Hi, I'm Arden Marine Fromentationabal and then will you accept this Rose podcast? And I'm Julianne Robinson, an Emmy nominated director of Bridgeton And where are the hosts of Lady of the Road? A funny and inspiring podcast where we have conversations with influential women about their lives and we get self help advice because we are always looking to improve ourselves. True story. We talk about money, health, relationships, you name it, from inspiring women like Joan Jet, Nicole Buyer, Lauren Lopez, Raheta and more. Listen and subscribe to Lady of the Road on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. The Gangster Chronicles podcast is a weekly conversation that revolves around underworld and criminals and entertainers to victims, crime and law enforcement. We cover all facets of the game gains. The Chronicles podcast doesn't glorify from modilstit of activities. We just discussed the ramifications and repercussions of these activities. Because at the Wall she played gamester games who are ultimately rewarded with Gangster Prizes. Our Heart Radio is number one for podcast, but don't take our word forward find against the Chronicles podcast I Heart Radio at wherever you get your podcast. Hi, I'm Hillary Clinton and I'm so excited to be back with a third season of You and Me both. When I started this podcast, we were going through some tough times, and let's face it, we still are. And here's what I know. We cannot get through this alone. So please join me for more conversations with people who will make you think, make you laugh, and help us find a path forward. This season, I'll be talking about the state of our democracy with experts and with people organizing on the ground. We'll draw inspiration from some amazing people like Olympic star Alison Felix and Grammy Award winner Brandy Carlisle. And we'll get into the hard stuff with writer Cheryl Strait and my dear friend and colleague Juma Aberdeen. So join us listen to you and Me both on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. My name is Randoline Horn. I was the director of photography on the Office and sometimes Director of the Office. Hello everybody, thanks for joining us back here on the Office Deep Dive. As always, I am your host, Brian Baumgartner, now today we have such a treat for you. This episode, all right, is the beginning of a kind of mini series, a deep dive within the deep dive, if you will, about the camera on the Office, specifically the camera as a character. As I have said many times, the thing that I am most proud of about the Office is the attention to detail about the camera. Every shot was meticulously thought out to make it feel like a real documentary. In every scene we shot, there was always a conversation about the camera's angle, the way that it moved, and the intention of the camera. And so who better to talk about all of this than the guy who shot it, the guy who was holding the camera, Randall Einhorn. Now I love Randall's story. Okay, I'm not gonna give it away, but let me just say that he started out as a river guide deep in Australia, might down Under into wilderness, and then he ended up as dep of the Office. It's incredible. And even though Randall is this like adventurer, e outdoorsman guy who'd rather sleep in dirt than a bed, he is also the sweetest guy that you'll ever meet. And he and I have spent many a night at his home, which used to be an ash ram, drinking wine, looking at the stars and talking about life and the things that are really important. And as you'll hear momentarily, he still holds what we did on the office as something truly special. Folks, there may be some tears today. Okay, I'm not saying who's but you're gonna find out soon enough. So please welcome the man behind the camera, Randall Einhorn. Bubble and squeak. I love it. Bubble and squeak, Bubble and squeaker. Cookie every month, lift over from the Natty. I mean, you know how it is here you're over there. It's just been crazy. I just came up for air myself. I just I did a pilot for HBO Max that I just finished shooting on Friday. Yeah, you know pilot. It's really good. Really yeah. They're doing eight shows in the next uh this thank you volumes on the left here, Okay, no one has adjusted the volume yet. I'm going to that. It's on the left. You watch me if I get too much of you. I just just did this on the left. Nothing nothing at all. Can't hear it at all. I can hear you. Now, try to get back out last it. Um, So it's HBO Max. It's got eighty new shows that they're doing next year, and mine was I hope one of them. Have you seen Launch forty nine? No? Um, I mean unless that makes me sound dumb, and then yes I have, but I don't remember much about it. Remind me you haven't seen Nobody watched it. It was an hour on AMC. This feels weird talking to you looking at you with through the microphone and the headphones. Why we're just having a chat? Um, What did you do Lodge forty I did the pilot for that on AMC and that was an hour and it was on just after A Better Call Saul. Here's my issue. AMC is just confusing to me, and I'll tell you why. The reason is, they do remarkable shows, but I never understand when it's things are on right, So I just eventually, But I'm the schmuck that like, I'm like, oh, shoot, Better Call Saul has had four episodes and then I go buy them on Amazon or whatever. So I'm I'm I guess I'm contributing to their bottom. Certainly are thank you very much? Maybe they used to do it for Lodge forty nine by um. All right, so now you're a big time Hollywood director of super big time, really big time. If I can draw Randall Ironhorn, super big, super big, super big. Does anyone ask you like, oh, is this your production company? And You're like, no, I'm just super big time. It's a super big time. I actually have a production company name finally, because I have. I sold three pilots this year. Um, sad Unicorn, sad Unicorn. Yeah, because the iron Horn is unicorn? And why is it sad? Because it's funny when a unicorn is sad? Right, that might be the best production company name that I've ever heard, Sad Unicorn, Like, yeah, I will say, I don't know why. The only other name that is popping into my head that