Okay, guys, weeks side podcast time, Jenny and I back I being Connor or thanks for joining us. Um, We're going to do a little bit of a shorter podcast today, but just talk about something that I think has been lurking in the background a little bit. Um. I was on a call last week for the announcement of the new Hard Knocks, and while it was fun, I think to talk about you know, um, Anthony Lynn saying that Melvin Ingram is going to be a breakout star and he's gonna make us laugh this uh this offseason and he's gonna be funny during training camp, there was that underbelly of a lot of the questions that were fielded I think by the Hard Knocks people, and that you know, how the hell do we know any of this is happening? You know, what degree of certainty does anybody have that um, training camp is going to start on time, that it's a good idea to have a film crew there. Um, you know, uh, you know, blah blah blah. There's ethical questions about showing coronavirus testing and all that other stuff, But UM, I don't know, Jenny, I mean, it's just sort of sometimes the tea leaves sort of point you in a certain direction. I know, before we started recording, um, we saw that the Giants had sent out an email the season ticket holders saying, if you don't buy season tickets this year, that's fine. You can still get back in the line next year and and hold your PSL and and do all that kind of stuff. Baseball is struggling, and while a lot of that's labor related, I mean, the camps had to close because of you know, covid um. Basketball is you know, on shaky ground right now. I don't know where our optimism is coming from with football, and I'm a little bit worried that we're all just assuming this thing is gonna is gonna start um and there's a second wave potentially coming here. I don't know. I don't want to sound like a worry warts, which I've been accused of in the past. My uh uh, people call me chicken little. They make fun of me, and they call me chicken little. But um, but I would say that I don't know. I mean, this feels like not good, right, I mean, like none of this feels like we're heading in the right direction for football to start on time. Yeah, I feel like the last week or so there were a lot of troubling developments, and in the middle of that, the NFL p a S medical director Tom Mayor wrote a statement that they published. It said to all players, please be advised that it is our consensus medical opinion that in light of the increase in COVID nineteen cases in certain states, that no players should be engaged in practicing together in private workouts. Our goal is to have all players and your families as healthy as possible in the coming months. And so as we've seen, this has been a common phenomenon across the country with small group workouts. There was a group of forty niners in the Nashville area. We obviously saw Tom Brady with a group in Tampa Bay, Matt Ryan, Philip Rivers, Josh Allen, the list goes on. So players and teams have kind of been moving to this moderated offseason and model where the players kind of got together on their own, and now the union is saying to pull back on that. So I think that the increase in several cases, as as Tom Mayor noted, and the on college campuses as athletes have returned, the uptick in cases their small outbreaks. You know. I think there was some question of like what what would be the cause to kind of get a team to pull back because Alan Stills, the NFL's medical director, had said there will be positive cases, but the question is kind of containing those and making sure it doesn't spread. But now we have clumps of players, you know, more than a dozen college players testing positive for COVID, and that would be enough to shut things down. So I think we it was kind of a sobering reminder that there's still a lot of cases out in in our country and we're seeing this increase again and probably need to slow things down a little bit. Yeah. I mean that to me is you know, we've, um, we've talked a lot on this show about kind of how the NFL has felt it's been important to just sort of plow ahead, um, you know, and to keep everything on schedule. I think that while there's you know, some financial, you know, reasons for doing that as well, they did sort of out themselves as as this group of people that were helping everybody get through a hard time and everything like that. But I I wonder when the real discussions are really going to happen and not only that, but you know, but they are going to spill out into the public and I know that, you know, we the doctors are saying all this, you know, but when are you know, when is everybody going to come to grips with this? I mean that that to me is just sort of the hard thing to stomach is that, I don't know, I just always see the NFL kind of just going la la la, you know, while the rest of the country is actually dealing with these problems head on. You know, how do they address that on the Hard Knocks call Connor Because obviously, from where we sit, media access during training camp is a big question mark right now. Who will be allowed at practice? How many reporters would you even be able to do a training camp trip? Just a staple of you know, the national media summer essentially, but Hard Knocks takes place in camp or not very far away from when they would start filming for that. Yeah. Um, you know there was after the call I did see um you know, uh, Buddy Baker, who's an agent who has represented guys like Shaquille Griffin. Um, you know, Doug Baldwin was incensed at the idea of having Hard Knocks. Um from an agent's perspective, because he's saying, you know, that's another extra. However, many people that are following these guys around with cameras and you know, you're just making a bigger risk. Um. And on the call, I mean, the vibe just seemed like, well, we're taking our que from the people that are, you know, from the powers that be. We're taking our que from them, and we're gonna follow all the guidelines and the protocols. And it's like, but but what are the guidelines? What are the protocols? You know, when is all this stuff going to be decided? And has anybody else taken a look around at the rest of the world and said, oh wow, the two or three states that tried to open up fully are really getting hammered right now and we should probably be a little bit more concerned about this. And I don't know, I'm I'm concerned about it for a lot of reasons. I'm concerned about it because I think that fans see this as a light at the end of a long tunnel, uh, you know, and I'm concerned that um, you know, players, their families, everybody. I mean, this is just this is not a good thing. I think to just continue to kick the can down the road. I mean, I would like to see Roger Goodell or somebody come out and acknowledge the fact that, like, hey, this this is still going on here, and let's let's start acting like it. Yeah, And I think what you just referenced there is really important. Connor is that they're certainly players who will be in high risk groups, players who may have some kind of immuno compensation compromisation. Um. Higher body weight is a risk factor. Sleep apnea is often common in NFL players, especially ones who weigh more. So I think that one really important thing to keep in mind is that there's going to be groups of the NFL player population that are higher risk for CODE. So we're seeing, Okay, well, there's positive tests and it's because the increase of testing, and most of these players are asymptomatic. But there's going to be players in the population who would not handle a positive tests as well. They would have more symptoms and they could have complicating factors that put them more at risk. And then the other thing is players don't live alone. They have families. They have wives, partners, children, extended families. Some might have parents living with them, and so the idea that you could containing the risk to them and their loved ones when they're going to and from you know, practice situation a game situation, it's just not realistic. And the bubble model is not realistic for other reasons. I know that the the n b A, that's you know, their approach, but so it just feels like there's not really a great situation. And I think we're kind of thinking, we're kind of feeling okay, oh, things are calming down, Like the NFL League office right we saw