Two callers join Iyanla this week to recount their stories about how poor communication with their boyfriends has caused the downfall of their relationships. However, when Iyanla hears what’s really going on… She’s not so sure it’s a communication issue.
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I am a Yamla. I've been very open about the fact that I was not always good at making my relationships work. I have been divorced three times, twice from the same person. In other words, I have seen a lot and failed a lot in my relationships. So I am here to share with you what I learned along the way because I did take copious notes. Welcome to the R Spot, a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. I want to speak today as an advocate for communication because I think communication takes a bad rap in relationships. Everybody blames everything on communication. Oh, we have bad commun munication, we have poor communication. We can't communicate. He don't communicate. I don't communicate. It's not communication, it's your mind. When you don't have clarity in your mind about who you are, about what you want, about what it is that you're doing, and what it is you desire. When you're not clear about what's working what's not working, of course you can't communicate. You can't communicate with yourself. How you going to communicate with somebody else. Communication is a two way operation. It's offering something, it's hearing something, and in there you have speaking, you have listening, you have hearing, you have sharing, and people don't make those distinctions. What's the distinction between hearing and listening. There's two different things, and when you don't know that and you try to articulate, it'll break down and then you blame communication. Communication has to be clear, but the clarity has to first come from within you. Communication has to be clean, meaning you cannot have a hidden agenda. You can have unspoken truths, you can have speculations and judgments, clear clean, and then it has to be complete, complete. You have to say what you mean, mean what you say, and walk away with every question you had answered. But since most of us go into communications without a clear intention, without a clear direction, it breaks down and then we blame it on communication. Stop blaming communication and blame your crooked mind communication. My next guest thinks she has a communication problem. I don't think it's communication. I think it's a lack of clarity. Take a listen. Greetings beloved, and welcome to the our spot. And what is your relationship challenge, issue, dilemma that we can investigate today?
Okay, so I have been in an almost nine year relationship now and five years into the relationship, we decided to move in with each other. Then we end up having a baby. Two years after the baby, well, during my pregnancy we had kind of like a little downfall. We you know, fell off a little bit. So we're trying to get that together. The baby came, we were able to help hold it together for the baby. Two years later, we decided, we mutually agreed that it was best for us to separate. I moved out and also off have two kids prior to him. We decided to separate. I moved out. So now it's been two years that we've been separating. So within these last two years, it's just been it's just been a real emotional rollercoaster, you know, trying to decide if we still want to be together or if we don't want to be together. But at the same time, we are still seeing each other. We're still kind of like dating, you know. Still nothing really changed. Let's say that nothing really changed in our pattern except for we move we separated. So I'm just trying to figure out how do I navigate.
That navigate what let do you navigate one?
I guess, I guess navigate on us trying to get back together into one household and just being just being able to be competible and have a better communication and better relationship to get back on track, for us to move back into with each other and move forward in our lives.
Can I ask a question, why did you break up in the first place?
Well, I don't. I don't. I don't necessarily think we never broke up. I think that's where the I don't know. I don't want to say that's a problem, but we never really broke up.
Well, what does that mean? How are you defining separation when you left? What was the agreement? What was the understanding?
I don't know. I guess we were I guess when we moved out, when we separated, we just said that we were just going to I don't know really, to be honest, I guess we were trying to figure it out as long as we go.
Okay, wait a minute, hold on, because now I'm confused. I moved out because I moved out because.
I moved out because we ultimately couldn't get along or a communication fell apart. We were on the same level.
What does that mean? What does that mean? Communication? What does that mean?
I guess we like maybe it was like it because I I cannot I'm able to articulate how I felt. So at that time, he was in school when we were living together, he was in schools and he was going home from school and working from home, so he spent a lot of time upstairs on a computer. I was downstairs, you know, I was pregnant at the time, taking care kids, and then I had the baby, taking care of the baby, and then I just felt like, you know, he never really contributed to the household where when we moved in, our agreement was for me to take care of the household age because he paid all the bills. I didn't pay any bills. And I think that's just the communication just fell apart, and I think I got overwhelmed in the situation and I could not express that to him, and then we just kind of fell off.
So I moved out because we couldn't communicate. I couldn't express my needs and wants. I was overwhelmed and couldn't express that, and he didn't contribute to the household. Is that but he paid all the bills, but he didn't contribute to the household. Break that down for me, what does that mean?
Well, maybe towards just taking care of the kids or the cooking, the cleaning. He didn't contribute any of that.
You mean, the man who was in school and working and paying all the bills didn't help you with the kids and the cooking and the cleaning.
