Your territory is sort of mental. It's your perception of yourself, and then your ego kicks in, and your emotion kicks in, and then you respond. And when you respond, in that moment, you're responding without reasoning. And the minute you respond without reasoning, you're no better than an animal. Sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't.

Your territory is sort of mental. It's your perception of yourself, and then your ego kicks in, and your emotion kicks in, and then you respond. And when you respond, in that moment, you're responding without reasoning. And the minute you respond without reasoning, you're no better than an animal. Sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't.

Welcome to the one you feed. Throughout time, great thinkers have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have, quotes like garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you think, ring true, and yet for many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity, self pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't have instead of what we do. We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their good wolf. Thanks for joining us. Our guest on this episode is Shane Parrish, an entrepreneur, the founder of the blog Farnham Street and host of the Knowledge Project podcast. His work has been featured in The New York Times, Wall Street Journal, and Forbes magazine. Today, Shane and Eric discuss his book Clear Thinking, Turning Ordinary Moments into Extraordinary Results.

Welcome to the one you feed. Throughout time, great thinkers have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have, quotes like garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you think, ring true, and yet for many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity, self pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't have instead of what we do. We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their good wolf. Thanks for joining us. Our guest on this episode is Shane Parrish, an entrepreneur, the founder of the blog Farnham Street and host of the Knowledge Project podcast. His work has been featured in The New York Times, Wall Street Journal, and Forbes magazine. Today, Shane and Eric discuss his book Clear Thinking, Turning Ordinary Moments into Extraordinary Results.

Hi, Shane, Welcome to the show.

Hi, Shane, Welcome to the show.

Hey Eric, thanks for having me.

Hey Eric, thanks for having me.

I'm excited to have you on. I've been following your log Farnhum Street for a long time and I was really excited when I heard you had a new book coming out and I wanted to talk with you about it. It's called Clear Thinking, Turning Ordinary Moments into Extraordinary Results. But before we go into that, let's start like we always do with the parable. In the parable, there's grandparent who's talking with their grandchild and they say, in life, there are two wolves inside of us that are always at battle. One is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery and love, and the other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the grandchild stops and they think about it for a second, and they look up at their grandparent and they say, well, which one wins? And the grandparent says, the one you feed. So I'd like to start off by asking you what that parable means to you in your life and in the.

I'm excited to have you on. I've been following your log Farnhum Street for a long time and I was really excited when I heard you had a new book coming out and I wanted to talk with you about it. It's called Clear Thinking, Turning Ordinary Moments into Extraordinary Results. But before we go into that, let's start like we always do with the parable. In the parable, there's grandparent who's talking with their grandchild and they say, in life, there are two wolves inside of us that are always at battle. One is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery and love, and the other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the grandchild stops and they think about it for a second, and they look up at their grandparent and they say, well, which one wins? And the grandparent says, the one you feed. So I'd like to start off by asking you what that parable means to you in your life and in the.

Work that you do. I love that parable. I had never actually heard it before until I listened to a couple episodes of this. I think there's a tension between these two competing factors in us, and we choose which one we feed. But really what we're doing is we're telling ourselves a story. That story. I believe that the most powerful story in the world is the one that we tell ourselves. And that story is also a choice. We tell ourselves that we are a good person, and we do good things, and we're open to love, and we're vulnerable and we have very little fear about I think that we're choosing to live a very different life than if we give up and we get up and we tell ourselves another story. And those stories just have the power to come true, right, not the positive ones, but definitely the negative ones. Like telling yourself a good story doesn't mean you're going to get a good results or good outcome, but telling yourself a negative story almost virtually ensures that you're going to get a bad outcome. Yeah, And so often when I meet people, I find that they're just stuck in the story it's like you've got this song on loop in your head, and that story is powerful in terms of determining your behavior.

Work that you do. I love that parable. I had never actually heard it before until I listened to a couple episodes of this. I think there's a tension between these two competing factors in us, and we choose which one we feed. But really what we're doing is we're telling ourselves a story. That story. I believe that the most powerful story in the world is the one that we tell ourselves. And that story is also a choice. We tell ourselves that we are a good person, and we do good things, and we're open to love, and we're vulnerable and we have very little fear about I think that we're choosing to live a very different life than if we give up and we get up and we tell ourselves another story. And those stories just have the power to come true, right, not the positive ones, but definitely the negative ones. Like telling yourself a good story doesn't mean you're going to get a good results or good outcome, but telling yourself a negative story almost virtually ensures that you're going to get a bad outcome. Yeah, And so often when I meet people, I find that they're just stuck in the story it's like you've got this song on loop in your head, and that story is powerful in terms of determining your behavior.

So one of the things that you are really good at is taking a rational position on things and really working with the best knowledge, having the most clear picture frame of reference. And I'm curious how that works for you with telling yourself a part positive story when you feel like perhaps your fears are drawing on a lot of data that seems to make sense.

So one of the things that you are really good at is taking a rational position on things and really working with the best knowledge, having the most clear picture frame of reference. And I'm curious how that works for you with telling yourself a part positive story when you feel like perhaps your fears are drawing on a lot of data that seems to make sense.

Well, like, we have a book launch coming out right October third, and as we were talking about it, to me, this is fear, this is you know, there's a part of me that is I feel like I'm getting naked in front of a million people and I'm taking off all my clothes and I'm exposed to the judgments and the criticisms and the tomatoes and all of these negative things. And then there's another story I can tell myself, which is, you know, I've done research for fifteen to twenty years on decision making, and I think I come at it in a unique perspective. And if I can come at it in a unique perspective in a way that I haven't seen other people come at it, maybe that's helpful for somebody else like me, And maybe the act of writing that book, which for me was an act of reflection, an amalgamation of all of these thoughts over years. Can I share that with other people? Am I willing to let the work be enough? Am I willing to just put the work out there? I know I've done the work. I know I've worked hard on this. I know all of the things that I control I've done. And am I willing to be vulnerable and put it out in the world? And I think that that's the life that I want my kids to live. In a way, they give me strength to do that, right because I know they're watching, And that gives me a little bit more strength to tell myself a better story, and that story can become empowering, and I think in this case, it sort of allows me the courage to put that out in the world.

Well, like, we have a book launch coming out right October third, and as we were talking about it, to me, this is fear, this is you know, there's a part of me that is I feel like I'm getting naked in front of a million people and I'm taking off all my clothes and I'm exposed to the judgments and the criticisms and the tomatoes and all of these negative things. And then there's another story I can tell myself, which is, you know, I've done research for fifteen to twenty years on decision making, and I think I come at it in a unique perspective. And if I can come at it in a unique perspective in a way that I haven't seen other people come at it, maybe that's helpful for somebody else like me, And maybe the act of writing that book, which for me was an act of reflection, an amalgamation of all of these thoughts over years. Can I share that with other people? Am I willing to let the work be enough? Am I willing to just put the work out there? I know I've done the work. I know I've worked hard on this. I know all of the things that I control I've done. And am I willing to be vulnerable and put it out in the world? And I think that that's the life that I want my kids to live. In a way, they give me strength to do that, right because I know they're watching, And that gives me a little bit more strength to tell myself a better story, and that story can become empowering, and I think in this case, it sort of allows me the courage to put that out in the world.

