Hello, and welcome to the mm QB NFL Monday Morning Podcast. I am your host, Gary Grambling. I'll be joined in just a few moments by a special guest. I really don't have a whole lot to talk about in the intro here. We're doing a show about running backs, which you probably already saw in the description and the and and the headline and all that. But um, we are talking about three guys plus a bonus, so some might call that four who are kind of in sticky contract situations or are going to be soon in sticky contract situations, and kind of talking about you know, look, it's it's not particularly bold to say, uh, don't pay running backs. That's that's kind of the you know, the common approach that everyone takes at this point. But um, we're just gonna discuss are there guys who should be paid? I mean, not quarterback money but you know, uh mid teens kind of deal that Christian McCaffrey got. But uh, with that, I bring in our special guests. It is Andy be annoyed. Andy, how are you? I'm doing well? Gary? How are you good? How? How passionate are you about running backs and the unfairness of being a running back, I should say. I. UM, I do find it unfair, and there's a part of me that's always wanted them to adjust the c b A to help the running backs more on rookie deals, I don't think that will happen. I don't see how that could happen. Um. And now I've mentioned the CBA and rookie there. UM. I I do probably fall on the camp of running backs being interchangeable, but it really depends on the system and circumstances with each guy, which is why we're going to break this down. I think there are different classifications of running backs, and those classifications really matter. And I'm talking style when I say that, I just want to and I promise I won't bring up rookie wage scale unless you open the door later in the show. But I just want to put a hypothetical out there for you. Uh, let's say there were no rookie wage scale and and it was almost like an open market for anyone coming to the league. So like se Kuon Barkley a couple of years ago, was just okay, who wants to sign him? Anyone can sign him. Uh, He's just gonna take the top offer. Would you you know, if you're getting these guys at two, would you feel more comfortable spending let's say high teams low twenties annually for a guy like this or is it just a function less of the wear and tear and more of just the role in the modern NFL. That's a great question, and I guess it gets to the heart of the classification thing I was just hinting at. I think if you're running back can contribute to your passing game, and especially if he can add dimension to your passing game, then he becomes a player worth paying. So Christian McCaffrey, Um, sae Quon Barkley, certainly, Alvin Kamara, and I'll be really interested interested to see what he gets when it's his turn to get a big second contract in the near future. If I'm not mistaken, UM, those guys to me are very valuable. Ezekiel Eliott would also be one of those players if it's a plug in, play, run the ball type of guy. Even though some running backs are certainly much better than others at that I'd have a tough time paying those guys given that you have to as we're talking about allocation of resources. I'm not saying they don't deserve it, they're not worth it. But I would allocate my resources on a roster differently. All right, well, let's start with the guy who's most recently in the news here. That is Dalvin Cook up in Minnesota, threatening to hold out. Obviously, there's there's not a whole lot to hold out from at this point. But I mean, look, a lot of people are sort of, you know, pointing at downand Cook. Oh, it's just like Melvin Gore. Nah, you know what an idiot. I can't believe he's doing this type of thing. But this is Downond Cook's only chance. I mean this, this is it. This is his chance to get paid. Uh. So it's gonna be now or potentially never he could. It's gonna be a double edged sword with him because he's gonna go into Let's say he went in and just played the final year of his rookie deal was fourth season, and he stayed healthy. I don't think that makes anyone look at him and say like, oh, well, now all of his injury problems are in the past. He does have significant injury risks here, and uh if he gets hurt again, obviously, that just hammers home like, well, he can't stay healthy, how can you pay him? So he's in a spot where he was he was healthy, you know, including postseason. He played sixteen games last year. He missed two, but you know he had thirty plus touches in a in a playoff game for them. So, uh. The other thing working in his favor right now is Stefan Diggs is gone there. We know the Vikings are just they they want to be ultra run heavy here and and you know, I like Alexander Madison, but I think Dalvin Cook is uh is on a different level. I mean, I think he's in that upper afchelon, you know, top five runners in the league right now. I think he is in the context of their system as a one cut, plant and go type of guy. I he's an outstanding runner. He's got great juice acceleration early in the run, he can accelerate late into the run. He's kind of you know, he runs a lot like I think Gary's is Darren Sprowles years ago. Certainly different styles of body type of course, but different styles of player. But it's those choppy steps. He's a super speedy feet on choppy steps and it works really well. For Dalvin Cook, the one big difference between his situation and Melvin Gordon's. I thought Gordon's hold out the decision was a really bad choice, and I thought I thought it was a bad choice from the beginning, and it obviously worked out that way. Gordon was due to make a lot more than Cook is due to make this year. Gordon left five point six million. I want to say it was on the table where he was, that's what he was holding out from Dalvin Cook this year is do a little over one million dollar one point three millions, So it's different circumstances by those guys. I understand why Cook is doing what he's doing. I don't know if he still has a whole lot of leverage though here he's better than Alexander Madison. But the