Resolving Aaron Rodgers and Jordan Love: The Game Show | NFL Deep Dive

Published Jun 14, 2021, 8:00 AM

Jenny, Conor and Gary—again, and surely not for the last time—revisit Aaron Rodgers in light of his holdout from OTAs. A discussion of the possible outcomes if the GM isn't going anywhere, and what the Packers need to do to get this resolved.

Then, the new game show that's basically on the verge of sweeping the nation: Four blind items about NFL quarterbacks when they were young, and what people wrote about them. It's Jenny vs. Conor, winner takes all. (All of what? We're not sure yet.)

And, finally but most importantly, a discussion on the state of vaccinations around the league, and why it's so disheartening.

Have a question for a future mailbag? Email themmqb@gmail.com

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Hello, and welcome to the mm QB Monday Morning NFL Podcast. I'm Gary Gramling, I'm Jenny Frentis, I'm Connor Orr, and we are going to have a little game a little bit later in the show. Jordan Love related. I mean, if that doesn't get you sticking around, I don't know what will. We're also going to have a discussion about some of the vaccination rate talk going around the league right now and some of the consequences of it and basically why it is unfolding the way it is in certain franchises. But we are starting with part seven of our twelve thousand part series on Aaron Rodgers and his holdout in Green Bay. And uh, I mean, look, this was not unexpected. It was not a huge development this week that he didn't show up to OTAs, But I guess in a way it just kind of made it a little more real. Yeah, I just I still don't really understand, and I don't think anybody well correct me if I'm wrong. We still don't really understand what he wants, right, Like, because every time that you're seeing a piece of information filter out, it's like, well, he still loves his teammates, he still loves the fans, He still loves basically everything except for Brian Guda Kuntz, the general manager. And so what are you hoping happens? Like, do you need the Packers to fire Brian gudacunts in order for you to walk across that threshold? And do you think that you're going to be able to scare him to the point where you know is are you really going to make him think that you're willing to sit out your what age thirty seven season at the end of your athletic prime and squander what could be one of the last great years of your career just because you don't like the general manager, who, if you try hard enough, you probably don't have to see for an entire season if you don't want to. Yeah, And Mark Murphy in a Q and A on the Packers website made clear that he stands firmly behind Brian gudekinst that he has great confidence in him that he's the right person to continue building the roster moving forward. So it doesn't seem like the Packers are moving on that front. So to your point, Connor, Okay, so if that's not negotiable, then what else is? Is it just the contract. Is there something else that he needs? What can repair things from this point on? Obviously he has the support from his teammates. You know, Davante Adams came out with a pretty strong statement for Rogers while he's away, and I would like to add that I don't know if you guys happen to follow the fantastic gossip account on Instagram called domoas and it's generally celeb gossip, but there is some crossover with athletes at times, and especially because Aaron Rodgers is engaged to Selene Woodley, Doumap reported that they have bought homes and not only Hawaii but also Colorado. Just wanted to throw that out there and give a little nod to this fantastic Instagram page. Nice little pop for doom wat. Yeah it is, it is. Yeah. I guess that's the one thing that kind of holds me up is this whole thought that he wants to go play on the West Coast because it's you know, close to Hollywood, et cetera. Sarah, I don't know, if you're Aaron Rodgers, like you can travel the country as freely as you'd like. I mean, you you can take your private jet out to Los Angeles, and I guess it's a slight hassle because it takes you three or four hours to get out there. But it's not like one of us saying, uh, you know where wherever, wherever we work is where we are. We are going to be in our basement in that in that town or city, and that is our life. But he can be a little more mobile, and especially during the off season as we as we saw last year. I mean he can very easily. He and Matt Laflour can get this thing ironed out over zoom calls like they did a year ago before his MVP season. Yeah, it's not like Aaron is like fumbling through the Milwaukee airport trying to get like a bag of combos at the CNBC store. And it's not like, you know, he has a private jet. There's somebody that'll pick him up if he gets the Jeopardy job. I'm sure that they can arrange for all this sort of you know, corporate travel extravaganza. And to me, that is the weakness in his case and has been all long, right, is okay, what are you going to do about it? If we don't fire the general manager, like what's your plan is to go host Jeopardy. That's fine. So that's forty of your next three hundred