Hey guys to Albert. We've got a great show for you this week. Dresses in for the takeaways, We've got a special guest to break down everythunit players are facing and this post unusual of off seasons, and as always we get to all of your questions from the sixth pack. Let's go all right, Welcome in to the m m QUB Podcast with Albert brier Um. A different week, a different couple of weeks in our country, and obviously a very different offseason in the NFL, and we're gonna give you a lot of football today. Um. You know, I know we've talked a lot about the about the protests, about everything that's happening in our country, about how that relates to the league. We're gonna get to that. We're also gonna get to some football because I know that's what you guys are here for, and you guys come here for football, and so we're gonna be a mixing both this week and um so for the takeaways, we have back once again because I would love to bring this second voice in here, um my good buddy from w p r OH and Providence, uh Andy Gresh, Welcome back in, Hello Bert, and actually back now on CBS Sports Radio on Sunday nights from ten pm to two a m. Because now we're we're we're welcome back as society is starting to open again. So it's it's, uh, thank you for having me on to do my what not with you. There you go, Yeah, well I didn't know, like so that got shut down because of COVID. Yeah, it was. It was kind of a reaction where a lot of the weekend people were off and I was doing Saturday afternoons and you know this, when you have kids, you'd love to have a Saturday afternoon. So I talked with the network and they were like, hey, we're gonna put people back on, and yes, so now its Sunday nights. So in all honesty, I will be reacting to everything going on in the NFL during the NFL season because I called the college games, so normally I wouldn't do the national deal. So now I get to work seven days a week all the time. There you go, there you go big, But well, I guess we can both can be grateful for still working. So there's no question where let's do some wood knocking on that one and move on people here. Okay, So we're gonna get to the takeaways. My first takeaway for this week. Uh, you know, I think what the players did, um, and I give credit where its due, and I'm gonna I'm gonna run through the list if I can pull it up here. But Michael Thomas, the Saints receiver, was really sort of the leader of this and putting the video together. Um, Tyrone, Matthew, Patrick, Mahomes, Deshaun Watson. There were nineteen guys in all who are involved in this UM and I'm just pulling up the list now so I have them. Davante Adams, Stefan Gilmore, Odell Beckham, Sae Juan Partley, Marshaw and Lattimore, Jarvis, Landry, Patrick Peterson, Eric Kendricks, Anthony barr, Zeke Elliott, Chase young Sterling Shepherd, DeAndre Hopkins, Patrick Peterson, and Jamal Adams. That's I mean, a that is a that is a murderers row um list. That is a that's that's a list of heavy hitters right there. And so you know, I thought it was brilliant with the players did um. You know, really, I think and I think the way you gotta look at this scrash like the NFL is like one of the big legacy networks, right, like if you watch ABC Nightly News or the CBS Evening News. Um, they're trying to appeal to everybody. They're not like the cable news networks, you know, like their their their goal is to reach the widest audience, and so they try to give you the news as straight as they possibly can, because the idea is to appeal to everybody, um, which is different than the you know, a subscriber model, which is what cable is. And I think that's what the NFL has always been. The NFL has just tries to appeal to everybody. It's the whole Republicans by sneakers thing too, you know. And so I think, uh, I think we're the NFL's usually straddled defence on things like this. The players really forced them to pick a side, and I thought that was the brilliance of it, right, Like the brilliance of what they did. I think we all thought the NFL's first statement was weak. Um, they came back the second straightment statement was a little stronger, but they both like the first one definitely kind of smelled like it went through fifteen different people and was all lawyered up and everything else, and I the brilliance and what the players did was they said, no, you know what, we're not going to even complain to you. We're gonna give you a new statement read this, and he did, and they forced him to pick aside and he did. And the really interesting part about it now, Gresh, is that you know, as expected, he was called out by by by Donald Trump, and now you know, we see what happens because now I don't think he can go back on this. People have talked a lot about like, you know, well, you know, now when the money comes in, are they gonna do something about anthem protests? And no, he can't right now. He loses all credibility with his players if he does, because he's already taken aside. And so I think that this one's I mean, to me, it's fascinating because you do have the NFL now taking aside, and um, you know, he picked the players side, and it's gonna be interesting to see where it goes from here. So it's interesting that you bring up this Godell deal because I've been talking about this and I got into it both on Sunday and on Monday on the radio, And of the first things I wrote down was some of the words that were used by Roger Goodell and sort of just how the message could be interpreted and if you did have a lack of trust in the NFL, why you could like so for example, right he started with the NFL makes a logical, agreeable statement, and then it's NFL, emits wrong for not listening to players earlier. It was an acknowledgement that maybe they didn't react the way they should have right away, but it wasn't hey, we were wrong in telling Cap he couldn't kneel. And then it's the encourage all all to speak out and peacefully protest. Is that because we would have every reason to be a little skeptical. Does that mean peacefully protest? But not in a football field, in a football stadium, in one of our uniforms, right at the time of the national anthem. And I think that you are right in general role in that he would lose the players if it isn't hey, you can go ahead and take a knee whenever the anthem is played. Um. But to me, it was a little open ended in the way that Roger Goodell sort of put that out there. And Burt. Look, let's just take a step further. What was a part of the solution in the NFL's mind. By the way, Okay, so i'm speaking, I'm looking at this from the NFL purview. What did they do all of a sudden you didn't see national anthems on TV and it wasn't a part of the television broadcast. So there's still ways for them to not suppress the message. I don't want to say they're going to, but that it wouldn't get out there as if it were two thousand and fifteen. And I'm sure that the networks are gonna have to balance the level of sensitivity in all of this while also trying to get as much money as they possibly can. Like I wonder if the networks are gonna be like, well, we're not showing the anthem anymore or anything like that because we need the two and a half minutes for ad revenue. I think the backgrounds important here too. And so the owners did vote through a policy that would have forced players to stand in May. The players were pissed, and the players were pissed because the players hadn't been consulted on it. So they met with the players over the course of June and July, in August, and at the end of August, they came to this decision where quietly they didn't announce anything. We're gonna leave it alone. We're gonna leave the old policy, and we're not gonna do anything. We're not gonna make a big deal out of it. And one of the reasons why I thought this was really interesting I did some reporting on it two years ago, was it was based on data that they had compiled that basically showed that they were the American football conversation was not affected by Donald Trump's tweets. Where it was affected was when the NFL started reacting to Trump, because then it was a fight, right. And so they quietly came to this agreement, and part of the agreement was basically to nor Trump right. And so that was sort of how they rode that thing out. And it worked in eighteen. It worked in nineteen, ratings were good. I don't think we didn't hear about it much at all, outside of like when Cap had his tryout last year. The question is whether or not that can work this year because of what just happened, what's happened over the last couple of weeks because it's an election year, because Trump's already taken it up. And that's what's gonna be fascinating about it going forward, is their approach has really been let's just go forward. Let everybody do what they want to do, but just not make a big deal out of it, and not turn it into something more than we need to turn into, and let the players handle it and listen to the players, and it will be interesting because if they let that happen here, can it be something that is just sort of in the background or doesn't need Is it necessarily going to be a big deal when we get to September? Well, I do think that, yes, it will be on the minds of a lot of players, and I'm sure they're going to want to do it, and it's the whole dissemination of message like we've seen players meals since Colin Kapernick, and you'll see it on social media. But it didn't it was losing its impact relative to its place in the National Football League. Now I do think that is renewed. But let me just I'll just put a TV hat on for a second. Right, Let's just say that, you know, the television networks have already altered the way they do their up to game presentations. You don't see a lot of that stuff. Normally, it's, hey, here's the game, here's some coaches being banged, boom, a minute to go, and we're going right to kick off when you're actually in the meat of the game. But is there a way for the networks too, maybe, you know, whenever you see CBS on the return from break right, it will you know, here's you know the picture of here's Duxbury and Foxborow and you know all those places that are around the stadiums, you know where restaurants. It makes me wonder if there would be an image of that day's game in there, say, if it's coming out of a break and the team in stadium does something, uh, whether it's you know, George Floyd. Really