Vikings, if I'm being honest, I didn't think those guys on film looked a whole lot different in that offense at times. I think they were. Cook's a better player, for sure. I think they're similar styles of runners. Zone and the Vikings are certainly doing the same stuff as a unit when Madison's in there as when Cook is in there. I never once did I feel like, well, they can't get to this concept because Cook's not available. Maybe maybe I need to stay one step back. Cook is a tremendous outside runner, really wide runner, and Madison probably does not have that horizontal range at Cooks has. But that's all within the flow of the offense still, because it's an outside zone offense, so all of their run players are still stretching to the perimeter. Cook gives them a little bit more options on the perimeter, but it doesn't change a bit about their foundation, whether it's him getting the ball or Alexander Madison getting the ball. I mean, realistically, you know Diggs is gone, They're they're looking for more weapons in the offense. I mean, to Cook have the potential? Uh two part question? To Cook have the potential to have a bigger role in the passing game here? And uh number two? Is this offense built for a back like that? I mean it does it? Does it make sense for them to try and carve out a more expansive role for him in the passing game? Well, it's it's hard to get because when you have a back like that, really, what you're wanting to do then is getting too wider formations and allow him that back to shift around the formation either motion out to the slot, motion out wide himself, or you want him running routes out of the backfield where he has space on both sides of him, so he has a two way go. That's a big part of route running for a back is squaring up your the linebacker who's guarding. You want to square him up as you come out of the backfield, even if you're going one direction the entire way, you want to force that linebacker to have to defend and both directions. That's how you gain separation. And it's harder to get to that kind of spacing and those kind of route designs out of base personnel, which is what the Vikings play two backs, two tight ends. The teams that are able to do that with their running backs are the ones that play out of eleven personnel where it's three receivers, it's a slot receiver and you can kind of get those guys a little bit further away from the ball. So I could Cook do that and his skill set. Does he have the ability to be a flexible receiving back. Yeah, possibly, I don't. I don't know if I've ever seen him in that light, Like what you gotta watch out for for Dalvin Cook here as a receiver. But he certainly has the type of athleticis and that's conducive to it. I don't know if that offense so is conducive to it. Yeah. Yeah, That's the other thing with the Vikings is the capitalise. They are right up against it. They don't have a whole lot of money to play around with here, and of course that's not Dalvin Cook's fault, but you know, a lot of a lot of money tied up in the quarterback, and I just I don't know what kind of motivation they have to get something done here. I do think they they come to some sort of compromise here, but uh, realistically, I just don't know how much they can free up for him right now. Well, and so let me let me let me just contradict my own point in a second ago too and play Devil's advocate. The one the one exception you could think about is they have Irv Smith is a number two tight end, and he is a very flexible number two tight end. He's a motion guy and on the move blocker when he's that, and obviously his greatest attributist is receiving ability, and at times he looks like a wide receiver, big slot receiver. If you had Cook as a flexible movable piece plus IRV Smith and you're a run first team, you theoretically could flex into passing formations out of your running personnel. You put IRV Smith in there with Kyle Rudolph and and then Dalvin Cook's running the ball, and that's a potent running game and we can split out into different formations, including empty and throw the ball there. So having a versatile tight en a uniquely versatile titan and can really help if you have the back to go with it. Maybe that's what if the Vikings, by chance, if Gary Kubiak was sitting around this offseason and it tells, you know, tells Mike Zimmer, we got a lot of stuff in here. Kirk Cousins has been here. While now we're comfortable with everybody. Let's expand we're gonna expand Dalvin Cook's role. You know, that could maybe I could see Cook's value then going up in that sense. Now, I don't know if that's possible they've done that, given that they haven't practiced this offseason. But I'm just trying to figure out where I want Cook to have value, because I like these good players to have value. Trying to figure out where it would be. Yeah, I mean, look, I don't think he is, and and correct me if I'm wrong. I I wouldn't put him in the McCaffrey range as far as uh annual salary. I don't think he's. I don't think it's a case of he's gonna Tom McCaffrey at this point. I think he's easily in you know, eight figure annually. I I I just don't know if this is the place he's going to get it. One thing to understand about McCaffrey too, And I was fine with the McCaffrey do I and understand it was hotly contested, but I was. I was fine with it. And he is certainly Carolina's backbone offensively, and you could argue he's the best all around back in the league right now. He is not the uber dynamic, flexible receiving weapon that his numbers suggest he can do that. He's certainly capable of that, but within the context of Carolina's offense. And maybe it'll be different now that Matt rules here and they have a different system with Joe Brady. But over the years, McCaffrey has been more of a really good checkdown piece, and they designed check down in similar type of routes to to maximize him there. And one thing they've always done with him is on his checkdowns, he's almost always are very often drifting down field when he catches, he's not turning around and completely putting his back to the