Look for your children's eyes and you will discover the true magic of a forest. Find a forest near you and start exploring it. Discover the Forest dot org brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the AD Council. We've all felt left out, and for people who moved to this country, that feeling lasts more than a moment. We can change that. Learn how it belonging begins with us dot org. Brought to you by the AD Council. From Cavalry Audio, the studio that brought you The Devil Within and The Shadow Girls, comes a new true crime podcast, The Pink Moon Murders. The local sheriff believes there may be more than one killery. They were afraid just face it out in that area. The family was targeted, most of them targeted while they were sleeping. The Pink Moon Murders is available on February twenty second, and you can follow The Pink Moon Murders on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I am David Rodgers. I was an editor, director and producer on the Office. Well, hello there, one and all all of you, I'm talking to you there. Welcome to this week's episode of the Office Deep Dive. I am your host, Brian Baumgartner today, I am thrilled. I'm I'm pleased as punch, as they say, to bring on the man who worked well. He worked tirelessly on the Office. I don't think he slept at home for ten years. So he worked to keep the show as fresh, authentic, and well hilarious is possible. And listen his decisions. They actually changed the way that um one view the show because he was the person who would decide what would stay and what would go, and how we would see an experience it all. He was our ridiculously talented editor and later are ridiculously talented producer and director David Rogers, or as I and everyone I know calls him Dave. Now, Dave was actually the very first editor brought onto the Office team. And listen, he was more than just a colleague a co worker. He was actually a true fan of the show from day one. He had has and had an encyclopedia knowledge of the show. He remembered every moment from every episode. I feel like he was the reason Dwight loved Battlestar Galactica. He helped Meredith get hit by a car, and he even had his own nicknames for the cast, like just guess who was called to blu roon. No, it wasn't me, uh Dave. Also, he's a force in the world of TV. The Office won five Emmy's total, two of those went to Dave. He's become a trusted collaborator for so many who worked on the show. He went on to work with Mindy Kaling on The Mendy Project, and Greg Daniels and Steve Carrell on Space Force, among many others. You may also recognize him for his well distinctive voice. He was the voice behind dunder Mifflin's very own documentarian. But before we get into the meat of this interview, and before I let you relive the show through his words, I wanted to let you know that you can also relive the show through our our brand new book, Welcome to dunder Mifflin, The Ultimate Oral History of the Office, which you can pre order on Amazon right now. So go ahead do that, trust me, you're gonna love it. Then come back here, because the time has come for you to be carried away by the incredible wealth of knowledge that is Dave Rogers, Bubble and squeak I love it. Bubble and squeak on bubble and squeaker cookie every month, left over from the night before. Oh my god, oh boy, wow, you look exactly the same. Do you want to know what? You know? You don't say that. Everyone keeps saying it that I look exactly you know. I mean, well, I wanted to say it to you first, so yeah, I usually you wouldn't say it to me. Good to see you too. It's like way too long, I know, are you going to sit over there? Okay, I mean that's the rule. Yeah. I saw Mr Correll yesterday. Yeah, yes, he seemed good. Yeah, he's been in he's been in editing a lot, he has. Yeah. I don't think I realized that he and Greg wrote the pilot, created it together. I think Steve had the idea and then they kind of hammered out like kind of a loose thing, and then Gregg wrote it and then he would give notes and stuff, you know, and then I think that was the process. But I think I think Steve had the idea and it came to Greg and was like, hey, what do you think about that? So yeah, let's let's do it, and then they that was it they pitched and you know, how's Malkovich. He's good, He's good. It's uh. You know. One of the things that we're striving to do is have this kind of dual you know, they they due a little bit, they joust like they're friendly and but there's some jousting and things like that. We're struggling to create new relationships that are different from Michael Scott because he has like one assistant and it's like or like his secretary. And he was saying, he's you know that he has a line where he goes, I really like to get shut up Brad, and it's like we even changed it to like thank you, Brad because it was too much like shut up Dwight. You know. So we're trying cognizant of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The context or the character might be different, but how it's going to be perceived in some small level is going to be you're sort of built in expectation. That's fascinating. Um okay, rewinding back, Um two thousand fourish, what are you doing prior to working on the show. So I was working on the Seinfeld DVDs. You know, I came up. I was assistant editor and Seinfeld that I started cutting. I cut the clip show for that right before the series finale, and Uh, I would always kind of come back and do some Seinfeld things whenever things would pop up. So we were working on the DVDs. We were going through pulling you know, the bloopers behind the scenes and interviewing a bunch of you know, everybody from cast to crew, and making these many documentaries inside looks of all the episodes and just being really meticulous with things. So I was working on that. We we were getting the first three seasons out, and uh the line producer from News Radio, which was another show I had worked on, Ken Sibornac, said Hey, I have a pilot I think you know you'd be good for Uh. I said okay, and then uh I was like, yeah, I'd love to let's talk. And then I didn't hear back from him, and uh, you know, I understood. I always wanted it just to him to say, hey, the directors is going with his editor, you know, and be like, okay, that makes sense, but you've never heard back. I just I didn't hear back, and then uh, I was all right, and then I get an email from him, like I know I know, I owe you a phone call. We got picked up for five episodes. I think you'd be great for the series, you know, would you like to come in and meet Greg Daniels. I'll send you the the pilot. I was like, yeah. So I watched the pilot and I loved it, and it was so I was like, oh God, he's so it's dark, you know, and I love that. Uh. I mean, for me, it's the moment. I'm a huge six million dollar Man fan. So him doing an impression of the six million dollar Man, like referencing it and doing it. They just went on and on, and I was like, I looked at this and I go, I'm doing this show. And I came and I met with Greg and we just hit it off right away and we were talking about things and it's funny. I I was talking about all the characters, and I said, I feel like Dwight would like Battlestar Galactica. And this is before the new Battlestar Galactica. But I thought like Star Trek was too mainstream and cool for him, that he would like this kind of smaller, more cultish old show. And uh, I said, I could just I could just see him having like a viper on his desk, you know, like an old model of of a viper. And so it was funny that when the new show came up and that we they did work that in that he became a Battlestar Galactica fan. But I'm one of my birthdays. Just as a side note, like Greg bought me a huge model of a Cylon base ship like from the original series. And and in the penultimate episode, I got to direct Dwight hangs a Galactica in his office and they were like, do you want the new one or the old one. I'm like, oh, I want the original series one, you know, totally, and I have that. I have the model and Rain signed it for me, you know. But I love he's got he's got a line with his you know, his son, who's