal law enforcement agents, they think first, and often only of the FBI. But what people may not realize is there are dozens of federal law enforcement agencies out there, and a big one is Homeland Security. I know from my own experience, Homeland Security specializes in human trafficking and sex trafficking cases at the federal level. FBI does it too. But when I did my biggest sex trafficking case involved thirty defendants and we had seventy some victims back a decade and a half ago. The federal agents on the case, we're Homeland Security. So it doesn't mean there's some immigration issue happening because people often associate that with Homeland Security. They just happened to be one of the federal agencies that specializes in this kind of case. And you know, the search warrant is crucial. I mean they had to go to a judge, prosecutors and agents and show we have probable cause that a crime was committed and that we're going to find evidence in whatever we sees. The phones. We know they found guns, dismantled guns, high caliber guns. That kind of stuff has made its way into the case and it's one of the big reasons that Sean Holmes is behind bars right now because prosecutors said, look what we found when we went into his place. All these firearms, these ammunition, I think they've recovered at various times, certain drugs, narcotics, and the phones now are just a jackpot of evidence. I mean, you get so much off of phones now too.

Yeah, that's a great question. So when people think of federal law enforcement agents, they think first, and often only of the FBI. But what people may not realize is there are dozens of federal law enforcement agencies out there, and a big one is Homeland Security. I know from my own experience, Homeland Security specializes in human trafficking and sex trafficking cases at the federal level. FBI does it too. But when I did my biggest sex trafficking case involved thirty defendants and we had seventy some victims back a decade and a half ago. The federal agents on the case, we're Homeland Security. So it doesn't mean there's some immigration issue happening because people often associate that with Homeland Security. They just happened to be one of the federal agencies that specializes in this kind of case. And you know, the search warrant is crucial. I mean they had to go to a judge, prosecutors and agents and show we have probable cause that a crime was committed and that we're going to find evidence in whatever we sees. The phones. We know they found guns, dismantled guns, high caliber guns. That kind of stuff has made its way into the case and it's one of the big reasons that Sean Holmes is behind bars right now because prosecutors said, look what we found when we went into his place. All these firearms, these ammunition, I think they've recovered at various times, certain drugs, narcotics, and the phones now are just a jackpot of evidence. I mean, you get so much off of phones now too.

What exactly did they find in this homes? You talked about guns, you talked about drugs, what else? I remember what they talked about, surveillance tapes, phones, emails, et cetera. Could you crystallize for my audience, just to as specific as you can get what they've actually found in his homes in Los Angeles and Miami when they raided it.

What exactly did they find in this homes? You talked about guns, you talked about drugs, what else? I remember what they talked about, surveillance tapes, phones, emails, et cetera. Could you crystallize for my audience, just to as specific as you can get what they've actually found in his homes in Los Angeles and Miami when they raided it.

Yeah, so there were firearms. There were various firearms. Some of them had the serial numbers obliterated, meaning scratched off, which you see quite often because that makes it a federal crime. Right there, I believe they found drugs. I'm not quite sure if I remember that right. Look, they found phones and laptops all over the place. When I was starting as a prosecutor twenty years ago, you had to pull information from You had to go get the person's emails, you had to maybe get the physical paper documents. Now you know how much information is on a phone. Everything is on a phone. It's the best possible information you can get. And then I guess I would say, in a separate category, there was all sorts of sex paraphernalia sex tois. The indictment talks about a thousand bottles of baby oil and lube. Now look having you know, over the top sex parties. They call them freak offs and the invited. That's not a crime, nothing illegal about that. But the gist of the allegations is they would force women into these, they would threaten women afterwards. The allegations that you're talking about that just came out. The woman says she was drugged and tied up and then raped, So it all is relevant and there was. Look, that's a lot of that's a lot of evidence to find in any search work.

Yeah, so there were firearms. There were various firearms. Some of them had the serial numbers obliterated, meaning scratched off, which you see quite often because that makes it a federal crime. Right there, I believe they found drugs. I'm not quite sure if I remember that right. Look, they found phones and laptops all over the place. When I was starting as a prosecutor twenty years ago, you had to pull information from You had to go get the person's emails, you had to maybe get the physical paper documents. Now you know how much information is on a phone. Everything is on a phone. It's the best possible information you can get. And then I guess I would say, in a separate category, there was all sorts of sex paraphernalia sex tois. The indictment talks about a thousand bottles of baby oil and lube. Now look having you know, over the top sex parties. They call them freak offs and the invited. That's not a crime, nothing illegal about that. But the gist of the allegations is they would force women into these, they would threaten women afterwards. The allegations that you're talking about that just came out. The woman says she was drugged and tied up and then raped, So it all is relevant and there was. Look, that's a lot of that's a lot of evidence to find in any search work.