there's just a lot of different ways that they can massage it. But I hope it doesn't get to the point to where it's like, no, no, no, not only are we doing this, you need to put this on TV. That's where I think the NFL might draw the line and say you can do this, but we'll also maybe nudge our television partners not to blast that out all over the world and quickly on the players birth you know what, I just clicked on the player's tribune and I'm not plugging that website or anything necessarily. My point of it is, you mentioned at the outset the players saying here's what we're going to do. Players are realized they now have the power, and they have power in their voice. And the biggest change that we've had in the last five years in terms of athletes being able to be a part of this movement really affect change is what's gone on since guys like Derek Jeter and others have said, hey, wait a minute, let's cut out the middleman. You can just read directly from me, right, And that's yeah, I mean, I mean, look like again, I thought it was impressive how they put this whole thing together in the first place. And yeah, I mean, you see the power of the players that when you got high profile guys. And I think quarterbacks are really key to this. And it was interesting talking to Richard sherman Um when he said the white quarterback speaking out, and that was Joe Burrow and Trevor Lawrence who's not in the league yet, but we'll be soon. Carson Wentz and um And and Andy Dalton all spoke out, and then you know, in this video you have the two highest profile I would say black quarterback, maybe two of the three highest profile black quarterbacks in the league, and Patrick Mahomes and Deshaun Watson being part of it. And you can't ignore it when the Super Bowl m v P and the NFL MVP is a part of it. Like one of the highest profile guys of the last fifteen years in your game, who's still twenty four years old, is on there. It's you know, you recognize the power of it. And it's great to see quarterbacks getting involved to quite frankly, because a lot of times they have been the quarterbacks have been Switzerland on these sorts of topics in the past, you know, like because they're worried that they they've got like sort of that Jordan attitude, right, and so like like I don't know if if a Joe Burrow or a Patrick Mahomes or Deshaun Watson or Carson Wentz or Trevor Lawrence would have said something twenty years ago. So it's good that those guys are recognizing I can stand up for what I believe in, and still make a ton of money, still be very successful, still be beloved. All of that. Um, that will flow right into my second takeaway, which is that I do think that the I think the I I personally think the equation on Kaepernick has changed a little bit. Here's what I mean by that. Back in when he was a free agent, the equation was he had no longer he was no longer the type of player where teams were willing to take on everything that would come with him to sign him. And to varying degrees, We've seen this with different players in the past, and I can give you like, you know, Jay Cutler was sort of in this group, and um, Tim Tebow was in that group. But obviously there are different reasons, different degrees. But you know, big part of why was, you know, I think a lot of the football people didn't even want to go to their owner with it because it was just like, it's not worth it, you know. And I think Seattle was a good example of it, where Seattle they were looking at Austin Davis that the idea of him coming in became like a huge news story and they were dealing with like five other things at the time, I think that that was that might have been the offseason when the Frank Clark thing happened, Like something happened with Frank and they were like, just no, just give me Austin Davis and we'll be done with it, you know. And so I think like the idea of dealing with everything that came along with Kaepernick was a problem. Now I think like maybe like the perception, like the widespread perception of what Colin Kaepernick did in maybe that's changed enough where the equation changes, you know what I mean, where it's not you're not as worried about like everything else that comes along with cap, so you may be more willing to bring him in, you know. And I'm not saying it's gonna be popular with like anyone's fan base that doesn't exist. That's not gonna happen. There's gonna every fan base is gonna have people that aren't gonna like what he did. But I don't know, Aggression feels like maybe that equation has changed a little bit because I think maybe the way that he's viewed is changed a little bit. I think on the outside elements, You're right, it's probably much more tenable now let's put it that way. From a business standpoint, for an owner to get behind the causes that Colin Kaepernick supports, what are we getting to the point to where the football starts to matter again? And from your end of things, right that is that becomes a little bit more of the problem. Because now if we're just gonna evaluate this is not to say that Colin Kaepernick does not deserve a job in the NFL. This is the work because a lot of people just gonna be like, well, damn, and he should get a job because that's the way things are going right now. But let's just narrow this down on a little bit and and sort of thing about it. From the football standpoint. Number one, can he run what you want him to run? And without a body of work outside of a Jim Harbaugh offense, there will be coaches who will talk themselves into okay, I just don't know if he can do this, that or the other based on what we do in our offenses. Number Two, is the sort of your starting quarterback or are you bringing in If you bring him in to compete to be your starting quarterback and everything is even and he doesn't get the job, that's something that an organization and a head coach is going to have to be able to explain away, knowing that he's never going to be able to make everyone happy with his explanation, because if you say it's open and everything's even and Kaepernick doesn't get the job, it's going to optically be a little scary. And then there is will he be willing to be a backup quarterback? Because you and I know a backup quarterback very well, and it is a totally different job than being the starting quarterback. You're a therapist. You're the guy there to listen to a bitch about the coach you're supposed to be with that. I mean, there's a reason why for a period of time in the nineties, certain backups were perfect for the starters, Like Doug Peterson was never gonna leave Green Bay as long as Brett Farr was there because they mentioned fit together. I use that as an example because there are roles on a football team, and if Kaepernick is willing to listen to maybe some twenty five year old kid that he thinks he's better than that they have in there as the starter, then maybe you can have a conversation about it. Eard he is the other thing too. Money. I know backup money is pretty good right now. But if someone site unseen gonna say I'm gonna give Colin Kaepernick three or four million dollars a year to just come in and be my backup when he hasn't played football little one, right, and is he willing to come in for less? I think that part of it's interesting. And you know it's funny you talk about like the job of the starter being different than the backup. Right, So I can think of two very clear examples of guys who extended their careers just because they were the right of guy. And certain teams starting quarterback and they're gonna want that quart that backup to be a resource to the starter rather than a threat to him. And so like maybe Denver's in that category with Drew Lock, Maybe Jacksonville's in that category with Gardner Minshew. Maybe New England's in that category with um with with Jared Stidham, And you can see it like Jared Stidham, who's his backup, it's a guy who knows the system really well, who's been there multiples, right, And Brian Hoyer, and so like I do two clear examples I think the guys who extended their career. Josh mccowen's one who kept getting jobs because this guy's almost like a coach for your young quarterback. You bring him in, he's gonna help, He's gonna be a resource to him. He's never gonna be like You're never gonna worry about like the stars, never gonna have to look over his shoulders. So that's one example of it. Derek Anderson is the other one who was in Carolina for as long as he was in part because Cam Newton wanted him there because he was a great resource to Cam. And then he gets an extra year on attacked end of the attacked onto the end of his career in eighteen. Well, who was his coach. It was Sean McDermott, who was with him in Carolina, who knew, all right, I need another body in here. I want somebody who's gonna be a good resource to our rookie Josh Allen. Oh, Derrick Anderson was great for Cam Newton, so Derrick Anderson will probably be good for Josh Allen. So that's sort of an example of it. And is Colin Kaepernick. Does Colin Kaepernick want to be that guy, and I don't like. I don't know if I don't, and that's a fair and and is it? Is it? I mean, look, he his football legacy is quote unquote intact if he goes back. Yeah, I mean he has a right to be finicky about the situation that he's going to walk into, just as much as the organization says, okay, are we ready to handle all of this if we bring him in. He's not our starter. You know, as we're kind of talking through this bird, I was thinking about sort of the politics of the quarterback position in terms of if you've invested high in a guide as a general manager, is it is it his job you know? Is it his job security to make sure something works. I wonder if, because they just drafted him to the organization, and because I do think with where they're moving offensively, given the skill set of the guy they drafted, if Kaepernick wouldn't be a fit in Miami, because if to it isn't ready to go, there's a real translatable skill set there with what Miami might want to be in terms of what they're gonna morph into offensively. And then of course we know there's a head coach there and Brian Flores, who would be uniquely equipped as a human being to be able to handle what would come with bringing Colin Kaepernick getting the idea and the market would probably be okay there too, Like it's that's not you know, I mean, it's not Dallas, it's