Yeah. You know, the thing I often tell myself when it's getting into these stories is that we don't know the future, right, and since we don't know the future, why not use an empowering story? Which is easier to say than do some of the time when emotion runs really strong, but it certainly you know, makes more sense if I'm making it up anyway right now, because I don't know, make it up in a way that is supportive of things turning out.

Yeah. You know, the thing I often tell myself when it's getting into these stories is that we don't know the future, right, and since we don't know the future, why not use an empowering story? Which is easier to say than do some of the time when emotion runs really strong, but it certainly you know, makes more sense if I'm making it up anyway right now, because I don't know, make it up in a way that is supportive of things turning out.

Okay, Yeah, I agree with that.

Okay, Yeah, I agree with that.

You mentioned your kids a second ago and one of the things that you wrote in the book. It was later in the book, but I loved it, and you said, there's two effective questions. I asked my kids to slow down and have them think, One do you want to put water or gasoline on this situation?

You mentioned your kids a second ago and one of the things that you wrote in the book. It was later in the book, but I loved it, and you said, there's two effective questions. I asked my kids to slow down and have them think, One do you want to put water or gasoline on this situation?

And two?

And two?

Is this behavior going to get you what you want? And I mean those are great questions for us, not just for children, but in general, and they seem to sum up a lot of what your book is about in a way.

Is this behavior going to get you what you want? And I mean those are great questions for us, not just for children, but in general, and they seem to sum up a lot of what your book is about in a way.

Yeah, I try to get them to just pause and think. I mean, we're all animals, so biologically, you know, we share these tendencies with other animals. Where a hier article we're territorial, we're self preserving, you know, we're ritualistic, and so often what happens is we have these ordinary moments that lead to disastrous sort of outcomes. And I see it with my kids, right they start bickering and then it becomes this slow escalation. They're about fourteen months apart, and one person will slight the other and then before you know it, they're nearly wrestling on the floor. And I was like, so frustrated with this, and I was like, they don't know that they're escalating. If they knew they were escalating, my theory was they would choose not to. And all the energy that they're spending escalating with each other comes at the expense of things they want to do, whether it's video games or homework or play with their friends or anything else. So all this energy is just being wasted. It's this wasted energy and it's kind of unproductive. And so I learned to start asking them like is this behavior going to get you closer or further away from what you want? And that was a really effective question, and then we sort of shortened it to like gas or water? Are you putting gasoline on this situation? Which means I'm escalating it and I'm not judging what they're doing. I'm just making them pause and reflect, right, So it's not about me interjecting and saying don't do that, because I find you know, as they get older, that method of parenting you switch to coaching. Yes, So My kids are now thirteen and fourteen, So if I start with that telling them what to do, that's not very effective. But if I pause and say, hey, gas or water, then they can think for themselves and they can choose whether to move forward with what they're doing. But now they're more aware of the consequences. It's like somebody I tap them on the shoulder and be like, you're making a decision right now. Is this what you want to be doing? Yeah? And then they're like, no, this isn't what I want to be doing, And they come to that in conclusion on their own, which I think is very powerful for them.

Yeah, I try to get them to just pause and think. I mean, we're all animals, so biologically, you know, we share these tendencies with other animals. Where a hier article we're territorial, we're self preserving, you know, we're ritualistic, and so often what happens is we have these ordinary moments that lead to disastrous sort of outcomes. And I see it with my kids, right they start bickering and then it becomes this slow escalation. They're about fourteen months apart, and one person will slight the other and then before you know it, they're nearly wrestling on the floor. And I was like, so frustrated with this, and I was like, they don't know that they're escalating. If they knew they were escalating, my theory was they would choose not to. And all the energy that they're spending escalating with each other comes at the expense of things they want to do, whether it's video games or homework or play with their friends or anything else. So all this energy is just being wasted. It's this wasted energy and it's kind of unproductive. And so I learned to start asking them like is this behavior going to get you closer or further away from what you want? And that was a really effective question, and then we sort of shortened it to like gas or water? Are you putting gasoline on this situation? Which means I'm escalating it and I'm not judging what they're doing. I'm just making them pause and reflect, right, So it's not about me interjecting and saying don't do that, because I find you know, as they get older, that method of parenting you switch to coaching. Yes, So My kids are now thirteen and fourteen, So if I start with that telling them what to do, that's not very effective. But if I pause and say, hey, gas or water, then they can think for themselves and they can choose whether to move forward with what they're doing. But now they're more aware of the consequences. It's like somebody I tap them on the shoulder and be like, you're making a decision right now. Is this what you want to be doing? Yeah? And then they're like, no, this isn't what I want to be doing, And they come to that in conclusion on their own, which I think is very powerful for them.

You mentioned earlier that you believe you bring something interesting and new to decision making, and it's one of the things I've always thought that there was a lot of content in your world about was decision making. But you make a really important point in this book, which is we're taught to focus on the big decisions rather than the moments where we don't even realize we're making a choice. Say more about that.

You mentioned earlier that you believe you bring something interesting and new to decision making, and it's one of the things I've always thought that there was a lot of content in your world about was decision making. But you make a really important point in this book, which is we're taught to focus on the big decisions rather than the moments where we don't even realize we're making a choice. Say more about that.

Yeah, So if you know you're making a decision, we generally get it correct. So most books on decision making, most classes on decision making are all about being more rational, you know, and they're not very practical. There's spreadsheets, there's sort of like decision tree. I've never really witnessed anybody fill all this out or do that. But what they're really doing is they're taking you out of the moment and they're getting you to pause and think. But if you know, you should be pausing and thinking. We're generally pretty good, we're directionally correct. But a lot of the time the things that get us into trouble we don't know that we're making a decision. We don't know the future of that decision. There are these small tidbits, whether it's celebrities going to court battle with each other over statues in their yard. You can imagine being at home with your partner or your spouse, and you know, what starts as emptying the dishwasher ends up into not speaking with each other. And that's that slow escalation again in these ordinary moments. And what happens in these ordinary moments is we don't know we're making a decision. If somebody taps us on the shoulder and says, hey, gas or water, you're gonna pause and be like, no, I don't want this to happen. I don't want to derail my weekend because of a dishwasher incident. And all the energy that you're spending on those moments comes at the expense of enjoying your weekend with your partner, or being on vacation or all of these things. And so my belief is that these ordinary moments actually accumulate into these advantages or disadvantages. And the advantages are, do people want to work with me and am hard to get along with? Do I do the little things right? And if I can do those little things right and I get these little moments right, I can put more of my energy into what matters, and I can spend less time sort of fixing these mistakes. Because if you think about why we're so busy these days, we're stressed, full of anxiety, and often what we're doing is we're fixing these little ordinary moments, these little lapses that we have in these moments. Right, if you're at work and a colleague slights you and says something you know slightly derogatory, Well, you're biological. You're instinctively become Territorial is not physical like maybe it is with a wolf, but your territory is sort of mental. It's your perception of yourself, and then your ego kicks in and your emotion kicks in, and then you respond. And when you respond in that moment, you're responding without reasoning. And the minute you respond without reasoning, you're no better than an animal. Sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't. But after that meeting, now you got to go make amends. You got to work with this person. But not only do I have to spend time repairing that relationship, I have to repair the relationship with everybody else in the room because I just demonstrated that I might be difficult to work with that people have to be careful what they say to me. They're not going to tell me the truth. And all of these byproducts and those tend to consume so much of our time.