he just he looks at the Galactica the same way I look at the Galactica. So it was just kind of it was just kind of funny how that all all came together. But yeah, I just met with Greg. We just hit it off and that was it. And then I was like, Okay, I'm hired and I'm starting on a diversity day was the first episode, and so you were the only editor hired at that point. I was the only editor hired. And I'll say this the deep the Seinfeld DVDs, Jerry and Larry came in to watch one of the documentaries that like how the show began, and Jerry saw it and was like, well, this needs to be on TV. And so then I'm working. Then we're making the Seinfeld story. So now I'm I'm I'm editing to get this thing on TV and we're starting on the office And I said, Greg, I said, there's gonna be a little bit of overlap. There are days where I'll be editing with Jerry Seinfeld, so I'll have to go there and and do that. I said, I'm finishing up, but there's gonna be some So there were a couple of days where he's like, when are you completely done? And I'm like, I'm almost done. I'm almost done, but I was there was a little overlap, but um, yeah, so I I sorry, go ahead. I started on a diversity day. Yeah, but that first season, then you're working on your finishing up the Seinfeld project and you're the only editor on the show. I was the only editor at first, and then we weren't sure when we were going to air. Originally was going to be March, and then they said there's a chance it might be you know, earlier, and Greg said, I'm not going on the air in February. I don't want to be up against everybody's huge stunt episodes. So that meant we would be on the air in January. And because of that, then there was pressure to get the episodes done. So Stu Bass, who's a veteran editor, he came in and so we were we were tag team on a few episodes. So like, I think there were somewhere I cut, There was a couple where he cut, there was somewhere he finished. You know, he like I would do the assembly and he would work with the director and vice versa. Do you feel like you got the aesthetic of the show right away? How much was Greg directing you in terms of how he wanted the show to look or feel. Um, I think I got it right away. I mean I just was like, oh, this is funny. And I mean there's definitely a little difference with ending the just the style of the mockumentary and having these kind of cameras moving around. Um, we played around a lot. Definitely that first season. We spent a lot of time. You know. One of the things that was cool was that they shot you guys, I think in two different outfits. Like we could take general views of you of just like you guys sitting in the office. And even if we shot of for episode one, it also worked for episode three and episode five and then two and four. You might have had similar clothes or something like that. You know, there was something where we had general views that we could kind of steal from one episode and put into another. Um. The one thing that was knew about this kind of show than anything I had done before was usually you know, when you're editing comedy, it's like fast, fast, fast, and you're pacing it up. In here, it was like, no, we need these moments of of breath and it's holding on reactions, and you know, it's a little different than anything I had done before. But once you get into and you're like, Okay, now I know what's what we're looking for. Well, we just explored things and and tried and you know, especially even with the theme song and the main title, different things, Oh my god, we had he sent out like to the cast, he maybe sent to you like, hey, give me five songs that you guys look. So I was building different main titles, you know, twenty we did like twenty five different songs. Here was a song here, there was a song here. John Krasinski had a song from Sloan that was like this is great, um and uh. And I'd have to cut the picture though too. And it wasn't just like all right, I'll just lay the song in. So I was like cutting multiple versions of picture. But ultimately we went with you know, I think Jay Ferguson was the composer and we just his version that was the one we used. From the beginning. Were you planning on using the footage that John Krasinski shot? There was no plan, Like stuff came in and it was like okay, I'll use this and use that, you know, I mean, we just there were all kinds of things. So it was like circling stuff the water cooler. You know. We were just just trying things like to make a main title and things that would hit. And you know, it was hit with the music. So when the song, when the rhythm of the song was different, it had to be totally recut. When we had different songs and and and you know, there were different versions of the main title. There's a longer version. I think for the super Bowl episode we did a longer version of the song. We did shorter versions, you know, towards the end, we would get you know, do really short versions because we needed more time for show. There's also a version and maybe it was the Super Bowl where there was just more of the cast, and then towards the after Steve left, also it was we have okay, here's a shot of Phyllis and Stanley, here's a shot of Kevin and Angela and Oscar. You know, so we would we would get more more people into the main title. Randall talked about there were rules that they had was sort of dictated, you know, by Ken's original vision and by Greg that they would not shoot a shot that is impossible to get as a documentary. Like if we came up to a house and they knocked on the door, there would not be a camera inside the house shooting out because the crew wouldn't have if we've just arrived there, there would be no camera from inside, right. But more than that, if Michael is standing at his office door and we are shooting Michael, we can't play a camera directly behind Michael because we would then shoot that cameraman in reality, right, So we were bound by the traditional rules of documentary that everything was happening in the exact moment. And I remember Randall and Matt fighting directors who were wanting the cameras to be placed you on a second pass or whatever, and them saying, no, we can't be there because we would have just filmed ourselves, right. And that's and that's the thing. And it's like you have to give time, at least even in editing. You have to give time to be like, well, this camera could have moved now and then been here, you know. I remember we're arguing with Claire Scanlon who was another editor once because she was doing something. She's like, donnaa and and Greg's like, no, you can't. And there are not seven cameras in the room, so you have to choose your angles and limbs. You know. They were just I can't even remember what the exact situation was, but we were like, yeah, no, and she was like, Dave, do you do this? I said, yeah, yeah, this is what I follow wed. You know, you have to kind of do this thing. But we yeah, I mean when you watch the cameras and you watch the editing, you'll see, for the most part, we do follow these these rules and there aren't you know, these shots in typical coverage that you would see on another show. Right. Do you did you work with the DP or camera guys at all about this or was this just sort of like understood, like everything just kind of works because you both got it. Yeah, we got it. I mean we would see what they would do and be like, Okay, this is you know, and there will be some communication like they would ask, hey, how's this working or how's this and you know, the shan when we would you know, someone would say something and you know, we started doing like these slight pushions and it got fun. But sometimes I felt like the show it would go a little too much like this, and I said, oh, we're we're pushing in. We're missing I think there was something once with you where you were saying something and Angela was next to you, and Angela had a sour look. The camera pushed in so much on you, and in a few of the takes you couldn't see her, like she got framed out, and it was like you have to kind of you know, I said, let's let's be aware and and so easy on that. But for