All right, Well we're back with another one of these my vacations. Still going on, winding down a little bit um. But like I said, I've said the last couple of weeks, we want to give you guys a little something different here on on the podcast. And so we give you a coaches, will give you general managers, and we want to give you an idea who these guys are and kind of what got them where they are. And so you know, one of the guys that that that I asked about doing this a couple of weeks ago, he's had a pretty good year for himself. So we're gonna welcome in now. He is the general manager of the world champion Kansas City Chiefs. Brett Feacham, Brett, have you gotten used to hearing that yet? Like? Is that sunk in? Like fully yet? Like that You're gonna get to hear that for the next six months or so. No, I haven't gotten used to it yet, but it does. It does have a nice nice rink to it, for sure. And uh yeah, what an amazing season and uh amazing ride, I guess. The only the bad part is we really haven't gotten a chance to enjoy it. Um with everything that's going on right now, But at a certain point I'm sure we'll still get a chance to to look back and just remember what a great run and write it was. Okay, So just to kind of set it up for everybody, I actually the previous two of these that I did, I did sort of before my vacation. This one has uh, you know, me and Brett of Worth through timing a little bit. And kind of funny story about this one. We were actually initially scheduled to do this on a Monday, and Brett said, hey, can we can we back it up a little bit? And I was like, yeah, I share, no problem whatever. Um, I got some flexibility here time wise. Little did I know, um that the largest contract in sports history was getting pushed across the goal line. So here's where I would start with you, Brett, Like, if I had told you, you know, fifteen years ago, when you're just getting started in the NFL, um that at forty one years old, you'd be negotiating the largest contract in sports history as a general manager of general manager of a world championship team, what do you think you would have said to me? I would have certainly said you were crazy, And you know, It's funny, Albert Day you even mentioned that because during UH over the weekend, UM, right before signing Path Mahomes, I was in the office with our with our cap team, Brent Tillis and Chris Shay, and at one point when we were getting close to what we thought would be a finishing point, I actually said to them, I said, can you believe that we're sitting in in the here right now, UM, working on the biggest contract in the NFL's history and and the biggest contract in US sports history. It almost seems surreal. And on on Monday at the signing I said the same thing to Chris, I said, I've had a couple of guys from Pennsylvania UM getting together UM back in seventeen talking about Pat Mahomes, And here we are, three short years later, UM, working on the biggest deal in in in sports history. So UM certainly would have said, you're crazy. Still surreal, and it's been It's been quite all right so far, and we're certainly even looking for better things in the future. Is there like any like element as a general manager swallowing hard when you do something like that, or you know, I'm sure you know obviously you've got the ultimate confidence in the player. UM, but is there like any sort of like uneasiness or like like like what's running through your head when you know you see the pen go to paper and the thing's done and pushed across. Well, you know, I think at that point, you know, you're you're living in the moment, so you know, you're you're excited about the short term. I think in the back of your mind when you're you're putting something like that pen to paper, you're just you know, you're you're seeing your prayers that the player just stays healthy. Because I think we all know that, barring injury, uh sky's limit for Pat mahomes Um, his talent is is against something the league hasn't seen before. Um. And another thing to Albert about how Pad is. And this always gets lost in the shuffle because Pat is such a rare talent arm strength and creativity and instincts. But I don't think people realize just how smart he is. I mean he you know, people will will talk about how Brady and Manning will just um be able to use their mind and and just uh put their teams in unique positions, and that gets overlooked for pat because he's so freaky athletically. UM, but the kid has a photographic memory. I mean, he's really smart. So you know, we think at four years old, even that aspect of the game is something that you know him with Andy Reid for the next hopefully ten years. UM. I joke with coach I said, he's gotta go ten more now too. So but I think, you know, that's the cool thing. So when you're putting pen to paper on something like this, you know, you're just praying that you know, the kids stays healthy and and he gets to UM add to this already great legacy. All right, So I want to kind of line back now, Uh, you know when you got started and a lot of people don't know this, but you know what Brett's quarterback at the University of Delaware was, Uh a guy who's been pretty successful himself, uh in in in the NFL. And that's Matt Naggy, who's now the head coach of the Bears. And I so I want to take you back there. You guys are pretty successful there. Obviously that's a story program at the one double A level. UM had you and Matt like back then, UM had discussions about what you were gonna do post playing, Like had that ever come up? And if you want to even go further back than that, like, had you ever thought about, you know, working in football after you were done playing, Like, like when did that really kind of thought process begin for you? Yeah, I mean that's a good question. I don't know if I can say that. Throughout my my high school and and and um, playing career at Delaware, I think, like of the rest of young fletes, we are we are all delusional and thinking that one day we're gonna play in the NFL. Right, Um. And then now Matt and I are actually from the same area in Pennsylvania. Now, our high schools didn't play, but um, we were so close, um in regards to where we both lived, and we certainly knew of each other. And then when we got to Delaware, we certainly became close friends right away. Uh. Matt had a great career. He went onto the arena ball. At one point after Matt graduated a year before me, and he was playing arena At one point after graduation, Matt reached out to me and wanted me to, Um, there was a try out there for I think the New Jersey Dragons or New York Dragons one of those teams, and and wanted me to go up there and and kind of start that. But at that point I already had a graduate graduate assistantship position for Melia Delaware. So uh, there was no point that Matt and I ever talked about uh working in the NFL um or him coaching in the NFL. It was simply went to Delaware. Great friendship we had both had pretty good Matt had a great career. I had a good career. Afterwards, Matt kind of went on played arena. I stayed there at Delaware and and worked on a graduate degree and stayed in touch and uh. And then it wasn't until after where I got hooked up with coach Ree that I reached back out to Matt. But I would say that prior to myself working with the Eagles, I don't think Matt and I ever once discussed because we probably thought it was never a possibility of working in the NFL. Was that tempting, Like the idea of trying to continue playing, Like, I don't know what your opportunity was after you got done at Delaware and you were I think you're last year playing. There was a one right like so, like, was it tempting the idea of maybe giving it a shot and playing professionally at some level. Yeah, you know I thought about it because you know, you have so much love for the game, and it's all I've really be known and done my entire career. You know, I'm from a small town in in in Pennsylvania. Uh My dad still coaches to this day. My older brother, uh went to Lafayette and was a safety there. My younger brother was a captain and played running back on on Princeton's team. So I'm from a football family. That's all I know. It's all I've ever wanted to do. So there was certainly a part of me that, you know, thought about it, But I think the timing was just so out of whack where I had basically accepted the grad graduate assistant ship position. I was already in school for three or four months, and I was deep into it many when I got the call, And you know, luckily for me that I used some common sense and just realized that, um, I wasn't good enough to to continue on for a very long time. So at least I had some common sense. But yeah, you certainly think about it just because you love the game so much and you want to be a part of it in anyway. Okay, So I'm assuming then your dad being a coach, like your idea was to get into coaching, maybe, like was scouting in the back of your mind or was that something that you had thought of for when you did start at the graduate assistant job at Delaware. Yeah, never thought of scouting. Never crossed my mind. Uh, exactly right. Once. Once I got done playing and I and I started down the g path, I just thought, you know, at some you know, really I would probably say in my mind, and my thought process was I want to stay in coaching, had a good career, della, where college football coaching would be an avenue that I thought would be, Um, it would make the most sense for me. So as I was doing, um, you know, my graduate assistantship, I really thought that I would go down the coaching route like my dad dad, and um, you know, get my g a ship and and just look for uh, start up positions and just kind of try to work my way up the coaching ranks. So I never really thought of of scouting until I got to Philadelphia. But um, you know, and really operate. The way this worked was while I was a graduate assistant. It's kind of crazy because this branch is down to so many different different areas. So I got recruited by Tubby Raymond. Now my senior season was Tubby's last in coaching UM and when I became a g A at Delaware, Tubby retired. Uh Casey Keeler took the job, so Ksey Keeler hi hires Kirk Sharaka from Villanova. Now Kirksharaka is now the offensive court mayor of Penn State, but at the time Casey hired Kirk Sharaka as the offensive coordinator. So my first year as a grad assistant, my head coach retired, I was working with the new head coach and Casey Keeler. His new offensive coordinator was Kirk Sharaka, who had just come from Villanova. Now, at the same time Kirk comes from Villanova, another coach from Villanova goes to