In a powerful and hopefully-enlightening episode, Iyanla speaks with a father who was former military, and is now struggling with a divorce. He’s worried that his two adult children weren’t given a good life and may end up resenting him for his choice to leave their mother, even though it was best for him. Iyanla finds the real core of the issue and helps the caller, and maybe more listeners out there, learn to understand that men can experience heartbreak too… And sometimes they need to let it happen in order to grow.
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This episode is a rebroadcast of Episode 20.
Executive Producers: Sandie Bailey, Alex Alcheh, Lauren Hohman, Tyler Klang & Gabrielle Collins
Producer & Editor: Vince Dajani
Associate Producer: Akiya McKnight
I am a Yamla. I've been very open about the fact that I was not always good at making my relationships work. I have been divorced three times, twice from the same person. In other words, I have seen a lot and failed a lot in my relationships. So I am here to share with you what I learned along the way, because I did take copious notes. Welcome to the r Spot, a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. You know, sometimes as women, I think that we think that men don't have feelings and they don't have hearts. Now, sometimes it's because of the way that they behave and sometimes it's because of the stories we make up about them. I also think that sometimes men don't know how to say what they feel, and as women, we don't know how to hear it. Sometimes I think we're so busy trying to talk them out of what they're thinking that we don't give honor to their feeling. I put a call out and I said I wanted to talk to men because I know the one place a man is willing to be vulnerable and share his heart is when it comes to dealing with his children. And sometimes as mothers and women. We don't honor and respect a man's heart as a father. So my hope is that and listening to my next caller, my guest for today that women will rethink what they think about how men. Bill, take a listen. Greetings, we love it. Welcome to the R spot.
Wow, how are you?
Man? I'm blessed?
How are you? I'm in r right now because you're one of my favorite people and I'm just in shock right now. So this is amazing.
Well, take a breath.
I'm crying.
Thank you for calling. I'm always amazed and encouraged by the amount of courage it takes for someone to be so vulnerable to call and talk to basically a stranger. So you're in awe with me. I'm in awe with you. So we're just awe struck. How about that? And awesome sounds good?
Man, sounds good?
So how can I support you today? Let's talk about your relationship challenge, issue, dilemma. What's going on?
So I am apparently going through a divorce, okay, which is spilled over into to the children. Two children, one's about to be twenty two and ones just turned seventeen. I've been active father in their life since birth. I've been married to their mother since they were both born. We're going through a separation and it has definitely caused turmoil between me and the children. And I get a lot of mixed feedback from certain individuals of my circle, to inclusion lawyers and things, and a lot of times I get they're grown adults now, you know, And I think people miss the fact that grown adult or child are still our children. I don't think it changes the level of effect and hurt. So I'm just looking to find out, Hey, you know, how do I, as a father kind of re establish the relationship, you know, the connection of the child and how do I put myself in a position to be that father again or is it that it's a new relationship.
First of all, how beautiful is that that you have been in their life since they were born?
Yes, ma'am.
How long has this separation or divorce? How long has that been going on?
So the separation has been going off for close to three years. The divorce started legally back in April. The relationship of me and my children has been tainted for well over a year now.
M The reason I asked that is because your seventeen year old daughter was fourteen when this breakdown began, and the twenty two year old daughter was nineteen when this breakdown began.
And when we say the breakdown, that's me physically leaving the separation. Prior to that, there was trauma here and there, with arguments and things that they were exposed to. Nothing physical, but definitely the normal yelling and screaming, which is why the separation happened. I chose to leave because we couldn't communicate anymore.
And the children are always collateral damage. So are both of the daughters distant from you or is it just one? Or where does the problem seem to me? It's definitely both both, okay? And what does that look like? What does the separation? What does this break down look like between you and them?
Lack of communication? I think there are times where they feel that my tone lowed, which affects the communication. There's also the reaching out and not responding for a couple of days or not at all, and that's where I feel the foundation is not there. It's like, how do I rebuild? We can't get aligned on communicating just to respond to a text or into a phone call to say that you're okay or I love you.
