Today’s guest is Jess Rowlings. Jess is the CEO and co-founder of Next Level Collaboration, as well as a qualified speech and language therapist. She also works as a researcher at the Melbourne Graduate School of Education, and previously Murdoch Children’s Research Institute. Jess is an adult diagnosed AuDHDer and has a lifelong love of games, both of which inform her work and research. As a researcher, she is passionate about the use of digital games-based learning to promote inclusion and a sense of belonging, and her work has included developing and running a dedicated Minecraft server to support neurodivergent girls and women.



Monique and Jess cover:
Jess’ path to identifying her own neurodivergence.
Her research on gaming and neurodivergence.
How gaming can support both sides of the AuDHD brain, what it can tell us about a person’s problem-solving style, and how it can promote collaborative problem-solving skills.
Jess’ relationship to gaming throughout her life, and the purpose gaming has served for her.
Gender in gaming, including the popularity of gaming amongst adult women, blocks to gaming accessibility for girls, women, and AFAB folk, and Jess’ suggestions around what parents and adult gamers can do to have safer and more accessible gaming spaces.
The huge variety of experiences and play options that come under the ‘gaming’ umbrella and how this has evolved over time.
Discussion on the potential negative effects of gaming, including recognising active vs. passive screen time, the balance of gaming with other life activities, and what parents and adult gamers can do to support healthy gaming activity.
The importance of taking kids’ interest and strength in gaming seriously.
The many benefits of gaming for neurodivergent folk.





You can find Jess on LinkedIn or Twitter @JessRowlings, or through Next Level Collaboration. Jess has also co-written a book with Matthew Harrison - Press B to Belong – on creating inclusive Esports programs for school communities.



This episode with Jess is kicking off a little mini-series we have planned for you on neurodivergent joy; next week we’ll be talking about special interests and creative expression, followed by self-care and self-nurturance. We hope you enjoy!



Want polished copies of our episodes in beautiful and readable pdf article format? Grab them here. 



Enjoyed the episode and want to support us further? Join our Patreon community! Patreon subscribers receive basic episode transcripts from Season 4 onwards, access to a monthly live zoom hang out, 50% off our episode articles, plus bonus monthly content (depending on subscription tier). Check out our Patreon page to support us, as we aim to make quality mental health care information accessible to everyone: www.patreon.com/ndwomanpod.



Contact us at ndwomanpod@gmail.com, or visit our website: www.ndwomanpod.com

Today’s guest is Jess Rowlings. Jess is the CEO and co-founder of Next Level Collaboration, as well as a qualified speech and language therapist. She also works as a researcher at the Melbourne Graduate School of Education, and previously Murdoch Children’s Research Institute. Jess is an adult diagnosed AuDHDer and has a lifelong love of games, both of which inform her work and research. As a researcher, she is passionate about the use of digital games-based learning to promote inclusion and a sense of belonging, and her work has included developing and running a dedicated Minecraft server to support neurodivergent girls and women.
 
Monique and Jess cover:
<ol>
<li>Jess’ path to identifying her own neurodivergence.</li>
<li>Her research on gaming and neurodivergence.</li>
<li>How gaming can support both sides of the AuDHD brain, what it can tell us about a person’s problem-solving style, and how it can promote collaborative problem-solving skills.</li>
<li>Jess’ relationship to gaming throughout her life, and the purpose gaming has served for her.</li>
<li>Gender in gaming, including the popularity of gaming amongst adult women, blocks to gaming accessibility for girls, women, and AFAB folk, and Jess’ suggestions around what parents and adult gamers can do to have safer and more accessible gaming spaces.</li>
<li>The huge variety of experiences and play options that come under the ‘gaming’ umbrella and how this has evolved over time.</li>
<li>Discussion on the potential negative effects of gaming, including recognising active vs. passive screen time, the balance of gaming with other life activities, and what parents and adult gamers can do to support healthy gaming activity.</li>
<li>The importance of taking kids’ interest and strength in gaming seriously.</li>
<li>The many benefits of gaming for neurodivergent folk.</li>
</ol>
 
 
You can find Jess on LinkedIn or Twitter @JessRowlings, or through <a href="https://nextlevelcollaboration.com/">Next Level Collaboration</a>. Jess has also co-written a book with Matthew Harrison - <a href="https://bookstore.emerald.com/press-b-to-belong-hb-9781804559277.html">Press B to Belong</a> – on creating inclusive Esports programs for school communities.
 