P Diddy and his team. I saw the lawyers on television. I think I saw one of them on a Chris Cuomo's show on News Nation. They were talking about at least a couple of lawyers were talking about how the argument to be made in favor of P Diddy, ways you might find his behavior reprehensible or something, there was nothing illegal, giving the impression that it was adult consent going on, How plausible is that argument considering the fact that Homeland Security and the Feds essentially making this case against.

P Diddy and his team. I saw the lawyers on television. I think I saw one of them on a Chris Cuomo's show on News Nation. They were talking about at least a couple of lawyers were talking about how the argument to be made in favor of P Diddy, ways you might find his behavior reprehensible or something, there was nothing illegal, giving the impression that it was adult consent going on, How plausible is that argument considering the fact that Homeland Security and the Feds essentially making this case against.

Him, Well, that's definitely going to be the defense, Stephen, As you said, you can see it from the lawyers who are out there. What they're going to argue is, look, he's a sex freak, but that's not a crime. The other thing they're going to argue, and we've already heard this from Mark Agnaffilo, one of the defenser. It's, by the way, very good defense. I mean, Johnclins has a top shelf guy here. He's going to argue. I think that a lot of this stuff that's been charged is not a federal crime. It's really just an assault the violence assault that's typically that's not a federal crime. The way it becomes federal here is because we have a Rico racketeering charge. So they're gonna argue, this is not federal criminal activity, this is a state crime. And they're gonna argue a lot of this stuff would have been too old to charge federally. But again, the Rico laws, which I used to use all the time, Steve and I used to charge organized crime mafia families, they give prosecutors a massive advantage because you can charge things that would be state crimes, you can charge things that are too old. But I do think that's gonna be the exact appeal. The jury's gonna hear who knows when the trial is a year from now, give or take. I think they're gonna say, look, folks, he had these Maybe you think they're unusual or unappealing sexual appetites, but that doesn't make him a criminal. That's what you're gonna hear.

Him, Well, that's definitely going to be the defense, Stephen, As you said, you can see it from the lawyers who are out there. What they're going to argue is, look, he's a sex freak, but that's not a crime. The other thing they're going to argue, and we've already heard this from Mark Agnaffilo, one of the defenser. It's, by the way, very good defense. I mean, Johnclins has a top shelf guy here. He's going to argue. I think that a lot of this stuff that's been charged is not a federal crime. It's really just an assault the violence assault that's typically that's not a federal crime. The way it becomes federal here is because we have a Rico racketeering charge. So they're gonna argue, this is not federal criminal activity, this is a state crime. And they're gonna argue a lot of this stuff would have been too old to charge federally. But again, the Rico laws, which I used to use all the time, Steve and I used to charge organized crime mafia families, they give prosecutors a massive advantage because you can charge things that would be state crimes, you can charge things that are too old. But I do think that's gonna be the exact appeal. The jury's gonna hear who knows when the trial is a year from now, give or take. I think they're gonna say, look, folks, he had these Maybe you think they're unusual or unappealing sexual appetites, but that doesn't make him a criminal. That's what you're gonna hear.

Names like Jeffrey Epstein, R Kelly. I even heard somebody last week bring up Bill Cosby for crime out loud. I mean, all of these names have been brought up. All three ended up in jail. In the case of Jeffrey Epstein, supposedly there was a suicide that took place while he was incarcerated. Considering the fact that jail time was the end result for individuals like that, does that make it more probable that there will be jail time for P Diddy?

Names like Jeffrey Epstein, R Kelly. I even heard somebody last week bring up Bill Cosby for crime out loud. I mean, all of these names have been brought up. All three ended up in jail. In the case of Jeffrey Epstein, supposedly there was a suicide that took place while he was incarcerated. Considering the fact that jail time was the end result for individuals like that, does that make it more probable that there will be jail time for P Diddy?