Well.
Because that doesn't exist, I find myself poking to try to figure out how do I get a response?
Yeah, what is the story they tell about why you and their mother are divorcing? Do you know that part?
Though? But I do know that their main issue that they've expressed to me is how I responded to their grandparents during a situation where me, as the father, I wanted to understand where my kids were at the time. Like you said, Cameron was about fifteen, and she would spend a night out or be at a night out and I would find out after she came back, and that just didn't sit well. So grandparents got involved with a conversation between me and the spouse. You know, my tone was very aggressive, not going to respect me dealing with my children. You can leave my house at a very aggressive tone. And unfortunately, when I look at it now, I understand why the kids are hurt because dad was the active doing for twenty years and the grandparents played a very vital role and they still played a vital role in their lives. So I understand the hurts. But I've also believe in there's a place when adults are having arguments children to stay out of it.
But this you're dealing with a new kind of young person today. You're not dealing with the kind of young person that we were or that you were. How old are you, sir.
I'm forty two years old. Man.
Okay, yeah, so you come from a different generation. You're a millennial, you're right.
And on top of the fact, my grandfather raised me. So with my grandfather raised me, I know, I have some old tendencies that may not you know, working today's age. So you know, we try to find different ways of different approaches.
And you're military, yes, marily tired. So you're rough. I'm telling you right now, you're rough.
I am, I am.
You know there are four types of parents. There's the drill sergeant parent, there's to make them happy, there's the inaccessible or unresponsive parent, and then there's the responsible parent. And all of us, you know, at some point another cross one of those lines, whether the sergeant do it because I said, do it, do it this way, or where the okay, okay, okay, let me just make the child happy, or we're like, look, go somewhere and leave me alone. I don't have time for you and then there's the Okay, wait one second, I'll be with you. Come tell me what the problem is. If you had to classify your entire parenting history with your two daughters, what would be your top line? Drill sergeant, responsible, unavailable, make them happy.
I think I was balanced in between make them happy, yeah, responsible and drill cder.
Okay, probably responsible was down on the other bottom wrung because being military, you probably weren't even aware of just your posture, how you stand, how you speak, you know, right, So, as the drill sergeant parent, make them happy, and that usually grows out of guilt if you're not around. When you are around, you want to make them happy.
You want to give them this, you want to take them Okay, yes.
Okay, good. So what happens in that instance when you're the drill sergeant is you have you're trying to make them perfect, and then when they see your imperfections, what happens is they call it a contradiction or they say you are hypocrite, and then they're torn because here you come with the goodies and the money and the toys and the gifts, and let's go out, and then they feel blackmailed. So it sounds to me. I could be wrong somewhere somehow in that hypocritical perfectionists. I got goodies, I'm daddy. I'm gonna take care of you. They have lost respect.
For you, and I could say I definitely agree with that. Okay, Yeah, you touched on a very you know, you be away for eighteen months, you be away for a year, you come back, and then I would go on overdrive. I was coach when I was home, I was while I was my daughter's vocal coach and manager. And you go from trying to do that, not you.
I own it. I want you to own it.
I go, I go back into that right. Yeah, but you're spot on as far as the relationship, and I can definitely see, especially over time, all that can manifest yourself into what it is right now.
Yeah, I want you to understand. That's what the ghosting or the silence is about. They're torn. They feel in one sense that you are hypocritical, and in another sense, because your daddy and they do have those memories and you do have a relationship with them, their hearts are broken because they don't want to hate you, but they're really they're really kind of pissed.
Off right now, you're right, all right.
Listen to me. I want you to listen to me with your shoulders and your backbone. I want you to hear this. Okay, yes, ma'am, You're not going to lose your daughters because your relationship with them was established by the time they were five. But as you so wisely said, you've got to build a new relationship with them. You have to build a new relationship with two young women. You're no longer parenting children, parenting two young women, right, You're not going to lose your daughters. You've got to get that in your body. I know you wanted to look like this. That's the drill sergeant. Put him in the closet right now. Send him off, deploy him somewhere, because what you're doing with the calling and the poking, that's what you're triggering up for them, the drill sergeant, and he is the hypocrite. We do not want him participating in this healing.