Philadelphia. That man was James Urban, who was now the quarterback coach for Lamar Jackson in Baltimore. So Kirk rock James Urban, they're both working at Villanova. Kirk Sharrocka takes the O C job at Delaware, James Urban becomes the coaches a Uston at Philadelphia. I know Kirk because lo and behold, Kirk was at Penn. So actually it was I think it was Penn. I got get my stories where I think both these gentlemen were coaching at Pen, not Villanoka. So apologize for that. But Kirk, because as I mentioned, my brother went to Princeton, Kirk knew my family, knew my younger brother during the recruit of the Pen Princeton recruiting deal. So my first few weeks of working with Kirk Sharrock and our new coach at Delaware, Kirk hits me up and says, Brett, one of my friends at Penn is now the assistant to the head coach of Philadelphia. He's looking first some interns of work training camp and I think, you know that'd be good for you to meet James then, And as you're working with me here at Delaware, branch out and meet James at uh, you know, working training camps with the Phillip Phildephia Eagle. So while I was jaying, I spent my summers working with Kirk Sharaka obviously my fault, and in Springs working with Kirks Rock and Delaware, and I spent my my summers working with James Urban um as an intern to training camp intern with the Philadelphiailes. So that's kind of how um I originally got my foot in the door. And it was really just a matter of a coach that was recruiting. My brother just happened to be hired at the same time. I became a g adult. That's crazy. So what was it like when you were working with with Urban? What was your job? Like? What were you so then I'm assuming that would that have been in the summer of what year? Like that would have been like oh two oh three, like right in there. Yeah, it was, uh, I think the first summer probably a four or five, I think it was. It was theo's first year in Philly. Was the first year I interned with James. It was crazy, Yeah, so what was what was what? What was your job like then? Like what were you doing? Like? Like what was what do your day to day look like? Because I'm assuming like your titles like coaching intern, right, but like you're probably not doing much actual coaching, I would think, right, Oh no, no, not all I was Actually um, I was assisting the assistance to the head coach. So at that time it was a little bit of crowd control during practices. It was uh stocking fridges, UH, putting up signed for the coaches, taking coaches to in front practice. Uh two A m McDonald runs for the coaches. I mean, you name it. Uh, you know, we did it. So it certainly wasn't a glamourus job, but it was a job that it really you know, ground at you. And you know, after going and playing college sports, you know you're you know, you're used to um kind of doing things your way, but this really humbled you right from the beginning, and it really um allows you to take a step back and take pride in the little things. And you know, here's another funny, funny story to Albert. So there had been a long history of kind of working camp and getting your way or getting your foot into into the door with the Eagles. So I had done this summer internship with James uh in the Philadelphia Eagles, and I would again stop fridges and post signs and drive coaches around and run off copies of the playbook and delivered playbooks. Should I even remember the first week or two getting a call from James and saying that Terrell Owens doesn't like the location of his dormo bed and we were, you know, swapping out beds for t O and and it was crazy, but there had been there had been a kind of a history where, um, you know, if if the assistant to the head coach got a chance to become a quality control coach and move up the ranks, that you know, the these interns, since they were a camp and knew the assistant coaches so well, they would be good candidates to hire. So my first summer, UH, work my tail off for James and the Eagles, and nothing became available. The next summer, worked my tail off and and nothing became available. The third summer, now by this time, Albert I had I had finished my my school work and my g A was over. So right after that, Delaware offers me a job kind of uh, operations assistant. Now I'm a young kid, and you know, I don't have any money, so they offered me the job. I didn't know if I was still gonna be able to intern, um because I think they offered me the job well before training camp, maybe maybe in January February took the job. Um, as an operations um the director of Delaware in January or February. And then as we got close to the camp, I reached out to James again and I said, you know, I just took this job, but I don't care. I'm gonna pack all my vacation I can and work with you again. And so James called me back. He said, awesome, love to hear it. Get you back here again. I went to my employer at the University of Delaware and said, he I'm gonna you know, I'm gonna take my vacation time and I'll see you guys, because I'm gonna spend another two and a half weeks now Lehigh and work training camp. I just didn't have enough vacation time. Uh. And they and this is obviously my alma mater film nothing against Delaware, but you know they just said, well, listen, we just hired you, we just committed toe, and you know you really don't have any vacation time build up. You just took the job, and you know we have a lot of stuff going on getting ready for our false season. So they just said that they didn't have enough people people to just um fill that job. So they wouldn't let me go. So I called James and I tell James was like, oh, I'm like sick to my stomach because I can't do it. Now. James City understood, and he said we would just double back again if you had more vacation time in the following year. So I don't. I don't work that third summer because of my job. So who does James urban higher the intern um A guy by the name of Kevin Stefanski, right, so James, now, yeah, that's wild. So James then hires Kevin Stefananski, who was a pen guy. Right, there's that connection back to Pen. So James hires Kevin Stefanski and right after the season, Brad Children's gets the Minnesota job. Because again these assistant to the you know, these camping turns, get to do a lot of stuff for the assistant coaches. So James Highers kept Kevin Stefancy to work turn that year. He goes to Minnesota and I remember calling my dad and I said, I am the biggest idiot ever. I if I would have just not taken that job at Delaware and had had the opportunity to continue to work as a summer intern, I would be with potentially with coach Children's and in Minnesota and my football coaching crew in your way. Um, I screwed up. I'll never get this opportunity again, and I will never scratch r or it's the NFL. So. UM. I joke with Matt all the time, I said, you know, the NFC North. You should be thankful because you know Kevin Stefanski and uh by my heir and Matt Naggie, by my relationship with him, are are both uh working in the NFC North. Yeah, so what do you like? So you have like, what how does that operate that that opportunity arises after Kevin leaves then to go back to Philly. Yeah, so then Kevin um. Um. So Kevin goes with Brad to Minnesota. Um. And then here's where I got the big break. So James, I think James knew. I was disappointed, and obviously because I had worked with him for two summers, so I can't work the third summer. Kevin goes, Um, Kevin gets the internship position. Then he goes with Brad to Minnesota. Uh. The coming up now on the on the next summer training camp, I'm calling James and I you know, like, look, I got my vacation, I'm going and and you know, I'm all in. And the phone kind of goes dark for two or three months, and I think that that it's it's not a possibility anymore. And then kind of out of the blue, James called me back and said, Hey, I know you've been calling trying to get back in interning a training camp. Sorry for not calling you, but I just want to let you know I just got promoted from coaches assistant to quality control, so now the actual positions open. And because you had worked for a few summers, you know, I coach Read asked me for some recommendations. He has a mile long stack of resumes on his desk. But um I did tell coach at the great job you did as an intern, explain why you didn't work the third year because you took the job. Coach has his has your name and resume on his desk, and um I put a good word in for you. So um from there I got to interview for that assistant coach position assistant to the head coach position with the Philadelphia Egels. But uh, James, certainly from from bringing me on as an intern the first two years, Um too recommended me, recommending me to coachach Read after he got promoted up to quality control coaches. Uh, a big part of why I am where I am. So that's almost gonna be like a sensor relief then, right, like you think you blew it and then okay, I didn't blow it, right, Like I would think like that that that would sort of be the mindset there. Um, what do you think, like, is there something that you think that you did, um that really impressed James the point where he didn't feel compelled to go to to to to Andy, Like, was there was there something that that you would pull out and said, uh, younger people, you know like this, these are a few things that I did that I think really probably stood out that got my foot in the door and kept it there. So when a job did come open, somebody was advocating for me to get it. Yeah, you know, it's just reliability and dependability. So when I was an intern, as you asked before, Albert, you know there's any football opportunities in regards to while you're working as an intern, showing your knowledge or what you can do or or or how you're passionate about coaching and the act would be no. I mean it was literally it was steak and tape. It was uh, stocking fridges, it was um, you know, printing out playbooks. Um. But you know, when you're going through a summer training camp back in the day, it was fairly large process at Lehigh because camp was so spread out. I mean, it was days, and it wasn't you weren't getting paid virtually anything. And it was just all grunt work. So when you get a chance to to work for for James like I did, and um, knowing the work was was grunt work and and it was all the non glamor of stuff. And and if you can take pride in those things and and be dependable and be reliable, take pride in in um such basic asks and and and and job tasks. I mean, if you can do the little things really well and take pride and take pride and getting up early to clean out the trash and um, you