This episode with Jess is kicking off a little mini-series we have planned for you on neurodivergent joy; next week we’ll be talking about special interests and creative expression, followed by self-care and self-nurturance. We hope you enjoy!
 
Want polished copies of our episodes in beautiful and readable pdf article format? Grab them <a href="https://www.ndwomanpod.com/transcripts">here</a>. 
 
Enjoyed the episode and want to support us further? Join our Patreon community! Patreon subscribers receive basic episode transcripts from Season 4 onwards, access to a monthly live zoom hang out, 50% off our episode articles, plus bonus monthly content (depending on subscription tier). Check out our Patreon page to support us, as we aim to make quality mental health care information accessible to everyone: <a href="http://www.patreon.com/ndwomanpod">www.patreon.com/ndwomanpod.</a>
 
Contact us at <a href="mailto:ndwomanpod@gmail.com">ndwomanpod@gmail.com</a>, or visit our website: <a href="http://www.ndwomanpod.com">www.ndwomanpod.com</a>

A podcast for neurodivergent women, hosted by clinical psychologist Monique Mitchelson and clinical neuropsychologist Michelle Livock. Covering Autism to ADHD and everything in between, we aim to educate and inspire women who think differently.

The Neurodivergent Woman

Gaming with Jess Rowlings

This week Monique interviews Professor Sandra Thom-Jones about aging as an autistic person. Sandra is an autistic author, artisan, academic, and advocate. She provides consultancy services to education, employment, and healthcare providers, and supports for autistic people, through her consultancy ‘Autistic Professor’. Sandra is the author of Growing in to Autism, and she has undertaken numerous research projects­ in partnership with the autistic community on the experiences of autistic people and the knowledge and attitudes towards autism in the community; including research that won the Autism CRC’s 2019 and 2021 awards for research translation and the 2022 award for inclusive research. 



Monique and Sandra cover:
Sandra’s experience of her neurodivergence throughout her life and her path to identifying her autistic neurotype.
Why do older autistic adults tend to be ‘invisible’ to society at large, and what factors contribute to the support needs of this population?
Generational trends in the understanding of and meaning associated with an autism diagnosis, and the implications for disclosure and self-advocacy.
The unique needs of autistic folk when navigating later stages of life like menopause, increasing healthcare needs, aged care, retirement, and managing family changes and transitions.
The importance of discarding neuro-normative expectations about what aging or retirement ‘should’ look like, and Sandra’s tips for a joyful retirement as an autistic person.



You can find more of Sandra’s work through her website – www.autisticprofessor.com – or follow her on Facebook (@autisticprofessor) or Instagram (@sandrathomjones_au_author).



Get a copy of Sandra’s book, Growing in to Autism, and pre-order her upcoming book, Autistics in Academia, through Cambridge University Press.



Follow Sandra on socials to stay updated on her next book, on the experiences of autistic people in the workplace!



Want polished copies of our episodes in beautiful and readable pdf article format? Grab them here. 



Enjoyed the episode and want to support us further? Join our Patreon community! Patreon subscribers receive basic episode transcripts from Season 4 onwards, access to a monthly live zoom hang out, 50% off our episode articles, plus bonus monthly content (depending on subscription tier). Check out our Patreon page to support us, as we aim to make quality mental health care information accessible to everyone: www.patreon.com/ndwomanpod.



Contact us at ndwomanpod@gmail.com, or visit our website: www.ndwomanpod.com

This week Monique interviews Professor Sandra Thom-Jones about aging as an autistic person. Sandra is an autistic author, artisan, academic, and advocate. She provides consultancy services to education, employment, and healthcare providers, and supports for autistic people, through her consultancy ‘Autistic Professor’. Sandra is the author of Growing in to Autism, and she has undertaken numerous research projects­ in partnership with the autistic community on the experiences of autistic people and the knowledge and attitudes towards autism in the community; including research that won the Autism CRC’s 2019 and 2021 awards for research translation and the 2022 award for inclusive research. 
 