Well, I think there's also a warning within those names you gave me. Bill Cosby right now is a free man. Right because prosecutors overreached in the way they prosecuted this case. The Pennsylvania Supreme Court actually threw out his conviction. He did three or four years behind bars. Harvey Weinstein, also looked a sexual predator, was convicted and then one of his convictions was thrown out six months or so ago because prosecutors also misstep. There so a lot of pressure on prosecutors here. But if we're looking at Shawn Combs's case, it's early. We don't have all the facts. We have a lot in the indictment, and there was other paperwork that was submitted. I'll just say this, It does not look good for Sean Combs. And I'll tell you why. Won you do not want to be prosecuted by the Southern District of New York. I say that as an alum of that office. But that office is famous for being aggressive and for winning its cases. Recently, they convicted Sam bankmin freed. They convicted Senator Robert Menendez even though he's the Jersey Senator. That office has a long history of convicting high profile cases. The other thing is the penalties he's looking at Stephen are through the roof. If he's convicted on the forcible sex trafficking of Cassie, he is looking at a fifteen year mandatory minimum minimum. And I know sometimes you'll hear, oh, so and so got sentenced to let's say, twenty years in prison, but then two and a half years later they're released. That's in the state system. In the federal system, there's no parole, there's no early release. If you get sentence to let's say fifteen years in prison, the only reduction you can get is fifteen percent off for good time in prison. So if Shawn Combs gets convicted on that count, he has to do fifteen years minus fifteen percent. So let's say thirteen years behind bars. He's fifty four years old, and it could be more than that as well.

Well, I think there's also a warning within those names you gave me. Bill Cosby right now is a free man. Right because prosecutors overreached in the way they prosecuted this case. The Pennsylvania Supreme Court actually threw out his conviction. He did three or four years behind bars. Harvey Weinstein, also looked a sexual predator, was convicted and then one of his convictions was thrown out six months or so ago because prosecutors also misstep. There so a lot of pressure on prosecutors here. But if we're looking at Shawn Combs's case, it's early. We don't have all the facts. We have a lot in the indictment, and there was other paperwork that was submitted. I'll just say this, It does not look good for Sean Combs. And I'll tell you why. Won you do not want to be prosecuted by the Southern District of New York. I say that as an alum of that office. But that office is famous for being aggressive and for winning its cases. Recently, they convicted Sam bankmin freed. They convicted Senator Robert Menendez even though he's the Jersey Senator. That office has a long history of convicting high profile cases. The other thing is the penalties he's looking at Stephen are through the roof. If he's convicted on the forcible sex trafficking of Cassie, he is looking at a fifteen year mandatory minimum minimum. And I know sometimes you'll hear, oh, so and so got sentenced to let's say, twenty years in prison, but then two and a half years later they're released. That's in the state system. In the federal system, there's no parole, there's no early release. If you get sentence to let's say fifteen years in prison, the only reduction you can get is fifteen percent off for good time in prison. So if Shawn Combs gets convicted on that count, he has to do fifteen years minus fifteen percent. So let's say thirteen years behind bars. He's fifty four years old, and it could be more than that as well.

Wow. Former Death Row Records head sug Knight was on Cuoma News Nation last night. I want you to listen into these explosive claims.

Wow. Former Death Row Records head sug Knight was on Cuoma News Nation last night. I want you to listen into these explosive claims.

Okay, if you have a guy named Tebby he used to work for in the still his god's job was to bring from the age girls and girls to have six do.

Okay, if you have a guy named Tebby he used to work for in the still his god's job was to bring from the age girls and girls to have six do.

You think did he knows enough that it's a very delicate balance that maybe investigators will want to know these other names and greatly reduce his exposure to criminality to time versus what people would do to keep him quiet.

You think did he knows enough that it's a very delicate balance that maybe investigators will want to know these other names and greatly reduce his exposure to criminality to time versus what people would do to keep him quiet.

Number one, I've been knowing him in a long time and we was friends.

Number one, I've been knowing him in a long time and we was friends.

Were not any means, but we were friends. He's not a dummy.

Were not any means, but we were friends. He's not a dummy.

So he's smart enough to work his magic on top of that Disney right here, even involved with the FBI of his career, did he got powerful people?

So he's smart enough to work his magic on top of that Disney right here, even involved with the FBI of his career, did he got powerful people?

I don't expect you to comment on the veracity of those statements, because how could we possibly confirm that. However, hearing something like that, how does a prosecute to use that nugget of information to the advantage Ellie, That's what I'm wondering about.

I don't expect you to comment on the veracity of those statements, because how could we possibly confirm that. However, hearing something like that, how does a prosecute to use that nugget of information to the advantage Ellie, That's what I'm wondering about.

Let me tell you my thought process. And I just saw that for the first time. But if I'm back in the prosecutor's office number one, there's no way in hell I'm calling Suge Knight as a witness at the track. Can you imagine, right, Jery.