and sixty five days or accounted for. And that's ten of the forty million dollars that you're making accounted for. What else are you doing with that time? You know, are you going to just keep going on Pat McAfee's podcast and giving us the middle finger week after week? Okay? I mean, if that's their plan, then that's your plan. But otherwise I don't really see a whole lot of ammunition there. And what's interesting to me is I've almost kind of viewed it a little bit as cutting off your nose despite your face, right because regardless, and I'm not saying Jordan Love is replacing him at any point in time, but Jordan Love is getting all the reps, so he's becoming a better quarterback. He's closing the monumental gap between the two to the point where, you know, I think that you could probably get to the point where you could win with Jordan Love, like you could be like a ten win team that roster, I think is that good. And you're just allowing that to happen. You're allowing him to develop a relationship with Amari Rodgers, who's the highest drafted receiver the Packers have had in six years. So I don't I don't understand a lot of this. Like you know, players have the right to stay away from voluntary workouts. I'm not saying that they need to be there. But if you're Aaron Rodgers and your point is way, do you see what happens without me, You're kind of allowing without me to become a lot more attractive. I think we haven't reached the inflection point. Yeah, it's mini camp, wasn't going to be yet. He wasn't expected to be there at any point. So now as we go into this break, right the summer break for the NFL, then we get to the start of training camp and the start of the regular season, and those are the points when we see how far Rogers is willing to push his leverage, and his leverage is withholding his services as the reigning MVP. So does he not report to training camp? Is there efforts between the sides to get him to report to training camp or does it become a thing during camp and he's trying to report to the regular season. I guess now we see how far he's willing to push it, and now we see what his demands will be. Is there an ultimatum he gives the team and what is it? Yeah, I guess that's what we're all having trouble envisioning is exactly what it looks like when this gets resolved, Like the GM's aren't going away, so there has to be some sort of show of submission from the front office. And if that's a contract that sort of definitively locks him in for three or four years, I think that's something that could probably be a resolution on this. And I don't know if there's something beyond that. I don't know, if you know, I don't know if Brian gouden Concette needs to read essentially like a hostage note in front of his zoom call or something to the media to get this resolved. But they're just look, I don't know. Maybe maybe we're all being blind to this. Maybe we're all too used to the way things worked for decades in the NFL and we just can't envision Aaron Rodgers going elsewhere. Maybe that is the answer. Maybe he just maybe he's going to retire if he is not treated and leave somebody on the table and and go live his life. I'm rooting for that. I just don't think that a guy who is so maniacally competitive that I mean, do you remember like the sixty minutes thing like eight years ago and he freaked out on someone for calling him like a little bit shorter than expected? You know, I mean, this guy ticks in a way that is, you know of probably on the same wavelength as the great competitors of our time, Michael Jordan and you know, Kobe Bryant and all these people. But at the same time, do we and I you know, I'm more than happy to be surprised that this is the case, But do we really think that that kind of person that rages at every slight is going to sit out a season and allow football to take place without him. I just think that that is far beyond anything that I expected. And believe me, I'm hoping for it because I think that players need to get used to life after football as soon as humanly possible, used to not being able to go out there and every good thing that you do applauded by eighty thousand people. There's another side of life to that, and if you're willing to sprint in that direction. God bless I, you know, I'm all I'm very happy for that. I just don't see it happening where. I don't think he's ready to walk off into the sun set just yet. I think it's especially hard to imagine because part of the slight that he has felt from the Packers is the idea that they drafted another quarterback in the first round, moved up to get him while Rogers was in his mid thirties, and in his mind, it's, well, what you think, I'm nearing the back end of my career. No, I'm another Tom Brady right. So I think it's especially hard to see him walking away now when that has been his motivation to show that he can continue to play at a high level for many years now. Maybe there has been a big shift. The last year has brought about a lot of life shifts in people as we have been forced to live life in a different way during the pandemic. So maybe it is possible that there was some major shift in his priorities