Right, And I didn't see that then.
Okay, so you moved out. Are there any other reasons you moved out? No?
And well I couldn't know. It was mutual. We agreed that it would be best for us to separate before I guess.
Before mutual for us to separate. And did you define what that separation would look like?
No, we didn't.
So now two years later, you all are still You've got this entanglement going on, lack of clarity about what it is correct, lack of clarity about what you're doing, lack of clarity about where you're going, lack of clarity. So nothing has changed, but you want to get back in it under the same roof. Is that what I'm hearing you say? Yeah?
And I think a lot of it, yes, ma'am.
Yes, Okay, do you see how that could be a problem. Yes, Let me ask you a question that's going to seem totally random. Okay, And I don't care what your answer is. I just want to explore this a little bit. Is it that you didn't grow up with a father, or is it that your father was very dominating.
I didn't grow up with my father.
You don't know as a woman how to be in relationship with a man upon whom you are dependent, because if he paid all of the bills, you were dependent upon him, yes, which immediately drops him into the daddy role. But if you didn't grow up with a daddy, you don't know how to be present in authority or in the presence of authority. So you just become a little girl. And little girls usually don't complain to their daddy. Little girls sometimes don't know how to ask daddy what they want. For what they want, they'll whine and they'll complain to themselves and whatever whatever. So, but if you weren't in relationship with a man in a authority role in your life, you never developed that voice and that place to know how to be in relationship with a man that you consider to be an authority. Right, hmm. Interesting, we'll talk more about it when we come back. Welcome back to the r spot. Let's get back to the conversation. So the first thing I want you to know is he's not your daddy. That's number one, right, And if you've giving up the cookies to him, you have a right to ask what you want for what you want. Yeah, so what do you want?
What I want is for us to be able to communicate better, to move forward with our.
Relationship, communicate better. Well, first of all, we might want to explore a little bit. What is the relationship is that your man? Are you his woman? Are you just the mother of his children? Are you his girlfriend? Are you what is the relationship between the two of you? Are you a co parenting? Are you good friends? Friends with benefits? You got to get clear about that. What is the relationship?
Yeah, cause I feel like we're all of the above.
Actually, well what does he feel?
I don't know, And I think that's what I want to say. That's what I've been trying to figure out. But then when I asked him, is yeah, we work together, but then it's always but I feel like there's like an apprehensive there, like a hesitation.
Rather okay, and have you asked him about that? What is your hesitation?
No?
I haven't because little girls don't challenge their daddy. So the first thing that you have to find out to him, what is our relationship? How do you see our relationship? What are we doing here? You have to ask that question, yes, because you don't know if he got a girlfriend on the side, you don't know what he's doing. Does he have a key to your house? Do you have a key to his house? When do y'all get together? How do you get together? What is going on? You're like a carrot on a stick.
I guess that's where it falls in where we have trouble with spending time with each other because I guess because it's like I want to We try to spend time with each other, but then it's like, you know, some days I feel like I'd rather just be home alone that or I've had this face alone to myself. A lot of times I feel like I'd rather be alone, home alone rather well, is.
It possible that you all can be in a relationship and have separate households? Is that what you want or is that what he wants? Or is that workable for you? But it still means that you have to clarify what the relationship is again. Are you all just co parenting? Are you partners? Are you friends? With benefits. What are you got to get that stuff clear? And it can't just be you. You have to understand what it is that he wants, and you have to share with him what he wants. And then if both of you want the same things but there are obstacles between you, then you can also you can always get some support or some help to deal with the obstacles. And then what about the children? You got children bouncing around in here.
But I feel like that's also a big factor too. I have two teenage boys, the second teenage boys in him. They kind of bump hands a little.
Well, I guess so, because if you don't know who this man is in your life, how is your son supposed to know who this man is in his life? Is this an elder man in my life? My stepfather, my mother's friend who guides me, supports me. I mean, if you don't know who he is, how's your son supposed to know who he is?
Well, we've had that conversation multiple times, but I feel like we never get anywhere. And then we agree to, you know, let's spend time together, and then we'll spend a time together, and then life goes on, and then we fall back into what we were doing prior to that.
You might need some outside support because clearly there are things that are unspoken. Clearly there are things that are unsad. You can't even tell me why you separated other than he wasn't contruyet into the household besides paying all the bills. You know how many women would stay with a man who pays all the bills. A woman who's a stay at home mom, she'd be happy to cook and clean. Oh my goodness.
Yeah.