the most part, no, I mean the camera, the DP and the camera work Matt Randall Sarah. I mean, they were amazing what they would get and the footage that we would we would get in there, and you know, sometimes it was just a lot of footage and it was like, all right, how do we you know, mind through this and putting the puzzle together? How do we get from this coverage to this coverage and back? And you know, when you are shooting multiple takes, obviously you know, having characters match and what they're doing, and so it was always fun, but sometimes it was hard. It's interesting. So Claire came from reality. Claire came from reality and documentaries, documentaries, and I think she may have done I mean, I don't I think she had done some scripted. I'm not sure how much comedy. And she came Actually it was like season it was into season four she came in. Uh, Dean Holland was leaving. So I so after after season one, we got picked up for six episodes of season two, so it was just me doing that and I said, if we get picked up for more, we need to get a second editor, and so we brought in Dean Holland, who was someone who I had worked with before. So it was me and him doing the episodes after that, and then he was leaving with Mike Sure to go do Parks and Wreck, at which point I said, Okay, we need to bring in some editors, and so we brought in Stu Bass again and Claire Scanlin. And Claire just I mean, she hited out of the park right away. I mean she just got it great, great sensibility. And then season the next season it was just me and Claire like we were, we were editing together and alternating its UF and uh, yeah, she was great. She just got it. A team player too. I'd help her out with stuff, She'd helped me out. I mean just just yeah, just great. Were there things that you felt like, either with you or Dean or you and Claire you can decide or maybe it was the same or different. Were there specific strength that you had that you felt like maybe you would take over this moment of an episode, even if it was hers or vice versa. Do you remember anything like that? No? I mean I will tell you something funny about the finale, but no, there was never anything like that. I mean we would just look at each other's stuff, like she would show me her that, I'd give her some feedback or notes. I'd be like, try this, and she would look at mine and say, hey, maybe if you do this. Like it was pretty open. It was great having Claire. She did bring like a sensibility and I think just being a female, like there were things that just as a male like oh, I'm I'm missing you know this kind of component, especially with some of the relationship stuff that she had, I think a more sense of of a sense about But I'll say with the finale was interesting because I think I edited, or maybe Claire edited the first half of the show, and I edited the second half, and the first half was like more I think, more comedy stuff, and the second half was like more poignant stuff. I'm trying to remember how we and and at some point Greg watched the cut and we thought it was great. It was long and it was great, and then he's like, all right, I want you guys to switch and now I want Claire to do this half and you do this in and we were like, that's insane, that's he was brilliant. I mean, it made sense like suddenly, now I was reworking some of her scenes, she was reworking some of mine. If you remember, at the end, we had this whole thing with the plant with planty and you know, yes, Claire brought up planty. Yeah, and it was the whole thing with planting. You know, she had cut it out and Greg said, no, no, you can't. You can't lose planning. We lost planning. I mean ultimately Greg was like, yeah, like it's got to go. And that's you know, and Greg and I mean, what a brilliant screw up. Though the finale was so great, so satisfying, I think as a series ender, you know, just just everything, all the things that were hit in there. You know, everybody had their their moments. It was definitely one of those things where where he had a switch. I'd have to I'm trying to remember who did who did what, But I remember like at the end, I was instrumental with the end to some degree. I ended up shooting the building. The last shot you see of the dunder Mifflin building. I went out with my little cannon point and shoot and I shot the building. And because then we said, oh we'll do this with Pam. She takes the painting away, but at the end we go into the painting because we needed like this just nice poignant ending. I go, I got it. I got it, and we go into the painting and it dissolves into the building and that's the last shot you see. And so I shot this building. And then even Matt so own r d P said I'll shoot it also with our cameras we'll see you know, and he shot it and it looked nice too. But for some reason, like I got this lighting and or Greg just he gets used to what he sees and he's like, no, I like this one. And that was it. That was the last shot. It dissolves from the painting into this into the building. So how much after we shot the finale did you do that? It was probably a month and a half. Listen. We didn't finish the show until the morning of I mean we were at the mix till one in the morning, and at midnight, I go, hey, Greg, I just realized the end titles are going to run over the most poignant moments of the show. And he goes, fuck. Howard had a call NBC. It was midnight and we had a figure and you know, ultimately like they ran a promo or something, you know, because the week before I directed the one, the week before the ARM, the penultimate one, the titles ran underneath We had a promo for the finale, I think that came after ARM, and so the credits just ran underneath that promo. But here we are. It was like what do we you know, what do we do? Because Greg is like, we can't make it. You know, there's no tag for the first run, and we didn't think about, like we just it's just not something that would come up in your head because normally we would run it under, you know, a tag or something. But in this, the end of this, it just ends. And so we got clearance to get a promo or something fifteen seconds twenty seconds and ran the credits under that. And then in the re airs we pulled out Michael and Dwight dancing to Rosalita at the wedding and that became the tag. So it runs under that when you see it in syndication, that's where the end of credits now run. That moved to the end. I was the last guy there, so I have video footage of It's sad when they were tearing down the sets, like I was the only when they're editing, like everybody else was gone, Like Greg wasn't even there, Like I'm editing. I was doing whatever, like the syndication cuts or you know, for season nine and the DVD stuff for that. And and then I went through, I I filmed, I did a walk through of the sets. It's kind of sad, but I have this foot has no one seen it. At some point if we do another collective, you know, DVD or retrospective or something, I have this footage to offer. Wow. 