goal post and facing the quarterback. He angles and drifts his check down so that he's kind of catching the ball on the run and he gets into his run after catch. I mean, it's a highly designed offense for checkdowns over the years, and that's where his production has come from. Now, Joe Brady has the background with the Saints system. He understands I see there when Alvin Camaro was there, he was there, yeah, and Camar's yeah. And even if he's not, he's certainly I'm sure he's watched all the Saints snaps and he knows what Alvin Camara brings to that team. So I would imagine McCaffrey's role will be more commensurate with how Alvin H. Camara is used in New Orleans. But the idea that McCaffrey you know, a lot of his catches come out of the backfield. I guess that's the point to understand. And Cook can be a very productive and effective receiver out of the backfield. Not like McCaffrey, but better than an average guy for sure. All Right, let's let's go on to a guy who was in Dalvin Cook's position this time last year, although he he didn't have the kind of uh season in his third season that he did in his fourth season. That's a that's Derrick Henry, who obviously right now is subject to the franchise tender, which would be a little more than ten million for the season if he plays on that. He wants a long term deal. And this is look, this is where it gets interesting. Andy Uh obviously not a big receiving threat. He you know, he does some nice things in the in the screen game and some of that stuff, but he's not a guy who you're gonna have any sort of expansive role in the passing game for. And not to interrupt, but he'll have zero right he did not play essentially, do not play a snap on third down last year. That that role was Dion Lewis's at the time. Now now will be Darren tin Evans third round rookie. But to continue, I mean, he we understand that, we need to understand that Henry has zero impact in their passing game. It's just a style of player he is. But he does and you saw him the second the last second half of last year. He had so many long runs, so many big play runs, so many six yard runs. Is that one Is that sustainable? And if so, does sort of make up for the fact that he's not a factor in the passing game. Well, it certainly makes up for the yes, because he was an All Pro running back last year and they were a run first offense, and they went all the way to the a s C Championship and got better as the season went along. So you can't argue that Derrick Henry was not and is not a valuable piece. And he makes up for a lack of dimension or flexibility by being a tremendous runner, for sure. It almost just gets into a philosophical discussion then, of what is a pounding run first running back in a run first offense? What is that guy worth? What's worth? Andy? What you give? Would you give him a McCaffrey s deal? Would you make a commitment of you know what would essentially be like forty five million over three years. What gives me pause about that is his style of running is so violent and built on moment him and and breaking tackle off of contact when he will he age fast is what you want to remember maryan Barber years ago for the Cowboys and the Bears, and you watched Marian Barber run and I think we kind of all thought when he hits the wall, he's gonna hit it, and the wall is not gonna move an inch. I mean, he will hit the wall when that happens, and and it did happen. He hit the wall very quickly. And now I used to think that was going to happen with Marshawn Lynch, and I guess Lynch aged pretty well given his style of running. He The difference so between Lynch and Henry, even though they both played in those outside zone running schemes in their prime, is Henry is a build up speed runner with almost with very little short area change of direction. Lynch is a light footed runner for a power guy. He gets behind his paths really well, but he runs on the on the balls of his feet and he has some agility early in the run, and part of what he was so good at his They would run outside zone and he would almost always cut the ball back immediately, so he would run inside zone when they're running plays for outside zone. And by the way, that in the Super Bowl, the Patriots figured that out and started attacking in a certain way that made Lynch go inside, and they knew he was going and it was it's gonna get to football nerdy. But they ran a bunch of linebacker blitz is that forced Lynch to always cut it back, knowing that that was his natural inclination anyway, and their other linebacker would clean up on it. Even even if you can scheme for a guy like Lynch, you can do more with Lynch though. You can scheme for him defensively, but you can scheme for him offensively. But Gary Person could argue, all right, but Derrick Henry, you can't really scheme for. You gotta line up and play and tackle that man. It's what football was originally, and it's a league now that doesn't give you a lot of time to practice tackling, and it's a bunch of agile players defensively, a lot of nickel defenses, so linebackers get smaller. Even if they're playing in base, they still wig too twenty to five. Some of those guys we're gonna we're just fine running the ball down your throat. But if you're gonna play like that with Henry, you have to have good blockers in front of him because he needs a clear path to get going. He can't make anybody miss in the backfield the way Lynch could. Yeah, it's funny. I feel like they are built for that. They're going to continue to be built for that. I mean, they last they lost Jack Conklin, but they draft Isaiah Wilson, who you know, you can first round pick you, you would be optimistic that you have a pretty good replacement for Conklin at this point. The other thing is I don't really see around the league. I mean, you know, the Jaguars when they sort of were building around Leonard for Nett, you could say, well, maybe this is maybe there's a trend that's gonna emerge to a point where defenses are gonna have to react to it. I still feel like the Titans are unique in what they do, and I think there's value in that because, uh, you