not Houston. You know. It's just so, I mean, I think there are a couple of things that line up there. We'll go a little quicker on the last three takeaways. Um, the third takeaway I have, it's just it's, you know, like the one thing that's really left. And we've seen the long list of protocols that came out. We're gonna talk to our guests about that too. Um. But the one thing that's sort of I know is still a question is what they're gonna do as far as the start date for training camp crash and so you know, they've got there's a new union president and J. C. Treader is he gonna have one of his first acts be too like cut guys vacation short, all right? And if he doesn't, is they're gonna need to be an acclamation period at the beginning of camp. That's gonna make it harder for teams to play a preseason game two weeks after they report. Would they have to cancel the first preseason game? And there's so many logistical issues here, and I don't know why they don't just push the season back a month. I know there are teams that support the idea of it, like if I'm them, and I know the ship's probably sailed on this. The League office doesn't want it. The league off just wants to start on time. I'm sure that that's probably related to what the television networks are telling them to do. But to me, it would make so much sense to start October one. You would move the super Bowl back. You can move the super Bowl back. I don't think you're really losing anything. The thirst for football would be off the charts no matter when you start. I think that would actually probably put the Super Bowl close to February sweeps, which would be helpful for the network. Um, and you know you would have this build up and plus if you do it that way, you're giving teams more time to get their guys in shape. That probably means less injuries, so you can build in that acclamation period and you get to watch. And I think there's a key thing what every other sport does wrong. You get to watch what baseball does wrong, if baseball could ever get its head out of its ass. You get to watch what basketball does wrong. You have to watch what hockey does wrong. You get to watch even maybe what college football does wrong in the first few weeks of its season or during fall camp. So I just to me like, it's it just makes so much sense for them to push the season back three or four weeks start at the beginning of October. Everybody's so jacked for that. I don't know why they don't do it. I know there are some teams that support it. I know the league office is adamantly against it, so probably won't happen, but I'm for it. Well, I think television becomes a big factor because if you start to look at the sports television log jam that really begins around Labor Day and is going to continue through Christmas. But I think the last thing that the networks would want to do is sort of push back. And you mentioned February sweeps. That's a that to me, that's a double edged sword in that in theory, you would think it would would help them, but when you get into those sweeps, it's we need our base programming to do really to do big numbers. It would be a great promotional vehicle, would be the NFL. But you know if Keith Morrison's got a great dateline NBC or something like that, and you know what I mean, Like that's the kind of stuff that they plan out and plan for to validate those shows. So that's interesting. I wonder how how if it wouldn't be good for TV, maybe it got pushed back. I can understand. Look, if the NFL can find a way to start the year, even though go through all these changes and maybe preseason gets adapted or whatever in the world they're going to do, if the regular season kicks off on time, that's a major major victory for the NFL because then their core business stays intact. And yes, other people will be hurting, like these networks, you've got to pay the exorbitant money to be able to have access to the games. But the NFL would would have produced their product and got it out there in a timely fashion like a lot of other leagues haven't. So I can understand wanting to quote unquote stay on schedule, because now we've got the NBA talking about, well, the season will end, and then we'll have a training camp in two weeks and then we'll pick right back up. That is, you know, that's obviously a non starter in football. I I think the I think it would be I don't know, disastrous might be a strong word given the tone of our country right now, but I think for the NFL's core business, and I like, I just they want to look strong, like you know, strong, like bold. I know, I know, I like, but I and look like selfishly like I'd rather have this season end in time because that means there are off season starts in time. But I just, you know, I like, I just if you're if you really want to like give yourself the best chance of having fans in the stands, and you really want to kind of create the most fail safe I think it just I think it makes sense to wait anyway. Take away number four. Um, you know there was in the news this week Gresh Sam Donald. I believe he's bringing a bunch of his Jet teammates down to Florida. We've seen these camps pop up now. Obviously Brady did it with his teammates. Matt Ryan had a camp with his teammates out in uh In California. Uh you know, Dak Prescott has done some stuff in Texas with his teammates, So we've seen these things, you know, sort of across the country where uh you know, like quarterbacks have sort of taken the bull by the horns. And I it just makes me start to think about the programs that are like how like two twenty And this is something we're gonna get into our with our guest too, because he had experience from inven. But I really feel like this is gonna be a year where programs are tested and the strength of the guys that you're bringing into your locker room is tested. And like it's not even like can a guy sit up straight in a meeting and listen? It's will a guy do it himself? Will a guy do it himself? Like? Well, is a guy motivated enough to do it himself? Are your guys close enough to find a way to get together in the off season? Are your guys working together? Do they like being around each other? Like? I think all of those things are gonna be tested. And I you hear about these mini camps popping up, Philip Rivers is gonna have one, I believe in Indianapolis next week. Um, I heard, you know, and and we'll have more in this later, but I know there's one quarterback who's done eight like a full eight week program with plans to go back for another two weeks in July. And so I think it's really I think this off season is really gonna be like season, is gonna be a referenced them on those sorts of things. And so, you know, to me, it's like, I think it's just sort of the team. And you look back at eleven, I think the teams that were the strongest programs, you know, the teams had stability at quarterback. The teams had stability, you know, with their head coach. I think those are the team And I jotted down the teams. I mean teams that are stable with you know, long term head coaches, long term quarterbacks. Philly, Houston, Minnesota, New Orleans, Atlanta, Seattle, the Rams, the Niners. I mean, there are teams that check both boxes. And I think that's gonna be important this year. I agree with you. It's the whole you know, power of the players realizing that, hey man, we can work on our own. Who cares what the league tells us? What we can't do in the off season in terms of joining together and doing their workouts. They're doing their thing, and you know, whether it's O, T A S or not, it's good to see the players are doing this. And you know, it takes more than just a quarterback to be the leader. Guys have to get up, they gotta be around, they gotta be accountable to each other. They're gonna work out, and you're right, I think there's gonna be a real tangible effect. We've talked a couple of times on this podcast that you know, as things have gotten screwy, the Saints were already ahead of the game. They said, nope, go figure it out on your own. Let's just completely set it up virtually. And I think that's really gonna help them, even though they've had, you know, the Drew Brees situation and that dust up, and I'm glad the shack came in and was like, hey man, don't get divided, because you know what that in all seriousness though, that's that's a that's an athlete that other athletes are going to listen to. Let's put it that way. But I'm with you and um and you know, we'll be able to see the people who have been sharpening their steels, so to speak, monumental here for just quarterbacks, cross question alright, take away number five, Dalvin Cook doesn't look like he's gonna be showing up to any team activities. There are very strict rules in the new CBA overholdouts, so we'll see whether or not he actually carries this into the summer. It's much harder for guys to do it than it was even um in c b A, which strengthened the previous rules. But crash, I'm just gonna say, like, I can't blame him. Go get paid, dude, Go get paid. If you're Dalvin Cook, like and you are three years into the league, this is the first chance you have to get paid. Um, every carry that you take, every carry that you every every carry that you have, is one more carry closer to the end. And we saw it with Todd Gurley. Todd Gurley got paid after three years if they waited even a year, Like, I'm not sure that they pay him, right, Like, I'm not sure like that because that was the year, remember the Super Bowl and everything else, Like, I don't know if they pay him, and Todd Gurley's damn, I'm sure, he's damn pleased that that that that he want that he and his agent pushed the issue and wound up getting a contract after he went Offensive Player of the Year in Seen and so for Dalvin Cook for Joe Mixon and Cincinnati for Alvin Kamara in New Orleans. I think all of these guys, all of these guys have to, like to me, like every single one of them has to consider their future here and really press the issue to try and get paid. I'm with you. Running backs have to fight for their money because it ain't gonna be given to them. And I say that as someone who if I were a general manager in the NFL, I would no longer be afraid to draft a running back in the top ten of the draft because I think guys like Sequon Barkley and you know, Zeke Elliott are special. They say you can find them. I don't know, but you