I've tried habit tracking on my phone and it has not ever worked. Maybe I've done like a week or two, but it just doesn't work because that's a place of distraction for me.

I've tried habit tracking on my phone and it has not ever worked. Maybe I've done like a week or two, but it just doesn't work because that's a place of distraction for me.

Welcome to the one you feed Throughout time. Great thinkers have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have. Quotes like garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you think ring true, and yet for many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity, self pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't have instead of what we do. We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed They're good Wolf. We hope you'll enjoy this episode from the archive. Thanks for joining us. Our guest on this episode is Stephen Guys, an international best selling author, blogger, and entrepreneur. His books have been translated into seventeen languages, and he's the author of many of them, including the one him and Eric discuss here Elastic Habits, how to Create Smarter habits that adapt to your day.

Welcome to the one you feed Throughout time. Great thinkers have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have. Quotes like garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you think ring true, and yet for many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity, self pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't have instead of what we do. We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed They're good Wolf. We hope you'll enjoy this episode from the archive. Thanks for joining us. Our guest on this episode is Stephen Guys, an international best selling author, blogger, and entrepreneur. His books have been translated into seventeen languages, and he's the author of many of them, including the one him and Eric discuss here Elastic Habits, how to Create Smarter habits that adapt to your day.

Hi Stephen, welcome to the show.

Hi Stephen, welcome to the show.

Hey Eric, thanks for having me.

Hey Eric, thanks for having me.

As I was telling you in the pre show conversation, I'm really excited to talk with you. Your book is called Elastic Habits, How to Create Smarter Habits that adapt to your Day, And I was saying that so much of what you have so well articulated in this book I've sort of learned over my coaching years, but never put it together as concisely as I think you have. So I think this is gonna be a great conversation. But before we get to that, we'll start like we always do, with the parable. There is a grandfather who's talking with his grandson. He says, in life, there are two wolves inside of us that are always at battle. One is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery and love, and the other's a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the grandson stops and he thinks about it for a second. He looks up at his grandfather and he says, well, grandfather, which one wins? And the grandfather says the one you feed. So I'd like to start off by asking you what that parable means to you in your life and in the work that you do.

As I was telling you in the pre show conversation, I'm really excited to talk with you. Your book is called Elastic Habits, How to Create Smarter Habits that adapt to your Day, And I was saying that so much of what you have so well articulated in this book I've sort of learned over my coaching years, but never put it together as concisely as I think you have. So I think this is gonna be a great conversation. But before we get to that, we'll start like we always do, with the parable. There is a grandfather who's talking with his grandson. He says, in life, there are two wolves inside of us that are always at battle. One is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery and love, and the other's a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the grandson stops and he thinks about it for a second. He looks up at his grandfather and he says, well, grandfather, which one wins? And the grandfather says the one you feed. So I'd like to start off by asking you what that parable means to you in your life and in the work that you do.

Well, Being that I've written about habits for the last decade, that's where my mind instantly goes, because you can definitely think about good habits and bad habits being two metaphorical wolves inside of you, because when you feed a habit, it grows, and like the parable says, you feed the good wolf that grows if you need the bad wolf that grows. And every single person in this world has both good and bad habits, and every day we are tasked with the choice of which of those are going to feed. And I think something that a lot of people miss is that bad habits also serve us in some way there's a benefit or else we wouldn't ever do a bad habit because it would just be bad. But bad habits do serve certain needs or at least once, So it's actually a more difficult choice than it should be.

Well, Being that I've written about habits for the last decade, that's where my mind instantly goes, because you can definitely think about good habits and bad habits being two metaphorical wolves inside of you, because when you feed a habit, it grows, and like the parable says, you feed the good wolf that grows if you need the bad wolf that grows. And every single person in this world has both good and bad habits, and every day we are tasked with the choice of which of those are going to feed. And I think something that a lot of people miss is that bad habits also serve us in some way there's a benefit or else we wouldn't ever do a bad habit because it would just be bad. But bad habits do serve certain needs or at least once, So it's actually a more difficult choice than it should be.

Most of your writing, at least in this book, and I think in the mini Habits before that is on positive habits that we can do. But while we're on the subject of bad habits, say a little bit more about if somebody wants to look at, you know, breaking a bad habit, whether it be something like too much time on their iPhone or playing video games to or biting their nails or any number of things, where's the place to start, you know, what's kind of the entry point.

Most of your writing, at least in this book, and I think in the mini Habits before that is on positive habits that we can do. But while we're on the subject of bad habits, say a little bit more about if somebody wants to look at, you know, breaking a bad habit, whether it be something like too much time on their iPhone or playing video games to or biting their nails or any number of things, where's the place to start, you know, what's kind of the entry point.

That's a great and difficult question. One of the reasons I've written primarily about good habits is because they're a lot simpler than bad habits. Like it's hard to give just broad bad habit advice because I mean, some bad habits you could say, are like life threatening addictions and those that require clinical care. So yes, yeah, that's one reason why I hesitate to give you know, specific but general advice. However, my approach is first to establish good habits that especially ones that can substitute for bad habits in areas that you struggle with, because I think a lot of people their instinct is to just try to cut something out of their lives, and just like that sounds like they're cutting something out of their lives and leaving a big hole there. Because, as I said in the beginning of the podcast, bad habits do fill some needs. So in my first book Many Habits. That was kind of my approach to say, if we can form a lot of good habits that fulfill a lot of our needs, they will naturally push out a lot of the bad habits, especially passive ones such as you know, laziness or inactivity, maybe watching TV.

That's a great and difficult question. One of the reasons I've written primarily about good habits is because they're a lot simpler than bad habits. Like it's hard to give just broad bad habit advice because I mean, some bad habits you could say, are like life threatening addictions and those that require clinical care. So yes, yeah, that's one reason why I hesitate to give you know, specific but general advice. However, my approach is first to establish good habits that especially ones that can substitute for bad habits in areas that you struggle with, because I think a lot of people their instinct is to just try to cut something out of their lives, and just like that sounds like they're cutting something out of their lives and leaving a big hole there. Because, as I said in the beginning of the podcast, bad habits do fill some needs. So in my first book Many Habits. That was kind of my approach to say, if we can form a lot of good habits that fulfill a lot of our needs, they will naturally push out a lot of the bad habits, especially passive ones such as you know, laziness or inactivity, maybe watching TV.

Yep, yep. That all makes total sense. I have a history in addiction, as many listeners will know, and I'll go on podcasts and somebody will be like, well, if somebody wants to get over their addiction, what do they need to do? And I'm like, well, that's a pretty complex conversation, like you know, and you're right, because bad habits are on the spectrum of something that is a minor challenge to as you said, life threatening addiction. Everything gets summed up in that habit. But I also agree very much with what you said about they're serving some need, So we've got to figure out if we're going to take them away, what is the need that at least they want served. They often don't anymore that they want served, and how do we meet that. But let's move into your latest book, Elastic Habits, because I think what you've written in this book is really valuable and I said to you before the show. I often say to clients, if you want to maintain something over the long term, you have to have a curious mix of stubbornness and flexibility. The stubbornness is like, I'm going to do this, I'm going to stick with it. The flexibility is all right, life throws a lot of different things at us, and so we've got to be flexible. But you take this to a different level and you get us into both vertical and lateral flexibility with habits, which allows us to really accommodate for the changing things in life, our time, how much time we have, where we are, our location. But you also in your vertical talk about how we handle movements and motivation, and I think this is a really powerful idea that I'd like to explore. But let's start by sort of talking about what do you mean by elastic habits.