Monique and Sandra cover:
<ul>
<li>Sandra’s experience of her neurodivergence throughout her life and her path to identifying her autistic neurotype.</li>
<li>Why do older autistic adults tend to be ‘invisible’ to society at large, and what factors contribute to the support needs of this population?</li>
<li>Generational trends in the understanding of and meaning associated with an autism diagnosis, and the implications for disclosure and self-advocacy.</li>
<li>The unique needs of autistic folk when navigating later stages of life like menopause, increasing healthcare needs, aged care, retirement, and managing family changes and transitions.</li>
<li>The importance of discarding neuro-normative expectations about what aging or retirement ‘should’ look like, and Sandra’s tips for a joyful retirement as an autistic person.</li>
</ul>
 
You can find more of Sandra’s work through her website – <a href="http://www.autisticprofessor.com">www.autisticprofessor.com</a> – or follow her on Facebook (@autisticprofessor) or Instagram (@sandrathomjones_au_author).
 
Get a copy of Sandra’s book, <a href="https://www.autisticprofessor.com/growingintoautism">Growing in to Autism</a>, and pre-order her upcoming book, <a href="https://www.cambridge.org/au/universitypress/subjects/psychology/cognition/autistics-academia-narratives-work-adversity-and-achievement-around-world?format=HB&amp;isbn=9781009374064">Autistics in Academia, through Cambridge University Press</a>.
 
Follow Sandra on socials to stay updated on her next book, on the experiences of autistic people in the workplace!
 
Want polished copies of our episodes in beautiful and readable pdf article format? Grab them <a href="https://www.ndwomanpod.com/transcripts">here</a>. 
 
Enjoyed the episode and want to support us further? Join our Patreon community! Patreon subscribers receive basic episode transcripts from Season 4 onwards, access to a monthly live zoom hang out, 50% off our episode articles, plus bonus monthly content (depending on subscription tier). Check out our Patreon page to support us, as we aim to make quality mental health care information accessible to everyone: <a href="http://www.patreon.com/ndwomanpod">www.patreon.com/ndwomanpod.</a>
 
Contact us at <a href="mailto:ndwomanpod@gmail.com">ndwomanpod@gmail.com</a>, or visit our website: <a href="http://www.ndwomanpod.com">www.ndwomanpod.com</a>

Aging as an Autistic Person with Prof. Sandra Thom-Jones

Content warning: This episode discusses grooming and sexual assault. Some listeners may decide to skip this one.



This week Monique interviews fellow psychologist Anna Clarke on grooming. As a multiply neurodivergent psychologist, EMDR therapist, and play therapist, Anna is passionate about supporting care teams with a trauma-informed, neurodivergent-affirming lens, and they are experienced in working with survivors of sexual assault and family violence.



On this episode Monique and Anna unpack this incredibly important topic, including what makes grooming such an insidious, ‘hard to pin down’ practice. Monique and Anna cover:


Anna’s understanding of neurodivergence, their path to discovering their own neurodivergence, and what late identification has meant for them.
What is grooming?
What kinds of relationships have the potential for grooming behaviour?
The distinct phases of grooming.
The factors that increase the likelihood of disabled, neurodivergent, and / or previously traumatised folk being targeted for grooming.
What effect does grooming have on the individual and on their broader support network?
Other forms of manipulation like love bombing and gaslighting.
Signs to look out for – both in the perpetrator and the person being groomed.
Ways that parents and the broader community can protect vulnerable people from grooming.
Anna’s advice for those who have experienced grooming or who suspect they may be experiencing this.



Find out more about Anna’s work on this topic and sign up for their upcoming Grooming Webinar (with all profits being donated to support services for survivors of sexual assault) through Divergent Futures. 



Here are some resources we’d recommend:
Blue Knot Foundation. Call 1300 657 380 or email helpline@blueknot.org.au - Supporting adult survivors of childhood trauma and adult survivors of institutional child sexual abuse around the National Redress Scheme. Also has resources for supporters of survivors.
Check out the National Resource on grooming. This page has all the National information for Australia on grooming, and on reporting grooming or abuse.
State based victim support reporting and links. 
Autistic Guide to Healthy Relationships.



Want polished copies of our episodes in beautiful and readable pdf article format? Grab them here. 