you know, employees posting that they were headed back to work today because things seem a little bit more under control in New York. And so I think it's easy to say, like, hey, we've been in our bubble. Everything looks like we're returning to some normal aspects of life. But then you think about the reality of actually like playing football contact sport with teams from different parts of the country, and it's really hard to wrap your head around that how that would work, which I think is what Sean McVeigh said on that Hard Knocks call Connor right. So, I think the context free version of the out um looked a lot more damning. I think than it actually was what Sean McVeigh. I mean, what he was saying was ingest, but at the same time, I think was a real thought in that. You know, he just said, I don't know how we're going to do this football was social distancing, you know, and uh he said it more as a crack to um Anthony Lynn, the Chargers coach, who was also on the call, But um, yeah, I mean I think that that sentiment is something that we've all felt and uh, let's need The Rams general manager made a joke on the call that said, well, you know, have you ever seen how they played football in the Big twelve. They've been social distancing for the last like two or three years ha ha ha um because their linemen have really wide splits and and all that stuff. But um, but yeah, I mean I think that what Sean McVeigh said perfectly captured everything. You know. It was just like, I don't know how we're going to do this, And I think that there was a little bit of honesty there. I mean, everybody had time to come up with a game plan and to come up with exercises and drills and all this stuff that you can do, but the facilities aren't equipped to have people six ft apart in these meetings and you know, all this stuff, and I think it's everybody is still digesting the overwhelming magnitude of this situation, and I just, um, I don't know, I don't it's not getting better. I mean, you know, you can whatever your new source of choices. You know, the New York Times has a handy graphic every day that says cases are rising in pupa, upa, and cases are falling in bupah blah blah. Look at those and look at how many states cases arising? And do those states have NFL teams? Yes, you know, And I don't know. So that's uh, that's I don't know. That's where we are right now. Yeah, they're definitely going to be some difficult ethical conversations, some difficult logistical conversations, all of the above ahead. You know, my parents live in State College, Pennsylvania, and we were talking out this. You know, it's a pretty small, isolated community, you know, rural area, not a lot of through through traffic, right, you kind of have to pick going to State College to go there. Um, and the football players are returning to workouts and you know, I guess you can isolate, you know, for two weeks in a dorm, but then what happens like when the students come back. And I know this is a little tangential question that's not specifically related to the NFL, but they're planning to have classes in the fall. So what does that mean when forty students come to campus and you can't really quarantine them all for two weeks or at least there it doesn't seem to be a plan to do so. Um and some live off campus, some live on campus, very different situations and things can all go awry with one night out right. So that's what I think is pretty scary about all of this is that you know, you can have all these protocols in place, but people are still having lives away from the practice facility or away from school or whatever situation you're talking about, and can't control people's activities. And then you just increase the chances that if we still have a the number of cases of COVID in our country, like if there's still enough active cases in our country that can spread. Yeah, I think back to the beginning when all this started, and you know, we've talked on this show a lot about UM, how people's decision making processes have changed over the years to the point now where it's all shamelessly about UM. You know, that effort to keep that whatever you have good going right. And you know what would have happened if we had sort of real leadership at any of the sports levels. And you know, credit to the NBA certainly for recognizing it at the time UM that it happened. They were maybe the entity that woke the world old up to UM the seriousness of what was going on. But I always wondered, you know, what the NFL could have done if they had taken this headstart that they were given and applied you know, some logic to it, listened to the doctors who have been saying the same things that they've been saying, UM since this started, that there's gonna be an uptick in cases that when you open things up again, there's going to be problems all this stuff. And you know, I wonder what would have happened with more of a clear headed vision for all this, if that makes sense, you know, like I wonder if we would have started this having had full confidence in all the medical professionals and then saying Okay, let's build our plan around this now. I mean, you know, would we have been more comfortable and saying, you know, there's just not going to be uh, you know, football in right, right, So no football in would certainly have been the safest outcome, right. I. I was a little jarring to hear Alan Sills a couple weeks ago say there will be positive tests. It's just about having a protocol in place to contain them, because if you think about that, you think every positive test has a risk, and so who is you know, you're just hoping that the person who gets the positive test doesn't happen to fall into an at risk group, um, and that they'll be healthy enough to recover, which might be the case for a certain number of people in the NFL. But there are older coaches, there's older club employees, as we mentioned before, there's players with increased risk factors. So, um, I guess it's just wrapping your head around the fact that you're willingly participating in the sporting activity that will increase the risk before we've truly gotten it under control in our country. And I think a lot of the conversation over the last couple of months like to be fair, like everything they said was true, right, this is evolving, we're gaining new information, we're developing protocols on the fly, and I think all of that's true. And I think for the doctors to commit to a plan in April would have been difficult because it's a moving target. But yes, to your point, Connor, the safest plan would be to say no sports this year. But then that has an economic impact and everyone wants to get back to sports, and it's you know, it's a distraction, and so I think they're trying to balance those two ends of it, UM and also you know, of course, like the financial side of it always wins out. Yeah, you know what I would have done. I was thinking about this the other day, like what if in March everybody you know, freaked out when they saw the news, and Roger Goodell said, okay, full on Madden League for UM, and you know, we'll work out a financial sediment with the players, UM and make sure they have you know, they're taken care of, and every team gets to go out and they get to find a Madden guy, you know, and uh, we'll we'll do trades that cancel at the end of the season. You know, avoid at the end of the season and we'll make all these deals. And I think that would be like totally fascinating, like how teams would operate in like a one year window, completely void of like long term consequences, you know, and just you know, not count for anything. You don't have a Super Bowl or anything, but have Dave Caldwell and Bill O'Brien um and John Robinson, all running like a virtual football team but football League. I would watch that. I don't know. This is the second time in like three weeks on the MMQB podcast feed that a video game discussion has broken out, and I feel entirely ill equipped participate connor, So I don't really have a lot of good feedback to that idea. Well, I mean you can. I don't think you have to have ever played to know that. Basically, you know, Madden is just a simulation of real life, right, real life games, So you know, you play play all the games, you can make trades, you can do that, you know, all that kind of stuff. So I don't know. I