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The knowledge is in death and the questions are always delivered from your standpoint. We want to know what you want to know. We talked to the legends of business, sports, and entertainment about how they got their start and most importantly, how they make their money. Earn your Leisia is a college business class mixed with pop culture. Want to learn about the real estate game, unclears, how the stock market works. We got you interested in starting a truck and company or vending machine business. Not really sure about how taxes or credit work. We got it all covered. The Earnier Leisure podcast is available now. Listen to Earnier Leisure on the Black Effect podcast Network, I Heart Radio, app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Conquer your New year's resolution to be more productive with the Before Breakfast podcast. In each bite sized daily episode, time management and productivity expert Laura vander Caam teaches you how to make the most of your time both at work and at home. These are the practical suggestions you need to get more done with your day. Just as lifting weights keeps our body strong as we age, learning new skills is the mental equivalent of pumping iron. Listen to Before Breakfast wherever you get your podcasts? So well, you've worked in multi camp shows and you know, the office not having any sort of laugh track or music underneath underscoring stuff. Did that make your job harder? I had done single camera also, did I could a show called Andy Richard Controls the Universe with their music under that there was, and I did another show called The O'Keefe. Yeah, I mean everything had had music, um, but it made it easier not to have to score things, to not have to, you know, because especially I've worked on show since like The Mindy Project and even now on on a Space Force, you know, where like we have to you spend a lot of time hunting for like temp cues and things like that before the composer comes in and does their thing. But yeah, I mean the office just never needed it, like we didn't, you know. And there were a couple of times where we slip things in because they it felt like okay, the documentarian, like at the end of dinner Party, we play Hunter's song, and uh, it's because the document you can logically say the documentarian would have taken it and played it like it's their choice. Dinner Party is one that I wanted to talk to you about. You cut that, Yeah, yeah, and that was certainly one of probably the top two episodes that utilized the cringe comedy factor more than anything else. Did you respond to that kind of episode? I? Yeah, you know, it was a different episode, and just that they're at this house and you're seeing Michael acting, you know, in a different way than he acts so much, you know, more like just an elevated way of him acting than at work. He's so happy to have everybody there, but it's also so uncomfortable, you know. Um. And I love the way he liked it. Doesn't he like trick Jim and Pam to get yes? And? Uh, yeah, I love the comedy. I had one I pitched one joke that made it in where Michael goes and looks at his TV and it's you know, it's really small and it's hanging on the wall and we were sitting I was sitting in Video Village with Gene and Lee, the writers, and I go he should say, uh man, I love this. I could just stand here and watch TV all day. And Jean like yes, and he ran out and he told Paul some people's favorite. Yeah. So I was like, and I think it made it in Like I was so happy he made it, like in one of those like Jeff's or something or one of those quotes. But that was my my quote because it was like, I he just stood there, and I was like, that's what's funny. He's like that, not that he would be sitting down relaxing that he could be I could just stand here, And it's funny because brought up that moment as one of the times he could not laugh and specifically Steve saying something like, oh and it can tilt and it moves just and just kind of bangs the walls. Just the slightest amount were wires hanging down. I mean that scene. We have tons of bloopers, like they could not keep it together that episode. They could not keep it together, but that that scene with the TV and you could just see the wires and John be like, oh, I see the you know, and you're gonna get the wires, you know, you know, Like whatever, he was just talking because it was like, it just looks so unprofessionally set up, you know, Oh my god. And I think we were on strike. The writers were on strike when that episode started. Yeah, the timeline to refresh your memory is Dinner Party was the episode that was completed before the strike, before the stow that was written and we could have shot it. And we showed up for work on that first day of shooting and I believe they got a couple of talking heads in and Steve said I'm not coming in. That was and that was it. Yeah, what do you remember about that time? I just was like, Okay, well this is that's what we do. Listen. I'm a union guy. I'm in the most picture editors guild in the d g A. So I if the writers, you know, if there's a strike, you know, I support my my brothers and sisters and the other unions. I think I marched a couple of days more and more just to see people, you know, because it was like three or four months. I was like, yeah, I was hanging out with Mindy and uh, you know, Brent and Paul and you know, just just marching. What was funny too, was like I was going to direct that season. This was season uh four, So I was going to direct that season. And I remember when we came back, Kent said, I don't know, you know what promises were made, and I said, it's okay. Let's just because they didn't know how many episodes would be left, and you know, and I was like, it's okay, we just want to get back to work. I'll direct. I'll get my first one at some point, I'm not worried. And and I got mine, you know. I season five. Early on in season five was when I got my my first episode to direct. And was that your first directing? That was my first directing? Was employee transfer of any television, of any television? Yeah? And I had you know, I had a huge Halloween you know, we had the Halloween opening. You were Batman, you were the Joker. Yeah, there were three Jokers. So I had this nice, you know, this great fun thing with the costumes, and then uh and then I had three stories. I had Jim and Pam, Pam meeting Jim's brothers for the first time. I had uh Dwight coming in wearing Cornell paraphernalia and pissing off Andy. And then I had Michael Holly and Darryl driving and you know, breaking up, and it was funny. I showed up. Was my first day of filming, I think was that and I was so I mean, I had so much anxiety that night before, and I show up and I go to crew parking and I'm on the bus with the extras. You know, we're sitting, everyone's talking, they're excited, and they're like, oh no, no no, no, no no, no no, and then like and they're like, oh, I'm like, I'm the director, and like the extras look, you know, their faces just kind of dropped. But I'm like, I'm you know, I'm because I'm a regular guy. I just I don't know they tell me. And then I get there, like oh no, you can park here. You don't have to be at base camp. You could be here at as I don't know, I get the call sheet. This was it. No one specifically told me where to park, and but it was so great. I mean, everybody was so supportive, the cast, the crew. I have, you know, have a script. Kim Ferry from Harry I think got everybody to sign a script for me. So it's got cast and crew and it it really means a lot. Yeah, what did that mean for you to be given that opportunity by Greg? Oh, I mean him at the world to be trusted. Uh listen. In season one, I had started kind of helping out Season one. He did the basketball episode was the first thing he had directed, and he's like, I want you on set with me. So I would be there and sometimes he'd be back with video village and I he's like, you yell cut when we got it, and you know, I'm nervous, but I would yell cut sometimes. And I designed a couple of the shots just discussing stuff with him or was like, hey, I think if we do that. You know, we needed like just more comedy bits, single things to cut two and then cut more back to the story. And and I remember the one bit that I did was where Michael's like, Jim, Jim, Jim, give me the ball, give me the ball, and he looks away and Jim throws it and it's like, you know, rockets past him and jim My bad. You know that that that kind of thing Um and I had. Also one of the things I had done was sometimes you know, if we were sing a shot or something, I might say, oh, we can just do you know in editing, we we would That's a different thing. Is like rewriting and saying, hey, if we just get a talking head here, we can cut all of this out time wise and just come in here. Claire talked about Yeah, one of the things I did was the episode fun Run where um Michael drives in and he hits So the first time, you know, when we got the footage originally he came in and he stopped short, and we panned to the right, you know, off him, like a quick whip pant, and you would just see Meredith laying there in the street, and it would went back and I said, Greg, you have to come see this. Like I said, it doesn't look