know, no one's gonna no one's gonna build their defense with the solitary thought of we have to stop Derrick Henry at some point in January. Well, especially because when Tennessee gets into its play action game, which is really the teeth of their passing game and what Ryan Tannehill does best, those are in breaking routes. So often the guys you're attacking the passkeme are those same linebackers that you need to have them selling out in the run game. That that is why it works so well. If you have to be coming at Derrick Henry in order to tackle him, you cannot absorb his contact and bring him down if you're a linebacker or any any position. But so with that in mind, a team that runs play action and has in breaking routes and it's built on run after catch, that's a good formula. You want those linebackers having to attack down hill. That's the whole point of play action. So here's the deal. Like you said, the risk is, you know when's he gonna hit the wall? Uh, he's he's he's not old. He will be what he's twenty Well, he's a January birthday, so he's twenty six right now. Uh. But he's coming off a year where he and four hundred. I believe it's nine if my math is correct, touches it is. And look we we saw you know, DeMarco Murray. I mean, you know, he was a guy who was coming off historically great season for the Cowboys. They let him walk and and obviously he just he didn't do anything in Philadelphia. I look at Henry and I just think the way that team is constructed and the way the rest of the league is constructed right now, I think you do make And when I say, when I say do you commit the big money? Again, you're talking three years. I think for any non quarterback, you're typically you know, no matter what the what the agent puts out there for the uh, for the years and and and the money, it's it's typically three years or non quarterbacks. And with Henry, you're talking do you do you give him, you know, McCaffrey money over three years? Does he essentially get fifty over three? Uh? I think you do it. I think you do it. If you're the Titans. Well there's one remind me want to talk about DeMarco Murray in a second as an as the example you brought up there the other part I wonder about, and it would probably differ and very from team to team, and it would get down to who's your GM and what's his philosophy or who has final say on the roster. It seems like there ought to be something to paying your best players. And you know, Derrick Henry is their best player. That offense went through him, and even last year when they had everything, they had the playoffs spot basically secured late in Week seventeen, they kept handing him the ball because they wanted him to win the rushing title and the old line wanted that. That's their identity. It's if I would think it would be hard to keep a sound of a locker room as possible if you're playing negotiating hardball with the guy that you're building the offense around to some degree, especially for a team that they ought to view themselves as super Bowl or bust this year or so to speak, because that's there, that's where they were last year a game away. I think that's a great point, Andy and uh I got it out. Note I have to remind you to talk about DeMarco Murray now. Yeah, and by I've had some coaches say to me that that's everything, like, like, we don't want to pay a running back because we don't trust this guy to work because he's not our best you know if he if you your best player, needs to be your highest paid player. Let's put it that way. So some teams really look closely at who are we paying the most, because that's what you're making a statement to the rest of your team about, this is what we are offensively or defensively. The DeMarco Murray thing because he's a great example of a free agent I guess you'd call a free agent bust. And at the running back position, he was never as good as his numbers suggested though in Dallas, and I know that that coaching staff at the time felt like he should have had the all time rushing record for a single season that year that that he had all those rushing yards in Dallas. I think it was what year was that for Murray? It's uh, yeah, it feels about right, yeah, eighteen hundred and forty five yards, and you think that's incredible. He left a lot of yards on the on the field that year, and Dallas knew that, and that's why the next year he was in Philadelphia, and though he just rushed for eighteen hundred yards. So Henry is a and I could see why people would make the comparison. I'm not saying you made the comparison. I could see why they would, though, because Murray kind of thought of as okay, k of another behind his paths downhill type of runner. Henry is in a different class in de Marco Murray. Though Murray was stiff and unimaginative at times. All Right, let's, uh, let's look into the future a little bit. Sae Kwon Barkley. A year from now, he'll be in the same situation that Christian McCaffrey was. Uh this pass off season when McCaffrey got his contract. I mean, look at if Dave Gentleman is there, and I think that is a big if. Obviously things are not going great with this rebuild. On top of that, they have they have a really difficult schedule, Uh, Giants. Giants might be looking at like another four and twelve type of season here. So se Kwon Barkley's you know, number two overall pick. If it's the same regime, you almost have to pay him. And I'm not saying this is like a sunk cost Faulcy type of thing. He is. He's the guy you thought you were getting. He's a really good player. Uh. I guess the one thing I point out about Barkley that's a little bit different is he is scheduled to make just under eleven million in one and his fifth year option will Uh there's still some some things that need to happen to determine it, but it will probably hover somewhere around twelve for his fifth year. So you know, obviously that's still below market, but it's it's not as below market as you know, like we said Dalvin Cook, who is making six figures annually coming into this year and is just pushing over the one million dollar mark for the season. But um, I guess