mean, it would at least give us a little bit of a fix in two thousand two or two thousand three, I think e a sports came out with a supplementary football video game just called NFL Head Coach, where I don't think you played. You just called the plays and then watched what happens. There's no action actually taking place after you called it. I think there's a there's a certainly an interest in all the administrative portions of it. So or you know, choose a super fan and let him run the team for years something. I don't know, but I think it's gonna be better than like slamming this thing in uh at the beginning of November, when you know, we're still not sure if we're ready and we're gonna maybe get another clear window before flu season starts again, and it's like, I don't know, I mean, just something creative idea that would have at least given us a taste of of NFL familiarity and let us follow the schedule in the season, um without you know, I don't know, without all the gloominess that seems to have accompanied it. Well connor if nothing else, you always provide out of the box ideas. Sorry, I just had to get a little ribbon for you there, but but I think you you just hit on an interesting point too, is kind of what the timing is. And you know, Albert Brier had reported that some in the NFL wanted to delay the start for a month, but we've also seen other sports leagues say we want to wrap it up before there would be a second wave in the winter when things might be worthy. I don't I haven't read the studies clearly, and I don't want to misspeak on any of the science, but there was some indications that the cases right now weren't as bad. Whether that's the virus les virulent, or people are being exposed to lower concentrations of the virus because people are outside. I'm not sure everything, but one thing, you know, everyone seems to agree on is that being inside is worse than outside, and it's a lot easier to be outside in the summer, So there is some concern I think, you know, let's say you were to push the start of the season back a little bit, then you're ensuring that you're having more of the games or practices in this risk time period. It's also going to be interesting to see the interplay between the league and the union on this, because this is where college football players don't have the benefit of a union to bargain over their working conditions and to protect their rights. And we've seen them come together on their own and take some of that power. We certainly saw that a group of U c l A players coming together, and but they don't have a formalized structure in place to do that, where the NFL they have the union. And that's why I thought Tom mayor Steven was really notable basically saying like roll it back, like players don't have these small workouts. And I think to me that might have been the biggest alarm bell Connor because here's a medical professional who's advising the union on strategy, who's working with the NFL on strategy, and in June is saying that small g groups of player workouts are not a good idea and not to me was probably the most troubling development in terms of the progress toward a season. Yeah, it's a it's hard for me to believe that. You know, training camp theoretically is a month away, right, I mean, you know a month and a half away right there, and you know a lot changes certainly day to day. I mean, you know, we were, um, maybe go back two weeks, we were much more optimistic about the pace of the coronavirus than we were two months before that, and so in that time period a lot can change and shift. But at the same time, it's it's jarring to think that, you know, even these little workouts like you said, are breeding ground for passing this around. We still don't have a seen It's just like I don't know. I um, I don't know why, um we haven't And and you know it could be an emotional thing. I mean, you know, Roger Goodell has mentioned this time after time, and but you know, I just I don't understand why we can't just come out and and admit what we already know about this virus, you know what I mean. And and and it's and it's impact. I mean, we still have not had baseball, and baseball is so much more desperate than football, um to rekindling with viewership, you know, trying to get back into the national conversation as America's game, whatever you want to say. And and they're still not even close to returning to the field. And again we mentioned before some of that is is labor you know, union negotiating related. But I don't know. Just look at bars in Ireland. I don't think you're still open yet, you know. So it's like what, UM, I don't know, what are we waiting for before we just say, hey, guys, you know this is a tough one and uh, but we're gonna have to make this call at some point. Yeah. And it's weird to hear, you know, coaches being asked the questions and try to awagh and the best they can without actually knowing. Like I saw. John Harbaugh had a Zoom call earlier today on Monday, and he said that he's very hopeful that training camp in the NFL season will be on track. UM, and he said he doesn't think the NFL is going to run for cover. UM, but right, what are your choices here? You know, what's well, you know, it's not a question of choosing to run for cover or not. It's a question of what's safe or not. And so I think it's also hard for people to weigh in because they don't exactly, uh know for sure what will make sense, What is going to make sense. I've been wondering about, you know, our role in all this. UM. You know, we've said earlier in UM a couple episodes ago that I would highly doubt that any of US interview a player in person this year. Um, you know that seems highly unlikely. Um. I saw a couple of our colleagues had covered the Belmont Steaks um from the press conference from the press box area. UM, but uh, you know the stars of that sport our horses. So you know, there's really not like a lot we can learn from that process. But you know, I don't know. It's I think it's going to fundamentally, you know, change everything. And I think that the sooner that we prepare for a season that is either non existent, are far different than we expected it to be. I think the better it's gonna be. I think just pushing the that, you know, keeping that carrot at the end of the string and saying, I know we're gonna have football. I know we're gonna have football on September. You know whatever. It's just not I think healthy or realistic for anybody right now. There's and there's so many people at stake. You know. I did a story a couple of months ago on all the NFL super fans, Um that you know, their identities are wrapped around being at these aims every Sunday. UM. And I think the mental aspect of that. And it's not just them, the super fans, it's everybody. There are people that I've talked to that that's when they see their families every week, or whatever it is that congregating at this stadium means to you, that's your way to release your energy after a stressful work week, whatever it is. I mean, allowing people to think that that is still going to happen and that we're going to be here for you is ludicrous and irresponsible in my mind. I mean, it's just not it's not it's not the smart or right thing to do. And I thought that's why the Giants approach, I think is a really good one. I don't know how many teams are following suit. I certainly know there are others who are not following suit. And I've talked to season ticket holders who have felt stressed about their ability to make the payments. A lot of people are out of work. But you have had seats for X number of years, and they're really good seats, and you don't want to give them up, right, And so I think the policy of just being able to give them up for and then pick up as if that never happened. I think that's a really great one, right, you give the tickets back. Um, you're not asking people to make a financial commitment. That would be an extra strain. But you're also and you're also honoring the fact that they may have been a longtime supporter of the team but just can't make the payment this year in a global pandemic that is unlike anything we've seen. So uh, I think that was a really good move and I hope other teams mirror that. Connor, Yeah, UM, I don't know, would you, Um, let's say, uh, the NFL gave us the keys to a virtual franchise for