can find good ones. I don't know if you can find great all around running backs in the later rounds of the draft. I'm sure they're there, but I'm talking about the complete package. But I would also be a GM who would draft those guys and say they get their contract, I'm gonna franchise them, and then I'm done with them. I think a lot of these drunning backs have that six seven year shelf life. That's the way I would treat it. So I can understand why the Vikings might not pay the guy. But I can sure as hell'll understand why Dalvin Cook right now would jump up and say, YO, give me my money. Because even if he gets a little bit more, then I think're gonna make him top of the scale. There's no question. But if that guy could get a reasonably fair bump, you can get a little money in his pocket and lets him turn it loose for a couple more years, and then everybody probably ends up going on there. And like, I don't know, I to me, it's I do think that there's one thing that people miss that the guys you mentioned. I don't know if Cook's quite in this category, but to me, it's like and I think Christian McCaffrey special and like in a way that like he runs like one of these guys, but he's not like to me, Zeke and Sake one or the prototype, right, and that's a two d and thirty pound guy who can play on all three downs, who can catch the ball, who can pass, block who when you put him on the field, you can line them up different places. I think the key to playing running back now is being a queen on the chessboard like Alvin Kamara and Christian McCaffrey or queen's and the chessboard. To me, like what separates like Zeke and se Quant and Girlly before he you know, before everything went sideways, was those guys could beat both. Those guys are the they're the queen and the chessboard, and they're also the two pound hammer, you know what I mean. Like, so it's like, not only do you have a guy you can move around all over the place when he when he breaks the huddle, he could line up anywhere, but you can also haven't been the game on fourth and one and and trust that he's going to churn out that yard and so like I think that that's the to me, like that's the prototype. That's the new prototype. The question like with like McCaffrey, I think is special and that he's smaller, but he runs that way, you know, and he's a great inside runner. Um, So I think you're you're your only problem with with Christian to me would be like his frame, is he gonna hold up right? And Cook to me is like, okay, like is he as special as the other ones? He's close, He's definitely close. But you know, there is this category where it's like there's a lot of tough decisions to make, and Camara to me is like, Camara is gonna be fascinating because Camara, like, you know, if you can limit damage on him, he could have a career like Darren Sprowls, you know, like he could wind up lasting. So it's complicated in all of these situations. So I think we can agree both things are true. If you're running back to everything that you possibly can and your human like everything you humanly can do to try and get paid as early as you can possibly get paid well. At the same time, teams have every right to be hesitant about it, There no question, and I think both philosophies can be right. And you know how many other teams look at Dalvin Cook and say, I need to extend for that guy. That's the other thing that running backs have going against them, unfortunately, is that there are a lot of teams will look around and say, yeah, I'd like to have him, but I wouldn't want to like to happen. All the problem is they're they're a little sometimes that they're they're part of the problem at that position is sometimes they're too easy to find too, Like you can get a Kareem Hunt in the third round, you know, and that's too easy easy to find, so that you can manage the position right like you like, can you find that right there? You go exactly right? Do you have the ability to sort of mix and match with all these all these running backs out? All right? Well, good to have you back. Rush. Well, you're very kind for inviting me, and thank you, sir. And I'm sure we will chatters. All right, we will get to our special guests right after this. All right, we're gonna welcome back in a recurring guest, one of my favorite guests to have in and uh he's a former Ohio State linebacker, former Cowboys linebacker, Lions, Patriots. I'm probably miss somebody, Bobby Um you now see him on ESPN and one in Columbus. Bobby Carpenter, welcome back in Albert Thanks for having on, sirs. My pleasure is always did I miss any teams there is that it had some brief had some brief stops in St. Louis in Miami, but they were, you know, off season and then a month. So I still do all the emails from all the clubs and get to know what's going on. And they still treat you like alumni. Some of them treat better than others. But um, it was good. You know. I just experienced different locker rooms and I got to see about a sixth of the NFL when I was in it. So how varies the operations vary from team to team and where they really put their money and if they really care about taking care of the players, no doubt. All right. So one of the reasons I want to have Bobby on this week, I think we've all kind of compared I think over the last two three months this offseason of the eleven off season, and how challenging it is for players, how challenging it is for coaches, and how you know, what really happens over these three or four or five months could wind up affecting this season in a big way. And I want to take a kind of a different look at it. And I think Bobby's gonna have a pretty interesting perspective on this because he was a free agent in eleven, and so, um, you know, Bobby, I just kind of want to like let you set the stage, you know, and you were coming off of a season in which you you finished up with the Lions and your contract was up right, so kind of take me through what that was like, because I think it's probably something you know, it's probably similar to what some of the guys have been facing this offseason that are going to new teams. It is, and it's wholly unique and a little bit difficult. I think that there was a little bit more movement. I'm trying to remember exactly how it went down, but um, you know, they always obviously take care of the top guys first. I was not one of those guys. And as we saw that happen here in this offseason, they're they're signing guys and doing things, but then you can't get those physicals and so our whole thing was everything was pushed back and it was all condensed and they're going through this labor struggle and it's like, Okay, I had just come off, you know, a season where I had been really traded from Dallas. It was tumultuous here for me, but I finished up with the Lions. We want our last four games. I was starting in the last five or six games, playing really well, and some agents talking to him thinking, okay, like maybe we'll do a two or three year deal something that will be pretty decent for you coming out of this, which made a lot of sense. Well, then all of a sudden everything came to a screeching halt or no, there's no communication, no contact, you know, really all the way until I want to say, like late July, and so then there's just this mad rush to get everybody signed, try to figure out physical So there wasn't a ton of player movement that year, especially outside of the elite level guys and the deals that they really just gave out where a lot of like hey that minimum million dollar deals or whatever it might be. It wasn't anything that was of substance. It was longer term than had any type of creative structure in it, because there was just at a breakneck pace to try to get the veterans that you wanted to have back your team, maybe fill some holes, and so there was never any opportunity to take visits and to go around and to meet with other clubs and to kind of see what people needed additing into that it was already after the draft, and so teams have begun to fill holes there and so it really hurt the free agent market that season. So like, all right, so you you get out from you know, get out from underneath the season and then I'm sure you have your routine like every player does. Um, how did you have to switch things without having And I'm assuming like for most of your life, right like, you'd always had a team facility to go to. Right Like, you'd always been able to go whether it was I guess Lancaster High School or Ohio State or then in the pros the Cowboys, You'd always had somewhere to go to where you know, everything be really structured. So like, how does a player handle something like this, like and how much of it becomes on the individual player to handle it the right way? Well, it all eventually goes on the individual player, And so what was unique with that? Like I would always come back to Columbus in the offseason anyway, training to Ohio State and I do some of my own stuff, but then I'd be able to run with the guys and do some of their football specific drills and different things to it allow me to get into shape, probably better than guys who wouldn't have that avenue. And then so when the lockout hit, I just like, Okay, I'm just gonna continue to do the same thing. You know, college football wasn't on the lockout, and they still had everything that they needed. And then when spring ball came around, like you know, you're not in there practicing and doing that, but you'd work out with the guys and you go through the same training regiment. And so I kind of had a little bit of a team away from a team, and some of the guys try to go back to their colleges and and get involved in that. But other than that, like unless you have like a really nice home jim at your house, you still have to go find someplace to run. And like running on high school fields's really not flat. Do you find tracks like it's tough for you run twenty four hour fitness and a treadmill like those aren't really football specific. Uh. Active uh, you know, workouts or activities that are gonna translate into getting into shape. And so that one of the big concerns was guys getting injured, you know, tweaking groins, obligues, hamstrings, squads whatever it might be, just because you weren't doing those things and you didn't have that period of O T A S during the off season, so all the all those things kind of coming to a