Okay, yes, ma'am.
And I really want you to hear that you're not going to lose your daughters, because that fear and that belief is making you aggressive. If you just want to let them know I love you. That's a card. I love you, and I understand why we can't speak right now. That's a card. I love you and I understand how I messed up. That's a card. M what's the butt? I hear the butt? What is it?
There's a lot of I've hurd anger and I'm trying to push aside to.
Why No, let's let that out. We do not want to push that aside. We wanted to come out. We want to give it a voice. We want to express it because you trying to hold on to it. That's what they feel, right. They can't manage that. That's too much. And we'll talk about that when we come back. Welcome back to the RD spot. Let's pick up where we left off. Can we go a little deeper here, of course? Okay, take a breath. Oh let's start here. I'm angry because I want you to repeat that and complete it.
I'm angry because I feel like I've failed to give them the life that I wanted them to have, Okay, that they could be happy and just everything that they want to be for themselves. And I always wanted to make sure that they had the tools and resources and that I could be there alongside them just be that oversight. And I feel like I failed them because I walked away from the marriage. I left, but I felt it was the right thing to do because the thing that they were seeing was just not what they should have seen as far as communication between someone that is supposed to be a significant other. So I've never given up anything in my entire life. I've never gave up, and I feel like I've given up on them walking away from the marriage. And unfortunately, the pain that they're feelings is far greater than what I would imagine it was. And I'm in a position I don't know how to respond to it.
And you feel weak. I don't know how to respond, and I feel that I do.
I feel we depleted. Uh huh, this is the first time I've never felt like this in my entire life. This is different. A man shouldn't feel this type. This is a different type of energy.
Yet, a man shouldn't feel that. A man is not feeling that, a father is feeling it. Give yourself permission to feel it. Missed the military. What branch were you? Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines?
I was acting in the Air Force.
Man, Okay, so you really you got strict regulations because if you don't follow the strict regulation.
Somebody could die.
When I heard the suit, yeah, but.
That's not what's going on here. I feel like I failed. Then I wanted them to be happy, and I walked away. I've never failed at anything, and now I've failed at being a father. They saw too much. They hurt too much. They hurt because of what I didn't do, and now I don't know what to do. I feel weak and depleted, and I shouldn't feel this way. Did I get it all?
Yes, ma'am?
Yeah, yeah, be right there. So I'm going to say this to you, and you're not going to believe me. Okay, yes, ma'am. You didn't do anything wrong and you have not failed. You may have walked away from the marriage because you were stepping into what you value and what matters for you. You're in a state of transition because what's happening is you're stuck in your head and all of this that I shared with you, feeling like a failure walking away. They saw too much. But pa Boa, that's all down in your body and the reason you're in pain is because you're living from the neck up. You got to live from the neck down. Tell me what you heard me say. You don't have to repeat my words, but tell me what you're hearing inside of you right now.
Just want them to be okay.
There are Okay, they are. It's you that's not okay. Tell me what's going on in your mind right now.
I'm talking to you and I'm thinking about the shows that I've seen, and I'm trying to digest the vision of just the information that you're giving me so I can process it.
Well, you've got to surrender control. You're trying to control everything. You're trying to control how you feel. You're trying to control what they do. You're trying to control what this looks like. And what you have to do is be here right now and right now. You are a broken hearted daddy. You're a broken hearted daddy. Would that be accurate? Just say yes, definitely is give yourself permission to be a broken hearted daddy. Because the military guy can't solve this. He can't. So I'm gonna take you right down in the pit. Well, I got you right on the pit of your belly, right here, right here, This is what I want you to say. I forgive myself for what say it. I forgive myself for I.
Forgive myself for not being there when I felt I should have been there.
No story. I forgive myself for not being there when I think I should have been. Take a breath. What else? I forgive myself.