that I think can compete with Sad Unicorn is bad Robot. I think bad Robot. That's a really good That's a really good one. I also thought about Misery Loves Company. There you go. That sounded like a game show ceo on the end, you have all Right, I'm gonna say that I was about to compliment you, but I don't. I don't feel I don't feel quiet. Um now I don't I don't feel quite ready. Um. All right, so now you're this big time super big, super big, super big time sorry, super big time, um writer, producer. What were you doing prior to the years two thousand and five ish four ish five ish? What were what were you working on? Then? So I came in. The reason I got to the office is I was deepeeing some extreme sports stuffy snowboarding with Sean White and Jeremy Jones who are snowboarders, and Jackson Hole and Ben Silverman decided that I was the guy to shoot the office because I can shoot outdoor extreme sports, so therefore you should shoot the office because you've I mean, I came from outdoor adventure sports. I came from the Eco Challenge, and then I was a DP on Survivor as well the whole time, the first season of Survivor, the first season I did be the first one, and then I ended up, you know, being operator on six More. Wow. So I came from outdoor adventure pursuits and then I ended up in a fluorescent uh office? Right? And did you work with Ben? How did you know Ben? Because Ben came to Jackson Hole while I was shooting this extreme sports stuff. And decided I was the guy. And so he went to Greg and said, this is our guy. Yeah, this is our guy. And Greg and I said a meeting to meet at a coffee being near here, which was on Santa Monica Boulevard. And I knew of a coffee being on Santa Monica Boulevard, so I was new to the Los Angeles. I lived to our from a stoplight in Australia, so I knew of a coffee being on Santa Martica Boulevard. I went there and I waited for Greg for like fifteen minutes, and then I figured, oh I should I should call and see where he is. Well, he was at the coffee being on Santa Monica just about twenty ten miles away. So I showed up for the meeting about forty five minutes late. But Greg's all right. So yeah, we hung out and that's my first meeting with Greg. And did and then did you wait? Or were you were? You were hired pretty quickly after that. I was hired pretty quickly after that. I think in that initial conversation, like I I, I referred to the office as a tofu hot dog, and I remember Greg kind of latched onto that I think he liked it. But what what it meant to me is it's it's good food wrapped like chunk food, so you had you had to always kind of dissect it and kind of, you know, put it in a veneer, and you're always putting it under a veneer of something just caught or just just cleaned, or shoot it on a long lens, so it appears to be privileged information, which is extra juicy for the viewer. Right. We talked a lot about what I thought it should look like because I really came from a documentary world, and um, it always feels false to me when I see a camera right next to people who were having a very into conversation. And I told Greg, I think that that camera should be a very very long way away so that the viewers really leaning in they feel privileged by it. They feel like it feels it reads more honest if it's camera is a long way away as opposed to its just being right there, because people would have an awareness of that camera and it's subliminal. But to me, it makes sense. Ken Koppas talked to me a little bit about having to work for a shot that he didn't want the camera necessarily in the right place to get the perfect set up television shot. That if there was a filing cabinet in the way, or if there was a pillar in the way, that that was actually a good thing that the camera had to work to find it. Yeah, Einstein said, in the midst of difficulty lies opportunity. And I think that what we did on the Office, like when we build the first season we shot on you know, in J. J. Abrams office, there was a real office with real doors and real low ceilings and real everything, and everything was difficult, and every single thing that made it more difficult may it better because you had to work for it, and it made it seem more real. So we were always putting stuff in the way, and you know, making it the more inconvenient was the more real and grounded it felt, which I think allowed the comedy to go a little bit further because the more grounded the look of it, maybe you can push things a little bit more comedically. Right. I remember, Um, you shooting constantly and being like, yeah, I think this shot is too pretty, and you would just pull you yourself would just pull the plant over so there would be some leaves in the corner of the screen again, like trying to block it. Yeah, trying to trying to be hidden as if we were, you know, gleaning something that we were privileged to see. You know, we did that all the time on Survivor. If people are having a conversation just back way up the beach, and it makes it feel more real. Um. I remember when we've moved out of JJ's office and we built and on a stage. We had like a I don't know, a thirty thousand square foot stage. We and we built this office. And normally in normal television shows, they would they would make the walls so that it can fly away, and they would make everything so you can shoot through. You know, you can pull a wall away and shoot put the camera there easily. And we didn't do any of that. Everything that made it more difficult made it better. And it's I think we owe it all to Einstein. In the midst of difficulty lies opportunity. I think that's brilliant. But that was he said it in German. It didn't sound as lyrical m hm instinct. I don't know what it is, but oh, you bring out your German. Yeah, if I sneak, that's all I can say. Really. Um so, the only thing that was changed from the practical office space too when we set up on the sound stage, because we wanted the whole uh dimensions and everything to be the same. Wasn't there like a nine inches increased in the conference room or something like that? I think I think we made the conference room like nine inches wider, and we made the kitchen like a foot