know, drive coaches around and and stay up late to do McDonald runs and stocked fridges and um, you know, run off the playbooks. I mean, if you're gonna wake up every day at five am and you're gonna stay stay up all night, and and basically do little mundane things and do those with great pride and great attention to detail that you know, those are are the guys that are grounded, you know the right way and know how to to really build on a foundation. So I think that just the ability to kind of do that grunt work for two years and always show up and and always bring a lot of energy, I think that James knew that would be a good fit with coach. Read Okay, so what was your job then that coach's assistant job where you move into James's old job. Um, and I'm looking at here, it looks like you did for two years, right and oh eight? No? Nine? So was that just more or less like anything that Andy needed? And at that point did you have a relationship with Andy going into that? It sounds like you sort of didn't write like that. James had to really vouch for you. Um, where was your relationship at with Andy going into that? What was that job like? Yeah, so I didn't really have, as you mentioned, a relationship with coach at all. James didn't vouch for me, and you know Andy because Andy has a photographic memory as well, and he probably remembered me just in passing at training camp as an intern. You know, certainly remember the face. Oh yeah, I think I remember him. Didn't have relationship, uh, And it was so the assistance to the head coach position. You're exactly right, you're basically they're on the coaches there. And and that was another the reason why I think that out that James, I believed that I would be a good fit just because I'm always around right and to this day, you know, I don't know if I get in as early as coach, but I'm always around the facility. So you're on coaches time. When coaches in at five am, you gotta be at in at five am, and if coach needs anything at two am, you need to be around at two am. Um. It was a little bit of a hybrid of of what the internship was like now filtering in some football so certainly on coaches watch and UM working on typing out the game plans for him and working on um, you know, little things in the office for coach. So it was a little bit of a hybrid where you're still stocking coaches fridge and you're still doing um McDonald runs, and you're still picking up laundry Uh. But then you're also getting to sit and watch tape with coach and you're you're, um, when coach finishes up a game game plan, I mean you're typing up the game plans, and you're getting to read his writing and how he sees things, and um, you know he's gonna give you some some you know, data analytics to to work on for him, and some coverage stuff and and um, different formational stuff and and how teams use coverages. So it was a hybrid of the internship where you're doing a lot of the groundwork with some introductory football stuff. Um. But really, I think the most important aspect of that relationship was I just got to be around him and I just got to see him go to work, see how he handles different situations, see his his attention to detail. Um. And I think I hit this at the right time in regards to where I am now. When Coach got to Philadelphia, he was a football coach and that's what he did, and he had player personnel people around him. As coach grew in that position. Um, by the time I got there, and in oh seven or oh eight, Coach was basically coach SLA g M. So he had like a dual role where I would say most people that was were coaches assistants. Prior to me, James, I think Sean McDermott had that position. Uh. It was when you worked for coach, you did the grunt work and you you just worked on football. By the time I got there, coach was also doing a ton of player personnel stuff. So when I got there, I was doing the grunt work, doing some football on the fall, and then really helping him with some um personnel stuff in the spring. So hey, go grab me these back in the day. It's so long ago and time so fast. We still have some some videos. I remember going to the back of the philadelph Eagles complex, the back locker room there or the back um in the back corner of the player personnel department. We used to have the old vhs and tapes and we're grabbing like these yellow tapes and um, I was making cut ups for him of players and hey, I want to watch receivers. Do you want to watch with me? Grab me these guys tapes. I want this guy, this guy, this guy. I would go down and pick up some of these, uh videos, and we would just go through and I'd be at the office on night, coach, just watching guys and watching small school players. I remember we joke about it all the time. I forget what's draft it was, but I was still coaches assistant, so I guess it was those seven o eight one of those years where it was literally two three am and we were watching at the time. This is right before we drafted to Shaun Jackson, so we didn't have a punt returner. We were watching a Division two or Division three highlight reel of of some small receiver punt returner, and coach looks over to me, he says me, She said, it's two am, the night before the draft, and we're watching some Division to punt returner. How crazy are weight? And I said, we are crazy, coach, but we love it. So that's just I mean, that's that's coach. I mean, you know, it's it's it's uh, spending weeks and and months preparing for Bill Belichick defense and how he's gonna crack the code to being up at two am watching some Division three punt returner. That is that no one's radar. He doesn't miss a trick. So I got two questions on that. But the first one is like, the first one is pretty simple, Like I'd imagine that's an incredible experience for a young guy being Andy Reid's right hand man, you know, just as you're sort of trying to turn the corner in the business. Um what like, because there's something that people don't know about Andy that you picked up over that time that's like, really, maybe I don't know, Like, isn't just about him being a good coach, it's just about him being a successful person. Was there anything that you just like, just being around him as much as you were, you were able to pick up and maybe apply to your own career. Absolutely, I think you know this is this is why. This is the reason if you don't know and you read Um, obviously people you know in our business do. But people if they don't know him, if they want to know why Andy Reid is so love and so revered, it is absolutely the way he treats people. Um. And you had asked about what I take away most from that experience, which was amazing. What I take away most from that experience is I knew one of football in regards to comparing my knowledge to coach. Read right, I you know, I'm a football player University of Delaware two years graduate assistant. Here, I am with UM, a very successful UH coach in the NFL who's obviously accomplished so much, been to a bunch of Fennessey Championship games. UM, you know, known as one of the best coaches in the NFL. When I first started working for him, the first few weeks and months, I was intimidated because I just I didn't know what he wanted, how he wanted it. And I was intimidated because I'm working with a guy that knows so much football. I mean, how am I gonna add anything to the table. But he would often ask me for my thoughts and opinions, and I'm saying to myself, why does he care what I think? I know nothing right? And it was that thought process where you can learn something from anybody UM. And I still kind of carry that with me today because everyone's gonna have different life experiences and different knowledge that they bring to the table. So when I'm in my personnel meetings and we have young interns or first is working for us, UM, I always work with that mindset that they're gonna bring something to the table. Maybe they saw something I haven't seen or maybe they have experienced something I haven't experienced, and that their their point of view is going to be something that is complete, completely unique, and I can learn from them. And I think that when you talk about and you really talk about a guy that has zero ego and he wants to know what you have to think. I remember when I was his assistant and we had a young intern walked by coach. They were talking about a college football game, and you know the kid that the young intern, I forget who it was that said the coach, Hey, coach, did you watch this game? And coaches like, no, you know what been? Well? Man, this this and that, this team, you know this uh PAF ten team. This receiver at Oregon State was just amazing. I think he's gonna be a great bro. Oh yeah, what's his name? And a week later coach would grab me. Remember when the intern came by and mentioned that, why now, um who grab me? His team? I want to watch it. He values people's opinions authentically, right, So it's not like it's not just let me know what you think. Okay, I know more than you, so I appreciate what you're telling me. But I'm and you read and I've been doing this, you know, like he values people's opinions. He values your opinions if you're a UH, if you're an opposing team's head coach, he values your your opinion. If you're a g M, if your director, player personnel, if you're the lead cap guy, he values your opinion. If you're a first year intern. I mean, that's the way he works. And it's just unique and special. And you know, that's the thing that you take away is that he genuinely values people and their opinions and wants to learn from everybody. That's really, that's really I mean, it takes a humility to do that too, write like it takes like I, you know, maybe I have more experiences to this guy, but that one nugget might help me, that one thing that he saw that I didn't see. Like maybe the kid has a long way to go, but he still has something to offer. Yeah, I mean, in coaches at all the time, he said, we're nothing more for the than teachers. That's all we are. We're teachers. And and you know, a good teacher always understands that he can learn something from everybody. But it's not fake, it's not um something that it just sounds good, or oh you know, what do you think about this? Okay, great, and then as soon as the kid leaves, it's like okay, whatever. No, Like he really values people's opinions. And again, I think that that helped me a lot, because when I first started working for him, I was certainly intimidated and I didn't want to. I was worried that my opinion was gonna be so um in contrast to hit that he would just you know, dismiss me in regards to well, I'm not gonna ask that again because you