my coach and you, Andy, is would you expect a year from now Barkley is going to reset the running back market? And if so, do you think it's just you know, he gets a little bit more he's out like seventeen million annually or is us a guy who's a little bit different than what we see around the league. He's probably the best running back in the NFL. We're just going off of pure talent that does that seem right? All we're talking all around talent. Yeah, i'd agree with that. Yeah, it's I mean, it's it's it would be Eire Barkley, mccaffreck could be in that conversation. I think Barkley is the guy that fewer defensive coordinators would want to play against if you caught him in an honest moment. Um Ezekiel Eli is in that conversation, and Kamara, even though you know Camara only plays about half the snaps. So it's it's But if it's the people who drafted Barkley, it would make sense for them to Assuming Berkeley rebounds from kind of a little bit of a down year last year, it would make sense for them to re up him, even though the draft cost is a separate cost as a sunk cost. I guess it would be if you're taking Sekwan Berkeley, you're deciding, Okay, we're gonna build our offense around that guy. That's we're gonna build it around a flexible passing game and a run first approach or a dynamic running game. And what in the last few years of Barkley's career would have happened that would make you change paths or think, Okay, that's actually not the right idea. I know you're not winning games, but that's that's not because you have the wrong the wrong bottom line agenda. It's because you just don't have a great team all around these guys, you're still rebuilding it. I don't know why you wouldn't pay Barkley based on the way you've committed to building the offense. But I'm working through this out loud. I'm not banging the tables here at all. I could easily be swayed. I think that's the only thing you're just looking at and saying, like, hey, we're we're all repaying you twenty two million over the next two seasons, which is you know, again, like you said, that is not the situation that Derrick Henry or down and Cook was in, or even Christian McCaffrey, even though he was also a top ten pick. So you know, just sort of just sort of a sit tight type of thing, and let's see what happens when we get to the end of year four and uh, you know, then we figured something out before that that option to your kicks in. But that's that's kind of where I'm sitting out with it. Yeah, the Rams did the talk Gurley deal obviously, and it had a little bit of a feel like good faith negotiations, like Todd Gurley deserved. He was their best player, one of their great players and seen, and you pay your great players, and they did and obviously didn't work out very well. I wonder if that's gonna sour other gms on wanting to make that kind of move. I mean, obviously it will for for if you pay the back, that's gonna factor in. But I mean even proactively paying it back while he's at his best, kind of getting back to what we were just talking about, do you want to reward your best players and let their teammates see that you're paying that guy. Yeah, And and look, the other thing working in favor of the argument that pay Barkley is obviously they have the quarterbacks still on the rookie deal, so you can play with money at this point, whereas uh, maybe you can't as much once uh uh Daniel Jones is on contract number two or I mean whatever if if they decide Daniel Jones is not the guy and they're hitting reset at quarterback, then that's a whole other conversation. But um, yeah, you know, I don't know. Maybe you're right, Maybe you do pay him, Maybe you do make the move next offseason and and show the good faith and and move on from there. Ye. Well, how what's the bigger investment paying him a second contract or drafting him number two overall? Uh, it's that's a really good question. I would say drafting him number two overall, because you're you're missing out on that chance to get someone on the severe, severe discount at another position. I mean that that's kind of the issue with it. I mean, look, he's a guy again that this is a it is below market for you know, a guy who's who's the most talented running back in the league. But you know, it's it's ultimately it's it's gonna be thirty one million, forty three or so million over five years. I mean, that's that's a that's sort of the top of the market running back contract. There. There's no you don't get that bonus of getting the guy cheap because of the rookie wage scale. And I agree with you on the logic of that. If you take Berkeley two overall, it means you're not taking another player as well. If you if you if you let him walk in free agency instead of signing to a second contract. You're not. It doesn't give you a chance to get a different player necessarily. So I get what you're saying. I agree with you. So all right by that logic, Then if taking him number two overall is the bigger investment, and you've already made that investment, then to not give Barkley a second contract, you would be tacitly saying that our plan didn't work. You'd be you'd be abandoning ship at that point. Yeah, No, you're right, and our plan being our foundation, our grand big plan. I take back everything I said five minutes ago it was. I mean, look, if it's Gettleman, they absolutely will do it and and probably should do it. I mean, look, the risk you take is, Okay, we're gonna give this guy the three year commitment now, and then you know, you get a Todd Gurley injury or or you know, I don't think Barkley's at risk of falling off the way David Johnson did. But uh, you don't see injury factor at running back and the wear and terror factor. So that's that's what that's what sort of comes in, and that's that's why you take it year to year as long as you can. But you know, yeah, I I don't know that I did pay him, pay him if definitely your Dave Gettleman, and probably otherwise. Yeah, um Gurley had the injury history and concern coming out of college. Barkeley didn't. That's yeah, something to to keep in mind. It's I have a quick sake on Barkley