Alright, so Patrick Madrid had an amazing convo with Dana, an atheist who called in with a pretty heavy question:

Dana’s Big Question:

"Can people come up with their own moral values without God?" He’s like, “Look, I don’t believe in God, so I think humans create their own morals. Isn’t this whole ‘God is moral’ thing just a ‘God of the gaps’ argument? Like, we’re uncomfortable with the moral mystery, so we make up a God to fill in the blank.”

Patrick’s Response:

He said that atheists can be good people. No one’s saying atheists are running wild in the streets. But here’s the thing: why should anyone bother being good without God? What's the deeper point?”

Basically, he said that while atheists can be decent, honest folks, they’re still borrowing from a moral system rooted in something bigger, whether they admit it or not. Without God, morality becomes more like, “I like this, I don’t like that,” and not something with actual weight behind it.

Dana’s Take:

Dana admits that atheists have a bit of a moral problem: if there’s no God, it’s all kind of subjective, right? It’s just humans deciding what’s good or bad. He also mentioned he hopes there’s an afterlife, but he’s not exactly banking on it.

Patrick’s Counter:

Patrick dropped a bombshell: without God, the world is basically one big animal kingdom. It’s just "survival of the fittest". There's no real "good" or "evil", just whatever works for you. He threw in this tough question: “If we’re just a bunch of neurons firing off in our brains, why should I care about what’s fizzing in your brain? Or mine, for that matter?” 

The Catholic Curveball:

Patrick wasn’t done. He said we all know deep down that stuff like truth, love, and justice are real, not just random feelings. And since those things can’t be physically measured, that’s a clue there’s something bigger than just nature, a.k.a. God. Then he added: God's grace is open to everyone, no matter how late in life they figure it out.

The Anne Frank Challenge:

Dana brought up a tough one: how is it that a man like Rudolf Höss (a Nazi) could repent at the last minute and go to heaven, but someone like Anne Frank, who didn’t believe in Jesus, might not since she was Jewish? Patrick didn’t flinch. He explained that God’s mercy is bigger than the worst sins. If you genuinely repent, even at the 11th hour, you can go to heaven. That’s the beauty of Christianity. If you knowingly reject God, yeah, that’s a different story.

Wrapping it Up:

Patrick ended on a hopeful note, basically telling Dana, “Hey man, I’m praying for you. And who knows? Maybe one day you’ll embrace Catholicism."