Enjoyed the episode and want to support us further? Join our Patreon community! Patreon subscribers receive basic episode transcripts from Season 4 onwards, access to a monthly live zoom hang out, 50% off our episode articles, plus bonus monthly content (depending on subscription tier). Check out our Patreon page to support us, as we aim to make quality mental health care information accessible to everyone: www.patreon.com/ndwomanpod.



Contact us at ndwomanpod@gmail.com, or visit our website: www.ndwomanpod.com

Content warning: This episode discusses grooming and sexual assault. Some listeners may decide to skip this one.
 
This week Monique interviews fellow psychologist Anna Clarke on grooming. As a multiply neurodivergent psychologist, EMDR therapist, and play therapist, Anna is passionate about supporting care teams with a trauma-informed, neurodivergent-affirming lens, and they are experienced in working with survivors of sexual assault and family violence.
 
On this episode Monique and Anna unpack this incredibly important topic, including what makes grooming such an insidious, ‘hard to pin down’ practice. Monique and Anna cover:
 
<ul>
<li>Anna’s understanding of neurodivergence, their path to discovering their own neurodivergence, and what late identification has meant for them.</li>
<li>What is grooming?</li>
<li>What kinds of relationships have the potential for grooming behaviour?</li>
<li>The distinct phases of grooming.</li>
<li>The factors that increase the likelihood of disabled, neurodivergent, and / or previously traumatised folk being targeted for grooming.</li>
<li>What effect does grooming have on the individual and on their broader support network?</li>
<li>Other forms of manipulation like love bombing and gaslighting.</li>
<li>Signs to look out for – both in the perpetrator and the person being groomed.</li>
<li>Ways that parents and the broader community can protect vulnerable people from grooming.</li>
<li>Anna’s advice for those who have experienced grooming or who suspect they may be experiencing this.</li>
</ul>
 
Find out more about Anna’s work on this topic and sign up for their upcoming Grooming Webinar (with all profits being donated to support services for survivors of sexual assault) through <a href="https://www.divergentfutures.com/">Divergent Futures</a>. 
 
Here are some resources we’d recommend:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://blueknot.org.au/">Blue Knot Foundation</a>. Call 1300 657 380 or email <a href="mailto:helpline@blueknot.org.au">helpline@blueknot.org.au</a> - Supporting adult survivors of childhood trauma and adult survivors of institutional child sexual abuse around the National Redress Scheme. Also has resources for supporters of survivors.</li>
<li>Check out the <a href="https://www.childsafety.gov.au/about-child-sexual-abuse/grooming#:~:text=If%20you%20suspect%20a%20child,Centre%20to%20Counter%20Child%20Exploitation%20.">National Resource on grooming</a>. This page has all the National information for Australia on grooming, and on reporting grooming or abuse.</li>
<li><a href="https://knowmore.org.au/for-survivors/compensation-options/victims-support/">State based victim support reporting and links</a>. </li>
<li><a href="https://www.durham.ac.uk/news-events/latest-news/2024/04/autistic-guide-to-healthy-relationships/">Autistic Guide to Healthy Relationships</a>.</li>
</ul>
 
Want polished copies of our episodes in beautiful and readable pdf article format? Grab them <a href="https://www.ndwomanpod.com/transcripts">here</a>. 
 
Enjoyed the episode and want to support us further? Join our Patreon community! Patreon subscribers receive basic episode transcripts from Season 4 onwards, access to a monthly live zoom hang out, 50% off our episode articles, plus bonus monthly content (depending on subscription tier). Check out our Patreon page to support us, as we aim to make quality mental health care information accessible to everyone: <a href="http://www.patreon.com/ndwomanpod">www.patreon.com/ndwomanpod.</a>
 
Contact us at <a href="mailto:ndwomanpod@gmail.com">ndwomanpod@gmail.com</a>, or visit our website: <a href="http://www.ndwomanpod.com">www.ndwomanpod.com</a>

Grooming with Anna Clarke

This week we speak with Penny Moodie about Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD). Penny is a writer, OCD advocate, and mum of three little people. She is the author of ‘The Joy Thief: How OCD steals your happiness – and how to get it back’ and the co-creator the website soocd.com.au, which is packed with information on OCD and how to get support.