Yeah, So if you know you're making a decision, we generally get it correct. So most books on decision making, most classes on decision making are all about being more rational, you know, and they're not very practical. There's spreadsheets, there's sort of like decision tree. I've never really witnessed anybody fill all this out or do that. But what they're really doing is they're taking you out of the moment and they're getting you to pause and think. But if you know, you should be pausing and thinking. We're generally pretty good, we're directionally correct. But a lot of the time the things that get us into trouble we don't know that we're making a decision. We don't know the future of that decision. There are these small tidbits, whether it's celebrities going to court battle with each other over statues in their yard. You can imagine being at home with your partner or your spouse, and you know, what starts as emptying the dishwasher ends up into not speaking with each other. And that's that slow escalation again in these ordinary moments. And what happens in these ordinary moments is we don't know we're making a decision. If somebody taps us on the shoulder and says, hey, gas or water, you're gonna pause and be like, no, I don't want this to happen. I don't want to derail my weekend because of a dishwasher incident. And all the energy that you're spending on those moments comes at the expense of enjoying your weekend with your partner, or being on vacation or all of these things. And so my belief is that these ordinary moments actually accumulate into these advantages or disadvantages. And the advantages are, do people want to work with me and am hard to get along with? Do I do the little things right? And if I can do those little things right and I get these little moments right, I can put more of my energy into what matters, and I can spend less time sort of fixing these mistakes. Because if you think about why we're so busy these days, we're stressed, full of anxiety, and often what we're doing is we're fixing these little ordinary moments, these little lapses that we have in these moments. Right, if you're at work and a colleague slights you and says something you know slightly derogatory, Well, you're biological. You're instinctively become Territorial is not physical like maybe it is with a wolf, but your territory is sort of mental. It's your perception of yourself, and then your ego kicks in and your emotion kicks in, and then you respond. And when you respond in that moment, you're responding without reasoning. And the minute you respond without reasoning, you're no better than an animal. Sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't. But after that meeting, now you got to go make amends. You got to work with this person. But not only do I have to spend time repairing that relationship, I have to repair the relationship with everybody else in the room because I just demonstrated that I might be difficult to work with that people have to be careful what they say to me. They're not going to tell me the truth. And all of these byproducts and those tend to consume so much of our time.

It's interesting this idea of these little moments. I've shared this on the show before. Part of my backstory is I was a homeless heroin addict at twenty four and there's a moment where I made a decision to go into long term treatment. I was presented with the option to go. I originally said no. I had a moment of clarity and I said yes. And my life changed, right, And I'm always like, if you made the Hollywood version of my life, that would be the key scene, right, But that scene is only relevant because of the thousands and thousands of other decisions I've made since then to continue moving in that direction. And so it's nice to look at these big moments, and there are moments where something significant happens. But as you point out, so much of our life is this slow accumulation of positive or negative.

It's interesting this idea of these little moments. I've shared this on the show before. Part of my backstory is I was a homeless heroin addict at twenty four and there's a moment where I made a decision to go into long term treatment. I was presented with the option to go. I originally said no. I had a moment of clarity and I said yes. And my life changed, right, And I'm always like, if you made the Hollywood version of my life, that would be the key scene, right, But that scene is only relevant because of the thousands and thousands of other decisions I've made since then to continue moving in that direction. And so it's nice to look at these big moments, and there are moments where something significant happens. But as you point out, so much of our life is this slow accumulation of positive or negative.

Can we talk about that for a second, Sure, if you're open to it, because I bet you the first time you did Heroin, you didn't wake up in the morning and go I'm going to do Heroin. You were in an ordinary moment and you made a choice, and that choice had a huge ramification on you later in life.

Can we talk about that for a second, Sure, if you're open to it, because I bet you the first time you did Heroin, you didn't wake up in the morning and go I'm going to do Heroin. You were in an ordinary moment and you made a choice, and that choice had a huge ramification on you later in life.

Yeah, I mean addiction was an accumulation for sure, you know, like anybody else starts out like I want to hang out with my friends and get high, and increment upon increment upon increment that built until it was, you know, quite an edifice.

Yeah, I mean addiction was an accumulation for sure, you know, like anybody else starts out like I want to hang out with my friends and get high, and increment upon increment upon increment that built until it was, you know, quite an edifice.

Once those moments accumulate, they're really hard to undo, right as you went through.

Once those moments accumulate, they're really hard to undo, right as you went through.

Really hard to undo. And there's the other thing that speaks to addiction and also what you were talking about is that these things amplify each other. So the downward addiction spiral is at a certain juncture, you start to feel bad about yourself for what you're doing. So you feel bad about yourself for what you're doing, so you feel terrible, and the only way you know how to deal with feeling terrible is to get high, which then makes you feel worse about yourself for doing it. And it's a downward spiral. And I think that in the decisions that you're talking about too. I do believe that you're right that if people can pause and think, they've got a better chance. But how often do we see people double down and double down? You know, they get out of that work meeting and instead of being like, oh, I made the mistake here, it's like Bob was out of line, right, and they double down on Bob being out of line. And the more they do that, the more they have to do it right. It amplifies it. And I think that's often. You know, the dishwasher thing is when a dishwasher leads to fighting all night is often because there is an amplifiction of things that have been building.

Really hard to undo. And there's the other thing that speaks to addiction and also what you were talking about is that these things amplify each other. So the downward addiction spiral is at a certain juncture, you start to feel bad about yourself for what you're doing. So you feel bad about yourself for what you're doing, so you feel terrible, and the only way you know how to deal with feeling terrible is to get high, which then makes you feel worse about yourself for doing it. And it's a downward spiral. And I think that in the decisions that you're talking about too. I do believe that you're right that if people can pause and think, they've got a better chance. But how often do we see people double down and double down? You know, they get out of that work meeting and instead of being like, oh, I made the mistake here, it's like Bob was out of line, right, and they double down on Bob being out of line. And the more they do that, the more they have to do it right. It amplifies it. And I think that's often. You know, the dishwasher thing is when a dishwasher leads to fighting all night is often because there is an amplifiction of things that have been building.

Yeah, we'd rather feel right than be right. I use these little catchphrases with myself just as a reminder to encapsulate these ideas. It's almost the compression of a big idea. And in this case, one of the things that I use with myself is outcome over ego.

Yeah, we'd rather feel right than be right. I use these little catchphrases with myself just as a reminder to encapsulate these ideas. It's almost the compression of a big idea. And in this case, one of the things that I use with myself is outcome over ego.

That's a great one.

That's a great one.

Am I working towards the best outcome? Or am I working towards proving myself being right? And when I think about proving myself being right, I'm on the wrong side of right. Yeah. And I used to do this all the time. I started at an intelligence agency and I was a programmer, and if I wasn't I was a knowledge worker. And if I wasn't right, then what was I was worthless? Right? Because I'm hired to be right. I'm hired to do this job, I'm hired to know the answer. I'm hired to do all of these things. And I have all this self worth and all this ego built up in that. And if I'm not right, what am I? And I noticed, you know, when I started working for myself, I was spending so much time trying to prove myself right. I'm looking for as a trek, facts that back up my ideas. I'm trying to prove other people wrong, and all of a sudden, when I'm working for myself, I'm like, I just really want the best outcome. I don't care whose idea it is. Yeah, because all of a sudden, I'm invested, and my investment is in the outcome, and it's not in me as a person, it's not in my ego. And I think that that little phrase, that little compression of an idea, is very powerful to remind ourselves with.