story, and I want to know how you if if you feel I did the right thing or not. At the SP's last year, which whereas at the Staples Center, that area outside the stables series a whole you know, it's a whole area. I mean it's like a it's not just a basketball arenas you as you probably imagine, yep. Lining the streets out there, scraggling along were various autograph collectors, and there was a guy had been carrying a giant's helmet around all morning. And I saw se Kwon Barkley. He walked right out of by my hotel across the street, and this giant guy was half a block away, was going in the other direction. Though I could have told him that, hey, Sae Kwon Barkley is right over there, and I didn't. I didn't say say anything to him. The guy wand up figuring it out late and he went running, did his best to run like se Kwon Barkley, but they didn't catch him. He got turned away. The reason I didn't tell him that, hey, Sa Kwan's over there because this guy was like in his mid forties. It wasn't if it was a kid, I would have told the heart in a heartbeat, but I thought, no, you over the age of twenty. I was too old to be collecting autographs. I understand some people do it. That's they're they're living its memorability. I get that. It's I think you're too old to be asking for a person's autograph when you're over age twenty and I think I'm being generous. On the twenty I was gonna say, if you have a driver's license, you're you're out. That's a good way. Well, yeah, for asking for an autograph, I think you're out. I would agree with that. You ought in high school you ought to be dignified enough. You're still gonna go fan boyle it's that's you're gonna want a fan boy him, probably until these guys get to be about five years younger than you are. And then you and I can't imagine fan boy and someone in their twenties, um as a thirty something year old. But your fan boyhood, this fan boyhoodness should not include asking for the autograph. You ought to be like handshake or ask just asking him a question. I don't have a problem with asking for the autograph. I think at this point it's a question are you fighting for the autograph? And it sounds like there's a situation where he was going to be fighting for the autograph. I mean, look, if you Barkley was all like Barkley had one guy with him, but he was unimpeded. He was out in open space. It wasn't like there was a scrum of people nearby the guy would have had the guy would have had to chase him down a little bit like you would have had to hustle. Yep. And part of the reason I also didn't point out because I thought, if the guy at the Giant's helmet hustles, other people will too, and then I'll feel bad for doing that. To take Kwan Berkeley, that's a good But yeah, you did probably worried he saw that it was me that did that, and then somehow his handlers. Remember that and if it bites me later, you you you did the right thing. Okay, there are some but look, there's some nuance of this. I have no brotherlem. Look, if people want to collect an autograph, so like, you know, go for it. I think there's above a certain names. Like I said, if you have a driver's license, you can't fight. You can't be in a scrum for an autograph anymore. You can go to like an organized signing and pay you to get the guy's autograph or whatever else it might be. Or should you happen to you know, if this guy had to be walking by see Quon Barkley with his giant's helmet, sure, yeah, you can ask him to sign. That's no problem. You know. I don't understand why autographs are valuable. Why a guy writing his name on something makes that something really valuable. I've got and I look in my football room. Might have five really big time player autographs up on the walls from when I was a kid, though, But I guess they're valuable because of people like me as kids. Is that why yeah have to be people? Yes? Um, and and I have a I have a ton of autographs. I used to go out to baseball games all the time and and try and get as many autographs as I could. And because of that, I still have the urge to like ask for an autograph. Do you really I'm trying to think the last time I asked some of for an autograph. It like when I take my kids to baseball games, a minor league baseball games, and I mean, they don't care, they don't watch the game, they don't know who any of the guys are. Um, we have the Rocky the Rockies double a affiliate, uh, closest to us, and you know, we go to these games and it's kind of like like, oh, you guys should go get autographs. And it's like, uh, I I don't know why. I I don't. I wouldn't be able to explain it, but you should just want autographs. Um my nephew went crazy for Harlem Globe Trotter autographs a year ago. Yeah. I took him to a Globe Trotters game. We go and and he's he's eleven, he was stay, he was twelve at the time. I guess he's twelve. I will say, uh. And this is they're not a sponsor of this podcast, but the Harlem Globetrotters games are awesome. I brought my kids each of the last two years that they also they like getting the autographs. They don't, they don't care that much, but those games are awesome. That that's like the best bang for your buck entertainment you can get. I didn't. I didn't think the defense was very good at the game. Um, one other quick autograph thing, Tell me if this was the right one or wrong one? My first my second Monday night football game, and I was doing like uh, I was just hanging out with the behind the scenes with ESPN. So I got to be down on the field before the game and a fan, a lady, grabbed me. She came up and started leans over the fence like the you know it leans over the bleacher ends. Uh. Talks down to me on the sideline begging me for an autograph, and I go over and talk to her. She grabs my arm. It's holding my arm, please, sir, please, She just wants anograph. She didn't say which player, which team. She just wanted something with a signature on it. And I, obviously I could not. You cannot canna approach a player before the game. Ever, I'm not gonna especially if you're there as a as a game n even with the team. I mean, you can't do that. That's career