the season. Would you like to, like we could run a team together. I think that would be fun. Maybe we should build a simulation. I like that. I think there's somebody. Um, I'm an Orioles fan. I like the Baltimore o reals. Um, and there are people who are actively simulating the baseball season as if it were taking place, um a normal And you know, I saw a tweet before I started the show that they had beat the Yankees last night, And you know it's weird like that small little just like little pop of like oh nice that you get from that. Um. Even though it's you know, it's not real and it's in a computer and all that kind of stuff. But I don't know. I'm hoping that somebody gets fun and creative with uh this because I do think that. Uh I don't know, as I'm sitting here right now Monday to forty p m. June. Uh do I think that we're gonna be covering kick Off the second week of September. No way, zero chance, like I and I feel you know, that's just me saying that from what I feel in my heart right now, but I think there's a zero percent chance that's happening. I I feel skeptical as well. I'm also not sure that will attend a game in if there are games, I am not sure that we will be permitted. I know they're working on protocols to open up the press box to a certain number of people and have everyone distance, but what would look like and then you know, we know how post games are Connor it's very cramped. The press conference room is cramped. The locker room. We will not be in the locker room in that much is certain. There's no way that any media availability will go on inside a locker room. And I agree Connor, It's unlikely that we would interview somebody in person unless it was like a one on one setting in a socially distanced way, you know, for something special, I think, But um yeah, it's it's for all aspects related to the NFL, all jobs related to the NFL in any capacity. It's really hard to wrap your head around what, you know, your job or your life would look like three months from now. That's why I write about video games. Now. That's uh, I like it. It's a good beat, it's resistant to the pandemic. So really, I mean, you're leaning in at a good time. Connor, Yeah, you know, uh, you know it. Well, you know, what are you gonna do? Um I um, I think back to you know some of the more crowded press boxes is that we've covered games in together. Baltimore comes to Baltimore. Oh my gosh, Baltimore in the playoffs, the first round of the playoffs when they I was literally touching shoulders to the people next to me. Charlotte Walder was on one side. John Crick, who works in Toronto was on the other. We were literally touching shoulders because everyone was so jammed in. And then the year before that when they lost to the Chargers. I think we were next to each other and similarly cramped um our routine, you know on the Jets, be together, be to watch the end of Face the Nation every Sunday, and then when it turns over to the CBS, pregame. Uh, just all cramped together and you're hoping that your notes don't spill over and take up too much of anybody else's space. Different world now, I mean our our our routines are gonna be different. We're gonna have to find a way to uh, socially virtually simulate the the experience. I'll get a bad cup of coffee and I'll zoom you during NFL Sunday. I think, if if God willing, it happens some greasy halftime food. And you know, there's a lot of ways to make make your apartment freezing cold. A lot of press boxes are freezing cold, which which makes sense in fairness because there's a lot of like equipment and it can't overheat. But Giants, Jets Met Life Stadium notoriously cold. I'm gonna have I think you know your body, you know, your brain relies on patterns, or so I'm told, and you know, I can just imagine that first Sunday morning of NFL season, just that craving for um, like uh, continental breakfast eggs and sausage and you know, and bagels like you get at the press box in the morning, and you're just like, I don't know, I'm gonna have to I have to plan ahead, you know, another there's another wave of this and the grocery stores become combative again. I'm gonna have to get out there and I'm gonna have to get my powdered eggs and don't have to get my breakfast sausage, and you know, just I'm gonna have to be prepared for this because I'm you know, I'm not prepared for that. So I don't know, it's always the powdered eggs, always even you know what though, I found that, um, and we're really off the rails here, But that's okay. UM, I think people need to hear something. Yeah, Monday or Tuesday, I guess entertainment, Um, is that the best way to mask powdered eggs in general? UM. My friend taught me this. He was made it as a breakfast sandwich at a place where he used to live in Boston, and you put the cream cheese on both sides of the bagel, and then you smash in whatever eggs and breakfast meat you can get, and the cream cheese actually, surprisingly like works well with everything you don't. It adds like a sturdiness to the unsturdy powdered eggs, and you kind of feel like it's more of a I don't know, more of a palatable sandwich or more of a palatable dish. I don't know, Connor, that sounds terrible. I'm just gonna be honest. With cream cheese and powder days, that doesn't sound like something i'd like to eat for breakfast, are you? Um uh? While we're on the subjects, and since our our readers our listeners do seem to care deeply, do you have any good um, any good quarantine dinners? Either take out or something you're going to create in your house? Um, that's going that you're looking forward to? Um? Good question. Um. My best meal in the last week or so is just a taco night. That was a good one. Um, But I don't have anything planned. I made brownies last night, But I mean I'm kind of cycling through all the same meals I don't know how you are connor. I mean, I know some restaurants are opening up, but I haven't really ordered in. So I've just been cooking at home and I've I've had roasted carrots more times than I can count during quarantine, a lot of beta carotene or what. That's great. Um, I'm gonna make I think I think I'm gonna make like a like a marinated flank steak. Um our neighbors, I've been talking a lot. We We've done some social distance barbecuing where we'll kind of all make something and we'll bring it to a table that's in the middle of the three houses and then everyone can take their turns kind of getting the food and and then going to their own like corner where we can shout at each other and uh, you know so, but I think I'm gonna really, um really try to up my game. You know. I did like a marinated chicken, but it was a bottled marinade. And so like, I think I'm gonna really go for it, um with like some sort of marinated flank steak, and I'm gonna make some you know, get some cilantro and some hal panos and make like a make your own taco station. I think, um, yeah, just you know anything. I think, you know, if I can get amped up about like a dinner at the beginning of on like Saturday, on Monday, I think I'm doing a good job. You know. That sounds yeah, that sounds really yummy. Connor, we really up upping my lame taco night, which was like ground turkey almond flower tortillas, you know, pretty lame and boring. Also, the downside of like living alone is that like whatever I make, I have to eat for four days essentially. So that's been a really unfortunate like part of I mean, it's an important, unfortunate part of cooking for one anyway. But like I just get sick of meals because I had so I just had four straight nights of asparagus, roasted chicken, and roasted carrots. So I'm looking on to the next thing. Right now, We're on, We're onto, We're onto roasted cauliflower. That's right, Connor, that's a good note to end it on. I absolutely, And we'll get back to some more mail bags later this summer. So we've been seeing the messages come in at week Side Pod at Gmail dot com, so please continue to drop us a note there. The mm QB week Side pod castes meet Jenny Rernis and Connor or. We are produced by Shelby Royston. 