Am I working towards the best outcome? Or am I working towards proving myself being right? And when I think about proving myself being right, I'm on the wrong side of right. Yeah. And I used to do this all the time. I started at an intelligence agency and I was a programmer, and if I wasn't I was a knowledge worker. And if I wasn't right, then what was I was worthless? Right? Because I'm hired to be right. I'm hired to do this job, I'm hired to know the answer. I'm hired to do all of these things. And I have all this self worth and all this ego built up in that. And if I'm not right, what am I? And I noticed, you know, when I started working for myself, I was spending so much time trying to prove myself right. I'm looking for as a trek, facts that back up my ideas. I'm trying to prove other people wrong, and all of a sudden, when I'm working for myself, I'm like, I just really want the best outcome. I don't care whose idea it is. Yeah, because all of a sudden, I'm invested, and my investment is in the outcome, and it's not in me as a person, it's not in my ego. And I think that that little phrase, that little compression of an idea, is very powerful to remind ourselves with.

Yeah, I love that phrase in your book, The Wrong Side of Right. There's a great phrase. And I heard it. I was like, that is exactly it. Like in Recovery, we used a phrase all the time. It's a corollary. It's not quite the same thing, but it was would you rather be right?

Yeah, I love that phrase in your book, The Wrong Side of Right. There's a great phrase. And I heard it. I was like, that is exactly it. Like in Recovery, we used a phrase all the time. It's a corollary. It's not quite the same thing, but it was would you rather be right?

Would you rather be happy? Yes?

Would you rather be happy? Yes?

You know you had to look a lot of the time and be like, well, okay, which is it I want to be Do I want to be right? Or do I want to be happy? And oftentimes the desire to insist that I'm right is going to make me unhappy. Yeah, because it's going to make someone else be wrong in my life. And who wants that, you know? And that's where egos dig in and the battle deepens.

You know you had to look a lot of the time and be like, well, okay, which is it I want to be Do I want to be right? Or do I want to be happy? And oftentimes the desire to insist that I'm right is going to make me unhappy. Yeah, because it's going to make someone else be wrong in my life. And who wants that, you know? And that's where egos dig in and the battle deepens.

When we have these moments, when we dig in, when we entrench, we're not thinking, right, We're just responding, and our emotions are in charge. Our ego is in charge, our biology is in charge. And I think that's normal and natural. Right. We are animals at the end of the day. We have these animal tendencies, these animal instincts. What separates humans is our ability to push the clutch, to interrupt stimulus in response for just a second and in that moment reason instead of react.

When we have these moments, when we dig in, when we entrench, we're not thinking, right, We're just responding, and our emotions are in charge. Our ego is in charge, our biology is in charge. And I think that's normal and natural. Right. We are animals at the end of the day. We have these animal tendencies, these animal instincts. What separates humans is our ability to push the clutch, to interrupt stimulus in response for just a second and in that moment reason instead of react.

How do you think about emotion and reasoning? And this question is going to take a little bit longer to ask than I might like, but I'll get there because one of the things that we know from looking at various studies of different people is if you take somebody in you more or less they lose the emotion in their brain. They become incapable of making decisions right. So emotion is playing a role in decision making right, and it does tell us something to do about what's important to us, what matters to us. So how do you avoid getting into sort of a binary where it's like I can't be emotional, I have to be rational, right, how do you think about that? Because I agree with you that the ability to pause and look at the emotions and see what they are and then choose a response is incredibly important. Some people do that at the expense of having any emotion, right, They try and squelch their emotion, which has all sorts of other challenges. So how do you think about that?

How do you think about emotion and reasoning? And this question is going to take a little bit longer to ask than I might like, but I'll get there because one of the things that we know from looking at various studies of different people is if you take somebody in you more or less they lose the emotion in their brain. They become incapable of making decisions right. So emotion is playing a role in decision making right, and it does tell us something to do about what's important to us, what matters to us. So how do you avoid getting into sort of a binary where it's like I can't be emotional, I have to be rational, right, how do you think about that? Because I agree with you that the ability to pause and look at the emotions and see what they are and then choose a response is incredibly important. Some people do that at the expense of having any emotion, right, They try and squelch their emotion, which has all sorts of other challenges. So how do you think about that?

I think it goes back to almost the opening of this episode, right where are your emotions in charge? Or are you in charge of your emotions? I'm not advocating an approach where you're not emotional and you're robotic, you know, I'm just advocating an approach where am I making decisions? Are my emotions making my decisions? Or am I making my decisions?

I think it goes back to almost the opening of this episode, right where are your emotions in charge? Or are you in charge of your emotions? I'm not advocating an approach where you're not emotional and you're robotic, you know, I'm just advocating an approach where am I making decisions? Are my emotions making my decisions? Or am I making my decisions?

Yeah?

Yeah?

And if the answer is my emotions, then that's fine, but that's probably not going to get me the outcome that I want. And if I'm making decisions fully aware of those emotions, I can feel those emotions, I can have those emotions. But often if you feel emotional and you can opt out for a second. In opting out of that second, you can make that decision later. You don't have to make it when you're emotional. You can walk away. If you look at athletes, athletes have to perform, they have a timeframe involved in their performance, and they get emotional just like the rest of us. So what do they do. They have rituals built into their game. If you watch any NBA player, they bounce the ball the same number of times before they shoot a free throw. If you watch a tennis player, they bounce the ball the same number of times before they serve. And what they're doing in that moment. And I've talked to a lot of head coaches about this. What's happening is whether the last play was the best play of their life the worst play, Whether the ref was totally unfair to them or fair to them, doesn't matter. What matters is this, I'm going to center myself and I'm going to focus. And that's what we need to do to make decisions when we're emotional. We need to take a breath, we need to pause, we need to center ourself. We need to use a powerful method of doing that, which is ritual.

And if the answer is my emotions, then that's fine, but that's probably not going to get me the outcome that I want. And if I'm making decisions fully aware of those emotions, I can feel those emotions, I can have those emotions. But often if you feel emotional and you can opt out for a second. In opting out of that second, you can make that decision later. You don't have to make it when you're emotional. You can walk away. If you look at athletes, athletes have to perform, they have a timeframe involved in their performance, and they get emotional just like the rest of us. So what do they do. They have rituals built into their game. If you watch any NBA player, they bounce the ball the same number of times before they shoot a free throw. If you watch a tennis player, they bounce the ball the same number of times before they serve. And what they're doing in that moment. And I've talked to a lot of head coaches about this. What's happening is whether the last play was the best play of their life the worst play, Whether the ref was totally unfair to them or fair to them, doesn't matter. What matters is this, I'm going to center myself and I'm going to focus. And that's what we need to do to make decisions when we're emotional. We need to take a breath, we need to pause, we need to center ourself. We need to use a powerful method of doing that, which is ritual.

So give me some examples of other types of rituals that might help us manage emotion. I mean, the term that I like is emotional regulation, right, it's the ability to regulate my emotions and to your point, not let them be in charge. Let them do what they need to do, and learn what I can learn from them, and feel what I feel. But there is a time and a place and a degree to all of this. So what are some things for you when you're feeling really emotional that ritual wise that allow you to take the temperature down a little bit.