suicide. I understood that what I was debating in my head was whether to take whatever it was she was getting, just a ball or something. Take the ball, say yeah, you know what, I'll get it. I'll be right back, walk into the tunnel, sign it myself or as somebody else, and just tell her it's so, and will signed it. Not to defraud her or anything, but just to make her feel because I thought, what's the difference, as you're not gonna be the signature is gonna look sloppy and illegible no matter what, because everybody's signature is Just go tell her this was Sean Rogers, that he was just the Browns at the time. Say hey, Sean Rogers signed this, and bring it back to her. She'll feel great the rest of the night. I thought you were gonna say, you're gonna take it and sign it, Andy Benoy, and I would. I would sign it. I would sign it as I'd forged the autograph. The saddest thing average I used to work, Uh did I do the right thing? First of all, I didn't do. I wound up not doing it at all. But wouldn't have been the right thing. Uh, it would have been an interesting that it was good problem solving. I'll give you that you can't do. You can't engage with that though. You can't be involved in that. She the way she called me over it felt I didn't know she was asking for something. I don't know what I thought she was gonna ask when I went over there. Okay, she she it was. It was a little bit of a bait and kind of deal. You were too curious. That's what got you in this situation. That was a good problem solving though, that that was that was a little bit impressive. Um. I used to Uh, and I'm about to violate my own rule here because I just said, if you have a driver's license, you you can't be fighting for autographs. I didn't fight for our greshs. But I used to work the concession stand at at the old Foxboro Stadium two times a year, and uh, me and my buddy Mike would go there and and we'd uh you could basically just like sit in the first row and like watch moremouth and stuff, and then you know, Drew blitzoe will walk over the ensign suff because he's got nothing else going on at that point. But uh, we would occasionally, because we had collected a lot of Patriots autographs, he would go see the visiting team sometimes, you know, getting on and off the bus. And one time it was the Jets and Art Monk was playing out the end of his career. I'm not even sure he was on the active roster anymore now, he was because I had his football card with the Jets one year, so he had to be because I have it was in the Jets uniform where that was before they were obviously photoshopping the uniforms on two guys. But someone emerged to get onto the Jets bus who was clearly not Art Monk because he's about five ft ten. But someone yelled Art Monk, and there was a guy with like inauthentic, like Riddell Jets helmet who just you know, battled his way this guy's autograph and this you know, this this guy, I think he ended up being like a w f AAN commentator or something. Um took the helmet. He's like, it was a really nice helmet, and the guy was like, could you sign it please? So the guy signed it as himself, not his art monk, and like handed it back to the guy. And now this guy has some person who's autographed he did not want scribbled on his like helmet. That's too bad at the values to helmet alt Michael signed a football and the football was then worth less than it had been before it was signed. One time it was an authentic game ball, so I think it was game ball, and he signed it in the autograph there was for sale for sixty or something. I've heard. I think I heard him tell that story, not on the air sometime anyway, all right, that's good on autographs. We had, we had one more. We still had our bonus. This is really nice because now the fourth guy, the bonus guy, feels like a bonus. Although McCaffrey was a bit of a bonus. We talked more McCaffrey than we planned. But uh, I just want to ask you about the Joe Mixon. I mean, he's a guy we talked about earlier in the off season. Here he was after Derrick Henry. He was the number two leading rusher in the league in the second half of last year. I realized that's you know, it's eight game span. It's not a huge sample size, but he was very good in the second half of the year behind the line that got better but was still not a good offensive line. And uh, I mean, look, they're obviously they're going to be built around something different. Uh, you know, with Joe Burrow there, and and they've they've invested in the in the receiving corps, etcetera. But um, I mean it's Joe Mixon, a foundational back, a second contract type of guy. Is the a three years, forty million type guy to you? Or is he kind of like a uh you know, see if we can get him on our terms. If we can't, it will just we'll move on to the next guy. As a talent running the ball, I'd say the people who are better than Joe Mix in the NFL would be Ezekiel Elliott and Sae Juan Berkley. We're talking raw talent running the ball, Sae Kwon Berkley. I don't think you can put Levy on Bell there right now. Bell needs to bounce back. It wasn't all his fault. They didn't have a productive season last year, but he need he needs to be more productive. I think it's those two guys. I think it's Elliott Barkley, and I think Mixing is the third most talented pure runner. McCaffrey is a better all around player than Mixing, and McCaffrey is a great runner himself, But I think that's where Mixing is. Kamara might be third, Mixing fourth. I think Mixing an elite talent. I wouldn't have a lot of problem with a team paying him to get to be second in the league rushing behind that offensive line and that old line. And since he was a lot better in the second half of the season, they they deserve some credit for that, but it's not a great offensive line. To be second in the league rushing behind that is a tremendous achievement. Yeah, and he uh, this was not a team that like it led a lot of games and and therefore he sort of had some accumulated stats. I mean he had to he had to earn that yardage. Well he created, Yeah, they'd be I can't believe you've gotten this far in the podcast, and I