In this episode Penny very generously shares her personal experience with OCD, and she takes us through the ‘why’ of OCD and the strategies and treatment approaches she has found helpful.



We cover:
What is OCD, and crucially, what isn’t OCD?
Some of the key mechanisms of OCD, including thought-action fusion, uncertainty anxiety, the ‘just right’ feeling, and the feedback loop between obsessions and compulsions.
Periods of OCD onset.
Talking to kids about their thoughts.
Penny’s personal experience of OCD throughout her life, including in childhood, her adolescence, and throughout her adulthood, and her path to accurate diagnosis.
OCD in the perinatal period.
Treatment approaches for OCD and strategies that Penny has found useful, including ERP, methods to reframe and manage distressing thoughts, medication, self-compassion practice, and connecting with other people experiencing OCD.



You can find Penny on Instagram @pennymoodie and through her website, So OCD. Get a copy of Penny’s book, The Joy Thief, here.



The book Penny mentioned was The Man Who Couldn’t stop, by David Adam.



Want polished copies of our episodes in beautiful and readable pdf article format? Grab them here. 



Enjoyed the episode and want to support us further? Join our Patreon community! Patreon subscribers receive basic episode transcripts from Season 4 onwards, access to a monthly live zoom hang out, 50% off our episode articles, plus bonus monthly content (depending on subscription tier). Check out our Patreon page to support us, as we aim to make quality mental health care information accessible to everyone: www.patreon.com/ndwomanpod.



Contact us at ndwomanpod@gmail.com, or visit our website: www.ndwomanpod.com

This week we speak with Penny Moodie about Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD). Penny is a writer, OCD advocate, and mum of three little people. She is the author of ‘<a href="https://www.allenandunwin.com/browse/book/Penny-Moodie-Joy-Thief-9781761068669/">The Joy Thief: How OCD steals your happiness – and how to get it back</a>’ and the co-creator the website <a href="https://soocd.com.au/">soocd.com.au</a>, which is packed with information on OCD and how to get support.
 
In this episode Penny very generously shares her personal experience with OCD, and she takes us through the ‘why’ of OCD and the strategies and treatment approaches she has found helpful.
 
We cover:
<ul>
<li>What is OCD, and crucially, what isn’t OCD?</li>
<li>Some of the key mechanisms of OCD, including thought-action fusion, uncertainty anxiety, the ‘just right’ feeling, and the feedback loop between obsessions and compulsions.</li>
<li>Periods of OCD onset.</li>
<li>Talking to kids about their thoughts.</li>
<li>Penny’s personal experience of OCD throughout her life, including in childhood, her adolescence, and throughout her adulthood, and her path to accurate diagnosis.</li>
<li>OCD in the perinatal period.</li>
<li>Treatment approaches for OCD and strategies that Penny has found useful, including ERP, methods to reframe and manage distressing thoughts, medication, self-compassion practice, and connecting with other people experiencing OCD.</li>
</ul>
 
You can find Penny on Instagram @pennymoodie and through her website, <a href="https://soocd.com.au/">So OCD</a>. <a href="https://www.allenandunwin.com/browse/book/Penny-Moodie-Joy-Thief-9781761068669/">Get a copy of Penny’s book, The Joy Thief, here</a>.
 
The book Penny mentioned was The Man Who Couldn’t stop, by David Adam.
 
Want polished copies of our episodes in beautiful and readable pdf article format? Grab them <a href="https://www.ndwomanpod.com/transcripts">here</a>. 
 
Enjoyed the episode and want to support us further? Join our Patreon community! Patreon subscribers receive basic episode transcripts from Season 4 onwards, access to a monthly live zoom hang out, 50% off our episode articles, plus bonus monthly content (depending on subscription tier). Check out our Patreon page to support us, as we aim to make quality mental health care information accessible to everyone: <a href="http://www.patreon.com/ndwomanpod">www.patreon.com/ndwomanpod.</a>
 
Contact us at <a href="mailto:ndwomanpod@gmail.com">ndwomanpod@gmail.com</a>, or visit our website: <a href="http://www.ndwomanpod.com">www.ndwomanpod.com</a>

Gaming with Jess Rowlings

The Neurodivergent Woman

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