and a half wider, okay, just to try to get your ass in the corner, just because I'm not a small ass, just to try to get it as far into the corner to shoot that, you know, exactly. And the kitchen was still really really really hard to shoot. And you know, I had all these reflective surfaces all all over. And I think we made the doors like four inches higher because I don't remember. We were. We boomed the whole show, which was crazy but but really worth it. And the camera would go in and the cameras I'm six five and the camera was like another I'm five ten. I thought you'd pick up on that anyway, you think of me at six five, right, six five? That's how I think of myself too. Anyway, Um you know, I'm five ten, and the camera would be another you know, four inches above my head and then and then the boom would come in the room over my head. So we had all the you know, entering a room was always a an adventure. Yeah, So we we tried to shoot the office as cruthful as possible, and there were rules. For instance, we could not show where another camera was because that would that would give up the lie. Like in in other words, if someone if a camera is standing in a doorway, um, and another character comes to that doorway and I'm over the shoulder of that character, we would never show that character standing in that doorway because there should be another camera there. So we would never show a big wide shot of a room. That is completely conventional in all television. You would see the wide and then you would see the tights, and within that wide there should have been cameras inside. In the right. If it's a documentary, if Steve standing at his office and someone is filming Steve and then we cut, we go back, and then we have a camera that's shooting over Steve. To the rest of the of of the people in the bullpen watching, you should see a camera man standing behind them. Yeah. And and the rule that we came up with is if it could have possibly been done by being at least skilled verite documentary cameraman, we could do it. If not, we shouldn't do it right. Um. And so we always we always tried to figure out another way of doing it. And I think that that made it cooler. It made it made it so much more challenging and and more interesting. But we had rules. We had rules that we would not break. Did you ever catch a camera man. We would whip through each other at times, but we would hope that you would never use the take where we whipped through each other. Um. But we would also just duck and Matt would know that I have to duck down, or I would he would duck down when I'm whipping through him. You remember one of your favorite examples of doing that. There are so many. We were always we were always hiding. We were always hiding from each other because we were shooting three sixty. Which is a tricky thing about lighting that set is we were just using the fluorescent lights to make these scoops, these light scoops to send out a soft wall. Um. I don't know what wait to say that again, these light scoops to send out a soft wash. So we had these say that again, we had these We made these milar box. These boxes out a cardboard with milar inside of them and a piece of diffusion. You would stick that milar that. You'd stick that box on a light and that's the light that would send out a nice soft wash to the rest of the room. But not on a fluorescence. We weren't really using fluorescence. We were really using fluorescence. Yep, unbelievable. Get you fired from other shows, Well, that's that's what you're supposed to do on our show. Do whatever would get you fired on other shows. I didn't know any better. Sound it all worked out. 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I'm Zoe de Chanelle and I'm so excited to be joined by my friends and cast mates Hannah Simone and Lamar and Morris to recap our hit television series, New Girl. Join us every Monday on the Welcome to Our Show podcast, where we'll share behind the scenes stories of your favorite New Girl episodes, revealed the truth behind the legendary game True American, and discuss how this show got made with the writers, guest stars, and directors who made the show so special. Fans have been begging us to do a New Girl recap for years, and we finally made a podcast where we answer all your burning questions like is there really a bear in every episode of New Girl? Plus each week you'll hear hilarious stories like this at the end when he says you got some schmid on your face. I feel like I pitched that joke. I believe that I feel like I did. I'm not on a thousand percent I want to say that was I tossed that one out. Listen to the Welcome to Our Show podcast on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts, and you know, there were so many things that were done to create this ultra reality and working conditions that we're not on the outside pleasant. We were stuck in that room. We were there all day long camera moving around, which really the other potentially most important character and the whole show was the camera itself in terms of creating that family and everybody there. It was the camera guys and one boom operator. We were all in there together. We were just you know, fitting in where you could get in. I mean, so much of that place was not not an easy place to move and it wasn't convenient, but it was awesome, I mean, being able to work all that out. And you know, having come from a cinema verity style, documentary style. While I had done a shameful amount of reality TV, it wasn't my flavor of choice. It was just something I had done. So I was really used to just trying to fit in where we could get in, and like you know, the other operator and then DP and then director of the show, Matt Son, we had shot a bunch of reality gun together. You know, they talk about the line when you know the line is is, and cameras want to be on one side of the line or another. They don't want to be on either side of the line because one person's face will be looking left to right, and you want the person they're talking to face to be looking right to left. If you're on the wrong side of the line, you'll end up with two people looking left to right and