have not used a phrase create your own yards yet for the running back. I usually get that in there if it's a defensive line show. But mix And can create his own yards and you don't really see it on t You can't see it on TV. But where you see it best is when you get to the end zone, angle on the coaches film and your canvas directly behind him, and you see such a subtle, nuanced wiggle that makes defenders. He makes them wrong before they have a chance to be right or wrong, before you can lunge at mix, and he makes you have to move or react to his movement. He's a nuanced runner in that sense. And his lateral agility when he has to it could be subtle or it can be outright explosive. His lateral agilities off the charts. All right, pego mixing that lateral agility I think is the most important trade of running back and have in the NFL. That and balance contact balance, running balance. It's fair. I won't disagree with that, alright. Is there more mixing can do in the in the passing game? I mean, like I thought he was gonna be, you know, Lady On Bell type guy, and he's he's good in the passing game, but he hasn't been a difference maker in the passing game. Yeah, he hasn't. I do think he's capable of that, he'd probably have to be coached very specifically to that in terms of the details of route running and all everything that it brings. He certainly has the skill set, though Zach Taylor's offense it's not it's not reliant on those tactics as much as other offenses would be. One thing the Rams do it. I don't know if the Bengals. I'd have to look and see if the Bengals are doing as well. But the Ram which that's that's their system that the Bengals runs, the Rams system, they will spread out and go into empty formations. When they get on the fringe of the red zone, they'll do it then. But they're not a big empty team. And when you sprout and go to empty that's really where you're back as a versatile pieces at his most valuable. So it's it's not integral to what they do in Cincinnati. Okay, Andy, this was a This was a good conversation. I feel like we sort of defended the the character and the pride of running backs who are just just not respected. No, they're important players. They're good players on the team, and unfortunately a lot of them just by the nature of the game today are replaceable. But the guys we talked about, I think we've decided they weren't, didn't we Hernry's unique Barkley is certainly unique mix, and I just said I think very unique. Cook is replaceable in style, but he's a tremendous outside zone runner. Yeah, Dalvin Cook stuff is going to be interesting just because I mean, he he you know, by his own fault during his send he fell to the second round when he's the first round talent and didn't get paid. And now he's got a chance to get paid. I think you will get paid, but you know, we'll get paid at the top of the market. Uh, it's gonna be tough. How how I'm looking at the rushing leaders in the NFL last year. This is for attempts, so I guess it's not for yards, it's for attempts. But out of the top eleven, how many would you guess at running back for former first round picks? Um? Actually this is I can say that out of the top ten for rushing yard, tell me we're former first round picks two seven? Really that's shot? You know what I think? At six? Derrick Henry was not a first round of right, he went later. Yeah, yeah, he was second round. So so it's six still, it's just still not a small number. Um. Nick Chubb was drafted work because Nick Chubb was tremendous last season. He was, he was second round. He was early second round, alright, so early second round. So second round and second round, the top two and then the rest are basically the only guy who's not. It was McCaffrey, first rounder, Elliott first rounder, Lamar Jackson, who's a quarterback. I guess he's not. I don't know what to do with that. He's not one. I'm counting though. It's for net Josh Jacobs, Joe Mixon, and I guess Dalvin Cooke was early second as well, wasn't he? Yeah, Mixing wasn't a first rounder either though, was he not? He was second round? Yeah, so you're you're right, You're right, you're right, So all right, hold on, then hold on, we can still salvage this. Four first rounders and then three guys who were first half of the second round. It's what I'm trying to say, Okay, that's right, or am I off on that too? That's a little bit different now you're it's different, by it's different by fifteen picks. I guess, yeah, it's it's certainly different. Was on one of those correct good point. Good point. So sa Quan was not even in that discussion. But I guess it's just something to keep him with someone like me who sits here and says, we're running backs are interchangeable. The good ones, the high drafted ones are still being very productive. The Chris Carstons are a lot rarer than it looks like. Okay, that's into those numbers. I'm just I'm just trying to give running back some love here. I would have guessed that there'd be two or three top ten backs at most, and I wouldn't have guessed that seven of them would have been picked in the top fifty for leading rushers. Yeah, well that's a that's a good uh foe stat that we just we just decided to wrap this one up. If I had delivered it correctly, you would have been very impressed, like you would have been, the fact that itself would have grabbed you. I'm still pleasantly surprised, I'll say that. Yeah, all right, uh Andy, once again, thanks for joining us, and uh we'll call this just goodbye for now. All right. The mm QB Monday Morning NFL podcast is me Gary Grambling once again special thanks to our guests Andy Bennoit. We are produced by Shelby Royston, Sis, Executive producer of podcast of Scott Brody. Ben Eagle is director of Editorial Projects and product Mark Ravick is Emeritus editor of the MMQB andy Anoit is the founder of the MMQB NFL podcast. Keep up with our entire lineup the podcast five days a week by subscribing to the MQB NFL Podcast for free on Apple Podcasts. And while you're there, please do us a favor and leave a rating m review. 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