Yep, yep. That all makes total sense. I have a history in addiction, as many listeners will know, and I'll go on podcasts and somebody will be like, well, if somebody wants to get over their addiction, what do they need to do? And I'm like, well, that's a pretty complex conversation, like you know, and you're right, because bad habits are on the spectrum of something that is a minor challenge to as you said, life threatening addiction. Everything gets summed up in that habit. But I also agree very much with what you said about they're serving some need, So we've got to figure out if we're going to take them away, what is the need that at least they want served. They often don't anymore that they want served, and how do we meet that. But let's move into your latest book, Elastic Habits, because I think what you've written in this book is really valuable and I said to you before the show. I often say to clients, if you want to maintain something over the long term, you have to have a curious mix of stubbornness and flexibility. The stubbornness is like, I'm going to do this, I'm going to stick with it. The flexibility is all right, life throws a lot of different things at us, and so we've got to be flexible. But you take this to a different level and you get us into both vertical and lateral flexibility with habits, which allows us to really accommodate for the changing things in life, our time, how much time we have, where we are, our location. But you also in your vertical talk about how we handle movements and motivation, and I think this is a really powerful idea that I'd like to explore. But let's start by sort of talking about what do you mean by elastic habits.

Well maybe not everyone knows this, but one of the first synonyms for elastic is resilient, and that's what elastic habits really means. Resilient habits. Typically people do what they'll say, I'm going to do one hundred push ups a day for thirty days or whatever. They generally pick a static target and they try to hit that target every single day, and if something goes wrong, if they're not able to hit that specific target, what happens They fail? The habit's gone and they know they'll try again a month later or maybe next year for a new year's resolution. So in elastic habits kind of ditches that whole mindset of we have to pick this one habit and even even one queue. But that's more technical. I don't know if we want to get into that elastic habits, say, instead of having one wind condition, why don't we have nine? Like why are we limiting ourselves to this one specific point of progress as if it's magical, Like it's generally just an arbitrary number that people have picked for no other reason than it's like an even number like ten or fifty or one hundred.

Well maybe not everyone knows this, but one of the first synonyms for elastic is resilient, and that's what elastic habits really means. Resilient habits. Typically people do what they'll say, I'm going to do one hundred push ups a day for thirty days or whatever. They generally pick a static target and they try to hit that target every single day, and if something goes wrong, if they're not able to hit that specific target, what happens They fail? The habit's gone and they know they'll try again a month later or maybe next year for a new year's resolution. So in elastic habits kind of ditches that whole mindset of we have to pick this one habit and even even one queue. But that's more technical. I don't know if we want to get into that elastic habits, say, instead of having one wind condition, why don't we have nine? Like why are we limiting ourselves to this one specific point of progress as if it's magical, Like it's generally just an arbitrary number that people have picked for no other reason than it's like an even number like ten or fifty or one hundred.

Yeah, you talk about flexibility being so important. You say flexibility is strength. So in what ways is flexibility strength?

Yeah, you talk about flexibility being so important. You say flexibility is strength. So in what ways is flexibility strength?

One of the main ways is it enables improvisation, which is absolutely key in life, because whose life goes exactly a according to plan? And yet we'd still plan, which is fine, But I think it's better to plan to be flexible if that makes sense to plan to have different like, oh, if this happens, this is what I'm going to do. If this happens, this is what I'm going to do. So in that way, flexibility is strength because you're not easily stopped if you're prepared for the different types and levels of obstacles that you're going to face.

One of the main ways is it enables improvisation, which is absolutely key in life, because whose life goes exactly a according to plan? And yet we'd still plan, which is fine, But I think it's better to plan to be flexible if that makes sense to plan to have different like, oh, if this happens, this is what I'm going to do. If this happens, this is what I'm going to do. So in that way, flexibility is strength because you're not easily stopped if you're prepared for the different types and levels of obstacles that you're going to face.

So when we talk about flexibility, let's talk about the first type of flexibility, which you call lateral flexibility. Explain to us what lateral flexibility means.

So when we talk about flexibility, let's talk about the first type of flexibility, which you call lateral flexibility. Explain to us what lateral flexibility means.

Well, I have a really good story. It's a short story, but it's a good story about lateral flexibility.

Well, I have a really good story. It's a short story, but it's a good story about lateral flexibility.

Please.

Please.

I was on a cruise ship one time and I went into the gym. Cruise ships or like miniature cities, so they have gyms and basically anything you can need. You can even get a haircut. So I went into the gym and you know, I'm there working out and I look over. I see a girl with her entire leg is in a cast and she's over there working out harder than I am, And I'm like, oh my gosh, she's incredible, Like who works out with their leg in a cast? But it makes sense because you know, she still has her upper body. She can work out with that In a nutshell, That's what lateral flexibility is. She broke her leg, so she said, Okay, I was gonna do squats today, but clearly that's not happening, so I'm gonna work out my upper body. Lateral flexibility is giving yourself several different options to achieve the same general goal, which in that case is exercise.

I was on a cruise ship one time and I went into the gym. Cruise ships or like miniature cities, so they have gyms and basically anything you can need. You can even get a haircut. So I went into the gym and you know, I'm there working out and I look over. I see a girl with her entire leg is in a cast and she's over there working out harder than I am, And I'm like, oh my gosh, she's incredible, Like who works out with their leg in a cast? But it makes sense because you know, she still has her upper body. She can work out with that In a nutshell, That's what lateral flexibility is. She broke her leg, so she said, Okay, I was gonna do squats today, but clearly that's not happening, so I'm gonna work out my upper body. Lateral flexibility is giving yourself several different options to achieve the same general goal, which in that case is exercise.

I've shared this before, I think, on the show. But an example of lateral flexibility in my own life was I used to travel for work, and the places I worked I did software, but we implemented the software in these huge warehouses. And so you know, my goal or my habit is movement, right, So if I could, I'd go to the gym in the morning, and if they had a pool, i'd swim. If they had a workout room, I might get on the treadmill as sort of My other option was I would just walk as much as I could in this giant warehouse all day, you know. So I had different ways to meet that goal because my conditions were always changing. Right, what hotel am I at. It's a different hotel, What do they have, What time does the workday start? When you're on site? Sometimes it starts at nine, sometimes it starts at six. So that was the lateral flexibility for me was all right, I'm committed to moving my body today, but I've got lots of different ways I can do it.

I've shared this before, I think, on the show. But an example of lateral flexibility in my own life was I used to travel for work, and the places I worked I did software, but we implemented the software in these huge warehouses. And so you know, my goal or my habit is movement, right, So if I could, I'd go to the gym in the morning, and if they had a pool, i'd swim. If they had a workout room, I might get on the treadmill as sort of My other option was I would just walk as much as I could in this giant warehouse all day, you know. So I had different ways to meet that goal because my conditions were always changing. Right, what hotel am I at. It's a different hotel, What do they have, What time does the workday start? When you're on site? Sometimes it starts at nine, sometimes it starts at six. So that was the lateral flexibility for me was all right, I'm committed to moving my body today, but I've got lots of different ways I can do it.