or his mindset. But I agree Connor, it is very hard to imagine him doing that. What is more likely, I suppose if he were to be away from Packers this year would be that he would then hope to resume his career somewhere else. But all of this is just the different scenarios sorting through. It's just really hard to game out at this point in time. So the guy kind of looming in the background of all of this continues to be Jordan Love, the first round pick in twenty twenty. We know that whole backstory at this point, but for a second straight year, there are sort of rumblings that he is struggling in the in these sort of you know, basically behind the scenes scenarios where where he's trying to prepare to become an NFL quarterback. And the latest is Danilovsky, ESPN analysts, my neighbor out here in Connecticut, has has said he is quote alarmed about what he's hearing about Jordan Love and his struggles in Ota. So if there's one thing I've learned about you eyes over the last couple of weeks doing the show with you, is you guys enjoy fun things. And with that in mind, I thought I'd put together a little a little quiz show, a little game show for us to run through today. I am going to read you in light of this Jordan Love news that he is struggling in OTAs, I'm going to read you four blind items about quarterbacks who struggled at some point early in their career. These are, uh, these are new stories from from newspapers or internet. They have the Internet. They write about football there. And we'll see if you guys can guess. I will keep score and we will crown a winner at the end. And wow. Yeah, I mean, I don't want to oversell. If you like, wait, wait, don't tell me on NBR you will probably maybe tolerate this segment right here. Now, let me ask before we start, how far back are we talking? What time frame? Uh? Two decades? Okay, okay, like this mouthy quarterback from Alabama, Terry Bradshaw. Yeah no, okay, yeah, med I just see you to get a little bearings here. So two decades, all right, So that is two thousan okay? Two oh man? What they said about slinging Sammy ball? Uh yeah, So this goes back to basically Brady era. Let's call it Brady Era. Brady's not in here, by the way, I shouldn't have given you that hint, but he's not in here because I couldn't find anyone saying anything mean about him when he was a young quarterback, probably because people didn't pay attention to him until he started right, Yeah, no, he was everything about him in like his early training camps were like like, oh, the sixth rounder is impressing, he might make this roster. Could he be stashed on the practice squad? Stuff like that, But no one was like, this guy's terrible, Right, Okay, this is gonna this is gonna be interesting. I predict that I'm gonna go, oh for four here, I have low expectations. This is so. Will we flip the coin backstage before the show and Jenny gets to guests first on number one, and then conn let one of these be Jenny as a Jets be writer Mark Sanchez. Oh wow, I didn't even consider that. I didn't either. Now I haven't do this. Oh all right, number one. And by the way, I'm going to throw in blanks at this person's name. This was a column Britton about this player during his third season. Blank was awful. It may have been the worst performance of his career. I haven't been an advocate of relieving him with a veteran backup. If there ever was going to be a time last night was it? But the head coach didn't consider it. He should have. The play of Blank is starting to come into serious question. He now has one win in his last eleven starts, three in his last sixteen. He has trouble throwing the ball Street and that's not good. Jenny, who is this young quarterback? All right? Because of the tone of the column, it sounds a lot like John McClain of the Houston Chronicle. So I'm going to go with David Carr. Ooh, connor, you can also agree if you want well, one win over eleven starts sort of narrows it down, right, Because I was gonna say with Jenny the tone was either McLean or the only people who write like that that aren't in Houston, or either in Philadelphia or New York. Right, So that would lead me to to say, it's either car it's Eli Manning, or it is well Donovan McNabb's outside of the he's outside of our friends. Is Dono McNabb's outside of our parameters here? So I'm gonna for sports sake, I'm gonna go Eli Manning. Give me Eli Manning final answer. The answer is Drew Brees. Oh, San Diego media coming after Drew Brees. So I'm going to give Jenny Gets a point and a half for for being closer geographically and three quarters of a point. All right, there we go, all right, I was just hoping it was Eli Manning. Let's be honest. Uh, well, there's still three to go here. Clip Who wrote that? By the way, Oh I you know, I didn't necessarily want to call anyone out, which is what I'll say, because otherwise I'll have to admit that I closed the window and I'm just firing it back up. It was a San Diego Union Tribune, though it was not Kevin Acy. That's ah, That's all I know. Okay, all right. Clip number two. This is from this quarterback's second year, and this is a training camp report. Blank is making mistakes at an