So give me some examples of other types of rituals that might help us manage emotion. I mean, the term that I like is emotional regulation, right, it's the ability to regulate my emotions and to your point, not let them be in charge. Let them do what they need to do, and learn what I can learn from them, and feel what I feel. But there is a time and a place and a degree to all of this. So what are some things for you when you're feeling really emotional that ritual wise that allow you to take the temperature down a little bit.

Well, So one thing I do is like after meetings, I have a ritual where I just sort of compress the meeting into what's happened, how am I feeling. And it's that compression that dampens that emotion because it allows me to feel that emotion. And I usually do that when I'm walking to my next meeting or when I'm logging on to the next meeting. So it just doesn't have to be this big ten thing. Just can be this, Okay, I'm feeling this, I should have said this, I should have done that, and I can just sort of compress that meeting into these sort of ideas. Another one that I use that is really effective for me personally is just in the mornings, taking five to ten minutes, whether I'm sitting in a hot tub or whether I'm going for a walk or whatever I'm doing, and I'm just breathing, and I'm focusing on my breath, and I'm centering myself on the day. I'm trying to forget about everything for me yesterday. I'm trying to just put myself in the here and now. But I think rituals are very individualistic, and I think it's important that we come up with our own rituals. I've seen powerful rituals around people taking a breath before speaking, and in that pause, that moment, they just sort of ask themselves, how am I feeling. You need a lot of discipline to start the rituals, but once the rituals sort of take hold, rituals become this powerful force where you turn your desired behavior into your default behavior. And I've used this with kids and homework. My kids, right, so, every day after school, starting in grade seven, they would come home, they would shower, they would sit down, and they would do their homework. And every day. It was a fight for about two months, and then all of a sudden, I didn't have to say anything. And they still do it now two years later. They come home, they shower, they sit down, they do their homework and they start working on the stuff they need to do because that becomes their ritual around getting home. But it's also very grounding for them because I've noticed on days where we don't do that, where we have an errand to run or an appointment, they're sort of like out of sorts. Right, It's like my ritual has been interrupted, and they become a little bit more emotional, which is really interesting because that's their method of decompressing the school day.

Well, So one thing I do is like after meetings, I have a ritual where I just sort of compress the meeting into what's happened, how am I feeling. And it's that compression that dampens that emotion because it allows me to feel that emotion. And I usually do that when I'm walking to my next meeting or when I'm logging on to the next meeting. So it just doesn't have to be this big ten thing. Just can be this, Okay, I'm feeling this, I should have said this, I should have done that, and I can just sort of compress that meeting into these sort of ideas. Another one that I use that is really effective for me personally is just in the mornings, taking five to ten minutes, whether I'm sitting in a hot tub or whether I'm going for a walk or whatever I'm doing, and I'm just breathing, and I'm focusing on my breath, and I'm centering myself on the day. I'm trying to forget about everything for me yesterday. I'm trying to just put myself in the here and now. But I think rituals are very individualistic, and I think it's important that we come up with our own rituals. I've seen powerful rituals around people taking a breath before speaking, and in that pause, that moment, they just sort of ask themselves, how am I feeling. You need a lot of discipline to start the rituals, but once the rituals sort of take hold, rituals become this powerful force where you turn your desired behavior into your default behavior. And I've used this with kids and homework. My kids, right, so, every day after school, starting in grade seven, they would come home, they would shower, they would sit down, and they would do their homework. And every day. It was a fight for about two months, and then all of a sudden, I didn't have to say anything. And they still do it now two years later. They come home, they shower, they sit down, they do their homework and they start working on the stuff they need to do because that becomes their ritual around getting home. But it's also very grounding for them because I've noticed on days where we don't do that, where we have an errand to run or an appointment, they're sort of like out of sorts. Right, It's like my ritual has been interrupted, and they become a little bit more emotional, which is really interesting because that's their method of decompressing the school day.

Now, Hi, everybody, it's Jinny. You've probably heard me with Eric on some episodes of The One You Feed. I have a question for you. Are you your own worst critic? I mean, when you pay attention to how you talk to yourself, is it just kind of mean? And do you often feel beat down and just heavy inside? If so, I truly understand the struggle. I used to believe that relating to myself this way was what kept me performing at any acceptable level, and without it, I thought I'd drift off into the deep end and become a failure in pretty much every aspect of my life. But it turns out that's actually one of the inner critics worst lies that it helps you. I mean, maybe short term, you get a push and do well, but long term it's corrosive and it actually keeps you from living to your potential. I've created a free three part video series that teaches you how to get to the other side of the inner critic like I have, and you can grab it today. Just head to oneyfeed dot net slash Inner Critic. I'm sharing this with you as not only an inner critic survivor, but also a certified mindfulness teacher, and you can learn to relate to yourself differently, living with an inner lightness and not a sense of being at battle with yourself. And life is so much better when you're a friend to yourself, I promise. So go to onefeed dot net slash inner Critic for my free mini course see you in the videos.

Now, Hi, everybody, it's Jinny. You've probably heard me with Eric on some episodes of The One You Feed. I have a question for you. Are you your own worst critic? I mean, when you pay attention to how you talk to yourself, is it just kind of mean? And do you often feel beat down and just heavy inside? If so, I truly understand the struggle. I used to believe that relating to myself this way was what kept me performing at any acceptable level, and without it, I thought I'd drift off into the deep end and become a failure in pretty much every aspect of my life. But it turns out that's actually one of the inner critics worst lies that it helps you. I mean, maybe short term, you get a push and do well, but long term it's corrosive and it actually keeps you from living to your potential. I've created a free three part video series that teaches you how to get to the other side of the inner critic like I have, and you can grab it today. Just head to oneyfeed dot net slash Inner Critic. I'm sharing this with you as not only an inner critic survivor, but also a certified mindfulness teacher, and you can learn to relate to yourself differently, living with an inner lightness and not a sense of being at battle with yourself. And life is so much better when you're a friend to yourself, I promise. So go to onefeed dot net slash inner Critic for my free mini course see you in the videos.

You say each moment puts you in a better or worse position to handle the future. It's that positioning that eventually makes life easier or harder. Talk to me about what you mean by positioning.

You say each moment puts you in a better or worse position to handle the future. It's that positioning that eventually makes life easier or harder. Talk to me about what you mean by positioning.