know, this kid clearly doesn't know what I'm talking about. No, it was like, I want to. I want to see what you what you know, I want to do it you're passionate about And he was the one that that, you know, as I was doing stuff for him in the fall with the coaching stuff and and doing stuff for him at the spring, he actually grabbed me in one day he said, you know, I've observed you, Brett, and he said, you know, when I asked you to do stuff in regards to breaking down coverages and scheme evaluations, you do a great job. Um, but you're not you know, you ask questions. But when I ask you to pull up some tape and what you think, You're asking me tons of questions and you're you're you're building upon those questions. He was like, you know, just by observing you, He's like, I think you really like this personnel stuff more. And he was like, so, I know most of my guys kind of graduate eventually to quality control, which but you know, I think I think you should think about personnel. Have you ever thought about it? And that was the first time I've ever thought about personnel. I was like, no, but you're right. Shoot, when we do get to the spring, I am, you know, a little bit more enthusiastic about player personnel. I am following up questions upon questions. Uh. And it just intrigued me more and I he actually is the one that kind of recommended, you know, we can do an un mentional route here. Instead of you graduating quality control coach, maybe we just take you to the person outside. So that was the first time I thought about ever working that's you know that was gonna be. My second question was was like when the light went on because I assumed it I assumed it did at some point. Do you remember when that was and how much thought had to go into it, because that's like you know you like you said, son of a coach, Like to that point, you probably pretty much worked exclusively with coaches, right, and so in a way you're so pull pulling up stakes and moving to a different side of the building. Um, you know, what do you think it was that? Uh, like, whether it was the the the hunt for the Division two kid that that that that you think like should have a shot, whatever it was, what was it that you think attracted to the player personnel? And um, and when did you actually like how did like the whole process of graduating to that next job happened. I think it was just you know, the love for college football, and I think it was just the love for project being you know, seeing guys on tape and and really um envisioning what they would be at pro as a pro. So when coach had me do a lot of this pool tape to watch this guy or I want you to do this or do that, it just got it got fascinating to me. How all these guys have statistics and all these guys have high weight and speed. Okay, so what do they all mean and how's it all work together and you know this guy is well known. Um. But when you when you just work through hours and hours of tape at a you know, a certain position, you know, finding guys that you know, maybe their stats weren't is good and maybe they played at a lower level, but just matching athletic traits and and trying to uncover guys that athletically are more visually impressive even though they don't have stats or if they don't have, um, you know, the accolades of other players. I thought that whole process of uncovering players that just maybe they didn't have a good quarterback if you're white out right, maybe they were in a in a um you know not maybe they were in a small conference or small school, or didn't have a scheme that really highlighted their abilities. I think it was just the process to just find the traits that are just really eye popping on tape and not reading into just numbers and stats. Uh. I you know that certainly fascinated me. And then when coach had mentioned to me that, man, you really like this personnel stuff, well, I was always blessed. I think my entire life of always been surrounded by by great people and you know, I was at a high school that won a bunch of state titles. I go to Delaware and with Tubby Raymond and Matt Naggy, great people. Then I'm with Kirk Sharaka. Then I'm working with James Irban. Now I'm here with with coach. But even at the time, even though I wasn't doing personnel, as coaches assistant, you're always around the personnel because the offices are basically connected. So I was always talking football with those guys. So when I start first start working with the Eagles, I mean Tom Heckert was there, Um, you know, Matt Russell, Jason Light, John spy Tech, Howard Roseman, Ryan Grigson. I mean the entire personnel department. We're basically future GM. So when coach had mentioned to me that, you know, if that's an area you want to go, um, we we can make it happen. Because I think Tom Heckard had just taken to Cleveland Brown's job, so Tom had taken some of his guys with them. You know, Matt went on, Jason went on, um uh trying to think. I think spy Tech went on with Jason, and Matt was in Denver and um Um went to I think spy Tech went with Decker to Cleveland, so there was some opening. So it kind of worked out whereas coach kind of uh saw that passion I had personnel, you know, it kind of lined up with Tom going to Cleveland, taken some people with them, some entry level scouting positions open, so I got to smoothly transition as Howry Roseman took over, I got to smoothly transition into an office scout and then work my way up from the area scouts. Um. So it was really just lining up the timing where um, I got a chance to demonstrate my love and passion for scouting. Coach noticed it. Tom Hecker went to Cleveland, there was naturally some opening openings within the building and I was able to kind of slide in there and work on my you know, new line, which would be the personnel side. What was your what what was your area when you did become an area scout? That was your last job in Philly? Right? Yeah? So I started out as basically UM an office scout, and then I had a chance, and you talked about all these great people I had to work with. Then I had a chance as an office scout, you know, updating the pro boards and watching you know, pro players in the fall, some practice players before the college season. But being in the office then I had a chance. You know, Lewis Riddick was there at the time, and and I would spend hours in Lewis's office, I mean just talking about pro Lewis taught me a lot about the pro side of things. And UM, so my first position with the Eagles was basically I was I was in office scout and updated boards, and I watched practice squad guys and I updated practice squad rosters in the in the fall and then helped them with with lower level colleges in the spring. UM. But that was a great chance for me to learn a lot about the pro side. And and I would update the boards in in the fall, and I would work on practice squad guys, and I would go right in the Lewis Ridicks office, and you know, we would talk about, you know, how to uncover practice squad poach players and and how to build a roster. We would exchange ideas and I learned a lot from him. And then UM and then in the in the spring, I got a chance to do uh a lot with with UM, you know, Ryan Grigson and and he would send me out to pro days and some smaller pro days to just build my college foundation. And shortly after that, I I UM, I was able to kind of graduate from that job and and and cover the Midwest for the Eagles. UM. That was probably my first area job, was I go from coaches Assistant office, uh office assistant in the personnel to Midwest scout. Did that for a few years, and fortunately, you know Howie and and and Ryan Grigson and Lewis Ride, they had enough faith in me where they put me down south to cover the SEC. So then I ended up doing that UM for a few years. And then after that kind of fay after that phase, I believe that's when Coach transitioned to Kansas City. Because of my prior relationship with Coach and mentioned to me, Hey, listen, I'm taking this job in Kansas City, and I know that you know at listen, I spent a bunch of time with him. And then when I graduate over to the personnel side, Coach knew that UM, there was gonna be a new personnel department at the time, I you know, I don't know if he knew who he was gonna hire. Yet I certainly didn't, but UH coach mentioned to me, Hey, listen, you know, I think he got a bright future in this personnel stuff, and um, I'm gonna take this job in Kansas City. I don't know who the GM is, but I'm gonna rep ment the GM that you know, you would be a good position. Um, you would be a good hire at whatever position that he thinks. And that's kind of how I got my introduction to Kansas City. Well, all right, so I do want to get to that part. But then the really really quick the one thing I wanted to ask I have asked this of other guys. When you're an area sca, is there a one font guy you found as an area scout that you're proud of, Like, whether it was in the Midwest or in the South, is there one that you can point to that was sort of maybe the guy that other people would point to is Yeah, Brett found that guy. Yeah, you know, I you know, I think were we all, um, you know, we all have those stories. I think in my position now, I'm a little bit more calculated because I realized there's so much work and effort that goes in you know from an organization. I you know, I do remember, um, I do remember that when I had a chance to go back. You know the way this the way scouting work because everyone has an area, but then a lot of times gms will give you positions to cross check, so you'll spend the entire fall on in an area and and you'll ride up all those areas, and then gms like to have a area scout cross check the position so they get to be familiar with other players throughout the country and then compare them to the players that they have seen. So, um, I do remember that. Uh you know, and and and coaching vouch for me. Uh you know Leshan mccoye season. You know, I just thought that, you know, maybe I was bought just because I'm from the Harrisburg area. Probably and and Leshan went to Bisho mcdevit and we had played them in high school. But I just thought that that he was by far the best running back in the draft. And you know, I I think I think no, Sean Maina was the first running back taking but I uh, I was an an outsider and the fact that I just thought that Leshan McCoy was just dynamic. I thought he just his visions instincts were just how could this guy not be a first round pick? And and I remember him slide in the second round, and I'm like looking at coach like, oh my god, we gotta get this guy. But you know, there's you know, every