alarming clip. Context is important, but let's not explain away his mistakes. Yes, it's only training camp. He should be just fine so long as he learns from these early mistakes. But there's more context. Blank has thrown seven interceptions in six days of practices. He's thrown six of those interceptions in the three padded contact practices, which are more meaningful Connor, who is this young quarterback? Certainly not Tim Tebow, because Tim Tebow always performs well in practice. Let me think here, So here's another thing that to me has you have to narrow it down because for a long time, New York writers, Philadelphia writers were picked on for doing practice stats. Back before that was like a thing, you know, like a thing that all beat writers do now where they chart the quarterbacks during training camp. So this quarterback is making mistakes at an alarming rate. All right, I don't think you would go back to San Diego, so I don't think it's Philip Rivers. I. You know, well, Pittsburgh is too fawning of a market, so I don't think it can be Ben Roethlisberger. Let's go, Let's go Pittsburgh. Let's go Ben Roethlisberger. With the caveat that they're too fawning of a market, so I don't know if they would actually write something like that about him. Jenny, all right, I'm gonna go with Eli Manning. I think that the three padded practices indicates that this was a report from the two thousands, because after the new CBA, there would not be three padded practices or after the twenty ten CBA there would not be three padded practices. Excuse me, twenty leaves. Yeah, so I'm going to pick someone from the two thousands. Seems like it could be the New York market. Eli is going into his first full season as a starter. There are some concerns, but also some optimism. The answer is Patrick Mahomes, Oh, three pad, Yeah according to this Wow? According Oh wait, maybe not in a single day. Wow, I really missed heard that. I really miss heard that. Yeah, I was hardening back slightness because and that's why you're losing five points on that question, Jen, and I really appreciate the game show pontificating you guys are doing throughout this, throughout this whole process. And Connor, I'll give you eight points. How about that bang in Pittsburgh? How about that there was a time when they're were three practices in a single day, and it may have been before the two thousands, but boy, did I miss hear that clue? Well, that's why you're sitting at negative three point five. I think I've already lost track of the points I've given out, but I believe it's Connor eight point seven five. Jenny negative three point five. Yeah, right, I guess it's halftime, so so take a moment to gather yourself before we get to a clue three. I do think clue three is the easiest of that boy, So I don't want to you know, I don't want to build up your confidence only to tear it down. But this is, uh, this will be Jenny's first guess on this one, and I guess next time we do this, we'll have to go into the family feud style uh soundproof booth with the other person and then bring them out for the second one. All right, you could have Jenny leave the guests in the chat of the zoom and I will look at it and then lock it in and then I can say it out loud and then we can bring it up. That would have been much better. Should we start doing that now? Yeah? Yeah, because this one's easy, but I have a feeling I'm not going to get it. So that was a really good idea. I'm giving you another quarter point for that, Connor, So you're up to nine. Wow, Jenny, contribute to the production of the show and maybe you can get back on the plus side here, all right. Clue number three, Jenny is going first. Here. This is a this is a rookie quarterback in training camp. Ideally, a team's first round pick blows away the coaching staff and takes the starting job. That hasn't been in the case. In fact, Blank continues to work with the third team offense. He has his flaws, and they were well known before his selection. He has he has all the requisite physical tools to be a top end NFL starter, yet he struggles with accuracy. As a result, the signal caller became a target of social media shaming after woefully missing a wide open running back out of the backfield. Jenny goes first. All right, Well, I'm trying to think of a quarterback that has had a lot of social media shaming in the last few years, because that would be when social media shaming would be at its peak. Trying to think of a first round quarterback in that time to span, also trying to recall depth charts to think of who was working with a third team offense. But I'll just go with Lamar Jackson. That was That was my thought as well. That was an excellent That was an excellent guess. I'm going Lamar Jackson as well. Social media shaming was the big clue for me, although I do remember not willfully missing a running back, but woefully missing. Remember for some reason, one training camp report I'll never forget was EJ. Manuel throwing a ball into the hospitality. Oh, yes, that is a great call. And so at first my mind kind of went there because I was like, well, if they were, if they were yelling him for that, you