like he hit her. It looks like he stopped short and found her just lying like as if she's passed out. And so we're talking about reshoots and stuff, and I said, I think I think we could do something where we wouldn't even need Steve, like I can use his footage. And so I have a version with our line producer Ken Sipborneck where I said, we do this and Dan Beals, who was a p A he was, he sat there on the steering wheel, he had his sleeve. We did a whip. I had Kent. We kind of threw him against the windshield and then he would he bounced off and rolled off, and then we whipped back and I edited this so I had a version with with Michael driving whipped off. You saw Kent hit the windshield, he came off, whipped back to Michael, and Michael like looking, you know, shocked, and they're like, all right, let's do it. So then I was there, you know, with the I guess second unit with UH with Kate Flannery, and I would kind of slam her, you know, slam her onto the windshield, so she would kind of fall hit the windshield and and she would fall off and land on pads. And uh, she says, because I got on the Tonight Show or one of these talks because of that, she got more popular because she got hit by Michael's car. You know, it was one of one of those things that's so so, you know, it was great to finally be given the opportunity to say, hey, I really want to direct, give me a shot. And I was happy, like everybody, the response to employee transfer was was really positive, so that was really rewarding to um what do you think it is about you and Greg's relationship that makes it work so well, and that you've continued to work on other things with him after I think, I mean, there's definitely a trust like he I think he you know, he likes what I do. He likes the speed that I'm able to do it. He knows. I'm talking to Mindy. I got dinner. Mindy and my girlfriend and I had dinner recently, and Mindy said something, she goes. Greg said this about Dave. She goes, Dave's never political when it comes to editing and making a show. Like, I'm not sitting there. I never even occurred to me to be like, oh, well, this writer wrote this joke, I'm gonna put this in, or this one did this. I mean to me, I just was doing what I thought, Hey, this is what I think is funnier. This is what I think is the best. So I think Greg appreciates that that. I'm just like Dave is just gonna do what's funniest. If it's an actor ad lib that's funnier than the scripted line, that's what's gonna Dave's gonna put in and in Greg's In fairness to Greg, Greg will go with that as well. Listen, I've unlocked shows. We had a show Lice Claire finished it with Greg and they cut out the last scene like they ended it with Meredith saying, hey, let's go get a drink. And I said, you cut out the scene of them in the bar and and Greg's like yeah, he goes, did you miss it? I go yeah, and this is like mixed, it's ready to be delivered, you know. And uh, Greg goes, all right, we'll do a version of what you want and let me look at it, you know, but try and don't have don't have this stuff because I didn't like this in that conversation at the end, I'm like, yeah, no problem, I'll take out that stuff and I'll find some trims. It's not too disruptive. In the rest of the show. It's like okay, And that was it, and I re so I changed the episode. We remixed. I mean, it was just it was, you know, we just had to do a fix. We had a picture fix in this and I remember Kate came up, was really happy. She came to the edic. She's like, oh my god, like and I was like, yeah, I missed that scene. I didn't think I think we need that scene. It's really nice. And the writer, the writer was home sick and she gets a DVD delivered and she's like, what's this The show already locked? Like what is it? Like? She didn't know that I had unlocked and relocked it. So she was so excited because this was the scene that she wanted. Also, you know, there was a staff writer and she was like, oh my god. But I think that all goes to you know, with Greg knows like I will always fight for what's best. I will work crazy hours, and you know he will always get my honest and best opinion. I'm never at a point where I'm like I don't care like that, never had I ate once in a while say that, but the truth is it's not It's not true, and I'll think about it. I'll think about edits and I will, you know, get up early in the morning to oh, I want to tweak this and fix this and how can I make this better? And you know, there are times where I've argued with him on stuff. I go, we can why would we do this? Da da da da, And He'll make a point. I'll be like, Okay, I that makes sense. Like something times I just need that or I need to know why. And there were other moments where we had some long stuff. I remember being with Jen Salata and there was a scene where Roy is being nice to Pam and he gets her out of a meeting and he helps her with her car or something, and they're walking in the parking lot and it's like, okay, we get it. And Jen wanted longer and longer and longer. And I remember being in the bag like a little shit there, you know, with Greg and I go like this, I'm sitting there in front of my own and I hold up my hand like this. He goes, what are you doing? I go, this is me at home, changing the channel, and he goes, all right, make it ten seconds. And then, you know, so like we got it. We go short because it wasn't like this is just them walking. It's like we I want to get back now to the other stuff, Like we get it. They're walking. There's enough of a moment of them. It's not like it was short. But I didn't need twenty seconds of that, you know, things like that. So there, you know, he yeah, but I think Greg appreciates it, you know, because I'm like I'm honest, Why did people respond to the Jim Pam story so much? Oh? I mean she's adorable. I mean that's your perspective, that's the that's my perspective. He's I mean, he is a super sweet guy and he's sensitive and he's funny, and you know, he's good looking. But she's adorable and and she's being treated terribly by Roy and it's like, you want something better for her, And that's it. That's what it all comes down to. I think that's it. You know that, and here's this guy that would be perfect for her and they would be happy, and you just want to see that. Yeah, I think that it a lot of it has to do also with the editing work that you guys did and the way the writers wrote the story right, you couldn't get tired of them because there would be whole episodes where nothing would happen between them, so it just naturally happened slow. Um. I felt like that gave it room to breathe and ultimately brought people into that story because not only were they dying for them to get together, they were they were dying to see more of them, and they were intentionally withheld from that. Do you think that's true? Oh yeah, yeah, I mean I think definitely that it's It was the center of the show, but off center, do you know what I mean? It wasn't it would come in and and then go, you know, back off a bit. It was I mean, that's not The show has many components, so it was like like an ensemble. It was like, here's one element of the show. Here's another element, here's another element, here's another element. So it wasn't like, hey, here's just a show about you know, two people. I mean, look, they didn't. We we played it. We timed everything nice too. I think that there was a certain pacing to their relationship. I don't know if anybody talks you about Casino Night, Yes, there was a huge discussion. They talked about the huge discussion. Yes, that's one of the things that I wanted to get into with you because I was in the room where the huge discussions. Yes, let's have let's talk about the huge discussion. Now, which scene in Casino Night is this when Jim Jim professes his love or the kiss when he professes his love is uh? Originally, like the concept was we would just see the aftermath of it. And there was a huge discussion about no, no, no, we should see you know, and and it was Greg and Ken the actors were there and stuff, and it was like, yeah, it's it's cool to do something as a documentary to be like, oh, we're just capturing