head. There there was a worry that there was gonna be some injuries, and I want to see, there was a bunch of guys that pop their achilles coming in and achilles were up there, it was up and it makes perfect sense. And so this year when you look at it, and I've been working on with a couple of guys who have been back from a different number of NFL teams, and you know, we'd work out one of our friends has a you know, a nice rack and gym and some stuff, and you'd be trying to find hills to run on or do things. But now like all the gyms were even closed, so it's not like you could just even join a twenty four hour fitness or l a fitness or whatever it is to be able to do that or even go to you know, your college, because most of those plaices were shut down. And so now it's really putting guys at odds either A they have to have their own stuff or BB really creative and even at that, it's gonna be really difficult to get guys ready in the traditional sense. No, not that they wouldn't be ready to play, but it's a lot different doing things on your own and trying to just you know, run around a little bit then you know, lifting heavy weights, when you have coaches supervision and you have plans and programs that will put you in place. Did you try to simulate football work? Because obviously that's a pretty big gap to go without any right, because you get to the and like that was so that was the ten season. So you guys, did you guys make the playoffs in ten? You did? Right? The remains, Yeah, we made them at eleven. We didn't make it inten Okay, Okay, So so you don't make the playoff serious seasons over right around New Year's then, and so you're going from New Year's to the end of July without any at least like structured football work. Did you try to get out and simulate football work? Did Like what did you do when the good news? Like that's what I'm said. Being at Ohio State, you could go over there and they would do something outside of like spring ball, you know, when they were doing some of their conditioning, their football conditioning. And then also like you know as a linebacker defensive back, like you're working on drops, there were guys who were working on routes and different things like that with receivers, and so there are guys back they're doing those type of things as well. And so a lot of that stuff helped immensely. But you had to have a college that you either lived by or would go to, and then also that was willing to let you in and do that, and so that helped me tremendously. And then I always had I could go back and you know, my dad put me through some things you know at Lancaster if I wanted to do that, Um, but I had avenues. But it comes down to Albert the discipline of needing to do that, and a lot of guys if they don't have anybody forcing them to do that. And you know you've been in NFL locker rooms, there's a reason why guys come in, you know, after every weekend and they're pushing to make way, or they come in the offseason they're ten fifteen pounds overweight, just because if they don't have someone with their finger right on them. It puts a huge onus on them to be self motivated, and some of those guys aren't really that type of person. And I want to get to that part of it because I think that part is interesting. But like, first tell me about you, like your free agent experience that year too. I know this doesn't really relate to this year. This year obviously free agency happened, and those guys all have jobs and everything else at like, but I'm just sort of interested to hear that story, like how that all happened? And um, you know, I I can remember because I was covering it, Like there was you know, that whole moment in front of the in front of the p A and and in um in d C. And you know they had you know obviously Robert Kraft and Jeff Saturday and all those guys there and then the floodgates open. So what was that like, you know, not knowing? I mean obviously you know you've got your like I think you were married at the time, right, you have kids at the time or no? Yeah, So so like like there's a lot like I'd assume like that was crazy because no one you maybe didn't have a great idea of what was going to happen. Yeah, we had really no idea. We were hoping we're going to be back in Detroit, but like there was no certainties of that, and so you're watching the draft to be like okay, and they took one linebacker that year in the fifth round. It's like all right. It wasn't like they drafted two guys in the second third or something like that that you thought would come in and be immediate players and starters. And so you're like, okay, I think they're gonna be back. And thankfully, you know, my agent was Jimmy Sexton, and he had a pretty good pulse on it. He who had coach pretty well, Jim Schwartz, and it was like a lessen they want to bring you back. He's like, it's just gonna be a matter of what what the cost is and the how fast you wanted to happen, because there just wasn't a ton of movement, given the fact that you couldn't go visit anywhere, you couldn't talk to anybody, And then you got up there, they went through the physicals and anticipation. Then once everything was signed and released and then we were able to go out. But I think, you know, some of the veteran guys missed a couple like the free agent guys. There was a lull where like you didn't get to practice the first couple of days, and so we got a couple of days off of camp. And because I think, yeah, it was my wife got me. Ah, I always had been in camp on my birthday. It's August first. I remember that year Daniel Tosh was going on tour and I was able to see him at Vest Memorial in Columbus that year, and it was on my birthday. And then I had to leave and go up to Destroit like two days later, and I could just drive up. But it was just it was so weird and different because you just didn't know what was going to happen. And then like, hey, here's a one year deal. All right, it's gonna take it or leave because you look around like a I'm gonna call other teams and see what happens. If I don't take this, they may sign another guy right now. And so it was just it was such a tight window to get things done. You just had to take what you could get. Okay, So now I do want to get to that part about guys showing up out of shape, like could you tell? Like was it pretty easy to be? All? We had our conditioning tests and I always joke and because I was in pretty good shape. And you know Mike Rabel from being up in New England and be around him and you know, run with Rabes down here, and he was always, you know, a conditioning lawyer, just in great shape. So I always try to keep pace with him. And I always took pride and showing up and like trying to be able to run with the skill guys, the dbs and wide receivers for conditioning tests, and so watching some of those guys come in there, man, it was amazing. Our conditioning test was to cut three hundreds and it's not that hard, but you really can't fake it like you have to have had to run because that second one will get you. Your legs will start to lock up no matter how fast you are because there's just so many cuts. There's only twenty five yards and back. You have to do that six times with like two minute break and then do it again and you have about fifty five seconds to do it in And it was obvious. Man, you see those guys coming halfway through the second one, and it was just a matter of will at that point, thinking, I hope I can pass this thing. I don't want to get fined. I don't want to have to, you know, go through the protocol to get back in to run it until I pass it. Like I'm already invested in this can I just gut it out as their back lock up and they're just grinding away and then they throw up afterwards. It was just an unbelievable site. So who was in the best shape like it was there somebody who came back and it was just in supreme condition. I mean, there's certain guys like and Calvin Johnson was on that team. And Calvin is one of the best athletes, if not the best athlete I've ever seen in my life. Yeah, six four six five six five six six, maybe two hundred thirty eight pounds running a four or ford and could cut on a dime. And so like jogged that thing out. He look like you're saying bold out there. It wasn't even it wasn't even challenging for him, and everybody expected that. And you know, Calvin worked already. He was a great dude. He showed up, he worked already did his job, and because of that, you knew what you were going to get. And so watching him, it was like you knew that he was gonna be fine. Do you think there's something to the idea? Like, and I thought about a lot about this, like that this this is gonna test like programs, you know, Like this is gonna test like how you've built your team. This is gonna test like the kinds of guys you're bringing in your locker room. This is going to test the culture of your place and how close they are and if they've gotten together, Like do you buy into that? Like that this year is gonna be because if you look at like eleven, right, like it was the Giants and the Patriots and the Super Bowl, those are two pretty stable places, right, and then if you look at the championship game, the Patriots beat the Ravens and the the the Giants beat the Niners, and the Niners at Harbaugh who was really creative and had been working on to the forty on the twenty hour rule in college, and so like I just I sort of like look at this and like I'm wondering if you would agree with this that like maybe this is just a test of like how well put together teams are and what kinds of guys are in the locker room and how close the guys are to one another, that sort of thing. And that's that's a big piece of in the Saints or one of the other teams because they beat us, I forget who they were lost to, the lost the Niners in the divisional rounds Niners, and so you start looking at those teams. Those are traditional programs that have generally, and not I don't say that exclusively, but generally put a high emphasis on character of guys when they draft. And so when you do that, that's gonna pay dividends and situations like that because you have guys that are self motivated and when you either draft them or sign them as free agents, those guys are going to be the same dude that they were either in college or on their first deal because money and success, as they talked about, it only makes you more of