scout has those stories. Unfortunately, we probably have a lot of bad ones too that we like to forget. We always remember the good ones, right, We're never the goodies. We're always yea this this was my guy guy and that was my guy. But you know all those guys that you missed on, we we we forget those real quick. So we look real smart and everybody thinks that we have all the answers, But that's that's not the case. I can attest to. You know, certainly, there's a lot of ones I'd like to forget. I wish I could go back in time and delete my early reports on what I thought of some guys that didn't pan out. But I'll certainly tell you that Lashan McCoy and you know Mahomes, yeah, I was right there, But I don't want you ever see the bad ones I had, right yeah, So uh alright, So like like what you look forward to Kansas City. Then, um, you know, obviously Chip gets to Philly, Like, was that a tough call? Like did you have the opportunity to stay in Philly and if you did? Or was it just a no brainer? Because I I look at your initial title Kansas, but I believe it was pro and college personality analyst a little vague, right, like, So was it a no brainer or was that a tough call at all? Um? It was a no brainer for me just because of of, you know, my loyalty to coach Read. I mean when he when he took the job in Kansas City, and you know, he called and said to me, I don't know who's gonna be in the GM or or you know how this is gonna play out, but you know, I do think that you have a bright future, and I'm gonna recommend to the GM we hire that you would be a great higher I thok. I took that at the compliment and at that point, I mean, Coach Read could have taken the job in Alaska and I would have went there just because I had so much, um obviously belief in him, but again so much respect for him that I thought it was you know, the ultimate honor and to call me and say that you know that you know? And I time that pass. So I wasn't his assistant anymore, and I was just working with the personelside. But for him to to, you know, remember the work I did for him, and remember remember the relationship we had. For him to call and say that I'm gonna recommend if you'd be interested, let me know. I you know, certainly, I'm from the East Coast. I uh. I went to Delaware, forty five minutes away from Philadelphia. UM. But even though I went, I was from p A worked for the Eagles from the East Coast. Family from the East Coast, I just knew, you know, was that you know, I think all good scouts have that good instinct, but it was the same same thing here. I had that instinct that I am going wherever coach. If coach asked me, I'm gone. And I remember telling that to my family. I said, what's gonna happen with coach? And I said, well, think it's a job. He's gonna be highly coveted. Well you think, you know you have a chance to work with him? I said, I have no idea. But if he called me, I'm there, and he did. And um, it wasn't until later until John Dorsty got the job that I got that called. But I had already made up my mind that if John Dorsey wanted to be on the staff, I was going. And then you talk about just again continually being surrounded by great people. You know, I'm in Philadelphia and I'm working with Hecker and and Russell and Light and Roseman and and Lewis Riddick. And now I go to I go to Kansas City and I get to work with John Dorsey and Chris ballor I mean, I just I've just gotten extremely lucky. And so now I get to Kansas City. And the best thing about Kansas City was you talk about that title being being vague, right, pro called analysts. But the cool thing about working with John and Chris was they let me just it was almost like, uh, you know, an artist getting a blank Kansas. John and Chris treated me like, hey, I want to see what you know. You you do as little as much as you want it. Proer college, I mean, basically, sky's the limit with what you want to do. You know, coach says you're good. Let's say. So I got to sit and and you know, watch tape and and now you know, you build a resume. We feel confident in talking football and building rosters. And and John and Chris were the type that again like Andy were they weren't you know, they weren't wired as as too. Well all right, that's great, but here's what we're gonna do. Let me know what you think and you know, let me let me see how you know, let me see your ideas and concepts of building a roster. So we would get to the you know, the pro side of things, and you know, we would talk about you know, now I had a foundation of of you know, where we can get value and and you know, poaching players and and claiming players at the deadline and and um, certainly these guys had a ton of knowledge and I learned so much for them. But I was in an environment where I was able to speak up. And you know, some of my ideas probably weren't great, but a few other ideas, you know, made it to the table. And when we end up getting those guys, but they allowed me to be myself and they allowed me to to um, to dive into every aspect of the pro side. And then on the college side, you know, I would get together with John and Chris and you know, we would just lay out a landscape of schools and I'd be able to go all over the country. Now, So I went from you know, the Midwest in Philly to the southeast and Philly having a foundation in in office pro personnel, to go into Kansas City being involved in all the workouts, being involved in all the acquisitional phases of the pro side in the fall, and then kind of bouncing around the country um also in the fall to to look at some college prospects. But John and Chris Bolk allowed me to really take my game to the next level. So I think I was a you know, a good scout that was had a good foundation in Philadelphia, um, working with those people I mentioned, and then when I got to Kansas City, John and Chris just took my cur to a new level because they just let me get creative and really just allowed me to to grow at a rapid speed. You know. It's so interesting about that too, Brett is like, you know, obviously John worked all those years under Ron Wolf, and I remember asking because because obviously ron Wolves tree, a lot of guys came out of that tree and have been successful. Um, you know, we've seen the name is John Schneider, you know, Scott Mccleohen, Reggie McKenzie, Um, you know, and John's on that list too. And I remember asking those guys like, well, how comes so many people have come out of that tree? And it sounds like their answer is just like your answer, which their answer almost uniformly was he let us see everything. He wasn't secretive, and I know it's not that way everywhere, but it was like he led us behind the curtain. So even if you're a young scout you don't have a ton of responsibility, you get to see what the people who do have the responsibility you are doing. And I'm guessing that that probably had a huge impact on like just accelerating maybe your development as a young scout. Um. You know, John always says, you know John and and really was the first personnel guy to explain to me there's no such thing as pro and college scounts and you're gonna have titles. But the reality of it is, Brett, you have to know everything. You gotta know pro. You got no college. Look those those pro guys that you're giving big contracts too. There's a foundation those guys, those guys coming out, UM, you know, you know those guys, you gotta cross train. You know, you can't just sit in the pro office all year and not watch college. You can't be on the road all year and not be updated with with pro um. You know, John was a big advocate of cross training and making sure pro people get enough college exposure and making sure those college guys get get enough pro exposure. And so when you talk about that title pro and college analysts, I mean, and then knowing that you're working with John and and Chris Ballard, uh, they let you you know, it's it's like cross training on steroids, because I mean, you're really in every aspect. Like I said, you know, you're you're watching pro tape throughout the week. You're helping, um, you know, formulate a list. If you have a guy that's injured, you're formulating list. You're working those guys out, You're scanned through practice squad. As soon as you have a guy get hurt or injured, you know you're you're able to just walk in John's office or walking Chris's office and said, hey we need to poach this guy, Hey we need to work this guy out. And those guys, and those guys you know, we're wired like coach read. They weren't like yeah, yeah, yeah, they were like, all right, let's go watch him. Hey, hey, Chris, you know each wants to watch this guy. Let's go. I mean, that's how that's how it worked. It was fascinating because it was so much openness and trust. It was. It was as simple as hey, Chris, I want to watch this guy. I think we should add this guy, or or Chris coming down. Hey, beach, John and I are gonna watch this guy. We're gonna add him. Why don't you watch him with us? All right? That's unique. You don't get that a lot of places where some guys just want to do it all by the some guys only have another person maybe do that, do that with I mean, I get a call from John and he would say, Hey, we're gonna watch tape here. I think we're gonna sign this guy. You want to watch him with us? And Chris would do the same way. But that openness you talk about that, Hey, we're all working to get the other hair, and you know, if you're willing to come in here and work, um, we don't. There's no such thing as you just do pro, you just do callllege. No, we're just we're Our profession is just finding football players at every level. And so it was a really a broad concept of we get here and we're watching football players. Were not specific into college or analytics or pro. No, we're doing everything. We're doing everything, and we're gonna collaborate on everything. And the more we collaborate, the more we trust, the less errors and the less mistakes will make. How Like, so you work, you're you're working ways way up. I know you got promoted there after two years, um into a director role. Um, what do you like, what sort of impact? Like if you take both of them, because obviously both John and Chris have track records, Like, what do you think one thing you took from each guy was? Um? I think with with John it was um. Just I think it's funny because I think that I'm kind of a maybe a little bit of a hybrid rid of both of those. Where John is old school, I mean he is tape tape tape tape tape, watching all the tape. Just close the door in the draft room. Uh, you know, prior to come into Kansas City working with the Eagles, we had scouting