know, maybe the theme of that summer in Buffalo was what other things is he missing and throwing and you know all that stuff. And so I'm gonna go with Lamar Jackson one, with my one B guests being Blake Bortles, but I think it's the Mark Jackson right draft class and right city with EJ. Manuel. That was Josh Allen. Oh, definitely sit behind EJ. Mccaren, Definitely behind AJ McCarron at that at that Chay camp. And I don't remember who else was on that depth chart at that. Oh that Nathan Peterman probably, Oh wow, yeah, all right, that's true. Who would have who Lamar Jackson would have only been behind Flacco? Right, Yeah, yeah, I was trying to remember. I thought Carson Wentz was third on the depth chart at one point two, but Robert. Yeah, right, he would have been behind Bradford and Cha's Daniel. So I did consider Wentz. That was good, I I thought, because I don't remember that social media shaming from missing the running back. You know, the big one with Allen was the Senior Bowl where he misses the net after Baker Mayfield throws into the net, which was what everyone got all up in arms about. But Josh Allen, Josh Allen is the answer to number three. Uh, Jenny picks up Uh, let's say two and a half points for being brave enough to come up with their own answer there, and uh and Connor, Uh, you'll just you'll stay at ten. So it's ten to one right now, wownor continues to still plenty still plenty of ball, still plenty of ball game left, Jenny, Jenny can go to final Jeopardy if it if it ends right now, all right, all right, clue number four. Connor will go first. This is a quarterback. This is during his rookie season. This is a regular season. A report on him on Tuesday, the first day that the majority of acts was open to reporters, and more than a month blank looked awful. If one day was any indication he hasn't been improving a bit. He has limitations physically that just won't go away. Quote what you see is what you get. He doesn't have more great potential that doesn't show, says a Hall of Fame coach interviewed for this story. He's part of a system and had a real outstanding coach in college and all that. I don't know where it's going to take him or that was end quote. Or as one long time quarterbacks coach in the NFL said, quote, he doesn't demonstrate as a first rounder the genetic ability to do something extraordinary. The fear is he'll just plateau right at this kind of average level. And one more quote, this is from a personnel director. He looked terrible this summer. There's no doubt about it. People were talking about benching the starter and I'm like, that's just crazy talk. My gosh, Blank looked so bad. If he can't pick it up and go against the speed of guys in practice, there's no way he could do it. Games Connor or who is this young quarterback? This is a brutal Like this must have been a national column, right, This felt like a national report on this guy, Like, uh, I'll tell you afterward. Okay, let's see here. It was the first time that it was a Tuesday, and it was the first time that practice was open to reporters in more than a month. I don't know why that sticks out to me, But why would that be right? So this would have been after the bye week maybe, but that wouldn't be more than a month, right, So is it it's it's Was there a time when media access rules were such that a reporter could go a month during the season without seeing a Tuesday practice. So that leads me to believe it might be back in the day a little bit mocking the physical gifts to me, sick knolls, lumbering white dude, and that kind of narrows it down. Let me sing, you know, for me between like Roethlisberger Philip rivers Hall, he would have had to have a great coach in college. That's the other thing too, That's the big clue. So did this guy come from? You know? Is it Drew Brees again because he came from Purdue with Joe Tiller? Is it, oh gosh, who had a great coach in college? Because some of these guys are coming from weird places. I guess, big nod to Mark Whipple, Ben Roethlisberger Miami of Ohio. The physical gifts thing and the fact that it was like two thousand and four. Maybe these guys weren't a practices often. I'm at a loss here, but they did okay his first year. I'm just gonna go with Ben Roethlisberger. I don't know the physical gifts thing. Has he shook? So you said it was his first year as a starter, Gary, his first year in the league, first year in the league, Yeah he was there was. The last quote was, well this I can tell you he was a backup at that point. The last quote was he looked terrible to summer. There's no doubt about it. People were talking about benching the starter, and I'm like, that's crazy talk. My gosh, Blank looks so bad. If he can't pick it up and go against the speed of guys in practice, there's no way he could do it in games. I'm gonna go with Baker Mayfield. It is Aaron Rodgers. I was gonna say Rogers because I know you might do it all right, all right, but the college coach thing, I mean, everyone loved it. If Tedford, I love Jeff Tedford back then, al right, because he had Kyle Boehler, he had who else did he have? Dilfer? Was a Tedford guy was at it? Yeah? Was that former boss