A lot of habits are naturally great for lateral flexibility anyway. Like if you think about trying to learn an instrument, you have the actual practicing of the instrument, say guitar, but then you also have things like learning music theory. And I don't I'm not very musical, but you know there's a whole study aspect of it as well. So on days where your fingers are bleeding because you've played too much yesterday, then you can use that day to study. And if you plan ahead for that, it's not like, oh no, my fingers are bleeding, so I'm not going to make any guitar progress. You're ready for it, You're you just okay, it's time to study.

A lot of habits are naturally great for lateral flexibility anyway. Like if you think about trying to learn an instrument, you have the actual practicing of the instrument, say guitar, but then you also have things like learning music theory. And I don't I'm not very musical, but you know there's a whole study aspect of it as well. So on days where your fingers are bleeding because you've played too much yesterday, then you can use that day to study. And if you plan ahead for that, it's not like, oh no, my fingers are bleeding, so I'm not going to make any guitar progress. You're ready for it, You're you just okay, it's time to study.

Yeah, And I think what you said there is important. It's some degree of the planning ahead. And I think lateral flexibility is also really important, as you said for injury. Lots of clients I've had over the years and myself, you know you're committed to physical movement. But your knees bad today, your shoulders bad today, what else can you do? Or weather? I'd prefer to run outside, but if it's pouring down rain, I have a fallback planet to use your terminology. I have a lateral move I can make here. Absolutely, So that's lateral flexibility, which is really really important and really valuable. What really kind of blew me away about your work was you take this to the next level, which is vertical flexibility. So talk to me about what is vertical flexibility and why do we need it?

Yeah, And I think what you said there is important. It's some degree of the planning ahead. And I think lateral flexibility is also really important, as you said for injury. Lots of clients I've had over the years and myself, you know you're committed to physical movement. But your knees bad today, your shoulders bad today, what else can you do? Or weather? I'd prefer to run outside, but if it's pouring down rain, I have a fallback planet to use your terminology. I have a lateral move I can make here. Absolutely, So that's lateral flexibility, which is really really important and really valuable. What really kind of blew me away about your work was you take this to the next level, which is vertical flexibility. So talk to me about what is vertical flexibility and why do we need it?

Yeah, So vertical flexibility gives us the option to move that intensity meter up or down and in a dynamic life where we get sick and injured and distracted, you name it. That's really useful. Again, people typically just pick that one level of intensity and regardless of what happens in their life, they're just trying to hit that same point. It's like, what if you have an excess of energy, why can't you go higher than that point? Or what if you're having the worst day of your life, why can't you do a little bit lower. Yes, So there's that aspect of it. There's also, which I find fascinating different goal sizes have different pros and cons, So a small goal size is obviously very easy to accomplish. The downside is you don't accomplish that much in you know, results, at least for that day consistently. Obviously over time, it's still a massive result, which is why we have so many small habit books out there. Let me cover the elite level, as I call it, the top level. That's obviously amazing if you accomplish it. It's super satisfying if you can reach that high level, but the downside is it's difficult to do so. In the book, I make a case that by having three levels small, medium, large, you could say you actually leverage the pros and cons of each level. So if you are, say tired and having the worst day of your life, you can leverage the appeal of the small level. If you're ready to do a lot, then you can leverage the appeal of the big goal. So right, regardless of what you need for the day, there's something appealing there.

Yeah, So vertical flexibility gives us the option to move that intensity meter up or down and in a dynamic life where we get sick and injured and distracted, you name it. That's really useful. Again, people typically just pick that one level of intensity and regardless of what happens in their life, they're just trying to hit that same point. It's like, what if you have an excess of energy, why can't you go higher than that point? Or what if you're having the worst day of your life, why can't you do a little bit lower. Yes, So there's that aspect of it. There's also, which I find fascinating different goal sizes have different pros and cons, So a small goal size is obviously very easy to accomplish. The downside is you don't accomplish that much in you know, results, at least for that day consistently. Obviously over time, it's still a massive result, which is why we have so many small habit books out there. Let me cover the elite level, as I call it, the top level. That's obviously amazing if you accomplish it. It's super satisfying if you can reach that high level, but the downside is it's difficult to do so. In the book, I make a case that by having three levels small, medium, large, you could say you actually leverage the pros and cons of each level. So if you are, say tired and having the worst day of your life, you can leverage the appeal of the small level. If you're ready to do a lot, then you can leverage the appeal of the big goal. So right, regardless of what you need for the day, there's something appealing there.

Yeah, this really solves a lot of different issues that you kind of pointed to. And there's two big ones I think of with this. One is it's the time and how I feel issue, Right, So if my goal is to walk for thirty minutes and I get tied up coming out of a meeting and I only have fifteen minutes, one inclination is just to say give up.

Yeah, this really solves a lot of different issues that you kind of pointed to. And there's two big ones I think of with this. One is it's the time and how I feel issue, Right, So if my goal is to walk for thirty minutes and I get tied up coming out of a meeting and I only have fifteen minutes, one inclination is just to say give up.

Right.

Right.

So I have always said a little bit of something is better than a lot of nothing.

So I have always said a little bit of something is better than a lot of nothing.

Right.

Right.

You had another quote in your book. I don't quite remember, but it was something similar to that that was said very well. So what you're saying is, I could be if we're talking about walking, I could say, all right, I could walk ten minutes, I could walk thirty minutes, I could walk an hour. Right, So it solves that for the time. But the other thing that it solves for, and this is why I'm kind of gushing about it, is that it solves for what you just said, which is motivation. And as somebody who is promoted, you've got many habits bj Fogg as tiny habits. The concept is the same, do one push up, meditate for one minute. That's a great strategy for establishing consistency. But as anybody who does that for a little while will then go and then who cares? Right, Like, my life did not change from doing a single push up, right, So what you were I think you call it small, medium, large. Actually that's not the terms.

You had another quote in your book. I don't quite remember, but it was something similar to that that was said very well. So what you're saying is, I could be if we're talking about walking, I could say, all right, I could walk ten minutes, I could walk thirty minutes, I could walk an hour. Right, So it solves that for the time. But the other thing that it solves for, and this is why I'm kind of gushing about it, is that it solves for what you just said, which is motivation. And as somebody who is promoted, you've got many habits bj Fogg as tiny habits. The concept is the same, do one push up, meditate for one minute. That's a great strategy for establishing consistency. But as anybody who does that for a little while will then go and then who cares? Right, Like, my life did not change from doing a single push up, right, So what you were I think you call it small, medium, large. Actually that's not the terms.

You use mini plus elite.

You use mini plus elite.

Mini plus an elite. These different levels for the habit means that I can look at what my what my motivation is, and if I can go Okay, I'm not motivated at all day a matter of fact, I don't care about this habit, this goal at all today. So I've got a mini minimum level I can do. Or conversely, I am feeling really inspired about meditation, So instead of doing my mini which would be say ten minutes, or my standard which would be thirty, I'm going to sit for an hour because I'm really into it. I just heard this talk about how all the benefits of meditation. I want to go for it today, and I just love this ability for our motivation to be honored. And you talk about this in the book where you talk about feelings, the role that our feelings play in this. Can you say a little bit more about that.