it won't look like they're having a conversation. So we always paid a lot of tension to the line. But it's also that one thing that we just kind of were so versed in because you have to be when you're telling a story that is truly caught, that line comes very naturally. So blocking scenes was a blast, and it was so much fun just Matt and I just looking at each other and the boom boom person operator looking at us like, Okay, where do I go? Um? And that's not my problem, right, because you're a sound guy, right. But a ton You bring up a great point that a ton of our rehearsal time was really about not blocking of actors, but blocking of the cameras and and in every show, you you have to, you know, figure out where the camera is and how it's moving. But the intricacies of that to make sure that you could capture the action was truly masterful. Well we I think we spend a lot we spent a lot less time on that on the office, blocking, blocking camera and blocking. You know, for me, the best way of of gleaning a scene on the office was everybody be with there a d and I will shoot what I can. And that's kind of how we did it. And I remember Harold Ramis came in and he everybody's so excited. Harold Raymis is all I said, Oh my god, Carold Ramos said, And he spent like a week extra just blocking the show. And there was a point where, you know, the rehearsal was done and he had a theory of how it would be blocked, and you know, Matt and I just kind of stood back and used our fingers as if there were cameras and you get this, I'll get this. Great, we'll cross the line here, we'll come over there, we'll come around here. You don't need duck because I'm zooming through you to get this line. And I'll duck from you to zoom through, and Harold looked at me and he says, I should just throw my plans out right. I'm like, no, Mr Ramas, it's a real privilege sort of that is so happy to here. I'm sure that all that work you did in there with graces and this is okay. I'll keep it for a little bit. And then we just blocked another scene. He because I should chuck this out right. I'm like, no, Mr Ramas, it's really great to see you coming away in with with a plan. He just don't ship me, kid, I should get rid of this. I'm like, oh, you could keep it as back up. Oh my gosh, that is amazing. Yeah. Well, one of the things that um, one of the things that Ken mentioned was that actually in traditional documentaries you don't see that whippan that um there was some discussion slash argument early on about people not wanting to include that, but you know, he felt like that on television, that that those visual cues of of messiness was was really important. Did you feel the same way. Yeah, I remember, like I just watched an earlier episode of the Office, and my god, the camera work because outstanding was the one one thing I took away, but um, you know, it's kind of insistent that if if somebody would, you know, like if Michael was wanted to close his office door, the persistence of the camera, it's like, no, I'm gonna look through the blinds, Okay, you close the blinds, Okay, I'm gonna come around of these and I'm gonna get in, and just it just made it feel more delicious and that that the camera was no cozy and it was really was not relenting. It wasn't going to give you the space. It might let you think you have the space to go have a private moment, but it probably had another angle on you anyway. But that but that's what I mean about the camera being a character itself, that it was an active participant in the action. Yeah, it's certainly, you know, I definitely feel like the camera was was a character in the show. And some of the some of the best direction I ever got from directors was the type of direction you had give an actor. You feel this, you're you're worried about this, you're curious about that, but you know this, And it was kind of a similar type of direction you'd give an actor, And that was some of the best, you know, um inspiration as a camera like to that that the camera always had a point of view, it had an agenda, It had its own stories it wanted to tell, regardless of what the characters in the show wanted to tell. That was the thing that I was the most proud of. I think of everything in the show, how much care and thought was put into the camera, and not just their attitude, but the camera as it related to the other characters in the space. Every single scene, there was always a decision made, and I'm tremendously proud of that. And you're working that, thank you. Yeah, it was. It was so much fun. I mean I remember doing scenes and I think that at any different time, the camera would have a different relationship with the characters, just like another character would have a different relationship with the character. Like I would look at Jenna and I would you know, Jenna would smile and I would smile back. I just could not not um. You know, at times I think I was probably somebody who is invasive to Michael Scott's privacy, or when you caught Michael Scott in an embarrassing moment and he really wishes you weren't there. Um, that's where I think so much of the fun is, or when Rain thinks he's gonna he's gonna pull one over on Jim, and you just kind of like, Okay, I'm gonna go along with this with you because it'll be fun and it'll make a great TV story. So, yeah, you had it definitely felt like I had relationships with everybody on that show. Yeah, and the you just brought us something that I hadn't had sort of forgotten about or hadn't thought about how significant it was. But on most television shows, as an actor, when you're shooting it the camera, the person who's operating the camera is typically very dead faced, often just looking into the lens or having their head down or sort of turned away, and the sort of traditional um, you know, that's just sort of traditionally how it's done because you're attempting to not distract the actor from whatever they're saying, whether it's serious or dramatic or funny or whatever. But you would laugh, like you would specifically ask the camera laugh and interact with the action that's going on, and that's so rare and also helpful most of the time, probably really