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Okay, guys, weeks side podcast time, Jenny and I back I being Connor or thanks for joining us. Um, We're going to do a little bit of a shorter podcast today, but just talk about something that I think has been lurking in the background a little bit. Um. I was on a call last week for the announcement of the new Hard Knocks, and while it was fun, I think to talk about you know, um, Anthony Lynn saying that Melvin Ingram is going to be a breakout star and he's gonna make us laugh this uh this offseason and he's gonna be funny during training camp, there was that underbelly of a lot of the questions that were fielded I think by the Hard Knocks people, and that you know, how the hell do we know any of this is happening? You know, what degree of certainty does anybody have that um, training camp is going to start on time, that it's a good idea to have a film crew there. Um, you know, uh, you know, blah blah blah. There's ethical questions about showing coronavirus testing and all that other stuff, But UM, I don't know, Jenny, I mean, it's just sort of sometimes the tea leaves sort of point you in a certain direction. I know, before we started recording, um, we saw that the Giants had sent out an email the season ticket holders saying, if you don't buy season tickets this year, that's fine. You can still get back in the line next year and and hold your PSL and and do all that kind of stuff. Baseball is struggling, and while a lot of that's labor related, I mean, the camps had to close because of you know, covid um. Basketball is you know, on shaky ground right now. I don't know where our optimism is coming from with football, and I'm a little bit worried that we're all just assuming this thing is gonna is gonna start um and there's a second wave potentially coming here. I don't know. I don't want to sound like a worry warts, which I've been accused of in the past. My uh uh, people call me chicken little. They make fun of me, and they call me chicken little. But um, but I would say that I don't know. I mean, this feels like not good, right, I mean, like none of this feels like we're heading in the right direction for football to start on time. Yeah, I feel like the last week or so there were a lot of troubling developments, and in the middle of that, the NFL p a S medical director Tom Mayor wrote a statement that they published. It said to all players, please be advised that it is our consensus medical opinion that in light of the increase in COVID nineteen cases in certain states, that no players should be engaged in practicing together in private workouts. Our goal is to have all players and your families as healthy as possible in the coming months. And so as we've seen, this has been a common phenomenon across the country with small group workouts. There was a group of forty niners in the Nashville area. We obviously saw Tom Brady with a group in Tampa Bay, Matt Ryan, Philip Rivers, Josh Allen, the list goes on. So players and teams have kind of been moving to this moderated offseason and model where the players kind of got together on their own, and now the union is saying to pull back on that. So I think that the increase in several cases, as as Tom Mayor noted, and the on college campuses as athletes have returned, the uptick in cases their small outbreaks. You know. I think there was some question of like what what would be the cause to kind of get a team to pull back because Alan Stills, the NFL's medical director, had said there will be positive cases, but the question is kind of containing those and making sure it doesn't spread. But now we have clumps of players, you know, more than a dozen college players testing positive for COVID, and that would be enough to shut things down. So I think we it was kind of a sobering reminder that there's still a lot of cases out in in our country and we're seeing this increase again and probably need to slow things down a little bit. Yeah. I mean that to me is you know, we've, um, we've talked a lot on this show about kind of how the NFL has felt it's been important to just sort of plow ahead, um, you know, and to keep everything on schedule. I think that while there's you know, some financial, you know, reasons for doing that as well, they did sort of out themselves as as this group of people that were helping everybody get through a hard time and everything like that. But I I wonder when the real discussions are really going to happen and not only that, but you know, but they are going to spill out into the public and I know that, you know, we the doctors are saying all this, you know, but when are you know, when is everybody going to come to grips with this? I mean that that to me is just sort of the hard thing to stomach is that, I don't know, I just always see the NFL kind of just going la la la, you know, while the rest of the country is actually dealing with these problems head on. You know, how do they address that on the Hard Knocks call Connor Because obviously, from where we sit, media access during training camp is a big question mark right now. Who will be allowed at practice? How many reporters would you even be able to do a training camp trip? Just a staple of you know, the national media summer essentially, but Hard Knocks takes place in camp or not very far away from when they would start filming for that. Yeah. Um, you know there was after the call I did see um you know, uh, Buddy Baker, who's an agent who has represented guys like Shaquille Griffin. Um, you know, Doug Baldwin was incensed at the idea of having Hard Knocks. Um from an agent's perspective, because he's saying, you know, that's another extra. However, many people that are following these guys around with cameras and you know, you're just making a bigger risk. Um. And on the call, I mean, the vibe just seemed like, well, we're taking our que from the people that are, you know, from the powers that be. We're taking our que from them, and we're gonna follow all the guidelines and the protocols. And it's like, but but what are the guidelines? What are the protocols? You know, when is all this stuff going to be decided? And has anybody else taken a look around at the rest of the world and said, oh wow, the two or three states that tried to open up fully are really getting hammered right now and we should probably be a little bit more concerned about this. And I don't know, I'm I'm concerned about it for a lot of reasons. I'm concerned about it because I think that fans see this as a light at the end of a long tunnel, uh, you know, and I'm concerned that um, you know, players, their families, everybody. I mean, this is just this is not a good thing. I think to just continue to kick the can down the road. I mean, I would like to see Roger Goodell or somebody come out and acknowledge the fact that, like, hey, this this is still going on here, and let's let's start acting like it. Yeah, And I think what you just referenced there is really important. Connor is that they're certainly players who will be in high risk groups, players who may have some kind of immuno compensation compromisation. Um. Higher body weight is a risk factor. Sleep apnea is often common in NFL players, especially ones who weigh more. So I think that one really important thing to keep in mind is that there's going to be groups of the NFL player population that are higher risk for CODE. So we're seeing, Okay, well, there's positive tests and it's because the increase of testing, and most of these players are asymptomatic. But there's going to be players in the population who would not handle a positive tests as well. They would have more symptoms and they could have complicating factors that put them more at risk. And then the other thing is players don't live alone. They have families. They have wives, partners, children, extended families. Some might have parents living with them, and so the idea that you could containing the risk to them and their loved ones when they're going to and from you know, practice situation a game situation, it's just not realistic. And the bubble model is not realistic for other reasons. I know that the the n b A, that's you know, their approach, but so it just feels like there's not really a great situation. And I think we're kind of thinking, we're kind of feeling okay, oh, things are calming down, Like the NFL League office right we saw you know, employees posting that they were headed back to work today because things seem a little bit more under control in New York. And so I think it's easy to say, like, hey, we've been in our bubble. Everything looks like we're returning