Mini plus an elite. These different levels for the habit means that I can look at what my what my motivation is, and if I can go Okay, I'm not motivated at all day a matter of fact, I don't care about this habit, this goal at all today. So I've got a mini minimum level I can do. Or conversely, I am feeling really inspired about meditation, So instead of doing my mini which would be say ten minutes, or my standard which would be thirty, I'm going to sit for an hour because I'm really into it. I just heard this talk about how all the benefits of meditation. I want to go for it today, and I just love this ability for our motivation to be honored. And you talk about this in the book where you talk about feelings, the role that our feelings play in this. Can you say a little bit more about that.

Yeah, I mean feelings are basically what determine our motivation. If you're if you're not motivated to do something, it's you don't feel like doing it. Well, if you rely upon that, you're just not going to get anywhere consistently. You'll have good days and you'll have bad days. So the idea of any good habit system is to kind of eliminate that issue and figure out ways to stay consistent on those days that you're not feeling it. The Mini level is obviously the least impressive, but it's the glue that holds this system together. It's why this is an expansion of my first book, Mini Habits. Many Habits is super successful in practice with just the Mini level, Like one push up a day actually did change my life. I could say I work out all the time easily without resistance nine years later because I did one push up in twenty twelve and kind of parlayed that down the line. But the Mini level serves as the safety net. That's basically its role, and each of the levels does have a role. You have the safety net at the mini level. At the higher level that's your like, your dreams, that's your inspiration. You could say that's the level you hope to be at consistently if you keep at it, and then the mid level is in the middle.

Yeah, I mean feelings are basically what determine our motivation. If you're if you're not motivated to do something, it's you don't feel like doing it. Well, if you rely upon that, you're just not going to get anywhere consistently. You'll have good days and you'll have bad days. So the idea of any good habit system is to kind of eliminate that issue and figure out ways to stay consistent on those days that you're not feeling it. The Mini level is obviously the least impressive, but it's the glue that holds this system together. It's why this is an expansion of my first book, Mini Habits. Many Habits is super successful in practice with just the Mini level, Like one push up a day actually did change my life. I could say I work out all the time easily without resistance nine years later because I did one push up in twenty twelve and kind of parlayed that down the line. But the Mini level serves as the safety net. That's basically its role, and each of the levels does have a role. You have the safety net at the mini level. At the higher level that's your like, your dreams, that's your inspiration. You could say that's the level you hope to be at consistently if you keep at it, and then the mid level is in the middle.

Yeah, right, And actually I should have been a little bit clearer because I agree with you, doing one push up can change your life in that it is a place to build from for dramatic change. What I meant was doing one push up a day is not going to make a huge difference to your physical well being if that's where you just stay. But I've talked on this show all the time about I was a on again, off again meditator for twenty years. I fought this thing on off, on off because I was trying to do thirty minutes. I heard thirty minutes is what you should do. So I would try thirty minutes and I could gut it out for a few days, a week, maybe a month. But it was really hard for me when I went to saying, all right, I'm going to only do three minutes, but I'm going to do it every day. That built a eight year pretty deep meditation practice off, you know, three minutes of meditation. So I totally agree with you that that mini habit, that consistency is the springboard to many other things. What I'm was that for a lot of us, if we just stay there after a while, we go, well, the value I'm getting is not as high. And I love the way you kind of break that out in the book. You say, well, you know you've got sort of this almost inverse. Maybe it's not an inverse. I'm terrible with my algebraic functions. There's a relationship between how easy something is and how much value you get out of it. Right, the easier it is to do that's positive, you get less value. You describe this in different pies in the book. But that's the power of this vertical flexibility, is that I can adjust based on my goal at the time.

Yeah, right, And actually I should have been a little bit clearer because I agree with you, doing one push up can change your life in that it is a place to build from for dramatic change. What I meant was doing one push up a day is not going to make a huge difference to your physical well being if that's where you just stay. But I've talked on this show all the time about I was a on again, off again meditator for twenty years. I fought this thing on off, on off because I was trying to do thirty minutes. I heard thirty minutes is what you should do. So I would try thirty minutes and I could gut it out for a few days, a week, maybe a month. But it was really hard for me when I went to saying, all right, I'm going to only do three minutes, but I'm going to do it every day. That built a eight year pretty deep meditation practice off, you know, three minutes of meditation. So I totally agree with you that that mini habit, that consistency is the springboard to many other things. What I'm was that for a lot of us, if we just stay there after a while, we go, well, the value I'm getting is not as high. And I love the way you kind of break that out in the book. You say, well, you know you've got sort of this almost inverse. Maybe it's not an inverse. I'm terrible with my algebraic functions. There's a relationship between how easy something is and how much value you get out of it. Right, the easier it is to do that's positive, you get less value. You describe this in different pies in the book. But that's the power of this vertical flexibility, is that I can adjust based on my goal at the time.

I definitely understand where you're coming from. I would say that whereas you do have that easiness to value relationship, I think people vastly underestimate what even one pushup a day can do. And the very early days of the one Push Up Challenge, as I called it, I was actually surprised because I was coming from basically a place of zero. Yeah, when you're starting at zero and you do even just a little bit of something like I actually noticed I got stronger, and at least I got better at doing push ups. Like the first push up, I think I heard like my bones creaking and you know, things popping, and I was like, oh, gosh.

I definitely understand where you're coming from. I would say that whereas you do have that easiness to value relationship, I think people vastly underestimate what even one pushup a day can do. And the very early days of the one Push Up Challenge, as I called it, I was actually surprised because I was coming from basically a place of zero. Yeah, when you're starting at zero and you do even just a little bit of something like I actually noticed I got stronger, and at least I got better at doing push ups. Like the first push up, I think I heard like my bones creaking and you know, things popping, and I was like, oh, gosh.

Right, well that is what happens right when you start really small like that. Before long you're able to do just a little bit more with the same amount of output, right because you are building at every level.

Right, well that is what happens right when you start really small like that. Before long you're able to do just a little bit more with the same amount of output, right because you are building at every level.

I do want to also say a key part of this in the mini Habit system is that part of the reason you aim for, say one push up instead of one hundred, is one push up is not an end point. It's it's a beginning. Whereas one hundred push ups you hit that you're done. Yes, when you do one push up, it's more like, well, I guess I'm already in push up position. I could do more that. More often than not, I did more than one push up even in the early days.

I do want to also say a key part of this in the mini Habit system is that part of the reason you aim for, say one push up instead of one hundred, is one push up is not an end point. It's it's a beginning. Whereas one hundred push ups you hit that you're done. Yes, when you do one push up, it's more like, well, I guess I'm already in push up position. I could do more that. More often than not, I did more than one push up even in the early days.

I think Many Habits is a brilliant place to start, and I just love the way you've expanded on it for where we go next. So what we end up with in essence, based on what we're talking about is basically a nine by nine grid if we were to fill in all aspects of it, and we might not for everything, and this would be hard for listeners to see, but you might see, you know, going across the top, would be different ways that I could fulfill a movement goal. So say my lateral might be to walk one block, to do two push ups, or dance to one song. Yes, there you go. People who are watching on the show or watching on YouTube will see it. Most of our listeners will not. But so I've got three different ways that i can do it, and I've got three different levels that I can do it at, giving me essentially nine choices for how I do that that day. I want to ask you a question though about that, because choice, while a wonderful thing, sometimes is a paralyzing thing. I can see myself someday looking at this grid and going hmm, well, I could do twenty push ups, but maybe I should just walk one block. The weather's not that great. Maybe I should dance, but if I put on one song like I can see myself getting lost in that, particularly in my struggles with depression. And one of the things that goes for me with depression or low mood is an inability to decide. So talk about how this grid serves us versus becomes paralyzing to us.