Yeah, putting yourself in the right position is so important and it's a key element to sort of clear thinking. Right. So, one of the most beneficial skills in life is learning to put yourself in a good position. And think about it this way. When you're in a good position, all of your options available are great. And when you're in a bad position, you need like a Hail Mary. Right, you're like praying for something to work out. You have no good options. And if you put Warren Buffett in a consistently bad position, he's going to look very average. But what he does, and this is sort of where this idea came from, is he's constantly in a good position. And so a good position means you're never forced by circumstances to do something you don't want to do. So if we take this and we apply it to decision making, well, how does that impact you? Well, all the stuff that we learn about decision making is how to be rational, how to make the best choice in the moment. But if your choices are all bad, it doesn't matter that you pick the best of the bad choices. Right, You don't want to be in a city. How do I avoid this situation? I don't put myself in a position where I'm consistently making good decisions. And often the people who are writ a lot are just people that they're not predicting what the future is. They're positioning themselves for multiple possible futures. And it's such a powerful sort of concept. Right, So we talked about Buffett, we talked about a more practical example, maybe with my kids, is what it means to do your best? Right, parents are listening, you have kids. Your kids come home, they have a bad score on their test, and they said, I did my best. And what they mean in that moment was I did my best in the hour that I sat down for my test. What they don't mean is that they put themselves in a position to be successful. And so I've defined this with my kids, as you know, you are in a position for success before you even take the test. It's the moment when you sit down, Have I done all the things I control? You think about Tom Brady or another athlete. You know, they put themselves in a position all week, They do the work, They eat healthy, they sleep, they practice well. For my kids, it's the same thing, right, did I study, did I work hard? Am I in an argument with my brother? Am I eating healthy? Am I sleeping well? And we do this in life, right. I might not know what my next job is, I might not know what the next sort of level of my career path is, but I know, hey, there's probably some skills that I can go out today and get in advance. I can put myself in a position so if the opportunity ever comes, I can take advantage of it. Or think about it this way. If you like investing, and the Acme Brick Co. Is the number one brick company in your community, and you're really interested in this, and you know it's always just been too expensive, and then one day the owner knox on your door and he's like, I'll sell it to you for two times earnings. And you're like, well, this is the bargain of a lifetime. But you go to your bank account and you have no money. So you might make the right decision, but you're not in a position to take advantage of it, so you're going to get the same outcome as if you made a bad decision. Almost you want to put yourself in a position where you're you're not predicting what's going to happen in the future, but no matter what happens in the future, you're always going to look right because you just pivot and change with the environment, and you're never forced by circumstances into doing something that you don't want to do. And I think if you look at all the sort of like greats or titans of decision making, if you want to call them, that the people who just generally consistently make good decisions, they're never forced by circumstances to do something they don't want to do.

Yeah, putting yourself in the right position is so important and it's a key element to sort of clear thinking. Right. So, one of the most beneficial skills in life is learning to put yourself in a good position. And think about it this way. When you're in a good position, all of your options available are great. And when you're in a bad position, you need like a Hail Mary. Right, you're like praying for something to work out. You have no good options. And if you put Warren Buffett in a consistently bad position, he's going to look very average. But what he does, and this is sort of where this idea came from, is he's constantly in a good position. And so a good position means you're never forced by circumstances to do something you don't want to do. So if we take this and we apply it to decision making, well, how does that impact you? Well, all the stuff that we learn about decision making is how to be rational, how to make the best choice in the moment. But if your choices are all bad, it doesn't matter that you pick the best of the bad choices. Right, You don't want to be in a city. How do I avoid this situation? I don't put myself in a position where I'm consistently making good decisions. And often the people who are writ a lot are just people that they're not predicting what the future is. They're positioning themselves for multiple possible futures. And it's such a powerful sort of concept. Right, So we talked about Buffett, we talked about a more practical example, maybe with my kids, is what it means to do your best? Right, parents are listening, you have kids. Your kids come home, they have a bad score on their test, and they said, I did my best. And what they mean in that moment was I did my best in the hour that I sat down for my test. What they don't mean is that they put themselves in a position to be successful. And so I've defined this with my kids, as you know, you are in a position for success before you even take the test. It's the moment when you sit down, Have I done all the things I control? You think about Tom Brady or another athlete. You know, they put themselves in a position all week, They do the work, They eat healthy, they sleep, they practice well. For my kids, it's the same thing, right, did I study, did I work hard? Am I in an argument with my brother? Am I eating healthy? Am I sleeping well? And we do this in life, right. I might not know what my next job is, I might not know what the next sort of level of my career path is, but I know, hey, there's probably some skills that I can go out today and get in advance. I can put myself in a position so if the opportunity ever comes, I can take advantage of it. Or think about it this way. If you like investing, and the Acme Brick Co. Is the number one brick company in your community, and you're really interested in this, and you know it's always just been too expensive, and then one day the owner knox on your door and he's like, I'll sell it to you for two times earnings. And you're like, well, this is the bargain of a lifetime. But you go to your bank account and you have no money. So you might make the right decision, but you're not in a position to take advantage of it, so you're going to get the same outcome as if you made a bad decision. Almost you want to put yourself in a position where you're you're not predicting what's going to happen in the future, but no matter what happens in the future, you're always going to look right because you just pivot and change with the environment, and you're never forced by circumstances into doing something that you don't want to do. And I think if you look at all the sort of like greats or titans of decision making, if you want to call them, that the people who just generally consistently make good decisions, they're never forced by circumstances to do something they don't want to do.

Yeah, And I think, you know, for a lot of people hearing that, I think the response might be, well, I've already sort of got myself into a less than optimal position here right right, and so what do I do with that? Because I'm not in a good position? Where do we start working from there?

Yeah, And I think, you know, for a lot of people hearing that, I think the response might be, well, I've already sort of got myself into a less than optimal position here right right, and so what do I do with that? Because I'm not in a good position? Where do we start working from there?

You have to start where you're at, right, You have to start in the position that you're currently in. But if you think about every moment as strengthening or weakening your position, yep, your rate of improvement matters more than where you are in the current moment. How do I accelerate my rate of improvement? Stop the decline? How do I improve? And for everybody that's going to be different. You might be paying off your credit card bills. It might be you know, downsizing your house, be saving more money, it might all of these different things add to your position. And you know which areas of your position you probably feel weakest because they're the ones you want to avoid talking about. They're the ones you probably feel a little bit of shame around. If you're having a hard time visualizing where you might be ill positioned, imagine like a camera crew following you around all day documenting your success. Well, what would you not want them to see? And that might be a good angle for Oh, how can I improve my position? Right? It might be you're lazy getting out of bed in the morning, and a way to improve your position is start to learn something new in that one hour. Instead of that film crew watching you lay and roll around in bed on your phone for an hour and a half before you get out of bed, it's all of a sudden, you're getting up, you're learning something new, you're challenging yourself, or maybe you're just going for a walk. I think that there's always something we can do to better our position. There's never a moment where I don't think and do that. And that's not to say it should dictate your entire life either, but yes.

You have to start where you're at, right, You have to start in the position that you're currently in. But if you think about every moment as strengthening or weakening your position, yep, your rate of improvement matters more than where you are in the current moment. How do I accelerate my rate of improvement? Stop the decline? How do I improve? And for everybody that's going to be different. You might be paying off your credit card bills. It might be you know, downsizing your house, be saving more money, it might all of these different things add to your position. And you know which areas of your position you probably feel weakest because they're the ones you want to avoid talking about. They're the ones you probably feel a little bit of shame around. If you're having a hard time visualizing where you might be ill positioned, imagine like a camera crew following you around all day documenting your success. Well, what would you not want them to see? And that might be a good angle for Oh, how can I improve my position? Right? It might be you're lazy getting out of bed in the morning, and a way to improve your position is start to learn something new in that one hour. Instead of that film crew watching you lay and roll around in bed on your phone for an hour and a half before you get out of bed, it's all of a sudden, you're getting up, you're learning something new, you're challenging yourself, or maybe you're just going for a walk. I think that there's always something we can do to better our position. There's never a moment where I don't think and do that. And that's not to say it should dictate your entire life either, but yes.

Yep, yeah, that tends to be a pretty foundational belief of mine, which is that there's always a move towards the better It may not be as big a move as you would want. The distance to travel may seem insurmountable, but there's always a move that is towards the better position. And back to that question you ask your kids, right, is this going to get you what you want? Am I doing something today that's improving?