Let me tell you my thought process. And I just saw that for the first time. But if I'm back in the prosecutor's office number one, there's no way in hell I'm calling Suge Knight as a witness at the track. Can you imagine, right, Jery.

Believe this guy? Oh?

Believe this guy? Oh?

I will say, I've called way worse people than Suge Knight as witnesses cooperators. But like I said in the beginning, Stephen, you're always watching what's being said because you can always develop a lead off that maybe you can say, Okay, who could Shug Night be talking about here? Who are some of these people who would bring in girls? If you haven't already identified them, go find those people, Listen. I wouldn't even necessarily say I'm not even gonna talk to Suge Knight. He's never gonna be a witness for me. But I may give them a shot or send an FBI agent or Homeland Security agent out to say, who are you talking about? Do you want to give us names here? Because we want to find these people. But the thing you're always doing as a prosecutor, Stephen, is prosecutors are obsessed with corroboration. You want to back up every witness you can, whether they're a choir boy or should. You want to make sure that anything that gets set up on that stand is something you can back up with a document, with a piece of video, with another witness, that kind of thing. So I think that's what I would do with that with that clip.

I will say, I've called way worse people than Suge Knight as witnesses cooperators. But like I said in the beginning, Stephen, you're always watching what's being said because you can always develop a lead off that maybe you can say, Okay, who could Shug Night be talking about here? Who are some of these people who would bring in girls? If you haven't already identified them, go find those people, Listen. I wouldn't even necessarily say I'm not even gonna talk to Suge Knight. He's never gonna be a witness for me. But I may give them a shot or send an FBI agent or Homeland Security agent out to say, who are you talking about? Do you want to give us names here? Because we want to find these people. But the thing you're always doing as a prosecutor, Stephen, is prosecutors are obsessed with corroboration. You want to back up every witness you can, whether they're a choir boy or should. You want to make sure that anything that gets set up on that stand is something you can back up with a document, with a piece of video, with another witness, that kind of thing. So I think that's what I would do with that with that clip.

When you bring up the Southern District of New York, you're in the lum you know. You know how lethal this department, this department is. I mean, their reputation definitely precedes them. And I say that in a very positive way as somebody who wants criminals off the streets. It's the Southern District of New York. It is what it is. I ask you this question at all honesty. When we talk about them, buffering their case. Per se, one would give them. One would get the impression the case obviously has to be prosecuted, but it's already been made in the court of public opinion. I know that doesn't ultimately convict you, but it does stand to influence jurors potentially. I'm wondering, why do you find yourself having to make the case when one would see you raiding the homes in Miami, in Los Angeles, and then ultimately this arrest took place months later. One would surmise, you are ready, You've got your case. It's Diddy that has got to defend himself because right now he looks guilty as ol.

When you bring up the Southern District of New York, you're in the lum you know. You know how lethal this department, this department is. I mean, their reputation definitely precedes them. And I say that in a very positive way as somebody who wants criminals off the streets. It's the Southern District of New York. It is what it is. I ask you this question at all honesty. When we talk about them, buffering their case. Per se, one would give them. One would get the impression the case obviously has to be prosecuted, but it's already been made in the court of public opinion. I know that doesn't ultimately convict you, but it does stand to influence jurors potentially. I'm wondering, why do you find yourself having to make the case when one would see you raiding the homes in Miami, in Los Angeles, and then ultimately this arrest took place months later. One would surmise, you are ready, You've got your case. It's Diddy that has got to defend himself because right now he looks guilty as ol.

So two things. First of all, you will every time you see a prosecutor make an announcement from a podium, whether it's the Attorney General of the United States, the DA of whatever county, they will always say these words, our investigation is ongoing, and a lot of times, honestly, Stephen, it's just boiler and play. The investigation is basically done. But it's clear here this one is ongoing. I mean, we've already seen reporting that there's new witnesses going in the grand jury, and good prosecutors know your investigation is not over until that jury comes back with a verdict. Now, from Sean Combs's perspective, it's important to keep in mind. You know, again, another thing he gets said at every press conference. He is presumed innocent until proven guilty. A defendant never technically has to put on a defense. He doesn't have to say no, no, no, folks, and the jury, they've got it wrong. Here's what actually happened.

So two things. First of all, you will every time you see a prosecutor make an announcement from a podium, whether it's the Attorney General of the United States, the DA of whatever county, they will always say these words, our investigation is ongoing, and a lot of times, honestly, Stephen, it's just boiler and play. The investigation is basically done. But it's clear here this one is ongoing. I mean, we've already seen reporting that there's new witnesses going in the grand jury, and good prosecutors know your investigation is not over until that jury comes back with a verdict. Now, from Sean Combs's perspective, it's important to keep in mind. You know, again, another thing he gets said at every press conference. He is presumed innocent until proven guilty. A defendant never technically has to put on a defense. He doesn't have to say no, no, no, folks, and the jury, they've got it wrong. Here's what actually happened.