to some normal aspects of life. But then you think about the reality of actually like playing football contact sport with teams from different parts of the country, and it's really hard to wrap your head around that how that would work, which I think is what Sean McVeigh said on that Hard Knocks call Connor right. So, I think the context free version of the out um looked a lot more damning. I think than it actually was what Sean McVeigh. I mean, what he was saying was ingest, but at the same time, I think was a real thought in that. You know, he just said, I don't know how we're going to do this football was social distancing, you know, and uh he said it more as a crack to um Anthony Lynn, the Chargers coach, who was also on the call, But um, yeah, I mean I think that that sentiment is something that we've all felt and uh, let's need The Rams general manager made a joke on the call that said, well, you know, have you ever seen how they played football in the Big twelve. They've been social distancing for the last like two or three years ha ha ha um because their linemen have really wide splits and and all that stuff. But um, but yeah, I mean I think that what Sean McVeigh said perfectly captured everything. You know. It was just like, I don't know how we're going to do this, And I think that there was a little bit of honesty there. I mean, everybody had time to come up with a game plan and to come up with exercises and drills and all this stuff that you can do, but the facilities aren't equipped to have people six ft apart in these meetings and you know, all this stuff, and I think it's everybody is still digesting the overwhelming magnitude of this situation, and I just, um, I don't know, I don't it's not getting better. I mean, you know, you can whatever your new source of choices. You know, the New York Times has a handy graphic every day that says cases are rising in pupa, upa, and cases are falling in bupah blah blah. Look at those and look at how many states cases arising? And do those states have NFL teams? Yes, you know, And I don't know. So that's uh, that's I don't know. That's where we are right now. Yeah, they're definitely going to be some difficult ethical conversations, some difficult logistical conversations, all of the above ahead. You know, my parents live in State College, Pennsylvania, and we were talking out this. You know, it's a pretty small, isolated community, you know, rural area, not a lot of through through traffic, right, you kind of have to pick going to State College to go there. Um, and the football players are returning to workouts and you know, I guess you can isolate, you know, for two weeks in a dorm, but then what happens like when the students come back. And I know this is a little tangential question that's not specifically related to the NFL, but they're planning to have classes in the fall. So what does that mean when forty students come to campus and you can't really quarantine them all for two weeks or at least there it doesn't seem to be a plan to do so. Um and some live off campus, some live on campus, very different situations and things can all go awry with one night out right. So that's what I think is pretty scary about all of this is that you know, you can have all these protocols in place, but people are still having lives away from the practice facility or away from school or whatever situation you're talking about, and can't control people's activities. And then you just increase the chances that if we still have a the number of cases of COVID in our country, like if there's still enough active cases in our country that can spread. Yeah, I think back to the beginning when all this started, and you know, we've talked on this show a lot about UM, how people's decision making processes have changed over the years to the point now where it's all shamelessly about UM. You know, that effort to keep that whatever you have good going right. And you know what would have happened if we had sort of real leadership at any of the sports levels. And you know, credit to the NBA certainly for recognizing it at the time UM that it happened. They were maybe the entity that woke the world old up to UM the seriousness of what was going on. But I always wondered, you know, what the NFL could have done if they had taken this headstart that they were given and applied you know, some logic to it, listened to the doctors who have been saying the same things that they've been saying, UM since this started, that there's gonna be an uptick in cases that when you open things up again, there's going to be problems all this stuff. And you know, I wonder what would have happened with more of a clear headed vision for all this, if that makes sense, you know, like I wonder if we would have started this having had full confidence in all the medical professionals and then saying Okay, let's build our plan around this now. I mean, you know, would we have been more comfortable and saying, you know, there's just not going to be uh, you know, football in right, right, So no football in would certainly have been the safest outcome, right. I. I was a little jarring to hear Alan Sills a couple weeks ago say there will be positive tests. It's just about having a protocol in place to contain them, because if you think about that, you think every positive test has a risk, and so who is you know, you're just hoping that the person who gets the positive test doesn't happen to fall into an at risk group, um, and that they'll be healthy enough to recover, which might be the case for a certain number of people in the NFL. But there are older coaches, there's older club employees, as we mentioned before, there's players with increased risk factors. So, um, I guess it's just wrapping your head around the fact that you're willingly participating in the sporting activity that will increase the risk before we've truly gotten it under control in our country. And I think a lot of the conversation over the last couple of months like to be fair, like everything they said was true, right, this is evolving, we're gaining new information, we're developing protocols on the fly, and I think all of that's true. And I think for the doctors to commit to a plan in April would have been difficult because it's a moving target. But yes, to your point, Connor, the safest plan would be to say no sports this year. But then that has an economic impact and everyone wants to get back to sports, and it's you know, it's a distraction, and so I think they're trying to balance those two ends of it, UM and also you know, of course, like the financial side of it always wins out. Yeah, you know what I would have done. I was thinking about this the other day, like what if in March everybody you know, freaked out when they saw the news, and Roger Goodell said, okay, full on Madden League for UM, and you know, we'll work out a financial sediment with the players, UM and make sure they have you know, they're taken care of, and every team gets to go out and they get to find a Madden guy, you know, and uh, we'll we'll do trades that cancel at the end of the season. You know, avoid at the end of the season and we'll make all these deals. And I think that would be like totally fascinating, like how teams would operate in like a one year window, completely void of like long term consequences, you know, and just you know, not count for anything. You don't have a Super Bowl or anything, but have Dave Caldwell and Bill O'Brien um and John Robinson, all running like a virtual football team but football League. I would watch that. I don't know. This is the second time in like three weeks on the MMQB podcast feed that a video game discussion has broken out, and I feel entirely ill equipped participate connor, So I don't really have a lot of good feedback to that idea. Well, I mean you can. I don't think you have to have ever played to know that. Basically, you know, Madden is just a simulation of real life, right, real life games, So you know, you play play all the games, you can make trades, you can do that, you know, all that kind of stuff. So I don't know. I mean, it would at least give us a little bit of a fix in two thousand two or two thousand three, I think e a sports came out with a supplementary football video game just called NFL Head Coach, where I don't think you played. You just