Peter King? It wasn't, but I will give you a bonus. At is based on a Peter tweet, the Hall of Fame coach who gave this quote about Aaron Rodgers. What you see is what you get. He doesn't have more great potential. That doesn't show he's part of his system and a real outstanding college coach and all that. I don't know where it's going to take him, because this guy popped up a couple of times with Rogers quotes and it was like, Wow, he was really down on Aaron Rodgers. Andrew Brandt. I'm just kidding. I would say, is Jimmy Johnson maybe Jenny do you want a way in? Nah? I don't have a good guess there It was Bill Walsh. Bill Walsh was totally totally down. Oh, we really, Connor, you and I really really mucked this one up. Huh, as we have one more? You know what? I think that was it? We're gonna Connor. You lost four points on that last round for I don't know bring up Mark Whipple, Mark Whipple. I was I'm really mad at myself. I was gonna say Roger, because I was like, Gary is gonna bring this back around and compare the criticism to Jordan Love to Rogers. And then I got a little drawn in by the college coach thing, and so that's kind of why I was leaving Mayfield. Also, the lack of you know, the height would play into the physical gifts, but I guess people say that that Rogers, you know, isn't super tall either. I don't know the system. Baker Makefield was a good guest because system was thrown around a lot for him. Yeah, I'm mad at myself. I should have gone with my guts. Baker Mayfield matches this vaguely, so Jenny gets tready for that and she gets an extra point for quitting while she was a head at the end. So Connor falls to six. Jenny picks up three points in the last round. Connor still hangs on for the win six to four. So I scored this despite the fact that none of us got the answers right. But sad state of affairs. But it was it was the drama that sort of played into it. Yeah, I didn't look I just went around and looked at what people were saying about good quarterbacks when they were young. And this isn't necessarily saying I mean, if Jordan Love was playing really well, that would that would be better, That would be a better thing. You'd rather be good right now than not good right now. But the whole sort of I don't know, the whole shaming of Jordan Love, who, by the way, didn't have a training camp last year for anyone to really see, and you know, hasn't really had to prove anything at this point. It's just getting a little bit out of hand at this point. But I guess that's vaguely my point to this. I have a hot take on this. Scary though I have to say, oh, okay, I do think there are conclusions, not conclusions, but I do think there are observations that are somewhat meaningful that you can draw on a quarterback from an OTA practice, and I think accuracy is one of those, because accuracy shows up in a lot of different ways, and in an OTA practice, you're not really under pressure. I mean, there may be a somebody coming towards you, but you're wearing a red Jersey. They're not going to take you down to the ground. If you have accuracy issues that show up in an off season practice, then I think there is a concern there. And I say this because I remember watching Jimmy Garoppolo with the forty nine ers, and it was after he had you know, it was the summer, after he had been traded and he'd had the hot start, and obviously that season got scented with the ACL injury, but I remember he was throwing high the whole practice, and I thought that that indicated that maybe there were some things off with his mechanics. Maybe he hadn't been paying the same degree of attention that he once did, or maybe he made some changes or whatever the case may be. So I do think with a quarterback you can draw some conclusion. Now I think a lot of positions. Absolutely not. If you're not in pads, there's nothing meaningful that can be drawn. But I do think there's something to I don't know. Obviously, the point of this exercises that these were all great players and that this one, one snapshot didn't mean anything. But if you have a trend that shows up over a multiple practice, I do think there is a worthwhile observation that can be made. Just because Jimmy Garoppolo is still thrown high three years later, his ball places has been a problem ever since then. I mean, I'm just saying, Gary, you know, maybe there was something to that observation that day. Doesn't always turn out that way, And I think that's the problem, is that for every observation that turns out to be meaningful, there are many more that are less but the only window of access that you really get. And so if you're there as a beat reporter, you have a responsibility to report on why you're seeing. You don't necessarily have to draw large, sweeping conclusions, but you know, I do think there is Ah, it's a part of your job to share your observations that day. Bad job by Bill Walsh. I still can't. Yeah, that is stunning. Was I should I should track down this Peter tweet? There there was a Peter had tweeted out that Bill Walsh told him uh And this this appeared in stories around the time as well. He would not have taken either Alex Smith or Aaron Rodgers first