the moment after. But there's something unsatisfying I think for an audience member to not see a piece of this. And uh, I think we made the right choice in letting them have a conversation Asian. And you think it's and you think that's it, Like you know, he says I'm in love with you and she's like I can't. And then you think that's you know, he's like I just don't want to be friends, you know, and that's it. And you think, okay, we're done, we're done. And then at the end, what a what an ending? I mean you talk about a cliffhang or what a what an ending that he comes in and what a great kiss too? And I mean kudos to the actors because it's you know, even in our small world on the set, like there just was a sense of pressure of like, like, here's a big moment that we're dealing with, and they just they just fucking awesome, you know, and it's such a great kiss and what he does and what she does, and you know, it's just and then that we stop and again it's a timing thing of them. It's after and they look at each other and then boom we go to black. You know I can see, oh yeah, like the timing of it. Yeah, because it's that moment of like where they look at each other after like what now, and then we go to black. And then the next season, Greg he had that opening. Man, everything gets slowly revealed. You see this aspect, this aspect and you see Pam doesn't have a ring, Jim is in the now a different location, and it's like, well, what happened? And then we find out, right, Um, did you shoot two versions of Casino Night or what did the discussion in that scenario happened beforehand? Did you cut that multiple ways? No, we just we shot at the way that ended up, and we just did version. I mean you could have edited I guess a certain way and and seen it like the aftermath, but that point the decision was yeah it was and you saw it and you were like, oh yeah, we want to see this well. And we had other discussions like that on other episodes. The proposal, I don't know if Greg this this was. I was moving right into no, no literally right now. I mean, um, so what I was told and reminded about was, yes, the proposal the great sound or no sound was it because it was written in a way, you know, the production aspects of that where we built this on a huge parking lot and we had trucks eight wheelers doing figure eight to make it look like they're passing, you know, so they have enough room like cars passing driving by, and uh, Jim and Pam, you know, the original concept was like that we couldn't hear them. We would just see it, and then we had a version where you would hear it, and ultimately, uh, Greg went with the version where you can't hear them, and then he changed his mind that morning that we were wearing He's like, no, I've slept on it, and I want to put the one where they can hear them the morning that we're airing. Yeah, so then it was like I think I think it was like that morning He's like, okay, so we we did the one where there you can hear them, and I think listen, I think both of them were great versions, but I think it's probably better to to hear. I mean, we waited so long for this moment, it was probably better to uh, better to hear and not just see it, because you didn't want any kind of confusion of like what happened. You know. I think that ultimately we made the right choice. But I'll tell you this is they didn't destroy the one with the no sound. And when it was time to make the DVDs, they almost screwed up and had that one and and Jake Aust was our a P at the time, and he was like, wait a minute, you know, like that almost got burned onto DVDs they were doing QC and uh He's like, I mean, some some heads rolled because it was like this needs to be labeled and not you know, either not here anywhere where it would get mixed in. You know. You know, I've had a number of people talk to me about that moment, and I will say to you, I remember very very specifically the way that looked. I remember him going down, I remember the rain, I remember the eighteen wheelers going by right, and that's such a spy shot. I don't remember what he said, Yeah, you know what I mean? Like how it was. It's almost irrelevant which choice, because like she's like, what are you doing? He says, I can't wait anymore. And it's not I mean, it's not about like the dialogue being like that sharp, but it is having that help of that audio que and and again there's plenty of other sound going on. It's not like, hey, this is as clear as day, but it was just at least you could could But I understand what you're saying. Yeah, um, talk to me a little bit while we're on the subject of sound about Company Picnic and the decision to cut the sound when you find out that Pam is pregnant. Okay, yeah, so that was That was the episode where I made my office acting ray bands guy, um um, I believe it's guy wearing ray bands. Yeah. Uh. And it's funny. I have friends and anytime it shows up. And I have friends now whose kids watched the show and they're like, that's Dave. You know they see me on there with My one line was that your acting was my acting debut on across any platform. That was your acting debut. Oh no, no, no, I have acted before, I have shown up. It's funny. I mean a Gilmore Girls episode and uh, I have one line. I go, sure, but it was such that sounds like a word, not an that's a line of work. A matter of fact, as when I edited that for my own acting reel, it was so short. I had to add like to still frames at the end because I'm on, you know, it's a Guilmard Girls. They cut it so tight, and I'm like, but uh, but I remember it was such an all star day for me, like just being on the set as an actor because I was an assistant editor. I had taken acting classes to become better as a director, so and then I was going out. I did I did voice work. I'm on a cartoon. I did like thirty four episodes of an animation show called the Shinzo, which is a Japanese anime show, and speak Japanese. I didn't speak Japanese. This was like the English every American version. You're really good at the American version shows. Yeah, so uh but uh, but I would say this. So the Gilder Girls, like Melissa McCarthy was there. Lauren Graham is in the scene and I think she was dating Matthew Perry at the time, so he was there. It was on the Warner Brothers lot and he was there like just joking around. He did the slate a couple of times, so it was like really an really a fun day. But I have one one word. I go, sure, sure, why did they not hire me? Alright? So sorry company, Picnic Company Picnic the decision to not use sound there when she you find out she's pregnant, Yeah, you have to have sound. I don't think you really know what happens if there's no mention in Paul. I think it was like, no, I don't think you needed at all. There was one version where it wasn't in, and I was like, if we don't have that, like no one pays attention to it, but it's in the back of your mind, like we need to have some little crumb. But uh, I think they're acting. Just played it like you knew right away from their acting what what had happened. And they never go back. You know, it's such a sweet moment. Pam is like nodding, and Jim is like, you know, oh my god. He gives her a big hug and uh, and I think it's this joyous surprise for the audience and they never go back to the game. They never go back to the volleyball game or anything. I'm Emilia on this podcast. I'm taking you on a search, a search for love. Hard working Latina seeks cool, down to earth guy slip. It's hard out there for a girl to find Mr Right. I have to meet a lot of Mr Wrongs. He'd invite me over to have dinner with his family. I knew he didn't tell them that it was transgender. Dating as a trans woman can be complicated, but there were other reasons. I felt like I couldn't always be myself, and he's asking me things about my family, like my mom's in prison and my grandmother was arrested for working with the Mexican drug cartel. This scrumbs my love story. It's to show about the things we set up for and the bits of ourselves that make us who we are. Listen to Crumbs as part of the Michael la podcast Network, available on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi. I'm