I think Many Habits is a brilliant place to start, and I just love the way you've expanded on it for where we go next. So what we end up with in essence, based on what we're talking about is basically a nine by nine grid if we were to fill in all aspects of it, and we might not for everything, and this would be hard for listeners to see, but you might see, you know, going across the top, would be different ways that I could fulfill a movement goal. So say my lateral might be to walk one block, to do two push ups, or dance to one song. Yes, there you go. People who are watching on the show or watching on YouTube will see it. Most of our listeners will not. But so I've got three different ways that i can do it, and I've got three different levels that I can do it at, giving me essentially nine choices for how I do that that day. I want to ask you a question though about that, because choice, while a wonderful thing, sometimes is a paralyzing thing. I can see myself someday looking at this grid and going hmm, well, I could do twenty push ups, but maybe I should just walk one block. The weather's not that great. Maybe I should dance, but if I put on one song like I can see myself getting lost in that, particularly in my struggles with depression. And one of the things that goes for me with depression or low mood is an inability to decide. So talk about how this grid serves us versus becomes paralyzing to us.

Well, one time at the grocery store, I spent twenty minutes picking out rice, so I'm very familiar with the concepts you're talking about. It can be difficult to decide. That's one reason why if you're going to go with elastic habits, it's very important to display it in a very clear way. For one, like just having like if you're pursuing three habits and each of them has nine different wind conditions, that's twenty seven things to keep in your mind. That's a bit much and it kind of defeats the purpose of the system. But as far as getting to a decision, there are a few techniques you can use that will overcome the downside of that, if that makes sense. One is you either start with an intensity or you start with a task, so don't try to solve both lateral and vertical flexibility at the same time. You can go based on what you feel, like how much energy do I have. If it's an exercise habit, you can say I'm feeling like I could do the middle level, so then you just look at the middle row and then you pick one of those three options. And the other thing is you don't have to use all nine slots. Like the posters I showed, some of them only had one slot. You can just do one one one and have no lateral flexibility, which would make sense in something like meditation, I think, because there's really only one way to meditate, right, you could maybe do yoga or meditation. Yeah, but that's the first thing I would recommend. Try to pick lateral or vertical option first. Maybe you're saying, if you're a writer that involves writing, editing, marketing, you could say, I want to write today, and at that point then you pick your intensity or you don't even have to do that. You can just start and see what intensity you end up achieving.

Well, one time at the grocery store, I spent twenty minutes picking out rice, so I'm very familiar with the concepts you're talking about. It can be difficult to decide. That's one reason why if you're going to go with elastic habits, it's very important to display it in a very clear way. For one, like just having like if you're pursuing three habits and each of them has nine different wind conditions, that's twenty seven things to keep in your mind. That's a bit much and it kind of defeats the purpose of the system. But as far as getting to a decision, there are a few techniques you can use that will overcome the downside of that, if that makes sense. One is you either start with an intensity or you start with a task, so don't try to solve both lateral and vertical flexibility at the same time. You can go based on what you feel, like how much energy do I have. If it's an exercise habit, you can say I'm feeling like I could do the middle level, so then you just look at the middle row and then you pick one of those three options. And the other thing is you don't have to use all nine slots. Like the posters I showed, some of them only had one slot. You can just do one one one and have no lateral flexibility, which would make sense in something like meditation, I think, because there's really only one way to meditate, right, you could maybe do yoga or meditation. Yeah, but that's the first thing I would recommend. Try to pick lateral or vertical option first. Maybe you're saying, if you're a writer that involves writing, editing, marketing, you could say, I want to write today, and at that point then you pick your intensity or you don't even have to do that. You can just start and see what intensity you end up achieving.

Yep. And I think this speaks to the elastic nature of it, which is that knowing ourselves is helpful and knowing Okay, do I need a little bit more constraint and a little bit more rigid structure or can I do with a broader constraint less structure and knowing yourself can be very important. And you know, I often find in the early days of starting something new, more constraint tends to all often be helpful because it can often just make it very clear what to do, and as we become a little bit more established, we can broaden. That's not a hard and fast rule. Again, everybody's a little bit different. I often use this quote from the spiritual teacher Ajuanshai. He said, if I see somebody walking down the road about to fall in the road to the ditch on the left, I push them to the center of the road. If they're walking down the road and they're about to fall to the ditch to the right, I push them to the left right. So, depending on where you are, you may need to adjust this, which is again what it's so powerful about your system. So I think in the same way that if we're talking about can I handle twenty seven choices? Maybe not right now, I think it's a really important thing to know about ourselves.

Yep. And I think this speaks to the elastic nature of it, which is that knowing ourselves is helpful and knowing Okay, do I need a little bit more constraint and a little bit more rigid structure or can I do with a broader constraint less structure and knowing yourself can be very important. And you know, I often find in the early days of starting something new, more constraint tends to all often be helpful because it can often just make it very clear what to do, and as we become a little bit more established, we can broaden. That's not a hard and fast rule. Again, everybody's a little bit different. I often use this quote from the spiritual teacher Ajuanshai. He said, if I see somebody walking down the road about to fall in the road to the ditch on the left, I push them to the center of the road. If they're walking down the road and they're about to fall to the ditch to the right, I push them to the left right. So, depending on where you are, you may need to adjust this, which is again what it's so powerful about your system. So I think in the same way that if we're talking about can I handle twenty seven choices? Maybe not right now, I think it's a really important thing to know about ourselves.

Yeah, the system itself is flexible because everyone is different. Yeah, I had to write this book with type A people in mind. I'm not a type A person like that plans their whole life out. I'm more of the what am I going to do today kind of person? Right, But type A people can do extremely well with this system as well, because they if they write it down, they can have a very clear plan and you can simplify it, you can make it really complicated. I guess listeners can't see this, but this one has actually twelve different options and something I call modular habits where you can like combine different But you know, for some people they'll like that. Other people will prefer simpler stuff.

Yeah, the system itself is flexible because everyone is different. Yeah, I had to write this book with type A people in mind. I'm not a type A person like that plans their whole life out. I'm more of the what am I going to do today kind of person? Right, But type A people can do extremely well with this system as well, because they if they write it down, they can have a very clear plan and you can simplify it, you can make it really complicated. I guess listeners can't see this, but this one has actually twelve different options and something I call modular habits where you can like combine different But you know, for some people they'll like that. Other people will prefer simpler stuff.

You said that it might be a little bit too detailed or technical to talk about queues, but I would like to talk about them because I think it's another important and nuanced discussion. So by Q, what we really mean is when you do it, right? Is that how you define a queue?

You said that it might be a little bit too detailed or technical to talk about queues, but I would like to talk about them because I think it's another important and nuanced discussion. So by Q, what we really mean is when you do it, right? Is that how you define a queue?

A Q or a trigger is whatever prompts you to do the behavior.