Right.

Right.

A defendant can just play the burden of proof game and say, folks, they failed to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt, therefore you must find him not guilty. That said, as you noted, it's very different when you have such a high profile person like Sean Combs. He has clearly not taken the strategy. It's not like him to just say I'm going to sit back and just sort of poke holes. He's on the affirmative, he's on the aggressive. That's why you've seen his lawyers on TV. But let me tell you the stats aren't good for him. I mean, if you look at the historical data, ninety five plus percent of people in the federal system, defendants plead guilty, and of those who go to trial in the Southern District of New York, easily eighty plus percent end up getting convicted. It is really really hard to roll the dice and beat the Sdmy.

A defendant can just play the burden of proof game and say, folks, they failed to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt, therefore you must find him not guilty. That said, as you noted, it's very different when you have such a high profile person like Sean Combs. He has clearly not taken the strategy. It's not like him to just say I'm going to sit back and just sort of poke holes. He's on the affirmative, he's on the aggressive. That's why you've seen his lawyers on TV. But let me tell you the stats aren't good for him. I mean, if you look at the historical data, ninety five plus percent of people in the federal system, defendants plead guilty, and of those who go to trial in the Southern District of New York, easily eighty plus percent end up getting convicted. It is really really hard to roll the dice and beat the Sdmy.

What do we just surmise from him being denied bail not once but twice.

What do we just surmise from him being denied bail not once but twice.

Well, first of all, it's a practical better means he's going to be in He's going to be behind bars until the trial happens, which, like I said before, you're looking at a year or so. He has one more shot. He's going to take it to the Court of Appeals, but that's one in a thousand that he gets that. It makes it much harder to prepare your defense, right your lawyers have to wait in the line at the prison before they get in. You know, you don't have access to the outside world. So it is a handicap when it comes to actually preparing your defense. And Stephen, I mean the MDC where comes is being held now, the Metropolitan Detentions that are over in Brooklyn. I've been there many times because one of the things you do as a prosecutors you're talking to witnesses, people who might flip. I mean in a secure area. I'm not going to walk into general population. You know, that would get a guy killed. But I've spent a lot of time in there, and let me tell you, I don't know if you've ever had the misfortune of going into a prison to visit somebody or something like that. I've been to, you know, I don't know more prisons than I can remember. That is probably the worst. It's the worst federal facility for sure, that I've been in. I mean, it is over Getting ready.

Well, first of all, it's a practical better means he's going to be in He's going to be behind bars until the trial happens, which, like I said before, you're looking at a year or so. He has one more shot. He's going to take it to the Court of Appeals, but that's one in a thousand that he gets that. It makes it much harder to prepare your defense, right your lawyers have to wait in the line at the prison before they get in. You know, you don't have access to the outside world. So it is a handicap when it comes to actually preparing your defense. And Stephen, I mean the MDC where comes is being held now, the Metropolitan Detentions that are over in Brooklyn. I've been there many times because one of the things you do as a prosecutors you're talking to witnesses, people who might flip. I mean in a secure area. I'm not going to walk into general population. You know, that would get a guy killed. But I've spent a lot of time in there, and let me tell you, I don't know if you've ever had the misfortune of going into a prison to visit somebody or something like that. I've been to, you know, I don't know more prisons than I can remember. That is probably the worst. It's the worst federal facility for sure, that I've been in. I mean, it is over Getting ready.

To ask you what makes it so bad? When crystallize for my audience this prison that he's in in Brooklyn, New York. I've heard numerous folks say it's one of, if not the worst. Why is it so bad?

To ask you what makes it so bad? When crystallize for my audience this prison that he's in in Brooklyn, New York. I've heard numerous folks say it's one of, if not the worst. Why is it so bad?

Okay? First of all, there used to be two prisons serving the New York area, one of men and one in Brooklyn. The one of Manhattan is now closed, so all those inmates. It is crazy overcrowded. Second of all, if you've been to prisons, a lot of them are on acres and acres of land, forty acres you know whatever, thirty acres This is in Brooklyn. I mean it's basically like half a block, so it's incredibly cramped. It's claustrophobic man. When I go in there, Steven, when I come out, I'm gasping for air, like I'm a little claustrophobic.