called the plays and then watched what happens. There's no action actually taking place after you called it. I think there's a there's a certainly an interest in all the administrative portions of it. So or you know, choose a super fan and let him run the team for years something. I don't know, but I think it's gonna be better than like slamming this thing in uh at the beginning of November, when you know, we're still not sure if we're ready and we're gonna maybe get another clear window before flu season starts again, and it's like, I don't know, I mean, just something creative idea that would have at least given us a taste of of NFL familiarity and let us follow the schedule in the season, um without you know, I don't know, without all the gloominess that seems to have accompanied it. Well connor if nothing else, you always provide out of the box ideas. Sorry, I just had to get a little ribbon for you there, but but I think you you just hit on an interesting point too, is kind of what the timing is. And you know, Albert Brier had reported that some in the NFL wanted to delay the start for a month, but we've also seen other sports leagues say we want to wrap it up before there would be a second wave in the winter when things might be worthy. I don't I haven't read the studies clearly, and I don't want to misspeak on any of the science, but there was some indications that the cases right now weren't as bad. Whether that's the virus les virulent, or people are being exposed to lower concentrations of the virus because people are outside. I'm not sure everything, but one thing, you know, everyone seems to agree on is that being inside is worse than outside, and it's a lot easier to be outside in the summer, So there is some concern I think, you know, let's say you were to push the start of the season back a little bit, then you're ensuring that you're having more of the games or practices in this risk time period. It's also going to be interesting to see the interplay between the league and the union on this, because this is where college football players don't have the benefit of a union to bargain over their working conditions and to protect their rights. And we've seen them come together on their own and take some of that power. We certainly saw that a group of U c l A players coming together, and but they don't have a formalized structure in place to do that, where the NFL they have the union. And that's why I thought Tom mayor Steven was really notable basically saying like roll it back, like players don't have these small workouts. And I think to me that might have been the biggest alarm bell Connor because here's a medical professional who's advising the union on strategy, who's working with the NFL on strategy, and in June is saying that small g groups of player workouts are not a good idea and not to me was probably the most troubling development in terms of the progress toward a season. Yeah, it's a it's hard for me to believe that. You know, training camp theoretically is a month away, right, I mean, you know a month and a half away right there, and you know a lot changes certainly day to day. I mean, you know, we were, um, maybe go back two weeks, we were much more optimistic about the pace of the coronavirus than we were two months before that, and so in that time period a lot can change and shift. But at the same time, it's it's jarring to think that, you know, even these little workouts like you said, are breeding ground for passing this around. We still don't have a seen It's just like I don't know. I um, I don't know why, um we haven't And and you know it could be an emotional thing. I mean, you know, Roger Goodell has mentioned this time after time, and but you know, I just I don't understand why we can't just come out and and admit what we already know about this virus, you know what I mean. And and and it's and it's impact. I mean, we still have not had baseball, and baseball is so much more desperate than football, um to rekindling with viewership, you know, trying to get back into the national conversation as America's game, whatever you want to say. And and they're still not even close to returning to the field. And again we mentioned before some of that is is labor you know, union negotiating related. But I don't know. Just look at bars in Ireland. I don't think you're still open yet, you know. So it's like what, UM, I don't know, what are we waiting for before we just say, hey, guys, you know this is a tough one and uh, but we're gonna have to make this call at some point. Yeah. And it's weird to hear, you know, coaches being asked the questions and try to awagh and the best they can without actually knowing. Like I saw. John Harbaugh had a Zoom call earlier today on Monday, and he said that he's very hopeful that training camp in the NFL season will be on track. UM, and he said he doesn't think the NFL is going to run for cover. UM, but right, what are your choices here? You know, what's well, you know, it's not a question of choosing to run for cover or not. It's a question of what's safe or not. And so I think it's also hard for people to weigh in because they don't exactly, uh know for sure what will make sense, What is going to make sense. I've been wondering about, you know, our role in all this. UM. You know, we've said earlier in UM a couple episodes ago that I would highly doubt that any of US interview a player in person this year. Um, you know that seems highly unlikely. Um. I saw a couple of our colleagues had covered the Belmont Steaks um from the press conference from the press box area. UM, but uh, you know the stars of that sport our horses. So you know, there's really not like a lot we can learn from that process. But you know, I don't know. It's I think it's going to fundamentally, you know, change everything. And I think that the sooner that we prepare for a season that is either non existent, are far different than we expected it to be. I think the better it's gonna be. I think just pushing the that, you know, keeping that carrot at the end of the string and saying, I know we're gonna have football. I know we're gonna have football on September. You know whatever. It's just not I think healthy or realistic for anybody right now. There's and there's so many people at stake. You know. I did a story a couple of months ago on all the NFL super fans, Um that you know, their identities are wrapped around being at these aims every Sunday. UM. And I think the mental aspect of that. And it's not just them, the super fans, it's everybody. There are people that I've talked to that that's when they see their families every week, or whatever it is that congregating at this stadium means to you, that's your way to release your energy after a stressful work week, whatever it is. I mean, allowing people to think that that is still going to happen and that we're going to be here for you is ludicrous and irresponsible in my mind. I mean, it's just not it's not it's not the smart or right thing to do. And I thought that's why the Giants approach, I think is a really good one. I don't know how many teams are following suit. I certainly know there are others who are not following suit. And I've talked to season ticket holders who have felt stressed about their ability to make the payments. A lot of people are out of work. But you have had seats for X number of years, and they're really good seats, and you don't want to give them up, right, And so I think the policy of just being able to give them up for and then pick up as if that never happened. I think that's a really great one, right, you give the tickets back. Um, you're not asking people to make a financial commitment. That would be an extra strain. But you're also and you're also honoring the fact that they may have been a longtime supporter of the team but just can't make the payment this year in a global pandemic that is unlike anything we've seen. So uh, I think that was a really good move and I hope other teams mirror that. Connor, Yeah, UM, I don't know, would you, Um, let's say, uh, the NFL gave us the keys to a virtual franchise for the season. Would you like to, like we could run a team together. I think that would be fun. Maybe we should build a simulation. I like that. I think there's somebody. Um, I'm an Orioles fan. I like the Baltimore o reals. Um, and there are