Yep, yeah, that tends to be a pretty foundational belief of mine, which is that there's always a move towards the better It may not be as big a move as you would want. The distance to travel may seem insurmountable, but there's always a move that is towards the better position. And back to that question you ask your kids, right, is this going to get you what you want? Am I doing something today that's improving?

You know?

You know?

There's always something, some small step, whether you're in the deep depths of depression or addiction, or you're at the very top of your industry. Right, I mean, I think that's true for all of us.

There's always something, some small step, whether you're in the deep depths of depression or addiction, or you're at the very top of your industry. Right, I mean, I think that's true for all of us.

When you were saying that, the thing that came to mind for me was one of the reasons we have trouble improving our position is because we want it improved. Now. Yes, it's the same element of human nature that exists everywhere. I have another one of those little catchphrases I use in these moments, which is a lack of patience changes the outcome. A lack of patience changes the outcome by wanting something faster than naturally like. We often know how to accomplish the things we want to accomplish, but they take longer than we would like, or we're starting later in life than we would like, and so what we seek in these moments is like I'm behind. We feel behind. It's an unconscious feeling, and we want to catch up. So if you're out of position, you want to catch up. What are you going to do. You're going to chase secrets, You're going to chase hacks, You're going to chase quick fixes because you want to get there rapidly. You want the real estate course that's going to make you success. You buy all these products and you never seem to go anywhere because you're avoiding the work of doing what you need to do to improve your position, which is going to take time. It's going to take energy, and you're going to get your knees scraped, and that's just part of the process. And you have to learn to invest in that process and know that it's going to take time and take pleasure in the fact that every day you're proving your position.

When you were saying that, the thing that came to mind for me was one of the reasons we have trouble improving our position is because we want it improved. Now. Yes, it's the same element of human nature that exists everywhere. I have another one of those little catchphrases I use in these moments, which is a lack of patience changes the outcome. A lack of patience changes the outcome by wanting something faster than naturally like. We often know how to accomplish the things we want to accomplish, but they take longer than we would like, or we're starting later in life than we would like, and so what we seek in these moments is like I'm behind. We feel behind. It's an unconscious feeling, and we want to catch up. So if you're out of position, you want to catch up. What are you going to do. You're going to chase secrets, You're going to chase hacks, You're going to chase quick fixes because you want to get there rapidly. You want the real estate course that's going to make you success. You buy all these products and you never seem to go anywhere because you're avoiding the work of doing what you need to do to improve your position, which is going to take time. It's going to take energy, and you're going to get your knees scraped, and that's just part of the process. And you have to learn to invest in that process and know that it's going to take time and take pleasure in the fact that every day you're proving your position.

Yep, you say the space between stimulus and response, one of two things can happen. You can consciously pause and apply reason, where you can seede control and execute a default behavior. The problem is our default behavior often makes things worse. Let's talk about what is a default behavior, and then we can explore the four default behaviors that you lay out in the book. I mean, there's certainly more of them, but I think you've done a nice job of sort of capturing the big hitters.

Yep, you say the space between stimulus and response, one of two things can happen. You can consciously pause and apply reason, where you can seede control and execute a default behavior. The problem is our default behavior often makes things worse. Let's talk about what is a default behavior, and then we can explore the four default behaviors that you lay out in the book. I mean, there's certainly more of them, but I think you've done a nice job of sort of capturing the big hitters.

So examples of default behaviors. Our emotion is in charge, and we've talked about this. It could be fear, it could be something else. Another example is ego right. We're often making decisions we're on the wrong side of right. We just want to be right. It's not anything that we're doing, it's just sort of who we are as a person. They're social right. There's a social default, which is when we blindly sort of conform to the group norms or the expectations. And inertia is such a powerful one habit for me. We're comfort seeking. The habits that served us years ago may no longer serve us, and we want to resist those changes. And these defaults are really powerful and they cause us to sort of stay in place if they're making the decisions for us instead of us making the decisions.

So examples of default behaviors. Our emotion is in charge, and we've talked about this. It could be fear, it could be something else. Another example is ego right. We're often making decisions we're on the wrong side of right. We just want to be right. It's not anything that we're doing, it's just sort of who we are as a person. They're social right. There's a social default, which is when we blindly sort of conform to the group norms or the expectations. And inertia is such a powerful one habit for me. We're comfort seeking. The habits that served us years ago may no longer serve us, and we want to resist those changes. And these defaults are really powerful and they cause us to sort of stay in place if they're making the decisions for us instead of us making the decisions.

Yeah, yeah, let's talk a little bit more about each of those, because there's a lot to unpack there. I'm going to jump to the ego default for a second. And see if you could tell us a story about mister Rolex. I think that's where it came in the book under ego default.

Yeah, yeah, let's talk a little bit more about each of those, because there's a lot to unpack there. I'm going to jump to the ego default for a second. And see if you could tell us a story about mister Rolex. I think that's where it came in the book under ego default.

If I remember currently because I wrote the book a couple of years ago. That was when it was a cashier and this guy would come in and he would just be rate everybody. He would just be like better than everybody else, right, he'd illegally park he'd come in. He was very flashy. He's like that stereotypical person that irritates us all And one day he said to me, this Rolex doesn't pay for itself. Hurry the fuk up. I don't know if I can swear on here. Hurry up, man, it's done now.

If I remember currently because I wrote the book a couple of years ago. That was when it was a cashier and this guy would come in and he would just be rate everybody. He would just be like better than everybody else, right, he'd illegally park he'd come in. He was very flashy. He's like that stereotypical person that irritates us all And one day he said to me, this Rolex doesn't pay for itself. Hurry the fuk up. I don't know if I can swear on here. Hurry up, man, it's done now.

I'm just kidding, go right in.

I'm just kidding, go right in.

And I responded right like, because I'm like, who is this guy to tell me to do this? And said something you know in the moment that I wasn't thinking at all. I was just responding, I'm like, you're not better than me. This isn't right. And on the way home that night, you know, he's got his ego. I've got my ego. If we're talking on the level of ego, I mean, we're just not going to go anywhere I'm not going to get what I want. I'm not getting closer to what I want, which was a paycheck at the time to pay for university. He's not getting what he wants, which is faster service and you know, to be treated like the way that he wanted to be treated. Nobody wins, like there's no outcome here that's positive. Right walking home that night, I sort of rationalize this because we are hierarchical, and I reorganized the world in a way where I came out on top of him. I mean, I have a job anymore, but at least I'm not an asshole, and so I felt better about myself. And we often do this, right, We do this in everyday moments where we tell ourselves these stories, and these stories are sort of like, at least I'm not I'm better then at least I didn't do this. I really didn't want that. And these stories aren't true. They're just us protecting that very vulnerable part of us that is sort of yeah, maybe it is. There's an element of truth to all of this, which is why we can believe the stories we tell ourselves. But at the end of the day, again, are we moving towards or further away from the outcome that we want to get. Can we wrap our ego instead of wrapping our ego into our self identity and our territory about ourselves, Can we wrap our ego into an outcome? And if we can wrap that ego into an outcome, I think we're going to get a lot farther in life.