what you already were addressed that with you before and you joke being from the Patriots, and that's that is the truth. And so when you bring in guys who have either been drafted higher draft toward they're they're happy to be on the team. They understand the obligation and what they need to do and how hard they need to work. And if as long as that's the case, like it's gonna be fine, Your team is gonna be good, all good. You bring in guys that you know, I had a great year on their last year, their deal, got a massive deal. But before that, they've always kind of been hurt. They've always been a little bit you know, the production had been up and down and maybe not the best locker room guys, like nobody really wants to play with. You play with guys like that, and you put enough of those guys in a room, like it's going to hurt your chemistry, and then they're not gonna show up ready to go. So they're gonna be injured, they're gonna be sitting down a training camp. You're gonna have a slow start, and those things just begin to compound and their issues. So, you know, teams that drafts and want to acquire smart guys that work hard to do all the right things, like those were the teams that had success because those are the guys that are able to like they just didn't show up without thinking about football for seven or eight months, Like I was running through my playbook from the year before, just thinking, okay, most likely going back to Detroit, let me just kind of freshen up on this, which a lot of other responsible players did too, because they wanted to show up and be prepared and not feel like they were behind the eight ball. The last thing I want to hit, well, I want to hit two last things in this, like, like the first one is, like how big a deal the injury prevention thing was, because I remember, like everybody had the radar up back then for like the soft tissue stuff and all of that. Obviously, like you said, like Achilles were up, a c l s were up. Like do you remember how careful you guys were during camp about that, like, and how careful the coaches and the trainers were about that. I remember this specifically because it's the only time in my life. I think it is the only time in the NFL I ever missed the practice. Um, I missed one in Dallas in the preseason when I like tweaked my ankle. In the real process, it's like you're up till eleven at night, up at five in the morning, Like listen, I'm just practicing, like this doesn't it's not even worth it, not practice, I went out and got it through it, So I missed that. This was the first time after my rookie year we had a day off. My wife and I went to a his ill advised we went to this fish restaurant that was in the mall parking lot of the hotel we were staying at for training camp. And for some reason, and I even thought about at the time, like I loved getting sushi when I getting that, and so I got some sushi from a mall parking lot and uh in Detroit, like probably not the best idea. My wife kind of advised against him, like listen, I've got an iron stomach. I'll be good. The next day I was. That night, I was hurting. I started throwing up. I'm hurting, and so in Dallas like under parcels and like just the way that that place was, like you showed up and then they told you. So I called the trainers, like, you know, do you think you have the flu? I'm like no, I'm pretty sure it's this fish eight last night. So I come on in and like, listen, just stay back there, like no, I'm gonna come in. I'm gonna see if I can go through it. So I go there and I really was just depleted that day and they're like, listen, you're not practicing, and like what are you talking about, Like this wasn't even an option unless you're throwing up on yourself. You were practicing in Dallas, Like we don't want you to pop a hamstring. We don't want this or that. I'm like, I'll be fine, man, and like, no, you're not. They literally wouldn't let me practice, like just take the I V S and sit in here. And I sat there and felt like it's because my They could see my weight was obviously down, you know, like five or six pounds from when I had waited out the night before, and they were like, we just don't want you to get hurt, like we need you to play, we don't want to have something that lingers. And I've never even heard that before, Like that wasn't even an option. And so destroy was probably a little more cautious than where I had been, But I think that there was that emphasis around the league, even though I came in in really good shape and was fine that hey, we we can't afford to have any soft tissue injuries. That's so like, that's probably the first time I've ever heard who she correlated to hamstrings. But uh, the the the other thing. I I'm just wondering this because you mentioned like how you felt like you had some good momentum coming off of the year. Do you ever think that that, Like, do you ever wonder like if it adversely affected your here, like if it if if that offseason might have screwed you a little man. I'm pulling, I'm pulling the skeleton out of the closet now, you're it's a great question, and I've thought about it before. Um, you know, things happen at points in time. I finished up my rookie year really playing really well, and that's when Parcels decides to retire. Why it comes in isn't quite a big a fan. Took me, you know too, and two seasons to build back up to where I was playing a lot again. Same thing kind of in Detroit, And you know, it's just I'm sure it's a victim of timing. Like, guys that things that are happening right now, and you know it's the same thing you're going through media stuff right now, guys, contracts, shop and for football, and nobody wants to commit to anything not knowing if there's going to be a season, and so yeah, I've thought about it. It's it's something that used to bother me a lot more. Um, you end up playing, you know, going to New England after that year because you know, Detroit instead of having a two, two or three year deal, you know, it's just one. And then you know, I was like, I want to go back to Detroit. It looks like it could be a better situation in New England. And hindsight, you know, probably maybe should have stay in Detroit but never get to experience you know, the Patriots system and everything and play with Tom and and a lot of that stuff. So it's just, yeah, it's something that I thought, I think about. I used to think about a lot more. Albert, thanks for bringing that up. Tried to bury that a little bit. But sometimes just timing and situation, I mean that's just all you can say. It's just it just stinks, dude. It's just a bad time sometimes, you know, when your time is up. I mean they even think about, like you know, like the guys I'm thinking about right now, like the tryout guys you know at the rookie tryout guys like you have stories and I think of like Adam Feeling in Minnesota and um and Malcolm Butler in New England, guys that like made it based on like showing up at a rookie mini camp and like they've they've they had a great weekend and one thing leads to another and now all of a sudden, those guys, you know, winds up wind up making tens of millions of dollars as NFL players, like the tryout guys get hurt, like maybe you know, an undrafted free agent, like it doesn't get as long a look. It's just it's it that that part of it's interesting to me and it's and it's not just to kind of like bring back memories for you, but it could affect a lot of guys. No, it's it's the what IFFs of life. And that's even the coaches. I guarantee you're looking at that as they're building rosters and they're gonna be very judicious with who gets reps depending on if you know the longer preseason, is a shorter preseason, or do they have all the game Like there's a multitude of questions, but you don't have those O t A s for those guys, and to be around the coaches, for the coaches to kind of learn who who are good dudes, who are not good dudes, who fall in line, and who's someone that if we give them a chance, they might not make it, but it's not because they're not working hard and they're getting into trouble off the field. And so you don't have those you know, twelve to fourteen weeks to show your wears and to show your personality. It's all gonna be condensed now and they're gonna be trying to get ready for the season as opposed to evaluate talent, which is a little bit more what you can do during O t A. So that they're gonna be a lot of what ifs for guys. And you know, some of those guys may catch on somewhere else and some of them might not, just because you won't have the body of work that you used to have, no question. All right, the two last things I want to touch on with you, um first and for those out there who don't know it, Ohio States one of the programs that's gone back that have gone back now. And Bobby, of course you live in Columbus. You're you know, you're you're close with the program. Um, you know. I'm just wondering if you've gotten any feedback from guys like that maybe gives you a little bit of a window into what the NFL's return is going to be like at the end of July, because we all saw that long list of protocols, right, there's like nine pages there and everything else, and so I'm just wondering, like what your knowledge is of the way it's running over at Ohio State now and how that might kind of, you know, give you a little bit of a window into what the NFL is gonna look like at the end of July. Well number one, I mean, I think they were testing everybody upon return, which is what the NFL will do, and guys are coming. You know, Higher States has a lot of Ohio guys, but they have a lot of national guys too, So you're gonna be pulling people from all over the country. So when they assess it all right, you've got your fourteen week quarantine if you're positive. Um, and there there's even more stuff that's been coming out now and even by the time the NFL gets there, who knows if this those things will all be the same, but they're having to lift like by position group, like ten at a time. That's just kind of where they are and what it is. And so they start in the morning and it goes through like three o'clock. As guy's cycling for forty five minutes, you know, they clean everything down in between that one another group grew up, go out and run, and they've just kind of been, you know, cycling it through. And so it's gonna be a lot different. You're not