people who are actively simulating the baseball season as if it were taking place, um a normal And you know, I saw a tweet before I started the show that they had beat the Yankees last night, And you know it's weird like that small little just like little pop of like oh nice that you get from that. Um. Even though it's you know, it's not real and it's in a computer and all that kind of stuff. But I don't know. I'm hoping that somebody gets fun and creative with uh this because I do think that. Uh I don't know, as I'm sitting here right now Monday to forty p m. June. Uh do I think that we're gonna be covering kick Off the second week of September. No way, zero chance, like I and I feel you know, that's just me saying that from what I feel in my heart right now, but I think there's a zero percent chance that's happening. I I feel skeptical as well. I'm also not sure that will attend a game in if there are games, I am not sure that we will be permitted. I know they're working on protocols to open up the press box to a certain number of people and have everyone distance, but what would look like and then you know, we know how post games are Connor it's very cramped. The press conference room is cramped. The locker room. We will not be in the locker room in that much is certain. There's no way that any media availability will go on inside a locker room. And I agree Connor, It's unlikely that we would interview somebody in person unless it was like a one on one setting in a socially distanced way, you know, for something special, I think, But um yeah, it's it's for all aspects related to the NFL, all jobs related to the NFL in any capacity. It's really hard to wrap your head around what, you know, your job or your life would look like three months from now. That's why I write about video games. Now. That's uh, I like it. It's a good beat, it's resistant to the pandemic. So really, I mean, you're leaning in at a good time. Connor, Yeah, you know, uh, you know it. Well, you know, what are you gonna do? Um I um, I think back to you know some of the more crowded press boxes is that we've covered games in together. Baltimore comes to Baltimore. Oh my gosh, Baltimore in the playoffs, the first round of the playoffs when they I was literally touching shoulders to the people next to me. Charlotte Walder was on one side. John Crick, who works in Toronto was on the other. We were literally touching shoulders because everyone was so jammed in. And then the year before that when they lost to the Chargers. I think we were next to each other and similarly cramped um our routine, you know on the Jets, be together, be to watch the end of Face the Nation every Sunday, and then when it turns over to the CBS, pregame. Uh, just all cramped together and you're hoping that your notes don't spill over and take up too much of anybody else's space. Different world now, I mean our our our routines are gonna be different. We're gonna have to find a way to uh, socially virtually simulate the the experience. I'll get a bad cup of coffee and I'll zoom you during NFL Sunday. I think, if if God willing, it happens some greasy halftime food. And you know, there's a lot of ways to make make your apartment freezing cold. A lot of press boxes are freezing cold, which which makes sense in fairness because there's a lot of like equipment and it can't overheat. But Giants, Jets Met Life Stadium notoriously cold. I'm gonna have I think you know your body, you know, your brain relies on patterns, or so I'm told, and you know, I can just imagine that first Sunday morning of NFL season, just that craving for um, like uh, continental breakfast eggs and sausage and you know, and bagels like you get at the press box in the morning, and you're just like, I don't know, I'm gonna have to I have to plan ahead, you know, another there's another wave of this and the grocery stores become combative again. I'm gonna have to get out there and I'm gonna have to get my powdered eggs and don't have to get my breakfast sausage, and you know, just I'm gonna have to be prepared for this because I'm you know, I'm not prepared for that. So I don't know, it's always the powdered eggs, always even you know what though, I found that, um, and we're really off the rails here, But that's okay. UM, I think people need to hear something. Yeah, Monday or Tuesday, I guess entertainment, Um, is that the best way to mask powdered eggs in general? UM. My friend taught me this. He was made it as a breakfast sandwich at a place where he used to live in Boston, and you put the cream cheese on both sides of the bagel, and then you smash in whatever eggs and breakfast meat you can get, and the cream cheese actually, surprisingly like works well with everything you don't. It adds like a sturdiness to the unsturdy powdered eggs, and you kind of feel like it's more of a I don't know, more of a palatable sandwich or more of a palatable dish. I don't know, Connor, that sounds terrible. I'm just gonna be honest. With cream cheese and powder days, that doesn't sound like something i'd like to eat for breakfast, are you? Um uh? While we're on the subjects, and since our our readers our listeners do seem to care deeply, do you have any good um, any good quarantine dinners? Either take out or something you're going to create in your house? Um, that's going that you're looking forward to? Um? Good question. Um. My best meal in the last week or so is just a taco night. That was a good one. Um, But I don't have anything planned. I made brownies last night, But I mean I'm kind of cycling through all the same meals I don't know how you are connor. I mean, I know some restaurants are opening up, but I haven't really ordered in. So I've just been cooking at home and I've I've had roasted carrots more times than I can count during quarantine, a lot of beta carotene or what. That's great. Um, I'm gonna make I think I think I'm gonna make like a like a marinated flank steak. Um our neighbors, I've been talking a lot. We We've done some social distance barbecuing where we'll kind of all make something and we'll bring it to a table that's in the middle of the three houses and then everyone can take their turns kind of getting the food and and then going to their own like corner where we can shout at each other and uh, you know so, but I think I'm gonna really, um really try to up my game. You know. I did like a marinated chicken, but it was a bottled marinade. And so like, I think I'm gonna really go for it, um with like some sort of marinated flank steak, and I'm gonna make some you know, get some cilantro and some hal panos and make like a make your own taco station. I think, um, yeah, just you know anything. I think, you know, if I can get amped up about like a dinner at the beginning of on like Saturday, on Monday, I think I'm doing a good job. You know. That sounds yeah, that sounds really yummy. Connor, we really up upping my lame taco night, which was like ground turkey almond flower tortillas, you know, pretty lame and boring. Also, the downside of like living alone is that like whatever I make, I have to eat for four days essentially. So that's been a really unfortunate like part of I mean, it's an important, unfortunate part of cooking for one anyway. But like I just get sick of meals because I had so I just had four straight nights of asparagus, roasted chicken, and roasted carrots. So I'm looking on to the next thing. Right now, We're on, We're onto, We're onto roasted cauliflower. That's right, Connor, that's a good note to end it on. I absolutely, And we'll get back to some more mail bags later this summer. So we've been seeing the messages come in at week Side Pod at Gmail dot com, so please continue to drop us a note there. The mm QB week Side pod castes meet Jenny Rernis and Connor or. We are produced by Shelby Royston. Size Executive producer of podcasts is Scott Brody, Ben Eagles, Director of Editorial Projects and product Mark Mrivik is emeritus executive director of the mm QB. Keep up with our entire lineup of podcasts five days a week by subscribing to the MMQB NFL Podcasts for free on Apple Podcasts, and while you're there, please do us a favor and leave a rating and review. It really does help other people find the show, which is also available on Spotify, Radio dot Com, Stitcher, s i dot com, and wherever else you listen to podcasts,