For my tone at times?
Yeah? Okay, what else? Take a breath? Come on, breathe. I forgive myself for.
Forgive myself for maybe not hearing them the way that have heard them if I wasn't pulled up. We're trying to fix everything else.
Mm hmm. I forgive myself for not being a good listener. Would that be accurate?
Yes, ma'am.
Okay, come on, say it. Own it. I need you to own it.
I forgive myself for not being a good and active listener as I could have been.
Not as you could have been. You could not have been. If you could have been, you would have been. And that's where the problem is. You're holding yourself responsible for things that you didn't know how to do or that you didn't know was necessary because you've been living a dual life. What you had to do and live and be to be in the military to earn the money so that they could go to the px and have a home and do those things. You had that going on in your consciousness when Daddy needed a heart and Daddy's heart may not have been available because of what Daddy had to do to be the man in the house. Come on, you've given these kids a good life. Do you know how many twenty two year old and seventeen year old young women out here don't even know where their father is And here you are weeping and balling because they won't talk to you. Come on, brother, give yourself a break here and there nutty news right now. And it ain't personal. They personal trust me, I had three twenty two year olds. It is not personal. Okay? What else I forgive myself for? What?
Forgive myself for not being able to get in the marriage. It's hard because I felt like it was for them, the girls, and I need to let.
That go away. People change till death do us part. But death of what what I hear you saying. There was a death of communication, There was a death of civility. There was a death of compassion between you and their mother. That's none of their business and they are collateral damage to that. But don't make what happened in your marriage a part of what you did or didn't do for your daughters? Did you give them a good life? Are they living in a shelter?
No, that's no means.
Do they have food to eat and clothes on their back?
Yes, ma'am.
And when you were away for the eighteen months working, were they able to go to the PX and shop? Were they in a home?
Yes, ma'am.
Well can you give yourself some credit? I'm trying, Well, why don't you deserve the credit for the good that you've done. This is not the military. You haven't been discharged from their life. Give them time to go through this, because you know what, You're not healthy for them right now, because you would be so busy from your guilt trying to make up for buying them stuff and acquiescing to this set, and they would play you like a fiddle. Brother. I got three of them beasts. I know what they do. You need to get yourself hole and healed and healthy, get yourself up. They'll be back, trust me when I tell you, and they'll probably have laundry.
And I'll be here.
How about I forgive myself for taking care of myself in a way that has caused my daughter's hurt. You didn't hurt your daughters, but you leaving the marriage to take care of yourself cause them hurt. Can you forgive yourself for that.
Of that? Yes? Because okay, yes, I can give myself for that. I walked away because it was what was needed for myself.
For them, yeah, not for them, Not for them, Not for them. Just stay in your lane, stay in your car, in your road or lane in your world. What I walked away from the marriage because that's what I needed for me. Because who you were in the marriage isn't the demonstration you wanted to show your daughters. Yes, ah, good, that's not who you wanted to be. But you haven't become who you want to be yet. You're still in that process of managing your tone and learning how to listen and giving yourself credit and forgiving yourself. This is your process now, because even if they showed up today, you'd be so busy apologizing and bending over backwards and guilt. It wouldn't be healthy. Does that make sense?
One thousand?
Well, talk more about it when we come back. Welcome back. I am I'm learning. This is the r spot. Tell me how open you are to getting some help and support, and.
I'm very open to any resources.
Hear me, you're judging yourself by military standards. Daddies don't live by military standards. They live by their heart. And what you're going to have to do is go down in the basement or in the closet and let your heart break. You're fighting that tooth and nail. But until you let your heart break, this stuff is going to keep floating around in your head and you're just going to whip yourself to death. I want you to get some help because as the military guy, you know, he still has a lot of dominion in your head. And this is a daddy situation. This is what I can tell you as a daughter. Daughters love their daddy, they absolutely do. We want to be their princess and sometimes we'll fight mommy for daddy, you know. But right now you've got a couple of things going on, baby, and this process is gonna take some time. So you're gonna go. You're gonna get yourself a supply of cards. I love you cards. You're the greatest thing in the world. Card. I just wanted to say hi. Card. And you pick a day. I don't care if it's Tuesday, Wednesday Thursday, and every Tuesday Wednesday Thursday, you send each of them a card. Stop calling, stop texting, don't ever change your phone number. Yes, ma'am, can I tell you a secret?