in the fall, and we had basically um we had three meetings were more of an overview and intellectual debate over guys. When I got to Kansas City, it was my introduction to the seventeen days with your scouts prior to the combine. So now, of us, did I come from Philly where it's tape work in the in the fall, overview meetings, character meetings, and just broad thinking in regards to your spree meetings. I come to Kansas City and scouting in the fall, and then all of a sudden, the season ends, and every single scout, college and pro is locked in a room and you start watching tape at five am, and you're watching tape until you know, six seven o'clock at night. For seventeen straight days. It's like training camp for scouts. And and but John was wired in the old school, like we're just gonna exhaust tate. We're gonna exhaust tape on every level, and we're gonna stick to some some certain principles in regards to you know, we're not watching five nine corners or five eight corners. No, this is a big man's game. Uh, this size win size matters tape. Uh, and we're gonna exhaust tape and just you know, make our decisions space primarily on tape. Chris was wired the same way in regards tape. Chris had a little bit more of an analytic when we're Chris wanted to bring some more skers in UM and talk about now analytics could play a role in this, and you know, discussed you know, a scores or athletics scores, and uh, Chris was involved in a little bit more of a new age of football where you know, listen, we're gonna watch hey, but you know, let's let's go back and let's review some of these guys that maybe their tape wasn't great, but these scores suggests they're gonna be really good. So both guys were extremely hard workers and UM, both guys. You know, I learned a ton from but uh, you know, John was was a firm believer in you know, if I don't see it on tape, I you know, I'm really not gonna gonna be there. Or Chris was a little bit open minded to UM to bring it in guys from an analytics standpoint. UM, But it was it was cool because you know, both guys you know, just had a love and passion for the game, and I surrondingly had and I got to see how they worked. And and again, John Um, the amount of meeting time and the amount of time spending the room watching tape was something that I was just a natural connection with because that's what I love to do. And being in this environment where I got to I love those sixteen day meetings. I love seeing you know, I'm hearing a lot about this guy. And even though I haven't been in the school and I haven't seen him on tape, now I get to see him on tape. And now it's not just me standing in the report comparing my guy to a cross check guy. Now it's it's me talking out loud about this. So it's not like we're not having discussions through our reports and through online you know, written written debates. It's we're gonna go in there and and look, you know, another cool aspect of these meetings were I mean, you know, just like you're like a family. So I mean there are times where it gets a little personal. I mean there's five there's you know, there's some arguments in there. Um, but you get to stand up and and and really you get to put all on the table. And John was like that. John's like, all right, you know you like this guy. You didn't go in there, but you think he's this or you think he's that. Well, you know you're gonna have to stand up in front of the group and make your case. It's not gonna you're not sending me a report and tell me what you think of this guy. You're gonna tell the whole You're gonna tell the whole room. So there's that accountability where there's you know, there's an accountability to what you feel and what you believe in front of the whole staff and the cool aspect of that. And the reason why um my model is very similar is I've always said that when you have a draft, it's easy to say the organization was on board, our player personnel, staff was on board. But if you don't to have those meetings and if you don't air out all of your thoughts in front of everybody, you don't really have that. And then what what creeps in is well, I didn't really like this guy. Who does someone else in the building liked them. I'm not sure who it was. It's like that secrecy if you're gonna be successful, you've got to be open and everyone has to know where you feel. So that's the best part about John and Chris were you know, they have this this format and John brought it from Green Bay where we're gonna sit, we're gonna watch sixteen games and if you have an opinion on a player that maybe the room doesn't. So maybe the room, maybe the three or four guys that scouted this player think he's a fifth round pick. But you had a chance because we allow you to do whatever you want. You think he's a second round pick, Well, you're not gonna just tell me on the side, why do you think he's a Secon round pick. No, you're gonna tell the scouts in the room while you think he's a Secon round pick, and you're gonna go up there and make your case, and you're gonna do it in front of everybody, And a lot of times we have the ability to do that and and potentially change the room's outlook on a guy, or a lot of times you just gotta put your place and you got shamed out of the room, right, So it was it was it was cooled. You you know, you how to be buttoned up in those meetings. You couldn't go in those meetings and not know your stuff. You had to know your stuff where you would get embarrassed and and so it's a good count. It's almost like a good kind of pressure then, like right like that, like you knew like that you're gonna called out if you gotta, if you if you were wrong, Yeah, if you submit, if you submitted any like if you went into a school. Obviously, if you're an areus gout that's your job. But if if you if you cross check the guy, or if you just watch the guy on tape, if you submitted anything into the computer, you were getting called on. So you you can't just throw in a report on it. And you know a lot of times you know you'll watch, you know, you do your area and you have thoughts on a guy, Well, if you don't put it in writing, and if you don't have it in the system, you don't have a voice now because if it's not if you're not accountable for it, if it's not in the system, I don't want to hear from yet. So you can't just say I want to look at a certain receiver, Like if you're a Midwest accout, and you know, you did all the receivers in the Midwest, and then you went to an All Star game and you thought that receiver at an All Star game was really good. Well, go back and watch the tape and write it up, because if you don't go back and watch the tape and write it up, you're not gonna have a voice in the room. If you want to do them, that's fine, do them, do some research, put it in, put it in the report. But if you don't put the report and you're not getting called if you do put the report in, you better have done the tape work because you're gonna get get called upon, and we're gonna know what games what you saw that we didn't see. So if you're putting report in, you have a second round grade on a guy and there are three or four guys that have fifth round grades on a guy that went in there. But you better have a strong case and you better be buttoned up or you know, you'll get embarrassed. But I loved it, and I thought it was great, and I thought it was you know, I thought two things that it heightened your accountability at all levels, but it also worked developed the true concept of the room was all on board, right, That's how you get the room on board. Now, it doesn't mean everyone is gonna see players this way, but everyone's gonna have an understanding of why we select this player because we will have discussed in front of everyone for weeks. Okay, So you work, you work, you work, and you've made it now to the point where you know you're showing up on some watch lists and everything else. Um, and you get your shot in the most unconventional way. How how hard was it to see what happened with John in two thousand and seventeen and simultaneously maybe kind of know in the back of your head that the opportunity might be coming. I mean, I'm assuming that that was probably at least somewhat difficult. Yeah, for sure, because again I learned so much UM from John, And you know, backing up, it was it was exciting to see, you know, Chris get this up opportunity in Indianapolis, because you know, he was a guy that I highly respected, UM. And then transitioning into that a spring and in summer, UM, you know, it was tough because you know, I learned a lot from him. He taught me a lot. Uh, we had a really good relationship. Um, but then things kind of happened so quickly, as you mentioned, you know, it was an unconventional time. And then it almost was like one of those positions that you know, it was difficult because you know, you had a relationship with John, but at the same time, you know, within a short amount of time, you know you're you're having to interview, when you're having to put your thoughts together. So and then the timing of it, it was so late in the summer where it was almost like you had didn't even have time to really process everything going on because it was basically the organizations going in this direction. You have the chance to make your case onto why you think you know you could conte one, uh the path that we're we're going, and you know I got named g M. I realized that I gotta put a whole count condar together at my count or within weeks of training camp. So I think everything happened so so quick and so fast. Um, I don't know if I had a time to really grasp everything going on other than you know, I just gotta put together and now listen to the advantage that I had. I didn't interview for a different organization with a different staff. Uh. These are the guys that I've worked with since. So even though I had adjustin, things happened very fast. It happened with a group that I had gotten to work with since two thousand and thirteen every single day. Uh, they knew me, They trusted me them, and I trusted them. I mean, really, if you go back, I mean, there are some subtle changes here and there, but really the staff is is primarily the same. I brought a few new guys in, but um, but that just goes for the It just shows the respect I had the guys I worked with all those years. Um, and you guys really helped me with my transition because they knew that we were behind the ball before we start that seventeen season. But there was five six years of working together in that trust that we were able to hit the ground running as best we can do. You think the scouting of Pat had an impact