overall, if he was the fourteen Honors, he would have taken someone else and then taken Brian Greasy in round two because Greasy had the tools to be special. But sometimes Bill Walsh gets it wrong too, and that's that's that's a lesson for life or something. And that's what his game was all about. Teach you thatsens. It was essentially just Connor guessing his least favorite quarterbacks and hoping that somebody wrote something mean about them. You know, I am a person who always does poorly with these kinds of games because there's just like it's always been. My sister has always said, there's like gaps in my knowledge. So I'll just like forget something very obvious in space, and then I look incredibly silly. But I'm glad Connor that you and I looked equally silly today. Thank you for sharing in the pain it was. I Well, next time we do this, will I will play and maybe maybe Shelby will read the clues, or maybe Jenny will read the clues. If you'd like to transition to a game show host and and throw your throw your talents there. But some people practice meditation for years in order to attain gaps in knowledge, Jenny, soact that we already have. It is a good thing. All right, No, this was this was a fun exercise, Gary, point to take in despite the fact that I then tried to make account point that was largely flawed. Point taken from your exercise. I think we can all agree that this is something we did. And now it is over Amen. All right, So one of the other big headlines around the league right now, and there are going to be consequent hunts for this. Uh. Some teams vaccination rates remain low. Uh, and for a number of reasons. And there are you know, aside from sort of the ability to fully participate in society that that that it allows us, there are going to be specific hurdles that unvaccinated players have to cross should they choose to not get vaccinated this season, when it comes to travel, when it comes to getting tested daily, when it comes to wearing masks around the facility, when it comes to using the weight room. Uh. There there are are basically going to be consequences for not being vaccinated. We had among other players, Sam Darnold had sort of said he is looking to gather more information, didn't want to get into it. Mantes Sweat of the Washington football team. They had brought in an infectious disease expert to talk to them about why they should consider vaccination and things like that, and he did not take well to that, and it sounds like he is he's not particularly interested in getting the vaccine. But we've just sort of we've arrived at a point where I guess everyone feels like we're sort of stepping out of this pandemic any moment now. But there are you know, we're not in the clear, and that is you know, again, it plays a larger role in society, but it's going to specifically play a role with how these NFL teams operate. Yeah, And I think the frustrating part of some of the comments that have been made over the last week is what information would convince people, right, And you have professional athletes who are in a setting where they are highly incentivized to get the vaccine. I mean, we all are in a way to be able to return to normal lives and things like that, but for them to not have to have their team be in the more intensive protocols and to not have the potential to miss practices or games even just for an exposure and things like that. If your team gets to a certain level, then the team is in a better position. It's it's more enjoyable season that you'll play. You get some advantages, and yet players are still disinclined to get the vaccine. And the expert that Ron Rivera had come talk to the Washington football team is one of the leading immunologists because Meckia Corbett was central and developing the Maderna mRNA vaccine. I know that's the one that Connor got. I think Gary and I both got viser, but she was central to developing that vaccine. And so for to say they're gathering information, they need more information, who better to give you that information than the immunologist your head coach brought into the team who helped develop one of the vaccines that is helping us all return to normal life. So I don't understand this idea that I don't have enough information or I'm still gathering it on my own. It's more of a resistance to the people who are bringing information, and I guess a resistance to what people seem to consider traditional channels. But the reality is, these are the experts, these are the people you should be listening to. So I think it speaks to a question of where people are getting information and what they are trusting. At this point, if you're not getting a vaccine because of a doctor on YouTube, you have to publicly say that you're not getting a vaccine because of a doctor on YouTube or from four twenty conspiracy underscore six nine pirate on Reddit, Like you know that if that's who you're listening to, If that's who you choose to listen to instead of an immunologist who help develop the vaccine, good for you. But you have to say that. You don't get to say I'm doing more research because what research is left to be done? I don't I don't understand