gonna have the interaction with your whole team like you typically would right now as you're working out. It's just literally your position group to keep the numbers in check. And so it's gonna be a lot of work. And you know for the coaches because you can't train you know, thirty five to forty guys at a time. You're you're training like eight to ten, and so that's that's gonna be a little bit tougher. The team building things that you normally do right now, like those are out the window. A lot of the competitive stuff you do, like that's gonna be out the window, and it's really gonna be focusing on because these are college guys now they're not even in the NFL where they went back, and if everything is shut down, like most of these guys don't have home gyms, and there's not the expectation that they would even be able to afford that stuff. And some of the guys might even be underweight just due to the fact that they don't have the means to provide themselves the nutrition when they're away from school in the same manner as they would when they're at school. And so that's some of the things that they're kind of battling. I anticipate a lot of this stuff continuing to change and evolve as we see a lot like Ohio has opened up a lot of things in state, and as you were talking, you know, up in Boston, things are beginning to open up. You know, it's slowly but surely. But as they get more data, that's when I think we'll begin to see things really begin to get set in stone and solidify. Here probably around the fourth of July to what this actually looks like. You'd hope, like the big college programs doing it first would kind of like give NFL teams like a clear blueprint of like okay, like they made this mistake and that's the benefit the NFL has, like even watching other sports, right, it's just getting having the ability to sit back and watch everybody else and what they do right, what they do wrong. Um. All right, last thing that I want to get to with you. Obviously you know it's been a different two weeks um in our country. Um, And like I wanted to ask you about this specifically because you know, you spent a good part of your life in locker rooms, and you've been in a lot of different NFL locker rooms, and I want to ask you about the Drew Brees situation. And just for a guy who's got like two decades of capital built up in those in those environments and has the relationships in the building, Like, what do you think this is gonna be like for Drew Brees going back into that locker room? Whenever they go back. You know the fact that they've already had a lot of conversations and you saw, you know, the Mario Davis come out and be very complimentary of him and talking about it takes true leadership to change one of you, Michael Thomas, you know, is social media posts and talked about how you know they're they're moving past this, and they've talked and discussing not knowing Drew like on an intensely personal level. I've only heard great things about him. And so whenever this stuff happens, and what you know, whether it was stuff with you know, Richie incognito or whatever, guy's getting to issue us in locker rooms, and I always say, look at the locker room and how the guys respond, because they're the people that know him better than anybody. As much as you know, I could sit here, you could sit here, or a million people across the million uh media platforms can say, well, they should do this or they should do that. I always look to the people that are closest like and how they judge it and what they say about and the fact that there's a lot of guys that they've begun to garner support that they begin to backing him now like twenty almost two decades of credibility and goodwill that can be stripped fairly quickly. But if you have all that, like those fond memories and and plus the type of person that you are, those things will be remembered quickly again. And so I Drew Brees continues to put his money or his mouth is, which I believe he's going to. He'll be out in the community. His teammates are gonna be by his side, and they're gonna judge him moving forward with this. I don't think it's gonna be an issue. The Saints have a very strong locker room. I think he'll win over the city of New Orleans again, and then there will be some holdouts and there are people who will never get over it. But you have a hard time. I just have a hard time saying, you know, there are people that are just gonna condemn him for this forever, and he can never win the city of New Orleans when you have guys who are in his locker room who don't look like him, who are of a different race, who came out initially abruptly, very abruptly against it, talk to him and then like, okay, we're on the same page moving forward, and you're gonna see is And as long as there's nothing else that comes out or he doesn't do anything that's is going to erase any of that and only try to enhance, you know, their team and the city moving forward. I think there will be fine time heals everything and He's done a lot of good things for a long time, and so I think it will begin to turn fairly quickly once everything goes on again. You know, I've always thought too, Like I've said that a few different place, but I've always thought to like the one thing that like the one trait that I think, like personality trait that most football players have, like most pro football players have that I've come in contact with. I don't know why. You guys all have an incredible BS radar, Like you can tell when somebody's look, and I don't know why that is, but it's something that I've noticed that, like if someone's full of it, you guys sniff that out pretty quickly, And so I would think that that probably helps in situations like this where you know they're gonna be able to tell pretty quickly whether or not the guy's being genuine. Absolutely. The reason that is because you get lied too so much by coaches in front office, and so I guess eventually you get to figure out who's full of crap and who's not. And that's the thing with Drew, Like those guys like they would smell it. Man, if there was like I don't know what's in Drew Brees is hard and I can't sit here and testify to it. But the guys that interact with him on a daily basis, they know as well as anybody what Drew brees about and whether he misspoke and fully didn't understand it kind of stuck to his previous Indian And here's the thing, Like the people, two things can be true at the same time. Albert, you can love your country and you can also love to want to improve your country because it's not perfect and realize both of those things. And I think that's what Drew is probably trying to reconcile. How do I express both of those things, acknowledge everything of what it means to me and my family, and understand that it's not great for everybody and we need to try to improve it for everybody as well. Like, those two things don't have to be contradictory. They can both coexist, and I think that that's where he's getting on board with it and trying to figure out how can I push one and still and I still appreciate the other. Yeah. I talked to him Nate Boyer about this. He brought up a great um. He brought a great great brought up a great analogy. He said, it's like your kids. It's like if your kid screws up or your kid does something wrong, like you still love him, but you've got to be hard on him. And it's not great parenting to just tell him that no matter what he does is right. It's you know, good parenting is being tough on him sometimes and may and him better. And so I thought that was sort of And Nate knows as well as anybody, but you know, he was, you know, he was there with Cap and you know, he said he agrees with breezes point of view, like he feels the same pride when he stands for the anthem, but he also, like has you know, he's open minded to the way other people think about it too, which I thought was an interesting way to put it. Anyway, Um, Bobby, I always appreciate the time. You can catch him on ESPN. UM he's on Get Up. You can catch him one Carpenter Rothman if you are in Columbus, Bobby, I always appreciate having me out Albert from one black guy to another. I always appreciate it, sir, Thank you very much. All right, go bucks, all right, Well, I always appreciate Bobby coming out. I hope you guys have noticed too. One of the things that we've tried to do in the podcast is bringing guys with recurring guests. I think the conversation is better that way, where I know I've got chemistry with guys. That's why we have Bobby, and that's why we have Brady Quinn and that's why we have Jordan Palmer and aggression. Of course, we want to give you guys good solid football conversation. We know it's gonna be an entertaining listen. Um, we'll jump right into the sixth pack. You guys know how that works. Every week I put the call out for questions on Twitter, I pick six. If I pick yours, that means that I give you a like on Twitter. I hit that little heart there and I give you an answer here in the podcast. Question number one, this is coming from Mark Hartley, that's at Mark def Smith. Who are the top five defenses to watch this year? And I thought it was interesting the way you asked this. Not the top five defense, it's the top five defenses to watch. So I'm gonna give you five defenses that I'm looking forward and seeing how how things turn out for him. The number one group will be the Chicago Bears, and the reason why they're still they're just in this window where you know, how much does the group have left? And you look at the group Kyle Fuller and Eddie Jackson and Acheam Hicks and Khalil Mac there's just there's still a lot of talent there, but guys either in the heart of their prime or the back end of their prime. And so can they be dominant again? They'd be one of the defenses to watch the forty niners or another one again. This is sort of for obvious reason, it's just a dominant group last year. What does Nick Bosa becoming year to Yeah, Javon kin Law, you subtract the Forrest Buckner, um, you bring back Kwan Alexander. It's just there's a lot of moving parts there, but a group that was really goodness potential to continue to ascend um. The third group, I think that this is gonna be a really interesting one, the Baltimore Ravens. They got better over the course of last year, a little bit of a shaky start, but things settled down for them in October and now they add