A Q or a trigger is whatever prompts you to do the behavior.

So you've got a few different kinds here, right. You've got one that everybody's familiar with, right, which is the timete prompt time based queue, right, which is you do the behavior at the same time every day. Your examples, I garden at three pm. Mine for a long time was I sit with my zen group at nine am, Like, it's just that's what time I do it. I have a little thing that goes off on my phone, I take medicine at a certain time. A little alarm goes off on my phone. I take it. Very simple prompt queue. What are some other types?

So you've got a few different kinds here, right. You've got one that everybody's familiar with, right, which is the timete prompt time based queue, right, which is you do the behavior at the same time every day. Your examples, I garden at three pm. Mine for a long time was I sit with my zen group at nine am, Like, it's just that's what time I do it. I have a little thing that goes off on my phone, I take medicine at a certain time. A little alarm goes off on my phone. I take it. Very simple prompt queue. What are some other types?

So besides that, you have the activity based queue, which is simply beginning a habit directly after a different behavior, likely another habit. My friend Steve Scott calls this habit stacking, where one habit leads to the next habit, and it works very well because if you're introducing a new habit, that can rely on the old habit to be a que because if the old habit is already established, say brushing your teeth, which most of us have down, right after you do that, you can do pushups or whatever, and that can be very useful. A third one that I think I introduced that I've never seen anyone else talk about is not having a specific queue. And I sometimes call that like a daily queue, where you don't have a specific time or place or activity, but you just commit to getting it done at some point during the day. And aside from the freedom and flexibility that that offers, I think one of the biggest benefits is that it more resembles a bad habit structure than the typical good habit structure because most people, when they develop a good habit, they do pick a queue. Because we learned about how habits work with the que behavior reward. We know that cycle, so everyone's like, Okay, I got to pick my queue. Bad habits don't work that way, We just do them. Think about a smoker, how many queues do they have if they're smoking a pack a day. I don't know how many cigarettes are in a pack, but that's possibly ten different queues in a day. They probably have hundreds or dozens at least, And there's a huge advantage of that for the habit. Yeah, as far as staying power, because it's like a tree having one root versus a tree having a sprawling root system. All these different roots can lead to this habit. That just makes a habit so much stronger in my opinion, because let me see if I can give an example. If your queue is based on where you live or something in your home, and you move, you just removed your queue. So is your habit going to die? Maybe maybe not, but you're certainly going to have to make a big effort to adjust to your new environment. If you do a multi que daily habit where you're just learning to do this behavior after various different cues, it's going to be more resilient to change.

So besides that, you have the activity based queue, which is simply beginning a habit directly after a different behavior, likely another habit. My friend Steve Scott calls this habit stacking, where one habit leads to the next habit, and it works very well because if you're introducing a new habit, that can rely on the old habit to be a que because if the old habit is already established, say brushing your teeth, which most of us have down, right after you do that, you can do pushups or whatever, and that can be very useful. A third one that I think I introduced that I've never seen anyone else talk about is not having a specific queue. And I sometimes call that like a daily queue, where you don't have a specific time or place or activity, but you just commit to getting it done at some point during the day. And aside from the freedom and flexibility that that offers, I think one of the biggest benefits is that it more resembles a bad habit structure than the typical good habit structure because most people, when they develop a good habit, they do pick a queue. Because we learned about how habits work with the que behavior reward. We know that cycle, so everyone's like, Okay, I got to pick my queue. Bad habits don't work that way, We just do them. Think about a smoker, how many queues do they have if they're smoking a pack a day. I don't know how many cigarettes are in a pack, but that's possibly ten different queues in a day. They probably have hundreds or dozens at least, And there's a huge advantage of that for the habit. Yeah, as far as staying power, because it's like a tree having one root versus a tree having a sprawling root system. All these different roots can lead to this habit. That just makes a habit so much stronger in my opinion, because let me see if I can give an example. If your queue is based on where you live or something in your home, and you move, you just removed your queue. So is your habit going to die? Maybe maybe not, but you're certainly going to have to make a big effort to adjust to your new environment. If you do a multi que daily habit where you're just learning to do this behavior after various different cues, it's going to be more resilient to change.

Yeah, And so the daily queue is essentially I'm going to do the behavior sometime before I go to bed tonight, you know, sometime in this day, I'm going to do it.

Yeah, And so the daily queue is essentially I'm going to do the behavior sometime before I go to bed tonight, you know, sometime in this day, I'm going to do it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's interesting you talk about the cues that a smoker has, you know, in the spiritual Habits program that I developed. We talk about different types of cues and triggers, and the one that I would refer to this is and again it's mostly now in our lives tied to bad habits is it's the emotional based cue. It's there's something inside of me that happens that usually cues us towards a bad behavior. I'm bored, I grab my phone, I'm stressed, I smoke a cigarette. But if we can learn to flip that and use those emotional based cues to trigger good habits, that becomes incredibly powerful. And I think that's kind of what your speed to here is you let your internal motivation to want to do this thing surface.

It's interesting you talk about the cues that a smoker has, you know, in the spiritual Habits program that I developed. We talk about different types of cues and triggers, and the one that I would refer to this is and again it's mostly now in our lives tied to bad habits is it's the emotional based cue. It's there's something inside of me that happens that usually cues us towards a bad behavior. I'm bored, I grab my phone, I'm stressed, I smoke a cigarette. But if we can learn to flip that and use those emotional based cues to trigger good habits, that becomes incredibly powerful. And I think that's kind of what your speed to here is you let your internal motivation to want to do this thing surface.

Yeah, that's a beautiful phrase. You pulled out, emotional cueue, because honestly, that probably deserves its own chapter in a book somewhere. Like, if we could figure out a way to generate good habits based on emotional cues, that just seems genius to me.

Yeah, that's a beautiful phrase. You pulled out, emotional cueue, because honestly, that probably deserves its own chapter in a book somewhere. Like, if we could figure out a way to generate good habits based on emotional cues, that just seems genius to me.

Well, it's incredibly powerful. It's challenge is you need a lot of self awareness to do it.

Well, it's incredibly powerful. It's challenge is you need a lot of self awareness to do it.

Yeah, yeah, true.

Yeah, yeah, true.

Which can be developed, right, I mean, you know, I think that's one of the benefits of mindfulness practice in general, and by that I don't just mean meditation, but mindfulness practice in general is becoming more aware of my internal states, because then I have more flexibility and choice. So the daily queue, again, I think, can be really powerful and for some people. For me, tends to be a difficult one because I will debate all day long weather I'm going to should I do it now? Should do guitar?

Which can be developed, right, I mean, you know, I think that's one of the benefits of mindfulness practice in general, and by that I don't just mean meditation, but mindfulness practice in general is becoming more aware of my internal states, because then I have more flexibility and choice. So the daily queue, again, I think, can be really powerful and for some people. For me, tends to be a difficult one because I will debate all day long weather I'm going to should I do it now? Should do guitar?

Now?

Now?

But maybe I should go to the gym now. That's just kind of my internal state. You've got another type of queue that I really like, though, which you call a window Q. Describe the window Q to us.

But maybe I should go to the gym now. That's just kind of my internal state. You've got another type of queue that I really like, though, which you call a window Q. Describe the window Q to us.