Of course? Okay.
My daughter passed away and she had a nine year old daughter, and I raised that nine year old. I did everything her mother wanted her to do. I sent her a private high school. I sent her to college. I supported her all throughout her college. She never had to work, she never had to do anything. I wanted her to focus on her studies. She came home from college after four years, spent one night in my house, went to her father's house, who hadn't been involved in her life. And I haven't seen her in six years. She doesn't answer my call, she doesn't respond to my texts. So after about a year of torturing myself, and that sounds like where you're at, torture and suffering, I had to give her permission to think whatever she thought, felt whatever she felt, and let her go. I had to be willing never to see her again if that's what would make her happy. It's been six years and I still pray for her, and I still love her, and I still know that one day, before I close my eyes for the last time, I'm gonna see her and wrap her up in my arms. But I have to be willing to let it be done on her time, not mine. You just have to be willing. But you're not gonna be willing until you process yourself through some of that pain. Please don't try to do this by yourself. The pain is too deep and the conflict is too great. But I promise you, when it happens, you're gonna owe me a dinner or a pair of shoes. Those are the two things that makes me happen. Food and shoes. You'll get both, okay, when they show up in your life. You're gonna owe me a meal and I like some really fancy places, or pair of shoes or both.
I'm not worried. Trust me, we'll take care of you.
So tell me something you know now that you didn't know when you called.
Something I know now that I didn't know when I made the call is that I didn't fail.
Oh good. If you don't know nothing else, I hope you know that even though you were away because of your children's profession, you gave them a good life. I hope you know that, and I hope you know you need help to get through this next stage of the process.
Agreed.
Okay, So when they call you, I don't care if it's next Tuesday or two years from now. You owe me a dinner and a pair of shoes, cause it's going to happen. And if that doesn't work, get back in touch with me, let me know. And I've got some other people. I just don't want you out there by yourself. Okay, yes, ma'am. Can I ask you a question, of course? Has anybody told you they love you today?
Not today?
That would be a no. I want you to know I love you today. I absolutely love you today. I love your courage. I love that you're a daddy weeping for his babies. That is just so exciting to me. In fact, if I wasn't so old, it would be sexy.
Thank you too much.
But I'm old, so I can't go there. You're not listen you heal your heart and go get you a girlfriend. Okay, that's what you do. Yes, Okay, stay in touch with me, let me know how you're doing. If you just have to call, I want to keep up with you.
Okay, Thank you very much. And I appreciate your time and energy and just everything that you put on a table for me to be able to look at and have some options and just things to see differently. So thank you for your time and once again to be able to talk to you. You don't even know how many times are just shows on our little hard drives when being deployed location and watching your showing. Guys are coming, but were you watching them.
Like man so well, I appreciate it and take some time. Don't just get off this phone and go do something. Sit with what you've heard, let it ruminate in you. I really think it'll be supportive for you to get below your neck. Love you mean it, see you soon. Have a bye bike. I want to say to all the men out there who are listening, or the women who are listening who have men in their lives that need to listen. I want to say to you, daddy's give your self permission to let your heart break, because until you drop into your heart and clear out all of those feelings of guilt or sadness, or anger or fear, they will be a barrier between you and your children and you and their mother. Daddies have a right to experience heartbreak and the only thing that keeps them from doing it is what they think other people will think about them. Daddy's let your heartbreak because that's the step to your healing. I hope this has been helpful to someone, and if you have a question about this or any other relationship issue, you can call me live at seven seven five three zero seven seven seven sixty eight. Now be sure to follow me on social media for all of the calling times, and until then, stay in peace and not pieces. The R Spot is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.