Glory Adam, host of Well Read Black Girl. Each week, I sit in close conversation with one of my favorite authors of color and share stories about how they found their voice. Hone their craft and navigated the publishing world, and composed some of the most beautiful and meaningful words I've ever read. We journey together through the cultural moment where art, culture and literature collide, and pay homage to the women whose books we grew up reading. And of course I check in with members of the Well Read Black Girl book Club. It's a literary kickback you never knew you needed, and you're all invited to join the club. So tell your friends, tell their friends so we can be friends who love books. Listen to Well Read Black Girl on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Adoption of teams from foster care is a topic not enough people know about, and we're here to change that. I'm April Dinnuity, host of the new podcast Navigating Adoption, presented by adopt Us Kids. Each episode brings you compelling, real life adoption stories told by the families that lived them, with commentary from experts. Visit adopt us Kids dot org, slash podcast, or subscribe to Navigating Adoption presented by adopt us It's brought to you by the U. S Department of Health that Human service as Administration for Children and Families and the Act Council. Do you have a favorite episode? Um, I have a few favorites, and there's some that I haven't cut. I love Employee Transfer because it was my first. I love ARM because it was my last, and I had so many great things to do in there. I had. I have Darryl dancing with everybody. Jim plays this video for Pam and uh, you know, it was so sweet. I'm the voice of the documentarian, you know, things like that, and uh, Dwight gets to propose to Angela and he cuts her off and and you know there's all this stuff with the with the kids. So I mean, I love I love that episode. But uh, I love the finale. The finale is one of my favorites. I love the negotiation. I just think like that, you know, it is an episode. Mike Sure wrote that one, And that to me is like an like you could show that in a screenwriting class and be like, look at this, Like it starts out here and then there's a twist, and it goes here, and then there's a twist and again, you know, and it's just so funny, like he and it's just the basic premises Michael wears he buys a woman's suit and doesn't realize it and where that ends up going. You know, Um, I love Booze Cruise and I didn't edit Booze Cruise. I I love Michael dancing that he does a motivation dance, and I love that as we call it, like the seconds of silence, seconds of silence outside with Jim and Pam. Well, even you talking before about that specific moment of the end of Casino Night. I think my overwhelming memory of you is you're an incredible artist and really know your job, but you are also so excited. I mean to say that you are fan. I mean I call myself a fan of the show, right like I was. I thought The Office was an excellent show. I'm a fan of that show regardless of the fact I worked on it. And I felt like for you, you were the same way. Like you were excited by a great moment that the actors gave, Like you were excited about something that cameras did that looked cool that you were able to put together and yeah, that that spirit was pretty awesome. Well, it's funny we had we had this environment and post because we would see things we had a whole different, you know, like people quote the show, right, but we would quote stuff, and you guys, by the time we would get to set like three days later and be like, oh my god, this is so funny. You guys don't even know what we're talking about because at that point you've had like seven other pages of dialogue to memorize and things like that, you know. So it was like I'd be like, going, oh my god, what Steve is And I find myself like there are mannerisms that I do, Like there are things that people will say to Michael Scott and be like and you know, likes and and I say that I do that. Even yesterday I said something to Greg and I'm like, I'm doing Steve Carrell. Like there was something where I was like, you know, like like doing these things. But I remember I used to call everybody by their character name, or at least the one like the writers like Mindy. I'm sure you know people call you Kevin because they, you know, just out of like Kevin. But I used to like deliberately, like I got into this mindset where I had nicknames for Paul, Like I would call him tob larone. Like things that Michael Scott didn't even call him. I would call make up nicknames for Toby and uh, you know, I mean I was just a huge fan of all you guys. I mean just I just I yeah, I love the show, and I was so glad to be working on stuff from season one, just these dark endings. Like people some people, you know, they say, oh, they didn't like season one, or they like it later once they see where season two and three are, they can go back and they appreciate it more. I loved it out of the gate. I was like, oh my god, this like it's a it coom that doesn't end on it. It's not tied up in a bow at the end of the episode, and like they all hate Michael at the end of the healthcare I mean Greg's favorite moment, you know, was I still have my vagina. Remember you know, a vagint is different from a uterus. I still have my vagina. I mean I remember, I remember for the rap party, the hundred yeah we have. But we had the rap party, and so you know, we would make the gag rail and we show you know, we would put bloopers and we would show the crew. And then I did something different. I said, oh, I'm going to do a highlights of a hundred and I did, and we did account for like episode one here just a quick line, just a quick thing to identify, and we got all the casts, like everybody had a had a moment. But it was like finding what is this kind of you know, something that just says, here's a line from here, Here's a line from here, Here's a moment from here, here's you know, Michael hitting Meredith with the car, here's uh, you know, I mean, just these little things, and it was it's so and it's on the DVD. I mean, it's just great to see like just this thing. And I remember everybody like just getting excited in lighting up, but like just at this kind of thing and what we had done, you know. Yeah, so it's crazy. So you won two Emmy's. I won two Emmy's on the Office for the job and for the finale. Yeah, I co won those with Dean Holland and I for the job in Claire Scanlon for the finale, Yeah, and to ACE American Cinema Editor Awards as well. Um, you were the most honored department on the show, right, No actress one, two writers won you know the show one once. It's just interesting to me, you know. Well, especially what was really rewarding was the finale to be reward you know, because we had we were not the fresh new show at that point, so it was really rewarding to to win the finale. And like I said, we won the Emmy and the American Cinema Editor Award in case Eddie for that um but but especially you know, with the Emmy, I just think it was our peers. You know, you know, you have editors, and so it's editors voting on editors. So I think there's they recognized what you were doing. I think they recognize it. And I think, listen, there's so much of it is like, oh what what is kind of hot and popular? You could be the best editor in the world. If you're not working on, you know, a show that has all these pieces that isn't in the zeitgeist to show, you know, you're not going to get that recognition, you know. And so with with The Office, though, here was something that we were doing that was fresh and new and such a great script. And look, we lied to everybody too about Steve, and I remember Greg felt really bad about lying to people because he was lying to family and friends, and I was like, I remember writing something. I said, Greg, I said, listen, in today's day and age, everything gets spoiled. It's not like it used to be that you could have this surprise. I said. So, this is what we're doing, is we're giving people something. Because we even had hit the footage of Steve