And I responded right like, because I'm like, who is this guy to tell me to do this? And said something you know in the moment that I wasn't thinking at all. I was just responding, I'm like, you're not better than me. This isn't right. And on the way home that night, you know, he's got his ego. I've got my ego. If we're talking on the level of ego, I mean, we're just not going to go anywhere I'm not going to get what I want. I'm not getting closer to what I want, which was a paycheck at the time to pay for university. He's not getting what he wants, which is faster service and you know, to be treated like the way that he wanted to be treated. Nobody wins, like there's no outcome here that's positive. Right walking home that night, I sort of rationalize this because we are hierarchical, and I reorganized the world in a way where I came out on top of him. I mean, I have a job anymore, but at least I'm not an asshole, and so I felt better about myself. And we often do this, right, We do this in everyday moments where we tell ourselves these stories, and these stories are sort of like, at least I'm not I'm better then at least I didn't do this. I really didn't want that. And these stories aren't true. They're just us protecting that very vulnerable part of us that is sort of yeah, maybe it is. There's an element of truth to all of this, which is why we can believe the stories we tell ourselves. But at the end of the day, again, are we moving towards or further away from the outcome that we want to get. Can we wrap our ego instead of wrapping our ego into our self identity and our territory about ourselves, Can we wrap our ego into an outcome? And if we can wrap that ego into an outcome, I think we're going to get a lot farther in life.

I love that story because, as you said, I'm walking home and I think, at least I'm not like him, I'm better than him, you know. And you say, in that moment, I rearrange the world in such a way that I, the newly unemployed high school student without a car or a lavish wristwatch came out on top. And what I just love about that is that's what we all do, right, we all, if we're not careful, we rearrange the world in such a way that we are right. And you may do deep search on your values and be like, that's not the kind of person I want to be, and you know, like that's different totally than the ego response of this doesn't feel good. So I'm going to make myself better than you, you know. And boy do we do that.

I love that story because, as you said, I'm walking home and I think, at least I'm not like him, I'm better than him, you know. And you say, in that moment, I rearrange the world in such a way that I, the newly unemployed high school student without a car or a lavish wristwatch came out on top. And what I just love about that is that's what we all do, right, we all, if we're not careful, we rearrange the world in such a way that we are right. And you may do deep search on your values and be like, that's not the kind of person I want to be, and you know, like that's different totally than the ego response of this doesn't feel good. So I'm going to make myself better than you, you know. And boy do we do that.

A lot all the time. It's so crazy. It happens with promotions, it happens with dating, It happens in every element of our life. We tell ourselves the story that we're right, that we're a good person, that we did the right thing, that we thought about it right, that it just worked out that way by chance, or they didn't deserve it because they're not a nice person, but we're a nice person. And we just unconsciously do this all the time. And I think it's sort of like it's self defeating because it takes us away from again, are we getting closer farther away from what we want to achieve?

A lot all the time. It's so crazy. It happens with promotions, it happens with dating, It happens in every element of our life. We tell ourselves the story that we're right, that we're a good person, that we did the right thing, that we thought about it right, that it just worked out that way by chance, or they didn't deserve it because they're not a nice person, but we're a nice person. And we just unconsciously do this all the time. And I think it's sort of like it's self defeating because it takes us away from again, are we getting closer farther away from what we want to achieve?

Yeah, you sort of talk about how complaining just is us arguing with the way the world is, which is usually a losing strategy.

Yeah, you sort of talk about how complaining just is us arguing with the way the world is, which is usually a losing strategy.

Yeah. I remember. I think maybe the story you refering to as I went to my mentor I can get a promotion, and I said, well, you know, I justified it in a very similar way to what we're talking about right now, And he's like, you're just arguing with reality, like this has happened, right, This isn't a strategy, This isn't effective. It's not moving you closer to what you want to get. You just have to deal with it. And the longer you're arguing with it, the more you're putting off dealing with it. And you know, often we just don't deal with it at all because by the time we've maybe like toned down our emotions a little bit, and we've come to realize that we might have had a contribution to this whole thing playing out the way that it did, including me. I mean, my contribution was escalating at the grocery store, right, Like, I totally I had a contribution there, but I couldn't see my contribution because my ego and my emotions are in charge. And by the time that those sort of like dissipate and I've felt them and I can see this situation more clearly for what it was. Well, now I've moved on to the next story I'm telling myself, so I never really go back and and sort of adjust to reality.

Yeah. I remember. I think maybe the story you refering to as I went to my mentor I can get a promotion, and I said, well, you know, I justified it in a very similar way to what we're talking about right now, And he's like, you're just arguing with reality, like this has happened, right, This isn't a strategy, This isn't effective. It's not moving you closer to what you want to get. You just have to deal with it. And the longer you're arguing with it, the more you're putting off dealing with it. And you know, often we just don't deal with it at all because by the time we've maybe like toned down our emotions a little bit, and we've come to realize that we might have had a contribution to this whole thing playing out the way that it did, including me. I mean, my contribution was escalating at the grocery store, right, Like, I totally I had a contribution there, but I couldn't see my contribution because my ego and my emotions are in charge. And by the time that those sort of like dissipate and I've felt them and I can see this situation more clearly for what it was. Well, now I've moved on to the next story I'm telling myself, so I never really go back and and sort of adjust to reality.

As we're talking, I'm thinking often about in my own life where my emotions do overwhelm me and I don't act the way that I want to act, you know, And I'm thinking about how even after the fact, we can still pause, we can still reflect, and we can go try and fix, you know, Like I'll sometimes just say to my partner Jenny, like, that was not the me I want to be to you, like, I was upset, and so the me that came out is not the me that I want to be. Here's who I want to be, here's my intention. I fell short this time. I'm going to keep trying to do better, you know, And that a bit even after we've become overwhelmed, right, because we're describing here a high level of emotional maturity and regulation where you always pause, you're always able to stop doing the difficult thing, and for many many people that's not the case. But just even if that happens, there's still room for repair, there's still room for reflection, and there's still room to change our position.

As we're talking, I'm thinking often about in my own life where my emotions do overwhelm me and I don't act the way that I want to act, you know, And I'm thinking about how even after the fact, we can still pause, we can still reflect, and we can go try and fix, you know, Like I'll sometimes just say to my partner Jenny, like, that was not the me I want to be to you, like, I was upset, and so the me that came out is not the me that I want to be. Here's who I want to be, here's my intention. I fell short this time. I'm going to keep trying to do better, you know, And that a bit even after we've become overwhelmed, right, because we're describing here a high level of emotional maturity and regulation where you always pause, you're always able to stop doing the difficult thing, and for many many people that's not the case. But just even if that happens, there's still room for repair, there's still room for reflection, and there's still room to change our position.

To use your terminology, that is a very interesting angle to positioning right, because it makes your relationship better, makes it stronger, and it means that you're open to sort of being right in a different way. Right. It means you're open to getting a better outcome. You're open to it doesn't have to be me that's right all the time. And not only does that make you more vulnerable, it makes her more vulnerable, and it makes your relationship more vulnerable and more powerful, and it makes it stronger. So we talk about unexpected events. You can't predict the future, but if your relationship is wronger, you can withstand a lot more possible futures. And I think that's a brilliant sort of example. I do this with my kids too, right, Like, it takes a lot of courage to go in and apologize, so at least it does for me. Yeah, you know, but I'm like, I'm trying to model this behavior exactly.