unprofessional. Well, no, but I think no, but I think that was part of it. I mean, I think it actually we talk about the camera as the character, but it really was you. I mean, it really was the operator of the camera who was that character, much like you know the quote unquote documentarian who was usually the director who was asking questions during the talking. That's fascinating. I never thought about that before, but you're laughing. And total lack of professionalism was actually a benefit. It's unbelievable that in the terrible lighting I do and the terrible lighting right, and I don't know, you know, for me, form follows function. The fact that you're the camera has a point of view and it's really trying to discover things, and it has its own agenda that informs why that show looks that way, which is other shows that I did don't have that look. It's a real important for me to try to find the right look for any show I'm doing, and being a character in that place, investigating what the stories that are going on informed to me how that show should look. It's really documentary, right, I mean, it was really about trying to find all of the elements of making a documentary, and in a true documentary, it's being put together solely in the editing bay, and the story that's happening actually in real time that you don't get retakes of. You get what you get, whereas in this you were really telling the story in the moment visually that then you know, we take the best takes, and we do. But but but how that story is told is influenced way more by you as the operator of the camera then in post the editors might disagree. But I I think the attitude that the camera has on set is certainly how the story is told. Do you think the editors would disagree? No, No, I don't know. I'm just giving him a dig. No, No, I think they loved, they enjoyed that attitude, and they always would would cut that attitude in there because I think that was a really a special sauce that no other show had. And although we didn't shoot a whole lot of wonders, right, so one shot that carries us through an entire scene that you can't really cut up. You you really were oftentimes by connecting, as you said, Jenna to John, we see John and then we see Rain looking at John looking at Jenna, and you you see the realization from all of those characters. What's happening in that moment. It's not an Orson Wells however many minutes a wonder, but you're still creating the story that an editor can't change. We did, We did a lot. I mean I always tried to do a lot of Warners because I thought they told so much. They gave so much background us to where everybody was, and and things just would often line up so beautifully. Um. I really enjoy those things where you see Steve go into his office and the camera tried to go into his office and he just shuts the door, and then he just shuts the blinds, and then he just shuts the other blinds and then he goes around to the other You know, I really enjoy that. It tells me what the camera's thinking in a really cool way. Do you remember any happy accidents or things that happened in Warners that you you would not have been able to get if you had shot it differently? Which certainly tried to shoot Like the gym and Pam Kiss, I was so far away from them. Ken Cooppas was directing, and I was in the kitchen and all the lights were out and we just had barely barely light on, and it was a really long lens shot. It was probably three d millimeter long lens shot. It's really so it just felt it felt so real, and I remember doing it is like, you know, I was actually getting choked up, and I knew very well that I was John Krasinski and Jenna Fisher and that there was craft service just out the out the door, and I would see John and Jenna there in a minute, but I would still get emotionally involved. I would get invested because it, to me, when I was shooting, looked real and I was with those characters and it all felt real. Yeah, that's amazing. Well that was beautiful. My um, what I was thinking of was not nearly as sweet as what you said. We tried to do kind of a wonder. I don't think it was actually a wonder, but in stress relief in the episode where the fake fire drill happens, where Dwight lights the fire, and we tried to do that. And I don't know if you remember this, but there's a shot where Kevin me I'm running through the office, I'm running through the kitchen to go from the I've just raided the vetting machine and I'm running through the kitchen and I shoulder you, I nudge you. You go down on the on your ass on the ground, and Chris Workman, who was the camera assistant, huge beefy, very strong guy, reaches down, picks you up by the shoulders. You stand back up with the camera and keep filming. And that that stayed in. Oh man. I was so proud of that, you and more of me, but of you, and most I was really proud of Chris. I mean he picked me up like I'm not small and is not small, um and he just picked me up with one arm and I'm like, did I fall down? I'm like yeah, he kept rolling and it is in the show and it's great. It's felt so real. I remember, I remember, I'm backing up, backing up, backing up, backing up. Not fast enough. Boom, I'm up again. Thank you Chris. Yeah. It's funny because like on on normal, normal TV shows, where there's always a guy who's guiding you backwards, and I never wanted and I was always weirded out by somebody guiding me to where I should be because I always always kind of looked half look behind me and half looped through the viewfinder and just normally it's a grip who's doing that. And I never wanted that. I never never allowed that. But Chris was there that day. He was there. He totally caught me. I think maybe he was opening the door for me as well, because I was rushing back, you were rushing backwards. There was the door. We kind of got missed time because the door was I don't remember, but I shouldered you and thought, oh, that's bad, and then realized we were still going, and I kept going. He was still going. I remember also there was a time there was some on the basketball episode, John got his nose a bloody nose, and the story was he was supposed to get a bloody nose, but