this, Like you know, I need all the facts first, What are the Like I'm I'm kind of at a loss right now, Like you know, after we've gotten it, nobody the percentages, the rates of the virus have gone down, Like, I don't understand what is left here? What's the hurdle? I don't know. I know I'm in firmly in one camp and that everybody here gets to make their choice and celebrate their freedom from vaccine if they want to. But I just think especially players who are in a position where they can be of influence, they have a reach, they have a voice. I think there's more responsibility than just to basically is it yourself. Is like the smug Joe Rogan guy being like, well I'm I'm I'm thinking above the problem here. No, you're not like you there there's smart people out there. There's immunologist who helped develop the vaccine that can tell you what's in there. Stick a fork on your head and tell me if you're made of metal or not. After this, you know you're not magnetic, so you're fine and you won't get any of your teammates sick. I think, And Darnold said another reason. That same Darnold he gave a reason, Well, I live alone, so I am not risking anybody. You're in the facility every day. You're around ninety other people and coaches and support staff and people with a family. You had an autoimmune condition last year that caused you to miss a lot of football. I think this was or two years ago. Maybe the mono thing. Uh man, Like, what other information do you need? But that's that's my two cents. No, that's that's that is That is the heart of the worrisome part of this. I mean, look at there, there are there are people you know, especially the people of color who, based on, you know, the mistreatment they've they've suffered at the hands of the government over the years, are a little bit wary of jumping into what is you know as sort of a government uh advocated program here for for vaccination. And that's somewhat understandable. Uh, it's it's the guys, it's the more research guys like and like you said, it's you're going to YouTube, aren't you like you're you're you know, between uh bts videos, You're you're seeing what pops up for a vaccination device. And that's a that's husuely problematic. And I guess the last thing and it sort of gets to the heart of what Darnold was unsuccessfully trying to argue, is uh and and to be clear, like I'm I'm a I'm a selfish person. And part of the reason I got the vaccine was because I live with an immunocompromised person, so it's important for me to get it for that reason. However, or I also, like you know, I coach soccer. I don't want to give it to any of the any of the parents of the kids on my team or you know, but I don't want my kids teachers to get it like it just it's it's just doing something for the good of society to an extent, and the rewards just far out the risks at this point. And uh, it's it's just sort of disheartening that this conversation is still going on. I guess yeah, And you wonder what else, you know, teams and coaches can do. That's why I thought the step that Rivera took was a really strong one. You know, they're experts because MICKEYA. Corbette works at the NIH which is in Bethesda, Maryland, very close. She's also a black scientist, and so I think it is helpful, as you mentioned, Gary, because there have been has been history and in our country of the black population not receiving fair medical treatment, right, So I think it was helpful he brought in a scientist, I you know, leading expert in the field, a person who was central to the development of the vaccine. So then you ask yourself, well, what more are players waiting to hear? All right, guys, Well, hopefully this gets sorted out over the next couple of weeks here, otherwise it's going to be very uncomfortable training camp for for some of these guys quarantine too. I mean, these guys would still have to quarantine. Unvaccinated players wouldn't have to quarantine at that point. So there there are lots of reasons to go ahead and do it. It is everyone's personal choice, but yeah, we'll see how it goes. Do you guys buy virtue of the I remember reading the article in the Atlantic as part of the visor clan. Is it like, does it feel beneath you to have me a maderna man on your podcast? Or like, is it something that you guys talk about when I'm not around, or you know, how does that visor people? It's sort of upon us to be accepting of others, so you know, we're kind of we welcome you. We'd pity you to it to an extent, so we can welcome you. Thank you, Thank you. The tail I'm growing is hardly noticeable. The MMQB Monday Morning NFL podcast is Jenny Brentis, Connor Orr and me Gary Gramling. We are produced by Shelby Royston Sis. Executive producer of podcast is Scott Brody. Mark Ravick is emeritus editor of the MMQB. Andy Benoit is the founder of the mmqb NFL podcast. Be sure to subscribe to this feed on Apple podcast, and once you do, please leave a rating and review because it really does help other people find the show, which is also available on Spotify radio dot com, Stitcher, SI dot com, and wherever else you list the podcasts po

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