I want to encourage you to get clear about what you want and if you can have it with him, and he's not your father, you don't have to be afraid to let him go, nor do you have to hang on. If this is the man in your life, then you need to get clear about what it is that you want from the man in your life and see by asking if he's willing to provide those things and what does he want from the woman in his life, and if he can articulate that to you, if he can share that with you, then maybe you need to consider am I willing to be that for him? And you may not be able to do that by yourself. You may have to get some outside support you know, a counselor coach, therapist, whatever. Are you ready to have the conversation. Are you clear about what you want, because if not, I'm going to tell you don't have it until you are clear. You are clear. I want to be with him, but I want us to be in separate household. I want us to have more time together. I want us to continue. Be clear, because again, you're growing yourself up, so you don't know who you are becoming. You can only be who you are right now. So get clear about what it is that you want.
Okay, yes, thank you so much.
Let me know how you make out. Thank you, okay, my love, take care, bye bye. Why One of the reasons that we have challenges when it comes to communication, hearing, listening, speaking, is because we forget that there's an organic process going on in our relationships. Things are growing, things are falling off, things are coming into being, and we won't let things happen organically, and we try to communicate from what we think might happen or the fear of what won't happen. Let it happen organically and respond to the moment. Be aware of what you're listening to within yourself in the moment. Be aware of what you're hearing from the other person in the moment, not about what couldn't happen, what might happen, what didn't happen, what should happen the organic process. Communicate about that and not about the fears or the desperation or the past or the future. Organically, Let it happen organically. That's what my next caller is dealing with, fear or hesitation or resistance or judgment of the organic process. Greetings, be loved, and welcome to the R Spot. How can I support you today in moving through your relationship issue challenged dilemma?
Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. The question that I have so just a little bit briefly about me is I have been single for almost six years because I really wanted to spend some time working on myself and figuring out who I wanted and what I needed in a partnership. So I met someone about two years ago. We started great dating. Everything was great, and I'm trying my heartest like not to give up on somebody because I feel like in the past I just fil the talent too easy. But the situation I'm in now with this person we're coming up on two years and about six or so months ago they left their full time corporate job to pursue entrepreneurship. Unfortunately, it hasn't been working out in the way that they thought that it would, and so they're struggling a little bit financially now. And in that time, they've been pretty distant with me, and he said that he just really isn't feeling like much of a man right now because of him not being able to earn money in the same way and him feeling like a failure, and so he just doesn't have a capacity to show up for me. So my question is, do I stick around. Do I be a cheerleader and just kind of work with him as he gets over this hurdle, or do I just like really listen when he tells me I don't want to be in a relationship right now, or I don't have time for the relationship right now because of my finances.
So let me ask you a question. Okay, if a man says to you, I don't want to be in a relationship right now because I'm working on myself, I'm pursuing something. It's not looking the way I wanted to look, and I'm not feeling really good about myself right now. The man says that to you, do you listen to what he's saying or do you stick around and be his cheerleader.
I think I'll listen to what he's saying. I think for me in my house, I think in my mind, I guess like because we had a year and a half of like greatness and it was just kind of like, if to me, if we need to slow down on like going out or sending money or things like that, that's fine. But I don't know. I think that I don't know if I'm setting myself up for selure of having hope that when he does get it together that it will still be me that he wonts or if it's really he just decided I'm not the person and this is the excuse he's using.
What difference does it make a man has said to you, I don't want to be in relationship with you if it's because he found too gray hair under his chin, what difference does it make?
Yeah?
And how old are you?
Thirty four?
Thirty four? How long have you been thirty four?
In October?
Okay, since October you've been thirty four? But you've been in your life all your life? Right?
Yeah?
Did you waste any time in your life to get to thirty four?
I want to call it a waste, but I definitely made sure. I think I've made decisions that I wish I had done things differently, but I don't want to call anything like a waste of time.
Right. So, you've been with you thirty four years. You've made some mistakes that you could have done differently, but you think that thirty four years you've been with you is pretty good, right?
Yeah?
Okay, So why you convention over a year and a half you've been with somebody else. If you could put up with you for thirty four years, why can't you put up with somebody else and let it go for a year and a half?
That's true?
Is it? Is it true?
I think the reason for me is that I know what I have dated people in the past. I have very easily been like Nope, done with this person, done with this person, and didn't really fight or give it a try or work doing tough things. And I was just trying to not be that person anymore.