Patrick Queen as a rookie first round pick a linebacker that's gonna be interesting. Marlon Humphrey quietly emerged is one of the best um corners in football last year. They've got pieces. They've got a really, really smart defensive coordinator in Wink Martindale. They've got an offense that's really geared to playing with the top defense. When you run the ball at the Ravens do on offense, Shorten's games makes the game easier for your defense. The Ravens will be another one. Number four will be the Steelers, and I just think last year was too such a turn point for them and losing Bennett kind of opened the door for the defense to step back up and I think probably come as close to being what they used to be back in the day when they had Troy Paula Malu and Ryan Clark and James Harrison and Lamar Woodley, like they just haven't been the same since then. And you know, you start to see them taking steps in that direction. And they've got a lot of young stars in that group, from t J. Watt to to Devin Bush to to make of Fitzpatrick. It's a it's a really it's a good young group and has got potential to get better. UM Number five, The Chargers and the reason why the Charges are freak show on defense and you add Kenneth Murray now linebacker to a group that's already got Joey Bosa, Melvin Ingram and and Derwin James. It's just you look at it and it's like I felt for a little while now like that group, Like it just feels like they could you could come to one of those. It could be like the Niners last year where they just like everything comes together at once and they get really good all at once. Question number two, this is coming from s R N y At sham Shiros and uh too. If Daniel Jones in the Giants offense is an amazing year, does Jason Garrett get another head coaching job. I don't know if it will happen after one year, UM, but I don't think that I would rule out the idea that Jason could wind up getting another job down the line. And one of the biggest reasons why I'm not sure he was really able to run a program the way he wanted to in Dallas because of the way that Jerry is and the way that organization is run and it's not a knock on either guy. But even though they had that long term relationship, I don't know how good a fit Jerry was as an owner for a guy who wanted to run the program the way that I think Jason would have liked to have run the program. And Jason, I think his way is to be very buttoned up. I think, if you know, you could draw it up, he would have that being a Nick Saban type of program. And it's really hard to run that type of program in Dallas, and so I'd be interested to see what Jason Garrett would do somewhere else due and to me, he's in a great situation to get that shot. You know, if you look at it like you're going to the Giants, obviously high profile, being in New York and getting to work with a quarterback who's coming off a good, promising year one with a strong finish. If Daniel Jones is really good over the next two years, We've seen it over and over again, there's no better ticket to a head coaching job than being able to develop a young quarterback. And Jason developed Dak Prescott. Now maybe if you know, he finds a way to develop Daniel Jones with the Giants. I would not rule out the idea that he could wind up being a head coach against somewhere. Question number three from Ethan l that's at Ethan Sand. Are the Cardinals good enough to win the NFC West. I don't know they're good enough to win the NFC West, but I could see them in contention for a playoff spot. And I am I'm just paying attention to Kyler Murray in the m v P race. And that doesn't mean I think he's gonna win the m v P. I'm just paying attention to him in the m v P race. And really it's because of the elements around him UM, and he has some of the elements that the I would say, like Carson Wentz and Patrick Maholmes and Lamar Jackson had the last three years in putting together a breakout second season, right, And so if you want to go down the list, you can go down the list. All three of those guys had a really good investment UM in the offensive tackle position in front of them. The Cardinals invested in DJ Humphries and drafted Josh Jones this year. Creative head coach. He's got a creative head coach in um in in in in Cliff Kingsbury creative offensive play caller. Obviously that's the same guy, Cliff Kingsbury. Uh. And then you know it's just a stud skill position weapon. And for for Carson Wentz, I would say it zach Ertz for and people don't people look at the receiver. Zach Ertz is an elite tight end. For for Patrick Mahomes, it was it was definitely Tyreek Hill. And for Lamar Jackson, he had great balance there. But Mark Andrew's a really good tight end. Hollywood Brown was a really good receiver. It's just he had good skilled talent there, and and and Kyler Murray has that, and so I like Kyler Murray having a big second year. Are they good enough to win the NFC West? No, but I do think they have some things in place where you could see them competing um for a wild card spot, especially now they've gone into seven wild card teams in each conference or seven playoff teams in each conference for division champions three wild cards. Question number four beflow girl at Seul Sac. Why does everyone hate on Josh Allen in the Buffalo Bill. I don't think people hate on the Buffalo Bills. I do think that there's some been some hating on Josh Allen, and I'm not ready to say that, Josh. I'm not ready to throw in the towel on Josh Allen yet. Um. He looked good at points last year. He's got a good offensive coordinator working with him in Brian day Ball. And I think because we've seen some of these quarterbacks developed so quickly over the last few years, the timeline has been shortened where we look at guys after two years and we're willing, we're willing to give up on them. And you know, obviously my homes and Wentz and Lamar, all those guys developed fast. And so Josh Allen. You gotta remember, like he went into a situation in year one where it was a total rebuild. Like after that first year the Bills ripped the band aid off, carried all the deadcat money. This is a guy who's seen this sort of a developmental type of quarterback to begin with, and it's it was up and down in year one, it got better in year two. I think there's progress there, and so he has hated on I think because the timeline of the timeline for quarterback development has been shortened, it's been sped up. Um. But I would not give up on the idea that that that that Josh Allen could wind up becoming a very good, a very very good quarterback. And he's been to the layoffs are already within two years, so that's not exactly a bad thing either. Question number five from Dan McDonald, that's at Dan cmc very curious. YEA, the owners navigate television contract negotiations during a time in which we could see impacted ratings viewership due to mass protests. Dan, I'm not buying it. I just I don't think people are going to tune out football this fall because of anthem protests. I know the numbers were down in sixteen and seventeen. I know that the the NFL bounced back in eighteen and nineteen when the anthem protests were less of an issue. I just I think they're gonna be okay and like and I think the power of pro football to me is going to carry them through. I just don't see it. Even if the ratings were affected by the election this year, I just don't see it really affecting the TV negotiations going forward. These TV networks want football. The the NFL is gonna have a ton of leverage. You know, they're gonna have the streaming platforms that are probably gonna be trying to compete to have at least some form of NFL on their on their platforms. I just I don't see where, um where the NFL is going to take a haircut when it comes to television negotiations because of the protests. Finally, question number six from Warren that's at w LAD based on the lack of offseason practice, do you think this year will be harder or easier for a U d f A to make the fifty three. I think it'll be harder for a U d f A to make the fifty three. Bobby and I talked about it a minute ago. Um, I think for an undrafted free agent it's gonna be harder because with the shortened training camp time, you're gonna have less opportunity for guys the teams. The team is less invested in and so it's gonna be harder for those guys to stick out. Because a coach's focused in August now is going to be in getting his starters ready to go, and that means you're gonna have to award starting positions faster. That means you're gonna have to carve out rolls faster. That means you're gonna have to use your time more efficiently. And they don't have They already don't have May in June, and I don't think they're gonna have as much of an opportunity in July and August. So you know, I do think that they're gonna be some guys that are gonna slip through the cracks. And maybe there are some guys that wind up getting cut and are on the waiver wire in September, and those guys wind up performing for other teams in October and you're thinking to yourself, well, why didn't this guy make it with Team X. I think that's definitely going to exist this year because of the circumstances that everybody is under. And so Warren I would tell you that I think it's gonna be harder for you to U d f A to make the fifty three and two thousand and twenty. Appreciate you guys coming out as always. We love your feedback, we want your feedback. We're gonna use your feedback to try and make the show better. You know where to get to me on all of my social platforms at Albert Brier on Twitter, at Albert are Bury on Facebook, at Albert Underscore Brier on Instagram and listen to all the MMQB podcasts. My podcast, The week Side Podcast with Jenny and Connor, Gary's pod cast on Monday mornings. You guys can get us all on one feed. Now, all you gotta do is hit that button, hit that subscribe button and it will. These will pop into your feed every day of the week. Some weeks will even have the Friday Weekend Review podcast. We didn't do it last week because of everything going on, but we will get back to doing that. Every one of those podcasts again. You can get them in one place just by hitting that subscribe button. And you can find that subscribe button on Spotify, Stitcher, tune in, Google Play, Apple podcasts, wherever you guys get your show, same time next week. I'll see you guys. That ye