Yeah, So the window Q is the time based queue, just with a bit more flexibility. Instead of saying I'm going to garden at three, you're gonna say I'm going to garden between three and five. So the advantage of that is it's not as restrictive if you're the type like me who kind of resists very specific hard like. That's that's why I write these books, is because I I can't operate in the like just you know, strict discipline. I'm going to get up at four am every day and do this, this, this that Like I that's not me. I wouldn't enjoy that even if I could force myself to do it. So the window Q is kind of a compromise between the strict time based queue and the full daily queue. It's saying I'm going to do this in this window. Yeah, you get a little bit of the best of each. I think.

Yeah, So the window Q is the time based queue, just with a bit more flexibility. Instead of saying I'm going to garden at three, you're gonna say I'm going to garden between three and five. So the advantage of that is it's not as restrictive if you're the type like me who kind of resists very specific hard like. That's that's why I write these books, is because I I can't operate in the like just you know, strict discipline. I'm going to get up at four am every day and do this, this, this that Like I that's not me. I wouldn't enjoy that even if I could force myself to do it. So the window Q is kind of a compromise between the strict time based queue and the full daily queue. It's saying I'm going to do this in this window. Yeah, you get a little bit of the best of each. I think.

I've started sending a couple of text messages after each podcast listener with positive reminders about what's discussed and invitations to apply the wisdom to your life. It's free, and listeners have told me that these texts really help to pull them out of autopilot and reconnect them with what's important. When you get a text for me during your day to day life, it's one more thing that helps you further bridge that gap between what you know and what you do. Positive messages when you need them from me to you. So if you'd like to hear from me a few times a week via text, go to oneufeed dot net slash text and sign up for free. It's interesting. I have done over the years a fair amount of coaching with people who have recently retired. Because they retire and they're like, I've got all these things I want to do, all these interests, all these goals, and then they go and all I'm doing is sitting around all day, semi paralyzed, not knowing what to do. There's an interesting challenge with them because after a lifetime of working and being on a beach, be here at this time, be here at that time, be here at that time, they do not want that in retirement. And they're like, I don't want to have to do something every day at nine am, and yet the daily queue isn't working for them. And so I do think the window Q is really great for that because it gives you some degree of flexibility. If I'm moving a little bit slower today, yeah, okay, I'll get to it in a little while, but it just doesn't have the chance to sort of just spread out all day. And so I found the window Q be a pretty helpful cueue for a lot of people that are in that sort of situation.

I've started sending a couple of text messages after each podcast listener with positive reminders about what's discussed and invitations to apply the wisdom to your life. It's free, and listeners have told me that these texts really help to pull them out of autopilot and reconnect them with what's important. When you get a text for me during your day to day life, it's one more thing that helps you further bridge that gap between what you know and what you do. Positive messages when you need them from me to you. So if you'd like to hear from me a few times a week via text, go to oneufeed dot net slash text and sign up for free. It's interesting. I have done over the years a fair amount of coaching with people who have recently retired. Because they retire and they're like, I've got all these things I want to do, all these interests, all these goals, and then they go and all I'm doing is sitting around all day, semi paralyzed, not knowing what to do. There's an interesting challenge with them because after a lifetime of working and being on a beach, be here at this time, be here at that time, be here at that time, they do not want that in retirement. And they're like, I don't want to have to do something every day at nine am, and yet the daily queue isn't working for them. And so I do think the window Q is really great for that because it gives you some degree of flexibility. If I'm moving a little bit slower today, yeah, okay, I'll get to it in a little while, but it just doesn't have the chance to sort of just spread out all day. And so I found the window Q be a pretty helpful cueue for a lot of people that are in that sort of situation.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Well, I did come up with that idea. I think I'm a little bit blind to it because I do very well with the daily cue myself. But I will admit on some days the daily queue, when I was doing the daily push up, sometimes I would do that in bed at the end of the day, be I just do my one push up in my bed and sleep. So you know, yep, which is fine. Like I kept the streak alive and obviously it worked. But with the window Q, I think I would have gotten it done earlier.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Well, I did come up with that idea. I think I'm a little bit blind to it because I do very well with the daily cue myself. But I will admit on some days the daily queue, when I was doing the daily push up, sometimes I would do that in bed at the end of the day, be I just do my one push up in my bed and sleep. So you know, yep, which is fine. Like I kept the streak alive and obviously it worked. But with the window Q, I think I would have gotten it done earlier.

Well, I was the same way. There was a period when I was doing a smaller amount of meditation and it was a more nascent habit. I was really like every day without exception. I've gotten a little bit more flexible with that because I'm like, oh, now, I know, after about eight years of it, if I miss a day or two, the world's not going to end. But back then I was so focused on consistency. Same thing. I'm like laying in bed going, oh, oh, I guess it's time to meditate, you know, which again is better than not doing it. But the reason I'm going into these cues is back to our point before. Everybody's a little bit different, and so this gives you some different ways. You know, if you're the person who goes, I don't need a lot of structure to do this, Like, I just am going to commit to doing it. If I commit to doing it, I'll do it sometime today I'll figure it out. There are people that are like that, and then there are other people who really need like I need to know that I do it at seven am. And so I think it gets back to this knowing yourself or having someone who can help you know yourself well enough to sort of figure these things out. I want to talk about some of the principles that elastic habits abides by. I don't think we need to go through all nine of them. We've hit a few of them already, but I'd love to talk about a couple of them. And one of them is intelligent tracking. Talk to me about intelligent tracking, and then talk to me about if I've got twenty seven different options, actually, let's just keep it to one habit. If I got nine different options, what's the way I track that?

Well, I was the same way. There was a period when I was doing a smaller amount of meditation and it was a more nascent habit. I was really like every day without exception. I've gotten a little bit more flexible with that because I'm like, oh, now, I know, after about eight years of it, if I miss a day or two, the world's not going to end. But back then I was so focused on consistency. Same thing. I'm like laying in bed going, oh, oh, I guess it's time to meditate, you know, which again is better than not doing it. But the reason I'm going into these cues is back to our point before. Everybody's a little bit different, and so this gives you some different ways. You know, if you're the person who goes, I don't need a lot of structure to do this, Like, I just am going to commit to doing it. If I commit to doing it, I'll do it sometime today I'll figure it out. There are people that are like that, and then there are other people who really need like I need to know that I do it at seven am. And so I think it gets back to this knowing yourself or having someone who can help you know yourself well enough to sort of figure these things out. I want to talk about some of the principles that elastic habits abides by. I don't think we need to go through all nine of them. We've hit a few of them already, but I'd love to talk about a couple of them. And one of them is intelligent tracking. Talk to me about intelligent tracking, and then talk to me about if I've got twenty seven different options, actually, let's just keep it to one habit. If I got nine different options, what's the way I track that?

Yeah, So I actually showed the habit posters I created earlier, and I also created like a tracking calendar with stickers. I think either stickers or markings are the best way to track an elastic habit. And the main concept there is you have three different levels of success, right. I call them mini plus Elite. You could say Bronze, silver, gold if you want. So, if you use a sticker to track it. Say you start out you do five pushups and that's your mini good job, but then later in the day you're like, no, I can do more, and you do twenty more. Then you can actually upgrade that by placing another sticker over top of it, a silver sticker that works. You can also use like a triangle for the first one, and then you color in the triangle for the next level, and then maybe color in the whole square if you do the elite top level.