But what does the past have to do with the present moment? And a man who is saying I don't want to be in relationship right now for whatever reason. I found two gray hen or air on my chin. I'm trying to grow my penis another inch. I saw the moon and it filled me up with melancholy. What the difference does it make he don't want to be in relationship? Okay, and you stick around thinking that he can change his mind or it's going to be different, or he's not telling whatever. What part of you as a woman can't hear he doesn't want to be in relationship for whatever reason. We'll talk about that right after this break. Come back to the R spot. Let's pick up where we left off. I can't get past he don't want to be in relationship. I can't get past that. That would do it for me. I hear you love you mean it. You don't have to stop loving him, caring about him. But it's a year and a half. I've been with me for thirty four years, So if somebody is rejecting me, I'm gonna believe him.
Yeah, okay, Well that was easy.
And what do you want to investigate is why in the why can't you hear that?
I think that it's been hard to hear it, because we still communicate every day and we still talk and we still say I love you and everything, And so that's why I think it's been a little bit challenging. Like he even like since saying that he has even taken me to meet his parents. So I don't know, Like I think that the things that he says is saying.
Is nothing to do with you.
I love you, You're amazing. I'm not in a good place that I need to be in a better place. But I think that it hasn't been complete ignoring that's been happening, or complete like shutting off of communication. It's been like, oh, we're selling each other's lives, but I'm still talking to you about all these things and we're still doing everything else.
Well, maybe you only need to take a break. Maybe what you can say is I hear you saying you want to be in a better place, and I want that for you. But because of how I feel about you, I don't know how to navigate this. So let's take a ninety day break. And what that break looks like is we're not going to be talking to each other each day, We're not going to be going out, we're not going to be doing those things for at least ninety days, and then at the end of the ninety days we can reevaluate. Because I can't navigate this, tell them the truth. Okay, I don't know how to navigate this. So I'm hoping against hope that you'll get it together. But you have to know it doesn't do my woman. That's really good to hear. To be with a man who says he doesn't want to be in relationship. See what happens. Okay, what does that mean? Okay, I said.
Now I wrote it down.
It sounds like we just need to have a talk and a clear I'm not like a I mean, maybe a break will work. I've never been that type that comes back to something just because of like my own healing process.
I just like to really move forward.
So I don't know about the coming back in ninety days, but maybe that is something that I need to try that I've never tried before. But the problem is too I don't want to spend ninety days hopeful either, because I know.
You don't go on with your life.
Yeah, it's not that easy.
Go on with your life. Yeah, find something new to do in that ninety days. Take a knitting, Go get a fish, you got a dog, get on.
No, I do have a lot of things I could do to take of my time. I'm a PhD student, so lots going on by I understand what you mean.
But here is the thing. You have to let go in the ninety days, not hang on in the ninety days. You have to let go.
You have tips for letting go.
Make the choice. Hear what he's saying, and maybe in the ninety days you won't come back to an intimate, loving relationship. Maybe you'll be friends, maybe you'll be I don't know, distant cousins. But it's not clear. It's not clean right now. Yeah, it's not clear or clean because what he's speaking and what he's doing or two different things, which sends you into a tail spin. Let go, thanks, And even if every day you have to get up and say, I don't know what his name is, boo boo, I'm letting you go today. I wish you nothing but the best. I'm letting you go in my mind, I'm letting you go in my heart. When he calls, you look at the phone and you say, boo boo, I'm letting you go. I'm letting you go in your mind, my mind, I'm letting you go in my heart, I'm not taking your call.
Do you well?
A different question, how do you know, like even taking this person out of the picture, just like for my own knowledge and advice, how do you know when you're dating someone, what is something that is a barrier to work through versus this is not the one to be fighting for.
I never advise fighting for anybody. Okay, I allow things to happen organically. But what's keeping you in the relationship or what's keeping you hanging on is fear. Fear that you're doing the wrong thing, Fear that he's right one, Fear he's not the right one. Fear that you'll hang around and he won't show up or he won't work through. It's fear. So that's not love anyway. See, if he made the decision to quit his job to become an entrepreneur, what was that discussion and what was the expert there?
No, I think it was for him.
It was because he's Nigerian and so he felt like he was living out his parents' dream. And so he turned forty and on historieth birthday was just kind of like, I need to start living my life for myself because I've been doing it for everybody else, and so I think that's going to start with pursuing a career that I want to do now what my parents want me to do.
That was a great, great self honoring, self loving choice, It really was.
Yeah.