he actually really got a bloody nose. So I'm I'm rushing right in there because John's bleeding and I'm shooting it, and he stayed with it. He's like, okay, all right, we've cut because my nose hurts. But I remember we just so rold with it. I also remember up on the roof, Dwight and Michael we're throwing a watermelon off the roof onto a trampoline to try to hit Stanley's car. And they didn't think they'd be able to hit Stanley's car. But and we thought, okay, we're gonna have to do this visual effects and it's going to be a fake Watermelon's gonna smash on the car. And we're all, you know, leaning over the roof in harnesses, and they throw the watermelon off. It hits the trampoline and hits Stanley's car and dense the roof and it was a real It really happened. So I just pan back up to them and they just kept going with it. It was it was fantastic. Um. There was another thing that has come up. Talk to me a little bit about the positioning of the talking heads and and where certain characters were shot and if there was there a reason for which direction there was, and and I don't know if you know everybody else and anybody ever got this. It just meant meant something to me. And that was, you know, everybody was shot, UM pointing into the office where Leslie was sitting so in front of Stanley except for Jim, because I thought that Jim was the one person who was going to leave that place and they had something bigger they wanted to do, and so Jim got to his position was looking out the window and the parking lot in the sun. And eventually once Jim and Pam got together, then Jim and Pam were both in front of the windows because they're both going to leave this place and go to some place better. That's awesome. I love that. That's like, what do they call the kids an easter egg? That's an easter egg for the kids. That's an Easter egg. If I could be you and you could be me for just one hour, if you could find a way to get inside each other's mind, walcome mile in my shoes. Wacome Mile in my shoes. Shoes. We've all felt left out, and for some that feeling lasts more than a moment. We can change that learn how it Belonging begins with us dot org, brought to you by the ACT Council. Welcome out and my shoes. What's up, guys. I'm a Shot Balau and I am Troy Millions and we are the host of the Earnier Leisure podcast where we break down business models and examine the latest trans and finance. 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Listen to Ernie Leisure on the Black Effect Podcast Network, I Heart Radio, app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Look to your children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest. It's a storybook world for them. You look and see a tree, they see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched. To the sky, they see treasuring pebbles, they see a windy path that could lead to adventure, and they see you. They're fearless. Guide, is this fascinating world? Find a forest near you and start exploring and discovered the forest dot org, brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the ad Council. So you were telling stories in the reality world and then you know, being the director of photography and holding the camera. But then now you move into directing for your first time. So what was the first thing you directed? You know it was it was the office because Greg said, you're telling jokes with the camera, like trying to He says you should direct some I'll try too. And Greg started, you know, insisted that I start directing. And you started with the webisodes, right, No, No, I started with um first one I did was I think I'm right the accountants Las Contador Contadores. I thought I thought I was. I thought I didn't initiation Ben Franklin, and then office party. I thought it was after that, We're gonna check the records. I mean, didn't we check the records? Guys? Didn't I do them? As anyone listening, I think I'm right. I think The Accounts was first, but it doesn't matter. So NBC and Ben and Greg, Um, this idea is hatched, or a request is made from the network that while we're not shooting one summer, we want to continue UM to tell stories of other cast members who maybe don't get as much attention during some of the episodes. And we created the first ever digital streaming series for a network, which was called Los Contadores The Accountants, and you directed that. Um, how was that different or what did you think doing it? Well, remember that it was done without resources, none, none, whatsoever. Um. I shot it on a camera you could buy at uh arget. It was like a camera. I was pulling my own focus. I think I had a gaffer and and a and a grip and that was it. We had nobody else and so I shot it with one camera and I directed it and it was really fast and it was really fun. And I love the Accountants. I mean, that's the cool that's that's really where the cool kids are. It really is what I remember you saying when we started working on that was kind of like, I don't know what it is. It's it's like there's school or there's work. And then there's like, you know, an extracurricular activity or something that you get to do which is still at school, but you can be a little bigger. And I remember you saying like, we don't have to play even by our own weird rules for the office, Like we can invent a different style for for this to exist. And it's I went back and watched it. It's really fun. Yeah, it was just fun to just to do do it such a skeleton crew, I mean everything, But like when we went to New York. Remember the first time we went to New York was me, Greg and Steve. That was it. And then we had we had to hire a We had to hire a union gaffer and a grip and they just sat in the van and the whole day they just sat in the van. Who who hell? Who held the camera? I shot it on a tiny little you know, consumer camera. Did Yeah, we just take it like a three thousand dollar camera there and it just sticks in my bag. You just put it in your suitcase and took it on a plane with Steve Carrell and Greg Daniels and shot shots outside of New York City. Yeah, because New York City looks beautiful and anything you could do to it in a lighting