Yeah, So I actually showed the habit posters I created earlier, and I also created like a tracking calendar with stickers. I think either stickers or markings are the best way to track an elastic habit. And the main concept there is you have three different levels of success, right. I call them mini plus Elite. You could say Bronze, silver, gold if you want. So, if you use a sticker to track it. Say you start out you do five pushups and that's your mini good job, but then later in the day you're like, no, I can do more, and you do twenty more. Then you can actually upgrade that by placing another sticker over top of it, a silver sticker that works. You can also use like a triangle for the first one, and then you color in the triangle for the next level, and then maybe color in the whole square if you do the elite top level.

Why is tracking important?

Why is tracking important?

Tracking is important? For one, it reinforces that you're succeeding. You see that you're having success, and when we see a streak of winds, we generally try to keep that up. It tells you that the habit is important to you. That's a big one because if you're taking the time or spending money on a calendar to put something on your wall, that says I'm serious about this. Because if you're not very serious about something, you might be like, oh, maybe i'll do this, and you'll just have it in your head and probably not do it. Tracking keeps you accountable to that goal of actually wanting to get it done.

Tracking is important? For one, it reinforces that you're succeeding. You see that you're having success, and when we see a streak of winds, we generally try to keep that up. It tells you that the habit is important to you. That's a big one because if you're taking the time or spending money on a calendar to put something on your wall, that says I'm serious about this. Because if you're not very serious about something, you might be like, oh, maybe i'll do this, and you'll just have it in your head and probably not do it. Tracking keeps you accountable to that goal of actually wanting to get it done.

For you in your life. Does a point come where something is so embedded that you don't need to track it anymore.

For you in your life. Does a point come where something is so embedded that you don't need to track it anymore.

Yep, I'm there now. I don't track my habits anymore, not the ones I started with, you know, working out as a part of my life. Now this was ten years ago, well let's say twenty years ago. I had wanted to do it, and then for the next ten years I couldn't get it done. And then many habits kind of changed my relationship with exercise over the last decade, and elastic habits helped even more. And yeah, I have no need to track it. It's like, would you track brushing your teeth? Probably not, because why would you do that. It does get to that level, and that's it's really exciting and fulfilling because basically you've made it. At that point, your brain has accepted this new behavior as a part of it.

Yep, I'm there now. I don't track my habits anymore, not the ones I started with, you know, working out as a part of my life. Now this was ten years ago, well let's say twenty years ago. I had wanted to do it, and then for the next ten years I couldn't get it done. And then many habits kind of changed my relationship with exercise over the last decade, and elastic habits helped even more. And yeah, I have no need to track it. It's like, would you track brushing your teeth? Probably not, because why would you do that. It does get to that level, and that's it's really exciting and fulfilling because basically you've made it. At that point, your brain has accepted this new behavior as a part of it.

Yep. Yeah, there are certain habits for me that I don't really track anymore. And if I'm trying to do something new, I might track it, or if I'm trying to upgrade one of them in a way that's somewhat significant, I may go back to track. You know, movement and exercises just a part of my life. It just happens. But if I am trying to do something that's a little bit more challenging. For example, I was doing these Peloton power Zone rides and the challenge was certainly an upgrade above where I was, So I found tracking for that was good to go back to because I was like, all right, I'm kind of trying to upgrade this.

Yep. Yeah, there are certain habits for me that I don't really track anymore. And if I'm trying to do something new, I might track it, or if I'm trying to upgrade one of them in a way that's somewhat significant, I may go back to track. You know, movement and exercises just a part of my life. It just happens. But if I am trying to do something that's a little bit more challenging. For example, I was doing these Peloton power Zone rides and the challenge was certainly an upgrade above where I was, So I found tracking for that was good to go back to because I was like, all right, I'm kind of trying to upgrade this.

Yeah, that makes sense. And I could also say that while I stopped tracking exercise and writing, I also stopped tracking reading and I wasn't ready for that one because I kind of stopped reading. So you have to be careful. You have to look for the signs that it's truly habit. You don't have to worry about it falling off like my reading did. Yep.

Yeah, that makes sense. And I could also say that while I stopped tracking exercise and writing, I also stopped tracking reading and I wasn't ready for that one because I kind of stopped reading. So you have to be careful. You have to look for the signs that it's truly habit. You don't have to worry about it falling off like my reading did. Yep.

Another of the principles you talk about, you say, goal and intention, tangibility, habit formation is typically lacking in one area of the sensus. Say a little bit more about that.

Another of the principles you talk about, you say, goal and intention, tangibility, habit formation is typically lacking in one area of the sensus. Say a little bit more about that.

Yeah, so I think that that's referring to like the habit posters, where usually if you're tracking your habits, which is good, usually it's just this little thing on a line in a journal or something. You have to open the journal and then focus on that little line and oh, there's my habit with something like a habit poster. It's like bam, it's on your wall. It's very visible, and it's more tangible than just an idea. And I think that's just very valuable, especially in today's world where the digital space is so crowded, Like how many apps do you have on your phone? One hundred, two hundred?

Yeah, so I think that that's referring to like the habit posters, where usually if you're tracking your habits, which is good, usually it's just this little thing on a line in a journal or something. You have to open the journal and then focus on that little line and oh, there's my habit with something like a habit poster. It's like bam, it's on your wall. It's very visible, and it's more tangible than just an idea. And I think that's just very valuable, especially in today's world where the digital space is so crowded, Like how many apps do you have on your phone? One hundred, two hundred?

Too many?

Too many?

So if you put your habit in there, it can absolutely get lost. And I've tried. I've tried habit tracking on my phone and it has not ever worked. Maybe I've done like a week or two, but it just doesn't work because that's a place of distraction for.

So if you put your habit in there, it can absolutely get lost. And I've tried. I've tried habit tracking on my phone and it has not ever worked. Maybe I've done like a week or two, but it just doesn't work because that's a place of distraction for.

Me, right absolutely. Although there was a website that I used for a lot of years. It was called Joe's Goals and yeah, very simple, and I loved it because you could give different habits different point values and gamified it in a kind of fun way for me. And it was a very very simple app. So that was the one digital version of tracking that actually did work for me. But I agree with you, I tried countless ones on my phone and it just never sticks.

Me, right absolutely. Although there was a website that I used for a lot of years. It was called Joe's Goals and yeah, very simple, and I loved it because you could give different habits different point values and gamified it in a kind of fun way for me. And it was a very very simple app. So that was the one digital version of tracking that actually did work for me. But I agree with you, I tried countless ones on my phone and it just never sticks.

There's something about also, just like writing a check mark or an X, or even placing a sticker. That's a lot more satisfying than tapping your phone in a spot because it's more tangible.

There's something about also, just like writing a check mark or an X, or even placing a sticker. That's a lot more satisfying than tapping your phone in a spot because it's more tangible.

Absolutely, absolutely, Okay, So let's talk about the overall approach.

Absolutely, absolutely, Okay, So let's talk about the overall approach.

Here.

Here.

You list a variety of different steps, So maybe I'll just sort of lay out each step and then you can add a little comment if you want to it, if you say, you know, start by choosing about. I love the about because everything's flexible and elastic. First you choose up to three habits.