And the fact that he didn't think about the consequences, or he wasn't prepared, or he didn't look at all the contingencies. It's just a mistake and he'll have to figure that out, and you can stick around with him while he figures it out or not. Yeah, But if he's saying to you, I don't want to be in a relationship right now, then I'm why did you go meet his parents? And why are you still talking to him every day? What is that? Are you a glutton for punishment? How about this is not what I want? How about it's just that simple. Yeah, I don't want to be in a relationship with a man where I don't know if I'm coming or going, or if he's coming or going, or if we're coming or going. I don't want that. So I love you, but I've got to let go. Okay, gotta let go? And what's the butt it makes sense.
But no, I actually I don't have a butt. I'm just like listening. I think I'm just hearing probably what I already knew in my head.
Uh yeah, yeah, See, there's a distinction between hearing and listening. Your listening is what goes on internally inside of you. Your hearing is the sound that comes to you or the words that are delivered to you through another mechanism, in this way, through his voice. So you're listening is I don't want to do what I'm doing I did before. I want to be different and I want to give this a chance. So when you hear what he says, it bumps up against your listening and you start, well, am I doing what I did before? Am I being different? Or am I doing the same thing? But then you're not hearing what he is saying. Does that make sense to you?
It does? And I think that one thing that I left out too is when we had the conversation about that not being a relationship, the way in which he talked about it was I can't afford to take you out right now. I can't afford for us to move in and we provide right now. I can't afford for these things, and so I think my head was like, well, I'm making money right now and I can't. I mean, I'm not paying for nothing for him, But it was almost like, oh, you're You're making it seem like the financial piece is like I understand that finances are going to eb and flow throughout the longevity of any relationships, and so to me, even though I heard him saying like I don't want this relationship, the reason was because I can't provide X, Y and Z with you because of my finances. And I think I have been trying throughout this time and why I still met his mom, still talk to him. I have been trying to show him like, oh, like, you don't need to have this much money in order for us to have a meaningful relationship. But I don't think he sees it as that because of how much of a provider type of person that he is. But I do think that that is why I have been holding on of Like I heard the not wanting to be in a relationship reason differently in my head than maybe how.
He meant it.
But you're not hearing that you are involved with a man who measures his value in worth by what he does and what he can provide. You're not hearing that, and it doesn't matter what you think. That's what matters to him. So whether you'll stay together or don't stay together, you need to hear what he's saying, because should he get fired or become incapacitated, you got to understand that that's a blow to how he sees himself as a man. Doesn't matter what you think. Hear what he's saying. Trying to convince him that what he thinks and feels about himself doesn't matter to you. That's not going to work out either. He's giving you some really valuable information.
Here that doesn't change what his values are and what matter.
Said, but you're not hearing it. And sometimes that's what we do, and that's what throws communication off and then we blame communication. No, he's being very clear, I value myself as a man by what I do, what I have, and what I can give. That's how he values himself. Otherwise the conversation would have been I really want to go out and work on this entrepreneurial thing and see if I can make it work, and I really want to know if you'll hang in here with me. That's another possibility. It's going to look different. We're not gonna be able to go out like we used to, and I don't feel good about you as the woman paying for stuff, so we'll have to stay home. We won't be able to do those things. As long as this isn't working for me, that's another possibility. But he had that conversation, right, So he's giving you some valuable information about who he is, about his character, about his sense of self value, self worth, whether he got it from his parents or not. Some of it is cultural, yeah, but it's still information. Do you want to be with a man who values himself and measures his worth based on what he has and what he does? Is that who you want to be with?
I don't know. I guess I never really thought it.
I don't know.
I hadn't thought about it in that way, But I'm not sure. I don't have an answer for that.
Well, you don't have to have one, but it's just something to consider because that is what he is communicating.
Okay, see if.
The ninety days will work for you, and in that time, like I said, let go doesn't mean you can't reconnect, but let go. Maybe you just have a new normal in a relationship, and you don't have to stop loving him, you don't have to stop caring about him, but you do have to hear what he's saying and move accordingly and a way that works for you. Make it work for you. Okay, okay, you all right, my love, take good care, bye bye. When it comes to communication, we really have to learn how to hear what's being said as opposed to what we are listening to. You're listening takes place inside of you, and your hearing is your response to the information or the words that are coming from the outside. And you've got to make sure that you're listening is clear and that your hearing is clear, because if you confuse those two things, you're going to end up putting what you're listening to on the other person and make them responsible for what you're listening to, and you're totally ignore what it is that you're hearing from that. Oh, communication takes a bad rap, and that's because most of us don't know how to do it. I hope this has been helpful to someone, And if you have a question about this or any other relationship issue, you can call me live at seven seven five three zero seven seven seven sixty eight. Now be sure to follow me on social media for all of the calling times, and until then, stay in peace and not pieces. The R Spot is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.