sense, it's probably gonna screw it up. So we just shot what was there. That's amazing. Yeah, I would love to see the stuff with it that we shot that. We just played that. We just you know, we're just screwing around because there was a bunch did you have what did you have security or no? No one was closing off the street, you know, nothing, nothing at all. I remember with a night did Steve have a trailer? Like, I'm so curious about all of this. We stayed at the w and Steve and I we got in and we went to go get We went to Johnny's for a slice. And at the time, there was you know, the forty year old Virgin posters were a Times Square, and there was the Chipmunks movie that he was in, and the office was getting big, and and I remember Steve and I walking to Johnny's and then walking home on Times Square where there's a bazillion people, and Steve being as gracious to the first person who stopped him as he was to the thousandth person that stopped him. He just was never in a hurry, never wanted to go. It was great. That's who that guy is. That is who that guy is. Initiation was two thousand six, which was which was what season? Oh dang it, you got it in the right order, and I changed it around because I thought you were wrong. Um, all right, so you are telling stories by holding the camera. You've told stories shooting through reality. Now you finally got your first chance to actually direct a scripted program, which was on the Office initiation Yeah, and um I think yeah. B J wrote it and it was when Dwight takes b J out to the farm to initiate him. And there was one of my favorite lines of the Office that we got to do improv of that was just as you plant that seat in the ground, I am going to plant my seat in you. And it made the television so amazing and it made telesion that is so amazing. Um, how did leaving the office so going to the beat Farm or you know, we think about the show as being so stuck in that one place, and it's known obviously the iconic the office, the bullpen that we shot most of the stuff in. But then as the seasons began to move and we started to go out, for example, the Beat Farm, did that alter anything? Leaving that bullpen? Environment. I think, well, you know, if we try to make the bullpen environment seemed like a prison um, which I think we did um, then outside could be the liberation, a liberating feeling, Dick, get people outside, get people breathing fresh air. Like there's a scene in the Beat Farm right just back the camera's way off, really really far away, and it's just Dwight and b J in the you know, b J on his knees planting a seed and and uh and just back the camera way off and just let the sun play. And it was just gorgeous. So I tried to make it up a reprieve a break from women, not the of fluorescent tubes. Was that a metaphor? No, I don't know what a metaphor. I don't either. It might have been someone just sent it. But I should say that word a lot. So I've just been trying. I've been trying to use the word metaphor dramaturgy, and I'm gonna try to work it in here some place. The word I keep using is juxtaposition. Juxtaposition nice, yeah, because there's an X in it, and words with exs make you seem real smart. Contextual is as well. I mean contextualize a great word. When you contextualize the juxtaposition of ideas, it's um usually enlightening. This good stuff. Um I uh. But that was the first time we went to the Beat Farm. That was the first time at the at the Beat Farm. Yeah, and you know, it was it was It was really really cool to get to direct a show, the show because everybody had in my back. Everybody was so supportive and tolerant and and I knew how I wanted to shoot it too, but everybody was just so behind me, and that just felt incredible, you know. And I think I've gone on and I've directed fifteen or sixteen episodes of the show, and Greg Daniels like, bless his heart, he was you know, I started to think, maybe I want to do more directing, and Greg, let me go direct other TV shows and come back to the office two d P. And nobody in this industry does that. Nobody does that for people. Yea. So he wanted you to be able to pursue what you wanted to do and welcomed you back whenever you could certainly did. That's pretty special. That's really special. Yeah. No, I mean, everybody you know that you're shooting twenty two episodes or something in a season, and and everybody needs to be there pulling their weight, and Greig's like, no, you should go do something else. Yeah, it's awesome. Yeah you know that's Greg. It's Greg. Yeah. So end of season six, you leave the office. How difficult was it to make that decision to leave? You know? I mean I think that's when I stopped dpeeing. Yeah, when I stopped dpeying, that was That was scary. I was really scary because I knew I could shoot. I mean I didn't go to film school. I didn't go to school. I I you know, I barely graduated high school, but I high school, you mean third grade? I do. Um, you know. I didn't really have a backup plan other than maybe I could go back to the office if they say don't. Didn't work, and it was a very good job, and I had fun doing it every single day. But I started I fell in love with directing. I still love shooting, but I fell in love with directing. And it was scary because I had this job for six years. And in television, having a job for six years is unheard of. There are very few shows that get to do that and I was making good money, and I moved my family out here from Australia to try so I could go home at night. And it was scary to step away, but I really felt very safe that I was that Greg would always be there, he'd always let me back in right, And you know, a lot of conversation obviously about when Steve left, but I remember when you left and it was a deeply emotional time for us as well. I mean, I remember us talking about it, and you're talking about some of your fear or anxiety, but feeling like it was it was time. And you know, as one of those quite frankly core cast members um that we're together. I remember that being a very it was very difficult for us. We knew we were going to miss you. I missed everybody, and it was it was that that was tricky. It was like