any landing the job? Um? And I just wondered, because the timing is interesting, you know, right, like, you guys draft Pat and you become the GM a couple of months after that. Did you ever get any feedback from anybody, whether it's Clark or you know, Donovan or um, you know, or or Andy, Like do do you do you think that that had any impact on you getting the job? Well, I I think anytime you attached Pat Mahomes, it never hurts, right, So I think, uh, just being his name, you know, I think you know it, you know, it can't hurt now, you know, certainly, Listen, I was in a position where, um, you know, we were in the quarterback mark and you know I was able to you know, um uh you know, go out there and seepating homes play. And I was certainly able to because of my relationship with John and because of my relationship with Andy, and because they trusted me, I was able to go in there, you know, all throughout the fall and you know, tell John and tell Andy, hey, you know, you gotta watch this game, you gotta watch this throw. And I would be texting these guys, guys, you know, videos throughout the fall. Um and um, I certainly were those guys out with Pat my homes. But you know, you know, I think that once we make the trade, then obviously the owner realizes all that went into this and and you know, so the fact that I was able to, you know, talk to John and talk to Andy all the time about Pat and and the fact that you know we're able to you know, really study the landscape of of the trade and understand that. You know, I think it as Clark works through the interview process and and you know, I think knowing that acquiring and ending a franchise quarterback is you know, a tough task for for a GM, and I think it the confidence to Clark knowing that, you know, I was so highly involved in that, and and you know, that was probably a great example of uh, you know potentially that you know this, you know, that exercise in and of itself, um, you know, identifying and then and then figuring out and aiding in a way to get up there and get this guy is is probably a really good example to give Clark confidence that I would be a guy. So I would certainly say it helped. I think it gave Clark some real time example of you know, the creativity and the passion that you know this kid will have. You know, you're gonna he's gonna put it all. You know, again, you go back to accountability, like if you're gonna scout a guy like Pat Mahomes. And you know, if a lot of people think he's a system quarterback in the second round and you think he's a franchise player. Again, it goes back to the draft room and accountability, right, so you're on the record for the whole whole crew. So once you're able to go there and and make the move and you know, show that, you know, you'll you'll put it on the table if you believe in somebody. I think it certainly gave Clark a lot of confidence moving forward. Now. The only thing I didn't have working in my favorite the time where Pat Holmes didn't play a game at the time. So, uh, you know, I think Clark Clark certainly loved you know, I think the example certainly gave Clark confident that you know, you know, going through that process, here's a real life example of of you know what this kid can do. So, um, you know, I think that exercise helped. Uh, you know, the fact that Pat didn't take a snap yet, I think Clark probably wanted to see a lot more and you know, I think over a three year period, you know, fortunately me and my staff were able to show him and show coach that, you know, we're capable a lot more too, so that that was a good thing. Did anybody tell you what, like did any of those guys ever tell you how you won the interview? Like was there anything that you did in the interview? And I think this would be good for like a young scout to hear, like, was there anything that, like any of those guys said to you like that right there is how you won the job. Well, I think you know my ability to kind of um demonstrate to them long term thinking and fluidity. I think in this game and this profession, um, you always have to be thinking thinking to three years down the line, even for four years down the line. Um, how you get creative with your cap how you prepare for you know, to put a roster together in the short term and the impacts of the long term since your your you know, your broad term thinking on on players and and I certainly think that you know, there's a cultural aspect to that is important for owners and the head coaches um uh to buy into because the game is competitive and you know you have to you have to fill your rosters with talent one from fifty three, but you also have to be wired a certain way, and you know, guys have to work together. There's are a lot of teams that are talented, they just don't have this success off the field, and that's because they have a cultural problem in their locker room. And I think spending a lot of time on on just uh, you know, future planning, how how you build and develop your roster, and just really hitting on the cultural aspect and and UM, I think working with coach and understanding, um, what he likes in regards to culture and players. Everybody likes talented players, but you know how those players have to be wired a certain way to handle a coach reekcamp and to handle the way he does things. I think that um, all those things combined were something that probably gave Clark and Andy a lot of confidence moving forward forward. Yeah, Like that's interesting because you always hear like, I don't know, I've always I always felt like the best GMS are the ones who were saying like, I'm not just drafting players, I'm drafting players from my coaches, and that they have to be able to work together, and if they can't work together, if they don't, aren't a fit and that doesn't mean anything. So that's it's interesting to bring that up. A couple of last things. I want to get to let you go. Um, and I feel like we would go for three hours of the stuff front. But um, you know, one of the things that I thought, one of the things I always think is interesting with players as unique as Pat is it certain people have vision for them. Um, and I do remember, you know, it's it's easy to forget this now, as great as he's been the last three years that there was a lot of split opinion on him, and some people thought like, well, this isn't really an NFL player. He's so unconventional. If you look back at like just kind of the way that you were taught and the way you came up in the business, what do you think allowed Because everybody's heard the story by now of how you sort of found Pat and you kept texting Andy the clips of Pat. You mentioned that before. Um, what do you think allowed you to see Pat maybe a little differently than another scout would? Well? I think the sometimes it's it's it's just a basic for me, a basic litmus test. Uh. You know when you watch a player. Uh. I always joking my guys, you know, I have like this excital meter, you know, in my mind like when you watch a player, you have to watch a player, you have to watch man team, and you know you're gonna watch as much tape as you can. But if you're watching alignment, a receiver, a linebacker, you know you're gonna watch your your standards four or five games and then hopefully you get to go back and watch later games. When you're doing a guy on the fall, but there's an element of when you're watching a player, uh, looking back on your on your notes and just you know the impact the player left. And when you get a special player, he's one of those guys that you start the tape and then when you look up, you don't even realize that four or five hours have passed and you watched every single game because you're not even thinking of this as an assignment. It's just something that is just a fascinating experience. So when you're watching Pat Mahomes and I actually remember in the spring, uh, they had a lineman there. You know, Pat was a jr. He was on some list and I'm actually going through a spring list and watching some offensive linement of Texas tech. Um. That's the guy that you know at the time had some numbers, but he wasn't a guy that at that time, the spring before his junior season, he wasn't a guy that is coming out of the first round pick. You know, watch this guy. He was a guy that put up some stats. And watching this offensive lineman. I remember starting with the LSU game and seeing this quarterback, I was like, who is this guy? And I'm like, this is ridiculous. This guy's making throws and this team is completely undermatched and he is just putting on a show and this team should be getting blown out, but this kid is just all over the place. And then you're looking up as well, how policy and you know where is he from and what's the story and he's gonna come out, and just getting completely infatuated by the guy. But I think he's one of those guys that you watch and you know, you see he has a unique and uncanny ability, you know, to make people around him better. And that's obviously uh standard line that people use, well, he makes people around him better. But this was like visual evidence that was so eye popping. Here you are, you're watching Texas Tech. They're playing an LSU team that has a bunch of first round picks that year on both sides of the football, and he single handedly is unstoppable. Um, so you want to talk about making people around him better and making things happen when things shouldn't happen. And then your mind starts to think, what if you put him with coach Read and what if he was able to understand the West Coast offense? And what if you put a ton of talent around this guy. If this guy can line up UM against L s U and have first round defensive alignment breathing down his neck, have first round corners covering his white house at first round safety is you know, playing the deep out for the field and he is able to just on his own, uh, move the ball up and down the field and make something out of nothing. What if you put him with coach Read and what if he had better receivers than the other team, and what if he had an offensive linement offensive lineman that can protect him? This guy could be the limit for this guy because this guy is is like nothing we've seen him before. And that's kind of how it starts. And then you know, when when the organization you know, feels the same way after a certain time, you know, you started thinking, wow, I mean you know, this could be this could be special, and I you know, that was probably my first thought too. I think my first Freezing signing was Sammy Watkins because I knew he had Tyreek Hill. And you go back to that original thought process of when