Trance for we didn't have it done at Universal. We had it done secretly somewhere else. Did you know he was showing up to set that day? I knew that he was showing up, I think a day or two before. Somebody spilled the beans to me. But I've talked to a number of people who didn't know until the assistant directors said Stevens in the makeup trailer. There were some people who did not know until until then. I'm so curious as to who from the cast didn't know that day because I knew. I mean because I came to set that day because I knew, Hey, he's coming at this time. So Claire and I went to set, so Steve agrees to come. It's a big secret. It's kept from the network. And so even after he shot his scenes, you took it somewhere else. So we get the footage transferred, like we get the video is transferred and you know, it's it's basically it's taken on digitally and then it's put into the Abbot's It's like in files that are put into the Abbots. And normally we do all our stuff at Universal on the Universal lot was where we would transfer, and that's where we would we did not. We took his scenes and we got them transferred somewhere else. And what you made them sign like non disclosure or they were friends or something or yeah, yeah, little Timmy's basement, Like what do you actually it was Eric Culjin who was our ap. His father worked at another level. It was level three. I mean they do big shows and stuff like that. So we took it there and we had a transferred there like in a room where it was like okay, this is where it's gonna be transfer. Like we just didn't want We didn't want NBC execs to have access to the dailies, because they can there's a way I think where they can access you know, the footage, they can look at dailies and things like that. We didn't want that because we didn't want them ultimately to promo Steve Carrell returns because Steve didn't want that, and there was also as a surprise. It's like there's just enough footage of him as a surprise that you're like blown away. My mom cringes it at Michael Scott like she you know, so much of the time, like she would cringe. But man, she watched that finale moment. She would rewind and watch him showing up, you know, that reveal fifty times. She's like, David, I can't stop watching it, you know. I mean, it's just such a great moment with the reveal. It's like I can't be your best man, but you know. And and so we were secretive about it, and and Greg I remember Gregg felt bad about lying and I was explaining to him about spoilers. I'm like, this is not harming anyone. And it's like a surprise party if someone asked, like are you throwing me a surprise party? And you say no, and the two hours later surprise, Like that's what this is. And Greg I remember he said he felt better, he felt better about that, you know about it. It It was like, I know it's hard, but that's what it is. Like we're we're you know, we have to keep it a secret. And if everybody keeps it a secret, it's a secret. Like that's we're all in it together. Because even you know, I remember, you know Ken kopp Is like the day before was like, no, Steve's not in it. He you know, he decided that he ended, he had his exit and all this and it's like, yeah, we're just flying. It's a white, little white lie like that's it and and it all comes out right. Um, how how did you working on the Office change your life? God? Well, it just was like being you know, like I said, I had worked on Seinfeld, but I was a small part of that show, and it was it was very late. I joined late. I was not instrumental in making that show anything. I just I was lucky to be a part of it. But being part of the Office was like you know, coming in right after the pilot and getting to you know, tweak the pilot a little bit, but you know, just just coming in though from diversity day and and being instrumental in like helping shape the show, really being part of the creative process. I didn't write you know, scripts or anything like that, but Greg would always listen, like if you have pitches if you have any ideas, and sometimes you know, hey this would get in. That would that would get in, you know, and sometimes like I said, I'd rewrite a jew oak in the edit bay and we would okay, we'll go shoot it. Or I would right even the bones, and then I said, have the writers, you know, have them just make it better, like right right, a Sharper joke and stuff like that. Um and yeah, So I mean it changed my life, like just being a part of that show. And and obviously I mean it's nice like to be on something that's popular and people like, oh you work on the office, like you know, like it's still to this day people are always you know, surprised and throw. I mean, I went, I was wearing a jacket under Mifflin Saver one of the season, you know, jackets wrap jackets, and I was getting coffee and uh, the brist was like, I love your jacket. What you gonna say? I worked on the show. Oh my god, I love this show. Please tell every you know. I mean like still to this day, people, uh, people are you know more and more actually I should say, you know as as do you feel too, because like I said, there's another there's a whole generation of of people with their kids. I get Facebook messages all the times where they're like, just when my kids are watching the show, they love it. They've binged it three times. You know. Even my god son I got he wanted for Christmas a dunder Mifflin hoodie. I had to buy one from NBC dot com. Do I have anything anymore? I'm like all my swag and autograph stuff. You know, he's watched the episodes, he sees me. He hears my voice as the documentary, and he sees my name in the credits, and we talked stuff. And people are always asking me about trivia. And I'm pretty good my memories. Like I said, I'm I slip a little bit with with people's names. And I don't know if that's just age or if like the hard driver is full and overloaded. I've got one, I've got I've got one for you. This is fun. So people they'll come up. You are pretty good with trivia. In fact, we all call you the encyclopedia. I have one question. This is my one, all right, all right? I was told a while ago it is a name one though, so I'm trying careful. Um, This was like the finals of some trivia thing someone won. They told me the question. I've just decided I'm adopting this question. When someone says they know trivia and I asked him this question. Okay, you ready, this is for one billion dollars. What is Gabe Lewis's middle name? Beverley? That was like the right spirit you Now, I think the Leslie David Baker. I've had a lot of people say Leslie. I'm trying to think. Is Susan Susan Susan Gabriel Susan Lewis's there? You go have you? But thank you for playing was really really entertaining. Um, dude, thank you so much for coming in. You're you're the encyclopedia and your knowledge and your passion for the show. You know, I think the show in a lot of ways, what made it special was how much people cared. It wasn't about ego. It was truly about making the best show that we could. Yeah, what can you say? I mean, Yeah, the show has changed my life in so many ways, and it's just you know, I love being a part of it. I still love being a part of it, and uh, I just love that we we have this, this bond because of it. Yeah, all right, thank you Dave. What can I say? I could just stand here and listen to you on a podcast all day. Thank you so much for coming by. It was so great to see you and to well to hear from you, and to all of you out there, Thank you for listening to another episode of the Office Deep Dive. I hope you have the best week possible and to cap off that amazing week, you can come back next Tuesday to hear part two of my conversation with our wonderful writer Jen Salanta. The Office Deep Dive is hosted and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer Lang Lee. Our senior producer is Tessa Kramer. Our producers are Diego Tapia and Liz Hayes. My main man in the booth is Alec Moore. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by my great friend Cree Bratton, and the episode was mixed by seth Olandskip Hey Dana Goodyear here. 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