leaving home. You know, It's like you know you need to or you're not going to grow, but at the same time, the home is a great place. What are you most proud of about the show or thankful for? You know, what I'm thankful for is Greg giving me the chance, Gregg and Bet and giving me the chance. I mean it's completely changed my life. I'm you know, it's and they did it in such a gracious way. That's another thing I think about. It's like there was never a bad idea on the office, never a bad If somebody in craft service gave Graig an idea, He's like, that's a great idea, he would go run with it. So it was it was just I think what I love so much about it is it was just so collaborative and it wasn't always easy to find a way to do something, but we always figured it out. And and I think it was Greg he first said, yeah, everything we do everything that everything makes it harder, makes it better, which I think is kind of a metaphor for life. You know, it strikes me. You know, Ben told me that he went to Kevin Riley and said, this guy Greg Daniels is the guy, the guy who had not worked very much at all in in live action program And then Ben goes to Greg and says, this guy Randa line Horn, he's the guy someone who's never shot a script and show. And it's like these kids got given the keys to this really cool toy that Ricky Gervais created and went Okay, well, let's you know what, let's not worry about doing it how other people would do it, because we haven't done that. Let's do it in our own way. I think there's there's there's something very liberating about not knowing how to do something that you come up with your your own way of doing it. That might be special. You know, I didn't. I had no formal film training whatsoever. I just thought I like that, Oh that's cool, and that's what I would, you know, I would just get to chase what I felt was cool, not what I thought I knew. Yeah, the notion of hiring a documentarian to be the documentarian on a scripted TV show, when you dissect that, I don't know that that's necessarily the wisest choice, but it really worked. And I think obviously Ben saw something and and Greg saw something, and it's not necessarily the choice that I think people would ever make, but they did. They did. Where do you think you would be right now if the office had never happened? Australia? Probably the out Yeah. I love Rain. Remember Rain used to make fun of my accident, which I don't hear. Do I have? You do have an accent now when you listen to this, You'll be like, oh yeah, I mean no, my rain rains. My there I was. It was beautiful, caught a while bull my gold just beautiful, so amazing. Um. I just want you to know that I think the work you did in creating the vision of this show and the aesthetic is truly all inspiring. Thank you. Yeah, and all of your success, um is well deserved. Even though you're an idiot reality guy. Um, you turned out to be pretty dead gum smart and I love you, ma'am, thank you. I love you too. It was a pretty unhappy reality guy. It was my first scripted job and I've I was really lucky. Alright, awesome anything else you guys? That was fun. Dude, I can't believe I cheered up, is greg guy, But yeah, I can't. I can't believe it. How incredible was that? I had so much fun talking to Randall? And as I told him after the recording, he really surprised me during that interview. He was so smart and insightful. I mean, I didn't think he was dumb before, but he quoted Albert Einstein, who does that. And by the way, Randall only has one testicle, so that kind of thinking from a man with one testicle is also very impressive. Maybe we'll get Randall back to talk about that story. That's a gem of a story on another occasion. But thank you Randall. Listen, his work on the Office so special. It would not have been The Office without Randall. Anyway, that's gonna do it for this week, Folks, stay tuned next week as we dive deeper into all things camera with some actors on that subject, and till then, have a great week. The Office Deep Dive is hosted and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer Lange Lee. Our senior producer is Tessa Kramer, our producer is Adam Massias, our associate producer is Emily Carr, and our assistant editor is Diego Tapio. My main man in the booth is Alec Moore. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by my great friend Creed Bratton, and the episode was mixed by seth Olansky The Black Effect present. I didn't know, maybe you didn't either, but the history of black people ain't rooted in slavery. Oh, no is royalty, not despair. Beat out here and every day in February, I will give you a Black history fact that I didn't know and maybe you didn't either. It's a rugged, ratchet, realistic look at history. Listen so I didn't know, maybe you didn't either. On the Black Effect Podcast Network, our Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or just wherever you get your podcast from. Hi, my name is Cassidy Zachary and I am April Callahan, and we are fashion historian YEP and co hosts and the creators of the podcast Dressed the History of Fashion, which is dedicated to investigating the significance of dress from throughout history and around the world. And we are so excited to bring you a brand new season celebrating groundbreaking fashion figures and explain the history of everything from courses to blue jeans. Dressed the History of Fashion is available on the I Heart Radio, app, Apple podcast, or wherever else you listen to your favorite shows. New episode Strapped every Tuesday and Thursday. The art world, it is essentially a money laundering business. The best fakes are still hanging on people's walls. You know they don't even know or suspect that their fakes. I'm Alec Baldwin and this is a podcast about deception, greed, and forgery in the art world. I just walked in and saw this great red painting presuming to be a rothco. Of course, art forgeries only happen because there's money to be made, a lot of money. I'm listening to how what they're paying for these things. It was an incredible amounts of money. You knew the painting was fake. Um. Listen to Art Fraud on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.