you're watching Pat in the spring, you're envisioning this this going around. So you know, I think if you look at certainly how excited I was I the first time I got you. It's not a revision I signed Sammy Watkins. I'm like, I'm putting receiving. We're putting receivers in this guy. This is gonna be fun. And then who would have envisioned five thousand yards later? But I mean that that I was adding. But but look, you have a lot of you have a lot of ability to be creative when you have you know, whe are like Clark Hunt. And then you have an Hall of Fame head coach. I mean when you're as an evaluator, you know, you get you know that when you have a vision for a guy that unless you miss on his work ethic, or unless you just miss on the talent, that vision will become reality because you have a Hall of Fame coach working with him. So you know, Okay, listen, this guy is special on tape. So if if this kid is wired the right way, and if he's smart and field's football, these things that you're seeing on like this is gonna happen because he's working with Andy Reid, and Andy will get out of it and we're gonna surround this guy with talent. So I think that's the full exciting process, is you know that if this if the if the if the talent you see on tape, if the character matches that talent, if you know, you feel real confident about the outcome because of the people, in particular the coaches and the culture you're gonna surround him in. It almost like allows you to like keep the important things the important things because you don't have to worry about things like like he's gonna be properly developed, he's gonna be in the right environment. Like so that almost like allows you to eliminate a lot of the other stuff and maybe focus on the fact that like four or five hours melted away and you didn't even notice that watching the kid. And that's really important, right, like, because there's a there was a lot to look at there. You're you're really able to construct a roster, a roster with you know, with the concern of what many teams would deem as a risk. Well, he's an air raide guy, and you know, his footwork, you know, a lot of stuff with Pat was air raide and his footwork is just he makes all these off platform throws and his mechanics are way off and he just he's just out there slinging it like a baseball and um, you know this isn't gonna work. Well, guess what We've got Andy Reid, and you know he's gonna get the foot work right and he's gonna you know, you know, with Pat coming out, some of the things what Pat was um air raid system, terrible footwork and decision making. Where Pat was just a gun slinger. And if there was a guy that he thought he could hit fifty years down the field, he's taken that as opposed to a five yard checkdown or uh, you know, you know, a backside slant like he's not taking that even as the guy's wide open. Pat's shutting it down the field. So you're thinking about okay, So if you're if we really look at the big picture here and if it's okay, so he he basically he gambles a lot in the field, down the field and the footwork, and then you know, basically a president of a system that doesn't really translate well in the NFL. We'll take out the system because you know, that's where Pat went to school. Wasn't like Pat was a five star recruit and had his choice of where he was gonna go. So he's there, right, And certainly a lot of credit goes at Cliff Kingsbury for identifying that talent. But Pat's take out the system. Well, I already know who coach is going to clean up the footwork and coaches is gonna gonna explain situational football the path better than anybody. I mean, coach is gonna you know, be able to articulate and to explain how we live to see another down and how we play situational football. Um, but you're not gonna find a guy that can do all the other stuff. You can't find the arm, you can't find the out live ability, you can't find the instincts. So really, all the things that are impossible to find as a package he had and the things that he lacked, the mechanics and decision making I mean that's right down koj Ree's alley. I mean he's gonna get that hammered out rather quickly. And um, you know, I think that's what you see. You see the development of um situational football with Pat and the understanding of you know, it's okay, it's okay to check it down and to to live to see another down now. I also remember, too, when Pats of playing in Texas Tech, I mean they're playing in in shootouts. So I think Pott was playing with the mindset that I've got to I gotta keep scoring. These games are sixties, some in the fifties. Some I gotta I can't do a checkdown and we can't punt on fourth and one. I gotta keep up this pace. So I really think too, the the way he played the game, I think and and and the conference in which he played, I really think dictated and forced him to play that way. So some guys just play that way because they don't understand. I think Pat, even though he played that way, I think a lot of it was just due to the conference in which he played, and there wasn't a lot of defense, and he you know, there was a lot of pressure on him to score points right away, and um, you know he didn't know. You know, if you plant a ball in that league, you might not you know, team me go on a six seventy minute drive, and I think Pat is Why're like, hey, listen, man, I got a team's relying on me, and I'm gonna I'm gonna do this. Well, just surround him with a supporting cast and if you coach the situational football in him, all the other stuff people can't touch him on on a talent on a talent level, and now you get to build around him for the next twelve years, which is probably a pretty cool thing as a general manager. Um. So, a couple of last things, Brett then, um number one, if there's a young scout listening to this and he's just getting started, or a young coach getting into this for that matter, what's the best piece of advice you could give a guy going into maybe his first NFL like low level job, like the job that you did over those summers um at Lehigh. Well, Albert's a lot of things that we talked about. UM One, I would say, uh, attention to detail and really you know, perfecting the art of doing doing the small things with with a lot of pride and a lot of passion, um, you know, being grounded from stuff. I mean, listen, if you can take pride and stocking fridges, and if you can take pride in printing up playbooks and and um doing airport runs and and picking up McDonald's, I mean, if you take pride in that and understand that if you are a detailed minded person um, and if you're rooted in that foundation and um, that by the time you get tasked with more important things, you're never gonna you know, you're never gonna miss on, um uh, the details that go with those bigger assignments because you're grounded in in in in foundation that um in which you understand how important every aspect is. And then the things that I go back to what coach taught me, just valuing other people's opinions and being able to exchange ideas. And so if you're a young scout or if you're a young coach getting into this, certainly everybody wants to talk to coach read or talk to Eric the enemy about football. But you're gonna also learn things from another intern, or you're gonna learn other things from a an office scout or a quality control coach, exchanging ideas, being open with your ideas, being underunderstanding that other people have different viewpoints. Um. I think it is critical. Again, you never know where you're gonna pick up your next great idea or what's gonna spark your next great idea. Yeah, it may come from coach read, but it could come from the intern down the hall. And I think when you when you're open yourself up to paying attention to details, doing all the little things with a lot of pride and you know, valuing the people's opinions and having respect for those around you, whether they're the head coach or an intern, I think that's a great place to start, all right. The last thing, have you ever wondered what would have happened if you were able to work out your vacation time and that summer whatever it was, oh five? Um, and you did become what Kevin Stefanski became. Like, have you ever thought about, like if you were the guy that went with with Chili to to Minnesota, what would have happened? Well, that's a great, great question. I probably would have had an unsuccessful coaching career. So I'm guessing, Uh, this was my calling, and God had a plan and he put me in the right place at the right time, and and I'd like to think that God knew that I wasn't gonna be a great football coach. So you know what Brett said, this one out and Kevin will be Kevin will be a great football coach. So I'm gonna work it out where you know, you're not gonna have a vacation time building and he's gonna go on do great things. But uh, probably I would have been another rather or average run ball coach, I would guess, but certainly worked out for me and worked out for Kevin and worked out from that. So I think God has a plan and uh I'm able to just kind of fulfill that, I guess. So I guess now you're like, you look at it like you were cut out for scouting all along, Like if you look back at it now, you probablybe. You didn't know it then when you were trying to be a coach, but maybe there's something about you that you were you were you were cut out for that, for for the scouting side rather than the coaching side the whole time. Yeah, absolutely, I mean this was something that um, you know, I'm so passionate about and I can't imagine doing any or any other thing in my life. And I all along your right, all you know, kind of where I was supposed to be, what I was supposed to do, And I'm just extremely fortunate and that the people around me, um opened me up to that and made me aware of stuff I should have been aware of, you know, like I said, this was this was what I was supposed to be doing. And and I just have the good fortunes of people around me. Hey, letting me know, like coach reread like I think you should do the scouting and and um no, the fact that I had people around me spitting the obvious was was really fortunate for me. All right. He's Bret Beach, the general manager of the world champion Kansas City Chiefs. Hey, Brett, I, like I said, like we could go on for three or four hours here, wanta BI cognizant of your time. I really really appreciate you coming out, all right, but let's I appreciate the time you spent and for staying this up. I hope you and your family are are staying safe and staying insane, and hopefully I get to see this fall, and um at a football game this year and talk more about the proje